Latest / Petty and Unbothered / #21 - The King of Street Art
Transcript
- Tita Lors: Yay! Smile for the camera! We're gonna take this picture! Eventually. Let's get rid of that and go here. Hello! Hi! Robin Axline: Hi Tita Lors: Long time no see, I feel like. I know, it's only been a week. Less than a week. Less than a week. Robin Axline: well, yeah, less than a week. Wow. Tita Lors: I know. Okay, there we go. I finally got my screens right. Okay, I've already asked you how you are, but how are you? Robin Axline: I'm good, I'm good. Just about to finish off the week of Friday Eve of it all. It's yeah, same. mean, the week has gone by so quickly and also been so long. That's what we talking about before we got on air here. Tita Lors: Stop switching screens, okay? Okay. Good lord. This screen is just mind of its own right now. Yeah, I personally don't know what day of the week it is because my big has been sick all week, so she's been home. Me too. Robin Axline: Well now can you check? Tita Lors: I can't. Well, you if I would wear my watch more often, then it would tell me, but, I don't like the feel of stuff on my wrist. just... is weird. So I don't wear lot of bracelets. Like, the only thing that I wear is hair ties. Yeah, but like the, I don't know, watches are rough. Any whoosers, that's not the story time that I wanna get into. I wanna get into a story time with you before we get into this because, my lanta, I got learned on that day, got schooled that day on like pettiness. Yeah. Yeah, so I think it was Monday. It must have been Monday because she should have, my big should have been going to school, but we didn't take her. So first of all, this is a safe space, right? Like it's okay. I can vent and I can say all the horrible things that are in my head without being judged. I hope. I obviously don't like believe all the horrible things. It just sometimes feels so good to say them out loud. So over the weekend, my, my big, she developed a cough. my little has had the same similar cough and like runny nose, but she seemed fine. No fever, nothing, blah, blah, blah. So I'm like, okay, so big should be fine too. No false. Big has asthma. I forgot. She experiences things differently. Right. So Now I'm in the parking lot and trying to park my car and I'm trying to make like and you can by the way tell me if maybe I'm just wrong in this situation. I'll accept it, but I don't think I was. OK, so I'm going to park on the right hand side, so I veer a little left and make a wide turn because I've got like an SUV, not an SUV. What are they called crossovers or is it a full SUV? Robin Axline: I just had it. Tita Lors: mom car Robin Axline: It's a mom cart. It's what everybody's doing these days. Tita Lors: exactly exactly I've got a mom car so I make that wide I'm trying to make a wide turn I go left to make the Y turn and clear the other car and get into like the space on the right hand side. And as I'm doing that, the car on my right, this woman, no, on my left, sorry, she comes out, Y, or not Y, well, she just comes out, right? So now we're like face to face with each other. And I'm like, hello, I'm trying to turn into that spot. And I'm like pointing at the spot and she goes back up. Yes, exactly my freaking point. I'm all, biznatch. I was here first. I literally just need to park my car. All you have to do is back up. You shouldn't have been here in the first place. What the hell? Right? So I'm like, and I'm at this point, I'm so nice. And I'm just like, can you please, I just want to park right, literally right there. And she's like, shoulder shrug, go, hand motion. dismissing me and I'm all, okay, well, I haven't eaten yet. Let me get my lunch out, post my car up in park, break out my bagel sandwich. I'm so excited to eat and I just start eating and I'm getting heated. And listen, I had time. I thought I had time to be petty because my session wasn't for another like two hours. And she didn't need to take the medicine yet. She had another three hours to take the medicine that I was picking up. So I thought I had time. No, she had time. She also parked her car, pulled up her phone and like chilled, sat back in her seat and just started scrolling. And I see people like walking past, just kind of staring at us. And I'm like, is this who I want to be? Just questioning everything about myself. Am I really this person? Because apparently, no- you might think that you have time, but nobody in the world has more time than an elder Karen. Robin Axline: Mmm. Tita Lors: Where she going? What is she doing? She's retired? She got nothing to do? This is what she's got to do! Be petty and waste people's time. I'm like... Okay. Is this who I would want to model for my kids? If my kids were in the car, would I still be behaving in this way? And I'm like, no. Sweet, right? Okay, let me call the hubby. He's gonna talk me down. But you know Ryan, do you think he talked me down? Robin Axline: When you just when you said that I was like, really? Okay Tita Lors: That's a choice. Yeah, no, he's like, when's your next session? you got time. Lay on the horn. I know and I'm just like, no, I hate that. I hate people who do that. The horn is specifically for emergencies. If you are about to watch a dangerous thing happen, that's when you use the horn and you're trying to prevent a dangerous situation from happening. That's when you use the horn. You do not use the horn for pettiness. I hate loud noises that would annoy me more than it would annoy her. Right. So I'm just like, do I want to be this person? after a few deep breaths I'm like no I don't want to be this person but I do want to be annoying Robin Axline: Right, after you've invested this much, it's like, all right, I gotta Tita Lors: Exactly. You Robin Axline: do something. Tita Lors: know, right? So I start pulling up closer and closer to her car, doesn't face her, never looks up. And I start trying to turn into the space that I wanted to turn into. And I do it specifically so I'm like inches from her car the entire time. It's a good thing I'm a good driver. And I stop like right in front of her window and I'm like, really? Like, this, this is the hill you're gonna die on today. You can't, you're supposed, you're the older person. You're supposed to set the example. That's what I was told when I was a kid. Doesn't look at me, never nothing. And then as soon as like space clears, gone. Like, wow did I just get a lesson in pettiness. Like, first of all, if you want to be petty, you better have time. Robin Axline: Sure, yeah. Especially because y'all both had time. Tita Lors: Yes, not as much time as she had apparently. She was sat, I wonder how long she would have sat there. Yeah, but I... I could not have sat there without getting more and more angry. And I refuse to let her make me feel that way. So... I let it go, ultimately. But oh my god, I'm actually really, really mad and upset that I had to. It's like I wish I had more time. I would have turned my car off. Yeah, right? Like turn the car off. All I had to do was go pick up the meds. Robin Axline: Mm-hmm. Yeah, man, if you turned it off and then when the storm came back. Tita Lors: Yeah, it wouldn't have taken that long. It would have saved me money, honestly, because then I wouldn't have like walked around and bought stuff. So Robin Axline: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Tita Lors: I just done that. But yeah. Robin Axline: Yeah, but then would you trust her with your car? mean, I'm sure, who knows. Tita Lors: Yeah, obviously not. She'd probably call somebody to tow my car away or whatever. Robin Axline: I guess what like the first part of it where she's like telling you what to do is insane to me. I that's what would really Tita Lors: Yes! Yeah, right? So like, okay. honest question, who actually has the right of way in that situation? The person who's like already going to park or the person who's pulling out of a parking spot? Because I know that if I were if while she's backing out and I'm pulling forward, if I were to have rear ended her, I'm pretty sure that would be mostly my fault. Because usually if you rear end someone, you're mostly at fault. But She was obviously not backing out. She was pulling forward because she backed into her spot. So she was pulling forward. So we were both face to face with each other. Who was legally speaking here, people? What's the rule? Robin Axline: Yeah, let's consult our legal listeners here and chime in, please. Tita Lors: Exactly! Like the people who... I'm in Virginia. You know, what's the rules here? Because I don't know that that would have flown in California. Robin Axline: Yeah. Yeah, I don't think so. Yeah, I mean, I personally have Tita Lors: Right? Like, I... Robin Axline: had awful like Trader Joe's parking lot experiences back in California. I mean, really horrible. Tita Lors: Yeah, I would have backed out. I would have been like, my god, I didn't see you. I'm so sorry. Let me just back up. Like, are you trying to park right there? Cool. Like, one second. But the dismissal. Go. Robin Axline: Yeah, no big deal. Tita Lors: you Robin Axline: I feel like because you were there first it should be you but Tita Lors: Right? Right? Like, cause if I'm just driving forward and you're pulling out, bitch, you're going to hit me. So I'm trying really hard not to cuss, but like I was so pissed. So heated. I'm heated now, Robin Axline: That was a really good petty story, though. Yeah. Tita Lors: Thank you. know afterwards I was like, listen, whatever. It's fine. I'm getting a good story out of this. You're an a-hole, but at least in my book, I think you're an a-hole. Maybe I'm wrong again. Tell me if I'm wrong. So, a good, fun little petty story where we were both petty, but she had way more time to be even more petty. Go her. I hope she's proud of herself. Robin Axline: Yeah, I hope she just had a wonderful day. Tita Lors: I know. Bless her soul. I know. I hope everything went well for her. Butthead. She obviously needed it. Clearly needed Robin Axline: Yeah, it probably just made her day. Tita Lors: something to go right in her day. I know. I'm so nice. Robin Axline: Yeah, you spend a little bit of time with her. What a wonderful thing to do. Tita Lors: Exactly, I'm so kind. Exactly, I even tried to make eye contact with her. And really connect with her. Robin Axline: you Tita Lors: And I live in Virginia, so let's be honest, this house is probably haunted. Robin Axline: Okay. Cool. Tita Lors: you Okay, so last we met, I left you and we were talking about the difference between graffiti and street art and like historically what graffiti was and definitely not a thorough description or in depth dive or whatever, but definitely some information that's relevant. So before we get into it now, I want to ask, who's your favorite artist? If you have one. Robin Axline: Tough one. I find it hard to narrow down. I'm gonna go what's coming to mind first off is Artemisia. Let me see if I can pronounce this. Gentileski. And she was really ahead of her time as far as women painters in a time full of men. And basically she did these really beautiful paintings of women and how like their bodies move more. It's a more accurate portrayal, I would say, compared to how a lot of men in those days painted. And I'm trying to think of anyone else, but she, I will say her paintings were from or she was, was around like the 15, 1600s. So it's a little bit of an older artist. And then of course, I would secondly say one of my favorites is Kusama. And Tita Lors: yeah. Robin Axline: that's just besides like the interactive portion of it all, just her story and her struggles and how she's still making art is really fantastic. Tita Lors: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Even when she's institutionalized. Robin Axline: Yeah, I, in college, I took a women's art, women in art history class. And just found Tita Lors: huh. Yeah. Robin Axline: out how crazy it was to break through back in the, to start out with and how it's changed now. Tita Lors: Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to remember the road had an exhibit, her exhibit for a while and it was really cool. Yeah. know. Okay. Anyways, so in the painting itself, it really looks like the street lamp. There's a street lamp like in the middle, and it's Harlem, like just a lot of people walking around in Harlem, and the street light actually looks like it's glowing. And then more recently, Andrea Jacobson, I saw her on Instagram, and she has this like, my gosh, my keyboard doesn't work. So she has this series that she does called 100 dresses or 100 women in dresses. And she hasn't done all 100 paintings yet, but she's like slowly trying to make it there. Yeah, yeah, Ryan. Ryan actually bought me one. It's not the one I wanted, but I've never told him which one I wanted, so whatever. And it's really pretty, so I have it. I have to like put it up somewhere. But yeah, I have one in my house. Yay! Yeah. and then all of her pieces come with a poem. Robin Axline: Mmm. That's even more bonus. Tita Lors: Yeah, I know, right? So I really, I really like what she does. So Robin Axline: Yeah, send me those links. Tita Lors: I will. OK, That kind of brings us into this realm of like, what's the difference between, like what makes an artist an artist, I guess. Right? Like someone who just draws and it's a hobby or who doodles or it's whatever. Or, you know, versus someone who's an actual, quotes, artist, an actual artist, right? What's the, what, what's the gap? How do you get there? Because they both started out as graffiti artists or writers, right? But as you'll see, Banksy's stuff, it's more likely to be protected by the government, protected by like the whoever forces that be. And that if like people were to do something to it, then it would be vandalism. versus King Rabo's where, yeah, well, we didn't want that there to begin with, so peace, so happy it's gone. And as a matter of fact, we'll paint over it as well, know, kind of stuff. that's kind of, but I guess the... the part of petty that we're trying to discuss that petty nuance between vandalism or what is considered vandalism and actual art. Right, so last week we talked about graffiti versus street art and then we ended on how it's basically kind of being gentrified and commercialized. Sometimes I hate that I write this out because I get caught up in reading. getting to the petty brawl of it all and the information that I didn't know I wanted to know everything about. Last week I told you how hip hop, the hip hop scene and therefore graffiti culture made its way to UK in the 1980s. What I haven't told you yet is that there are unspoken rules when it comes to street art. Robin Axline: I don't know if there is like a territory thing as well like I guess that's a little bit the same. Yeah, I'm, hmm, don't do it in broad daylight, but that's more like a... Tita Lors: That's an interesting one, actually, the broad daylight one. Remind me to circle back to that. Robin Axline: Okay, all right. Yeah, that's about all I have. Tita Lors: Okay. So according to a Maiden Bed article, the brawl for the wall, a case of for street arts, respect culture, rabo versus binky and a blog called spray paint graffiti. These unspoken rules are They didn't say it this way, but I'm going to say it this way. Thou shalt know your history. then burners above pieces above throwies. And I had to look that up because I was like, a what? Do you know what it is? Robin Axline: I know, yeah, the, well, I know the throwies are those LED things, but anyways. Tita Lors: Yeah. Okay, so this is all from Wiki. A burner is an elaborate, high quality and complex graffiti piece designed to burn or outshine others. So usually features three or more colors, intricate lettering, and people put like significant time investment into this. And then a graffiti piece, it's short for a masterpiece, so like an elaborate multicolored artwork or a mural or something So yes, graffiti piece is short for a masterpiece. It's elaborate. It's multicolored. And so all burners are pieces, but not all pieces are burners. Robin Axline: OK, that's where I was getting confused. Tita Lors: Yeah. Yeah. So like a burner is like the epitome of masterful skill and speed and style. And then a throwy is just something that's like thrown up, that's fast, it's painted, it's stylized, kind of bubble lettering stuff that you would see. Like we talked last week about bombing like trains and bridges and things. So that's more what you're going to see. It's a throwy. Robin Axline: I'll just show you the throwies I was thinking about. Something different. But it has to do with art. anyway. Tita Lors: Okay. I was like, huh. Okay. Yeah, I was like glow sticks. I didn't read that far into it. no. Okay. Now, thou shalt not snitch. Tag on religious buildings while war memorials, houses or small businesses leave a trace or get caught. You never spray over a dead artist's work, never spray over a tribute piece and you never paint over another more established artist's work. Robin Axline: Okay. I've seen a lot of all of those, but yes. Tita Lors: I know, right? So if you do that, you want to take a picture or do some kind of a shout out or at least leave their tag. Right? Okay. Exactly. There you're in memory. Like you're standing on that person's shoulders. They came before you. You wouldn't be there without them, essentially. So you're honoring your elders, essentially. Okay. So we'll keep all of those things in mind as we talk about King Robbo and not very much about Binksy, but whatever. It's fine. So graffiti started as a way for communities to communicate with one another and become a form of, and became a form of self-expression and political commentary. And this is the idea, or this idea is the cornerstone in the debate against making street art profitable and commercial goods. In the Made in Bed article, they suggest that the artist loses the authenticity and direction in their craft when they are prioritizing profit over art. And the... article also answers a question that we had a few weeks ago when I was like, we know who Banksy is, which we don't, but whatever everyone theorizes that we know. so we were asking, you know, why being anonymous? What's the point of being anonymous? Blah, blah, and all of that stuff. So the point of anonymity is to create work that shares a message, showcases their skill and can be accessible to the public. While it's great that graffiti artists and writers are getting acknowledgement, the big question that keeps coming up is what's the difference between graffiti and street art? Who gets to decide what is mindless vandalism versus actual art? And does it really all just boil down to profit? Mm hmm. Yeah, so there's a like a 40, 45 ish minute long documentary called Graffiti Wars, where they're like interviewing King Robbo. And they talk about stuff. I'm to play a little bit of a clip from there. And and they really kind of get into to that, too, right? Like, it's not. fair kind of what was the thing that I asked you to remind me about? Robin Axline: broad daylight graffiti. Tita Lors: Yeah, right. Like there was this one artist who was like, this is this is the tag that I used to get arrested for that I got arrested so many times for this that I ended up having to just go to jail. Like this is the art that this happened to me for. And then all I did was change this style in this way. And then it became art instead of. Right? Like now I'm, I'm out here in broad daylight. I'm still painting on walls that don't belong to me that I have no permission to paint on. But for some reason now all of a sudden it's legal. Whereas what I was doing before it's not. So who gets to decide that and why? Yeah. Robin Axline: Yeah, I see that goes back to the profit of it all. Tita Lors: Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. And then they also interviewed. Okay, I guess, sure, Robin Axline: you Tita Lors: but like, I'm also seeing art that's on walls that's way better than anything Banksy's, anyways, we'll get into it, blah blah blah. Anyways, so, I keep mentioning King Robbo. Yes, go ahead. Robin Axline: Yeah. Yeah. yeah. I was going to add a real side thing to that is I see several tours going through Bushwick because they've got all those really colorful walls and some are really professionally done, but it's mixed in with a lot of different tags and Honestly, a lot of the people on these tours would have never gone to Bushwick if there wasn't the mural art and the graffiti and the tours. Like they look like, like, why are you in this neighborhood? Like they probably would have never went to Tita Lors: Yeah, yeah. Robin Axline: seek it out themselves. So it's kind of like funny when I I'm like, Tita Lors: Uh-huh. Robin Axline: they're on one of those tours. So he is right that it brings people like that might not have gone before. Tita Lors: my goodness. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Who probably maybe don't belong in that neighborhood too. But like, yes, I get that. I mean, if you created an Instagram and started posting all the other artists, then people would come for them too. Not just for a Banksy. Robin Axline: Just to what end is, yeah, exactly. Tita Lors: Yeah, exactly. That actually reminded me, complete sidetrack. But I was in Chicago one time for a conference and there was like something I didn't really have to be at so I didn't go. And I was there with my aunt, cousin, whatever. Anyways, so I go, there's a specific. pizza place where you're supposed to like it's known for their deep dish Chicago pizzas and I had to like take a bus no I had to take a train and a bus to get there and I was just definitely not like somebody who's from Chicago. Robin Axline: No. Tita Lors: Definitely like somebody who's used to warmer weathers. definitely lived in California. Robin Axline: Uh-huh. Tita Lors: So and did not belong in that particular neighborhood at all. And I'm like trying to get on the bus and this girl's like, you're not from here, are you? And I'm all, no, yes. What's the right answer? Robin Axline: I know. Tita Lors: Is it the phone and the navigation that's giving me away? The fact that I have no idea where I'm supposed to be going. And she's like, yeah, no, I can tell. And I'm like, that's not good. I'll just keep my... I know, me too. Robin Axline: glad you're okay. It's kind of a wild thing to say. Tita Lors: I know. But I'm like, okay, noted. I'm sticking out like a sore thumb. For sure. Yes. Okay, anyways. So I keep talking about Robbo. King Robbo Do you have any idea who King Robbo is? So, his government name is John Robertson. he started his career in the early 1970s. I'm going to call it a career because he's, he was an artist the entire time. but people might not see it that way. Um, so he started his career in the early 1970s. He put up his first big piece in 84, 85, I saw two different times. And he began to really identify as a graffiti writer around that time. and this was so. so much a new thing that he would tell people, I'm a graffiti writer. And they would be like, the hell is that? And then he'd have to tell people about what he does and how he's doing it, why he's doing it, blah, blah. And then people would be like, for real, like, I want to do that too. And so he made his own, like, crew. And they were called the art masters. Yeah, I know, right? And then like, he just started tagging next to like more renowned people who had been at it longer than him and who were like more well known than him so that he could maybe get to meet them and then he started meeting them. ended up on like, he said six different crews at some point. Just like being able to get to know all of these artists and really learn about the craft and all that stuff. So he's like, yeah, we him and his crew, the art masters, they bombed the hell out of Northamptonshire. Right. So they're like tagging all over the trains and the walls and all that stuff. And then eventually he did move back to London, where he's originally from. And one of his most notorious pieces is Robbo Inc. in Regions Canal. I'm going to share my page with you so you can see it. Do do do do do do share. So it's this thing right here. Yeah, so that was up for 25 years. Like it there's definitely there ended up still being like tags over it, but the. This remained the scroll on the right hand side still remained and like all of that. I'll show you what it ended up looking like. a lot of what I'm telling you right now is coming from an interview from IDNgraffiti.co.uk. They interviewed King Robbo himself. this is like the stuff that's coming from the interview. So he really enjoyed. what he said about this craft for him that he really enjoyed is just seeing his name all over the city, the adrenaline that he would get from excitement and from putting up the graffiti and having to like sneak into these places and really figuring out how to do that and get out and not get caught and not go to jail. And that was like really cool for him because he I think he had like a rough childhood and he ended up having to work for his uncle kind of really early on. And this was really just the escape that he needed. Yeah, and he was like doing this all over, not just in London, but in different countries. Eventually he was even in New York too. So like all over the place. And then when London... graffiti writers, they started moving away from a New York style of writing. He started to experiment and create his own style of writing. And he would still use the New York style though on trains. He said he would do that so you could still read Robbo as the train speeds past. So there's, I wonder if there's like something specifically about the New York style that makes it easier to see. Yeah. Yeah, so he ultimately left the graffiti scene because of, you know, family commitments and being an adult and he had kids and had to be responsible and do the right thing for his family, right? All of that jazz. And then a lot of his art got painted over, got, you know, removed and all of that stuff. And he, but the one thing that stayed is the Regents, the oldest one is the Regent Canal one that he did. Yeah. So the one that I showed you that stayed up for 25 years. I don't want to say untouched, but like for the most part it remained until Banksy hit the scene. This guy. I know. So how did King Robbo and Banksy first meet? They had a cheeky little interaction and I'm going to try and share that with you. I can bring it up. So loud! my God! Robin Axline: you Tita Lors: Unnecessarily loud. Holy cannoli. I could picture what's happening because I've seen similar interactions with my cousins and stuff. It's so funny. But yeah, you're not going to forget somebody who slaps you. Yeah, definitely not. I had some chick in high school. like in a joking way, slap me like on my lower chin-ish area, a light, it was a light slap. And I told her, don't, you know, I don't like when people touch my face. Please don't do that again. And then she did it again. And I like, like, you know, what's that called when you like punk somebody out? Yeah, she went running. I was. Robin Axline: Yeah, yeah. Nice! I knew you wouldn't have let that happen. What? Yeah. Hold me back, hold me back. Tita Lors: I was like, listen... I know, do it again, I swear! Anyways, so... I know... Well, actually funny thing is, she was friends with my friends and she had the nerve to come up to me later that day and like say some shit and I threw my books on the ground and my other friend who had no idea what was happening, she like stepped in front of me and she's like nervous laughing. Because she has no idea what's happening and I'm like, you better get her away from me. Robin Axline: But to throw hands. Tita Lors: I know, I will throw hands. I've never had to get into a fight at that point with anybody at school, but I will punch her. Like, I was so mad. Anyways, right? You don't forget those people. But Robin Axline: Yeah, yes. Tita Lors: yeah, so Binksie went running, his feelings got hurt. that's kind of how they first met. And then Banksy, in the documentary, they reached out to him and he was like, that never happened. I don't know who he slapped, but I hope they deserved it, blah, So, sure. And then it was find La-Di-Da until there was a book that was written about London graffiti artists and that culture and all of that stuff. It's called London Hand Styles. So that came out in 2009. Yeah. And that was the first time he'd ever told the story in an interview. And it's in the book. And it like says it was him, right? So that happens. And after that happened, Banksy commits the cardinal sin and paints over the Regent Canal. painting. Yes. So he not only have you ever seen it? Yeah. Yeah. So it's like the painter kind of painting over his thing. Robin Axline: I have, yeah, have seen it actually. Mm-hmm, yeah. Tita Lors: So not not only that, but he paints over specifically the tag on the right hand side. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So that happens and it's it's la di da right for for King Robbo at first he's like, you know, it's fine if he had just not painted over the tag it would have been fine you know but that's kind of what started this back and forth between them so in that one thing they redid it one two three four five six seven times Potentially eight because at some point somebody either Banksy himself or the government Just buffed it out. They like blacked it out completely. So there was nothing there for a time until somebody came back and like, I think it was Robbo, he painted over it. But yeah, so there's this back and forth between them. And then also, like, people are taking sides, obviously, there's Team Robbo, Team Banksy, you know, and they're tagging over each other stuff, blah, blah, all of this stuff, just back and forth. Starting from 2009. Okay, so at first it wasn't anything serious to Robbo. To Robbo, at least it was just tit for tat. Robbo doesn't ever paint over what Bang C creates. He kind of just turns it into something. He adds something to it. He will adapt. what is already there and make it something for himself or the meaning of it. So he's never covering the original artwork, just kind of adding to it and putting different pieces up. And for Robbo, the line got crossed when I guess at some point Banksy, he created piece referencing Robbo and calling him basically just like some blue collar worker. Yeah, you're some working class whatever guy, right? Rob was like, okay, now you've made it personal at this point, right? Something I think that he takes pride in, he takes care of his family this way. So he takes pride in that. And also that every time they go out into the world and they're doing this tit for tat thing, Robbo thinks he's trumping Banksy because he's just adapting and improving Banksy's work, rather than just covering it up. Because if you if I just cover it up, it's whatever it's gone now. So nobody cares. But now you see I'm better than you. Yeah, exactly, right? Because the big thing for Robbo is that you're using stencils. Let's see you freehand something. I can freehand like this. did it myself. You within five minutes used a stencil, sprayed this, and that's what you created. But I took the time and I did it myself. Exactly. And here's the proof. My art versus yours. It's very petty and I love it. Yeah. So again, takes pride in being a real, real writer, rather than just just using stencils to mass produce things. For King Robbo, graffiti is not about money, though he did eventually start receiving money for his gallery work after the feud kind of garnered him some recognition. ultimately, this feud which people have portrayed and probably actually was at some point really heated between these two artists, in his own words, for King Robbo, it was the kick up the arse to get out there and do it again. Because he had been wanting to go back and create that that creative desire never left but you know as what happens usually for most adults rivalries, it really brought a lot of notoriety to graffiti, art, and street art and all of that stuff. So King Robbo got back into creating more regularly. He was doing new work and getting featured in galleries, actually the same gallery that first featured Banksy. And people had a lot to say about that. Yeah, he was experimenting with new styles, including stencils, but just really for him, it was about proving on his own merit that he actually is an artist. He's not he doesn't just do graffiti. He's not just a street artist. He he's an artist writ large. And that he can create the there's a piece. I'll share it with you. that was meant to do that, but you know, Banksy then drew over, painted over the mural again, or the Regents' canal art again. So the feud continued. I know, right? but... For King Robbo, he saw this gallery work as something that referenced graffiti and street art, wasn't quite the same. And in his words, graffiti is street art, and that is art. Just period, right? how did the feud end, you might be asking? I saw somewhere that it was a tragic car accident. I saw somewhere else where he was just found in the street, unconscious. But yeah, tragedy struck and he was in a coma for like three years and in 2014 he passed away. Yeah, I know. and it happened like while they were trying to create the documentary too. He was like, you know, Banksy was the last person to put something up. I can't just leave it there. I got to come back. And then he wasn't able to come back and do his thing. yeah, later on, Banksy went back to the Regent Canal and he created a piece that referenced the original piece with his tag and all of that stuff in Memorial. Yeah, yeah, it sucks. Here's all of the different renditions of this one wall. OK, so that's what it started as. And then this is how it was. And in the documentary, guess Banksy was like, well, you if you don't want your art to get covered over, then don't put it in these random places that people where it's going to get messed up. Right. So then this is what Banksy did to it. Got rid of his tag. Yeah. And then Robbo came back and he created King Robbo and he left the original painter guy. Yeah. And then Banksy put fucking Robbo. sorry. Effing. Robbo. And then, and then, so it's black because somebody either Banksy or somebody else, the government, whomever the powers that be just blacked out the wall. buff, it's buffing it out. And, um, King Robbo then created this thing. And then when Robbo passed away, this is what it looked like. Yeah. Robin Axline: sad. Yeah, I, now that we're talking about all this, I saw a lot of tributes to Robbo in the Lake Street Tunnel in London. It's actually one of the only places where you can, it's legal to do graffiti in. and Banksy actually had like some event there one time too but it's really beautiful to look at if you just have time look it up later but there are some Robbo tributes in there I do remember. Tita Lors: made me not if that interaction happened the way he said made me turn me off to being see a lot because it's very you're very focused on your own ego I guess if you can't Anyways, whatever. yeah, yeah, exactly. You can't just be like, man, yeah, I know who you are because how can you not know who this guy is? He's like all over the walls. You know, and again, right, one of one of the unspoken rules is know your history. Exactly. So, you know. but it's, think it's really a lot more tragic because this, passed away literally right as he was going to get the dream, right? That people were starting to pay for his work. and not just like any people, but big industry people. He was going from a graffiti artist to like an artist in general. Yeah. Right. And you could hear a little bit of like, it's crazy, you know, that like, that that's what's happening. That I'm going from this to that. And like, what's the difference kind of struggle that he was experiencing a little bit and all of that. Which brings us back then around to how do you decide what is street art versus graffiti versus just art? Robin Axline: I still feel like it's so cyclical. mean, I don't have a definitive answer. Tita Lors: Yeah. Yeah, I kind of what it makes me think of is like the whole love is love is love is love is love. Right. Art is art is art. It's whatever. Like, what's the difference between the art that my kids throw up on my on my walls? That I to be like, wow, so proud of you. Yay. That I've got a one of a kind design. by you on my walls, cut that out of the walls for later. Right, like what's the difference between that and what we see elsewhere? This is me trying to make a poignant point. We'll see if it hits. the irony or perhaps the point of this feud is for us to reflect on the systems that determine for us what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. Yeah, because it could have gone either way. It could. People could have decided that King Robbo was the acceptable form of art and being seen was just stencil trash, you know, like people were saying, you're cheating. So people could be like, that's nothing. That's not art. And it could have gone either way. It just happened that Banksy was the one that got the notoriety. And King Robbo had the tragic end. Anyways. So who's Banksy? man. Honestly, after all the research I did about King Robbo, the documentary that I watched, the interviews, the papers, the articles and stuff, I don't really care. Sorry. Robin Axline: Ha ha ha. Tita Lors: Like, who cares? Really, I don't know, whatever. So here's what I said. He is a talented anonymous artist with a big ego who stands on the shoulders of Bleck the Rat, who is another, he's the original stencil graffiti artist who originated in France. So you'll see like a lot of his artwork is reflected in what Banksy he does. And yeah, and Banksy made a comment too of like, well, every time I try to do like some original work, I find out that he did it first. I'm like, cause hello. But yeah, Robin Axline: Cause yeah. Tita Lors: so I don't know if you're team Robbo or team Banksy, but I think it's pretty obvious team Robbo for life over here on my side. Yeah. What do you think? Robin Axline: Yeah, I've always had mixed feelings about Banksy before this episode. in hearing the Robbo thing, I respect him more too. Robbo yeah. Yeah, I still respect both of them, but I do... feel like my gut is saying that Banksy is more of an ego at this point. And probably is Tita Lors: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Robin Axline: not worth as much hype as he's gotten. Don't, don't at me, but. Tita Lors: Yeah. Seriously, listen, don't at us because also in the documentary, allegedly Banksy was like, crap, what was it that he said? to like the people who say he's not all that, he's like, yeah, I agree. And I hope that someday I earn the lack of recognition that I deserve. Yeah, so exactly. So don't at us. He also doesn't think he's all that. So whatever. Robin Axline: Don't be coming screaming at my front door. Tita Lors: Exactly! Robin Axline: Yeah, so I'm gonna say Team Robbo as well. Tita Lors: Yeah. I had a thought and it has since flown out of my brain. so whatever. It's fine. What's your glimmer? Robin Axline: My glimmer is from earlier this week. Someone sent me a quote from Rilke and it's been sticking with me the entire week so far. actually I have it up. Let me just read it real quick. Tita Lors: Okay. Robin Axline: We have been put into life as into the element we most accord with. And we have, moreover, through thousands of years of adaptation come to resemble this life so greatly that when we hold still through a fortunate mimicry, we can hardly be differentiated from everything around us. We have no reason to harbor any mistrust against our world, for it is not against us. If it has terrors, they are our terrors. and if it has abysses these abysses belong to us. If there are dangers we must try to love them and if only we arrange our life in accordance with the principle which tell us that we must always trust in the difficult then what appears to us as the most alien will become our most intimate and trusted experience." And again that was a quote from Rilke. Yeah, there's a lot to process that I'm still sitting with. So I will send you a copy. That's my glimmer. just can't stop thinking about it. And it really made my thinking change this week. what's your glimmer? Tita Lors: Oh, my glimmer is that I got to see Bruno Mars this past weekend. I know. Robin Axline: Whaaaat? No way. Tita Lors: Yeah, like randomly, it was completely unplanned. and it kind of. That actually the glimmer isn't that I got to see Bruno Mars. It was amazing. I loved it. Like he's such a talented performer, but I think the glimmer for me is in the fact that I got to see Bruno Mars, it really brings home that I have amazing friends. Like the people that I have surrounded myself with, who I have around me, I... spent like again the first two years of being out here like intentionally isolating myself because I refused to make friends but the friends that I did finally make I really just have the most amazing friends and the best support system out here I keep saying and I think it's unfair to my friends out here I keep saying they have no support system they don't have anybody out here and that's so false I have a great handful of people it's not good to me in this moment especially coming out of like years of feeling so alone almost like self-imposed I guess kind of but yeah so that's my my glimmer I'm needing more support is just that I know if I was in California, it would be a lot easier for me to be like, hey, can I just drop off the kids real fast because this thing is coming up or whatever, or, you know. But just because I don't exactly have that here doesn't mean that I'm not supported by the people around me. And I think I need to really start recognizing that and leaning into that as opposed to what I Yeah. So if you have a glimmer, don't forget to tell us about it. Send it through our website or call us on our T-line. We would love to hear about it. Your glimmers are my glimmers. The lines are way open. We're just waiting. Please call. Robin Axline: Heath. So yeah, give us your glimmers, thoughts, questions. Tita Lors: Your petty stories. will be your desperate ex. I will. I'm not too proud to beg for your stories. but yeah. So, I think that's it, right? Do you have anything else? Yeah, did we already mention that you made stickers? And if people are interested, hey, if you subscribe, then maybe we can figure out a way to send you a sticker. I have no idea. I'm making Robin make promises that I don't know if she can keep or not. Robin Axline: No. Yeah, definitely. you subscribe, hit us up. We can figure something out. Tita Lors: Yay. Okay. Well, I hope you enjoyed hanging out with us. Please, please again, subscribe to all the things so you don't miss the next episode. And until next time, everyone, fuck it. Toodaloo!