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New Jedi Order Dark Tide 1 Onslaught Patreon Recording · Star Wars Alliance

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to book two of our Star Wars
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: book Club with of course our series The New Jedi Order.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Book two is of course dark Tied one on Slot so.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Written by Michael Stackpole, who's one of my favorites in Legends.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Michael A. Stackpole, this is, like I said, book number
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: two of how many total? Again it's I believe we
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: said it was nineteen nineteen. Yeah, I was gonna say that,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: but I didn't want to be wrong. So nineteen books
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: in this series, guys, as a reminder, these are not
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: going to be very big. They're not going to be
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: super detail oriented. We're only going to hit some of
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: course favorite character moments. We're going to be talking about
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: and in connections, whether some things that we see as
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: far as those connections currently or something that we would
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: like to see come to canon. And then, of course
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: the main antagonists of this story so far is the
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Yujen Vong, so we were going to be talking about
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: them some things that we have learned more so in
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: this book moving forward. So with that, Katie, I really
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: hate that you said that you liked Michael A. Stackpole.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Did you hate this book?
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: I didn't hate. It is a very strong word. I think,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: and we always talk about this, We talk about this
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: in most Star Wars books, perspectives. This one had a lot,
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: a lot.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: I can kind of see that, but I also kind
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: of disagree because it's stuck to the same perspectives. Like
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: we didn't get Ganner's perspective with Quorn, true true, true,
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: but we got Kryn, Jason, Jana Anakin.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: I think, okay, so not necessarily, I think the only
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: new one is Corn Yes, Kuren.
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  Speaker 2: Actually I say Luke's perspective. We really didn't even get
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Luke's perspective. We got Jason's perspective.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and I and you are correct. I think
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: more so. I I think the easy target was to
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: say perspectives. I think more so a lot is happening
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: in this book, and I don't necessarily think it is
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Michael's fault. I think because of this being a series
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: and initiative, he had to go somewhere from where we
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: left off and of course vector Prime. So again, not
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: gonna go over specific long form story arcs in this book,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: but I will say some ten Pole character moments here,
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: things that stood out to me. Three characters specifically stood
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: out to me that I really really enjoyed Anakin Jason Jana.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: I think and from what I am getting from already
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: two books in, I think this is the closest thing
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: that we could have gotten to what and that's literally
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: what the title is, the New Jedi Order. I think
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: this is Star Wars Legends way of saying, hey, we're
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: passing the baton.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, next generation kind of thing, like you still get Leya,
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: you still get Luke, but it's from the outside character's
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: perspective really, like Leya does have focused chapters, but it's
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: all kind of exposition, expositioning the New Republic's attitude towards it.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: I did forget. You do get Gavin Dark later, which
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: is kind of like your regular people persona in this
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: he's not a Jedi. But it's good to get a
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: regular person's perspective of the yuz On Vong in this
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: book too, because they're so terrifying yea, and this book
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: really expounds on it because you see the yuz On
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  Speaker 2: Vong like for but they really are. You start to
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: at least because you find Jason ends up in bonds
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  Speaker 2: where he's not being tortured, but he's he's just in pain,
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  Speaker 2: Like that's all there's no use on vong around him.
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  Speaker 2: There's a similar case with Korin and Ganner rescuing a
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  Speaker 2: pair of students and they're just sitting in a pair
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: of bonds in pain. Like yeah, and it's going to
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: continue to lead up to the core philosophy of the Yuzonvong,
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: which is a worshiping of the pain process.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's really like, we're gonna talk more
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: about the Yuzong Vong, but when I read the Yuzong Vong,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: I'm about to show you a picture of what I
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: legitimately believe this book really entails as far as like
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: when I have a picture in my head of the
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Yu Gen Vong and like this Star Wars Galaxy of Legends,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: it is literally this. It is literally Star Wars versus
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: the Xenomorphs, because this is how I like, that is
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  Speaker 1: basically how I see the U Gen Vong, with how
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: crazy they are, with the venoms that they use, the poisons,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: their agileness, they're kind of predatory attack tactician like mind.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: That's what I see like and and it's it's so
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: funny because currently at the time of recording, This Alien
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: Earth is coming out on FX and of course Hulu
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: and Disney Plus, and as somebody who has always wanted
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: to get into that universe, I am literally watching Alien
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Earth right now. I still need to watch the fourth
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: episode and I am still lost three episodes in I
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: like I almost wanted to message the the the group
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: chat and be like, hey, can somebody explain this? Like
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: I'm four years old, but like when I but I
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: know who they are. I know the Xeno Morphs, I
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: know Aliens, I know the franchise. And because of that,
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: whenever I read this, and because of the way, even
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: like the way Luke Jason Leah Mara like these people
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  Speaker 1: are describing the fear and the like in all sens
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: and purposes of the word, how alien the yu Jan
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  Speaker 1: Vong really are? Like, it is so interesting as a concept,
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  Speaker 1: the fact that I still need to wrap my mind
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: around the fact that these individual beings are from a
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  Speaker 1: completely different galaxy. It's not something that we have really
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: gotten to really explore in the Star Wars universe up
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: until now with the Soka right and even then, like
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: there isn't really much in that that we've got to
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: explore because there was no crazy alien that was attacking them.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: There was no weird obstruction of the force in that,
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: whereas in here we I do like the the kind
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: of aha moment that our heroes have in this book,
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: it's like, oh, well, I can't sense them with the Force.
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  Speaker 1: So whenever there is literally a blank space in my
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: force projection of reaching out, I know that the Yujon
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  Speaker 1: vonga right there when I feel nothing, when I when
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  Speaker 1: I when I see no fear, when I feel no fear,
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: like that is where I know the Yujon vongar. And
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  Speaker 1: I think that is very clever. I think that's very fun.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: And this is all kind of what the early books
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: in this series are about, is the Jedi kind of
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: exploring what it means to still be a Jedi and
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: not have access to something that does inherently make you
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: more powerful than your enemy in most cases. I also
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: really like how this book approaches the Force, and I
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: think Michael A. Stackpole writing this works because he's known
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: for his x Wing books. I think this and the
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: x Wing Rogue Squadron books are the only books that
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: he truly wrote for Star Wars, and I think it
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: shows because he approaches the Force in a much different
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: way than other people do. Oh he did write Eejedi two,
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: I take that back his corn hard character of course.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: He's oh wait, that was him. Yeah, I loved Eye
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Jedi though was the That's the weird thing is that
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: I love Eye Jedi and this I kind of feel
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: like was all over the place. But again, like I said,
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's really his fault. I think it's
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: the amalgamation of where the story needed to go, a
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: lot of like you were saying, exposition to what we
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: were being introduced to, because this is still a new concept.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Book two is still new, right, So I don't think
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: it's it's a lot of him doing the legwork for
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: the complicated. Hey, this is what's going on. Like I
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: would have I at this point, it's so funny that
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: I'm saying this only book two. But I would have
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  Speaker 1: really enjoyed if there was some sort of like interview
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  Speaker 1: on YouTube that like had like the first five people
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: in the in the initiative of the New Jedi ordered
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: to be like, hey, this is how we kind of
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: wrote down like where this book was going. You know.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: I think that would be a lot of fun to
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: to kind of get into.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be interesting, No, because I know there's
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: like some interviews, so we'll have to go back and
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: find them. I think, okay, okay, But I like how
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  Speaker 2: Michael A. Stackpole did it because I think you see
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  Speaker 2: a lot of cool stuff with the Force and this
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  Speaker 2: you also see Luke and Mara's journey kind of expound
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: as a couple. They're not together a whole lot, but
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: the scenes where they are together are super important to
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: their relationship.
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  Speaker 1: It's a very strong relationship.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Stackpole apparently also did rate a Star Wars Union,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: which was their wedding comic for Quara and Luke, so
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: there's that too. But there it's chapter twelve in this
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  Speaker 2: book where Anakin has taken Mara to Dantuyene at the
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: request of Luke because dantuine is a very fo centric planet,
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  Speaker 2: very nature hoping to heal Maa, and Mara helps Anakin
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  Speaker 2: expound his relationship with the Force in a way that
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of Legends fanboys forget was the
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: whole purpose of Legends is, Hey, you do have access
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  Speaker 2: to the Force, but you are also human and you
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  Speaker 2: have limits. And she takes this conversation and it's so beautiful,
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: like that, if I got a tattoo there's one quote
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  Speaker 2: in that chapter you can't hear a whisper if you're
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: constantly shouting. That would be probably the tattoo that I
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  Speaker 2: would get is because it's such a powerful quote that
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: people forget to listen, and you see it a lot nowadays,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: like is so powerful. And I love how Stackpole transitions
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  Speaker 2: this to the fights that Luke has where he uses
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: exponential amounts of the force, where he rescues Jason from
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: the usual Bank because Jason has a vision. He thinks
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: he has a dream where he's supposed to go rescue
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: the slaves that they have found on Belkadon. What did
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: you think about that?
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Well, I was just about to ask I I and
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: it's not really an ask. I think it's so fun.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of these Star Wars fanboys could
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: not read this book.
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  Speaker 2: And the reason why because they claim to.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Well, and that's the thing, like they're like, oh, legends, legend, legends, guys.
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  Speaker 1: This literally did exactly what the last Jedi did. They
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: made look Luke looked like a badass. And then immediately
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: after they made look Luke looked like a badass, they
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: made him look that made him look is kind of
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: pushing it for uh, the last Jedi.
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  Speaker 2: But he is show age.
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  Speaker 1: They show his age, They show that he has limits.
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  Speaker 1: He is not this you know, uh, unlimited bad ass
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  Speaker 1: that can do any and all things, you know. Uh.
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  Speaker 1: And it's so interesting because Michael puts emphasis on these moments.
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  Speaker 1: They're there is a pause in the entire setting to
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: give this moment to Luke of Okay, hold on, I'm
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: gonna breathe, okay. And I love how he even phrases
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: it in his in his writing, there's a lot of oh,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: I need to catch my breath. He even like stutters
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: and stammers whenever he's talking in these moments, Like he
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: talks to I forget who it is at the very end,
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: and he's like, you know what you do, you whatever
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: you think is good?
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: You dotor.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: That's the other moment is he he does what you
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: were talking about in the beginning, where he finds the
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: space around this yujuon bomb creature and like helps guide
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: it basically to where he can get torpedoes in it
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: inn that'll explode. It's such a big pull of the
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: force that he legitimately passes out.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Afterwards, he's talking to the senators yeah, whatever you want
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: to do, I'm just gonna lie here like and then
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: passes out. He is a badass and he knows how
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: to use the force appropriately, but he's also human and
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: do you know.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: It's even wilder and again this you can correct me
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, because at this point, at this point
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: in time, and like it is so interesting as somebody
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: who has only read like a very small handful of
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: legends so far, like from the timeline of where we're
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: reading right now, because like I only know when our
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: heroes are young, and they're like, you know, very they're
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: very very young in their hero age. You know, here
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: he is showing his age. He hasn't had kids yet though,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: and I note that they have kids, like the one kid.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: He has one kid. But the thing is, I know
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: that he eventually has a kid, and in my mind,
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: I'm like, dude, you could barely keep up with your nephews,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Like I could only imagine how it's gonna be like
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: when you have a kid. Man, But I oh, I
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: the the character moments that I wanted to talk about was, uh,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: this moment with Jason when he is fighting the gen
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: Vong because of it was a Jason or was Anakin?
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Where because we has to rescue who WU has to rescue?
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's Anakin, right, he goes with.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: Jason t Belkadon Anakin goes with Mara to Dantuine.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. So so it is it is Jason.
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  Speaker 1: I really enjoyed this moment because and call me a
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: sucker for kind of loving the undergo the underdog and
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: kind of like the losers of our stories. But again,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: like you said, Jason gets this false sense of knowing
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: the future because of his teachings, and it's Jason is
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: such a prick, But I I love this very teachable moment.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: You guys have to remember, Luke only knows so much.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: He did not He was not raised in the time
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: of the Jedi with an extensive amount of archives, with
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: so many other people to talk to about these things, right.
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  Speaker 3: And.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: From what my understanding is as far as legends, Luke
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: probably only had a very small handful of like less
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: than five people to really lean on when it came
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: to creating his academy, you know, bringing up the New
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Age of Jedi and everything else. So like he's not
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: going to know everything the people that he kind of
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: leaned on. Are not going to know everything, but they
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: know of things. So this thing of oh visions, oh
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: what visions? Oh well, visions can kind of show you
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: the future. Okay, well what does that mean? Oh well
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: that it means that it could happen or it couldn't happen.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: And you know, it's really the interpretation of how you
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: see the force and blah blah blah. And so like
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: the way that Jason is so confident. And I love
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: that dynamic between Jason and Anakin because there's two life
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: life lessons that we're learning here through them because again,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: like you had said, with Anakin and Mara, he's learning, hey,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: you have limits, you're human, right, whereas Jason is learning
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: the same thing but through a completely different mean, right,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: And so being so confident, and like, I like how
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Jason was trying to, you know, have this philosophical talk
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: with Luke with like like stop it, no, but he's like,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: we're Jedi. We're Jedi, which means that we're the good guys.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: We're the people who save people, and so we have
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: to go do this. And Luke is like, no, you're
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: only how old is he sixteen? And and that's what
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: He's like, you're only sixteen. You only have the experience
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: of a sixteen year old. You have many years ahead
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: of you, so you'll have a lot more time to
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: learn these things. But let me teach you something real quick.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Just because you can do something does not mean you
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: should do something.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: Is yeah, and he expounds on like, hey, like we
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: have to work for the entire galaxy, not just people.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: And like it. I like seeing the parallels between Ganner
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: and Jason because they kind of have the same ideals
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: because Ganner wants to go save the slaves too, and
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: it's like, well, we're their only hope and Chorn's like,
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: hang on, if you actually listen, you will know that
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: they're basically dead.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like there's no.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: Point like in trying. Where's like, if we can rescue
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: the people that we do know are safe, that we
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: can get out with this information and save the next people.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: Like I do enjoy seeing that parallel. Do you I
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: have a question for you? Do you know where Jason
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: ends up? We have talked about this, but do you remember?
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Uh? I don't think so. I don't think I remember.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: Okay, I am going to spoil this for you, but
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: it's like twenty something. You're is not twenty it's probably
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: fifteen years after this, so it's down in the process
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: he turns into a sith word.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, I remember you saying this. Yeah.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: So with this conversation and knowing that, can you see
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: this transition?
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: I can totally see it. And the really funny thing
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: is is now being reminded of that the crumbs are there,
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: The crumbs are This is setting the groundwork for sure,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: and I really like how like I think it was,
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: was it correct me if I'm wrong? It was Jason
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: that was kind of like hitting on Danny. Yep, see again,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: laying down the groundwork for Okay. So, so the the
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: way that he had his interactions with Luke, you know,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: uh selfishness pass to the dark side with Danny. Okay,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Danny his his his selfishness with uh, with love and
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: and and the fear of losing and and and all
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: of these things right past to the dark side. Like
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: they're setting all of this up. And I really like
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: that now now that that is kind of like in
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: my head, I'm like, okay, I can I can see
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: where this is going. But I kind of like, how
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: if this was legitimately something brand new that I was reading.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: I could probably come up with that guess, But you
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: can almost say the same thing about Anakin almost. And
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: the reason why I say this is every character can
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: have a redeeming moment, right you. So Jason has those
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: redeeming moments here. Anakin has those redeeming moments here. But
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: Anakin has it just as hard. Look at the conversations
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: that he had to have about Han Solo, about his
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: father hating him for the fact that Chewbacca is dead
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: and all of that. There's so much weight on Anakin.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: I can see one more toothpick on the pile completely
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: breaking him, so like I could see it going either way.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: And even like in all of that too, I really
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Han Solo had very minimal parts in this book.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he literally one.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: He literally only had the one conversation about, oh, you know,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: you don't know how Chewbacca felt I was his best friend.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: You don't know that he was proud of me. Blah
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: blah blah. He hated me, he hates me, he hated
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: me in his last moments, blah blah blah. Like there
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: was all that, but like Anakin wasn't even there in
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: that conversation and Anakin was saying the exact same things
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: about his father towards him. Yeah, like that was, uh,
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: it broke my heart. It broke my heart.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's It's super intense. And the book after Ruin,
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: which is the next book that we're gonna be talking about,
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: there's a there's another duology by James Lucino and it
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: goes into Hansilla. Like Han is the main character in
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: that one, so we will get to Han's part of
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: the story. But yeah, just seeing how the twins and
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: then Ana can handle everything, it's super interesting, especially like
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: me knowing where they all end up. I'm not gonna
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: spoil like too much. I wanted to bring up Jason,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: but like, ah it, it's super powerful, and I'm kind
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: of remembering the next bits of.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Ruin, so to to veer away from that and instead
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: of trying to spoil me, let's kind of go down
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: the same path with our next topic. And this will
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: probably be the last topic because we already talked about
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: the Jean Vong, But one of the topics that we
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: wanted to talk about is canon. What are some of
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: the things that we saw in this book that could
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: very easily fall into canon. And what are the things
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: that we see? Oh, this clearly influenced what is now canon.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: We already mentioned one. I think the story of Luke Skywalker.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: I think that is very much there is some influence here.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: Now do I know that? Oh my gosh, Johnson, do
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: I know that he read New Jedi Order? No, I
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: have no idea if you. But coincidentally, boom, we've made
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: it into canon. Luke Skywalker's an old man. He's dead now.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: But you know, we got to see there was some
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: evolution there. There was a show and age, and I
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: think again, like we said, also, it's kind of the
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: only path to take because you are, like we're saying,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: with the New Jedi Order, we are passing the baton,
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: We're moving to a new generation. And so the only
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: way to do that without killing off your characters is, oh,
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: let's make them a little older to where they can't
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: be the hero all the time. So, Katie, what are
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: some things in this book that besides like the obvious, like, oh,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: it would be so cool if they adapted the yu
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Joan Vong into Cannon. What are some things here that
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: you could very well see be implemented into Cannon.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: I would love to see Gavin come in. I I
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: really think Gabon is such a cool character, and going
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: back to Rogue Squadron and everything, I think he fits
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: very well in the story that's being told. And instead
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: of Wedge Antilles and Tycho Kelchu recreating Rogue Squadron, you
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: could potentially introduce him at Mando Vers and go, hey,
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: I'm rebuilding Rogue Squadron in the name of my brother, Bigs,
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: Luke Skywalker, Wedge Antilia's all these people like and I
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: think that could be such a cool moment that's a
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: gig fan service sye, but also works with the story
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: that's being told. The other one I was gonna say
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: was the Force stuff, which you already brought up. I
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: think the Force is such a big thing in this book.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: Well, and and we have kind of talked about this
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: with Throng. Right in the Throng trilogy, we were introduced
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: to those creatures that no agree no, no no, the other
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: the other creatures that prevented like Force. Yes, So like
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: there's so many things that like we've kind of said
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: that play along with the Force. And I love, by
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: the way, every person who is a true fan of
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: these characters loves their characters being in a challenge. If
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: I saw my heroes winning all the time, it would
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: get boring, which people think that's how Superman is, but
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: that's not how he is. He has challenges. He's an
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: interesting character. Stop hating on Superman. But I digress this.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: I would love the way that the Yu Jean Vong
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: are kind of hidden from the Force, are kind of
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: a force negative if you will. I think that's a
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: very interesting concept. I think that does place a very
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: big challenge for people who do use the Force as
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: a crutch, which is a lesson that Anakin learned in
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: this book. I think that would be an amazing thing
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: to be put into Cannon. As far as characters in
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: the same vein as you. And just because I did
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: end up reading Eye Jedi on my own, corn.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: Horn such a good character.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: I made the joke a very time ago when when
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: I first read the book, Uh, we were in a
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: small group chat with Chris Uh from my manner that like, oh,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: Coran Horn is literally just Batman in the Star Wars universe.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: The book should really just be called I Batman.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: And I do love how Ey Jedi gets brought up
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: in this where Ganner's like, well you went vigilante pode,
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: why can't we?
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: And I love that. I love that For one, Michael, uh,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: don't know how you found us on Patreon, But if
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: you ever scare me like that again with Gavin, with
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: with Koran, I swear to god I will never buy
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: another one of your books. That I was so like,
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: I was sad. I was so sad, but like how
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: like peaceful he almost went I'm like, okay, as long
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: as he wasn't being ripped to shreds. You know, he
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: went out on his own accord. You know that was
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: kind of my I kind of gave in to the moment.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: And then literally literally the last chapter starts with him
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: oh and then I kind of was just floating in
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: the air and I'm like, you, son of a bitch,
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: Son of a bitch, why would you do that to me?
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: But I loved it, like because again, one thing that
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: I actually really love about corn Horn as a character
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: is like, you have these ideal stereotypes as like Jedi,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: and I feel like corn Horn breaks that stereotype every direction.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: He's a freaking psychopath also, which does which makes me
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: believe more so that he is the bat Man of
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: the Star Wars universe. He's like, oh, yeah, hey, hold
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: out your lightsaber real quick. I'm just gonna grab it
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: real quick. You know, Like there's so many different ways
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: you could go about doing this, Koran, Like why would
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: you go and do that? Which, again, like, as far
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: as things going into canon, I need more force abilities
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: in Cannon. I think is is something that I would
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: really appreciate. Uh, there's so many interesting things that legends
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: put into the force and the one that I'm talking
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: about in this book, Koran has the ability to reduce
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: pain and share it and so and it's for like
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: a really interesting, like unique purpose for this part of
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: the book. And so he's like, hey, the only way
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: that I could re really feel pain unintentionally and intentionally
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: is you know, just holding a lightsaber by the blade.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: He's such a psycho and I love it.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: So my last question for you, what did you think
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: of the true last chapter you called Korn's re Emergence.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: Yes, so that's that's chapter Vong. Yeah, I was gonna say, well,
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: that's chapter thirty six. The last chapter. The epilogue is
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: the it's the it's the epilogue with the US on Vong.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: I will say, this is very like and of course
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: this is this literally can't be it because of course
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: we are in the year twenty twenty five. This is
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: very post credit scene. This is very like, This is
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: very MCU coded of like like it's it's it's every
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: stereotypical post credit scene where like the camera zooms in
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: on the villain and he has one last word and
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: like fades the black like this is the very stereotype
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: post credit scene for one. But I like a there's
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: something about a mustache twirling villain that I just love.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: And this is exactly who this is. Remind me who
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: the character name is it is shot, Yes, yes, I
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: I love it because again it all tends and purposes
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: throughout book one, throughout book two, the Yugen Vong are primal.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: They are inhumane. There is there is nothing thing that
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: should connect you to these creatures, right, and so to
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: see at the very end they actually have conversation, there's dialogue.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: There is a brain in that skull of theirs. That
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: is what's more intriguing to me than anything because again,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: like all of that that I said, but like near
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: the end, when you learn that the u Gen Vong
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: have infiltrated the ranks of the Republic and they're like,
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: oh shit, like they could be any one of us.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: Where are they right? And Leah gets to a moment
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: where she's on a standoff with one of them and
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: the Ujen Vong just says, hurt me. She dies. Very
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: minimal there, there's it's not a heavy dialogue, there's not
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: a huge back in. It is very minimal. It is
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: again showing you there's not a whole lot to these beings.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: They just know murder. And so to get the dialogue
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: that you do in the epilogue, it piques your interests
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: into being like, Okay, there's a lot more to these characters.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: There's a lot more to the yu Jon Vong. What
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: does this mean? And I think that's what really draws
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: you win. But like again, like it's just just me
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: as the classic comic book guy, I love a mustache
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: twirling villain.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think this one is especially interesting because
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: this is where they first learn like or this iteration
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: of the Yuzon bank, this force is first learning of
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: the Jedi with the two Jedi for the output is
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: what they say that Koran killed were Shy's family. Yeah,
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: and so now he's like, I will find well.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: And that was the thing like when I had to write,
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: I read. I had to read the epilogue twice because
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: I was like, they keep saying Jedi, but who are
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: they talking about? And then when I when you read
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: the context of it, you're like, oh shit, this is
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: the the one that that Koran killed. He's wanting to
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: kill Koran. And then motherfucker Michael, if you kill or
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: anybody anybody, don't he Katie. Okay, all right, now that's
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: just spoiling right there. Koran's dead, dead to rights. I
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: see it right there, all over your face, Katie. She's
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: covering her her face body. It goes if I.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: Know next book.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: I know that I can't get attached to these characters
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: because literally they're not canon, so like I can't get
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: too attached to them. That's for one. For two, I
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: know that he is not of the original three heroes,
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: so he is expendable like like that is just like
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: the way that Star Wars is. But I I love him.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: He is. He is a great character. I like I said,
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: when I just randomly decided, hey, and and this is
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: more so because we were so graciously given the audio files. Yeah,
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: we were getting the audiobook files for Eye Jedi, and
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: I was like, I'm just gonna read it. We had
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: no intention on reviewing it at all. Uh So when
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: I grabbed it and listened to it, I was like, yeah,
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: but this is probably my new favorite character in Star Wars.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: And again, he.
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: Is a younger adult middle age in I Jedi compared
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: to now, I like, I look at him like almost
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: like a commissioner Gordon like he is.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: He is a veteran.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's basically the same age as Luke. Yeah, he's
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: around there. So yeah.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I got.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: To meet his son in this book.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I kind of like the way he defeats
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: the the Yujen Vong is kind of like a lesson
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: that he got from his son, which I thought was
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: really fun. You can never you know, you know the
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: old saying of old dogs can't learn new tricks. That's
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: not true. That's not true.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: You never stopped learning exactly.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I I enjoyed this book. I do think
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: that because of how heavy it is, take your time
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: with it. Whoever is reading along with us, take your
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: time with this book. Uh. Really absorb everything that you can.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: I'm scan reading this and and and kind of pumping
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: them out as much as I can so that way
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: we can do these, which doesn't mean I'm not going
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: to go back to these, like I think once we
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: do finish this, you know, I then will have all
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: the books. I am literally and Abby's gonna hate me
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: for this. I am buying a physical copy of this book,
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: and I am buying a digital copy of this book.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: So like I have, I have a book like literally
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: right next to my bed, but like sometimes it's a
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: little too bright and if I turn it down, it's
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: not bright enough. So I'm like, if I read it
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: on my phone, it's just fine. So so I'll just
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: be like, what chapter am I on? Cool, let's just
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: go right to that.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: Mike Kindle's my best friend. I obviously own every single
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: one of these, and I went to my mom's this
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: week and I was like, I don't feel like packing
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: my book, so I'm going to buy it.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: Guys. And also I want to give a huge shout
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: out to Barnes and Noble for still how these on order.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: I am. I am buying these like literally after this
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: recording right now, I am going to Barnes and Noble,
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: and I am buying the third book. These books are
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: only eight dollars at Barnes and Noble. They are also
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: only eight dollars on digital, so it is sixteen dollars
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: for two books. That's a steal in this economy. That's
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: a steep so and the only reason why I'm doing
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: it is because I'm literally donating plasma and buying these books.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: So I'm not using any of our real money. Is
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: the excuse that I've been giving Abby. She's like, why
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: you keep buying books. I'm like, oh, but it's it's
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: I'm not dealing it. I'm not touching our budget whatsoever.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: It's literally just I'm selling my body to read these books.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: Okay, I mean you're not wrong. Oh it still sucks, but.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Hey, right now, it's all worth it. If these books
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: start to suck, then it becomes a real problem. You know,
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: I'm selling my body for bad media. That would be horrible.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: But no, I'm having to start buying only one copy
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: of the book.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: Exactly, but I'm having a lot of fun with it.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: I we have seventeen more books to go, y'all.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: We will be talking dark Time number two Ruin next month,
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: so we will see you guys then. May the Force
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: be with you