Latest / The Trauma Therapist / Episode 782: From War to a Farm Called Secret Garden Alaska with Robert Stark

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Episode 782: From War to a Farm Called Secret Garden Alaska with Robert Stark · The Trauma Therapist

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Or welcome back to the Trauma Therapist Podcast. My name is Gamiferson. My
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mission is to help trauma therapist be their incredible selves, to be human,
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to be real, not just a clinician. I'm a big believer in who
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we are is more important than what we know, and this requires cultivating authenticity,
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genuineness, and vulnerability, and that requires intention. Can learn more about
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my courses and workshops by going to the Trauma Therapist project dot com. That's
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the Trauma Therapist Project dot com. Let's get started, all right, So
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five or three to one, our folks, welcome back to the podcast.
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I am very excited to have make us today. Bob Stark. Bob,
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welcome to the podcast. Thank you very much for having me. You are
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welcome. So. Bob lives off grid in rural Alaska with his wife and
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daughters, where they own and operate a small farm named Secret Garden, Alaska.
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He joined the army at seventeen and parachuted into Iraq during the two thousand
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and three invasion. He was the first in his family to graduate high school
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in college. Bob, welcome, Before we going here, share with the
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listeners where you're from originally and where you are currently. I was born in
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Caldwell, Idaho, and my mother moved my brother and I north to Noam,
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Alaska when I was about three months old. Oh wow, I've lived
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in Nome, Alaska, seward Eagle River. I've been in Alaska in my
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whole life. Well wow, okay, awesome. So you have that great
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vibe about you. This is very warm and welcome me. It's pretty awesome,
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I gotta say so. All right, let's back up. So why
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did you reach out to me? I reached out to you into it?
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Yeah, because I wrote a book. It was called Warflower, and I
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had a close friend read the book. And that friend is a host of
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a podcast and he listens to all different types of podcasts. I really don't
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until very recently, and so he was really touched by my book and it
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helped him deal with different traumatic events that he had gone through while on mission
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as a Mormon. And he was able to show me these similarities between him
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going door to door in Australia and me going door to door in Iraq and
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the way it touched him and he shared it with his son. He told
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me that I should really get into different trauma podcasts, and he said,
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yours was the one that he really liked, and so I sent you an
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email and here we are today. What do you want to mention his podcast?
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Yeah, his podcast is called Psychedelic Stories, and it's really interesting because
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he grew up in a very cookie cutter family, very Mormon, and it
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wasn't until he was I believe, like twenty eight almost thirty, when he
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started looking at other possibilities that were out there and he started digging deeper into
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the original Mormon beliefs and how they may have experimented with some psychedelics. So
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here's a young young man growing up in this religion, never used any substances,
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and boom, he starts realizing, dang, he's had depression his whole
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life, always on medication, and he wanted to try new things. So
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he grew his own little batch of mushrooms in his closets and that started his
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journey into discovering the healing benefits of different psychedelics. So he shares those.
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Yeah, yeah, well, uh, that's that sounds like a story unto
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itself. Nibe invite him on afterwards. Let's I want to talk about you.
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How did all this start for you? How from the Army to Iraq
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to yeah, well, I believe it all started for me as a as
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a child with I think back on trauma since this is a trauma podcast,
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And the first experience I remember of trauma was in the third grade when I
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was writing a story. Our teacher, missus Body, had the whole class
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write a story from a bird's eye view. It was a one paragraph story
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in the third grade, as a big deal. And I sat down and
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I was writing, and I was writing, and I remember all that my
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class mights came around me because I just kept writing one page onto the back
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like it's like everybody was cheering me on, you know. And we got
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done and it was time to read our stories. And I started reading my
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story and not even halfway through, missus Body cut me off and she said,
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that's the wrong perspective. It's supposed to be bird's eye view. Incorrect.
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You get a zero. And that was I hate to say it.
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All the experiences, you know, from when I was in Iraq as an
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infantryman, through my life, my brother went to prison, my mother married
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a guy in prison. There's been a lot, but that one really has
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stuck with me as not being good enough and always doing things wrong, and
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so I kept writing, but it was always the secret. And so here
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recently, you know, I started a book about fifteen sixteen years ago after
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I got done with my second tour in Iraq and I got out of the
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military, and I was just spinning in alcoholic drug induced circles, and I
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just sat down in this cabin in Costa Rica and I just started writing and
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writing and writing, and two journals later, I had the first draft of
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what came to be my book. And so since then it's been this journey
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of a little bit of sobriety, back relapsing, drinking and drugging. Let
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me let me pose you for a second there. I don't want to get
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to that, but that that story of that teacher doing that is really intense.
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It reminds me of an experience I had with art actually. But yeah,
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I can feel that you're not good enough, you know, and you're
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so into it. You're writing and you're writing, and you're like in your
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zone and all these people are around you because they can feel it and see
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it too. And then someone comes up. So how did things lead you
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into the service? Man? I'm so glad, you commented, on that
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because that really does make an imped on my art today. You know,
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I have people who tell me you're a musician, you're an artist this,
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and then I'm like, no, I'm not. I'm a practical man.
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Because still that weighs on me. But yeah, it led me into the
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service because I was getting ready to graduate high school in Seward, Alaska,
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and I had nothing going for me, and my mother was always talking very
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highly of men in uniform and all of the military or all of the men
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on my mother's side of the family served in the military, and so you
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know, like I mentioned, my brother was in prison at the time.
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My mother was married to a guy in prison for life. And I was
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like, I just need to get out of here and start somewhere new and
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build some confidence and to quit drinking and just freaking being so crazy. You
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know, I thought I was going to end up in prison. So where
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was you going? I don't know, Okay, yeah, I didn't know
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at the time. I mean I came to learn later that he had lived
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basically in the woods outside of Corvallis Bend, Oregon area for like twenty years,
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so he was kind of a allless guy. I guess what you'd call
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it. So, yeah, we didn't talk during that time. I didn't
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meet him until I was twenty five. But so I joined the army.
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You know, five days or three days after high school, I shipped out
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and I was training in Fort Benning, Georgia, and then Boom. I
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was in Italy and within three months of being there, we were parachuting into
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northern Iraq and then the journey began. What happened, oh, just you
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know, we were basically the uh we were the patrolling guys. You know,
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we were always in front of everybody, patrolled door to door, patrolling
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the streets, that inn ambushes, getting in fights and things that were very
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less than honorable fights meanings fights or gunfights. No gunfights. Ask you know,
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they blow us up and next you know, we're shooting at each other
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and and that deal. So and so that led to more experiences of not
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so much pride, which I had hoped to join and receive or earn.
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It was more of Boom. Now out of the army four and a half
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years later, have terrorized people, innocent people in their homes. I have
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a divorce under my belt, and I'm still an alcoholic who's depressed, and
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so it didn't do for me what I had hoped it did. Wow.
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Wow, When when you were in the service, what was that like for
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you? I mean, aside from the I mean it sounds horrific. Mm
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hmm. Did you you thrive in the camaraderie? Did you? Yeah?
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Definitely. You know. I'm glad you bring that up, because it's easy
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for me, speaking of trauma, to look at all that negative. But
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the truth is that it did so much good for me joining the army because
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I had no structure before. I really had no discipline, and I had
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never really known a tight brotherhood like I did while I was there, and
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so it did so much for those aspects of me and to give me some
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purpose. And so when I got out, after I got through some of
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those different challenges, I was able and still today like wake up at a
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certain time, make my bed, go to work, you know, get
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those those regimes, if you will, in took place. So it did
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a lot of good man. So you did you were in there four years?
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Yeah, two tours in Iraq. What happens when you get out?
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Where do you go? How are you? Yeah? Yeah, I got
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out in from Fort camble Kentucky, and you know I was. I returned
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from my rack two weeks prior, so boom, I'm back. I'm on
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the street and I'm alone, and I remember nobody would answer my text or
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my calls. I was like, so, I didn't know what to do,
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where to go. I had money in the bank, and I just
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started driving from for Camble, Kentucky west to visit my mother in Arizona.
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We went on a road trip together, and then I returned to Alaska,
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where I tried to get into a healthy rhythm, like find a job,
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go to ant school, but I dropped out of all those things because I
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was just drinking and smoking bod every day. That finally, thankfully, my
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family was like, we need to go to Hawaii, and they brought me
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to Hawaii. I stayed there for a few weeks before I bought a one
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way ticket to Belize, and then I spent the next year in Belize,
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Guatemala, and Costa Rica, where I started kind of rebuilding, not even
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rebuilding, building some confidence and love for myself and practicing yoga and meditation and
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being sober and learning Spanish, and so it was. If it wasn't for
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that just kind of spontaneous one way ticket down south Man. I don't know
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where I'd be that changed everything? Was it was it like an intervention.
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Did your family say, dude, you need to clean up or what was
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it that helped you say I need to get my act together. Yeah,
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that's a good question. I don't think there was anything that said I need
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to get my act together. It was my family at that point. They
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had witnessed what was going on, and they were planning a family reunion in
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Hawaii and I was like, oh, I can't go. I'm too busy
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here. You know, I wasn't doing anything. And they ended up getting
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me really drunk and bought a plane ticket with me, and then I was
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committed. And when I got down there, it was just like, you
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know, winter in Alaska can be rough, and all of a sudden,
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I why and I'm like, oh my gosh, eating healthy. And then
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it re sparked that, oh yeah, I joined the military because I wanted
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to travel. I have money, I can travel. So it just kept
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me going. And yeah, that was about it. So talk to us
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about the the genesis of this book and what's it? What's it called?
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The book is titled Warflower a true story of family, service and life in
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Alaska and gosh, my wife is so much better at doing the elevator pitch
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Man, Well, we have have to be a thirty second thing. But
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it's basically about the events that led to me joining the army. Me it's
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broken in two sections, two parts, and so the first part has boom,
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We're in Italy, we're packing our rucksacks, we're getting ready to jump
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into Iraq. And then we're in Iraq and the things that happened there,
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and then those chapters are broken apart with some really quiet nature based moments in
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Alaska, and then it goes back into war and so it goes back and
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forth like that for about half the book, and then part two is me
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getting out of the army, the day I get out and that road trip
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that I go on with my mom, and it's a lot of mental and
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kind of trying to rebuild love for my country by traveling, and those little
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encounters with the way and the person at the gas station sell me cigarettes,
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and the loneliness and fear before and during the military, and then the loneliness
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after and so and then the epilogue or yeah, epilogue is today, you
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know, So it ends kind of on like a dang that's depressing, like
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what happened? But then there's the epilogue, which is all these things have
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happened, and now I'm here today and I'm just so lucky to have the
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life I have. At what point did you sit down to begin writing the
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book? And when you sat down to write, did you say, I'm
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writing a book about such and such? No, no, no way.
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Yeah. I think if I were to do it again, maybe i'd outline
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it. But I needed to do that. And you know, I was
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house sitting a place in Costa Rica, out in the jungle by myself,
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and I just I had this welling up of emotion that it didn't matter how
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much physical labor I did, it was still there. And so talk about
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this and what emotion? What kind of emotion? I think there was just
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so much guilt and shame and fear of going to sleep because of nightmares,
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and then looking even deeper back to feelings of abandonment from my mother who chose
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the murder in prison, my brother who chose to be in gangs, and
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in my country because I felt like they didn't care about what I had done,
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about what my soul, my comrades had done, and so really I
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just hated myself. I hated it felt like I hated everybody. I didn't
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trust anyone because of all those those experiences, and so I was just isolated,
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because of the fear that every human that entered my life seemed to carry
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of Oh God, you're gonna hurt me again. Are you a good guy?
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Are you a bad guy? You know? So those are some of
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the emotions that I tried to numb. At that point. I wasn't drinking
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much, but I just smoked bud all day, and I'd tell myself,
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Oh, it's because I had nightmares, you know. But then I'd wake
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up in the morning and smoke about all day. So it's like it became
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an habitual thing. So so those were some of the emotions I was trying
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to hide from. How did you work through and how are you working through?
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All of these emotions? Now? Gosh. At that point it was
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starting to write. I didn't know what I was writing. Cut it out,
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I didn't know what I was writing. I just knew that I had
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to write, and once I put pen to paper, I was that boy
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in third grade again, who wasn't thinking about anything besides my pen flowing.
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And it gave me such relief that I could sit there for hours and my
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pen would just go and go. And I didn't read any of it until
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later. I just kept writing and writing. And then later on I traveled
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to India, so I put that story away. I returned to Alaska,
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I commercial fished, I started working, I was able to go to EMT
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school, old jobs like it helped me so much to get that out.
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And I was practicing yoga every day at the time, Ashtanga yoga, so
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it was really intense stuff. But so I got it out. And then
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later when I was in India, I did it was like a thirteen day
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silent Buddhist retreat, and you know, that was like going through these forgiveness
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meditations and visualizations of the people that I hated, you know, these guys
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who killed in US people and I'm like, oh my god, I was
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a part of that and working on forgiving them, forgiving myself, telling myself
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it wasn't my fault. And then I got on the computer again and I
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was like, I'm going to just start writing an email to myself and that
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lasted for a couple of years, just writing and writing and writing, and
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then later on I hate to keep going. I finally got those journals out
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and I was about to start typing them to add them to that story,
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and they were basically the same story. The one that I wrote in Costa
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Rica was very vulgar and full of finger pointings and this and that. You
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know, I was so full of rage at the time. The one later
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was a lot less violent, just the language and the finger pointing. It
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was more of just like an observer's view of what was happening. And so
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I kept working on that when I got rid of those old ones. And
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still today, you know, the question being what do I do. I
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grow a lot of food. I write, so I work with my hands
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in the dirt. I try to write on a regular basis. I play
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music and sing and that gets some of that out of there. I try
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to be a good member of my community. I don't use any drugs and
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alcohol anymore, thankfully. And yeah, man, I just work on my
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present moment awareness, you know. I just remind everyone. I'm speaking with
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Robert Stark. His book is called Warflower. I want to take a moment
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just to thank our sponsors. All right, we're back with Bob Dude.
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You are You're a writer, You're a dark of course you are. What
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what do we what does the culture need to hear about people like yourself who've
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gone to war and are coming back. I mean sadly to say we hear
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this right, this is not new. But what are we not hearing?
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What are we not getting? If I had the answer to that, I
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think I'd be well known on all the news platforms and a millionaire. But
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I do think a lot of it is is understanding that most I don't want
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to generalize that many of the soldiers who are returning from war zones, or
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even not, they and we all need a little more than just a veteran's
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day. We don't need the parades. We don't need, you know,
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the people holding flags and having us marching. We don't need to sit at
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the legion and tell stories. I think what we need is to come back
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into our societies with a purpose similar to what we had, and we can
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use that determination and that grit and that discipline for stead purpose. But it's
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so hard because when we get out it's so wide open. It's like,
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oh, you got money for college, but you've got all this violence that
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you've gone through and that you still see people like and so you know,
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I wish there were, as they say in the healthcare world, like a
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warm handoff. And I know they're doing some of those things today, but
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you know, to be someone there to greet the soldier who gets out and
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have a team of people that are like, here, let me help you
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with this and that, and and yeah, that we did go through some
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violent stuff. Man. I think people see that on the movies and they
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think like, oh, yeah, that happened to whatever that Chris Kyle.
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But it's just for the snipers or it's just the rangers. Man. There
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were you know, girls who were supply sergeants who were doing patrols that were
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getting blown up. It's like, man, there was so much violence every
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day and it's hard to just like shake it off. So so yeah,
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for the families, it's not to keep rambling. But for the families,
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it's like me, you know, I have a hard time. My brother
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was in prison, and it's very very difficult for me to give him the
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space to be angry, to be sad, to be depressed, to be
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all those things. Because I want to fix him. I want to make
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him happy. Come on, man, And I think that's a lot of
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what the culture wants to do is we want to give you the medicine,
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we want to give you the counselor, and we don't want to give you
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the space and time that it may take you to start a healthy routine of
24:32
daily existence. So you're now, as I read in your bio, in
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rural Alaska, off grid. You've got a family, yes, and you
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have Are you married? I am? Or your partner? Okay? How
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did you your new partner? I met her? She was working at a
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are in Homer, Alaska. We're on the Keyenye Peninsula. She was working
25:03
at a bakery there and I met her. I met her there. Okay,
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and you have two young kids yep, two daughters. Awesome. Yeah.
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And so you had this farm yep? So how did you acquire this?
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Yeah? So back in twenty twelve, I came back to Alaska after
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I was in college. I went to an Evergreen State college, a liberal
25:33
arts college that changed my life completely, But either way, I returned home.
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I still had some money saved and I wanted to buy a piece of
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property because I had the dream of a family farm, and where I was
25:48
living in Seward, Alaska, there wasn't much for property. You could buy,
25:53
like a quarter acre, but it was all really expensive. It wasn't
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good soil, not good sunlight, blah blah blah. And I was looking
26:00
around the peninsula because I love it on the peninsula, and I found this
26:04
unfinished house on twenty acres off grid. So I say, rural, we
26:11
are on the road system, but if you were to drive out here,
26:15
you'd think does anybody live out here? And so, you know, the
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price was right. At the time, I was able to do for sale
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by owner owner financing, so I put the money down and in twenty twelve
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moved out here with my brother and we started the journey of learning how to
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build and maintain a house and start a farm. And so it's been a
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flow going process. And I tell my wife all the time that, you
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know, before she came into the picture, I didn't have any solar panels,
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I didn't have any batteries. I was just a guy with a headlamp,
26:56
a couple of candles, and it was quiet out here here. When
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I asked her to marry me, she said, yeah, only if we
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get a refrigerator. Oh my god, so you said, this is you're
27:18
new to podcasts, this is oh yeah, what do you want? Who's
27:26
the book for? First and foremost, the book was for me, And
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now I've been so surprised, man, because ever since it's come out,
27:40
you know, I've had ninety plus year old women reading it and commenting to
27:47
me on how much it helped them to understand the men in their life and
27:52
the boys and their emotions. And then they've bought it for there like a
27:59
ninety year old friends, and then I've had twenty and down sixteen. I
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had my a fourteen, you know, thirteen year old niece read it and
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she said, you know, similar things. Oh my god, I can't
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believe that our family has done all this stuff, and that you, my
28:19
happy uncle, so she calls me, has been through this stuff. And
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so you know, I think more than anyone, it would be for for
28:30
veterans and their families, anyone who's been touched by people going to war and
28:37
what they've gone through. But I think it could also very much be for
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like my counselor who read it and told me, oh my god, this
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has helped me to understand more of what all of you vets don't talk about.
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And so I don't mean to say it's like this broad book, but
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when I was told to put it into like this genre, like what's the
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oddience, it's really hard for me to narrow down the audience. So you've
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been through a hell of a lot in your life. You've been through what
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I think a lot of people would say a lot of traumatic experiences. Was
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that difficult for you to say, to recognize, to own this was traumatic?
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To me? This what was talk about? That? What a great
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question. Yeah, certainly. I was diagnosed with post traumatic stress disorder maybe
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ten years ago, eight years ago, I don't remember when. And I
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was seeing it as a conspiracy at the time. I saw it as the
29:55
government is going to just give me this check and diagnose me and try to
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give me medication just so I would isolate and shut up and never tell anybody
30:08
about things that happened. And so that's what I did. I did that
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for years, and then I ended up getting a counselor, and man,
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bless this lady's heart. I got her. Her name was Kim down here
30:26
in the Milchick area, and she really convinced me. She told me,
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you know, thank god her husband was an AA and I was not.
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I was a non drinker at the time, but I wasn't in any kind
30:44
of recovery or anything like that. And she asked me to tell her one
30:51
story. And I told her one story. And it wasn't even like the
30:56
most violent story. It's just one story I thought, was like a normal
31:00
everyday thing when we were over there, and she she looked at me afterwards
31:06
with tears in her eyes and she said, Bob, if the ordinary American
31:12
would have gone through something like that, you know how that would affect them.
31:18
She said. All of you guys come back from Vietnam, Korea,
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Iraq, Afghanistan, Grenada, all these places, and you have so many
31:27
stories just like that one. But you know what all of you veterans say.
31:32
I was like, what's that, Kim? She said, you guys
31:34
all say that the other guy had at worst help the other guy help him.
31:41
And the sooner you accept that you've got posted my extress disorder, the
31:48
easier your life's going to be. And I remember going home from that being
31:52
like, she doesn't know what she's talking about. I don't have no PTSD,
31:55
you know, just like and then over the coming week, because I
32:00
started really ruminating on that and looking at some of those experiences that I had
32:06
written down and realizing, you know, maybe all these symptoms that I've got
32:13
are from those experiences. I'm not just like damaged goods. Like, there's
32:20
a reason that I am acting in this way. And so that really was
32:23
the beginning of me starting to recognize some of those triggers that were coming some
32:30
of my actions. Ways to have better self care, if that's what we
32:35
call it, and to maintain a healthy mind, body and connection with my
32:40
spiritual guide, whatever you want to say, And those have helped me tremendously.
32:50
But it took accepting Yeah, yeah, man, you are so inspiring,
32:57
Bob. Really you are? Now, yeah you are? Yeah,
33:02
you're just a little bit really no, it's it's it's incredible to listen to
33:10
what you've been through and to how you worked through it. And obviously it
33:16
wasn't easy, and I don't expect it to be at all, but I
33:22
think it takes a lot of guts to come on a podcast like this and
33:30
and share your guts, share your soul, and even to write about it,
33:36
you know, I really appreciate it. I think you're big, You're
33:39
welcome. I think you're gonna have a big impact on a lot of people,
33:43
you know, and I'd love to have you back, you know,
33:47
so hopefully this won't be your first time on a podcast. You definitely come
33:52
back on this one. Where can people learn about the book? My face
34:00
family has a website, and so if anybody's interested in reading our our blogs,
34:06
if you will, newsletter, whatever you want to call it, they
34:09
can go on our website and it's Secret Garden Alaska dot org and they can
34:15
buy the book from there. They can go on good Reads or Amazon look
34:22
at the book and read about it. They could order it from different small
34:28
Alaskan companies bookstores and support the little guy. But yeah, that's where they
34:35
can they can find out about that. Okay, we'll have it lead here
34:39
at the show, not at the Trauma Therapists podcast dot com. The book
34:43
is Warflower, a true story of family, service and life in Alaska.
34:50
So what's what's next for you? Well, my neighbor just stopped by with
34:54
tears in his eyes and told me he needs help putting in sono tubes because
35:00
he had a heart attack and you can't really do it. And this is
35:02
a tough guy, and so I'm gonna get off of here. I'm gonna
35:07
go split a little bit more wood to help me whoof, and then I'm
35:12
gonna go to his house and help them with that. What are tubes?
35:15
Tubes are you know what a lot of foundations. Instead of like having a
35:20
concrete slab, it's like a four inch or eight inch tube that you fill
35:24
with concrete and then you put you know, your beams on that. How
35:29
you build right house? Awesome? Alright, brother, well man, I
35:35
really appreciate you coming on here. It's uh, it's great to talk to
35:39
you. I'd love to have you back. Very nice to talk to you.
35:43
Thank you so much. You're welcome you well, bye guy. They
36:01
happen you looking