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Fostering Strong Relationships with Luke Parker- CR110 · Career Relaunch®

0:00
Luke: If you expect something to happen straight away,
0:02
Luke: then you're thinking in a transactional networking mindset,
0:05
Luke: which is not a healthy mindset.
0:07
Luke: Networking is a long game.
0:09
Luke: And so the earlier you can connect with someone and the more that you can keep that
0:13
Luke: engagement going, the better.
0:16
Joseph: Welcome to the Career Relaunch® podcast, where my mission is to inspire you to pursue
0:20
Joseph: more meaningful work. My name is Joseph Liu, and I'm here to help you gain the clarity,
0:24
Joseph: confidence, and courage to overcome the challenges of reinventing your career so you
0:29
Joseph: can truly enjoy your professional life.
0:31
Joseph: In each episode, I feature people who have stepped off the beaten path to reinvent their
0:35
Joseph: careers. We talk through their unique personal journeys,
0:37
Joseph: the challenges they overcame and the lessons they learned along the way. To help you
0:41
Joseph: understand what it takes to relaunch your own career.
0:44
Joseph: Today, my guest is going to share his story of going from serving in the British Army to
0:48
Joseph: working at Google Cloud.
0:50
Joseph: We'll discuss how professional relationships can open doors in your career and the
0:54
Joseph: importance of self-marketing during professional transitions.
0:57
Joseph: Afterwards, during today's mental fuel.
0:59
Joseph: I'll share my thoughts on maintaining strong relationships in your career and life.
1:08
Joseph: Today, I'm speaking with Luke Parker, a delivery executive at Google Cloud,
1:11
Joseph: where he manages complex airgapped programs for strategic clients.
1:15
Joseph: A former British Army officer with over 11 years of experience,
1:19
Joseph: Luke brings a unique perspective on leadership,
1:21
Joseph: having transitioned from commanding Royal Engineers,
1:24
Joseph: explosive ordnance disposal and search teams to driving digital transformation in the
1:29
Joseph: public sector. Beyond his role at Google, Luke is a DataIQ top 100 influencer and the
1:35
Joseph: co-founder of Antebellum Angels, a network investing in early stage defense
1:39
Joseph: technologies. He also holds a master's in geospatial intelligence and is a chartered
1:44
Joseph: engineer. Now, I first crossed paths with Luke when I heard him speak on a career
1:48
Joseph: change panel that followed a talk I gave at Warwick Business School,
1:52
Joseph: where he's completing his executive MBA.
1:54
Joseph: I decided to invite him to come on to the show because I thought his comments on the
1:57
Joseph: panel really stood out as being very thoughtful and practical,
2:01
Joseph: and his perspectives of shifting from the military to the tech sector can be useful to
2:06
Joseph: anyone who is considering a major career pivot,
2:09
Joseph: but is not exactly sure how to lay the groundwork for your transition.
2:13
Joseph: You can get all the show notes from today's conversation at careerrelaunch.net/110. Luke
2:19
Joseph: spoke with me from London.
2:23
Joseph: Hello, Luke, and welcome to the Career Relaunch® podcast.
2:26
Joseph: It's great to have you on the show.
2:27
Luke: Hey, it's great to be here.
2:29
Luke: Joseph. Thank you for inviting me.
2:31
Joseph: Before we get into your whole career history, I'd love to start off by just finding out
2:35
Joseph: what you have been focused on and what's been keeping you busy in both your professional
2:39
Joseph: life and also your personal life. Just to get us started.
2:42
Luke: My day job. I am a delivery leader at Google Cloud and that keeps you quite busy on its
2:50
Luke: own. I also am finishing off my executive MBA at Warwick Business School currently.
2:56
Luke: And so my thesis has been submitted in the next 4 to 5 weeks.
3:01
Luke: So every spare moment I'm not working, I'm diligently typing to hit the required
3:07
Luke: word count. On top of that, I've got a two year old.
3:11
Luke: For those parents in the listenership that have a two year old,
3:15
Luke: you know that that's a full time job in itself.
3:17
Luke: But I have a fantastic wife that helps there or does most of the work.
3:21
Joseph: Now, I should also mention that you and I first crossed paths at Warwick Business
3:25
Joseph: School, and I was doing a workshop on personal branding.
3:28
Joseph: I heard you on a career change panel that followed my workshop,
3:33
Joseph: and I know that you did talk a little bit at the time about what a.
3:36
Joseph: I guess your official title is Delivery Executive at Google Cloud.
3:40
Joseph: Could you just give a glimpse into exactly what that means to somebody who maybe isn't
3:45
Joseph: familiar with Google Cloud, or even what a delivery executive does.
3:51
Luke: At Google Cloud, a delivery executive leads multifaceted teams delivering the most
3:58
Luke: complex cloud transformation programs.
4:01
Luke: And so although the term has executive, you are not an executive in the formal sense,
4:07
Luke: but it's a senior delivery role that brings together multiple teams for lighthouse
4:12
Luke: customers.
4:14
Joseph: Great. Now, you haven't always been at Google Cloud,
4:17
Joseph: and I would love to just go back in time a little bit.
4:20
Joseph: And first of all, just get a sense of where you grew up,
4:24
Joseph: where you're from, maybe a little bit about your upbringing and your childhood.
4:27
Joseph: And then after that, we can talk about your time in the British Army.
4:31
Luke: I am from Rotherham in South Yorkshire, which is in the north of England.
4:37
Luke: I lived there until I was about 16, so I had a very good upbringing.
4:42
Luke: South Yorkshire is, I would say, quite a deprived part of the UK.
4:48
Luke: The history of the area.
4:50
Luke: It used to be quite an industrialised steel and mining part of the UK,
4:54
Luke: which suffered a lot through mining and steelworks shutdowns.
4:59
Luke: But I think I was relatively insulated from that.
5:01
Luke: I went to a great school at 16.
5:04
Luke: I decided that I was going to join the Army, the British Army.
5:08
Joseph: And how did you come to that decision, Luke?
5:11
Joseph: Because that's a big decision to move into the military versus,
5:14
Joseph: I suppose, continuing on in your education more formally.
5:18
Luke: My great grandfather was a soldier in World War II,
5:23
Luke: and I had his medals and his pictures.
5:27
Luke: I didn't really ever get to talk to him about his experiences.
5:30
Luke: I was too young by the time he passed away, but I was always really in awe of the
5:34
Luke: pictures and the medals that he had.
5:37
Luke: And I started reading about World War Two, and since then,
5:42
Luke: no one in my family has been part of the armed forces.
5:46
Luke: However, I think we're a family of service.
5:49
Luke: My uncle and my sister are in the police force.
5:54
Luke: My mum is part of the NHS and so I think service kind of runs in our family and giving
6:01
Luke: back. And I saw my kind of call to arms as joining the British Army.
6:10
Joseph: And I understand you would eventually go to the Royal Military Academy,
6:13
Joseph: Sandhurst. How do you enlist in the Army?
6:16
Joseph: What's that selection process like?
6:19
Luke: There's multiple routes into the army.
6:22
Luke: The first way you normally go to a recruitment office and you do an aptitude
6:27
Luke: test, which gives you options for what you can consider.
6:31
Luke: And I was lucky enough that my options enabled me to become an officer or to apply
6:37
Luke: to become an officer directly.
6:40
Luke: There's two routes in as a director, as an officer,
6:43
Luke: or as a soldier. I was presented with the offer to become a,
6:49
Luke: what they call an army bursar at 16.
6:51
Luke: If you pass the selection, they will pay you a small amount to complete
6:56
Luke: your studies up until 18.
6:58
Luke: So finish your A-levels and you go for a weekend and you have a bunch of tests,
7:03
Luke: physical tests, running assault course leadership tests which involve problem
7:09
Luke: solving. It's all about teamwork and showing leadership potential at that young age.
7:15
Luke: I finished that, I passed, I was given the recommendation that I should
7:19
Luke: become an officer and go to Sandhurst for training when I was of age,
7:23
Luke: which is either 18 or onwards, and I got to 18 so I finished my A-levels and
7:31
Luke: then the Army reached out again and said, we'd actually like to offer you a scholarship
7:35
Luke: and you can go to university and do a bachelor's degree in a subject of your
7:40
Luke: choice. And as long as you get a 2:1, you can proceed to Sandhurst.
7:45
Joseph: I know that you also spent a year doing what I understand is infantry training.
7:51
Joseph: Now, I'm not super familiar with how things work in the military or the army.
7:54
Joseph: I probably wouldn't last more than a few hours in any sort of training myself in the
7:59
Joseph: military. Can you just give a glimpse into that world?
8:04
Joseph: And also the contrast between being out there,
8:07
Joseph: doing that sort of military training and then being back in the classroom and how you
8:11
Joseph: flipped back and forth between the two.
8:14
Luke: After I finished my degree, I went to Sandhurst.
8:17
Luke: Sandhurst was established after the Second World War,
8:20
Luke: and it's a 44 week training course to regular officers and reserves and international
8:27
Luke: personnel as well. It takes you from a civilian with just the potential leadership
8:34
Luke: attributes into a British Army second lieutenant,
8:39
Luke: which is a junior officer.
8:41
Luke: Over that time, and I wasn't in the infantry,
8:45
Luke: but they use that as the training vehicle in that it takes someone down to the rawest form
8:50
Luke: of leadership there is, which is commanding a small team of up to
8:57
Luke: 3035 soldiers in arduous, strenuous situations where discipline and
9:05
Luke: courage is paramount, is what I believe to be one of the best ways
9:10
Luke: to train leaders who subsequently want to go and serve in all different parts of the army,
9:16
Luke: but they all go through this same training.
9:18
Luke: And so you are a soldier first and a leader first in that sense.
9:25
Joseph: And it sounds like in the military, which isn't that dissimilar,
9:30
Joseph: although it's a very different world, isn't that dissimilar from any career path
9:33
Joseph: where you've got to make a decision about where you want to head. And as you just
9:36
Joseph: mentioned, there's a lot of different options. How did you go about figuring out
9:40
Joseph: where to take yourself?
9:43
Joseph: I don't know to what extent you had a choice,
9:45
Joseph: but it sounds like you do have some say in which direction to go,
9:48
Joseph: and I'd be curious to hear how you went through that thought process of eventually
9:52
Joseph: shifting toward engineering.
9:54
Luke: It's split into three terms, and at the end of the first term,
9:58
Luke: you give a bunch of choices that you would be interested in going into when you finish.
10:04
Luke: And at the time, I was really interested in joining the Yorkshire Regiment,
10:09
Luke: which is a infantry regiment, and the other choices were engineers,
10:15
Luke: and I think it was artillery.
10:18
Luke: And after the first term had completed and you spend,
10:23
Luke: you know, multiple weeks out in a ditch, rained on,
10:28
Luke: hungry, tired, you know, your feet hurt.
10:31
Luke: I was like, you know, is this what I want to do?
10:35
Luke: My internal monologue was, I don't think you would be happy in this role
10:40
Luke: for long. So I started looking.
10:42
Luke: What else? My second choice was the Royal Engineers. I've always been a very hands on
10:47
Luke: practical person, and the Royal Engineers have such a breadth of different specialties
10:52
Luke: that you can go into, whether that's armoured engineering.
10:56
Luke: So tractors and diggers and bridge layers all the way to being airborne or commando or bomb
11:03
Luke: disposal or a diver or light role.
11:07
Luke: So there's all sorts of different flavours of combat engineer.
11:10
Luke: And I thought that that would give me a fantastic breadth of experience,
11:14
Luke: which if I became disenfranchised with a part of the engineers,
11:19
Luke: you could always reroll into a different part of engineering.
11:23
Luke: So it offered a really flexible career for the long haul.
11:28
Joseph: How was that experience overall for you up until this point of being in the military?
11:32
Joseph: And I suppose what's behind my question is trying to get an understanding of whether at
11:37
Joseph: this point you saw yourself remaining in the military as an engineer or like,
11:44
Joseph: at what point did you start to think that this was maybe just the beginning of
11:48
Joseph: something else?
11:50
Luke: When I first commissioned, I truly believed that I was going to be a
11:54
Luke: career soldier. A career for an officer spans normally between 18 and 25 years or so,
12:02
Luke: and I thought I was in it for the long haul, especially at the start,
12:05
Luke: because you've come out of 44 weeks of hard graft.
12:08
Luke: I don't think you would last that 44 weeks if you were just in it for like,
12:13
Luke: oh, I'm just here for a couple of years.
12:16
Joseph: What made you deviate from that path?
12:19
Joseph: And my understanding, when we last spoke before we started
12:21
Joseph: recording was that it's actually probably the most common path to just stay in the Army.
12:27
Joseph: So I'd be curious, do you remember the moment that triggered you to then deviate from that
12:32
Joseph: path?
12:34
Luke: I think it was maybe, I would say, starting to get into,
12:38
Luke: say, 6 to 8 years in. So my early career was great.
12:42
Luke: I loved being at 101. I was a royal engineer search advisor.
12:47
Luke: That person leads a team in trying to locate bombs and IEDs.
12:53
Luke: I left there and I joined a training regiment and I led what's called instructor troop.
12:58
Luke: So this troop selects the instructors across the Corps,
13:01
Luke: which is arguably one of the most important jobs,
13:03
Luke: being an instructor in the Corps, because you're bringing the next generation
13:07
Luke: of soldiers through. I then was sent to do a master's degree in geospatial intelligence,
13:14
Luke: and I started to get a sense of a more technical route and the story that
13:24
Luke: joined the two together.
13:26
Luke: I started to notice when I was in EOD was finding bombs and IEDs as a pattern in space
13:33
Luke: and time. And it's the linkage between psychology and ground and capability.
13:40
Luke: And that means that you can use analytics to determine where is more likely to be a bomb.
13:50
Luke: I started to hone this skill in, and it started to get me interested in the
13:55
Luke: wider world of analytics and data.
13:58
Luke: That started to get me thinking about what might be out there.
14:03
Joseph: I think this happens sometimes, Luke, where you're in a particular field and
14:07
Joseph: you start to get an inkling that there might be something else out there.
14:12
Joseph: Was there anything in particular that then convinced you that you need more proactively
14:18
Joseph: explore different paths, perhaps outside of the military?
14:22
Joseph: And I'm just going to float out.
14:24
Joseph: One of the things that you mentioned to me in our last conversation was that I know that
14:27
Joseph: you were doing a lot of personal writing when you were in the military,
14:30
Joseph: so I'd be curious to hear what role that played and also just how you made the choice
14:33
Joseph: to explore something outside of the military.
14:36
Luke: My thesis for my master's was all about spatial patterns of measles outbreak in the
14:44
Luke: UK, and how that was linked to social deprivation around the UK.
14:48
Luke: And I finished that about six months before the first Covid cases hit the UK.
14:54
Luke: And this led to a really interesting opportunity where I asked to be sent UK
14:58
Luke: government to help with Covid response and analytics.
15:04
Luke: That was a really tough 12 to 18 months as most people that lived through that can
15:09
Luke: attest to. For so many reasons.
15:12
Luke: But the work that I did there got me recognition.
15:17
Luke: The analytical processes that I put in place led to me being put on an industry list,
15:23
Luke: which is called the data IQ 100, which is the 100 most influential people in
15:28
Luke: the UK for data and analytics.
15:31
Luke: And that was the first year that someone in the military had been put on that list.
15:36
Luke: But I would find interesting problems that I could solve with geospatial intelligence.
15:42
Luke: And one of them was how we could increase our carbon sequestration across defense estates.
15:49
Luke: We created this model, which showed that you could increase about
15:53
Luke: 16% afforestation rates across most of the UK training estates.
15:59
Luke: That was published in a University of Oxford study,
16:03
Luke: which was fantastic. And it also was the start of me really starting to get recognised
16:10
Luke: by people outside of the military.
16:13
Joseph: So it sounds like you managed to drive some visibility for yourself. Part of it was
16:16
Joseph: through being on the industry watch list.
16:18
Joseph: Part of it was people then starting to notice you.
16:20
Joseph: And just to kind of change gears here a little bit as you think now about your
16:24
Joseph: eventual shift into the corporate world, if there was 1 or 2 things that you feel you
16:32
Joseph: did that opened that door for you.
16:35
Joseph: What do you think those were?
16:37
Joseph: As you were making that transition?
16:40
Luke: I think the first one is self-marketing.
16:45
Luke: My personal view is that people in the military,
16:49
Luke: they do not like Self-marketing.
16:52
Luke: However, I'm a huge believer that we make our own luck,
16:55
Luke: and part of that is being able to get over the initial embarrassment you may feel of
17:01
Luke: marketing your own achievements.
17:03
Luke: Sharing what you have done and achieved.
17:05
Luke: And the second part is networking.
17:07
Luke: So I was very lucky in the industry watch list.
17:10
Luke: I got to network with some exceptionally connected people.
17:13
Luke: But maintaining those connections is hard work,
17:16
Luke: and you just never know where a connection will bring you in the future.
17:21
Luke: I think that that was from my point of view, the pivot to get me out of defense.
17:28
Luke: I promoted to the rank of major and they kind of rules of promotion.
17:34
Luke: Once you hit major, it's unlikely that you will get a chance to be considered for the
17:39
Luke: next rank, which is a lieutenant colonel for 6 to 7 years.
17:44
Luke: And for me, that was a little bit too slow.
17:48
Luke: I would see that as a stagnation.
17:50
Luke: And so I started having a look outside and seeing what else was there.
17:55
Luke: My thing was I wanted to work in technology.
17:57
Luke: So I reached out to multiple people across technology that I'd met over the last few
18:02
Luke: years, but also were people who had also served in the military.
18:06
Luke: So finding that mutual community group that you share values with,
18:12
Luke: the chances are you already share a bond with that person through the experiences that
18:16
Luke: you've jointly had, even if you didn't serve directly with that person.
18:19
Luke: And they seem to be very amenable to helping one another out.
18:24
Joseph: You've mentioned a few things there. I'd love to pick up on this idea of networking and
18:28
Joseph: also maintaining connections.
18:29
Joseph: And one of the questions I often get from clients and audience members,
18:33
Joseph: Luke, is I'm reaching out to people and two questions slash concerns come up and I'd be
18:39
Joseph: curious to hear your thoughts on this. One is,
18:41
Joseph: what do you say when you're reaching out to these people?
18:44
Joseph: And the second question is around, I've met this person.
18:49
Joseph: Nothing's materialized.
18:50
Joseph: First of all, how do you reach out and then how did you manage what happened afterwards,
18:55
Joseph: especially if what happened afterwards was nothing?
18:57
Joseph: How did you think about that in the context of networking?
19:02
Luke: I was reluctant initially to start reaching out cold to people.
19:07
Luke: What I started with was posting about things that I was interested in,
19:12
Luke: and actually you find that you get engagement.
19:14
Luke: So if someone likes your post and then you connect with them or they comment on your
19:18
Luke: post and then you connect with them, the chances are that they're going to accept
19:23
Luke: the connection because they've seen what you're interested in.
19:26
Luke: So I think part of it is be happy.
19:28
Luke: Whatever platform that you're interested in writing about is start speaking about the
19:34
Luke: things that interest you and everyone.
19:37
Luke: And I mean everyone has something that would be interesting to talk about.
19:43
Luke: Doesn't have to be what you're doing currently. It could be something completely
19:46
Luke: different. But if there's something that you have a passion for,
19:49
Luke: that you have an opinion on, start posting about it and then connect with
19:53
Luke: those people. You know, if someone doesn't want to connect with you,
19:56
Luke: whether that be LinkedIn or then I would be looking at in-person events.
20:01
Luke: I've been told recently that I was old school,
20:04
Luke: but I always carry cards with me.
20:06
Joseph: I do too.
20:07
Luke: I've come away from conferences with, say, like 30 cards.
20:09
Luke: I've not done it right away, but the next day I'll go through them and
20:12
Luke: have a look and make sure that I've reached out.
20:15
Joseph: Yeah, I think I handed you a card when we first met,
20:17
Joseph: and I'm a big fan of business cards and taking some notes on people and then
20:21
Joseph: following up the next day on those notes.
20:24
Joseph: So that's something that I always recommend people do.
20:27
Joseph: Going back to just the second part of that question is what do people don't respond?
20:31
Joseph: Not even that they don't respond. But let's say you meet with them and nothing comes of
20:35
Joseph: it. You go, you meet, you have a great conversation.
20:37
Joseph: And oftentimes I hear from people, nothing happens after that.
20:41
Joseph: How do you think people should think about the idea that things don't materialize into
20:45
Joseph: something concrete right away?
20:47
Luke: If you expect something to happen straight away,
20:50
Luke: then you're thinking in a transactional networking mindset,
20:53
Luke: which is not a healthy mindset, i.e.
20:55
Luke: I met this person, they should do something for me,
20:58
Luke: networking is a long, long game.
21:01
Luke: And so the earlier you can connect with someone and the more that you can keep that
21:06
Luke: engagement going, the better.
21:08
Luke: What I would say is, what's the phrase don't put down to malice?
21:10
Luke: What can be attributed to incompetence or something like that?
21:14
Luke: I'm not saying people are incompetent. What I'm saying is people are busy.
21:17
Luke: You never know what's happening in someone's life.
21:19
Luke: They may have just missed something. You may have gone to junk.
21:22
Luke: You have no idea. But give it 2 or 3 rolls of the dice.
21:27
Luke: You know, every now and then you send an update after 2 or 3 times if there's nothing
21:31
Luke: there. It's clear that they don't want to talk to you,
21:35
Luke: but the first time they don't respond.
21:37
Luke: It may have been lost. It may have been a really bad day.
21:40
Luke: You just don't know. So I wouldn't put it down to people not wanting to connect.
21:48
Joseph: I think that's a great reminder, I think.
21:50
Joseph: Tom Singer in the ABCs of networking, he says that some people you reach out to are
21:54
Joseph: just not going to respond.
21:55
Joseph: Don't take it personally. It's exactly what you said. You have no idea what's happening
21:58
Joseph: in their life. Just switching gears to the most recent chapter that you're now in as you
22:03
Joseph: shift over to Google, I know that one of the seeds that got planted
22:06
Joseph: was you reached out to vets in Google, as I understand it.
22:09
Joseph: And that's how you one of the ways you got your foot in the door and I'd love to hear
22:13
Joseph: about your transition into Google, how you made that happen.
22:17
Joseph: And then we can talk a little bit about some of the things you're also working on on the
22:21
Joseph: side here.
22:22
Luke: Google has a veterans network.
22:24
Luke: I think a lot of big corporations have veterans networks,
22:28
Luke: and I worked out the head of the Veterans Network where I was,
22:32
Luke: was a chap called Henry Chin.
22:35
Luke: And I reached out to Henry and said that I was interested in Google.
22:39
Luke: I would love to come down and have coffee or just have a look around.
22:43
Luke: And he was really kind and invited me down, showed me around and had a really,
22:48
Luke: really good chat with me and he gave me a few names.
22:51
Luke: So then I followed out to those people and the next guy turned out we'd been in the same
22:55
Luke: unit together, although we didn't cross over. So I was like, hey, can I come down for
22:59
Luke: lunch? So I think I visited maybe three times,
23:01
Luke: three different people.
23:03
Luke: What I would say is that that was a help to me.
23:08
Luke: So meeting those people, understanding their roles was a real help.
23:12
Luke: What it doesn't do is it doesn't guarantee you a route in.
23:16
Luke: You still have to apply like everyone else.
23:18
Luke: You still have to go through the same interviews like everyone else and hit the
23:22
Luke: same standards. It allows you to dial in to the types of roles that you would like to
23:28
Luke: start your pivot with.
23:31
Joseph: Now that you are at Google, can you fill me in on anything that has
23:36
Joseph: surprised you about what it took to get into Google,
23:40
Joseph: or even just life working at Google?
23:44
Luke: I love it, I love working here.
23:46
Luke: I think the people are fantastic.
23:49
Luke: I'm constantly amazed by the level of talent you may have covered in other podcasts about
23:54
Luke: people having imposter syndrome, but when you're dealing with people who are
24:01
Luke: pushing one another because they are at the top of the bell curve for their area,
24:06
Luke: you've got through the process back yourself.
24:09
Luke: It's given me a chance to reflect on what I'm good at.
24:14
Luke: You know, I bring a new perspective.
24:16
Luke: I come from a background that Google doesn't have a huge amount of people that have that
24:20
Luke: experience. And so I bring something to the team dynamic that not many people have.
24:26
Luke: And I think everyone in Google that does that brings something and is valued.
24:31
Joseph: I would love to talk a little bit now, Luke,
24:34
Joseph: about some of the lessons you've learned along the way of your journey.
24:38
Joseph: And I would love to start by, first of all, picking up on something you
24:42
Joseph: just mentioned, which is the idea that you're coming from a non-traditional,
24:46
Joseph: more atypical background.
24:48
Joseph: And combining that with the earlier comment you mentioned about imposter syndrome. And
24:51
Joseph: I'm just curious if somebody's listening to this and maybe they're working in an
24:56
Joseph: organization and they're a bit of an outlier and they feel like they're surrounded by all
25:00
Joseph: these people who are perhaps at least they perceive them to be more skilled,
25:04
Joseph: talented, experienced, whatever.
25:07
Joseph: How would you recommend somebody deal with that?
25:11
Joseph: How have you dealt with that?
25:13
Joseph: If you've felt any of that.
25:15
Luke: The way to win in this world is to be very, very good at a few things and not worry about
25:25
Luke: being good at everything.
25:26
Luke: Be the known person for the thing that makes you the best.
25:32
Luke: And I think too much at the moment.
25:35
Luke: There's a push to be a generalist.
25:37
Luke: And we can take the MBA, for example.
25:40
Luke: It's a very general master's degree, but what it should be used is it should be
25:45
Luke: used to reinforce something that you're already great at.
25:51
Luke: And I was again, super fortunate in that I was given a full scholarship to do my MBA by
25:59
Luke: a charity called Hero Preneurs, which is a defense charity which supports
26:04
Luke: entrepreneurial minded veterans and service leavers and,
26:08
Luke: and also families. So I won this full scholarship and you have to give a pitch and
26:13
Luke: talk about why you. What are you going to do with this opportunity?
26:20
Luke: I used a quote in my pitch and I love this quote and I use it all the time.
26:24
Luke: And the quote is, what stands in the way becomes the way.
26:28
Luke: And find the thing that's holding you back and focus on that.
26:32
Luke: That is your way now. So it doesn't have to be everything but one thing at a time.
26:38
Luke: So for me, I had in my head that I was in the military,
26:42
Luke: and what was going to hold me back was I didn't know enough about business and finance
26:48
Luke: and the corporate pillars that would hold me back in a civilian job.
26:53
Luke: So that became the way and that helped me into Sandhurst.
26:57
Luke: And it also helped me on the way out of the Army into industry.
27:05
Joseph: Another question I had for you, Luke, just going back to one of your earlier
27:08
Joseph: points was this idea of self Self-promoting without overly self-promoting.
27:13
Joseph: And this is a really tricky balance.
27:15
Joseph: I know a lot of people, including me, struggle with.
27:18
Joseph: Can you walk me through how you think about ensuring that you're not bragging about
27:22
Joseph: yourself while also advocating for yourself?
27:27
Joseph: And how can you tell when you're doing too much of it?
27:31
Joseph: And how can you tell when you're doing too little of it?
27:33
Luke: I try and just stick to facts.
27:35
Luke: I think that's the easiest way, you know, if you have one something or if you
27:41
Luke: have published something like saying that you've won something is not embellishing
27:46
Luke: anything, or, you know, if you've published it,
27:48
Luke: say, hey, you know, I've wrote this paper, I'm throwing it out there,
27:51
Luke: let me think, throw stones at it.
27:53
Luke: And I think having maybe an inner circle of people that you trust to give you accurate
28:01
Luke: advice that will tell you if you're going too far and that you listen to those people.
28:09
Joseph: That's great advice. Just be able to have people around you who can honestly and
28:13
Joseph: candidly sense check you without you getting too defensive about it and being able to
28:19
Joseph: receive that feedback.
28:20
Joseph: So important. There's a quote, I'm sure you've heard this quote from Jim
28:23
Joseph: Rohn saying that you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with. So
28:28
Joseph: try to surround yourself, as you mentioned, with the types of people
28:31
Joseph: who are doing the things that you want to be doing. And that's a great place to start and
28:34
Joseph: also a great place to get some feedback.
28:36
Joseph: Speaking of feedback, if we think about our own internal feedback,
28:41
Joseph: as you think about your very interesting career change journey,
28:43
Joseph: if you could go back and have a do over with something along the way of your journey from
28:50
Joseph: the military into the private sector, into Google,
28:53
Joseph: is there anything that comes to mind, like what you might do differently now that
28:57
Joseph: you have the fortune of 2020 hindsight?
29:01
Luke: I think when I heard that I got a guaranteed job,
29:04
Luke: I took my foot off the gas and I chose geography as my bachelor's degree.
29:10
Luke: During my time in the military, I decided that I wanted to become a chartered
29:15
Luke: engineer, but I didn't have an engineering background,
29:18
Luke: so I had to work like super hard to overcome the fact that I didn't.
29:23
Luke: I had to use a lot more practical experience to get me through the process.
29:28
Luke: And when I reflect on that, you know, in my head,
29:31
Luke: because I was going to the military forever, it didn't matter that I had a BSc in
29:36
Luke: geography, but it should have been, I know it should have been civil or
29:39
Luke: mechanical engineering.
29:41
Luke: And I do think about that a lot.
29:45
Luke: It makes me think about what I'm doing now and say,
29:49
Luke: is this thing that you are thinking is guaranteed or you have a role,
29:53
Luke: you have a role now. Luke, are you taking a lazy choice professionally
29:58
Luke: or personally because you are in this role?
30:01
Luke: And if the answer is yes, then that is the thing that's in the way and
30:04
Luke: that becomes the way.
30:06
Joseph: Speaking of continuing to keep pushing yourself and not getting complacent,
30:10
Joseph: Luke, can you wrap us up by telling me a little bit more about Antebellum Angels,
30:15
Joseph: which is a venture you co-founded in 2024, on top of your day job at Google?
30:20
Luke: So when I was on my MBA, I met another veteran called Jake,
30:23
Luke: who is a co-founder of Antebellum Angels, and Jake and I had fell victim to what I call
30:29
Luke: the friends, families and fools rays of a startup.
30:32
Luke: So we both knew a friend who was doing a startup and they'd said,
30:37
Luke: hey, we're raising some money.
30:39
Luke: You're my friend. Do you want to invest in this company that I'm starting up?
30:43
Luke: And these were separate things, but we both did it.
30:46
Luke: And we had no idea what angel investing was.
30:49
Luke: And unsurprisingly, the things that we put money in were didn't go very well.
30:54
Luke: So we were talking about, you know, but it's exciting.
30:57
Luke: Angel investing is exciting.
30:58
Luke: So how could we increase our chances of investing in things that would go well.
31:03
Luke: Well, you invest in things that you know a lot about.
31:06
Luke: Jake and I both knew enough about defense technology from our time in service,
31:13
Luke: and we started looking.
31:14
Luke: Was there a group that invested specifically in defense technology startups in the UK?
31:20
Luke: And we couldn't find one anywhere.
31:22
Luke: And so Jake and I decided to set up the UK's first defence first angel investing group for
31:29
Luke: defence technology called Antebellum Angels.
31:32
Luke: Since then, we have grown to about 30 people.
31:36
Luke: Most of the people are ex UK forces or civil servants that have left and have a
31:43
Luke: speciality. And what we've created is this critical mass of 30 people who are able to
31:53
Luke: technically analyze different startups in defense and determine whether they are
31:58
Luke: investable for us as a group.
32:00
Luke: And it's going really well.
32:02
Joseph: Well, that's very exciting.
32:03
Joseph: I appreciate you taking me through your career journey and telling us more about your
32:07
Joseph: life in the British Army.
32:09
Joseph: Your transition into military spatial analytics and engineering,
32:13
Joseph: and your current role at Google, along with the importance of proactively
32:16
Joseph: connecting with others along the way.
32:18
Joseph: If people want to learn more about you or Antebellum Angels or the work that you're
32:23
Joseph: doing for Google, is there any place that people can go to learn more about you or to
32:26
Joseph: even connect with you?
32:28
Luke: Yeah, I'm more than happy to connect on LinkedIn.
32:30
Luke: I think that's the best way to get hold of me.
32:33
Joseph: Well, best of luck with your role at Google and also your work there at Antebellum Angels
32:38
Joseph: and look forward to crossing paths with you again soon.
32:40
Luke: Cheers, Joseph.
32:44
Joseph: So I hope you enjoyed hearing Luke's perspectives on networking,
32:47
Joseph: self-marketing and addressing those things standing in the way of you reaching your
32:51
Joseph: goals. Now it's time to wrap up with today's Mental Fuel®,
32:54
Joseph: where I'm going to share my reflections on maintaining relationships in your career and
32:59
Joseph: broader life.
33:12
Joseph: Before we get to today's Mental Fuel®, I wanted to thank wise for supporting this
33:16
Joseph: episode of the Career Relaunch® podcast.
33:18
Joseph: Wise is the world's most international bank account.
33:21
Joseph: It lets you hold and convert multiple currencies all in one place,
33:25
Joseph: offering a smarter, simpler way to move money internationally without all the typical bank
33:29
Joseph: fees or foreign exchange commissions.
33:31
Joseph: It's what I've used myself for years to handle all my international money
33:35
Joseph: transactions and receive overseas payments.
33:37
Joseph: Try wise for free at career wise.
33:44
Joseph: This is the part of the show called Mental Fuel,
33:47
Joseph: where I finished the show with a brief personal story related to one of the topics
33:50
Joseph: we covered today, and wrap up with a simple challenge to help you move forward with your
33:54
Joseph: own career goals. So for today's mental fuel,
33:57
Joseph: I wanted to pick up on what Luke mentioned about networking being a long game,
34:01
Joseph: and that you shouldn't think about it in a transactional way.
34:05
Joseph: And this got me thinking about my own relationships,
34:08
Joseph: both personal and professional, and how important it is to do what I can to
34:13
Joseph: keep my important relationships alive and well.
34:17
Joseph: Now, this is a show focused on career, so I'm going to start by talking about how I
34:21
Joseph: approach maintaining professional contacts.
34:24
Joseph: But I also want to share a few reflections on personal friendships,
34:28
Joseph: which has been on my mind a lot lately.
34:31
Joseph: My career would not be where it is right now had it not been for certain people I've
34:36
Joseph: crossed paths with during my career journey, especially during the pivot points.
34:40
Joseph: Now, after I graduated from college, my very first job was working at Northwestern
34:45
Joseph: Mutual Financial Network in Honolulu, Hawaii,
34:48
Joseph: selling life insurance.
34:50
Joseph: And every morning before work, I took the same bus and I saw the same bus
34:54
Joseph: driver because I got on at the very first stop on his route.
34:57
Joseph: So we always chatted before he set off, and he was actually the first person who
35:01
Joseph: planted a seed in my mind about getting into broadcast journalism.
35:06
Joseph: He saw me reading the newspaper every morning on the bus is at a time way before
35:10
Joseph: smartphones existed, and he told me that he thought I had a nice radio voice and asked me
35:15
Joseph: if I ever thought about going into radio instead of selling life insurance.
35:19
Joseph: I ended up thinking about that and eventually reaching out to a few alumni from my
35:23
Joseph: university who lived out there in Hawaii, including one who put me in touch with the
35:27
Joseph: general manager at Hawaii Public Radio.
35:30
Joseph: And that's exactly how I eventually landed my first broadcast journalism role as a news
35:35
Joseph: anchor there at the station.
35:37
Joseph: That's just one example of how a series of interactions with people ended up opening the
35:41
Joseph: doors to a new job. Now, a lot of my jobs have actually come through
35:44
Joseph: my network. My first job in Washington DC that I landed after I dropped out of medical
35:49
Joseph: school came through another alumni whom I reached out to cold,
35:53
Joseph: and she happened to be having lunch later that week with a guy she knew was going to be
35:57
Joseph: building a team at a startup health policy consulting firm there in Washington,
36:01
Joseph: DC. She got my resume in front of him, and I ended up getting an interview there and
36:05
Joseph: eventually working there. Before I moved to London during an initial scouting trip I made
36:11
Joseph: to the UK, I met up with a friend of a colleague of mine at Clorox,
36:15
Joseph: where I was working at the time in the Bay area.
36:17
Joseph: I stayed in touch with her and when I moved out to London the following year,
36:21
Joseph: she was the one who put me in touch with the hiring manager at the company where I
36:26
Joseph: eventually interviewed and worked.
36:28
Joseph: And even these days, the vast majority of my client and speaking opportunities come
36:33
Joseph: through relationships and connections that I've built over the years.
36:38
Joseph: I share all this because I've seen time and time again in my life,
36:44
Joseph: in hearing from clients or audiences, how your professional networking ends up
36:50
Joseph: being the gateway to the next chapter of your career,
36:54
Joseph: but these relationships don't emerge overnight. As Luke mentioned,
36:57
Joseph: they take time, effort, and sincerity to build,
37:00
Joseph: and the return may not come until much, much later.
37:05
Joseph: These days, I'm very much in the mindset of trying to give back as much as I can to those
37:11
Joseph: in my professional network, whether they're clients or followers or
37:15
Joseph: listeners like you. I feel like I've really benefited over the years from people lending
37:21
Joseph: a hand to me at critical moments.
37:23
Joseph: So I really do try to give without any expectation of anything in return.
37:28
Joseph: I've found that if you can focus on the giving,
37:31
Joseph: that alone can be very rewarding.
37:33
Joseph: Whether you're doing that with your professional network or your personal
37:38
Joseph: relationships. Speaking of which, one of the things on my mind lately has been
37:43
Joseph: the topic of friendship.
37:45
Joseph: And I suppose that as someone in my mid 40s right now,
37:50
Joseph: I've noticed that my friendships have gone through a bit of an evolution in recent
37:55
Joseph: years, maybe due to life stage.
37:57
Joseph: Aside from a handful of close relationships, I've definitely noticed a few of my older
38:02
Joseph: friendships have faded in terms of the frequency of communication.
38:07
Joseph: The presence in each other's lives, and just chances to see each other face to
38:11
Joseph: face. I'm pretty sure that those friends who have remained in my life are really only
38:17
Joseph: there, because both of us have put in the time and the effort required to keep our
38:20
Joseph: friendships alive. I find this topic of friendship especially interesting right now,
38:26
Joseph: because I'm starting to hear more and more stories from people who attend my networking
38:30
Joseph: workshops telling me that they've started to turn to AI for advice,
38:35
Joseph: feedback, mentorship, and plenty of other things that you would
38:39
Joseph: otherwise discuss with friends or people in your life.
38:43
Joseph: And the more I talk with people about the state of their relationships right now,
38:46
Joseph: both personal and professional, the more.
38:49
Joseph: I feel like there's this crisis of human connection unfolding before our eyes,
38:55
Joseph: where technology, streaming, entertainment, social media,
38:58
Joseph: doom scrolling and now AI companions are starting to fill the spaces that our friends,
39:05
Joseph: colleagues and mentors once occupied.
39:08
Joseph: And although I don't have any hard data on this,
39:10
Joseph: I really feel like AI is only going to lead to a quiet but very clear trend toward adult
39:18
Joseph: friendships and professional networking, experiencing a decline in both quality and
39:23
Joseph: quantity. In fact, I recently ran a survey on friendship,
39:28
Joseph: and based on the responses I've seen so far, just over 80% of the respondents said that
39:33
Joseph: they've made three or fewer close friendships in the past decade,
39:37
Joseph: and over half said they only formed one or no close friendships in the past decade.
39:44
Joseph: Interestingly, the number one thing that people said they wished their friends would
39:47
Joseph: do more of was to just check in more regularly.
39:51
Joseph: And this is useful to keep in mind with both your personal and professional connections,
39:55
Joseph: that it doesn't require huge amounts of effort.
39:58
Joseph: Even small gestures can go a long way.
40:02
Joseph: When was the last time you checked in with one of your close friends?
40:07
Joseph: Maybe this is someone you used to connect with regularly,
40:11
Joseph: but now maybe they live in another city or country.
40:16
Joseph: Maybe you are both in differing life stages, or maybe you've just both gotten really busy,
40:22
Joseph: which is pretty much the case for every single friend of mine in my life.
40:27
Joseph: Or when was the last time you dropped a note to that former colleague of yours whom you
40:31
Joseph: really clicked with, or that mentor who helped you figure something out years ago?
40:37
Joseph: Or that recruiter who helped you land your current job?
40:41
Joseph: Or maybe that former client or customer you really loved working with.
40:45
Joseph: Especially during moments when you don't need anything from these people.
40:49
Joseph: When was the last time you checked in with them? In a world increasingly dominated by
40:56
Joseph: virtual communications, AI, and quick text messages,
41:00
Joseph: maybe it's time for you to invest a few extra minutes to communicate with someone in a way
41:05
Joseph: that feels a bit more personal.
41:08
Joseph: I know this is gonna date me to say this, but recently I've returned sending snail mail
41:16
Joseph: to important people in my life, and I'm talking about personal cards and
41:20
Joseph: postcards in the mail, which I know sounds so old fashioned,
41:24
Joseph: but literally every single person who's been on the receiving end of this has told me they
41:29
Joseph: really loved it and they appreciated it, and they told me they couldn't remember the
41:33
Joseph: last time someone else took the time to do that.
41:36
Joseph: Now, of course, I also do plenty of digital communication,
41:39
Joseph: which is of course super convenient.
41:41
Joseph: But if I really want to signal effort and enthusiasm with someone virtually.
41:45
Joseph: I tend these days to send video messages instead of emails or text messages.
41:50
Joseph: I'm also just trying to get better at picking up the phone and calling people,
41:53
Joseph: which is something I'm not as good at doing anymore.
41:57
Joseph: No matter how you choose to connect with people or reconnect with those in your life,
42:03
Joseph: remember that you can only control what you do here.
42:07
Joseph: As is the case with any relationship, you can't control someone else's bandwidth to
42:12
Joseph: respond their timeline to get back to you, or their reaction to your earnest attempts to
42:18
Joseph: remain in touch with them.
42:21
Joseph: So I hope you'll do it.
42:23
Joseph: I hope you'll reconnect with people.
42:25
Joseph: I hope you'll stay in touch with people, because I really believe that the best
42:29
Joseph: opportunities and experiences out there arise through relationships.
42:33
Joseph: And I think putting in the effort to keep important relationships alive in both your
42:38
Joseph: personal and professional life is absolutely worth it.
42:41
Joseph: That? This takes me to a quote from Robert Waldinger,
42:45
Joseph: the director of the longest running study on human happiness,
42:48
Joseph: which is the Harvard study of adult development.
42:51
Joseph: And this is from his book The Good Life.
42:54
Joseph: One crucial factor stands out for the consistency and power of its ties to physical
42:59
Joseph: health, mental health, and longevity.
43:02
Joseph: Contrary to what many people might think, it's not career achievement or exercise or a
43:07
Joseph: healthy diet. One thing continuously demonstrates its broad and enduring
43:12
Joseph: importance good relationships.
43:15
Joseph: So my challenge to you is to think of one person out there who you've enjoyed
43:21
Joseph: connecting with in your professional or personal network,
43:24
Joseph: but just haven't really spoken to in a while.
43:27
Joseph: Someone who's been consistently energizing, helpful,
43:30
Joseph: supportive, or even inspiring to you.
43:34
Joseph: Or maybe it's just someone who makes you feel good when you're around them.
43:37
Joseph: Reach out to them just to check in and let them know you're thinking about them.
43:43
Joseph: But the bonus challenge here is to go beyond your usual ways of reconnecting.
43:47
Joseph: And maybe instead of just sending a text message or email or LinkedIn message,
43:52
Joseph: pick up the phone and call them or record a voice note or even a video message or a card
43:58
Joseph: in the mail if you really want to change things up.
44:00
Joseph: I know it can feel a bit awkward to reconnect with someone if it's been a while since
44:05
Joseph: you've spoken, but just remember that every single day that goes by is another day that
44:10
Joseph: your relationship with them just fades.
44:13
Joseph: So don't wait. Just do it today.
44:16
Joseph: And you might be surprised just how much it brightens that person's day and your day too.
44:22
Joseph: If you want to share your thoughts on the topic of friendship, I'd welcome you filling
44:25
Joseph: out my friendship survey at careerrelaunch.net/friendship,
44:29
Joseph: and I've also included that link in the show notes here.
44:32
Joseph: It only takes a couple of minutes, and your input can really shape how I
44:35
Joseph: approach this topic of professional and personal relationships in my future
44:40
Joseph: networking workshops and articles.
44:42
Joseph: Also speaking of recording a voice note for someone,
44:45
Joseph: if you've got a question about career change you want me to address on the show,
44:49
Joseph: or if you've got a story of career change in your own life you'd like to share,
44:53
Joseph: I'd love for you to leave me a voicemail with your thoughts at careerrelaunch.net/110,
44:58
Joseph: where you can also find a summary of my discussion with Luke.
45:01
Joseph: Again, that's careerrelaunch.net/110.
45:05
Joseph: Thanks so much for being part of the career relaunch community. And a very special thanks
45:09
Joseph: again to Luke Parker for sharing his unique story with us today.
45:13
Joseph: This episode was mixed by Liam MacKenzie.
45:15
Joseph: Today's music was curated by Jonathan Renaldy Poll,
45:18
Joseph: and the Career Relaunch® theme song was written and performed by Electrocardiogram.
45:22
Joseph: I'm Joseph Liu and I hope you'll tune in next time when we've got Scott Lamb,
45:26
Joseph: VP of content at Medium, joining us on the show to tell us about his
45:29
Joseph: career in journalism, and share some tips on publishing your own
45:32
Joseph: writing online.