Latest / The You Project / #2048 Anti-establishment Medicine - Dr. Jeff Gross

Transcript

#2048 Anti-establishment Medicine - Dr. Jeff Gross · The You Project

0:00
Speaker 1: I'll get a team. It's the project that's you, of course,
0:02
Speaker 1: it's the You project. Craig Anthey Harper. It's a Wednesday
0:05
Speaker 1: in Melbourne, but it's not a Wednesday in the States
0:08
Speaker 1: or in Las Vegas. It's a Tuesday? Is it?
0:11
Speaker 2: Am?
0:11
Speaker 1: I care? It's still Tuesday? Isn't it Tuesday night?
0:15
Speaker 2: We just can't get away from Tuesday.
0:18
Speaker 1: I don't want to say the the you know, the obvious,
0:21
Speaker 1: but you're you're always going to be behind us. So
0:25
Speaker 1: that's okay, that's okay. Let me tell you Wednesday, Wednesday,
0:29
Speaker 1: the nineteenth of November. It's pretty good. It's pretty good
0:32
Speaker 1: over here anyway, so look forward to that. Yeah, how
0:36
Speaker 1: are you? How have you been?
0:38
Speaker 2: Fantastic? Thank you yourself? How are things there?
0:42
Speaker 1: Oh? Good? A few little challenges on planet Craig with
0:45
Speaker 1: some very old parents, but you know that everybody goes
0:48
Speaker 1: through that, so I'm trying to navigate that. That's a
0:51
Speaker 1: first for me. And are your parents still around either
0:55
Speaker 1: or both or neither.
0:56
Speaker 2: My mother and stepfather are alive and well and they
1:01
Speaker 2: come in for some of our regenerative anti aging attention
1:06
Speaker 2: and yeah, young, active and independent.
1:10
Speaker 1: So what's your mum? Benching these days.
1:13
Speaker 2: She's benching her body weight.
1:14
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, that's great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, what she
1:18
Speaker 1: deadlifting one point five body weight for reps issue?
1:21
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, I've heard.
1:24
Speaker 1: I've heard she's an animal. I've heard she's an animal.
1:28
Speaker 1: Before we jump in, like today, I wanted to ask
1:30
Speaker 1: you a few things because I was kind of praising
1:36
Speaker 1: you before we started recording, and I mean it, it's
1:38
Speaker 1: like what I what I love about you and why
1:41
Speaker 1: I love having you back is because you know, you
1:44
Speaker 1: have a high level of expertise and knowledge and understanding
1:47
Speaker 1: and skill in your space that virtually none of my listeners.
1:51
Speaker 1: I would think none of my listeners do. They might
1:54
Speaker 1: know more than I do. But like, but your capacity
1:58
Speaker 1: to be able to share complicated ideas and messages in
2:02
Speaker 1: a kind of a user friendly way is It's not unique,
2:07
Speaker 1: but it's certainly not common. How much are you aware
2:11
Speaker 1: of that? Like? Is communication connection building rapport? Because you're
2:17
Speaker 1: constantly talking to people who don't have your knowledge or
2:20
Speaker 1: your understanding or your medical insight and you can't just
2:24
Speaker 1: talk psychobabble to them. How much are you aware of
2:27
Speaker 1: communication and helping people? Have I guess a capacity to
2:33
Speaker 1: embrace what's actually going on without being overwhelmed.
2:39
Speaker 2: Well, thank you for that. By the way, I'm acutely
2:41
Speaker 2: aware of. My job is to educate, So if you're
2:46
Speaker 2: a patient sitting in front of me, I have to
2:48
Speaker 2: explain it to you in a way that connects with you.
2:52
Speaker 2: And I might be different for different people, and I
2:56
Speaker 2: have to be aware of the cultural difference, language difference,
3:02
Speaker 2: the contextual differences, because I need someone to feel like
3:07
Speaker 2: they got it before they leave. And the important doctrine
3:13
Speaker 2: of informed consent means a patient needs to be able
3:17
Speaker 2: to agree to a treatment knowing all the options. And
3:20
Speaker 2: they can't know all the options they don't understand some
3:24
Speaker 2: explanation behind them, and that's a time consuming process, but
3:29
Speaker 2: as rewarding for the patient and for me. The system
3:33
Speaker 2: doesn't allow for that, which is why you know, we
3:36
Speaker 2: don't work inside the institutionalized, watered down, insurance driven system here.
3:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that gives you, I guess, the freedom and
3:50
Speaker 1: the flexibility to be able to do the things that
3:52
Speaker 1: you do the way that you want to do them
3:54
Speaker 1: without you know, those kind of barriers and restrictions.
3:59
Speaker 2: I did I one further, Yeah, to allow one further.
4:03
Speaker 2: It allows me to follow the Hippocratic oath best because
4:10
Speaker 2: health insurance forces institutions and people that work for them
4:15
Speaker 2: to to skirt that oath.
4:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so, And I mean it is the hippocritic.
4:25
Speaker 1: First do no harm? Is there a bit more?
4:28
Speaker 2: First do no harm is a was a concept from
4:33
Speaker 2: an anonymous name Galen, probably in around sixteen hundreds. Some
4:39
Speaker 2: people have added it to a modern version of the
4:41
Speaker 2: Hippocratic oath, but it was not from Hippocrates.
4:44
Speaker 1: Right, can you can you give us a snapshot of
4:47
Speaker 1: the Hippocratic oath and I'm more accurate than me.
4:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, Hippocratic oath is about you know, service first to
4:54
Speaker 2: your patient, uh, and to help relieve suffering and help
5:01
Speaker 2: to you know, cure those that try to cure those
5:05
Speaker 2: that are ailing. There were some other more political nature
5:12
Speaker 2: to it that's kind of dropped off the modern version.
5:15
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's an interesting read. It's not very long.
5:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you think like I'm always encouraging people
5:25
Speaker 1: to this sounds this sounds shonky at the start, but
5:29
Speaker 1: basically to do their own research. I don't mean watching
5:32
Speaker 1: YouTube videos or jumping on the internet, but by that
5:34
Speaker 1: I mean and E calls one kind of figuring out
5:38
Speaker 1: at the very least, being aware of how your body
5:41
Speaker 1: responds to different things. So, Craig, when you have seven
5:45
Speaker 1: hours sleep, how does your brain work versus eight hours sleep?
5:48
Speaker 1: Or versus five hours? Craig, when you eat dinner at
5:51
Speaker 1: nine o'clock at night versus six thirty, do you notice anything?
5:55
Speaker 1: Is there any difference in terms of sleep or disruption
5:58
Speaker 1: or energy? Or you know, when you drink a leader
6:01
Speaker 1: of water versus three leaders of water, you know, when
6:03
Speaker 1: you have two coffees versus four, when you like, all
6:05
Speaker 1: of this kind of just being aware of the stuff
6:08
Speaker 1: that we do, either consciously or unconsciously to our body,
6:13
Speaker 1: and then you know, without you know, pretending we're medical professionals,
6:18
Speaker 1: but at the very least navigating life with this awareness of, oh,
6:21
Speaker 1: when I do this to my body, this seems to
6:23
Speaker 1: be the outcome. You know, that's almost just building a
6:27
Speaker 1: different kind of self awareness, physiological self awareness, you know,
6:31
Speaker 1: operational self awareness. I feel like that's something that's not
6:37
Speaker 1: really spoken about a lot or encouraged a lot. We
6:42
Speaker 1: kind of in Australia anyway, it's very much oh you
6:45
Speaker 1: know this happened. Now I'll go and see a doctor
6:47
Speaker 1: and then they will give me a pillow. They will
6:48
Speaker 1: tell me what to do, rather than saying what am
6:51
Speaker 1: I doing to contribute to this thing? Like what do
6:54
Speaker 1: I know? Well, I drink alcohol seven days a week,
6:57
Speaker 1: so that you know that could have something to do
6:59
Speaker 1: with this issue that I'm having. Or I spend twenty
7:03
Speaker 1: two hours day sitting on my ass lying in a
7:05
Speaker 1: bid that could be a contributing FACTA no, I.
7:10
Speaker 2: Concur with you. I think that my best patients are
7:15
Speaker 2: those that are really self aware, because they can into
7:20
Speaker 2: it their problems and their reactions to different things, and
7:23
Speaker 2: they can give me more useful information for me to
7:26
Speaker 2: help figure out a pattern of what's wrong. Sometimes I've
7:29
Speaker 2: noticed this too. Sometimes people will say, oh, I can't
7:32
Speaker 2: I can't take much of that supplement or do that
7:35
Speaker 2: it sets off this and you know they've seen a
7:38
Speaker 2: doctor and the doctor's like, well, that's not possible. That's
7:41
Speaker 2: not a thing. You know, Well, you know, when you're
7:44
Speaker 2: taking data from a patient, it is a thing. It
7:47
Speaker 2: is an an equals one and to try to extrapolate
7:50
Speaker 2: that to a study of a thousand people is not useful.
7:54
Speaker 2: And that's why a lot of the medical research out
7:56
Speaker 2: there is horrible. It's horrible because it's it's it's for
8:01
Speaker 2: epidemiologic or population type issues. They often use the wrong
8:08
Speaker 2: kind of statistics when they look at it, you know,
8:10
Speaker 2: they take it, they take a situation that is nonlinear
8:14
Speaker 2: and they try to force it into a linear setting.
8:18
Speaker 2: And the peer reviewers in the journals don't understand this.
8:20
Speaker 2: The peers aren't very bright. And there's so much of that.
8:25
Speaker 2: So so, and now in the US we're reversing some dogma,
8:31
Speaker 2: right this this Women's Health Initiative. Did you guys hear
8:33
Speaker 2: about that over there?
8:36
Speaker 1: I didn't. I'm sure my listeners did.
8:38
Speaker 2: But you go on, for years, based on a single
8:43
Speaker 2: study called the Women's Health Initiative, doctors were telling women
8:48
Speaker 2: that hormone replacement would harm them, they would cause them cancer.
8:53
Speaker 2: It turns out the statistics were completely wrong on that
8:57
Speaker 2: and the opposite may be true. So they finally just
9:01
Speaker 2: officially denounced it. So something that was you know, peer
9:06
Speaker 2: review dogma for all this time. They looked back and said, oh, yeah,
9:10
Speaker 2: I guess we did mess that up pretty bad. And
9:13
Speaker 2: you know, we've got decades of women who have suffered
9:16
Speaker 2: significantly because they weren't offered, you know, what they should
9:20
Speaker 2: be having. And that's just the beginning of hopefully looking
9:27
Speaker 2: back at things in the past that were just wrong
9:30
Speaker 2: and admitting they were wrong and moving forward into something new.
9:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been an interesting journey doing my own research,
9:40
Speaker 1: which is a very different space to you but because
9:45
Speaker 1: I ran my own studies and I also did what
9:48
Speaker 1: you know is a systematic literature review, where I started
9:51
Speaker 1: with thirty one hundred and fifty papers which totaled over
9:55
Speaker 1: two thousand different studies, and to try to distill it
9:59
Speaker 1: into some kind of meaningful outcomes and messages and blah
10:01
Speaker 1: blah blah ah that.
10:02
Speaker 2: But one of the.
10:03
Speaker 1: Really interesting things I didn't know is that in psychology anyway,
10:09
Speaker 1: I don't know what the exact number is, but the
10:11
Speaker 1: majority of psychological research is done on students because because
10:18
Speaker 1: it's like, well, I'm a PhD student and so I
10:21
Speaker 1: can access students easily, right. But then, you know, so
10:26
Speaker 1: what you've got is you've got all of this research
10:28
Speaker 1: which gets extrapolated to everyone from zero to one hundred
10:32
Speaker 1: years old. But the vast majority of people who are
10:36
Speaker 1: being researched on in many cases is like a four
10:40
Speaker 1: year window of eighteen to twenty two year olds who
10:44
Speaker 1: are being compensated or rewarded for doing this research or
10:48
Speaker 1: being involved, like they're getting academic credits. Fortunately, most of
10:54
Speaker 1: my actual research that I did was with the general public.
10:57
Speaker 1: But then when you look into it, you go, well,
11:00
Speaker 1: how much does this even mean? These conclusions that are
11:04
Speaker 1: drawn from this research when the vast majority of the
11:08
Speaker 1: people involved in the research were eight en to twenty
11:12
Speaker 1: two years old, and they were academics in this certain context,
11:16
Speaker 1: in this certain environment, being incentivized to participate this in
11:21
Speaker 1: the first place. They didn't want to do it. They
11:24
Speaker 1: were just there because they got fucking academic credit, And
11:27
Speaker 1: you're like, well, what's the quality of this? Then it's
11:31
Speaker 1: like people don't think about the actual methodology or process.
11:36
Speaker 1: They just go, oh, this is what the research tells us. Well, yeah,
11:40
Speaker 1: but if the protocol or the methodology is dogshit, then
11:44
Speaker 1: the outcomes the findings are also dogshit.
11:50
Speaker 2: I agree with that, And that's funny because you made
11:52
Speaker 2: me remember something I probably haven't thought of for decades.
11:55
Speaker 2: As I had to do that. We had to do
11:57
Speaker 2: the research too. To pass psychology class in college. We
12:02
Speaker 2: had to sign up for a few studies and participate.
12:05
Speaker 2: So you're right, that's a very select demographic, right, young,
12:12
Speaker 2: probably healthy, mind's not fully developed, ideas not fully developed,
12:18
Speaker 2: you know. So that's that's a great concept. They need
12:22
Speaker 2: to do studies in different, more more diverse, you know,
12:27
Speaker 2: demographics one percent.
12:30
Speaker 1: Well, what I mean, we're taking those findings and then
12:32
Speaker 1: extrapolating to the entire population, different cultures, different religions, different
12:38
Speaker 1: different demographics, and then we're going, oh, because this group
12:42
Speaker 1: of you know, teenagers and young adults, this is the
12:47
Speaker 1: data we got from then, and then try to apply
12:50
Speaker 1: that to my eighty five year old moment in some capacity.
12:53
Speaker 1: It doesn't really doesn't really make sense. What is speaking
12:58
Speaker 1: of all of this? What is something that.
12:59
Speaker 2: You you.
13:03
Speaker 1: That you believed or that you embraced that you've changed
13:07
Speaker 1: your mind on. I might have asked you this once before,
13:09
Speaker 1: But is there something that you went I got that wrong,
13:13
Speaker 1: or there's way more to this this story than I
13:17
Speaker 1: was led to believe.
13:21
Speaker 2: Well, there are many things, and I would not be
13:24
Speaker 2: a decent physician if I did not, you know, have
13:31
Speaker 2: the ability to look at those things and open minded
13:34
Speaker 2: to consider new data to change my mind. So you know,
13:38
Speaker 2: the Women's Health Initiative. You know how we approach that
13:41
Speaker 2: is one item where we were scared about giving estrogen
13:45
Speaker 2: to breast cancer. You know, our patients at risk for
13:49
Speaker 2: breast cancer were now thinking, well, whoops, the estrogen may
13:54
Speaker 2: actually be keeping those cells more normally functioning and not cancerous.
13:59
Speaker 2: So that's why how I approach the use of corticosteroids
14:03
Speaker 2: quarter zone type injections for joints and spine. We used
14:05
Speaker 2: to use them ubiquitously. You got an inflamed joinner, You've
14:08
Speaker 2: seen a courtizone shot. Now we're looking back and saying
14:11
Speaker 2: we've done those repeated shots actually are have accelerated the
14:16
Speaker 2: degeneration of the joint, and we've got other options now.
14:20
Speaker 2: So this is this. I'm sure my list goes on,
14:23
Speaker 2: but those are probably two common ones.
14:26
Speaker 1: Well, there's all of us in it. It's like I think, well,
14:32
Speaker 1: I don't think. I'm pretty sure I've gotten as many
14:34
Speaker 1: things wrong over the years as i've gotten right. And
14:37
Speaker 1: it's just like I think, part of like, if you
14:40
Speaker 1: want to be authentic and real, and you know, you
14:44
Speaker 1: really want to walk your talk, you have to And
14:47
Speaker 1: I just mean in general, me included me at the
14:50
Speaker 1: front of the queue. You've got to own up to
14:52
Speaker 1: the things that you got wrong, and like nobody was
14:55
Speaker 1: intending to do anything wrong, or at least ideas that
14:58
Speaker 1: I so much of the stuff that I used to
15:01
Speaker 1: think to be absolute gospel. I'm like, oh, well, that's
15:06
Speaker 1: even The idea is that, you know, if this is
15:09
Speaker 1: the problem, this is the solution, and we know that
15:12
Speaker 1: that's effective for this and that, and then you go,
15:14
Speaker 1: that's effective for a lot of people, but not for
15:17
Speaker 1: all people. I was talking about this the other day
15:21
Speaker 1: day with somebody. We're talking about this idea of relaxing
15:26
Speaker 1: and calming and switching on the parasympathetic nervous system and
15:29
Speaker 1: getting out of that anxiety and that stress and that
15:32
Speaker 1: hypervigilance and that overthinking, fucking chaos, and how for some people,
15:39
Speaker 1: you know, sitting in a quiet room with their legs
15:41
Speaker 1: crossed and a bit of en you're playing or whoever,
15:43
Speaker 1: and doing some kind of meditative is like, that's beautiful
15:48
Speaker 1: for them, and it does all the things that their
15:50
Speaker 1: body needs. But I'd rather punch myself in the face
15:53
Speaker 1: than do that. Like me sitting in a room like
15:55
Speaker 1: that doing that, my response is not calm I don't
16:00
Speaker 1: enjoy it, which is not say it's bad. It's not
16:03
Speaker 1: bad at all. It's just not for me versus me
16:06
Speaker 1: riding a motorbike, which I've done since I was five
16:09
Speaker 1: and I still do pretty much every day of my life.
16:12
Speaker 1: When I'm on a motorbike ime in my happy place,
16:14
Speaker 1: I actually feel joy, I actually feel surprisingly, I feel calm.
16:22
Speaker 1: I don't know if I should, but I do. But
16:25
Speaker 1: for other people that would be an episode or an
16:27
Speaker 1: exercise in absolute terror.
16:30
Speaker 2: You know.
16:32
Speaker 1: But it's not so much about the thing that we
16:34
Speaker 1: do as it is our relationship to or response to
16:40
Speaker 1: the thing that we do. It's like, well, how does
16:42
Speaker 1: that thing, whatever the thing is, how does that affect
16:45
Speaker 1: your physiology and your psychology and your emotional system? You know,
16:50
Speaker 1: And that's back to that end equals one.
16:54
Speaker 2: It is back to that, and there's so much we
16:57
Speaker 2: don't know and we're learning. I encountered some new technology
17:03
Speaker 2: this past weekend and we were at a health and
17:04
Speaker 2: wellness event in Tampa, Florida. Yeah, very nice, and met
17:11
Speaker 2: some people with a company that they call it Informational
17:17
Speaker 2: Nutraceuticals or Infoceuticals. So what they do is they they
17:22
Speaker 2: take advantage of and I haven't done the deep dive,
17:25
Speaker 2: but I'm very interested of the quantum state of molecules
17:32
Speaker 2: that communicate throughout our body and can retain that quantum state.
17:38
Speaker 2: And they've looked at the quantum state of people who
17:40
Speaker 2: are relaxed and the quantum state of people who are
17:43
Speaker 2: who need this or need that, and they've they've been
17:46
Speaker 2: able to use a quantum generator and take like a
17:51
Speaker 2: salt water and imprint, imprint the solution, the quantum information
17:57
Speaker 2: into the you know, the protons of the wall water.
18:01
Speaker 1: Wow, it's like right.
18:03
Speaker 2: And and then that that solution you put under your
18:06
Speaker 2: tongue and your your body then communicates with your body's
18:13
Speaker 2: quantum state of the water and your and you can
18:15
Speaker 2: achieve that quantum state. This is called quantum medicine. It's
18:18
Speaker 2: very new to me, but being a nerd, I like
18:22
Speaker 2: all the science stuff. So this is this is very good.
18:24
Speaker 2: And so in essence, if you are, you know, anxious,
18:29
Speaker 2: you could take one one of these solutions that calms you.
18:34
Speaker 2: And so they had one that's called dream that supports sleep.
18:38
Speaker 2: So I took it last night. It's my second night now.
18:40
Speaker 2: It just knocked me out really yeah, I don't know
18:44
Speaker 2: if it's a placebo effect or what I'm gonna I'm
18:46
Speaker 2: gonna look into this with more, you know, fervor, but
18:50
Speaker 2: it's very interesting. And they have a set of these,
18:53
Speaker 2: you know, they have some for infection and this and
18:56
Speaker 2: and and that, and it puts us on a whole
19:02
Speaker 2: new level when we can not treat with medications or surgery,
19:06
Speaker 2: but we have we have ways of informing the cells
19:09
Speaker 2: and our body through quantum entanglement.
19:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, do you know. Yeah, it's so bloody, it's
19:17
Speaker 1: it's so fascinating. You said they're place ebos. Right, I'm
19:21
Speaker 1: just going to jump around a little bit. I did
19:22
Speaker 1: an episode last week on place Ebos and No Cibos,
19:27
Speaker 1: and I thought, rather than me just bang on about
19:31
Speaker 1: the potential power of the mind over our physiology and
19:33
Speaker 1: the capacity that we may or may not have to
19:36
Speaker 1: heal ourselves or resolve issue whatever, right, I thought, I'm
19:39
Speaker 1: going to do some research and find documented cases of
19:46
Speaker 1: you know, some of these kind of events and stories.
19:52
Speaker 1: And there's so many of them, and it's like there's one,
19:55
Speaker 1: there was one which I won't bore the audience, but
19:59
Speaker 1: I forget the I've got it written somewhere, but the
20:01
Speaker 1: doctor's name escapes me. But he was a doctor slash
20:05
Speaker 1: surgeon working in the NBA with NBA players, and like
20:11
Speaker 1: the players would often at the end of the season
20:13
Speaker 1: go in for a knee kind of you know, scrape
20:16
Speaker 1: scope whatever, and they'd like to and they would do
20:20
Speaker 1: these three incisions. Then they would do this operation where
20:24
Speaker 1: they would take out all the crap a bit of
20:26
Speaker 1: like wear and tear or anyway. He thought that the
20:29
Speaker 1: operation basically didn't do anything, but the players thought it did,
20:36
Speaker 1: like they believed in the operation, and they believed that anyway,
20:38
Speaker 1: So he ran this experiment. I don't know how he
20:41
Speaker 1: got ethical approval for this. It was in the It
20:44
Speaker 1: was in I think two thousand and three or two
20:46
Speaker 1: this and he had three groups, one who had the
20:49
Speaker 1: actual operation, one who had a partial operation whatever that means,
20:53
Speaker 1: and one who had nothing. But they did go in.
20:55
Speaker 1: They all went into the operating theater. They're all put
20:59
Speaker 1: under anesthetic, and they all had three incisions made in
21:04
Speaker 1: their knee the same right as though they so And
21:07
Speaker 1: when they came out the the medical staff didn't know
21:10
Speaker 1: who had had the operation, so everyone was treated the same.
21:14
Speaker 1: They're all rehad the same and you know what I'm
21:16
Speaker 1: going to say, like the outcomes were better for the
21:18
Speaker 1: people who didn't have anything done in the short term
21:22
Speaker 1: and the short term and the long term. And one
21:25
Speaker 1: of the guys who had a placebo operation went back
21:29
Speaker 1: and played professional basketball having had nothing done, but the
21:34
Speaker 1: issue had been resolved so it couldn't play. Then he
21:37
Speaker 1: had the operation, nudge nudge, wink wink, back playing all good,
21:40
Speaker 1: no pain issue resolved. Like that stuff fascinates me. And
21:47
Speaker 1: I know there's a lot of bullshit around that, and
21:48
Speaker 1: you've got to be careful about that and don't believe everything.
21:51
Speaker 1: I get all of that, But could you imagine, I mean,
21:55
Speaker 1: there's so many companies and businesses that would not want
21:59
Speaker 1: that to be Imagine if we could understand, imagine if
22:02
Speaker 1: we could open that door on really starting to understand
22:07
Speaker 1: how we could heal ourselves if we if we have
22:11
Speaker 1: that ability but we just don't know how to access
22:14
Speaker 1: it or operate it. There's so many companies that don't
22:17
Speaker 1: want that to happen.
22:19
Speaker 2: Agreed, Oh absolutely, I mean we see this all the
22:22
Speaker 2: time and it drives my practice right because I'm a
22:25
Speaker 2: surgeon trying not to do surgery and explain to people
22:28
Speaker 2: they come here for a second opinion. Oh, but they
22:30
Speaker 2: told me that surgery is the only way, and explain,
22:33
Speaker 2: no surgiers the next thing on that doctor's menu, there
22:37
Speaker 2: are other options. So it's it's it has to do
22:41
Speaker 2: with appetites. So people don't have an appetite for, you know,
22:45
Speaker 2: things that aren't in the mainstream.
22:48
Speaker 1: Well, if you go to you know whoever it is.
22:51
Speaker 1: You go to a dietitian, it's going to be a
22:52
Speaker 1: dietary problem. You go to a natural path, they're going
22:55
Speaker 1: to turn to Nat Dropery. You go to a surgeon.
22:57
Speaker 1: Of course you're going to need surgery. You've got do
22:59
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's like there ain't too
23:01
Speaker 1: many people talking themselves out of business when you do.
23:08
Speaker 1: You have an awareness when you're talking to people like, okay,
23:13
Speaker 1: let me hear the pause button, then I'll ask you.
23:15
Speaker 1: So I had an awareness when I was talking to
23:16
Speaker 1: clients over the years. Remember I owned multiple personal training
23:19
Speaker 1: centers and I did tens of tens and tens of
23:23
Speaker 1: thousands of hours of PT on the gym floor, and
23:26
Speaker 1: often you would have people who would come in who
23:28
Speaker 1: would be never been in a gym, not in good shape,
23:31
Speaker 1: often terrible shape, insecure, very self conscious, very fearful, very anxious,
23:41
Speaker 1: and all of that. And for whatever reason, I had
23:44
Speaker 1: an ability to be able to make them feel really
23:46
Speaker 1: safe and really seen and really okay very quickly. And
23:50
Speaker 1: I would often just talk to them about, you know,
23:53
Speaker 1: the fact that I'd trained many people like them, and
23:55
Speaker 1: many people in worse condition than them, and many people.
23:58
Speaker 1: You know, I'd say to some people, you look like
23:59
Speaker 1: in a limb compared to some of the people I've
24:01
Speaker 1: worked with, and that'd laugh, and that feel better, right.
24:03
Speaker 1: But I realized that, you know, what I could do
24:07
Speaker 1: or how it could help them with their body was
24:09
Speaker 1: secondary in that moment. It was more about how I could,
24:12
Speaker 1: you know, make them feel okay psychologically and sociologically and
24:15
Speaker 1: emotionally in that place. So when you're talking with somebody
24:20
Speaker 1: and you're consulting somebody, and I guess some people would
24:24
Speaker 1: come to you that'd be very fearful, how much of
24:27
Speaker 1: that is you just trying to build connection, report trust
24:30
Speaker 1: and respect before you even open the medical door.
24:37
Speaker 2: A lot of it is the right answer, but sometimes
24:40
Speaker 2: you're not sure, and you're you have to sort of
24:43
Speaker 2: test the system, you know, talk to someone and ask
24:45
Speaker 2: them questions, you know, see where they are anxiety wise,
24:51
Speaker 2: or what they're really looking for, what the real problem is,
24:55
Speaker 2: because sometimes it's some people are not you know, very well,
24:59
Speaker 2: call it somatically tuned in. They don't they just come
25:03
Speaker 2: and say, yeah, I just have pain. Well where is it? Well,
25:05
Speaker 2: I'm it's in my back or where yeah, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah,
25:09
Speaker 2: you know, it takes a while to sort of help them,
25:12
Speaker 2: help you help them, you know, yeah, so but but yeah,
25:16
Speaker 2: I mean sometimes they just need to know it's okay.
25:19
Speaker 2: And sometimes they're not seeking treatment, they just want to
25:22
Speaker 2: be heard. Yeah. Yeah.
25:26
Speaker 1: One of the things I wanted to ask you about today.
25:28
Speaker 1: I don't even have a specific question, but I want
25:32
Speaker 1: you to talk to me about pain. I want to
25:35
Speaker 1: talk about a bit about you know, because we talk
25:38
Speaker 1: about pain threshold and we talk about you know, how
25:41
Speaker 1: people I don't know. It's like if I get massaged,
25:45
Speaker 1: for example, I want the hardest possible massage of all time,
25:50
Speaker 1: like you could drive a truck on me. I'm like,
25:52
Speaker 1: can you get a bigger truck? Like other people you
25:55
Speaker 1: just touch them and they scream. Now, I don't know
25:58
Speaker 1: if that's just because I don't feel the same. I
26:00
Speaker 1: don't think I have an abnormally high pain threshold. I
26:03
Speaker 1: don't think on some kind of alpha, by the way,
26:05
Speaker 1: But talk to us a little bit about the individual experience,
26:09
Speaker 1: personal person of pain and whether or not I don't know,
26:13
Speaker 1: is that on some level psychological.
26:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, I mean you and I have touched
26:18
Speaker 2: on this a little bit in the past. But of
26:21
Speaker 2: course there's a genetic variations and how we perceive pain.
26:24
Speaker 2: There's a neurotransmitter or brain perception, cognitive perception, and depends
26:29
Speaker 2: on your state of minor mood. The pain can vary
26:32
Speaker 2: with the psychological aspects of how your neurotransmitters are made up,
26:37
Speaker 2: and depression sort of aggravates pain and the and it
26:44
Speaker 2: depends very much on your neuromuscular status. Yeah. You you know,
26:51
Speaker 2: most people with the most severe pain, I look more
26:55
Speaker 2: debilitated observationally, and I don't know if that's a cause
26:59
Speaker 2: and effect, But you know, muscle is protective. Muscle releases
27:05
Speaker 2: endorphins and causes the release of endorphins, which are small
27:09
Speaker 2: internal opiates. Muscle releases the myo kinds or extra kinds,
27:12
Speaker 2: the peptides that that help the body in so many
27:16
Speaker 2: and the brain in so many ways. Yes, you know,
27:19
Speaker 2: so I think that the answer here is there's huge
27:25
Speaker 2: variation and pain and perception and listen, the brain's powerful.
27:29
Speaker 2: Like you can hypnotize someone out of pain. You can.
27:33
Speaker 2: You know, when you put people in sedation, they don't
27:37
Speaker 2: feel pain turning off their brain. But the physiologic stimulus
27:42
Speaker 2: that was there in the first place causing pain is
27:44
Speaker 2: still there.
27:45
Speaker 1: You know.
27:45
Speaker 2: Let's say I put a knife in your leg and
27:47
Speaker 2: it hurts, and then we say you're not gonna feel it,
27:50
Speaker 2: but still there, Yes, some damage. So the brain has
27:54
Speaker 2: a lot to do with pain.
27:56
Speaker 1: Yes, so interesting do you reckon? We I feel like
28:01
Speaker 1: we talk more and more with longevity and health span
28:06
Speaker 1: about managing our body, which is good about you know,
28:09
Speaker 1: bone density and neuromuscular kind of function and coordination, balance, walking, gate,
28:16
Speaker 1: staying strong, lifting weights, moving. We don't talk so much
28:21
Speaker 1: about how do we keep our brain working optimally because
28:24
Speaker 1: that's obviously you know, like how do I actually keep
28:30
Speaker 1: my focus and attention and my shortened, medium and long
28:34
Speaker 1: term memory, and how do I be able to solve problems?
28:36
Speaker 1: And how do I think critically and how do I
28:39
Speaker 1: keep this thing, this three pound thing, in the middle
28:41
Speaker 1: of this danger alert thing in my head? How do
28:46
Speaker 1: I keep that working as well as I can for
28:49
Speaker 1: as long as I can? We don't It's spoken about
28:53
Speaker 1: in like you and I would talk about it, but
28:55
Speaker 1: it seems like the general public don't think about it
28:58
Speaker 1: so much, or it's not something that when we talk
29:00
Speaker 1: about health and longevity, we don't talk about brain optimization.
29:06
Speaker 2: Well, there is a lot at least on you know,
29:10
Speaker 2: there's a lot going on in the logevity space which
29:12
Speaker 2: I'm you know, involved in, And I can tell you this.
29:16
Speaker 2: Taking care of your muscles is taking care of your brain.
29:19
Speaker 2: You've got to exercise, You've got to maintain your muscle mass.
29:22
Speaker 2: That is the single best thing you can do for
29:24
Speaker 2: your brain. You know, the muscles communicate with the brain.
29:29
Speaker 2: The muscles are still moving, They're telling the brain this
29:32
Speaker 2: organism is doing great. It's adapting and surviving. Continue to
29:38
Speaker 2: think and act youthfully to allow that to happen. We
29:42
Speaker 2: are we serve our ability to move and hunt and
29:46
Speaker 2: and and you adapt. Once we start adapting, then the
29:52
Speaker 2: brain has no reason to continue. That organism is deciduous.
29:55
Speaker 2: It's going to fall off the tree.
29:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't that in interesting When you see somebody who's
30:04
Speaker 1: otherwise healthy and they are they're for whatever reason, usually medically,
30:11
Speaker 1: they're confined to a bed for two weeks or they
30:13
Speaker 1: can't you know whatever, and it's like, oh my god,
30:17
Speaker 1: you look I wouldn't tell them, but you look five
30:20
Speaker 1: years older in two weeks. Like your face is different,
30:23
Speaker 1: your energy is different. You just lost like twenty five
30:27
Speaker 1: percent of your muscle mass in two weeks. It's like
30:30
Speaker 1: your quads are shrinking by the fucking minute. It's like,
30:35
Speaker 1: oh that being like truly immobile, where people are not moving,
30:41
Speaker 1: as in they're not they're not walking, they're not ambulating,
30:44
Speaker 1: they're not getting in and out of bed or in
30:46
Speaker 1: and out of a chair or and that it just
30:50
Speaker 1: disappears so rapidly. It's fucking terrifying.
30:54
Speaker 2: Yep, it does, especially when you don't support the hormones
31:00
Speaker 2: that maintain it. And I know where you are. It's
31:02
Speaker 2: very difficult to get. That's very important and necessary youthful
31:09
Speaker 2: optimized hormone replacement for both men and women.
31:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not happening anytime soon. Here, I'll give you
31:16
Speaker 1: the tip. There's a lot of h history around that,
31:19
Speaker 1: Like but over here, if if people basically test austerlie
31:26
Speaker 1: and replacement therapy for you know, men or women, it's
31:30
Speaker 1: analogous to taking steroids and being a drug cheat. Do
31:35
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying? That's kind of almost the
31:37
Speaker 1: mentality around it, just so much fucking stupidity and ignorance.
31:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll guarantee you that the billionaires in your country, yeah,
31:51
Speaker 2: are going somewhere to get it. Yeah, not because it's expensive,
31:56
Speaker 2: because they're not going to stand for it. So I
32:00
Speaker 2: don't know, you guys are close to other places where
32:02
Speaker 2: you can get it. Maybe Singapore.
32:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, well there's a there's a lot of a lot
32:07
Speaker 1: of people that I know go on extended, extended holidays
32:12
Speaker 1: to Thailand and come back looking like a fucking Olympic
32:17
Speaker 1: athlete three months later. And yeah.
32:19
Speaker 2: Yeah.
32:20
Speaker 1: Anyway, well, Doc, it's always good chatting with you. I
32:24
Speaker 1: just looked up it's already been Nelly Nelly three quarters
32:28
Speaker 1: of an hour. Time flies.
32:30
Speaker 2: I know, it does, it does. Thank you, thanks so.
32:33
Speaker 1: Much for chatting with us. Tell people how they can
32:35
Speaker 1: find you and follow you and connect with you, if
32:37
Speaker 1: you'd be so gracious.
32:40
Speaker 2: You find me once a month on the U Project
32:43
Speaker 2: podcast That's the That's where you should find me, and
32:47
Speaker 2: followed Craig there. He always has good people, good information
32:51
Speaker 2: and sometimes sometimes witty people. I wasn't very witty today.
32:55
Speaker 2: I apologize and then there we We can found at
33:01
Speaker 2: re clebrate r e c E l l E B
33:04
Speaker 2: r a t E re clebrate dot com, at re
33:07
Speaker 2: clebrate on Instagram, LinkedIn, Pinterest, YouTube, you name it, we're there.
33:14
Speaker 1: Get the up, butt a cup. All right, you stayed there,
33:16
Speaker 1: We'll say goodbye our fair Thank you, sir, appreciate you,
33:20
Speaker 1: thank you,