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What If Confidence Means Standing Beside Someone · Divas That Care Network

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's Divas the Care Radio.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Stories, strategies, and ideas to inspire positive change.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Divas that Care, a network of women committed to making our world a better place for everyone.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: This is a global movement for women, by women engaged in a collaborative effort to create a better world for future generations.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: To find out more about the movement, visit divasletcare.com after the show.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right now, though, stay tuned for another jolt of inspiration.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to Confidence in Bloom.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: Today's conversation is especially meaningful because this season is all about collaboration over competition.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: What happens when women stop seeing one another as competition and start recognizing what's possible when we build together?
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: My guest today is Dr.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Sophia Trevena.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: Sophia has a PhD in evolutionary business with a particular focus on collaboration over competition.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: She has built multiple companies with that principle at the center and has worked as an intuitive executive coach with Fortune 500 leaders and hundreds of CEOs around the world.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: And today she's bringing together her background in neuroscience and pharmacology.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: With her work as a professional intuitive to lead scientific research around women's midlife symptoms and develop solutions designed specifically to support women in this stage of life.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: But what really caught my attention is how she built her current company.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Sophia and her best friend Anye have been friends for 26 years.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: And they created their company, Sophonia, as equal 50-50 partners.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: They describe the name as a merger of their names and the best of both of them.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: That idea alone is so beautiful to me because collaboration sounds wonderful when we talk about it in theory.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: But what happens when there's money involved?
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: Big decisions, fear, different options, different opinions.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: What happens when we have something to lose?
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: Something Sophia says there's so much to the story of what they feared when they formed this company that they did what they did with those fears and everything that happened in between.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: And that's exactly the conversation I want to have today.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, welcome, welcome, Sophia.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited for today.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Tina.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Me too.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking forward to our journey.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: So now you've built a career around collaboration and over competition.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: So that makes me curious about the woman behind that philosophy.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, was there a moment or an experience of in your own life that changed the way you understood what collaboration is?
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: And what and like, how did it make you realize that working together could actually create more than competing ever could?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't think I ever thought of it differently.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was always a team sports person, even since I was young.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it was always like everyone has their different strengths, and we need everyone to move the ball down the field.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: It just always came naturally to me to think that way.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was always into the team sports and not the individual ones.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: I've never quite thought of that before, but I often was captain and coordinator and really loved the magic of knowing people's different strengths.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I never actually thought of someone as being better or worse because their strengths were different.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: I just was like, oh, okay, you you love doing that.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it was more so not just what are you good at, but what do you love?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Or what do you really, what draws you, what makes you want to lean into it to get better.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like wherever that motivational energy was was how I organized my teams.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: So really understanding that around each person.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: And then it's like, what are you bringing to the team, right?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: And how can we use your skill and your talent to make this stronger, right?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And where do you and also where do you want to grow?
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because it might not be sometimes people are really strong at something, but they're stagnated with using that strength.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then that doesn't lift the team either.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: So the motivation and how much they're into using it, or if they want to lean into an edge that maybe is not quite so developed, but because they're gonna put their energy into it and they're gonna be really devoted to it and show up for it.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I prefer that to someone that's already really seasoned in it, but kind of done with it.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right, exactly.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I would imagine, I mean, I remember myself growing up, there was there's a lot of competition.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: And there are even like I noticed some of the girls that you know I grew up with, they didn't seem all that competitive when they were um, you know, when we were in school.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: They kind of just, you know, I'm I I mean, when we're in high school, of course, you know, our our minds take us other places, you know, we don't think about necessarily sports, right?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: But I find that a lot of them are still, or even more so, more competitive than they were then.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I I imagine, and then I want kind of want your opinion on this.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: I imagine that's if you live your life always competing or always feeling like you need to compete, we we get, I guess, stronger or better at that competition.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, whatever we practice always becomes more of the focus.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: We just keep rewiring ourselves towards it.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then also bigger things come into play.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, in high school, there's nothing that's really making you compete.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: You just get to go to high school.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: But when you go to university, it starts to get really competitive to get in and then to get the good jobs and the good internships.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: And some people are there to get the right person to be with, and that gets competitive.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, people can turn it into a competition if you think that way, it becomes a lot more prominent, I think.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then like you said, I mean the more we practice competition, the more we think about I want to win, right?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that comes in every area of life, not necessarily just in work or you know, sports.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's you know, you always want to be up as someone.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if you start down that path and you think the world works that way, then that's the world that you end up living in.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: So when I just never saw it that way.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: I always felt like what I'm supposed to do, I'll end up doing.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: And if I'm the right fit, it will happen.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I never, I never lived in the land of rejection or um being defined by being accepted or not accepted.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: It the second you do that, you lose your value.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: My value was intrinsically defined by who I felt I was and how I was doing things.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: And if that was a fit for the job or the guy or the friendship or the trip or whatever, then great.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: And if it isn't, I never took it personally.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why, but I just never saw it as rejection.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's beautiful.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think that that's a common trait.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think, you know, most women I talk to don't feel that way.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I love that, you know, that was in you from you know, always.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's great.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: So you and now your friend's name is Anya, right?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: Am I saying that properly?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's right, Anya.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we've been best friends for 26 years.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: When we say best friend is a tier, yeah, we always say like best friend is a tier, not a person.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: So she's been one of my very close women for a very long time.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: Now you decided to go into business together and you chose to make it an equal 50-50.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: That is like super, I find that incredibly exciting.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um now I imagine that that that also brings on, I mean, like we, you know, I'd already touched on in your intro that that brings on fear, right?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it doesn't matter who we go into business with, there's always fear, right?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: Whether if it's if we're by ourselves or with a partner.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to know like what were you actually afraid might happen.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would say that the only the only thing we said we were really afraid of is that it would hurt the friendship, that we could lose this really, you know, decades-long friendship.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the only time we both cried, like we both were like just got choked up not wanting that to happen.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, at this age, I'm 53 almost, she's 49.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: We've seen a lot of divorce, we've been through divorce, we've seen things that seem like they're gonna last forever, get pulled apart by kids or businesses or moves.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: These things truly happen to the best of us with best intentions that have already lasted decades.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that was the real fear.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we really designed the operating agreement with two lawyers for four months to create the structure that would allow the friendship to become be prioritized.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: And if one of us felt like we were starting to jeopardize the friendship or wanted to, or if either one of us wants to leave for any reason, actually, we can.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: One of us wants to live to move to India, one of us doesn't want to do it anymore.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: We have built in um executive salaries for our work.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: We strongly believe in founders being paid, um, that no one in the model is exploited anywhere, including the founders.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's based on my PhD research as well around non-exploited business models.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: So we've built in the shares that we have as partners 50-50 after you know that we share with our investors.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: But her and I both have the same amount of shares and the investors have shares.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: And if one of us wants to leave or the friendship is starting to be jeopardized, we one of us can leave and we can take the executive salary and give it to and hire somebody else.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: Or we could take over their executive salary and do both jobs if we wanted to, if we thought we could.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so we made it so that no one's trapped.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we're there voluntarily.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we have our system set up that someone could come over, come in and take our jobs if we needed to or wanted to.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we made it so that no one's trapped.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're we choose each other every day, we're not imprisoned by each other every day.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: I really love that.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: I and now I know that um, you know, even like as a husband and wife that go into business together, there's always pressure, right?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, my parents, I mean my parents worked together, I remember, and all they did was talk about business, right?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I was you don't get a break, right?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so, and I had a I when I used to work at the at a bank and we had a client, they were a husband and wife team in there, and they used to say that they had a rule.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: They drove together when they got home, when that was soon as they hit the driveway, excuse me, there was no more business talk, right?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: She said that was the only way that they could make it work.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm curious to know, like, you know, as best friends, you talk, I mean, you you talk about everything, right?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: You talk about work, you talk about your relationships outside of work, you would talk about your clients, you talk about, you know, your your per personal life, your and everything.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: How do where do you draw the line with your friend?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like when we're at work, we talk work only, or is there, okay, I need five minutes, grab a coffee, I need to tell you what happened last night.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, that exactly.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: We this was this has definitely been one of our biggest things we've had to do is figure out the divide.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um we gently in the beginning, we just be like, Are you ready to?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: So my name's Sophia, her name's Anya, the company's Safania.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it's literally one day it came out of my mouth that I blurred our names by accident.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: It was like everything's coming up, and I went to say Sophia and Anya, but I literally blurred it to Safania and it became our joke, and then eventually the company name.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so one of us will say, Oh, are you can I can I talk Sephania right now?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Or are you ready for some heavy Safania stuff?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Or can I share a fun Safanya thing?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: So at least you even know the tone of it.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, we just got bad news or we got good news or whatever.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we we try to actually put in the calendar what is Safania only so we know we're showing up and we merge science and spirituality.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: We're both very intellectual, but we're we're both very spiritual and very intuitive.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we actually have three-day meetings for the spreadsheets and the numbers and the business decisions made from the mind.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: And often those come up with questions we need to ask from intuition, and then we have another meeting where we call it 5D, where we're gonna go into intuition in the field, both get downloads, compare our downloads to inform our decisions.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like we have this opportunity to work with this marketing agency.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go, let's, let's find out, like go to the field, and I'll just we'll both compare what we got.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like I got that they would be really great eventually, but it would take us six months to get up to speed.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I also got it taking longer than we want it to, and that we could have done it on our own in that time.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: So we will compare what we got in intuition.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: So we spread those out.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: We're doing intuition here, we're doing intellect here, and then there's just friend things like on the weekends and in the mornings, especially.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: We try to just stick it with friends, stick with friends, or we'll text each other and be like, can we just have like a BFF chat?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we kind of differentiate spontaneously, but also try to have certain times of day and times and cut-off times.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: We actually try not to introduce heavy topics that are not time sensitive, other than Monday, when Tuesday, Wednesday.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it gives us the week to respond to them.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, sometimes we've gotten heavy things we need to talk about that show up on a Friday afternoon.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: And really, they're not time sensitive and they can wait till Monday when we can really address it.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: So we can both put that thing aside.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe one of us knows about it and the other doesn't yet.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um and we might have something lined up we're really excited about and it falls through.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: One of us knows and the other doesn't.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: We just don't have to talk about it on a Friday afternoon.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: We can just both of us put it down.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like we both don't have to think about it.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Then and we actually have on the calendar things we park there on Monday in that meeting slot.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: So we open the event in the calendar and put bullet points in, and then Monday I open it, and I'm like, oh yeah, that, oh yeah, that.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it's an opportunity to like put it down.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that is a really, really great idea.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I know that you know, time management is huge, right?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, when we're running our own business, it doesn't matter.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, for every single person on the world in the world, right?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we we need to manage our time.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's that's part of it, right?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, I could talk about this right now, but I know it's gonna come up again on Monday when we're in the time slot that we're supposed to be in.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: So that's a really great idea.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: I wonder, like, so you must have friends outside of work that you, the two of you like have, you know, relationships with where you, you know, let's go for Friday night drinks and it's like a group of you.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: Is it easy for you to leave business aside and say, you know, show up as just friends?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, totally.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's our more natural place.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: We've been there for 24 of our 26 years.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it is really easy for us.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: And we enjoy it when we do it.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: And we, it's kind of like when you see your high school friends again and you kind of remember you, you all go, Oh, God, we needed that.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like we'll hit a dance floor, we'll get giggly at dinner, we'll meet some new people and just be Sophie and Anya again.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, we do really enjoy it.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Go to a concert.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: And even the whole time we've been build building the business, we purposefully built, I would say 90% of our conversations have been sitting around a swimming pool.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: We got membership at a co-working space that also has a rooftop pool and a fitness center in Plotties.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we would show up and do some work and then meet some friends for lunch and sit by the pool and do all of our brainstorming and our creative there.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, those work days we got five times done more than when it was a rainy day when we were inside.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: We just plow through it.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was a place where everyone's around the pool with their laptop.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, and it was a lot of CEOs and wellness people.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: So we made it amazing and fun the way we melt the business, a lot of creative.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so yeah, we kind of roll in between both really well and we set it up that way.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: We don't go into an office from nine to five and turn off that part of ourselves.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's that part of ourselves that fuels the magic of Safania, the messaging, how we show up to share what we are here to, you know, just communicate and stand for.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so I want to get to the like the messy part for just a short time.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: So we all know like collaboration doesn't always mean you agree, right?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I would like to know of a time where you and Anya saw, you know, something different within your business, you know, and you knew that you were gonna have to work really hard, right?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: To make the disagreement or the tension become, you know, more smooth.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like I want to know about the experience and and how it taught you sort of the difference between the collaboration and just getting along.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: I get this.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: So we're both not pleasers with each other, and we're also not bitchy with each other.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: We're very like pragmatically like, here's my stance, here's my stance, well, this is why my camp is this way, this is why my camp is this way, but this is what I experienced before.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this is what I experienced before.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: We'll keep going.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we we have been intuitively guided from the beginning.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, really, truly, our intuition told us from the beginning that we are going to disagree a lot, but if we keep talking, we'll actually get to the same place.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: And we have every single time in the two years.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say she thinks it's less.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think about 50% of the time we start at different pages because we I've grown up mostly, I've developed myself mostly outside of America.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: She mostly within America, even though we're both from Canada, we spent our the rest of our most of our lives in different places.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't have children, she has children.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't watch TV, nor do I follow a lot of what's going on in the world.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: She does.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: So we have we come from two different worlds, but it's the beauty of those two coming together that matters so much, and that we need to polish each other's edges.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so we we do it by staying at the table and letting the truth be like said and heard, even if we strongly disagree.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it can be agitating and we can be frustrated, but we never direct it at each other.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: But we will keep going.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: So it can it can look something like this.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, I think one of our biggest disagreements is that I don't see, and I've never had to pay for anything to do with PR.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: I've that I've done many things in my life and everything became front page news nationally, globally, without me ever doing a lifting a finger for it, right?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: So in my world, things like that should happen naturally.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: And in her world, um, you you have to hire an agency that does things for you on a monthly basis or it doesn't happen.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know, she might be right because when I did this, it was 10, 20 years ago, and it was in a whole other geography and culture.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and as far as she knows, I might be right because she's never seen someone do what I did.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so we don't know.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: And we live in these very different camps.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I don't know if I want that money going out the every month, and I don't know that I see the results I would want to see for that amount of money going out.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, I'll die on the hill that we have to play the long game of doing this, and we'll see these results many months from now.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we when we will keep going, and that's I think the only one where we've never come to agreement.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but what we keep doing is experiments around it.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, well, let's do a six-month contract with them and see the results.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end, I'm like, I didn't feel the results that I wanted to see.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: And um also we have like a lag between our funding.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's the perfect time to pause.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: We can't continue right now, but while we can't, why don't we do the experiment and see what we can do without it?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: And we can do my experiment now.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: We're like, oh, okay, great.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's never a I'm right or I'm right or I win.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's always like, oh, these two camps are really strong and have a lot of validation behind both.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: And we gotta do something.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: So let's do this experiment and keep a close eye on it and keep monitoring it, but never with a I was right, told you so, never.
• 20:08
  unknown: Right.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: We still just want to get to the truth.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we both just want to get to the truth.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because you're not competing, right?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's not about I was right and you were wrong, it's more about never we don't know what's gonna work, so let's try both.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's also we and also we boldly and happily say, Oh my god, I was wrong and you were right.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: But it's never like, oh, you were right and I was, you know, we never right, right?
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's not about like rubbing it in your face, it's more like, oh, I guess I learned it you were you had the right idea.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I remember even in high school me saying, Oh my god, I'm totally wrong and you're right.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: And people would be like, No, no, don't be like that.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, no, I'm being honest.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I was totally wrong, and you were right, you had it right the whole time.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad we know now.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: It was never that was so surprising to me when I would say that, and people would take it like I was upset.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like, no, no, I'm literally saying I'm so glad to know you're right and I was wrong.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm okay, I'm okay with being wrong.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: I love being wrong.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: I like I just like the truth.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what it comes down to, right?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's not about, you know, I'm less than because I was wrong.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's more about wow, like I, you know, I've learned something new again, right?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: I really like that.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: And when we go to intuition with these things too, when we went to 5D and them and asked intuition what we should do, we got we should pay less than we were paying, but we should wait till we're bigger.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that agency responds to um people reaching out to us more than us reaching out to them.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it looks like a middle ground is probably gonna emerge if intuition is right, which most of the time it is.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, but it's not that it's not that time yet to know.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: So we're we're holding on to that possibility.
• 21:50
  unknown: Right.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: I can't remember about that one.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if we've tuned into that one together.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because that's a really recent where we're really.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: On this pause recently, but I got it.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then we put it in the next 5D meeting for the two of us to tune in together.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we haven't got together on that one.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: But other ones that we have, we we almost always get the same message.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think we've intuitively got different messages before that I can remember.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's so cool.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think like it's so cool when you sit back and you give your yourself that minute or 10 minutes to just really tune in to what it could be, right?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: I was, you know, I started my career as a mechanical engineer at a big, you know, one of the biggest tech companies in the world.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: It was IBM.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: And um I just did everything by intuition and and helped my teams do the same, even though we didn't call it that.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I I ended up creating language for it.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel a pull for this or a push for the of it?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like when we talk about this idea, who feels a pull?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Who feels a push?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I use that language in my teams forever, even though we never use the word intuition.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that was the early stages of it.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: But the best teams, the best leaders, I've been a C like an executive coach and um intuitive uh channel for hundreds of CEOs in dozens of countries now.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: And the they, you know, we're talking Fortune 500 execs, and they use their intuition.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: They and they describe, they can all describe it too.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm in my 50s there in the 50s and 60s, 70s sometimes, and they can all describe it.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: They can say, oh, I start to see a crosshair in my field.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: I see some light come over to my left eye, or I'll get this tingling in my back, and I know that's it because they're so seasoned and they have to be so present in the decision making and business that they have been paying attention to what their body and mind and feeling was before they made that killer decision that was the game changer.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: And they get known and respected for it, and they need to be able to repeat it.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so at this stage of the game, most of them are using that.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: And we have, instead of doing that as sort of a side thing or something you would kind of talk about if someone pressed you for it, we said, let's put it to the center and let's actually have the daily, weekly check-ins with intuition pragmatically, systematically.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's so cool.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and and the thing is so when I was growing up, right, I'm in my 50s as well, like you.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: No one ever talked about intuition.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, like we made sure of it, if anything.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like I remember hearing, you know, I have a gut feeling, but no one ever really explained to me that that gut feeling was my intuition, right?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then, like you said, everybody's gut feeling is different.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's not always in the gut, right?
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, yeah, like you said, you know, sometimes they see something to the left or they get the tingling in the back.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's your body sending you the message, right?
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like we have, we've all heard of that book, you know, your body keeps the score, right?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: Our bodies talk to us, but not in English.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, right.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's how we look at that, right?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you know, this is so I when I was developing this, you know, 30 years ago, I died for a book like this.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't have access to a book like that at that time.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: I and I ended up writing a number of them.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: So there's one Living from Inner Clarity, How to Clear Your Energy, Access Your Higher Truth to Live Your Freedom.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it literally is my favorite little tools of how to actually use your intuition your way and test what your way is and practice it so it's reliable.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I I basically wrote the little manual I wish I had 30 years ago for that.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then I also have a um 10 module course broken down to five minute chapters, each on developing your intuition with a ton of exercises and examples and you know, all that I've learned over the decades of training CEOs to use their own intuition even more.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm learning from them as well.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: So both of those are available on my website.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're my two biggest resources.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's excellent.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, we'll have to take a look at that because I think, you know, intuition has been talked about a lot in the last five years.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like major, I mean, even myself, like sure, I'm I'm I feel like I'm more in tuned with it now than I was five, 10 years ago.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: But I would like to grow it more, right?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: Because there's sometimes questions come up, and I'm like, I honestly don't know how to answer that, right?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's when your your brain can go so far, it can gather all the information.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: And the great thing, the brain is great, just like AI, great at making a case.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: And you can make a case for choice A and choice B and they look equal.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: And just like this one with Anya and I with the with the P heart, like we actually don't know entirely.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, are people is are people gonna love this pump or that pump on our face oil?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: Or is this color gonna be one that you know works with that label printer or not?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: You kind of have to play it out sometimes, but you really can direct your consciousness to future fields and feel what the what the person who opens this box of Stefania's beautiful skincare and as they experience what parts they care about, what they don't care about.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Any and I've sat and been like, we are the person at the end of this process, this journey of creating this experience, a product.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: And and what do they feel when they open it?
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: And what do they need to see?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: And what do they care about?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll both say, I saw a little card with a love note from us, me too.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: I saw a heart and our name signed on it.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: And and we did that, and we made that.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I also see like a little sticker with our logo.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: Our logo is an ancient symbol for energy, and you literally feel a transmission when you see it.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like you just you feel like energy is being given to you.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I see a little sticker with it, with a little explanation and that it's this beautiful, you know, ancient symbol that has energy in itself, and to put it somewhere where you need to feel empowerment.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: So we did that.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of these things came from intuition.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't come up with them, we didn't think of them.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: We went into the future, felt what our future woman opening our products would want to feel because we feel a belovedness with them, you know.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: We were suffering with skincare, skin changing in midlife, with sleep deteriorating, with brain fog.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: And these products for us solve all of that.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: And we're just thinking of the millions of women that are out there that don't deserve to suffer.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why our mission is center women of all the world, because it's center women through their nervous system, which is what our supplement tonics do, and our skin care does the same.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's good for the nervous system.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're like those women are out there suffering, not feeling centered.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: And what is the journey that we create that they have, they feel what we intend for them, which is that awakening to them, their vibrancy again, and being like, oh, my skin doesn't have to go backwards, it can go forwards and even be better than it's ever been, which has happened to a lot of us.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: So long story short, is like when you use these gifts that we have and grow them more and realize that you can really transcend time and space and go into real fields of future reality and get information that helps you back design what you do now, it's a game changer.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: You can do in months what would take companies years to do.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it's what I've been doing with the hundreds of CEOs I worked with for that's what they say.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: A session with me is like a year of business planning and therapy in one.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because it allows you to sort of go with the flow, right?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: The momentum just automatically happens when you actually do what your body wants and needs to do, right?
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: And we fight it, right?
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's what it comes down to.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: We want like our unconscious mind and our conscious mind are working almost against each other, right?
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: Creating that intuition to be pushed even further behind.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: I always say that we all have intuition, we're not the only animal without instinct, right?
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: But we've we've used our minds to override it rather than work with it.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: And my pushed it away to do the opposite, is to do the opposite.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: How can we use the intellect to form a question to let the intuition work with us?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like AI is coming close to making us do the same thing.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of telling AI what to do, we're needing to tell it the end game of what we want so it can create for us.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: And intuition is very similar.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of going, um, I'm I want to make, I want to make our box look like this.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: We go into the field and go, what does the box want to look like from the future field of the experience that we hope these wonderful women will have?
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love that.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we can talk intuition for a long time because I think well, I think that there's not enough people, you know, that I talk with that don't understand it, right?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like we all have it, like you said, it's all a part of us.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: We just have to learn how to tune into it and listen to it and trust it, right?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's a big thing, right?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it you and I think it really takes personal experience.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: No one can tell you, which is why I created the course and the book as a manual for you to practice tools and give you a whole variety of them because everyone does it differently.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: Some people have signs, some people have dreams, some people see things, some people hear things, some people get the prickly, you know, goosebumps.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a whole training on what are your signs, how to practice in very benign ways.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, really, a really fun one is just having getting together with someone that doesn't know you very well.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, you and I could do it and be like, um, tell me about my high school prom.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you just go in and you try to tell me as much as you can.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: Just and you're it's surprising how much you can tell from someone when you're open and curious.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I give you some exercises about how to set yourself up for it and breathe and sort of block out your own thoughts.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: But so there's some lead up to it, but it's a fun exercise.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's low pressure.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing to lose.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's something fun to do with someone.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: You can even know them well because you don't know everyone's prom story.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then you start to get the experience of, oh, I actually saw it out of the left of my eye.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: I saw your dress or I saw what you felt like.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Or the woman that did it with me, she said, um, I see, I just feel you're there with a friend.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: You're not in love with anyone, it's not sexy, which is weird because my first problem is when I lost my virginity.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it's weird that I'm seeing a feeling a friend feeling for you.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, yep, I went with a friend, my boyfriend wasn't there.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: So just and it's a really great and so, but imagine you get comfortable with that in practice, and all of a sudden it's a business decision that's worth.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen people use this for business decisions that are worth millions of dollars.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know, do I sell for this million, many million or this many million?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: And they try on each one.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: And the whole, you know, once you have a team doing this, we have six investors and we get together twice twice a month to do this, and you can tune in.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: And when all six of you get the same answer, it's really powerful.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: I can, I would love to be a fly on the wall, to be honest, you know, in a room full of all that, because that's powerful, right?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: And you feel it, right?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's like when you walk into a room and there's just been an argument, you feel that, you feel that tension.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: So something like that where there's like a huge decision made, you would feel that as well.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I oh my gosh, I love this.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: Now, one of the things I love about collaboration is the opportunity to to really celebrate, you know, each other, right?
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: And and then, but it also, you know, it it that can also sort of sometimes take away from each other as well.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'd like to know what it's like between you and Anya.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: I I I I feel like I'm saying her name wrong, Anya.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: Anya, yeah, yeah.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: Can you remember a moment when like one of you really got to shine and maybe the other one was sort of completely behind?
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: And how did that how did you sort of I guess deal with that?
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: How do you like, you know, like okay, so today is my day to shine, but tomorrow will be yours?
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'd like to know how you manage that.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, interesting.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know if we if we do the today is my chain, my time to shine, but tomorrow will be yours.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't even think we do that second half.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: We're just like, oh my God, today's your day to shine.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: This is amazing.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: There doesn't even need to be, don't worry, you'll have yours too.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: That way it's just like yeah, yeah.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: But when, you know, we both published books.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: She published her memoir, um, Blow Up Your Life just in July, just months ago.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: I published my memoir two years ago, and then a few more books after that.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and my memoir is all about living by intuition.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's the first few years I decided to live entirely by intuition for anyone that wants that example of like how that actually emerged for me as a scientist.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, mine's called Life Beyond What You Know.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: What if you decided to live entirely by intuition?
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: So she was there when I launched my memoir, and we she she had been working on her first for years.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'd been working on mine for eight years, she'd been working on hers for seven years or something.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: And we didn't even talk about her memoir.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't even say I there was not even a thought of one day you'll have your memoir too.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was just only celebrating me.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: And when her memoir came out, uh it was just celebrating her memoir.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it was also when we're launching our first product of or our second product of Safania, our face oil and serum, which are two of our most beautiful products that deserved a lot of limelight.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: And her memoir came out at the exact same time, and we just kept them very separate.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: We celebrated her memoir entirely, we celebrated the products entirely, and and that there was nothing of mine in there at all.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just we don't even think about don't worry, yours is coming soon.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like it's more standalone, like, oh, this is amazing.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I also flashed back to her marriage when she was getting married and I was her maid of honor.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when, you know, we were in our late 20s, I'm gonna guess.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I was in my early 30s.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I did really want to get married and I hadn't met anyone yet.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I was single, and I remember being at her wedding and being her maid of honor, and my shoes really, really hurt, and she took off her wedding shoes and she put them on, and we winked at each other.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a wink of wear my wedding shoes, like be the bride.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, like wear my shoes for a date.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: But it wasn't like because you're not gonna get it, or because you deserve to get it, or don't worry.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: It was just like, oh, like your feet hurt, wear my shoes.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just like, Oh.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love that.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: See, that's that's friendship, right?
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's like I've got your back, like you don't need to worry.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm I'm here for you.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's great.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're really good at making it all about the other person without really a thought about when it's gonna be about us.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's awesome.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: So now you've been so you've I mean you've been friends for a really long time.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you've been in business, I think two years.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: Now, obviously, business doesn't, you don't wake up one morning and say, let's start a business, right?
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, obviously before that two years started, you know, you were, you know, collaborating on ideas, right?
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like we could do this or we could do that.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we do that all the time, right?
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like my my daughter, she has a friend that they've been friends for, I don't know, 10, 15 years now.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: And she's, you know, they're always, oh, we could do this together and we could do that together.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: Now, if that ever really turns into anything, nobody really knows, right?
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: But that's how friendships start, right?
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like, oh, you know, because it's a commonality you have between each other.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm curious to know over the years.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, obviously you start as new friends and now as business partners, how has that changed you, like as a woman?
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how does, you know, because we you grew together, right?
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's what friends do, right?
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: We grow together.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_02: Do you like maybe believe in yourself more than you did before?
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: Or do you feel that you maybe grew that, you know, that belief in yourself, that trust in yourself together because of her?
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm curious to know how the friendship has evolved.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, in our 20s, our common ground was that we both had the worst dogs in the park.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: We were both trying to tame our dogs in the dog park.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we loved to be with them, but also go out and have fun.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: But then we'd have these deep conversations about life and especially around we saw relationships really similar and we wanted something deeper than most people around us.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: And we both were the first to go to therapy and talk about what we're going to therapy for.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: And like that was all in our 20s, like decades ago.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then it, I wouldn't, I would, I would venture, and I don't know what she would say, but to me, it didn't even occur to me us doing something together until we were doing it.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: As in, our paths looked so different for so long.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: She, you know, was in New York and Chicago having a family and kids, and I was in Hawaii being doing my PhD and becoming a professor and leading a sustainability movement without kids.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: We were just living these incredibly different lives, and we'd fly across the country to see each other and be together and we talk a lot, but it just never even seemed we'd live in the same geography.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: And if you looked at what we're doing, it looked so different.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: She was doing sales and marketing for wellness and supplements and skid care.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was leading sustainability in business and never thought about products at all, never wanted to.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then all of a sudden, I was facing in my early 40s my skin falling apart and the sleep and the all of the things falling apart.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, using my intuition, I said, you know, if you can guide me and guide these CEOs into intuitive business models that work magically, then give me a formula for body oil or for something to put in my body.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I literally channeled the exact formula, like avocado, organic avocado oil, 500 milliliters, blah blah blah, 200 milliliters, blah blah blah, exactly the recipe.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: And an ounce of this essential oil, two ounces of this essential oil.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I couldn't believe it.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I went and ordered everything and I mixed it, and it was the most heavenly scent to this day.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone is like, it is the most heavenly scent.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, it was literally given from angels.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: I did not come up with the scent.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it is, I didn't realize that I went and did the research after as a scientist, but the blend of organic oils are this diverse size of molecules, so it rebuilds the skin in a way that that just pumps it and it smooths it.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: And anyways, I was using this for my for years, and then my clients during COVID were like, What are you doing?
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: I said, I have to try to mix my body oil during COVID.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, What are you talking about?
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I told them the formula and they all ordered it.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: They were like, This is insane.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: So then it happened with the, you know, with the morning nerve tonic, the which is calm and clear tonic, and everyone's like, Oh, I can't remember my zip code, but now I remember my credit card number and um oh, I'm going to sleep and staying to sleep through the night with the sleep tonic.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: So all of Any was watching me develop these for myself.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: And only like a month before we we were guided to join forces to bring these products to market, I swear it was a month before that I had the intuition that I was supposed to, that these products weren't just for me and my clients, that I had been given, that I had channeled that these formulas, that they were supposed to be given to the world and I was supposed to form a company.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: And she was watching that, going, Wow, you know, I really think you're supposed to do that.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: It feels really right to me.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, geez, I never thought of doing that, starting a company.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm an executive coach now for a decade.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: I never thought I'd make my own company again.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so she was the first investor and put money towards it and gathered some other investors.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then I gathered another investor.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then one day by the pool, we our guides came to us and said, You're not just supposed to be an investor, you're supposed to do this 50-50.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: And we looked at each other and we're like, actually, you have all that experience and I have all this experience, we should put it together.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's how it began.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, I love that.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: That is so cool.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, honestly, it's so I mean, we all come into our partnerships in, you know, in our own ways, but that's like, you know, it can't get any smoother than that.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: It was guided.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: We wouldn't have come up with it on our own.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: And we actually went to a tree and sat under a tree and we held hands and we closed our eyes and we tried on doing it and we tried on not doing it.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: And not doing it, she was like, I'm just gonna sit, watch you do it, wishing I would have done it with you.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I'm gonna just be sitting there alone wishing you were doing it with me.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly, exactly.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: What would you tell another woman or any woman who's afraid uh that another woman's success might somehow threaten hers?
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'd ask her to go back and find out who taught her that and see where that comes from.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: That has nothing to do with that other woman.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: It has something to do with something she was trained that was never hers in the first place.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, for real.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: And heal heal that sister wound that a lot of a lot of parents pin daughters against each other, a lot of guys pin women against each other.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: Patriarchy pins women against each other.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, yeah.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: And if they don't want to go back and do the work to heal the original, you know, the original uh wound, what they can do is start healing it anyways by meaning into celebration of that woman.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just pushing the jealousy aside, pushing.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, totally.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: If someone listening today wants to move from competition into collaboration, where would you tell her to start?
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, I think it's really important to get up hierarchies and get into networks, as in find out where you feel someone's above you or below you, and instead see them as someone that has a has different ownership, different responsibility, different skill set, and see how you can turn it more into power with rather than power over.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good one.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_02: Now, when you look back at you know, all your years in business.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: And in friendships.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: What would you say you're the most proud of?
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: Not just necessarily what you've built, but in more in like how you've built it.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's the power with that that's been core in everything I've done.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: I have another book called The Power of the Divine Feminine in Business.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really about these types of values and structures and business coming back to the center, like incorporating intuition, incorporating collaboration, and not just doing it once in a while, but making it the pillar of the design of the structure.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: So it's in there.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because what I found, I did my PhD in looking at how businesses could be beneficial to people in the planet rather than exploitive.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I found that all the businesses that were doing so did the same seven things.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: But only a few years later did I realize all those seven things were feminine ways.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so they had the ones that brought back the feminine ways with the masculine, planning and emergence, intellect and intuition, um, structure and flow, you know, organization.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: But so, but it was like the organization was power with as an ecosystem, with everyone knowing the role.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: There's no benefit for a bear thinking it's an acorn or vice versa.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: Be what you are, but know where your value is and where it isn't, and stay in your lane and be a network that's organized around the mission rather than in a hierarchy organized around superior, inferior.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's that's like everything that way.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: That is, and there's so much um like value just in believing that, like in knowing that, right?
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like just hearing that.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm like, yeah, like, I mean, if you think of like it's when you start to to use the words to just, you know, to to decipher between one and the other, right?
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: That you start going, oh yeah, that's what I do, or maybe I need to do more of that.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you can just be, you can just take inventory.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really big on taking inventory just for a week.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: Watch where you feel power over someone else, and watch where you feel power over you.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then look at that at the end of the week and go, where could I turn that into power with?
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like their their benefit and my their strength and my strength coming together, or their strength and my weakness coming together.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we can, and and then the other thing is where do we organize our energy and our purpose around survival and performance and keeping our job and pleasing someone versus the mission?
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: Centering power on the mission automatically creates collaboration.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, absolutely.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, this is so awesome.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_02: I love this conversation.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_02: So, is there anything that you um want our listeners to hear today, Sophia, that we didn't talk about yet?
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would just really invite people to come to our SafaniaWellness.com website.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: I know that this is something you're going to talk about anyways or put in the show notes, but I mean, I really feel like the sacred rituals, the guided meditations that Anya and I weave together are just such a beautiful experiential journey of two women taking their gifts and turning it into a journey you can actually experience.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: And every product comes with a QR code that takes you to one of our guided journeys so that you're not just putting on the body oil to replenish your skin, but you're also taking a sacred moment, you're telling yourselves how wonderful they are to activate the belief, the belief system in your body, which is healing and nourishing in itself.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you could actually have an experience of two women collaborating by enjoying our sacred rituals on our website.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if you're a woman in midlife or entering midlife and you're starting to feel any of these things, like the, you know, less ability to fall asleep or especially stay asleep, waking up feeling refreshed and even looking younger and feeling younger, all of the skincare is like organic and um bioavailable.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's cold pressed, it's the highest, highest quality, and that matters at our age.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: So if you wanted to try any of the things, but especially the sacred ritual, which is absolutely free, you could actually experience two women of 26-year friendship weaving our intuitive gifts into a guided journey for you.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that would be my big invite.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love it.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_02: I love this conversation so much.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think women collaborating together is amazing, right?
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, we've seen over the years, you know, women, we we we've lived in a man's world for so long that when we see women, you know, working, really, you're working hard.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's not, you know, it's not like it, uh, it just happens.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_02: No, you have to put a lot of effort and a lot of work into it.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_02: And when it works this easily, I mean, it sounds like it's, you know, I know it's not easy.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_02: I I know that's the word I'm gonna use.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_02: I know it's not easy, right?
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_02: And it's definitely not simple, but it works, right?
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_02: And you're making it just such a beautiful experience for yourselves and your clients.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_02: And that's just so it's so heartwarming, you know, to see that.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you so much.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for being here today.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for all your time.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, thank you.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you as well.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: I look forward to hearing this.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's really been a powerful conversation.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for your work too.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's really putting something out important for everyone.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, thank you.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_02: I so loved this conversation with Sophia.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think what I'm taking away is that collaboration isn't about dividing up the work or having someone beside you, it's really about creating trust that you can bring your whole self to the table and allowing someone else to bring all of who they are to.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I especially love the idea of Sophania: a merger of your names and the best of both of you.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_02: Because maybe that's what's true collaboration, that's what true collaboration can look like.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: Not one person becoming smaller so the other can be bigger, not one person winning while the other loses.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_02: Both women becoming more because they choose to build together.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for sharing what you've built with us, Sophia.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_02: But some of the fear, the uncertainty lessons, and all the stories behind it.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think those are the pieces that women can really connect with.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_02: For everyone listening, if Sophia's story has sparked something in you, I encourage you to connect with her and learn more about the work she and Anya are doing.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_02: You can find her through the links in today's show notes.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I want you to, I want to leave you with this.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_02: Where in your life are you still trying to compete, prove, or figure it out all on your own?
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_02: When there might actually be another woman who could build something beautiful alongside you.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because sometimes confidence isn't about standing alone.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes confidence is knowing who you can stand beside.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_02: If you're a woman who knows there's some another chapter waiting for you, but you're not quite sure what that chapter looks like yet, I'd love to connect with you.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_02: You can reach out to me for a coaching session or come join us here at Confidence in Bloom, where we're creating space for women to reconnect with themselves, trust what they know, and step into what's next.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_02: So until next time, remember you don't have to become someone else to bloom.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_02: You get to become more fully yourself.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: This show was brought to you by Divas That Care.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: Connect with us on Facebook, on Instagram, and of course on divas that care.com, where you can subscribe to our newsletter so you don't miss a thing.