Latest / World Ablaze with George Fontes / Alex Kain 'The Philosophy - A Critical Upgrade For Humanity'

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Alex Kain 'The Philosophy - A Critical Upgrade For Humanity' · World Ablaze with George Fontes

• 0:00
  okay listeners watchers i have another guest today i have alex kane author philosopher you're an
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  entrepreneur as well um optimizing businesses in their systems you know help them do better
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  from what i read and your book very interested you have it on the screen already uh the philosophy
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  and I think it's much needed
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  because from what I was,
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  I didn't really read into the book so much.
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  I did, you know, the summary
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  and reading about everything
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  that you had online and available
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  before we set this up,
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  which thank you.
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  It's kind of last minute.
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  So thanks for being there,
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  especially for you being all the way in Australia
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  over Melbourne.
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  Is that correct?
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  Yeah, Melbourne.
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  Awesome.
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  Melbourne.
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  Well, I'm going to mispronounce it.
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  I'm a Yankee,
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  so I'm not going to get it right.
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  I do have listeners out there too,
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  So this is really good.
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  So let's talk humanity 2.0.
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  Let's talk about how you came to be where you are, what basically led you to write this
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  book and the world in general as it sits right now, because I think I'm in agreement with
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  you.
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  We need to look at things differently.
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  We need to almost reset how we think things as humans and how we interact.
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  So, I mean, if you can, just give us a little background.
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  How did you come to be where you are right now?
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  And why this book?
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  Why this book and why now?
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  And why me?
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  Why you?
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  Well, hell, why anybody?
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  Well, I'll start off by saying the idea of even writing a book was so foreign to me.
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  I don't even read books, to be completely honest.
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  And in fact, when I was at school, I paid my sister 50 cents to read the books and tell me what they were about.
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  So the idea of writing a book was really not on my horizon.
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  However, as you rightly pointed out, I have done a lot of entrepreneurship.
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  I've been in business for a number of years, a number of different businesses.
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  My more recent one is around business process optimization, looking at businesses, understanding
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  how they function and trying to find ways to improve them.
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  A lot of that's to do with technology and automation and that sort of thing.
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  but it was kind of that area that I was operating in on a daily basis of looking at organizations
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  pulling them apart trying to understand how they work and trying to see does it make sense how
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  you're operating and can you do better and it was that way of thinking that I began to think how can
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  I apply this to society? You know, looking at how we operate and what are the systems and processes
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  that govern society. And, you know, rather than starting from a point of being dug in on a
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  viewpoint, just really be very neutral about things and just go, well, hang on a minute,
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  does this actually make sense anymore to be doing this? And that's kind of where this all came about.
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  And I guess it was from my own success that I was having and looking around the world and looking in my backyard and just going, something feels off to me.
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  You know, I can be successful.
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  I can be doing really well.
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  But when I look around me and see other people doing it really tough, I ask the question, is this really what success is?
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  Is this what it means for me as an individual and for us as a society?
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  that is the question i think everybody gets to a point where they ask that um especially as we get
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  older and we have to challenge the notion of what success is i'm so similar to you but not in
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  the industry but i i've owned six businesses myself um one of them still operating 27 years later
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  um and uh then i'm also doing this podcasting here but you know at some point you do start to
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  ask, what is all this for? You're chasing the dollar for what? I'm starting to get the point
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  where I value life, life experiences and my time more than I'm actually enjoying running the
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  business, so to speak. So in everything that you have learned, just through your reflections and
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  through your observations, what do you say to people who are busy chasing their tail for what
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  they view as success or as the world is presenting it to them.
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  Like we're supposed to achieve this certain measure of success, but then even that representation
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  of success itself is a falsehood.
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  So what would you recommend to people and how they can get their lives on the right
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  path?
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  And also, let's not dismiss that the value of money is important.
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  I mean, we do live in societies that we've created where your life may only be as good
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  as how much you pay for it at some point.
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  with certain luxuries, correct?
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  But at the same time,
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  how can we make people shift
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  from that focus of only looking at the dollar,
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  the dollar value,
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  and also looking more towards
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  what makes a more meaningful life
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  and how do you get that balance?
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  That's a question I'm asking anyway.
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  Yeah.
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  And look, that's actually the opening sentence
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  of the book is what's the point?
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  What's the point of life?
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  Are we here just to make money?
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  Is that what it is?
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  And, you know, clearly the answer is no, but society, I guess, pushes that on us that success is accumulate wealth and then accumulate more wealth.
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  And, you know, that's how you become successful.
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  And, you know, the motto of he who dies with the most toys wins, unfortunately, is prevalent in many pockets of society, but not for everyone.
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  And I think what we realize is the success that's been modeled to us at some point in our lives begins to feel hollow.
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  Because, you know, as you get a bit older and you get life experience under your belt, you start to think, well, you know, I've got so many years left on this earth.
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  I could spend all of them working and accumulating money or I could find other ways of attaining meaning.
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  And I think what we've done is we've said success is associated with wealth and wealth
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  is associated with what we do and what we do gives us meaning.
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  And I'm saying that there are other ways to find meaning in life.
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  You know, meaning can be contribution and not everything needs to be salaried to be meaningful.
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  You know, when we look after people in aged care or we're, you know, doing other community
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  work. That is contribution. That is meaningful, yet it's not remunerated. And so it's looked down
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  upon. And I think we need to find other ways to see that success can be contribution across
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  a whole plethora of different fields. So let's go back and talk about how we can get people to see
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  it from that point of view though? What are the things they can do to kind of tune up their
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  approach as someone who looked at fixing system processes or making it more efficient? How could
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  someone apply that to their life and pursue the things that matter? I wish that my book was a
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  self-help book and it could say, well, you know, decide to see the world through different eyes
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  and it's fixed for you. But it doesn't operate that way because you've still got to operate
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  within the paradigm that the world currently operates in, right?
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  So this is, the book is really about we need a societal shift.
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  We need a global shift.
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  You know, it's not about me choosing to see, I mean, I can,
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  I can go and live on a commune, unplug from the grid
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  and do my own thing and find a meaningful life.
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  But then there's still going to be pressures from governments
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  and other things that will come to bear upon me
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  that I can't work in a siloed environment and think,
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  well, I've got total control over my life.
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  So it really is something that needs to happen on a large scale.
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  And it starts with questioning the current systems that exist.
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  You know, I question the education system, the legal system,
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  the political system, the economy.
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  All these things are contributing to how we currently live.
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  and we need to change them.
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  But in order to change them,
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  we need to desire to see things differently.
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  And that's the starting point is unless,
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  you know, we can say,
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  let's make the world a better place
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  and let's do more humanitarian things.
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  But unless you see that as an important goal
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  for inclusion, equality,
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  just good humanitarian values,
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  then you'll prioritize other things. You'll make profits more important than looking after people.
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  And so it's those kind of that shift in perspective that needs to happen first. And so
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  the book is essentially talks about the way we do that is to re-engineer our education system so
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  that we get to kids from a very young age and teach them about respect, empathy, gratitude,
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  about values so that they grow up to be good politicians, they grow up to be good economists,
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  they start seeing the world in a different light than they do today. And that's really,
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  I'd love to say there's a magic fix today, but there's not. It is a longer term strategy. It is
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  a multi-generational approach. But if we don't start now, it just doesn't happen. Now, a lot of
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  people will say, well, you know, the education system is just responsible for educating our kids.
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  Don't go teaching our kids values. That should come from the home. But as we know, that's quite
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  variable in terms of what gets taught in every home. So, and, you know, the parents of today,
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  many of them are already quite flawed themselves. So what they're passing down is just propagating
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  that. So it's really about, can we change the education system today from simply being
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  institutions for learning math, science, to becoming incubators for nurturing great human
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  beings? And I think if we can position learning institutions to become more responsible for that,
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  for actually incubating great human beings by instilling values
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  and teaching those sorts of things as importantly as math and science,
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  then I think we've got a good chance that in the next 20, 30, 40 years
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  to start to see kids coming out of school who begin to have a different view of the world.
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  So, okay, so that sounds more like we need to re-engineer society in general.
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  Yeah, because if I say to you, go and fix homelessness today, I mean, you'll say, well,
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  you know, we've got other priorities and we've got, you know, we're going to need more money
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  for homes. We're going to need this. We're going to need that. At the end of the day,
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  there's enough resources in the world today to solve homelessness. It's really about what's our
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  will to want to do that. And unless we tackle that first, we can keep commanding people to do
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  things, but unless you're thinking that that's an important priority, why would you bother?
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  Well, and honestly, homelessness, depending on where you are, is a much more complex issue than
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  just giving people homes as well. I mean, you have, I've known many people in different
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  ministries, for example, or other organizations to where they actually work with homeless
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  people. So there is, you know, yeah, we have the resources, but then there's also the person has
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  to accept that they want to change themselves as well.
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  And I have experienced this firsthand.
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  I've seen it.
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  So, you know, it's not an easy approach.
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  But as far as what you said with resources, yeah, we do have the ability now to just get
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  rid of homelessness, you know, in terms of homelessness is concerned.
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  But we still have to work with people's mental faculties.
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  We got to work with them on an emotional level to make sure that they're ready for the change
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  and accept it as well.
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  And then we also have the other problem where a lot of the homeless that are out there,
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  at least I'm talking about from my experience here where we live in America and what I've
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  seen a lot of them lost their caregivers because they were on medications and they needed in care or they at a house where they needed this And then all of a sudden the funding cut and they have nowhere to go And then they on the streets and they didn choose that So there a lot of issues there And I agree we have the
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  resources, correct. But we also have to look at the individual. We got to look at what they're
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  going through emotionally and mentally and see if we can fix that as well.
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  But that also needs resources as well to support them.
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  So we need to make sure that the system provides those resources. Again, it comes down to budget.
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  Do we allocate it to that or do we put it somewhere else?
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  Yeah.
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  I can see that.
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  So let's talk about the education a bit more.
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  So do you believe that there should be possibly standardized,
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  we should be teaching a standardized way of living in general,
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  like a standardized society in education?
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  Because the idea of parents being parents and educators just being educators,
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  If we're going to, how would we safely, based on what you were just saying, how would we, in your mind, by the way, I'm not saying, this is just your opinion, I get it.
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  But how, in your opinion, would we safely be able to play the role of parent and educator when it comes to public education without going too far and taking the role away from parents entirely?
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  Well, I would argue that the role of parents is inconsistent right now anyway, right? So you're going to have some households where values are handed down and they're great values and you want that to happen. And that should keep happening. We're not saying we're removing that.
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  But at the same time, there are families where there are absent parents.
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  You know, they have to work or they're not around and the kids are left to their own devices and things just happen.
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  And if they're not getting it in the home environment and they're not receiving it at school currently, where are they getting it from?
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  They'll, you know, they will congregate with other like-minded people and, you know, form gangs and other things where they feel a sense of belonging.
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  And so we want to try and hand those down at a very young age in an age-appropriate and culturally sensitive way, right?
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  So that you will have your current curriculum in the school teaching your normal subjects, but you will also have life skills being taught.
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  You will also have values almost as a co-curriculum that exists alongside the standard curriculum.
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  Now, there'll be some parents that won't like what's being taught to them in the school as
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  values because it doesn't agree with their values. But there are certain foundational values that,
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  you know, respect, empathy, gratitude, these things, you know, you can't really argue with
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  them. They are standard things that would change the world. I mean, at the end of the day,
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  so many of the world's problems come down to a lack of respect that we have for each other and
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  for the planet, right?
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  And if they were firmly ingrained in our young people
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  from a very young age, they would start to see the world
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  in a different way.
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  And I think it's that that we need to focus on.
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  It's not trying to take away anything from parents.
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  In effect, it's trying to support them and provide
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  that additional platform for the kids to learn.
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  And they're learning it then with their peers as well.
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  So then they can discuss it and they can talk about it.
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  And it's openly shared.
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  And then, you know, when they graduate, think about what sort of people they will be compared
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  to, you know, some of those homes where those kids haven't had very much taught to them.
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  So it's more about teaching societal, agreed upon societal moral tenets, basically.
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  rather than just, yeah.
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  And that makes sense.
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  I think we used to have that a bit years ago.
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  And yeah, there was civics,
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  there was, you know,
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  there was all sorts of subjects,
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  but they've gone by the wayside.
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  And now that I know here in Australia,
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  the curriculum is just packed full of stuff
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  and it's hard to get anything else in at the moment.
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  But I think it's also because we don't,
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  we don't prioritize it, you know,
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  values versus a subject
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  that you can go on to university through,
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  well, we know what's going to get the attention, right?
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  Right.
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  But I think that's what we're lacking.
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  If we saw that these values are the foundations
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  of society and social norms,
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  then we would see them as important enough
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  to deserve that much attention.
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  But they just don't get them these days,
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  and it's a shame.
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  How about also getting away from
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  how education, and I'm not sure how it is around the world, but it seems to be similar,
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  but getting away from an education system that is based around an industrial revolutionary view,
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  you know, modeled after I'm going to work at this time, getting off at this time. These are my
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  prescribed breaks. This is my prescribed launch, the whole deal. It seems like we're just being
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  programmed and have been for such a long time. There's another way to do that, especially in
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  the modern world, right? And when we're talking about preparing people for work. So do you think
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  that we can ever get away from that and basically update the educational system to actually
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  integrate people into modern society? A hundred percent. You know, I talk in the book that the
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  education system is a throwback from the industrial revolution, right? Where the goal there was to
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  produce as many people to go out into the workforce to provide the highest GDP for the
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  country, right? That was it. And that was the factory mentality. Just push through as many
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  people as you can and get them producing. And unfortunately, that still exists today to some
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  extent. You know, there are other models available to it. I look at, you know, like the Montessori
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  model of education, where there's more focus on the individual and nurturing their inherent
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  talents rather than mass producing everywhere.
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  Everyone goes through the same machine and then you come out at the end and hope that
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  you've done okay.
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  But I think there's not enough attention given to nurturing the individual.
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  Like if I'm an artistic person at a very young age, but I'm forced to go through and learn
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  economics and other things that may not be of interest, or I have to learn cos, sign, tan,
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  and math that I'll never use. I don't understand why we persist with doing that now. If we can
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  understand a child's natural talents and natural inclinations in a certain direction at a younger
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  age, we should be fostering that. So everyone should get a foundational amount of knowledge
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  about how the world works.
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  There should be a base level.
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  Absolutely.
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  But I think we need to be specializing more
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  towards what a child needs
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  at an earlier stage than we do now.
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  Yeah, I don't disagree with that
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  because it seems that people feel pressured
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  to become something that they're told society wants.
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  You know, like,
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  choose what you want to be when you get out of school.
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  You got to go to this college
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  to get this profession, etc.
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  And I think a lot of people fall into things they don't really want.
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  They're compromising so that they can get the,
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  as we were talking about earlier, a paycheck, you know,
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  to fit in society, you know, neatly, right. And check the boxes.
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  So I think that approach is, is much more needed. So yeah,
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  I can agree with that. We do need to look at it differently.
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  If we had a base agreed upon baseline knowledge,
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  and then we're able to branch people off and, you know,
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  and everybody's going to, they're going to gravitate towards, you know,
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  things like arts, engineering, etc. I mean, people naturally do that. And you just got to
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  be able to encourage those individuals become the best they can at those things.
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  So yeah, we probably need better tools to know that earlier on, to understand that that's where
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  a child's heading.
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  Detect that, correct.
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  Yeah. And then foster them in that direction. I know when I was at school, I enjoyed doing drama
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  and acting and all that sort of stuff. So to continue learning, you know, mathematical stuff
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  for me, I wasn't enjoying it. And it makes a child feel like a failure when they're not succeeding.
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  It's something that they don't enjoy doing. They're not passionate about it, but they're
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  forced to do it. It doesn't make any sense that that's what we do to our kids.
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  No, I get it. I mean, I wasn't the best student. I used to get bored, literally. School bored me.
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  I'll admit it. It bored me. I had an entrepreneurial spirit. I didn't want to sit in one place. I
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  wanted to go out and do my thing. And that was just me. It doesn't mean that I or you or anybody
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  like us was less intelligent. We're just wired different. That's right. And you think about it,
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  it's not quite child abuse, but you think about we're forcing kids to do things they don't
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  necessarily want to do or aren't even good at doing, but we force them to persist and do it.
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  What does that do for their confidence and who they become? It doesn't make sense.
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  So again, my motto in the book is question everything.
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  Why are we still doing that?
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  I agree.
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  So let's, education is going to, I agree.
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  That's the foundation of changing society, period.
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  But we do have to come together as a society and agree on what it is we are going to be
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  teaching.
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  What's going to be that baseline?
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  What are going to be the moral tenets that we teach?
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  Because they do have to be universal principles for sure.
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  Now, what about, I was reading a bit how you came to question how governments are run.
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  for example. And even though my show is political, I don't want to put you in a political conversation
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  if you don't want to, but I just want to get your take on how we can better approach politics and
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  how politicians, for example, governments can actually serve the people instead of abusing the
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  people. And as we're talking about education, stop treating them as assets that they can
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  use as tools to just basically, you know, push their GDP and line their pockets.
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  So how would you, how would you go about that? Or what would you suggest? How can we
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  change our view and mindset on how, I don't know, how we're governed, mostly around the world?
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  Well, I mean, even...
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  Or let's do this. Let's just focus on Western society first. Let's do that.
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  Because, you know, it's kind of hard to have a blanket government, correct?
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  So how would we do that in Western society?
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  Yeah. So, I mean, even asking the question how we should be governed.
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  Now, what does being governed actually mean?
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  They are there to represent us, right?
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  But it doesn't always feel that way, right?
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  No, it doesn't.
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  And I think it starts with the actual political system.
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  I mean, the way it operates.
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  I know in America you have the collegiate system.
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  Here we have a preferential system.
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  Are you really getting a true sample of what people think, first of all?
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  That's the first thing.
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  The second thing is the way the system operates and how parties can receive donations to me also just has a little bit of a smell to it, right?
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  You know, that you can receive so much money and is it he who has the most funds to do advertising and marketing wins?
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  Well, that's partly it too, because that gives you a sphere of influence that, you know, so it boils down to the battle of the wallet.
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  And for me, that's not what politics should be about.
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  And what happens when a party is taking donations from both sides?
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  What does that say?
• 24:59
  Does that say, well, this is an IOU.
• 25:02
  Whenever you get in, remember me.
• 25:06
  Right, pretty much.
• 25:07
  So, you know, I mean, what is that?
• 25:09
  That, you know, that smells of corruption.
• 25:12
  So the problem is that the system is already set up to fail, right?
• 25:17
  Because it is about influence.
• 25:20
  And then you've got the politicians themselves that are mostly interested in attaining power
• 25:26
  and then retaining it at all costs.
• 25:30
  So what do they do to do that?
• 25:32
  And who pays the price of that?
• 25:34
  So the system already is fundamentally flawed in how it works.
• 25:38
  And then in the day-to-day operations of it, you just have to look at what's happening today.
• 25:45
  A lot of the time, both sides are just going at each other for point scoring.
• 25:51
  Are they really working in our best interest?
• 25:53
  Or again it all about trying to retain or attain power We pawns in their chess game And are they really serving us And my answer is absolutely no
• 26:08
  So a couple of things there.
• 26:12
  And for one, I believe you're right.
• 26:14
  I've always said we need to take away
• 26:16
  any kind of PACs, super PACs.
• 26:19
  I don't believe in lobbyists, to be honest.
• 26:21
  If you're going to lobby for something,
• 26:23
  it should be very public for everybody.
• 26:25
  should be on TV if you want to see it,
• 26:27
  and it should be in front of everybody at the same time.
• 26:30
  Period.
• 26:30
  No more private meetings, secret handshakes, any of that.
• 26:34
  Get it out in the open.
• 26:35
  Let it be transparent.
• 26:37
  And it's just not transparent.
• 26:39
  And there shouldn't be any donations whatsoever, I don't believe.
• 26:42
  And the second thing that I would say that you kind of touched on,
• 26:46
  but I think the other problem we have with politics right now,
• 26:51
  in Western society anyway,
• 26:52
  is everything seems to be more of when we elect our officials,
• 26:57
  it's based on popularity more than it is on who they are,
• 27:01
  like their resume.
• 27:02
  Like they're applying for a job to represent us.
• 27:04
  And people aren't looking at that.
• 27:06
  They're just looking at how popular they are,
• 27:09
  how charismatic, how they speak,
• 27:10
  whether or not they insulted the other person
• 27:12
  in a way that we could laugh about.
• 27:14
  You know, it's almost like just,
• 27:15
  I don't know how it is over there,
• 27:17
  but here to me, it just feels like
• 27:18
  nobody really got out of high school.
• 27:20
  You know, they're just taking that same,
• 27:22
  mentality and using that mentality to be world leaders, which is really ridiculous.
• 27:28
  And I can name some representatives that could definitely, absolutely speak to everything
• 27:33
  that I'm saying right now.
• 27:34
  I'm actually perfect representatives of everything I'm talking about right now.
• 27:38
  But we need to be able to do that.
• 27:44
  I don't think our society, I don't think governments, for example, if we're talking about
• 27:47
  our government here originally wasn't really set up to fail. I think it was allowed to get to that
• 27:55
  point over time. There's no reason any political appointment should be a lifetime appointment or
• 28:02
  should be allowed to be. We need to set strict term limits, at least here in the USA. And again,
• 28:07
  I'm not sure of how everything is over there, but term limits for sure. And the salary shouldn't be
• 28:14
  what they are either. I mean, it went from being a public service to where you get a stipend to
• 28:18
  suddenly, I think it was around the seventies or whatever, at least here, Congress voted to give
• 28:22
  themselves an increase in salary. And now we're looking at 170 some thousand dollars a year
• 28:27
  minimum. And then they're coming out the other end as multimillionaires. Like, how is that possible?
• 28:32
  And don't even tell me it's a book deal we're speaking to. So what about the accountability?
• 28:37
  It feels like the people have the power to hold our politicians accountable, but yet we don't because we don't pay attention.
• 28:46
  We don't come together.
• 28:47
  And I think that's another problem with society, if you're looking at it, is we have been conditioned to work, keep our head down, be happy with what we have, and not pay attention.
• 28:58
  We've created all these things around us that we stay so busy.
• 29:02
  We have these blinders on.
• 29:04
  and then when it comes time to pay attention to what's really happening,
• 29:06
  we feel like we're surprised and we're all so divided
• 29:09
  that we don't realize we can come together
• 29:11
  and literally hold these people accountable.
• 29:12
  We don't.
• 29:14
  I'm not sure how we change that.
• 29:15
  I mean, like you said, it starts with the education system.
• 29:18
  But aside from that, how do we get people to realize
• 29:20
  that we actually have the power to change these things?
• 29:23
  Well, I think, and that's why I get back to saying
• 29:25
  they are there to represent us,
• 29:28
  but that's not what's actually happening.
• 29:30
  They are definitely representing themselves.
• 29:32
  you know no politician or no party I mean the problem is you have elections that happen every
• 29:42
  four years right so you're allowed I mean over there you've got the midterms as well but you're
• 29:47
  allowed to pretty much run unfettered for that period of time whereas in any other job that
• 29:54
  you're in you'd have probably an annual review to see how you're doing to see whether you know
• 29:59
  There are things that need to happen.
• 30:01
  You don't get that.
• 30:01
  You get in, you've got four years, go for it, do whatever you like.
• 30:05
  At the end of the four years, we'll have another catch up again
• 30:09
  about what you should do.
• 30:10
  It doesn't happen in any other industry.
• 30:13
  So that should be changed.
• 30:15
  There should be some sort of performance review against your KPIs,
• 30:20
  exactly what you should be achieving, and what you go into an election
• 30:27
  talking about that you're going to achieve,
• 30:30
  you need to be graded against whether you achieved it or not
• 30:33
  because that was the platform on which you were voted in on.
• 30:36
  Exactly.
• 30:36
  So if you don't fulfill that,
• 30:40
  but you just said what you said to get in
• 30:43
  but don't follow through,
• 30:44
  that cannot be something that gets rewarded.
• 30:48
  And yet there are no consequences to doing that
• 30:50
  until the next election comes around.
• 30:52
  So, you know, there are so many holes in this.
• 30:58
  It's hard to find politicians.
• 31:01
  And I've seen it here too.
• 31:03
  Like, you know, in our parliament here, I see both sides going at each other.
• 31:07
  It feels like kindergarten.
• 31:10
  You know, it feels like kids just throwing chairs around and slanging at each other.
• 31:16
  And then they might recognize the dignitary in the gallery and welcome them from such and such country.
• 31:22
  and they're all respectful.
• 31:23
  And then they get back to hurling insults at each other.
• 31:26
  It's just a crazy situation.
• 31:29
  And as you say, we've allowed it to get to this stage
• 31:32
  because we feel helpless.
• 31:34
  What are we going to do?
• 31:35
  And the rules that govern their behavior,
• 31:39
  well, that's legislation that they're responsible for creating.
• 31:43
  So it feels a little bit of a conflict of interest.
• 31:46
  But, you know, they're the cop and the judge
• 31:50
  all at the same time.
• 31:51
  So, you know, I don't know.
• 31:54
  Yep.
• 31:54
  I think we all throw our hands up.
• 31:57
  We really do.
• 31:59
  And that's why I say, really, I'd love to say we could solve it today.
• 32:03
  We could all come together and we could lobby and we can make.
• 32:06
  And I mean, that's what elections are supposed to be for.
• 32:09
  But at the end of the day, I don't see any real major change happening until we implement
• 32:15
  something like what I'm saying in the education system and bring up the next generations to
• 32:21
  think differently. Most of us, we're too far gone. I'm sorry to say that we're set in our ways,
• 32:29
  we've got our views of the world, and we dig in on them because we believe they're right,
• 32:35
  and that's it. And it's hard to shift from that. I think we need almost a blank slate of
• 32:41
  the next generation to come in and be brought up understanding that, hey, this world is not,
• 32:50
  no one owns this world, right? We're merely tenants on it for a short period of time. Yet this
• 32:56
  scarcity mindset of this is mine, this is yours, you can't have this, it's crazy. I mean, it's like
• 33:04
  if Elon Musk gets to Mars, does he now own Mars? Is that it? It's his then and he can then pass it
• 33:11
  down to his kids and that's it. Is that what happens? I don't think we're looking at the world
• 33:16
  as humanity.
• 33:19
  It's just me versus you.
• 33:21
  And it's not good for anyone.
• 33:24
  Well, it's good for some,
• 33:26
  but that needs to change.
• 33:28
  Yeah, but I'm not disagreeing with you,
• 33:31
  but how do we come to this utopian society?
• 33:34
  I mean, I understand it's going to be
• 33:35
  a multi-generational effort,
• 33:38
  but how do you rewire people's basic beliefs,
• 33:43
  for example?
• 33:44
  you know and even when when we want to get down to it religions you know a lot a lot of culture a
• 33:51
  lot a lot of other societies their their morality um what they believe and what they feel held
• 33:57
  accountable to is based on the religion and you know there are very much many different religions
• 34:03
  that have different ways of looking at things there are some that share very basic principles
• 34:07
  but the interpretation of man then takes those and they turn them into either extreme ideologies
• 34:14
  or even if we just talk about Christianity,
• 34:16
  so many different denominations and sects and et cetera.
• 34:19
  So how do we train people to be able to look past that?
• 34:25
  Because I think that's going to be the one barrier.
• 34:28
  Geography also, obviously, what's around you,
• 34:31
  but your environment.
• 34:33
  But how are we going to train people to get around
• 34:35
  those religious hurdles?
• 34:39
  Now, I'm not anti-religious per se,
• 34:40
  but we do have to look at it from an objective point of view.
• 34:44
  That is a hurdle.
• 34:45
  That is one of the things that is dividing people.
• 34:47
  And we're not going to get to this utopian society
• 34:49
  if we can't get past that.
• 34:51
  But what would you suggest in that case?
• 34:54
  Well, look, I mean, from the point of view of religion,
• 34:58
  religion can exist quite happily concurrently with the philosophy, right?
• 35:04
  They're not at odds with each other.
• 35:06
  And many religions espouse that you should treat your fellow man in a good way and we should do that.
• 35:15
  The problem is it's like having a mission statement framed up on the wall.
• 35:22
  This is what our company stands for. This is what we do.
• 35:24
  And yet in the day-to-day running of it, people are just taking each other for granted and whatever.
• 35:30
  So it is human nature that we don't, you know, it's like watching, I watch David Attenborough documentaries and watch nature and the world's incredible.
• 35:46
  But then you get back to normal life and it's like you move on and you get back to what you have to do, right?
• 35:52
  And the problem is that we're not mindful enough.
• 35:55
  We don't keep it at the forefront of our mind about what it means to be a good human all the time.
• 36:02
  We just get caught up.
• 36:04
  And unfortunately, those things are reinforced to us.
• 36:09
  So the example I give in the book is, say, a bank that offers a credit card.
• 36:18
  and for new clients, they'll offer 0% for six months, 12 months, whatever it is, if you bring
• 36:26
  your balance over to us. And yet the person who's been with that bank for 20 years and has been a
• 36:32
  loyal client still keeps paying the standard interest rate. Now, we understand in the current
• 36:39
  model why that is because the bank values bringing on new business. So they're prepared to offer a
• 36:46
  deal to get new clients. But the human value is loyalty. Loyalty should be rewarded. So maybe it
• 36:54
  should be that the longer you've been with the bank, the better the deal that you get. But we
• 36:59
  don't see that happening. We see, I need more profits. And in order to do that, we need more
• 37:06
  clients. So let's give the incentive to the new clients and not worry about our old existing
• 37:12
  clients. That is a real conflict between what we know is a human value, that we value loyalty,
• 37:20
  and yet because of profitability and shareholders and all that sort of thing, we go in a different
• 37:27
  direction. And I talk about that in the book as our true north versus magnetic north approach.
• 37:33
  We know what true north is, but we're often pulled in a different direction.
• 37:37
  And while the world still keeps operating in that slightly left of center approach, we're not going to be able to resolve a lot of these things because we're not staying true to what it means to be human.
• 37:53
  It feels like the powers that be, though, you know, that the world that we live in has been designed intentionally to keep us distracted from, you know, getting over that hurdle, for example.
• 38:04
  Well, if you're a real cynic, George,
• 38:06
  you might say the Illuminati's created the world
• 38:09
  in such a way that we're all running on the hamster wheel
• 38:11
  to keep so busy that we don't have time to question anything
• 38:16
  while some people are living a really good life.
• 38:19
  I don't know if it's the Illuminati,
• 38:20
  but, I mean, you do see examples of that
• 38:22
  if we want to get conspiratorial.
• 38:23
  But, I mean, just going back to the education system
• 38:25
  based on the Industrial Revolution
• 38:27
  to where it's grind away, put your hours in,
• 38:29
  and produce this to get that.
• 38:31
  that's still in place.
• 38:35
  The constant barrage of media telling you what you're supposed to think.
• 38:38
  I mean, you can see systems in place that will affect you as a human being
• 38:43
  psychologically to veer towards one way of living versus the other.
• 38:47
  It's very evident.
• 38:48
  Now, I'm not saying there is, like you said, an Illuminati.
• 38:51
  I know we're just being facetious here.
• 38:52
  But at the same time, you kind of do get the sense that there is something
• 38:55
  out there when we talking in the terms that we are now in achieving a better humanity a better world it doesn sound like it that hard but with everything around us
• 39:07
  and how we keep so busy and distracted,
• 39:09
  it kind of is hard to move forward
• 39:13
  because now you're talking about loss of income.
• 39:16
  You're talking about a lot of things
• 39:17
  that you would have to sacrifice to make this work.
• 39:19
  So maybe that is exactly why it would be multi-generational.
• 39:22
  We would have to get away old ways of thinking
• 39:25
  out of our system to be able to do that.
• 39:27
  But at the same time,
• 39:28
  we have to change everything about society.
• 39:31
  And as you said,
• 39:32
  what is success for us to be able to do that?
• 39:35
  So, you know, I'm sure it does sound
• 39:38
  like a big conspiracy,
• 39:40
  but it's like it's not,
• 39:42
  you can't just ignore that.
• 39:43
  It does seem like there is systems
• 39:45
  or there are systems in place
• 39:47
  that keep us where we're at to a degree.
• 39:49
  A hundred percent.
• 39:50
  And you look at it, you know,
• 39:52
  someone who goes to work every day,
• 39:54
  works 40, 50 hours a week, clocks in, does their job, comes back home.
• 39:59
  How are they ever going to get ahead?
• 40:01
  You know, you've got other people who are just, you know,
• 40:06
  you're an influencer.
• 40:07
  All of a sudden people are paying you money to do whatever.
• 40:11
  And then, you know, from that it leads to other things
• 40:14
  and you get this and then you get that
• 40:16
  and then people are throwing things at you.
• 40:19
  You know, how does the average Joe just get ahead
• 40:22
  and just be able to have a decent life.
• 40:26
  As you say, they just kept busy.
• 40:29
  And so a lot of people are just spending their lives keeping busy.
• 40:33
  They're not really having a life.
• 40:36
  They're existing.
• 40:37
  They're not really living.
• 40:39
  And I question whether that's a good thing for society
• 40:43
  to be allowing to happen.
• 40:45
  I agree.
• 40:46
  I'm sorry.
• 40:47
  I was going to say, because when one of us suffers, we all suffer.
• 40:52
  Right?
• 40:52
  So that, unfortunately, we don't see that.
• 40:55
  We just stay in our own lane and go, well, I'm doing well, thank you.
• 40:59
  And that's all I need to worry about.
• 41:01
  But the truth is, if some parts of society are suffering, it has an impact and a flow
• 41:07
  onto all of us.
• 41:08
  You know, some people aren't doing so well.
• 41:11
  Just because I live in a mansion doesn't mean that I'm not going to get broken into
• 41:16
  and people are going to come in and, you know, commit an aggravated burglary on me because
• 41:20
  they're doing it tough or whatever it is that's going on. You can't live with blinkers on and just
• 41:26
  say, I'm successful, I'm living the good life, and that's all that really matters. Now, some people
• 41:32
  in those positions will be donating to charity and doing some good work there. My only issue with that
• 41:40
  is, that's great, but why do we live in a society that needs charity to still happen when there is
• 41:47
  so much around us that if it was distributed more equitably, we may not need charity to be in place.
• 41:58
  We'd have to figure out how to distribute things equitably, though, and at what level,
• 42:02
  what threshold. Again, that's the will to distribute. We could now, right? We have the
• 42:07
  resources. They're all there. And we're choosing to put them where we want to put them and to give
• 42:13
  it to who we want to give it to.
• 42:15
  That's the problem. It's one of will.
• 42:17
  It's not one of resources.
• 42:19
  Right. No resources there,
• 42:21
  but as you said, we have to rewrite everything.
• 42:23
  How do we decide these resources
• 42:25
  get distributed?
• 42:27
  That's why I say it's not something that
• 42:29
  we in our generation...
• 42:30
  No, no, no.
• 42:32
  I'm just talking theoretically here, openly
• 42:34
  about this, because it's like, we'd have to get rid
• 42:37
  of the idea of maybe
• 42:39
  commerce or go back to a barter
• 42:41
  system or just realize everybody gets a
• 42:43
  basic level of needs met? Think of money, George. Money is a man-made construct.
• 42:51
  We've said that this piece of plastic or paper or whatever holds value when intrinsically there's
• 42:56
  no value in it. We've decided it holds value. The same thing with gold. We've said it holds.
• 43:02
  I could go and pull gold out of the ground today. It cost me nothing. Here it is. And I say now,
• 43:09
  This is a piece of earth that I took out.
• 43:12
  It's only because society now says this has value that it has value.
• 43:18
  So we are creating things and we are deciding that certain things are valuable, certain things are not valuable, and some people can have access to them and some people can't.
• 43:32
  It feels very arbitrary, right?
• 43:34
  These are man-made decisions.
• 43:37
  The same with borders and countries.
• 43:39
  All right, let's get into this.
• 43:42
  Borders are man-made things.
• 43:44
  They don't exist unless you're living on an island
• 43:47
  and then you're obviously surrounded by a natural border.
• 43:50
  But the planet really is nobody's planet, right?
• 43:54
  It is just where we happen to live.
• 43:57
  And yet so much happens because of where you happen to be born
• 44:03
  and what your life looks like because of that.
• 44:06
  And for me, it's quite sad that some people will live a life of poverty and hunger and everything else through no fault of their own, but just because of where their parents were when they were born.
• 44:20
  And that's their life now.
• 44:23
  And we fight over that and the huge discussion about immigration now globally.
• 44:29
  You know, it feels that, again, that whole scarcity thing, this is mine, that's yours, you have that, this is mine.
• 44:40
  And that thing that we say is through necessity, we want to keep our borders strong, we want to look after our own and do all of that.
• 44:50
  I still have to question that.
• 44:52
  What does looking after our own mean?
• 44:54
  Does it just mean the people that are our people, our people, not humans?
• 45:01
  Again, why are we doing this?
• 45:04
  We do this because of this.
• 45:07
  It goes back to our primitive selves.
• 45:09
  It's that me versus you mentality.
• 45:13
  And I don't know if we'll ever see beyond that.
• 45:17
  But again, I believe if we have children who are raised to see everyone as equal, every human is a miracle, is a natural miracle that we're even existing here.
• 45:31
  If we start seeing life through that lens, then we start to see things differently.
• 45:37
  We don't see people as just statistics.
• 45:40
  We don't see them as problems.
• 45:43
  We see them as humans.
• 45:44
  And then we start to think differently.
• 45:47
  So the examples I don't disagree with if we're just looking at this from an objective view point, like humans being humans.
• 45:59
  I completely agree.
• 46:01
  But a lot of what's going on now, we're man supposedly elevated from most animals.
• 46:08
  But if you even look at nature, there's a pecking order.
• 46:10
  There's a way of things that should be done.
• 46:12
  There are weaker.
• 46:13
  There are stronger.
• 46:14
  There are leaders.
• 46:14
  you look at wolves, lions
• 46:17
  I mean, almost anything
• 46:19
  any animal, you know, ants
• 46:21
  termites, it's just what it is
• 46:23
  even bees, but when we're talking about
• 46:25
  the border thing, I'm not going to
• 46:27
  get crazy on this, to be honest
• 46:28
  I'm just going to address one thing about that
• 46:30
  is I think where that comes from
• 46:33
  is exactly, you know
• 46:35
  where we kind of
• 46:37
  model nature to a degree
• 46:38
  I'm not talking about money, I'm not talking about
• 46:41
  weapons, any of that, but we kind of group
• 46:43
  together and we create this society that we build. And then once we build it, I think we want to
• 46:49
  protect that. You create certain things like your customs, your languages, et cetera. Now, the idea
• 46:55
  of open borders and looking at immigration or immigrants as bad, I don't believe people are
• 47:00
  necessarily bad. But we do have a problem with what you said in the beginning, which is respect.
• 47:06
  And if we're not going to have people immigrate, we could have open arms, for example. But if the
• 47:12
  people coming in don't have the same viewpoint in terms,
• 47:18
  not necessarily the same exact culture,
• 47:19
  but respect for what was already there
• 47:22
  and not trying to instill what they are
• 47:25
  to change everything around them to suit them.
• 47:27
  See, that's a different problem.
• 47:29
  But if we come into it together with respect and realize,
• 47:32
  great, I can learn something from you.
• 47:34
  You can learn something from me.
• 47:35
  But when you have people just going in
• 47:38
  and trying to change everything that you are
• 47:40
  and everything that you know and you built up,
• 47:42
  That's not learning from each other.
• 47:44
  That's not teaching.
• 47:45
  That's invading.
• 47:46
  That's different.
• 47:47
  So, of course, people are going to have a viewpoint of being defensive and protective
• 47:52
  because they feel they're losing something.
• 47:54
  They're feeling that everything that I know and have been taught doesn't mean that there
• 47:58
  are bad people.
• 47:59
  They could have been open, but they got a bad taste in their mouth because they weren't
• 48:02
  treated with the same respect that was expected of them to accept these people.
• 48:06
  And that's the issue that I think it is.
• 48:08
  It's not just resources.
• 48:10
  You know, man's going to be man.
• 48:11
  there's always going to be some corrupt asshole out there that wants to make
• 48:14
  more money,
• 48:15
  rule people,
• 48:15
  et cetera.
• 48:16
  I mean,
• 48:16
  I wish we can just root that out of everybody.
• 48:19
  And we could look at things like you said,
• 48:21
  from a level of respect to where even if we do have borders,
• 48:24
  it's,
• 48:25
  it's more accepting of people to work together,
• 48:29
  visit each other,
• 48:30
  learn from each other from a mutual level of respect rather than from a
• 48:36
  viewpoint of entitlement.
• 48:37
  That's,
• 48:38
  that's the problem.
• 48:39
  That's my opinion.
• 48:41
  Yeah. And look, I'm not saying we should have open borders necessarily. But what I'm saying is, whilst we don't have that view that you've just talked about, and you've articulated that very well, is that that should exist everywhere.
• 49:00
  So that a lot of the people in those other countries that want to migrate already have a decent life over there.
• 49:08
  And so it's not about, well, I'm coming from something horrible and I'm going to come into yours and now we're going to establish our own little thing.
• 49:17
  It's like, well, hang on.
• 49:19
  If everyone has a good life everywhere in the world, there's probably not the need to move.
• 49:24
  A lot of these people wouldn't need to cross the border if life was decent enough where they were to begin with.
• 49:32
  And so that's why I'm saying this isn't an us versus them.
• 49:35
  This is a global issue that needs to be resolved.
• 49:38
  We need to have good quality of life for everyone everywhere.
• 49:45
  And then it's no longer about this is me and that's you.
• 49:48
  No, it's us because we're now responsible for each other.
• 49:52
  We're not just thinking only of ourselves.
• 49:56
  And I think that's what's lacking at the moment.
• 49:58
  We don't, you know, you've got the different governments,
• 50:01
  you've got the different religions, you've got the different viewpoints.
• 50:05
  But at the end of the day, those aren't necessarily the people, right?
• 50:11
  The people who are struggling to live have to live within those particular ecosystems.
• 50:18
  And it's those ecosystems that I'm talking about that are keeping them down, that are keeping them homeless, poor, living a life that is lacking any meaning.
• 50:30
  When all you've got to do is struggle to survive, you can't even climb Maslow's hierarchy and try and have some of those higher things happen in your life.
• 50:43
  There's no way you can self-actualize when you're still trying to have food and clothing.
• 50:48
  So if that was the case globally,
• 50:52
  then I guarantee you migration would be a very different thing.
• 50:56
  It wouldn't be we have to so we can live.
• 50:59
  It would be we'd like to because it would be for this other reason,
• 51:04
  not because we're just trying to survive.
• 51:07
  And that's what I'm saying, that immigration, migration is something,
• 51:13
  yes, right now in the world that we live in,
• 51:16
  it's going to be contentious and it's going to be,
• 51:20
  no, we've got to keep our borders closed.
• 51:21
  We've got to keep our people safe.
• 51:23
  And so very much that tribal mentality and that, you know,
• 51:26
  that goes back a long way.
• 51:28
  But we've got to see each other also as one big tribe.
• 51:33
  And if we do that, then we start, the whole world will,
• 51:37
  everything will change when that happens.
• 51:40
  The question is, how do we get to that point where we can have
• 51:43
  that kind of global view of everything, not because we can access resources from this
• 51:52
  country, but because it's just good for everyone to be doing well.
• 51:57
  I don't disagree with what you said.
• 51:59
  I literally believe it or not.
• 52:01
  I have the same view.
• 52:01
  you do. Like if everybody was able to live on an equal level in terms of resources, like you said,
• 52:07
  if they all had a good life, they wouldn't feel the need to abandon where they are. They would
• 52:11
  love their home. They would love to be where they're at. And I think that if you wanted to
• 52:15
  migrate or live somewhere else, like for me, it's the example I would say is like, well,
• 52:19
  I prefer living by the ocean rather than the desert, for example. It may just come down to
• 52:24
  that. You just want a different environment. And that's acceptable to me. As long as,
• 52:27
  you know, wherever you go, you just, we just live respectfully together. And it's true. I mean,
• 52:33
  look, you and I could have been born in Sierra Leone. We could have been born in the Congo. We
• 52:38
  could have been born in Nigeria, Kenya, like any of these other places where it is much harder to
• 52:43
  live. But what we're also ignoring here that was this, I think the average person, the average
• 52:49
  person is good. Like, I think they want what you're saying and they understand it, but we're
• 52:55
  not addressing evil. There are people that are just evil. There's evil in this world.
• 52:59
  And they will impose their will on others that are viewed as weaker so they could maintain
• 53:03
  power and control. Some can say our governments are literally nothing but systems put in place to
• 53:09
  keep people in subjugation. But see, evil can flourish when we allow it to and enable it to.
• 53:16
  And I think that's the flaw in the system. The system allows those people to graduate to those
• 53:25
  levels where they have that sphere of influence and power and we allow them, you know, some people
• 53:31
  to have billions and billions and billions of dollars and other people to have nothing. And you
• 53:35
  go, okay, do you need billions and billions of dollars? Right. But it could also not just be
• 53:39
  money. It could be resources. Like what if the leader of a village decides he's going to control
• 53:44
  all the food and the water? Yeah. Right. It could be down to just basic necessities of life that are
• 53:51
  controlled. And, you know, evil, yeah, okay, we allow it. You could say that we allow it,
• 53:57
  but we can't control who wants to cause harm. We cannot objectively control who wants to try to
• 54:04
  hurt other people and keep them under control and use them as literal assets to keep their lives
• 54:09
  good. But we can have checks and balances when they do. Yes. So it goes back to what we were
• 54:13
  talking about earlier. How do the people realize they have control and keep them accountable?
• 54:19
  Well, the people have control right now, right?
• 54:21
  They do.
• 54:22
  You know, we could take over anything.
• 54:26
  Who's the majority?
• 54:27
  The government or the people, right?
• 54:28
  No, exactly.
• 54:30
  That is the issue, right?
• 54:34
  Yeah, but we don't view it that way because the system,
• 54:38
  well, you know, the government says then they've got the military,
• 54:41
  then they've got the guard, then they've got the police,
• 54:44
  they've got all those forces, so we better just keep our heads down.
• 54:49
  And look, that's what happened.
• 54:51
  Look what happened in the Arab Spring.
• 54:53
  You know, all those countries, all those leaders overthrown.
• 54:56
  So it can happen.
• 54:58
  We don't see it so much in the Western world.
• 55:00
  We wouldn't do what's happened in those other countries.
• 55:05
  But certainly we do have that control.
• 55:08
  And it's only because of us that those people are in the position that they're in.
• 55:12
  Right?
• 55:12
  So we need, I don't know.
• 55:15
  When I look at the leaders of today, I feel, I don't know,
• 55:21
  I feel something's really missing.
• 55:22
  We don't really have, I mean, we've got charismatic people,
• 55:26
  but charismatic for good and bad reasons as well.
• 55:30
  Do we have people that are really trying to level up the world?
• 55:36
  And, you know, unfortunately, power corrupts, right?
• 55:41
  You get in there.
• 55:41
  I've seen a lot of politicians who come into politics with all these ideals and, you know,
• 55:47
  they want to change the world and improve it, but then they get chewed up by the machine
• 55:52
  and they get spat out.
• 55:54
  And if you don't toe the party line, well, you're not going to have any career progression
• 55:58
  with us.
• 55:59
  You're done.
• 56:00
  So, you know, the system forces you to conform and that conformity is dangerous.
• 56:08
  And that's what leads to this need to constantly be trying to retain power.
• 56:15
  And that's what it is.
• 56:17
  It's not about I'll cross the floor because of a philosophical difference that I have
• 56:23
  or I'm going to stand up for something.
• 56:25
  Because you know there will be repercussions.
• 56:29
  Yeah, they're not going to let go of what they have.
• 56:31
  Why would they give up the power?
• 56:32
  Like you said, it corrupts.
• 56:35
  It corrupts absolutely.
• 56:36
  So it's like they're not going to give up their station, their status, unfortunately.
• 56:43
  I got the answer.
• 56:44
  Let's just burn it all down.
• 56:45
  Let's start over.
• 56:47
  Well, yeah, I think it's been done once before.
• 56:50
  I think some guy called Noah.
• 56:52
  Yeah.
• 56:53
  That was a factory reset they did.
• 56:56
  A big one.
• 56:57
  Yeah.
• 56:58
  So, I mean, that would be the easiest way, wouldn't it?
• 57:01
  But then there'd be no one left to carry anything forward.
• 57:03
  So I think the way really is that, as I say, I think we are just too set in our ways.
• 57:12
  I really believe it's the kids of tomorrow who are blank slates, who, you know, what is written for them is up to us.
• 57:22
  What do we want to instill in them?
• 57:24
  What do we want them to think about and take actions on?
• 57:28
  And that's really when we'll see change happen.
• 57:31
  until then, we just keep fighting things in pockets.
• 57:37
  You know, there'll be people who are advocating for, you know,
• 57:40
  solve homelessness, solve poverty, do this, do that.
• 57:44
  And you're fighting against competing forces
• 57:50
  because not everyone thinks that way.
• 57:54
  And you know I feel despondent when I think about what could we do today You know we keep doing what we doing We keep doing the we advocate we lobby we do the things we do But again
• 58:08
  I don't think that's going to change anything. For me, you know, if you wanted to advocate
• 58:14
  against domestic violence, right, you could talk about how, you know, we could have programs for
• 58:20
  men and we can do this and that. At the end of the day for me, trying to treat one particular
• 58:27
  problem is a missed opportunity. Because if we treated respect at its core, then we knock out
• 58:36
  domestic violence, we knock out homelessness, poverty, we knock out so many things because we
• 58:44
  see respect as the number one thing to focus on. We wouldn't allow these other things to happen
• 58:52
  then. But what happens at the moment is someone advocates for a cause, for a particular thing.
• 58:59
  And again, I see that that is too vertical. What we need to do is have a broad understanding of
• 59:06
  respect for people, for animals, for the planet. And all of a sudden, we knock out a whole lot of
• 59:13
  problems that exist. And until we
• 59:15
  do that through
• 59:17
  the education system,
• 59:18
  we're just going to continually
• 59:20
  be putting out fires all the time.
• 59:23
  And they just keep
• 59:24
  flaring up as soon as you put one out.
• 59:28
  Yeah.
• 59:28
  Well, it does start with the education system.
• 59:30
  And I say the hell with it.
• 59:32
  Just burn it down. I'm going to stick with that.
• 59:34
  That's going to be my policy.
• 59:36
  Burn it down and start over.
• 59:38
  Oh my.
• 59:39
  So let's talk about
• 59:43
  I think we talk about most things, but getting people, as you said earlier, to agree to move forward and accepting that we need to change.
• 59:51
  It is going to be multi-generational.
• 59:53
  Yes, it starts with the education system.
• 59:56
  And should it be a universal education system across the world?
• 59:58
  I mean, there would be tweaks based on your environment, geography, etc., right?
• 1:00:03
  You do want to preserve certain cultures, but I think respect is the key for sure.
• 1:00:08
  And then taking away the tools of division, really.
• 1:00:13
  So I can't argue that your view is wrong because that's not what I'm here to do.
• 1:00:20
  I'm wanting to get out of you what you have discussed with me already.
• 1:00:27
  What should we do?
• 1:00:28
  And again, I know you don't have the answer.
• 1:00:30
  It's not like a mechanics guide or an IKEA guide of how to build furniture or whatever.
• 1:00:35
  We're not going to get that.
• 1:00:36
  That's not a good example.
• 1:00:38
  But anyway, the idea of change,
• 1:00:41
  I think a lot of people see that and they want that.
• 1:00:44
  I don't think we just don't know how to get there.
• 1:00:47
  We just don't know how to start.
• 1:00:48
  We just don't know how to start.
• 1:00:49
  That's what it is.
• 1:00:50
  That's the problem.
• 1:00:51
  That's what I hear from people.
• 1:00:52
  They don't disagree with the things I'm saying.
• 1:00:54
  They just feel helpless as to, well, how do we do this, right?
• 1:00:58
  And I'm saying the how is the education system.
• 1:01:03
  It's not about trying to fix it today.
• 1:01:05
  It's not about trying to fix the problems that we see today.
• 1:01:10
  It's about drawing a line in the sand and saying, if you want to have significant change
• 1:01:16
  happen globally, do it through the education system over the next couple of decades.
• 1:01:22
  You'll start to see change happen immediately.
• 1:01:25
  So those kids who start today, when they graduate in 18 years, whatever it is, they come out,
• 1:01:34
  They come home to their parents who are still thinking in the old way, but now you've got a 25% shift.
• 1:01:41
  They then become the parents of the next generation.
• 1:01:44
  Now we're up to 50% who have been educated in this new way of thinking.
• 1:01:49
  It is something that will take years to happen.
• 1:01:52
  But if we start today, then we start to see change happen.
• 1:01:57
  And it is about acknowledging that we can't solve things today.
• 1:02:07
  These aren't quick fixes and these are big problems.
• 1:02:11
  And we are so ingrained.
• 1:02:12
  The problem is people, they dig in.
• 1:02:18
  Whatever their view is, they just dig in because it's their view.
• 1:02:21
  and if someone comes with an opposing view, it's very difficult for other people to put themselves
• 1:02:28
  in someone else's shoes and see their point of view because they're so indoctrinated into their
• 1:02:33
  way of thinking. And that's why when I talk about the three pillars, respect, empathy,
• 1:02:39
  and gratitude, if you don't have empathy and you can't see life through another person's lens,
• 1:02:45
  then it's very difficult to shift things
• 1:02:52
  because you're only seeing things through your glasses, right?
• 1:02:58
  And that's what I say.
• 1:03:00
  That needs to be taught.
• 1:03:01
  It's not going to happen overnight.
• 1:03:03
  I mean, people have empathy.
• 1:03:05
  A lot of people have empathy.
• 1:03:07
  And look, there are some people we're not going to be able to help.
• 1:03:09
  The narcissist, the psychopath, the sociopath,
• 1:03:12
  we can't help those guys.
• 1:03:13
  they're still going to need to have other checks and balances for them.
• 1:03:19
  But for the majority of people who, and it comes back to that nature-nurture argument,
• 1:03:25
  when you're born, are you predisposed to being mean or were you just taught to be that?
• 1:03:33
  So we'll never answer that.
• 1:03:36
  That's an ongoing thing.
• 1:03:37
  But what we can do is have an influence on the nurture aspect of it.
• 1:03:43
  We don't necessarily have the control over the nature, but certainly from the nurture
• 1:03:48
  point of view what is it that we can do to try and optimize the best outcome for the next generation And you know leaving things to chance hoping that we get a good generation I mean that what happens now right They go to
• 1:04:06
  school, they learn subject matter, they do have some socialization, they get some upbringing from
• 1:04:12
  the home environment, they get some from their peers that they hang out with, they get some from
• 1:04:17
  social media, some from TV. So it's pretty much a hope and pray, shake it all up and see what comes
• 1:04:26
  out at the end of it. And I'm saying maybe we need to be a little bit more prescriptive
• 1:04:30
  in driving the direction of society. What should humans entering society as adults be?
• 1:04:41
  what do we want to gift to the next generation?
• 1:04:45
  How do we want to see the world for our kids,
• 1:04:49
  our grandkids become?
• 1:04:51
  And I'm saying that the way it is at the moment,
• 1:04:55
  it's benefiting some people greatly
• 1:04:58
  and they're not in a rush to change anything at all.
• 1:05:02
  But for a lot of people, life is a struggle
• 1:05:04
  and that should not be what life is.
• 1:05:09
  It's a miracle that we're here.
• 1:05:12
  The opportunity that we have to do things, to level up.
• 1:05:19
  You know, I call my book a critical upgrade for humanity.
• 1:05:23
  And you were talking before about how we follow the animal kingdom.
• 1:05:27
  And yes, but now it's time to upgrade.
• 1:05:30
  We don't have to be animals.
• 1:05:32
  We don't have to just follow this hierarchy.
• 1:05:35
  I mean, we've evolved.
• 1:05:37
  We can make our own food.
• 1:05:40
  We make our own everything.
• 1:05:41
  We are so advanced, and yet we're so backwards at the same time.
• 1:05:47
  And it's that that I'm saying we're missing the opportunity to truly level up as humanity
• 1:05:52
  and become the next version of ourselves.
• 1:05:55
  I wonder how we get there.
• 1:05:58
  Like comparing us to the animal kingdom, for example, I did do that.
• 1:06:04
  I do think we took cues from the animal kingdom, right?
• 1:06:07
  because as we were living,
• 1:06:09
  yeah,
• 1:06:10
  we were living out there as animals before we became who we are as humans,
• 1:06:16
  modern day humans anyway.
• 1:06:17
  But you know,
• 1:06:18
  then there's the,
• 1:06:19
  then there's the other issue.
• 1:06:23
  At what point,
• 1:06:24
  see,
• 1:06:24
  I think,
• 1:06:25
  I think for the most part,
• 1:06:25
  if you look at humanity,
• 1:06:26
  even if it's social media,
• 1:06:27
  for example,
• 1:06:28
  we're looking at social media,
• 1:06:29
  which is one of the great dividers of being social,
• 1:06:32
  for example,
• 1:06:33
  to be honest.
• 1:06:34
  And the problem is,
• 1:06:35
  is,
• 1:06:36
  you know,
• 1:06:36
  there's these rewards sit in place. So you get these dopamine hits for getting likes,
• 1:06:40
  you get views, et cetera. And this is modern day humanity. I think in the end, no matter what we do,
• 1:06:48
  humans are going to naturally look for the leader. Like by what do we judge what we're doing against?
• 1:06:56
  What's going to be the standard? So eventually will humanity look for a leader to be put in
• 1:07:01
  place again or elect one? Or will they form a new religion and look at a new God, for example?
• 1:07:06
  that they hold everything to be against as the standard.
• 1:07:10
  So at what point do we just go back in a full circle,
• 1:07:14
  right back to where we started?
• 1:07:16
  How are we going to rewire people to that level
• 1:07:20
  of being able to break that cycle?
• 1:07:22
  Well, look where we are now, heading towards the world of AI.
• 1:07:27
  AI is now becoming one of those things people are relying on
• 1:07:30
  and are going to start.
• 1:07:31
  We're going to be replaced, right?
• 1:07:33
  Well, I don't know about replace, but certainly, you know,
• 1:07:39
  anything you see now in social media, you look on Facebook or anything,
• 1:07:43
  you can't believe anything anymore, right?
• 1:07:46
  No.
• 1:07:46
  You cannot trust anything is as it is,
• 1:07:49
  and yet people will see things and believe them to be true.
• 1:07:55
  And so our critical thinking is more important now than it's ever been.
• 1:07:59
  is that the new God
• 1:08:02
  that wow I can have a conversation
• 1:08:04
  with AI
• 1:08:05
  AI told me to do this
• 1:08:07
  it's like
• 1:08:08
  are we relinquishing control
• 1:08:12
  because there are no real great leaders
• 1:08:14
  human leaders at the moment
• 1:08:16
  that we put that level of trust
• 1:08:19
  and respect in
• 1:08:20
  well and let's ask this question
• 1:08:24
  I mean you stated
• 1:08:26
  is AI the new God
• 1:08:29
  you know just you're just throwing it out there right as a statement or are we the gods creating
• 1:08:34
  our replacements i mean we we are the creator right so we could have that discussion but i mean
• 1:08:42
  i don't i don't know how far we'll get but yeah are we creating our own our own replacements for
• 1:08:47
  example could it be with the ai or will ai remain a tool and when it comes to ai like you said sorry
• 1:08:55
  just a few more things when it comes to ai like you said when you're looking on social media
• 1:08:58
  You're looking at all these things and you're saying that people can't tell the difference.
• 1:09:03
  I mean, we also have to accept the fact that it is really hard now.
• 1:09:07
  I mean, it's gotten so good at producing content and videos and pictures that it's getting harder and harder to decipher what is real and what isn't.
• 1:09:19
  Yeah, that's it.
• 1:09:20
  And so you need to scrutinize everything that you see now.
• 1:09:25
  The problem is you see something and it's difficult to not believe that it is or isn't.
• 1:09:33
  And how do we know what's real anymore?
• 1:09:36
  What we see in the media, you know, when we're seeing reports from another country about what's happening there, is that doctored?
• 1:09:44
  Is it modified?
• 1:09:45
  Is it completely created with AI?
• 1:09:48
  I think that the challenge now is to how do we live in a world of AI and know what real anymore And then the implications of those stories or fictitious things that are being created the impact that they can have on
• 1:10:05
  the world as well. It started off being, well, what's happening in the education system with AI?
• 1:10:12
  People now can get all the answers that they want from AI. And my answer to that is,
• 1:10:17
  it's not about AI giving you the answers.
• 1:10:23
  It's like the old thing about when you had to do your math equation,
• 1:10:27
  show me the working out.
• 1:10:29
  How did you get there?
• 1:10:30
  Right?
• 1:10:31
  Like with AI, it'll be, well,
• 1:10:33
  what prompt did you give it to even get close to that answer?
• 1:10:37
  Like how was your thinking to even,
• 1:10:39
  so we have to just adjust now instead of pretending it doesn't exist.
• 1:10:43
  It exists.
• 1:10:44
  It will be used.
• 1:10:45
  But how did you actually come up with that prompt to even get that answer?
• 1:10:50
  Because you must have had the thinking behind the prompt.
• 1:10:54
  So we just adjust now what we're basing our assessment on.
• 1:11:03
  I think there's, you know, the world is a different place.
• 1:11:07
  You think about now we are the most connected we've ever been
• 1:11:10
  and yet we are the most disconnected we've ever been.
• 1:11:13
  You know, what used to be our old tribal village, our people who lived around us, everyone now drives into their garage, locks their door, turns on their security cameras, everyone's siloed, living alone in their own place.
• 1:11:28
  And we fear for the people, you know, who live around us.
• 1:11:33
  You know, are they like us?
• 1:11:34
  Are they not like us?
• 1:11:36
  That village mentality is gone.
• 1:11:38
  In some ways, it's migrated online now.
• 1:11:41
  We lock ourselves into our homes, but we will congregate online now.
• 1:11:47
  And what has that done for society with people that we don't get to socialize and mix with
• 1:11:53
  that maybe are not our friends group and maybe are different than us, but we used to be more
• 1:12:01
  tolerant because we would still mingle with those people.
• 1:12:04
  Now we don't need to.
• 1:12:05
  Well, good points.
• 1:12:07
  And when we're talking about, I'm going to circle back to the information narratives, media.
• 1:12:16
  I've always said this, literally.
• 1:12:18
  I believe people live on the surface of information.
• 1:12:20
  And the problem is people will see a headline, believe it, move on.
• 1:12:25
  They're not corroborating stories and reports.
• 1:12:27
  They're not cross-referencing any of that.
• 1:12:30
  They're just like, oh, that happened.
• 1:12:31
  That's what it is.
• 1:12:32
  That's what I'm believing.
• 1:12:33
  I'm just moving on.
• 1:12:34
  Back to education.
• 1:12:35
  Are they teaching critical thinking?
• 1:12:37
  No.
• 1:12:38
  And then with social media, for example, how it's being able to separate us,
• 1:12:44
  it's kind of like the whole fire hose theory.
• 1:12:48
  We could drink out of a garden hose, I think.
• 1:12:51
  But if you take a fire hose without that volume of water and pressure, forget it.
• 1:12:54
  If you want to stay in the way of that, you might drown yourself trying.
• 1:12:58
  And I don't think people know what to do with everything coming at them.
• 1:13:01
  They don't know how to process it.
• 1:13:02
  We're not meant to take all of this in the way that we are.
• 1:13:05
  We do got to get back to community.
• 1:13:07
  Like, you know what we're doing right now?
• 1:13:08
  We're having a conversation about philosophy, correct?
• 1:13:10
  We're being theoretical.
• 1:13:11
  We're discussing ideas.
• 1:13:13
  And a lot of people don't do this because they don't want to offend each other.
• 1:13:17
  We're taught to stay in this box because I don't want to offend you because I have an
• 1:13:21
  opinion that you're going to disagree with.
• 1:13:24
  And I've seen too often, even in my day-to-day, where people just shut you out.
• 1:13:28
  They'll just shut you down and walk away because you say one word.
• 1:13:31
  They don't want to hear what else you have to say.
• 1:13:33
  They just think that one word, that's everything you are, and that's all that you believe.
• 1:13:38
  And I can't conversate with you.
• 1:13:39
  It's like nobody wants to be challenged.
• 1:13:41
  We've become very sensitive now.
• 1:13:42
  I mean, Gen Z, for instance, no one wants to offend anyone.
• 1:13:48
  It's crazy.
• 1:13:50
  I don't know, man.
• 1:13:51
  Listen, tell us more about your book and where we can get it, Alex.
• 1:13:56
  Yeah, so the book, The Philosophy, it's available on Amazon.
• 1:14:00
  it's available as a paperback
• 1:14:03
  Kindle and
• 1:14:04
  audiobook on Audible
• 1:14:06
  there's the QR code there
• 1:14:08
  if you want to get to the website and you
• 1:14:10
  can find the book there
• 1:14:12
  pretty easy
• 1:14:14
  pretty straightforward
• 1:14:15
  listen I really do
• 1:14:18
  like what you had to say I like your ideas
• 1:14:20
  and your outlook
• 1:14:22
  so I hope everybody
• 1:14:24
  gives your book a read honestly
• 1:14:26
  you know I'm sure it'll help
• 1:14:28
  lead them to seeing things differently
• 1:14:30
  or at least challenge the way they see things as it is.
• 1:14:32
  But I appreciate your time.
• 1:14:34
  I do want to stay in touch with you
• 1:14:35
  and maybe we'll do this again sometime.
• 1:14:39
  Thanks, George.
• 1:14:40
  I've really enjoyed the conversation.
• 1:14:41
  It's been great chatting with you.
• 1:14:43
  You know, and yeah,
• 1:14:46
  I thought we might get a bit more like that.
• 1:14:47
  No, no, no.
• 1:14:49
  I've been accused of being closed-minded
• 1:14:51
  because again, as you know,
• 1:14:53
  we talked offline,
• 1:14:54
  you hear some of my solo episodes.
• 1:14:56
  Sure, I can definitely get that way on the politics.
• 1:14:58
  But in reality, you know, I'm still human.
• 1:15:00
  You got to look at things from a human perspective.
• 1:15:02
  So, yeah.
• 1:15:04
  These are just discussions.
• 1:15:06
  They're just talking points.
• 1:15:08
  They should spur on more thoughts and actions.
• 1:15:11
  And that's what the whole point of it is.
• 1:15:13
  Exactly.
• 1:15:14
  So appreciate your time.
• 1:15:15
  Thank you very much.
• 1:15:17
  And let's stay in touch.
• 1:15:18
  Thanks, Greg.
• 1:15:19
  Thank you.
• 1:15:28
  Bye.