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MC Fireside Chats - August 5th, 2026 · MC Fireside Chats, an Outdoor Hospitality Podcast

• 0:46
  Brian Searl: Welcome everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chats.
• 0:48
  Brian Searl: My name's Brian Searl with Insider Perks, and I left my other thing in there on the laptop, so now there's two of me up on the screen.
• 0:54
  Brian Searl: That's gonna be interesting.
• 0:55
  Brian Searl: I'll take myself off in a second.
• 0:56
  Brian Searl: But, uh, welcome to another episode of MC Fireside Chats.
• 0:59
  Brian Searl: We're excited to be here for our first week episode.
• 1:01
  Brian Searl: We normally talk about industry data, trends, insights, all that kind of stuff on today's show.
• 1:05
  Brian Searl: So we got a couple of our recurring guests who are usually with us always.
• 1:08
  Brian Searl: On this first week we got Raf, let you go introduce yourself in a second.
• 1:11
  Brian Searl: Rafa uh, Scott Bahr, Phil Ingrassia, and a new recurring guest who's gonna join us every first week here, Michael Moore, who I'll give extended time to you, Michael.
• 1:19
  Brian Searl: You have to compress your life story into about 30 seconds and just kind of play around and be prepared with that.
• 1:23
  Brian Searl: We'll let you go last.
• 1:25
  Brian Searl: Um, but-
• 1:26
  Michael Moore: Yeah
• 1:26
  Brian Searl: introduce yourself.
• 1:27
  Brian Searl: Tell us what you can bring to the table, 'cause there's a lot that you got, that you've been doing, and you've been involved in the industry for a long, long time, so excited to have you here.
• 1:33
  Brian Searl: And then two special guests, Derry, uh, and, um, sorry, I forgot your name, man.
• 1:39
  Brian Searl: It's too small to read.
• 1:40
  Brian Searl: McKay.
• 1:41
  McKay Quinn: McKay.
• 1:42
  Brian Searl: And Miguel is here too maybe.
• 1:44
  Brian Searl: He popped off, so, uh, I'm old, okay?
• 1:46
  Brian Searl: Don't blame me.
• 1:46
  Brian Searl: I forget everybody's name every week.
• 1:48
  Brian Searl: So, all right, let's, uh, briefly go around, just introduce ourselves.
• 1:51
  Brian Searl: Raf, you wanna start?
• 1:53
  Rafael Correa: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 1:53
  Rafael Correa: Good to see everybody.
• 1:55
  Rafael Correa: Glad to be back.
• 1:56
  Rafael Correa: I know I've been, you know, a little bit out of, uh, missed a couple months here of some travel, vacation and, you know, just summer fun.
• 2:02
  Rafael Correa: But, uh, excited to be back on.
• 2:04
  Rafael Correa: Rafael Correa.
• 2:05
  Rafael Correa: I'm the President and CFO of Bluewater Hospitality, and we are a owner/operator manager of RV resorts.
• 2:11
  Rafael Correa: We do third-party management.
• 2:12
  Rafael Correa: We have our own owned portfolio, uh, concentrated in the, uh, RV space.
• 2:17
  Rafael Correa: We also have a small hotel portfolio of about eight hotels, uh, that we own and manage.
• 2:23
  Rafael Correa: Um, and on the RV side, our portfolio is 64 properties, uh, under management.
• 2:28
  Rafael Correa: So yeah, excited to be here.
• 2:31
  Brian Searl: Welcome, sir.
• 2:32
  Brian Searl: Thanks for being here.
• 2:32
  Brian Searl: Appreciate you.
• 2:33
  Brian Searl: Uh, uh, Phil, you wanna go next?
• 2:35
  Phil Ingrassia: Sure.
• 2:36
  Phil Ingrassia: Phil Ingrassia, President of the RV Dealers Association.
• 2:39
  Phil Ingrassia: We represent, uh, US motor home and travel trailer dealers across the country.
• 2:45
  Brian Searl: Thanks for being here as always, Phil.
• 2:46
  Brian Searl: Scott Bahr?
• 2:48
  Scott Bahr: Uh, Scott Bahr, President of the Cairn Consulting Group.
• 2:50
  Scott Bahr: We are a market research organization working primarily in outdoor hospitality, outdoor recreation.
• 2:59
  Scott Bahr: Um, yeah, great to see everybody again.
• 3:02
  Brian Searl: Yeah, thanks for being here again, Scott.
• 3:04
  Brian Searl: Uh, and last but not least, our new entrant to the recurring guest space, Michael Moore.
• 3:10
  Michael Moore: Yeah, thanks for having me, Brian.
• 3:11
  Michael Moore: Uh, my name's Michael Moore.
• 3:13
  Michael Moore: Uh, I wear a couple different hats.
• 3:14
  Michael Moore: One is, uh, working with the Texas Association of Campground Owners, uh, or TACO as we like to call it, uh, the biggest, uh, depending on who you ask, Florida, uh, campground association in the country.
• 3:27
  Michael Moore: And then, uh, we also have our marketing division, for-profit division called Camping with Guest Guides, where, uh, we work with 1,000 campgrounds all over the country in one form or another, but primarily providing kinda marketing material, check-in material,
• 3:41
  Michael Moore: that kind of stuff.
• 3:42
  Michael Moore: So yeah, thanks for having me.
• 3:44
  Brian Searl: Thanks for being here, Michael.
• 3:45
  Brian Searl: I have one question for you before we get to Miguel to hop on and let him introduce himself.
• 3:49
  Brian Searl: Do you find that there's any branding issues now that Trump always chickens out or The tacos.
• 3:55
  Brian Searl: I'm just kidding
• 3:55
  Michael Moore: Uh, no, no, we lean into it, man, believe me.
• 3:58
  Michael Moore: We, we started doing, uh, at our convention Taco Tuesday to kinda kick it off, and that is always a big hit.
• 4:04
  Michael Moore: So, uh, I invite anyone to come on, uh, come on by the TACO show in April and, uh, have some tacos.
• 4:10
  Brian Searl: All right.
• 4:10
  Brian Searl: Sorry, I had to just get that one out there.
• 4:12
  Brian Searl: I thought that was no politics there.
• 4:13
  Brian Searl: Um, Miguel, please introduce yourself, sir.
• 4:15
  Brian Searl: Welcome.
• 4:17
  Miguel Huerta: Hello, everyone.
• 4:18
  Miguel Huerta: Um, my name is Miguel Huerta.
• 4:20
  Miguel Huerta: It's, uh, it's a blessing and a pleasure to, to be back on the show.
• 4:24
  Miguel Huerta: Uh, I was on a work, uh, hiatus, let's call it like that.
• 4:29
  Miguel Huerta: Um, I don't know if you saw on social media and on TV, but, uh, the, the streets in Mexico, they were packed.
• 4:37
  Miguel Huerta: Uh, people, they were, uh, throwing people in the air.
• 4:41
  Miguel Huerta: Uh, they, they, they were doing some, uh, crowd surfing.
• 4:45
  Miguel Huerta: It was great.
• 4:45
  Miguel Huerta: It was great.
• 4:46
  Miguel Huerta: Although not so much for the tourist industry in Mexico.
• 4:50
  Miguel Huerta: Uh, I, so I have couple of insights.
• 4:53
  Miguel Huerta: But yeah, uh, it wa- it was a fun time to be around in Mexico.
• 4:58
  Brian Searl: Glad to have you back, sir.
• 4:59
  Brian Searl: Uh, and last but not least, our two special guests.
• 5:01
  Brian Searl: Uh, McKay, you wanna go first?
• 5:03
  McKay Quinn: Yeah, thanks.
• 5:04
  McKay Quinn: Thanks for having me on, Brian.
• 5:06
  McKay Quinn: My name is McKay Quinn.
• 5:07
  McKay Quinn: I'm the founder of Dwell Outdoor Hospitality.
• 5:09
  McKay Quinn: We're a owner and operator of RV resorts in the Mountain West, uh, stretching from, uh, Wyoming and Idaho down into Utah and Arizona.
• 5:19
  McKay Quinn: And, uh, we, we mostly own what we manage and, uh, excited to be here.
• 5:25
  McKay Quinn: We're, uh, we're leaning heavily into, um...
• 5:28
  McKay Quinn: We've launched a brand a couple weeks ago called Dwell RV Communities, and, uh, leaning into long-term RV living is a big part of what we're doing.
• 5:39
  Brian Searl: Awesome.
• 5:39
  Brian Searl: Excited to have you here, sir.
• 5:40
  Brian Searl: Last but not least, from across the pond.
• 5:42
  Brian Searl: Can I say across the pond even though it's technically between France and the UK?
• 5:45
  Derry Green: Yeah, we, we, we're far across the pond.
• 5:48
  Derry Green: That'll do.
• 5:50
  Derry Green: Yeah.
• 5:50
  Derry Green: Uh, yeah, so great to be back again, Brian.
• 5:52
  Derry Green: Um, my name's Derry.
• 5:53
  Derry Green: I'm the founder of The Secret Garden Glamping.
• 5:56
  Derry Green: We're the UK's most followed, most viewed, and most booked glamping brand.
• 6:00
  Derry Green: Um, we have five locations across the UK and now in Ireland as well, with a further six opening, uh, this year.
• 6:08
  Derry Green: Uh, I also am the president of GITA, the Glamping Industry Trade Association for the UK.
• 6:14
  Derry Green: Um, so working with lots of owner-operators and, uh, yeah, really exciting times over here.
• 6:20
  Brian Searl: Which I'm a member of GITA too.
• 6:22
  Derry Green: There you go.
• 6:22
  Brian Searl: I don't think I've done anything with my membership yet- but I am a member, so.
• 6:26
  Derry Green: Thank you.
• 6:27
  Brian Searl: Coming when I have time.
• 6:30
  Brian Searl: All right, so, uh, to our normal recurring guests, I kind of toss out this first question at the beginning of the show to, to Raf, to Phil, to Miguel, Scott, uh, Michael too, uh, now that you're a recurring
• 6:39
  Brian Searl: guest.
• 6:39
  Brian Searl: If you wanna weigh in, is there anything that's come across your gentleman's desk since we last got together you think we should be talking about, kind of primarily related to your data in, in industry insights, trends, and stuff
• 6:49
  Brian Searl: like that?
• 6:52
  Rafael Correa: Sure, I'd be happy to kick it off, um, and then pass it off to whoever wants to go next.
• 6:56
  Rafael Correa: But, you know, from a Blue Water perspective, kinda what we're seeing, our, our whole portfolio, we're about up 8% over same time last year as a portfolio.
• 7:06
  Rafael Correa: Um, I would tell you that that's eroded, uh, since early summer.
• 7:11
  Rafael Correa: I think we were at 12...
• 7:12
  Rafael Correa: 11, 12%.
• 7:14
  Rafael Correa: And of course, this is a mix of stabilized, uh, resort properties, more long-term stay properties that are in Texas, so it's a very diverse pool of assets.
• 7:23
  Rafael Correa: Um, uh, definitely we've had to work for it is the best way to describe it.
• 7:28
  Rafael Correa: Uh, it's not, it's not coming easy, and I think this is, you know, the tough times start to really kind of show you what you're made of in a lot of ways, and I'm, you know, been very pleased
• 7:37
  Rafael Correa: and, and, and proud of my team for what they've been able to accomplish in this kind of like you gotta fight, f- fight for every piece of market share that you get.
• 7:45
  Rafael Correa: Um, the drag is definitely on the RV side.
• 7:48
  Rafael Correa: Uh, transient RV side to be specific.
• 7:51
  Rafael Correa: You know, seasonal RV, we've sold a lot more seasonal RV.
• 7:54
  Rafael Correa: That trend, I'm sure everybody's hearing it, it's a, it's a big component that, of kind of what's created some of the stability for this year.
• 8:01
  Rafael Correa: Uh, vacation rentals, on the other hand, are doing really well, uh, and performing strong.
• 8:05
  Rafael Correa: And the, obviously, the distribution that we have, uh, through all the other, you know, vacation rental platforms has been very helpful, uh, and contributed significantly to exposing people to this type of stay and travel.
• 8:17
  Rafael Correa: And so, um, you know, on the park model side of the business, 'cause we also are in that world, um, we've seen...
• 8:25
  Rafael Correa: We've had a good year, I wouldn't say a great year, uh, but it's been steady.
• 8:28
  Rafael Correa: Uh, and what we are seeing is a lot of renewed interest, and I think it correlates to what we're seeing on our stay patterns where people are really liking the VRs.
• 8:37
  Rafael Correa: We're seeing a lot of bigger projects come back to life and bigger orders that are in the kind of planning phase, where people are asking for proposals for, you know, 10, 20, 30, and sometimes even up to 50
• 8:47
  Rafael Correa: units, uh, that they wanna deploy out there because I think they see the, the value add that park models can bring to RV resorts or, or other facilities that can leverage that type of accommodation.
• 8:58
  Rafael Correa: So I would say the other kind of neat observation that we've seen this year is, um, September is, uh...
• 9:05
  Rafael Correa: August, where Labor Day was last year, uh, is now fully into September this year.
• 9:10
  Rafael Correa: And so we were expecting to see a drop-off in A- uh, sorry, am I getting that backwards?
• 9:14
  Rafael Correa: I think Labor Day is in August this year, right?
• 9:18
  Brian Searl: Maybe you're-- I'm in Canada, man, I don't know.
• 9:21
  Rafael Correa: That's right, you don't even...
• 9:22
  Rafael Correa: Yeah, you have silly holidays.
• 9:24
  Rafael Correa: Regardless, it moved from one month to the other.
• 9:26
  Rafael Correa: The point being is that the, the month that it left we were expecting to have a drop off, but it's actually been very strong.
• 9:32
  Rafael Correa: And so both August and September are looking really good to finish the season off strong, which is, uh, was a neat and, uh, and welcome, uh, signal that we're seeing from people that are still planning RV trips.
• 9:45
  Rafael Correa: So I'll, I'll take a pause there.
• 9:47
  Brian Searl: I'm curious from your perspective, uh, Raf, if you're willing to share, like why, why do you think or do you have a sense of, if you don't know, why transient RV is, is weaker?
• 9:56
  Brian Searl: Because I think I'm seeing that, and I think Scott would say he's seeing that too, uh, across not, like on a macro level across the industry, not a micro level.
• 10:05
  Brian Searl: There are certain places that are doing good with it, right?
• 10:07
  Rafael Correa: That question just tells me that you don't drive a diesel truck.
• 10:14
  Rafael Correa: So how is your EV?
• 10:15
  Rafael Correa: You're looking real smart right now, right?
• 10:17
  Rafael Correa: Um, you know, I think that that's, I think that's a big factor, right?
• 10:21
  Rafael Correa: Is that, that longer trip, um, you know, I live in a community also where, uh, sport fishing is a huge hobby and activity.
• 10:28
  Rafael Correa: And so these, to fill these giant, you know, 50, 60-foot sport fishing boats is, is not an inconsiderate, or not a, not a, um, a small matter.
• 10:37
  Rafael Correa: So the, even we're seeing it even there.
• 10:40
  Rafael Correa: Like the, the boats are leaving the dock less, uh, because of what it costs to, to fuel and do a, a day of fishing.
• 10:47
  Rafael Correa: It's just, it's gotten so expensive.
• 10:48
  Rafael Correa: And so I think that that's, you know, probably by far the thing that's got people spooked and even more than the reality of the cost implication, uh, for what is still affordable way to travel, it is, um, it's
• 11:02
  Rafael Correa: the perception, right?
• 11:03
  Rafael Correa: Of like, I'm not sure, I don't feel safe spending money and, you know, and so I want to be more guarded with my spend.
• 11:09
  Rafael Correa: And so that's the, that's definitely, you know, my perception of it.
• 11:13
  Rafael Correa: I don't know, uh, and I think in- inherently by selling a lot more long-term stays and seasonal stays, there's some natural cannibalization that's happening there as well.
• 11:21
  Rafael Correa: Like that person who would've traveled is now just staying at one RV resort.
• 11:24
  Rafael Correa: And so there's all those factors are at play, um, you know, that in my opinion are what, are the primary reasons that people are uncomfortable making, uh, more booking commitments.
• 11:37
  Brian Searl: So I mean, this is what interests me and like I, and I, and then we'll move on to somebody else 'cause I don't want to monopolize the show, right?
• 11:42
  Brian Searl: But like just generally speaking, this is what int- this is what interests me.
• 11:46
  Brian Searl: Do you think then, and I understand gas prices are the thing, diesel is higher than gasoline and so I'm, I'm with you on all that and I don't own a car by the way, uh, at all.
• 11:54
  Brian Searl: So I just piggyback and hi- uh, hitchhike on my girlfriend's car.
• 11:59
  Brian Searl: But, uh, it, it- I have a sense that your second point with the uncertainty, with the cutting back, with the increased costs of everything in everybody's lives that's maybe just starting, maybe peaking, whatever it is, uh, is more
• 12:16
  Brian Searl: of a factor in my belief, and I'm not saying I'm right, but just my belief, than is the temporary diesel prices.
• 12:23
  Brian Searl: Because if it was just temporary, and I know, I know you're not saying it is, so I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, right?
• 12:28
  Brian Searl: Um, if it was just the diesel prices, then you would expect that once diesel prices come back down, which may or may not happen this week, tomorrow, the 88 times previously that we've had peace, or next month, or
• 12:40
  Brian Searl: next year, or whenever that is, uh, then RVing would naturally come back.
• 12:45
  Brian Searl: But do we think that's the case, that it's just that suppression, or is it more factors?
• 12:49
  Rafael Correa: No, and that's, that's kinda why I also expanded that to say the perception, right?
• 12:53
  Rafael Correa: Like, I think the exacerbated fuel prices is just one more reason people are already somewhat guarded about their pocketbook and being more conscientious of how they're spending.
• 13:02
  Rafael Correa: You know, although, you know, Wells Fargo pub- published some data that, you know, they see paychecks going up 'cause they see all the direct deposit activity, and they see that the direct deposits are outpacing, you know, the cost
• 13:13
  Rafael Correa: of living.
• 13:14
  Rafael Correa: And so, that the raises are coming through, and that they see spend, you know, continuing to be strong.
• 13:18
  Rafael Correa: And so I'm not sure what the, you know, what is it the, the RVer psychology that might still not be there, right?
• 13:26
  Rafael Correa: 'Cause that's a subset of the data that Wells Fargo's probably looking at.
• 13:30
  Rafael Correa: Um, but, you know, my, my assumption, my, you know...
• 13:34
  Rafael Correa: And, and I think this is all still post-COVID hangover, right?
• 13:37
  Rafael Correa: Uh, you know, we're still not through it completely, you know, in my honest opinion.
• 13:42
  Rafael Correa: So you have both of those factors at play that, you know, my hope as we return to the pre-COVID, you know, what we've been very accustomed to in this industry pre-COVID was, like, this very steady marginal growth rate
• 13:54
  Rafael Correa: every year that you could just kinda count on, right?
• 13:56
  Rafael Correa: And it went that way for years, and years, and years, and years.
• 13:59
  Rafael Correa: And then COVID was this, like, you know, catapulted it, which put us in a bubble for, you know, lack of better terms, and now we're, we're recovering from that hangover.
• 14:09
  Rafael Correa: Uh, that bubble burst, and we are now seeing what the new growth trajectory is, and nobody has a really good feel of what that is, uh, or I think a really good idea of what that psychology of the,
• 14:20
  Rafael Correa: the average RVer that making them maybe RV less or choose to do something else, right?
• 14:24
  Rafael Correa: Because it, it, that may also be what's happening.
• 14:26
  Rafael Correa: It's 'cause I think, you know, every airport that I've been to this summer has been packed, so it's not like people aren't traveling.
• 14:34
  Brian Searl: Scott, do you have anything you wanna add to that or take it in a different direction?
• 14:37
  Scott Bahr: Y- yeah.
• 14:38
  Scott Bahr: I mean, I th- it's, it's, uh- I think what we're seeing right now are some really interesting, um, market dynamics and, and, um, changes.
• 14:48
  Scott Bahr: And we're, I think we're just starting to see, um, how that's gonna play out.
• 14:54
  Scott Bahr: And, you know, I've, I've done some, some research recently, and I, unfortunately I can't share much of it with you, but one of the things I can say is that, um, what we're seeing right now is that it
• 15:04
  Scott Bahr: appears that for many, that the, the type of travel they're taking is less diversified, if that makes sense.
• 15:14
  Scott Bahr: They're not taking the same variety of trip types that we saw just a few years ago when we saw a lot of blended travel where people would, would, you know, have, you know, maybe stay at a short-term rental
• 15:26
  Scott Bahr: somewhere.
• 15:27
  Scott Bahr: Maybe they'd camp.
• 15:28
  Scott Bahr: Maybe they'd go to a resort.
• 15:30
  Scott Bahr: Um, and we saw a great deal of that happening.
• 15:33
  Scott Bahr: It appears that that is narrowing, that, that people are less likely to take that variety of trips, more likely to take just one type.
• 15:43
  Scott Bahr: And that applies even to, like, distance traveled, where they're much less likely to take trips of varying mileage and, and driving distance or travel distance away from home.
• 15:55
  Scott Bahr: So not just the idea that they're staying closer to home overall, but there's less, they're less likely to include trips of, of variety, for lack of a better way of, of, of putting it.
• 16:09
  Scott Bahr: So it seems like, and here, this is just me blabbering a little bit about it, but it feels a little bit like people as, as this, you know, these economic conditions are wearing on and wearing people down a
• 16:23
  Scott Bahr: little bit, that there's some kind of comfort in just kind of knowing what you're gonna do, knowing where you're gonna go, what to expect, all those things.
• 16:31
  Scott Bahr: The risk involved, I feel like we're in a, a much more risk-averse environment right now, and that may...
• 16:39
  Scott Bahr: I could have probably saved myself a lot of time just by saying that.
• 16:42
  Rafael Correa: Good word.
• 16:46
  Brian Searl: Uh, do you, do you feel like though that, like to me, if you're an RVer and you own your RV and you regularly go camping two, three, four times a summer, maybe even longer, right?
• 16:57
  Brian Searl: With the baseline, what, one to two trips a year is what the average is for in a, in a private campground at least.
• 17:03
  Brian Searl: Um, if that's your baseline, isn't that already your comfort level though?
• 17:07
  Brian Searl: So why would, why would you back off of that?
• 17:09
  Brian Searl: Wouldn't you just stay closer to home like we've been talking about for a while?
• 17:12
  Scott Bahr: Well, I mean, that's a, that's a fairly narrow part of the market, honestly.
• 17:16
  Scott Bahr: It's, um, the, the, the rest of the market o- out there is, you know, there, there are a great number of people who take, you know, who, who did take, um, you know, this, these different types of trips.
• 17:30
  Scott Bahr: And, um, it just seems like even when we ask questions about like reasons why or why not they do something or don't do something, it, again, it's much narrower.
• 17:42
  Scott Bahr: That in the past, and I've been, I've been super interested in this, this topic and I, so I've been, uh, looking at it in more detail, which is if someone tells you, like, "Why, why aren't you gonna go
• 17:53
  Scott Bahr: camping this year?"
• 17:54
  Scott Bahr: And we'll pro- say we'll have a whole list of reasons.
• 17:58
  Scott Bahr: In the past, a person may, it may be like all these things have to converge for them not to go.
• 18:03
  Scott Bahr: It's like, ah, the kids got school, work's a pain, um, oh, and the price of gas is a little much, so it's like, ah, I'm not going.
• 18:11
  Scott Bahr: It's, now it's one thing.
• 18:14
  Scott Bahr: It's typically one thing comes up.
• 18:16
  Scott Bahr: Oh, it could be, ah, the, the kids got activities, or work's a pain, or gas prices.
• 18:22
  Scott Bahr: So you're not seeing the same, like the, the whole, like the algorithm that creates people, um, creates the, the situation where they will or won't participate, a- again, has narrowed, which means it's much less stable than it used
• 18:37
  Scott Bahr: to be.
• 18:38
  Scott Bahr: That means that that person who in the past may have just taken one or two trips, now one thing can interfere with their trip and they won't go, and that's why the market is a little bit maybe all
• 18:49
  Scott Bahr: over the place at the moment.
• 18:50
  Scott Bahr: I know it's, um, in some areas it's doing well, some not so well, but overall, I, that's kind of something that I've been looking into a little bit more and I feel like it's, it, it's, it's fairly relevant
• 19:04
  Scott Bahr: too.
• 19:06
  Brian Searl: Does that get more stable into 2027, in your very early lack of data opinion, or does it become more wobbly?
• 19:15
  Scott Bahr: It becomes more wobbly unless something changes.
• 19:17
  Scott Bahr: Sure.
• 19:18
  Scott Bahr: Um, if, if, if we're on this path, it's gonna become even more wobbly.
• 19:23
  Scott Bahr: So that's, that's why like when, when Ravi when you mentioned that, that we had to work harder, it's kinda like I, I think there's a lot of people that are gonna have to work harder.
• 19:32
  Scott Bahr: It's, I'm not saying it's, it can't be done.
• 19:34
  Scott Bahr: I'm not saying that at all.
• 19:35
  Scott Bahr: In fact, I think it's very achievable.
• 19:37
  Scott Bahr: But yeah, y- you're gonna probably have to work a lot harder to do that, to find those wobbly people and address that one reason, that one or two reasons that, that prevent them from, from, uh, coming out and
• 19:48
  Scott Bahr: staying with you or, you know, coming out at all or taking multiple trips even, is which what we'd like to see more of
• 19:56
  Brian Searl: Michael, you have anything to add or you wanna change subjects?
• 19:58
  Brian Searl: Or
• 19:59
  Michael Moore: No, I mean, I think I, I probably echo what, uh, Raf and Scott said already.
• 20:04
  Michael Moore: I mean, we're seeing that in Texas too, where, um, the transient business has definitely seen a, a bit of a dip compared to the long-term business, which is absolutely what the campgrounds are sort of leaning into now.
• 20:17
  Michael Moore: Uh, 'cause that's where the, that's where the need is, you know?
• 20:19
  Michael Moore: That's where the demand is.
• 20:21
  Michael Moore: So, and at the same time, you know, the accommodation side of things are doing very well.
• 20:25
  Michael Moore: I mean, and that kind of jives with, you know, I was looking at the RBIA monthly shipment numbers.
• 20:30
  Michael Moore: You've got the towables that are, you know, on a decline for the year, but then you've got the park models and accommodation units still going up, you know?
• 20:38
  Michael Moore: So I, I don't know that this kinda trend that's going on now, kinda like Scott said, I don't think it's, it's gonna stop anytime soon.
• 20:45
  Michael Moore: I think it's gonna kinda, you know, spill over into early next year at a minimum.
• 20:50
  Michael Moore: Um, and look, I think, you know, for, as far as a reason goes, let's face it, camping had its kinda moment post-COVID, right?
• 20:58
  Michael Moore: Like it was, it was the cool thing and it was a hot thing and that kinda stuff.
• 21:03
  Michael Moore: And so now it's definitely kinda slowed down.
• 21:06
  Michael Moore: And so, uh, uh, I just reiterate what everyone has said already, which is the campgrounds are gonna have to work probably doubly as hard to keep the business they have, let alone, you know, attract new business.
• 21:17
  Michael Moore: Because these campers, they've got other options, not just within the campground industry.
• 21:22
  Michael Moore: I mean, there's more campgrounds than there ever has been before, uh, but just another kind of travel accommodations too, whether it's a flight, whether it's a cruise or, or what have you.
• 21:31
  Michael Moore: So yeah, I, I don't know that I, I have anything different.
• 21:34
  Michael Moore: I think everything everyone has said is true and, uh, I think we all need to kinda accept it.
• 21:41
  Brian Searl: Well, we don't accept anything on this show, Michael.
• 21:43
  Brian Searl: Phil, fix it.
• 21:45
  Phil Ingrassia: Well, you know, uh, Rafael, I would just say that, um, being up 8% is, uh, something to be very proud of right now.
• 21:55
  Phil Ingrassia: Uh, I can tell you the RV dealers would be ecstatic-
• 21:58
  Rafael Correa: Tickled.
• 21:59
  Rafael Correa: Yeah.
• 21:59
  Phil Ingrassia: if retail was up 8%.
• 22:01
  Phil Ingrassia: We're going the other way.
• 22:02
  Phil Ingrassia: We're probably gonna be down between 8 and 12%.
• 22:06
  Phil Ingrassia: Uh, Patrick Industries, which is a huge supplier to the, uh, RV manufacturers, came out with their retail, uh, g- uh, forecast late last week, and they're, they're between 280 and 300.
• 22:22
  Phil Ingrassia: And we went into this year thinking we might be 340 to 350.
• 22:28
  Phil Ingrassia: So it's been, it's been soft.
• 22:30
  Phil Ingrassia: And, um, you know, I think a lot of it is just the consumer uncertainty that everybody's talked about You know, for years, uh, so many things are wrapped up into consumer sentiment, right?
• 22:46
  Phil Ingrassia: I mean, gas prices, stock market, job security, all these things in consumer sentiment.
• 22:53
  Phil Ingrassia: Well, right now consumer sentiment is, is, as reported by the conference board, is not good.
• 22:59
  Phil Ingrassia: And so that really takes its toll on discretionary purchases, whether it's an RV, boat, even a power sports.
• 23:07
  Phil Ingrassia: So it's, it's definitely a challenging environment.
• 23:11
  Phil Ingrassia: It's not a disaster, and I'm really glad to hear that, um, you know, there's a lot of interest in seasonal camping, and we've heard a lot about that, not only from the private campgrounds, but also the public campgrounds.
• 23:24
  Phil Ingrassia: State park systems are reporting, um, you know, packed over Fourth of July weekend and people, but they're staying closer to home because of the gas price situation.
• 23:35
  Phil Ingrassia: So, uh, the other thing that I've been looking at is used sales, used RV sales, and they are not nearly as, um, down year over year as new.
• 23:47
  Phil Ingrassia: So what's that tell us?
• 23:50
  Phil Ingrassia: It tells us that people are still there.
• 23:53
  Phil Ingrassia: They still wanna buy, but they're, they're looking for more affordable alternatives maybe than new.
• 24:00
  Phil Ingrassia: And I'll just say one more thing.
• 24:03
  Phil Ingrassia: Dealer inventory levels are in really good shape, but dealers are cautious.
• 24:07
  Phil Ingrassia: They're not gonna be reorDerryng as, at a, at a pace that maybe the manufacturers would like to see.
• 24:14
  Phil Ingrassia: Um, but you know, they're gonna be waiting for those, uh, you know, late fall, early winter shows to start bringing more, uh, RVs onto the lot.
• 24:26
  Phil Ingrassia: And, uh, this geopolitical situation, as Scott was talking about, really needs to stabilize before, you know, anybody's gonna put their foot on the gas
• 24:39
  Brian Searl: Before we pivot to glamping, McKay, since you're involved on both the long-term and short-term side and over there in, in Western United States where there's more drive time between places, right?
• 24:48
  Brian Searl: What are you, what is your sense of all this?
• 24:49
  Brian Searl: And then just for, for briefly before you go into that, tell us a little bit about what you, what you do at Dwell briefly.
• 24:56
  McKay Quinn: Yeah.
• 24:56
  McKay Quinn: Happy to.
• 24:57
  McKay Quinn: Um, so we, we do, we, we started so, I mean, it's part of our background and we, we started it at the peak of this, right?
• 25:06
  McKay Quinn: 2022, 2023 was things were great, right?
• 25:10
  McKay Quinn: Look- looked great to be an RV park investor.
• 25:12
  McKay Quinn: And, uh, um, you know, we were part of that, look lured into this, this asset class, if you will.
• 25:19
  McKay Quinn: But, um, we set out to build these campgrounds thinking originally that they were going to be transient and either, either destination, you know, next to a national park, or overnighters, weekend stays, kinda along major freeway corridors or highway
• 25:35
  McKay Quinn: connecting corridors.
• 25:36
  McKay Quinn: So we've quickly learned, you know, in the last couple of years that, um, you know, most of our revenue, 85% of our revenue is actually attributed to long-term stays.
• 25:48
  McKay Quinn: Um, and so we've leaned into that because that's where the market's at.
• 25:54
  McKay Quinn: In the locations, it's very location specific, but in the locations that we originally set out to build.
• 26:00
  McKay Quinn: And so we've been blessed to be able to be nimble and a- adapt to that and change our marketing, and that's something that is a, you know, beautiful thing with RV parks is they are flexible usually if your
• 26:13
  McKay Quinn: zoning allows to have longer term stays.
• 26:16
  McKay Quinn: And we're, we're now building a business completely on the thesis of the fact that the doll- the US consumer's dollar is going less and less far.
• 26:25
  McKay Quinn: Every, every day when the gas gas price goes up at the pump, you're, you, you know, inflation is real, and people are feeling it in the fact that they're not, you know, they're not going as far from home.
• 26:37
  McKay Quinn: They're not, uh, taking as many trips in their RV.
• 26:41
  McKay Quinn: And so we've just leaned in 100% to say, "All right.
• 26:44
  McKay Quinn: W- we're gonna view this more as a housing...
• 26:47
  McKay Quinn: This is more of an affordable housing solution than it is a, as a destination or a, a hospitality, um, asset."
• 26:54
  McKay Quinn: For, for the assets that make sense, you have to have demand drivers in terms of employment, um, and you also have to make sure that the affordability, you know, the alternatives to living in an RV are not less
• 27:07
  McKay Quinn: affordable than your, your site rent.
• 27:10
  McKay Quinn: So there are some metrics to keep your eye on, but that's, that's what we've leaned into and what we're really, you know, building our, our business on in any new acquisitions that we do.
• 27:21
  Brian Searl: Is there a sense, McKay, that you feel like, and, and to anyone else who wants to take this question after McKay too, who wants to weigh in on it, but is there a sense that there might be a,
• 27:29
  Brian Searl: a cap on the number of people who are willing to stay long-term, who either can buy an RV or want to get into this type of lifestyle, or have we not come anywhere close to that yet?
• 27:39
  McKay Quinn: It's a great, great question.
• 27:41
  McKay Quinn: Um, it's very hard to measure as well.
• 27:45
  McKay Quinn: Um, but what we...
• 27:48
  McKay Quinn: The way we see it is that- Um, i- if you're providing affordable housing at the kinda entry level and inflation continues to go on the up and up, there's going to be more and more people pushed into the
• 28:03
  McKay Quinn: category of needing the most affordable housing that there is.
• 28:06
  McKay Quinn: And so I believe that that is a growing segment, um, as long as we have these geopolitical, uh, constraints and we have in, uh, a high inflationary environment.
• 28:17
  McKay Quinn: So, uh, not exactly answering your question 'cause I, I don't know exactly how to measure, but I do think that, that, that consumer is growing, whether it's by choice or by necessity.
• 28:29
  McKay Quinn: We're also seeing a lot of people, uh, fixed income retirees that are saying, "Hey, maybe what I'll do is I will downsize into full-time RV living.
• 28:41
  McKay Quinn: I'll sell my assets, my house, my shop, my two acres of land up north, and I will go into a year-round RV situation," whether that's year-round in a market that is a good climate for year-round living, or they
• 28:55
  McKay Quinn: could still be splitting time, but they're not going back home.
• 28:59
  McKay Quinn: They're just going to an RV park in their hometown rather than going to their house.
• 29:05
  McKay Quinn: And so they're selling those assets to be able to, you know, maintain the lifestyle that they want.
• 29:11
  Brian Searl: So, so you don't think this is more by choice?
• 29:14
  Brian Searl: You think it's more they're kind of backed into a corner and need to do this, or?
• 29:20
  Brian Searl: Obviously macro and micro is different, right?
• 29:22
  Brian Searl: But mac- on a macro level.
• 29:24
  McKay Quinn: Yeah, I, I think you have both.
• 29:25
  McKay Quinn: I think you have both, for sure.
• 29:27
  McKay Quinn: Um, but it's probably more out of necessity right now because of the inflation.
• 29:32
  Rafael Correa: Yeah.
• 29:32
  Rafael Correa: And, and housing availability.
• 29:34
  Rafael Correa: I mean, that's another-
• 29:35
  Scott Bahr: Correct.
• 29:35
  Scott Bahr: Absolutely
• 29:35
  Rafael Correa: major constraint is that, you know, I mean, there, there's legislation they're trying to pass in Maryland right now to kind of at the state level to basically force all the counties to accept this concept of an accessory dwelling
• 29:46
  Rafael Correa: unit, right?
• 29:47
  Rafael Correa: So that they can create more housing rapidly.
• 29:50
  Scott Bahr: Yeah.
• 29:50
  Rafael Correa: Uh, and I think there's a lot of that legislation happening all over the country.
• 29:54
  Rafael Correa: Um, and so that, that's a response to a housing shortage that's real in a lot of places.
• 30:00
  McKay Quinn: That's right.
• 30:00
  Phil Ingrassia: I think another thing that's going on too, and Texas is certainly, uh, in the headlines right now with what one of my members calls, um, extended stay- Mm uh, type.
• 30:15
  Phil Ingrassia: They're, they're not gonna be there permanently, but they're, they're campgrounds that are going up around data centers or Amazon warehouses where, uh, you know, the, the, the housing situation is not n- uh, adequate to address the temporary workers
• 30:33
  Phil Ingrassia: or permanent workers that may be coming in.
• 30:35
  Phil Ingrassia: So, you know, I, I, I hear from my members in Texas about this phenomena and, uh, it's, it's really starting to make some national headlines about what is the exact answer to this because it creates a lot of
• 30:55
  Phil Ingrassia: different situations within the locality, especially if there are children involved and school impacts and things like that.
• 31:05
  Phil Ingrassia: So, you know, I think it's something that, um, is interesting for the industry to kind of try to balance, okay, here's the, here's the issues that are coming up.
• 31:17
  Phil Ingrassia: How are our products, how do they fit into that?
• 31:21
  Brian Searl: Yeah, because there's not really a, there's not really a standard stock answer now, right?
• 31:25
  Brian Searl: Like, if you're a campground that already exists and you're near a data center, great.
• 31:29
  Brian Searl: You've got a lot of extra business temporarily, right?
• 31:31
  Brian Searl: Right.
• 31:32
  Brian Searl: But if you're not a campground and you're looking to build one, you're not gonna build one for a temporary solution that could take six to eight months for them to build and then everybody's gone.
• 31:39
  Brian Searl: There's gotta be another reason for you to build there, right?
• 31:43
  Brian Searl: There's almost no model in the middle.
• 31:45
  Rafael Correa: Yeah.
• 31:45
  Rafael Correa: It's, it's, that's a care- that's a precarious situation to potentially put yourself in, uh, around those things.
• 31:51
  Rafael Correa: And so that's all well and good when the government's gonna pay for it and you're getting your ROI in the four or five years that you're gonna have this, you know.
• 31:58
  Rafael Correa: There, and there's companies that specialize in building those, you know, for lack of a better term, man camps, uh, that are that temporary housing solutions.
• 32:05
  Rafael Correa: Um, I think the other thing to consider, and there's a couple things you said there, Phil, that I think kinda really rang true for me, is that, uh, and it, it makes me think about another thing that I
• 32:13
  Rafael Correa: think about, which is this kind of boom of institutional capital that has come into the space.
• 32:20
  Rafael Correa: You know, how many RV resorts have been built?
• 32:22
  Rafael Correa: Are we somewhat hitting this kind of like, did the supply outpace the demand, right?
• 32:27
  Rafael Correa: Um, and, and, and in certain places I think that's a real, a real consideration.
• 32:31
  Rafael Correa: And I think the other thing that's happening, and I think all of these things are true at some level and converging, is that, um- Only the strong survive and our consumer is evolving very quickly, right?
• 32:45
  Rafael Correa: In how they search for campgrounds, what they expect from a campground, what they expect as far as amenities and, and accommodations, what they expect from a service level.
• 32:54
  Rafael Correa: Um, you know, we're now in the area of un- uh, in the era of unreasonable hospitality, right?
• 32:58
  Rafael Correa: And this thing of like where hospitality can be something more elevated, can be something better, and it's in the little things.
• 33:04
  Rafael Correa: And so it's challenging, I think, everybody in the industry, whether you're an institutional owner, whether you're a, um, a, a owner/operator, you know, of a family legacy campground, is that you gotta be reinvesting in your asset, you gotta
• 33:16
  Rafael Correa: be reinvesting in, you know, your marketing and how you sell, and you gotta be paying attention to your, to your demand drivers.
• 33:23
  Rafael Correa: Uh, McKay, to your point earlier, I mean, that's, that's so huge to understand why do people come see me versus anywhere else they can choose to go?
• 33:30
  Rafael Correa: And, and if you're not constantly focused on those differentiators and drawing new people to those differentiators, it's gonna get harder and harder, right?
• 33:37
  Rafael Correa: Um, and so this is where it's kind of the necessity is the mother of invention and there's a lot of necessity out there for us these days.
• 33:45
  Brian Searl: Well, and I think that's a good pivot to, to Derry probably- Mm and different, different experiences.
• 33:50
  Brian Searl: Uh, Derry, briefly introduce yourself and, and what you've got going on, 'cause I, I follow you on LinkedIn and I've seen you've been on the show- Yeah before.
• 33:56
  Brian Searl: I think it's been a couple years.
• 33:57
  Brian Searl: You've done a lot of great things in the industry over there.
• 33:59
  Brian Searl: So briefly tell the audience who you are and what you do.
• 34:02
  Derry Green: Yeah.
• 34:02
  Derry Green: So I started The Secret Garden Glamping, um, in COVID.
• 34:06
  Derry Green: Pre-COVID, I used to have a transport business shipping stuff to Europe and we, in that first lockdown, I lost my business and got stuck at home with the kids.
• 34:15
  Derry Green: We had a camping trip in the garden, um, it was great, just us.
• 34:19
  Derry Green: And in that first lockdown I built, I ended up building a pod in our back garden for me and the kids.
• 34:24
  Derry Green: It went viral online.
• 34:25
  Derry Green: Um, I decided to list it on Airbnb, and within two days it was fully booked for two years in advance.
• 34:31
  Derry Green: And then since then we've gone on, we've now got 27 units across five different locations.
• 34:38
  Derry Green: We usually book around 18 to 24 months in advance.
• 34:42
  Derry Green: We've had 100% occupancy for six years, and our whole focus is on changing the glamping market and what it is that people are looking for.
• 34:50
  Derry Green: And it's funny, 'cause I have absolutely zero to do with the RV market, but I've been sat here making little notes as I've been going along, and a lot of it rings true to what happened in the UK
• 35:01
  Derry Green: and to, to where we're at now.
• 35:03
  Derry Green: And it is slightly different, but it's still the s- the, from what I understand, 'cause my brother actually lived in Mississippi, is very similar to what the UK did quite a while back.
• 35:13
  Derry Green: And I think from the sounds of it, it's coming down the line for you guys.
• 35:17
  Derry Green: So with the US, actually just on fuel prices, we haven't had fuel prices as low as you guys since 1999, even though you're at the highest it's ever been over there.
• 35:26
  Derry Green: We haven't had it for 26 years that low.
• 35:28
  Derry Green: Um, but we, in the UK, we had a huge caravan market, so s- I, I guess a similar relation to your RV market.
• 35:36
  Derry Green: Obviously ours are a lot smaller, but static caravans specifically, um, which was a huge market in the '20s, '30s, '40s, and then all the way up to the '70s and '80s.
• 35:46
  Derry Green: Um, and that market has absolutely changed over the past 20 years, but significantly since kind of pre-COVID, which is where that was the leisure, hospitality accommodation, that's where you went on your holidays, you went to different holiday parks,
• 36:04
  Derry Green: we call them, uh, which are basically RV parks.
• 36:07
  Derry Green: Um, and that's where you had multi-generational families, all sorts of people visiting those.
• 36:13
  Derry Green: Now what's happened significantly with them is they, their whole market has changed to the long-term renter.
• 36:21
  Derry Green: So in the UK we have laws, you, you It's weird, you ha- you can live in it for, I think it's 340 days a year, so they basically have to move out for sort of two weeks and then
• 36:30
  Derry Green: come back again.
• 36:31
  Derry Green: But those holiday parks have really struggled over the past 10 to 15 years as the glamping sector and, uh, short-term rental accommodation has kind of come online.
• 36:43
  Derry Green: So since the event of, of- sites like Airbnb, there's been a huge shift in what people not only are traveling for, so the reasons around the traveling.
• 36:52
  Derry Green: Um, we're finding a lot of people are doing multiple shorter trips, occasional based, so anniversary, birthdays, weddings, those sorts of things, um, as opposed to the longer holiday trips.
• 37:05
  Derry Green: Because we have the same in the UK with, you know, the way the market's out at the minute, everything that's going on in and around with the US and all those sorts of things.
• 37:13
  Derry Green: So what we're finding here is that people are maybe canceling booking their specific summer holiday, Easter holiday, whatever it might be, and opting for the shorter, um, kind of occasional trips where they are going for a specific occasion,
• 37:31
  Derry Green: and then they are selecting, you know, um, either glamping or again, luxury accommodation.
• 37:37
  Derry Green: And that's what seems to have changed.
• 37:39
  Derry Green: And I think, again, my understanding from an, an RV point of view, 'cause I've got, again, friends in the US, it seems to be a bit of a...
• 37:46
  Derry Green: If you wanna go away for the weekend, okay, uh, it...
• 37:49
  Derry Green: I was talking to a friend of mine and he put it this way.
• 37:50
  Derry Green: If he wants to go away for a weekend in his RV with his family, it takes him three or four hours to pack everything up on a Friday.
• 37:57
  Derry Green: He's gotta drive to the campground.
• 37:59
  Derry Green: By the time he gets there, it's nighttime.
• 38:01
  Derry Green: Okay, so first day is Saturday morning.
• 38:03
  Derry Green: Where with something like a short-term rental accommodation or a glamping site that's an hour or two from your home, you can finish work on a, on Friday at 5:00 PM and you can be sat in a hot tub
• 38:14
  Derry Green: for 7:00 PM on a Friday evening 'cause you're just getting in the car with a, with a travel bag and off you go.
• 38:19
  Derry Green: Um, so these kind of multiple trips from an RV point of view seem to be crossing over into the glamping and, um, short-term rental sector.
• 38:32
  Brian Searl: Which is what, Scott, would you agree that like we're kind of seeing that, but just in the, the younger generation so far?
• 38:39
  Scott Bahr: Absolutely.
• 38:40
  Scott Bahr: And, and it's, it's one of the reasons for a lot of the, the lack of avidity and attrition that we, we see in that segment too, um, that the...
• 38:50
  Scott Bahr: And there are multiple factors that contribute to this, and, and Phil can probably attest to it as well, that it, that convenience factor is, um, is big.
• 39:01
  Scott Bahr: But typically, RVing appeals to people for different reasons than, than that.
• 39:07
  Scott Bahr: You know, there's a, there's a, there are other factors that people will opt for RVing because they know, they typically know that going in.
• 39:14
  Scott Bahr: What we lack a lot of, especially, um, within the younger generations, is the, um, knowledge, the knowledge base and experience to, uh, operate an RV and how to, um, you know, how to drive it, how to park it,
• 39:32
  Scott Bahr: just the, the, the base knowledge.
• 39:33
  Scott Bahr: And, and I actually have data that can show that very clearly, um, that, how, how big of a factor that is.
• 39:41
  Scott Bahr: But yeah, we absolutely, um, lose, um, from RVing, the, the idea that you can just fill up a bag with clothes and end up someplace like, like you said, Darian, a couple hours you're there soaking in the hot
• 39:54
  Scott Bahr: tub.
• 39:55
  Scott Bahr: You know?
• 39:55
  Scott Bahr: Yeah.
• 39:55
  Scott Bahr: There's some appeal to that, um, as well.
• 39:59
  Scott Bahr: Um- Well, it's crazy here in the US it's a little slightly different just because, you know, people t- you know, a lot of times want to multiple stops, multiple destinations, kind of that, the idea that you're self-contained is
• 40:09
  Scott Bahr: that appeal.
• 40:10
  Scott Bahr: But that, kinda that overnighter that we used to get a lot of, we lose those to the short-term rental, uh, whether it's glamping or others.
• 40:19
  Rafael Correa: Yeah, from pure convenience.
• 40:21
  Scott Bahr: Yep.
• 40:21
  Derry Green: Yeah.
• 40:22
  Derry Green: It's funny, you said just then, and I wrote it down here about five minutes ago, I wrote down generational differences.
• 40:28
  Derry Green: What happened in the UK and, and as you've just kinda reiterated then, the UK market or the UK caravan/RV type market, uh, was mainly made up of sales.
• 40:40
  Derry Green: So that was people buying a static caravan at a site where they'd go and visit it three, four, five, six times a year.
• 40:46
  Derry Green: Mm-hmm.
• 40:46
  Derry Green: So again, a similar sorta model.
• 40:48
  Derry Green: Now, that group of people who were buying them, which were usually, typically people between the age of sort of 35 to 55-ish, that age group has, you know, obviously got older and they still have that stock, but what
• 41:02
  Derry Green: we're finding in the UK is, I think as Phil was saying earlier on, new stock coming to market, the, the, the uptake on sales on that has dipped off a cliff in the UK over the past 10 years.
• 41:13
  Derry Green: Because people of my generation, so where my dad would've had a static caravan or RV, as I've come up, I wouldn't have that.
• 41:22
  Derry Green: So my generation and then the generations below are not filling those gaps like the, like the previous kind of 50, 60 years.
• 41:30
  Derry Green: And I put it here, the generational differences is, and, and I think that shift in the UK started about, about- 20 years ago, um, but only really came to fruition in the past sort of 10 years, and really
• 41:42
  Derry Green: importantly, in the past five years, where I would not go and buy a static caravan or RV.
• 41:49
  Derry Green: I would rather do multiple holidays to wherever I wanna go, and that might be locally, it might be nationally, it might be internationally.
• 41:56
  Derry Green: Um, and I think that's really gonna start to hit over the next probably five to 10 years in the US, where like you've said, somebody who's 18 to 20 now probably won't have been driving their RV with their
• 42:09
  Derry Green: dad for the past five or six years or know what to do with it.
• 42:12
  Derry Green: I think we have a, a similar situation from the UK here as well
• 42:18
  Brian Searl: Miguel, what does that look like in Mexico?
• 42:19
  Brian Searl: I, I don't think you have really had a developed RV market in Mexico, have you?
• 42:26
  Miguel Huerta: No, I, because insurance, it's an issue here in Mexico for RVs.
• 42:30
  Miguel Huerta: So, uh, the RV market is pretty non-existent in Mexico.
• 42:35
  Miguel Huerta: But if I may add what you...
• 42:37
  Miguel Huerta: Uh, I mean, I think that we're pretty much aligned even though that we're in different markets, um, both on the product and, and, and the country.
• 42:48
  Miguel Huerta: Um, here in Mexico, um, t- tourism got hit very hard by the World Cup.
• 42:56
  Miguel Huerta: Um, so for example, glamping, it had a decrease of 22%, uh, on, uh...
• 43:05
  Miguel Huerta: That, that was only in July, uh, in June, sorry.
• 43:09
  Miguel Huerta: Hotels had a decrease of, uh, on demand by 30%.
• 43:14
  Miguel Huerta: Um, with h- with the hotels, uh, a decrease of 31%.
• 43:19
  Miguel Huerta: And at the beginning I started to see, like based on the glamping, uh, product, which is where I, um, I have more data, and then I realized that i- in Mexico what happened i- is that consumption bas- basically
• 43:37
  Miguel Huerta: went downhill.
• 43:39
  Miguel Huerta: All the major retailers in Mexico, uh, show negative numbers.
• 43:44
  Miguel Huerta: Um, th- these retailers that are, that are listed in the Mexican Stock Exchange, except by one which is, uh, uh, called OXXO, which is like the Mexican 7-Eleven.
• 43:56
  Miguel Huerta: Because people, they will go to, to this convenience store, buy beer, watch the, the World Cup, and, and party on the streets.
• 44:05
  Miguel Huerta: Now, um, what I see from, uh, the comments from everybody is that we are in tough times, and I think that, uh, it's, um, very responsible to say that, uh, out loud because if we sugarcoat the state of
• 44:25
  Miguel Huerta: the industry, um, a lot of our listeners and viewers, um, right now I'm pretty sure that they are in need of a helping hand.
• 44:35
  Miguel Huerta: So, um, what I think, or at least what, what we're, uh, focusing right now, uh, in the Mexican Glamping Association and in my company is number one, we're paying very close attention to all the expenses.
• 44:52
  Miguel Huerta: Sadly, we have not been able to hire as much people as we want because at the end, um, we don't have the money for it and we need to, to, to survive.
• 45:02
  Miguel Huerta: Um, and the second one, it's, uh, demand creation.
• 45:07
  Miguel Huerta: Because if we think that, uh, that, that, that we're gonna make it through because of organic demand, sadly, that's not the case.
• 45:16
  Miguel Huerta: And I think that that's important for a lot of people, that they need to go back to basics and even challenge their perceptions on what used to work back in the day.
• 45:28
  Miguel Huerta: Uh, it, it was funny because on my way here, um, I was listening to a podcast with the guy that runs the Savannah Bananas, y- you know, like, this colorful and cheerful baseball team.
• 45:41
  Miguel Huerta: And I think that, uh, the industry, it's on the verge of having people like that reinventing products, reinventing, um, the demand for their location.
• 45:55
  Miguel Huerta: Otherwise, it, it will be very hard.
• 45:57
  Miguel Huerta: And sure, um, I, I've been reading and listening to a lot of information saying that right now you have to prime, uh, your ADR and what's not.
• 46:09
  Miguel Huerta: But I think that right now you need to take a very close look on your expenses and maybe say, "You know what?
• 46:18
  Miguel Huerta: Maybe we, we need to decrease our rates."
• 46:21
  Miguel Huerta: I, I don't like that word because, uh, I mean, it's very easy to decrease the rates, but very hard to increase them.
• 46:27
  Miguel Huerta: So be very careful on, on, on that.
• 46:29
  Miguel Huerta: Um, but demand creation, it's extremely important.
• 46:33
  Miguel Huerta: Like, these detox, um, uh, trips that people are going, you know, uh, where they don't wanna be attached to their phones, uh, or they don't want their kids to, to, to, to be all the time watching Netflix and,
• 46:47
  Miguel Huerta: and being on TikTok.
• 46:49
  Miguel Huerta: So I mean, that's my advice.
• 46:52
  Miguel Huerta: I don't know what you think about that, guys.
• 46:53
  Brian Searl: Well, I think that's what, and I'm not put words in your mouth, Derry, but I think that's what you did, right?
• 46:57
  Brian Searl: Is you created demand with your product.
• 46:59
  Brian Searl: You could have just said like, I had a great experience with my daughter in the backyard and now I want to do glamping like everybody else.
• 47:05
  Brian Searl: But you did something different.
• 47:06
  Brian Searl: You created demand and it's shown in your bookings, right?
• 47:10
  Derry Green: Yeah, exactly.
• 47:11
  Derry Green: So when I talk about this business, there's two things I always say about.
• 47:14
  Derry Green: One is we are not an accommodation provider.
• 47:17
  Derry Green: That's not our job.
• 47:18
  Derry Green: Our job isn't to provide a hotel room.
• 47:20
  Derry Green: I'm not the Hilton.
• 47:21
  Derry Green: What we do is provide experiences.
• 47:23
  Derry Green: So why is somebody coming?
• 47:25
  Derry Green: As I said earlier on, the occasion type stays when they're coming for an anniversary, a wedding, a birthday.
• 47:31
  Derry Green: Those are special things and they want memories from that.
• 47:34
  Derry Green: And how do they create memories?
• 47:35
  Derry Green: So that's our whole focus has always been on everything else except for the unit.
• 47:40
  Derry Green: With glamping, again, I remember going camping as a kid with my parents.
• 47:45
  Derry Green: And I distinctly remember we spent maybe an hour pitching the tent and getting it all set up.
• 47:50
  Derry Green: And then we walked away.
• 47:51
  Derry Green: And for two days, we'd swim in a river or climb a tree or whatever it was.
• 47:55
  Derry Green: What we didn't do was sit in a tent for two days.
• 47:58
  Derry Green: So when it comes to glamping or any other accommodation, why would accommodation providers think you're just sitting in a really fancy tent or a really fancy lodge or whatever for two days?
• 48:09
  Derry Green: That's not what you're there for.
• 48:10
  Derry Green: You're there to experience things.
• 48:13
  Derry Green: So that's number one.
• 48:13
  Derry Green: And then the second thing is, again, I've talked about it a lot.
• 48:16
  Derry Green: We are in theory a social media organization that owns a glamping site.
• 48:21
  Derry Green: So everything we do is based on how do we get over to our audience what they're going to experience there.
• 48:27
  Derry Green: Because attention spans are so minute now and people, a lot of people need things spelling out.
• 48:33
  Derry Green: So rather than trying to focus on existing clients and customers, which we do.
• 48:40
  Derry Green: You know, we, we, we, in the UK we take a lot from the hotel chains and that sort of stuff.
• 48:45
  Derry Green: But what we're ultimately trying to do, uh, to make a sustainable market, is create a new customer base, and that's what we do.
• 48:51
  Derry Green: In the UK, um, the For example, the black and ethnic minority communities in the UK are not traditional campers.
• 48:59
  Derry Green: It's, it, it just isn't.
• 49:01
  Derry Green: Um, so focusing on those markets and focusing on reasons why they would wanna come away and what we can offer those, uh, specific groups has really boosted our occupancy levels ultimately.
• 49:13
  Derry Green: You know, we're seeing year on year increase, not only on occupancy because we, y- we are fully booked, it is what it is, but on inquiries.
• 49:20
  Derry Green: And on, on year on year it is, it's just constantly going up, and that's because we're not focusing on the accommodation side.
• 49:27
  Derry Green: I think it was, um, Rafael was saying earlier about the reinvesting in the parks, in the locations.
• 49:33
  Derry Green: What is it they're gonna do when they're there?
• 49:35
  Derry Green: If they're spending a longer amount of time there, it can't be just a, a hookup.
• 49:39
  Derry Green: It needs to be, what else is there to do?
• 49:41
  Derry Green: What are you, uh, inevitably going there for?
• 49:44
  Derry Green: Um, and that is usually, or hopefully, to spend time with family, friends, reconnect, celebrate, these sorts of things, and you need to have the ability to be able to do that.
• 49:55
  Derry Green: Um, and that's where short term accommodation works really, really well for those things.
• 49:59
  Derry Green: And then longer term accommodation needs to kind of catch up with those, those sorts of facilities.
• 50:08
  Brian Searl: Any thoughts on that?
• 50:10
  Michael Moore: I, I was just gonna add, I mean, it's similar to what, um, I was reading about hotels where, you know, besides the reasons we talked about here about, hey, they want, you know, consumer wants something more affordable, expenses
• 50:22
  Michael Moore: going up, they want the kind of goodies and perks, uh, with their stay.
• 50:27
  Michael Moore: They want some added value to it, or at least they wanna feel like they're getting added value to it.
• 50:32
  Michael Moore: And so that's why, again, we've all touched on it with, with campgrounds especially, is doing everything they can to show them an experience, you know, and, and make sure they d- they understand, you know, like Derry said, it's
• 50:44
  Michael Moore: not just a hookup and, like, see you later.
• 50:47
  Michael Moore: Like, they wanna feel good.
• 50:48
  Michael Moore: They want to feel like they're special, quite honestly.
• 50:51
  Michael Moore: Yeah.
• 50:51
  Michael Moore: And just another, uh, uh, kind of related note, but in our work with, uh, TACO, with the association, I can tell you, I've been here 20 years, and we're still sort of, uh, fighting cities and counties to distinguish
• 51:04
  Michael Moore: between RV park and mobile home park, because they still don't understand it, and they still lump us all together.
• 51:10
  Michael Moore: And so we, it's a constant sort of, uh, uh, education for both, you know, the municipalities and the consumer too, to kind of make sure they understand the difference between what we are and what, what a mobile home
• 51:23
  Michael Moore: park is, or long-term park is, or what have you.
• 51:26
  Brian Searl: Are we going to do two separate sides of the consumer?
• 51:29
  Brian Searl: And again, just intentionally lumping people into two groups.
• 51:32
  Brian Searl: There's many more, right?
• 51:33
  Brian Searl: But the people who might be pulled down to the affordability, like you just mentioned, Mike, or yeah, Michael.
• 51:39
  Brian Searl: Can I call you Mike?
• 51:40
  Brian Searl: I don't know if you like that or not.
• 51:41
  Michael Moore: My dad's Mike, but he's not here, so go ahead.
• 51:43
  Brian Searl: Michael, that's, we're talking to Michael then.
• 51:45
  Brian Searl: Uh, but pulled down into that, or the people who are either wanting to be pulled up or willing to be pulled up by the creation of such an experience like Derry built.
• 51:56
  Michael Moore: Uh, I was gonna say that, that's,
• 51:58
  Brian Searl: um- And spend the money, would give me a reason to spend the money
• 52:00
  Michael Moore: Well, I was gonna say, that's kinda where my head was going, was I think you have both tracks going where, again, it's the affordable sorta option for a lot of folks, and they kinda want the bare bones, "Hey,
• 52:12
  Michael Moore: I just need a place to stay," that kinda deal.
• 52:14
  Michael Moore: But then literally the polar opposite is those folks that have the money and have, uh, uh, the time to spend at those sort of what I'll call elevated experiences.
• 52:24
  Michael Moore: I, I guess for lack of a better term, it's kind of those middle class parks, uh, that are gonna see, I think, the biggest impact on, because it's no longer, hey, they're not good enough for a lot of
• 52:34
  Michael Moore: people as far as the experience, but it's also too much or too expensive for the people that are looking for the accommodation side.
• 52:42
  Brian Searl: Yeah.
• 52:42
  Brian Searl: It's the K-shaped economy that we're going into that's impacting the middle class RV parks, just like it's impacting the middle class people.
• 52:48
  Derry Green: I, I absolutely agree.
• 52:50
  Derry Green: I think there's a, a- again, fundamentally in the UK, there's a place for your back to basics camping, glamping type scenarios and the, the kind of elevated side, and that middle bit is a really sticky bit to sit
• 53:03
  Derry Green: in.
• 53:04
  Derry Green: Um, but equally what we're finding from an experience point of view, people are willing to pay for it and people are willing- willing to save for it.
• 53:11
  Derry Green: So I can walk out onto our car park this evening, and I guarantee there will be a Ferrari or a Lamborghini or something of that class on that car park, and I equally guarantee there will be a banger
• 53:24
  Derry Green: that's rusty and falling to bits.
• 53:27
  Derry Green: And equally, one person could afford it to stay here every single day of their life, and the other people can only afford to come maybe once in a couple of years for a special occasion.
• 53:36
  Derry Green: And we do have that variety from, from every class of society that come here.
• 53:41
  Derry Green: And just on the experience bit, one that if, we're, funnily enough, 'cause we're doubling down on it now, it's little things.
• 53:48
  Derry Green: Because it's not, it's the perceived value, which is what Michael said.
• 53:51
  Derry Green: It's not physical value, so we're not saying you need, you know, everybody needs to have, you know, gold bedding and, and champagne on tap and things like that.
• 53:59
  Derry Green: But it's that perceived value when customers arrive, and it's, it's the experience from when people ultimately find you, whether that be on social media or any other form of marketing, all the way through to when they arrive.
• 54:13
  Derry Green: It's that customer journey starts at that acquisition point, and it, it almost finishes once they arrive.
• 54:19
  Derry Green: Now, most people start the customer journey when they arrive, and you're already kind of too late then.
• 54:24
  Derry Green: So we had, last year we in, um- put in a guest services building at each of the locations.
• 54:30
  Derry Green: Little kind of small office where guests come and have a meeting point, and when they arrive we give them a glass of prosecco.
• 54:37
  Derry Green: It, the bottle costs us, like, $4 and we get maybe 10 glasses out of each.
• 54:42
  Derry Green: It's costing nothing.
• 54:43
  Derry Green: So when they arrive, they get a glass of prosecco and we check them in, and al- instantly they feel like this is the best place in the world.
• 54:49
  Derry Green: That little touch has made Our, our repeat bookings are up 72% on last year because of that one little detail.
• 54:59
  Derry Green: So we're doubling down on it now, and we've cleared about a quarter of an acre to make a whole new guest services, reception, concierge type scenario.
• 55:09
  Derry Green: Because, as we all know, first impressions count.
• 55:12
  Derry Green: That's what's important to people.
• 55:13
  Derry Green: And if you're there for, you know, we can focus on the units and we can focus on the infrastructure.
• 55:18
  Derry Green: Um, but once you're at a certain level, there's not a lot more you can do with it, you know, unless we go to adding things like swimming pools, tennis courts, those sorts of facilities which is your larger infrastructure.
• 55:30
  Derry Green: On the smaller sites or the smaller side, it's these, these little touches that make a huge difference and it's Like I say, when you go on holiday, you will never tell me what color the curtains were or what
• 55:42
  Derry Green: the carpet was like, but you will tell me about the person on reception who really helped or the person who served you, you the drinks and they remembered your name.
• 55:50
  Derry Green: Those sorts of things are what are important in this market, rather than the big statement pieces.
• 55:56
  Rafael Correa: Derry is, uh-
• 55:57
  Scott Bahr: That's a perfect-
• 55:57
  Rafael Correa: Sorry, go ahead, Scott, please.
• 55:59
  Scott Bahr: I, I was gonna say, no, that's perfect.
• 56:00
  Scott Bahr: That's a perfect sum- summation of hospitality, is something that- Yeah we talk about a lot, you know, that your goal is to have them talking about those things.
• 56:09
  Scott Bahr: Yeah.
• 56:09
  Scott Bahr: All those things that you just mentioned, and never mention, you know, kind of the, the, the other stuff, including the price.
• 56:18
  Scott Bahr: Yeah.
• 56:18
  Scott Bahr: So that's all I wanted to say.
• 56:20
  Scott Bahr: But yeah.
• 56:21
  Scott Bahr: Go ahead, bro.
• 56:21
  Scott Bahr: Sorry.
• 56:21
  Rafael Correa: I just wanted to know if pickleball is big in England, that's all.
• 56:25
  Derry Green: Yeah.
• 56:26
  Derry Green: They, they are popping up everywhere.
• 56:28
  Derry Green: Yeah.
• 56:28
  Derry Green: It's, uh, it is, it's funny enough, there's one locally.
• 56:31
  Derry Green: That's, I say one locally.
• 56:32
  Derry Green: I think there's about 10 in planning at the moment.
• 56:35
  Derry Green: Uh, but yeah, it's becoming a huge-
• 56:36
  Rafael Correa: The wave is there too, yeah
• 56:38
  Derry Green: yeah, huge wave across the UK.
• 56:40
  Rafael Correa: I was gonna say, don't build a tennis court.
• 56:42
  Rafael Correa: Build pickleball courts.
• 56:43
  Rafael Correa: That's all.
• 56:43
  Rafael Correa: Yeah.
• 56:44
  Rafael Correa: I've, I've built, I've built dozens of them in the past few years.
• 56:48
  Derry Green: Oh, the must.
• 56:48
  Brian Searl: Sometimes Derry doesn't need to build anything.
• 56:50
  Brian Searl: He's 100% occupied for a few years.
• 56:52
  Brian Searl: He's good.
• 56:53
  Brian Searl: He just needed the prosecco.
• 56:55
  Derry Green: Yeah.
• 56:55
  Derry Green: So we're, we're currently fully booked for summer 2027 now.
• 56:59
  Rafael Correa: That's awesome.
• 57:01
  Miguel Huerta: But I think that Derry is, uh, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that Derry is packed because he, he does an amazing job by promoting, uh, his prop- uh, his property.
• 57:14
  Miguel Huerta: And I think, and I...
• 57:16
  Miguel Huerta: It, it was very interesting and enlightening, uh, the insight that Scott provided were like the...
• 57:23
  Miguel Huerta: I mean, the, the young generation didn't know how to fix a toilet.
• 57:26
  Miguel Huerta: They didn't know how to drive a, a, a RV.
• 57:30
  Miguel Huerta: Um, for example, in our case, we hired a, a, a person who's in charge of doing social media content, and that it's doing like this, um, ex- uh, ex- uh, th- this FAQ type of videos, you know, where,
• 57:50
  Miguel Huerta: okay, how do I arrive there?
• 57:52
  Miguel Huerta: How do I arrive there, uh, by public transportation?
• 57:55
  Miguel Huerta: Um, I know those things that might be overlooked when you are taking a look on a P&L, you know?
• 58:02
  Miguel Huerta: Uh, so it, it, it, it...
• 58:04
  Miguel Huerta: I think that this unreasonable hospitality at the end, uh, sure, it focuses a lot on the product, but this is marketing, uh, 101, where there's five piece pricing, uh, promotion, the, um, the product, the, the, the location and,
• 58:22
  Miguel Huerta: and the people, um, that you need to focus on.
• 58:26
  Miguel Huerta: So let's go back to, to basics, I guess.
• 58:28
  Rafael Correa: I, I...
• 58:29
  Rafael Correa: One thing I would just...
• 58:30
  Rafael Correa: I know we're kind of running out of time, but, uh, I think there is one, in my opinion, this is just maybe my personal experience, but I believe it's gonna be prevalent in a lot of young people, but-
• 58:39
  Rafael Correa: Uh, you mentioned something about people don't feel comfortable fixing it, and RVs are intimidating, right?
• 58:43
  Rafael Correa: There's so many buttons and switches and this, that, and the other.
• 58:46
  Rafael Correa: And so one of the things that has changed for me with AI, you know, Google Gemini is, like, on speed dial on my phone, and I have f- never felt more empowered to take on, like, maintenance and home
• 58:57
  Rafael Correa: improvement projects as I am today, because I can literally, like, take a picture and send it to Gemini and be like, "What is this?
• 59:05
  Rafael Correa: What button do I push?"
• 59:07
  Rafael Correa: You know?
• 59:08
  Rafael Correa: What...
• 59:08
  Rafael Correa: And so, like, I, I...
• 59:10
  Rafael Correa: That, that, that not knowing factor feels that less distant for me than it ever has, and I feel like that this next generation, it's gonna be, you know, an answer is a, a picture and a phone connection away.
• 59:24
  Rafael Correa: And, and I, and I hope that's good for the RV industry, is what I'm saying at the end of the day, because it'll take some of that mystique and fear out of it.
• 59:33
  Rafael Correa: Other than parking it, 'cause that's, that, that's always gonna suck.
• 59:37
  Rafael Correa: It would be so fun.
• 59:38
  Rafael Correa: I,
• 59:38
  Brian Searl: I don't think you're wrong.
• 59:39
  Rafael Correa: But it's also part of the experience, so you know.
• 59:42
  Brian Searl: I don't think you're wrong, but I think that that also requires a certain type of person with curiosity, and, and I know we're gonna run maybe a couple
• 59:47
  Rafael Correa: But I, I'm coming from the perspective of somebody who would, like, never dare to fix anything.
• 59:51
  Rafael Correa: Like, I am the most non-handy person.
• 59:54
  Rafael Correa: I don't know if you can tell by looking at me.
• 59:55
  Rafael Correa: I'm sure you can.
• 59:55
  Brian Searl: But you're obsessed with Claude, so there's that flip where you're just like, "I wanna know what AI can do for me," right?
• 1:00:00
  Brian Searl: You're curious about it.
• 1:00:01
  Rafael Correa: Yeah, and that's what I've been sh- I've been blown away of how it can, like, step-by-step me through something.
• 1:00:05
  Rafael Correa: And, and, and the reason I just bring this up is 'cause what Miguel said and, and because of the, the, the RV and the maintenance and the intimidation factor.
• 1:00:12
  Rafael Correa: So, like, anyway, neither here nor there.
• 1:00:14
  Rafael Correa: I know we're kinda running out of time, and I got, I got another thing to go to.
• 1:00:17
  Rafael Correa: But it's, uh The world is shifting.
• 1:00:20
  Rafael Correa: That is the, that is an absolute fact, and, and we have to be cognizant and aware of it, and I That's why I appreciate this opportunity to connect with these great minds and great people to hear different perspectives,
• 1:00:29
  Rafael Correa: because that's where, that's the This is all the context that I'm putting in my own little, you know, old school AI up here.
• 1:00:36
  Rafael Correa: Uh,
• 1:00:39
  Brian Searl: Yeah, if you need to, if anybody needs to jump off, please go ahead and jump off.
• 1:00:42
  Brian Searl: Just say bye and, and we'll see you later.
• 1:00:43
  Brian Searl: I'm gonna just take-
• 1:00:44
  Scott Bahr: Bye everyone
• 1:00:45
  Brian Searl: one more question for you, uh, if you don't mind, if you have a second.
• 1:00:49
  Brian Searl: Um, just p- piggybacking off, off of what Miguel said, like I think I know how good you are at various social media.
• 1:00:56
  Brian Searl: We've talked about that on a previous show here.
• 1:00:58
  Brian Searl: Uh, you have the chops to do all that stuff and put together a great, you know, bar none probably, uh, that I've seen.
• 1:01:05
  Brian Searl: And so Miguel is right, the basics of social media need to be there, but also you have to have something to promote too.
• 1:01:11
  Brian Searl: You can't just be going on social media and promoting the same thing as everybody else, can you?
• 1:01:15
  Brian Searl: You have, it has to be both things, not just one, right?
• 1:01:19
  Derry Green: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:01:20
  Derry Green: So I, I learned very, very early on that marketing was the most import- most important part of the business by far.
• 1:01:27
  Derry Green: Because you can have...
• 1:01:28
  Derry Green: You know, I know of some absolutely amazing locations in the UK and in the US, you know, the most phenomenal units, the, the, the best views.
• 1:01:37
  Derry Green: And I can book every one of them today because they are Absolutely useless at marketing what they do.
• 1:01:43
  Derry Green: They might be great designers, great builders, but marketing fundamentally is what is at the heart of every business.
• 1:01:50
  Derry Green: And you're exactly right.
• 1:01:51
  Derry Green: What's happened in the UK, funnily enough, and I see it in the US a lot as well, people focused around the accommodation, the units, the facilities.
• 1:02:00
  Derry Green: So from sort of 2020 to about 2023, um, those three years, that's what people wanted to see.
• 1:02:08
  Derry Green: The- 'cause there was big differences.
• 1:02:10
  Derry Green: One person would have whatever, a pop-up tent, and another one would have a tree house with a hot tub and a sauna.
• 1:02:16
  Derry Green: So there was big differences in the market.
• 1:02:18
  Derry Green: Now, where we're at in 2026, those differences aren't as big, um, and with things like AI and Photoshop and lots of other things, I can make anything look like anything now.
• 1:02:30
  Derry Green: So those days of just kind of promoting a product as such are kind of gone.
• 1:02:35
  Derry Green: Um, and you see that with huge brands and small brands.
• 1:02:39
  Derry Green: What is resonating with people ultimately is your story.
• 1:02:43
  Derry Green: Now, I...
• 1:02:43
  Derry Green: You could take 10 glamping sites, and we could all have the same physical product, but we've got 10 different stories, I guarantee you.
• 1:02:50
  Derry Green: And that's what's, you know, what, what, what really kind of captivated people with, with us wasn't...
• 1:02:56
  Derry Green: It, it was the units to some extent, although we weren't the best units.
• 1:03:00
  Derry Green: I still don't build the best units in the market.
• 1:03:02
  Derry Green: I know of way better sites than mine.
• 1:03:05
  Derry Green: Um, but the story's captivating.
• 1:03:07
  Derry Green: The reason I do it is captivating.
• 1:03:09
  Derry Green: What I do on a daily basis is interesting, and getting people to buy into you as a brand is really, really important.
• 1:03:16
  Derry Green: And again, uh, in the UK, everybody's individual owner operators, very small niche businesses, so it's very easy to do.
• 1:03:24
  Derry Green: It's very difficult for Mr.
• 1:03:26
  Derry Green: Hilton to speak to his guests every day, to be on reception, to do those sorts of things.
• 1:03:31
  Derry Green: It's just not gonna happen.
• 1:03:32
  Derry Green: But me, as a founder, I can still go onto our social media platforms and talk with our audience.
• 1:03:37
  Derry Green: I can speak to our guests.
• 1:03:38
  Derry Green: I can go out to reception.
• 1:03:40
  Derry Green: I can answer the phone.
• 1:03:41
  Derry Green: I can do all these things even though we are the largest in the UK.
• 1:03:46
  Derry Green: I can still do all this because automation, Claude, ChatGPT can take away the bulk work, which you don't need to focus on.
• 1:03:54
  Derry Green: And ultimately, we're all trying to market ourselves as opposed to the business now.
• 1:03:59
  Derry Green: That's what is really, really important.
• 1:04:01
  Derry Green: I did, uh, Dragon's Den, which is Shark Tank in the US, and the whole point of me doing that wasn't for me to get bookings and sell my glamping units.
• 1:04:13
  Derry Green: The point of me doing that was just a marketing exercise.
• 1:04:15
  Derry Green: It was giving me an opportunity to speak to an audience about what I believe in, what is important to me.
• 1:04:22
  Derry Green: And when we look at market, at, at, at booking trends and spending trends, people are way more, um, prolific in spending money on things that either resonant, resonate with their core values, so what they believe in, what they
• 1:04:39
  Derry Green: think, those sorts of things, or ultimately that their, the money that they're spending is going to a good use.
• 1:04:46
  Derry Green: You know, we, we never feel good about staying at a Hilton and giving Mr.
• 1:04:50
  Derry Green: Hilton another couple of hundred dollars to add to his 200 billion, or whatever he's got.
• 1:04:53
  Derry Green: But if you go to a, you know, a local bakery, and there's a little lady there who's making cakes or bread or whatever, you feel good about spending that $10 with that firm.
• 1:05:04
  Derry Green: So that's, again, those things are really important now.
• 1:05:07
  Derry Green: There was a, a huge push from a sustainability point of view, so a su- you know, a kind of green credentials and your people being, um, really conscious about the environment.
• 1:05:18
  Derry Green: But that also flows over to not only what you're spending the money on, but who you're spending it with.
• 1:05:24
  Derry Green: So like I say, the, everybody's got their own story.
• 1:05:27
  Derry Green: There is...
• 1:05:28
  Derry Green: And I certainly wouldn't be...
• 1:05:29
  Derry Green: If I started today, I wouldn't be marketing glamping units.
• 1:05:32
  Derry Green: I'd be marketing why you should come with me on my glamping journey, on my glamping experience, on my glamping adventure.
• 1:05:42
  Brian Searl: Well said.
• 1:05:44
  Rafael Correa: Well said.
• 1:05:45
  Brian Searl: I don't know if I copied Raf or Raf copied me there, but, uh, okay.
• 1:05:48
  Brian Searl: So let's, let's wrap this up.
• 1:05:49
  Brian Searl: We're a couple minutes over.
• 1:05:50
  Brian Searl: Um, Michael, final thoughts and any, and where can they find out more about just, if you wanna promote the TACO Association, if you wanna promote AGS, whatever you'd like to promote.
• 1:05:59
  Michael Moore: Yeah, no, I, I, the final thought I think would be for RV parks, you know, a lot of the stuff Derry was saying for the glamping units, RV parks can do a lot of things, too- Yeah that don't
• 1:06:08
  Michael Moore: cost anything, you know?
• 1:06:09
  Michael Moore: I mean, I remember the first sort of example I heard of that was, again, 20 years ago when I started, and it was something as simple as just, you know, a, a staff or the front office person guiding
• 1:06:20
  Michael Moore: the person in the rig to their site, brushing off the pedestal, and like that's it, you know, brushing off the picnic table, whatever.
• 1:06:26
  Michael Moore: And again, it's not a big thing, but it's those small things that kind of, uh, can, can sort of avoid bigger things I'd say down the road.
• 1:06:34
  Michael Moore: So anyway, no, th- I, I think everything that's been said here has been great.
• 1:06:38
  Michael Moore: Um, for the, uh, Texas campground owners, uh, our membership site is tacomembers.com if you're a campground and would like to join.
• 1:06:47
  Michael Moore: Our consumer site is texascampgrounds.com, and then we have a consumer glamping site, uh, texasglampingresorts.com.
• 1:06:54
  Michael Moore: And then, yeah, on the, on the AGS side, again, we do, uh, marketing material and, and promotional material for campgrounds all over the country, every kind of brand, uh, and you can find us there at agspub.com.
• 1:07:06
  Brian Searl: All right, that was your only chance to promote yourself.
• 1:07:08
  Brian Searl: You have way too much-
• 1:07:08
  Michael Moore: I know, I know.
• 1:07:10
  Brian Searl: Raf, final thoughts, and where can they learn more about Blue Water?
• 1:07:13
  Rafael Correa: Uh, website's www.bwdc, that's bravo whiskey delta charlie.com.
• 1:07:21
  Rafael Correa: And, um, final thought is a quote I heard from Ken Griffin, uh, which is, "Good things come to those who wait, but only the things that were left behind by the people who hustle."
• 1:07:36
  Brian Searl: I don't know if that was Ken who originally said that, but we'll give him credit for it just for the sake of the podcast.
• 1:07:41
  Brian Searl: The Citadel guy, is who you're talking about?
• 1:07:43
  Rafael Correa: Yeah.
• 1:07:44
  Brian Searl: I don't know.
• 1:07:44
  Brian Searl: I've heard that for, like, 15 years from different people who have claimed credit for it.
• 1:07:48
  Brian Searl: But Ken's a smart guy.
• 1:07:49
  Brian Searl: He could've come up with that, for sure.
• 1:07:51
  Brian Searl: McKay, final thoughts and where can we learn more about, uh, Dwell Hospitality?
• 1:07:55
  McKay Quinn: Yeah.
• 1:07:55
  McKay Quinn: I'm gra- grateful for the invite to be here today and to, to share, uh, insights with, with everybody and learn from those that are, that are here.
• 1:08:03
  McKay Quinn: I, you know, to piggyback on Raf, I think, um, you know, the, you, you'll be rewarded if you can be nimble and adjust to where this is going.
• 1:08:13
  McKay Quinn: Um, there's, there's a lot of changes happening fast and this is an industry that hasn't really changed fast historically.
• 1:08:20
  McKay Quinn: It's slow to move but there's been a lot of changes and there, there continue to be and so those that can adapt I think will be rewarded for that.
• 1:08:29
  McKay Quinn: So those are my final thoughts and, um, you can find us at dwelloutdoorhospitality.com or, uh, on, on LinkedIn, McKay Quinn.
• 1:08:38
  McKay Quinn: So happy to be here, thanks.
• 1:08:39
  Brian Searl: Thanks, McKay.
• 1:08:41
  Brian Searl: Appreciate it.
• 1:08:41
  Brian Searl: Miguel, final thoughts?
• 1:08:45
  Miguel Huerta: No, it's, it's always a pleasure to, to spend some time with you guys, to pick up your brains.
• 1:08:51
  Miguel Huerta: Um, I'm a huge fan of the leaders in the industry.
• 1:08:55
  Miguel Huerta: Um, I think that I will love to have new leaders, and I think that this, uh, shake in, in the industry will create new leaders.
• 1:09:07
  Miguel Huerta: So I'm looking forward to learn from them.
• 1:09:09
  Miguel Huerta: May- maybe we're gonna see some Z ge- Z generation, um, type of leaders, you know, the TikTokers that, that they know how to do business with TikTok, and we, and we don't.
• 1:09:20
  Miguel Huerta: Uh, but yeah, um, in, in our case, um, I'm part of the Mexican Glamping Association.
• 1:09:26
  Miguel Huerta: You can look for us a- at, it's in Spanish, so it's asociacionmexicanadeglamping, eh, .com.
• 1:09:35
  Miguel Huerta: Uh, but yeah, I mean, the Spanish-speaking, uh, population, I think that it's critical for the, for this industry as well.
• 1:09:43
  Brian Searl: And if you're in America and need to find it and can't remember the spelling for what Miguel just said, I still have that domain I need to give you, Miguel.
• 1:09:50
  Brian Searl: I still own it.
• 1:09:52
  Brian Searl: I'll just give it to you.
• 1:09:53
  Brian Searl: So you can email me.
• 1:09:54
  Brian Searl: Uh-
• 1:09:55
  Miguel Huerta: Sounds great
• 1:09:56
  Brian Searl: but, like, just in case anybody in America doesn't spell Spanish correctly like me.
• 1:10:01
  Brian Searl: Uh, Phil, final thoughts?
• 1:10:05
  Phil Ingrassia: No, great to talk to everybody.
• 1:10:06
  Phil Ingrassia: I always like listening to the campground perspectives 'cause you guys are right on the ground and, um, you know, appreciate all you do for the RV customers who are the end users.
• 1:10:17
  Phil Ingrassia: And, uh, we are getting ready for our convention.
• 1:10:20
  Phil Ingrassia: We do professional development, and one of the things we're gonna be talking quite a bit about is, um, uh, at our convention coming up in November in Las Vegas is, uh, you know, AI capabilities to help make a
• 1:10:35
  Phil Ingrassia: more seamless experience through the buying and service process.
• 1:10:39
  Phil Ingrassia: So, uh, if people are interested in that, they can go to rvdaexpo.org.
• 1:10:45
  Brian Searl: You have a speaker for that, Phil?
• 1:10:46
  Brian Searl: You gonna let me come down and talk if I come to your conference?
• 1:10:49
  Phil Ingrassia: Sure.
• 1:10:50
  Phil Ingrassia: Come on down.
• 1:10:51
  Brian Searl: All right.
• 1:10:52
  Brian Searl: Derry, last but not least, sir.
• 1:10:54
  Derry Green: Um, do you know what?
• 1:10:55
  Derry Green: It's, it...
• 1:10:56
  Derry Green: I love doing this, um, and I go away excited about everything.
• 1:11:00
  Derry Green: And I am genuinely.
• 1:11:01
  Derry Green: I know you...
• 1:11:01
  Derry Green: There's a lot going on in the market.
• 1:11:03
  Derry Green: Um, things can look down at times, but ultimately, I, I have a, a kind of rejuvenated look at everything on a daily basis.
• 1:11:11
  Derry Green: Um, and I think there's some exciting times ahead, uh, for the UK and the US.
• 1:11:16
  Derry Green: A lot of changes, but again, as everybody said on here, if you're nimble and wanna look at it, then, um, then there's huge opportunities out there.
• 1:11:24
  Derry Green: Um, when things change, inevitably there's winners and losers, but there's, there's definitely a market there for it.
• 1:11:30
  Derry Green: Um, if anybody wants to get me, I love connecting with people, and I love chatting about the industry.
• 1:11:34
  Derry Green: I love chatting about social media.
• 1:11:36
  Derry Green: I love chatting about marketing.
• 1:11:37
  Derry Green: If anybody wants to reach me, um, we've got thesecretgardenglamping.uk is the glamping site website.
• 1:11:45
  Derry Green: As I said, I'm also the president of GITA, so that's the Glamping Industry Trade Association.
• 1:11:49
  Derry Green: That's gita.org, G-I-T-A.
• 1:11:52
  Derry Green: Um, we've got some amazing members on there.
• 1:11:55
  Derry Green: And then in September, I'm over at the Glamping Show in Denver, so the Glamping Show Americas.
• 1:12:01
  Derry Green: Uh, my first time over there, and I'm a keynote speaker at the conference.
• 1:12:05
  Derry Green: So yeah, anybody who's going there, come and see me.
• 1:12:09
  Derry Green: Um, I'd love to connect with anybody from any part of the industry.
• 1:12:15
  Brian Searl: Awesome.
• 1:12:15
  Brian Searl: Well, thank you all for being here and for sticking with us for a few minutes as we went over and had a good discussion.
• 1:12:19
  Brian Searl: Appreciate everybody.
• 1:12:20
  Brian Searl: Uh, if you're not sick and tired of hearing from me, me and Scott Bahr will be on Outwired in about 50-ish minutes now.
• 1:12:26
  Brian Searl: Uh, if not, we'll see you next week on another episode of MC Fireside Chats.
• 1:12:29
  Brian Searl: Thanks, guys.
• 1:12:29
  Brian Searl: Appreciate y'all.
• 1:12:31
  Derry Green: Take it easy.
• 1:12:32
  Rafael Correa: Yeah.
• 1:12:32
  Miguel Huerta: Bye.