Latest / Politics Between Us / Why Faiz Shakir Thinks Graham Platner Can Win in Maine — 'Mud Season' Episode 4

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Why Faiz Shakir Thinks Graham Platner Can Win in Maine — 'Mud Season' Episode 4 · Politics Between Us

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Hey everyone, I'm Allison B.A.
• 0:04
  I'm in my 50s,
• 0:05
  I live here in Maine,
• 0:06
  and I have decades of civil rights work behind me.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm Luca DeAngelis.
• 0:10
  I'm in my 20s,
• 0:11
  living in New York City,
• 0:12
  and I'm just trying to figure things out.
• 0:14
  Luca and I have been talking about politics and our personal
• 0:16
  lives for over a decade now.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and now we're bringing that conversation to you.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: This is a project about politics, purpose, and how to live a good life.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: Across generations, across disagreements, and across 30 years.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: This is Politics Between Us.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome,
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: everyone,
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: to Episode 4 of Mud Season,
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: our limited series about the U.S.
• 0:43
  Senate primary here in Maine between Governor Janet Mills and
• 0:48
  oyster farmer
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: newcomer Graham Plattner.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: although Allison,
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think before we really get into it,
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: I think we should name the elephant in the room,
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: which is that when we started this show,
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: it was built around a primary race that doesn't really exist anymore.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: Janet Mills has stepped out of the race,
• 1:04
  and now we know Graham Plattner is going to be facing Susan
• 1:07
  Collins in the fall.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: This is big news for us.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's big, I know.
• 1:12
  And just so you know,
• 1:12
  you were the first person I called when I found out.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then you didn't pick up the phone, but that's what you do.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: I might have still been sleeping.
• 1:22
  Okay.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, it's funny.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: I've been sitting with this for a while now and I realized that I am,
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: I sort of thought I would feel resolved once the decision was made,
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: who it was going to be,
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: but I actually feel more anxious.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think I was enjoying the comfort of the gray.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's really comfortable space for me.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I now feel like, oh my gosh, um,
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, here's the race and people just have to move forward.
• 1:46
  So I don't know,
• 1:47
  I've been surprised that my,
• 1:49
  I'm feeling less settled,
• 1:50
  not more settled.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: Okay,
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: well,
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: I was kind of feeling energized by it,
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: but now you're making me feel a little anxious myself.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's interesting.
• 1:59
  Now Graham Plattner really,
• 2:00
  I mean,
• 2:01
  he's carrying the full weight of this race now.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that really changes how this feels.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean,
• 2:08
  it's interesting to reflect now and think back to when you
• 2:11
  first met with him for
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: coffee.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: You met with him two days after he launched.
• 2:16
  And he,
• 2:17
  I mean,
• 2:17
  I don't think he knew what he was getting into or what this
• 2:20
  race would become.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: Credit to you, though.
• 2:22
  After that meeting way back in August,
• 2:24
  you were like,
• 2:24
  he's going to be president.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how serious you were being,
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: but your prediction is getting closer and closer all the time.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was definitely struck by something with him, for sure.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: You're right.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: For me,
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think what I'm really interested to see now is Plattner,
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: he's been running really against the Democratic Party.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we're starting to see the
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: What do they say?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: They're rallying the troops or whatever.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: But the mainstream Democratic Party is getting behind him now.
• 2:51
  And it's going to be interesting to see how he actually
• 2:54
  navigates that and also
• 2:57
  what his outreach is like to Mills voters who might have been
• 3:01
  so staunchly against
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: him.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: How does he bring those people on board now?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and that really brings up the question is, will...
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: the governor endorse Graham in this race, right?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's certainly been on my mind.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Another thing I'm anxious about.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm like, get on it.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: History isn't, I mean, I think it's.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, Luca, that is not, that is so not helpful.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, listen, come on.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Basically, they have, you know, there's no reason.
• 3:24
  She needs to do what any politician would do,
• 3:26
  which is to make sure that she has time
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: to think about it, to meet with him, to understand.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, he was gracious.
• 3:32
  And so,
• 3:33
  but I don't think this idea,
• 3:34
  like,
• 3:34
  what are you,
• 3:35
  like snapping your fingers,
• 3:36
  get on it?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, one of the most important Senate races in our history.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know, I'm like, let's present some unity here.
• 3:43
  If you are going to claim that this unseating Susan Collins is
• 3:48
  so important for our
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: democracy,
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: then you have to act like it when you leave the race and endorse him.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay,
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like we could go down a big rabbit hole on this,
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: but I do love you lecturing on what needs to happen.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: But let's bring us back to this week's episode and our interview.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Who are we talking to this week?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: so this week to help us think through what comes next in Maine,
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: we actually interviewed Faz Shakir,
• 4:18
  who was Bernie Sanders' 2020 presidential campaign manager and
• 4:23
  really one of the
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: leading strategists on the left right now.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: I was super grateful that Faz could sit down with us.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: I met Faz before the 2020 election when he was working at the ACLU,
• 4:34
  and he has been thinking about how democratic politics can move
• 4:39
  forward for a long
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: time.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I have to say,
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: though,
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: the conversation went in directions I wasn't expecting,
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: and I loved his thoughts on
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: how politicians need to be more responsive to people themselves,
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: like actually how to listen to and engage with the people who elect them.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, populism.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: everyone's throwing that word around right now,
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: but this conversation,
• 5:02
  like it really gave me a deeper understanding of what populism
• 5:05
  means in practice.
• 5:07
  And particularly helpful for me was I got to use Zora Mamdani
• 5:10
  and New York City as
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: kind of the example of that in our conversation.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: We knew it would happen.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: You would eventually get to talk about Zoran constantly.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: Constantly.
• 5:19
  But it was also a great conversation about what Faz thinks that
• 5:23
  Graham's going to
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: need to do in this election cycle to actually win in November.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: And frankly,
• 5:29
  I think it was some of the most interesting analysis of how
• 5:34
  Graham can move forward
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: in this race.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and how he thinks he's going to win.
• 5:38
  But anyways,
• 5:38
  we cover a lot of ground with Faz,
• 5:40
  so we hope you enjoy it as much as we did.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: And as always, let us know what you think.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: And our standard disclaimer before we get going,
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: I work at Colby College and Allison is a faculty member there.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: But the views expressed here are entirely our own.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: And with that, here's our conversation with Faz Shakir.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Faz.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: We're so excited to have you here at Politics Between Us.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: Always good to be with you, Allison.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: All right, so let's jump in.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: You've spent over 20 years in politics.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: I want to know, what drew you to politics in the first place?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: The injustices in it.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Politics,
• 6:22
  for those people who join it wanting a great and amazing life
• 6:27
  and a utopia,
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: I understand.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's not what draws me into it.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: It is the dysfunction of
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: and the injustices that manifest from it.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was drawn into it from the Iraq War.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: I was opposed to it,
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: and I watched a nation move down what I thought was a disastrous path,
• 6:46
  and it mobilized me because how could so many people in elite
• 6:51
  leadership feel like
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: this is a great idea and not challenge or question it?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: as something that's disastrous for American interests.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then I stayed with it.
• 6:59
  And over time,
• 7:01
  my lens into more and more injustices that come out of the
• 7:04
  political system grew.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I have been mobilized ever since.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: So what I'm hearing you say,
• 7:11
  it was more of a lack of leadership in the political apparatus
• 7:15
  than maybe a certain
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: policy thing that you wanted to accomplish.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, in the chasm between elected leadership and people.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's always frustrated me and the thing that I have,
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: you and I worked together,
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: the ACLU,
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: and at that time,
• 7:32
  Just thinking about how people could be part of a mission has
• 7:36
  been part of a thing
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: that I've been after for my entire political life.
• 7:40
  And I see in so many facets of American life where the general
• 7:45
  views of people are
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: so not represented in politics.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what frustrates me the most.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously we can get into why and how that is,
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: but money plays obviously a fundamental and major role in that.
• 7:57
  And I mean,
• 7:58
  over the last 25 years since the Iraq war,
• 8:00
  it doesn't really seem like
• 8:02
  There hasn't been a lot in our system necessarily to make you
• 8:06
  believe that anything
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: is getting less unjust.
• 8:10
  So what keeps you believing that politics can be the way you
• 8:13
  change things?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: It has to be.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: fundamentally,
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: in addition to people power,
• 8:18
  one of my other creeds and something that really lives deep in
• 8:21
  me is a sense of
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: class consciousness.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: And when you think of the divide between those who have
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: really well-to-do,
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: nice lives,
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: and the vast,
• 8:30
  vast majority of Americans who struggle in the richest country
• 8:32
  in the face of human
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: history,
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: that there's something wrong when we aren't thinking about the whole,
• 8:37
  that a society requires that all of us are part of it and
• 8:41
  invested into it,
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: and that we all care about each other.
• 8:45
  And that sense that if we're going to have a fabric of a
• 8:49
  society in which we look
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: out for each other,
• 8:51
  You have to believe in government because government's
• 8:54
  fundamental responsibility
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: is that it looks out for those who don't have power.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's the nature of it,
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: that you need institutions to build power for a bunch of people who don't
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: ordinarily have it.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: this is why we have Social Security,
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Medicare,
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: why we have a military,
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: why we have public lands and public parks,
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_03: why we have a post office.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_03: What fundamentally are those services?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: Well, they're looking out for everybody.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's a for-all concept.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: So,
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: Faz,
• 9:20
  you have this really strong conviction and ideas about what
• 9:24
  government can do,
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: this class consciousness.
• 9:28
  Alison and I like to talk a lot about memory and memory as it
• 9:31
  relates to politics.
• 9:33
  Do you have a first political memory or origin story to where
• 9:37
  this kind of started to develop?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, nothing that strikes me.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: I will say that, you know, my parents immigrated to this country with
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: really nothing in their pockets.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: And at some point,
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: my dad decided he wanted to start dry cleaning franchises,
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: and he called it Mr.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Dry Clean.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so much of my life grew up living in Mr.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Dry Cleans across the state of Florida and some in Georgia.
• 10:04
  and just generally having a sense of that was my lens into how
• 10:08
  America functions
• 10:09
  and how both the opportunities to build a business and generate
• 10:15
  some degree of a
• 10:16
  nice life for yourself and obviously my parents' view was that
• 10:20
  my children should
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: have a better life than me.
• 10:22
  Increasingly that American dream is evaporating for so many but
• 10:26
  that was a sense of
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: hope of what I thought an America was that you could
• 10:31
  see all the wonders of many workers who lived within that dry
• 10:34
  cleaning plant,
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: the customers who would traffic through it,
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: a sense of community around it,
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: a small business that knew their community.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: And increasingly, I think that fabric of what
• 10:45
  What America was built around is decaying as we have more
• 10:50
  concentration of wealth
• 10:51
  and ownership in a sense that around those concentrations of
• 10:54
  wealth and ownership,
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: the people who are at the very top have more hubris,
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: ego,
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: selfishness,
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: in my view,
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: that tends to corrode what is the very nature of the society that I love,
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: An America that says we're all in it together and you work hard,
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: play by the rules,
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: you can succeed.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: I love hearing your explanation of why you believe in government.
• 11:18
  And I hear you talking about the power of government to
• 11:20
  actually improve lives for all people.
• 11:22
  And so I think that's a really interesting way to talk more
• 11:25
  broadly about your
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: critique of the Democratic Party right now.
• 11:27
  We're living in a time of huge tensions in the party about what
• 11:30
  direction they
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: should go,
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: outsider versus incumbent.
• 11:35
  Economic Populism Versus Move To The Middle So Talk To Us About
• 11:40
  Your Assessment Of
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Where The Democratic Has To Go To Rebuild Its Movement First You Have To
• 11:45
  Acknowledge And Understand The Government Is Dysfunctional So
• 11:47
  It Is Not To Say That
• 11:49
  Well Those Of Us Who Believe That Government Should Service
• 11:52
  Good Ends And We Want
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Good And Efficient And Effective Government
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: We also know that that's not what we got.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: We got one that is corrupted and influenced in all of the worst ways.
• 12:04
  And acknowledging that at the front end is to say,
• 12:06
  well,
• 12:06
  we need bold reforms of it.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it has historically been,
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: the Democratic Party that believes in the power of government.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: And if you believe in it,
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: you have to acknowledge that there's shortcomings in it,
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: that people need to be fired when they don't do a good job,
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: certain government agencies need to go away,
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: others need to be created.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: You look at Zoran Mamdani in many ways and obviously Bernie Sanders,
• 12:28
  a certain ideology that believes that if we believe that
• 12:31
  government can do things,
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: that we have to be bulldozers,
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_03: act with integrity and honor when you get into office,
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_03: and then do things.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: And you look at Mamdani,
• 12:40
  and he's been a source of inspiration for me and many others
• 12:42
  around the country.
• 12:43
  He gets in,
• 12:43
  he says,
• 12:44
  here's a snowstorm,
• 12:45
  a snow catastrophe that happens in New York.
• 12:47
  First instinct,
• 12:49
  why don't we pay people $20 an hour to go help shovel snow in
• 12:52
  this great city?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: And he does it.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: He executes it.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Within a short period of time,
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: people are being paid $20 an hour to shovel snow in New York City.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: and being paid by the city of New York to do it.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: What an amazing thing.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_03: They say you will be not only appreciated and given opportunities by this
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: administration,
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_03: but you're going to do things in service of others.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: And if you looked at some of the videos of those snow shovelers,
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: they would tell you things like,
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: One guy was so proud to say, Mom, I got a government job.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: Look at me.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_03: I'm doing it.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: And one guy who had worked in an Amazon warehouse who was snow shoveling,
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: he's like,
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: I realized that I go to work every day and I never talk to my coworkers.
• 13:29
  And here I was snow shoveling snow and I was talking to my
• 13:32
  fellow colleagues and it was so fun.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_03: I had a great time.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_03: And that sense of purpose,
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_03: mission associated with work,
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_03: that it means something,
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: gives you a sense of a purpose in life,
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_03: that you feel proud of it.
• 13:45
  It can be manifested by the government if you act with honor
• 13:49
  and integrity,
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: that you believe it's something great.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: I love to hear that.
• 13:52
  And I live in New York City and have really felt hope and
• 13:55
  inspiration around
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: Mamdani being so responsive to the needs of people in the city.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I think a lot of people,
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: especially a lot of people in my generation,
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: what I hear is a lot of nihilism around government.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: And it's hard to make you
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: believe in government if you haven't really seen it working.
• 14:14
  And so I think Mamdani has been very effective at showing us
• 14:17
  these small examples
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: of how government can be responsive,
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: but he's actually been elected.
• 14:21
  So how do you go about telling Democrats who haven't been
• 14:26
  elected and have to win
• 14:27
  these tough elections to make people believe in a government
• 14:31
  that they feel has
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: been dysfunctional for their whole life?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Luca, you're on the money with everything that you said.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: And if I were trying to reform the Democratic Party,
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: you have to now analyze where is the first order broken link in it.
• 14:47
  And I think one of the first is that the inputs of regular
• 14:51
  people into this party doesn't exist.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: So the doors are not open.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: It is a club.
• 14:57
  But politics fundamentally cannot operate functionally and well
• 15:01
  as a club because
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_03: politics has to service all people.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_03: And you need to get into a sense,
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: if you're a political party,
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: you want to hear from more people.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: And part of your job is to say, how do I hear from more people?
• 15:12
  How do I open the doors such that this club is much,
• 15:16
  much,
• 15:16
  much,
• 15:17
  much bigger?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're a Democrat, if you're somebody who believes –
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: The Democratic Party
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: For instance, Luca, right?
• 15:39
  It's not just that you mobilize 90,000 volunteers to help you
• 15:42
  win the election.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_03: He's saying also,
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_03: as I'm governing,
• 15:46
  I am thinking of those people as how they can be in service
• 15:49
  while I'm governing.
• 15:51
  Because his view and his vision is that people have to be
• 15:54
  associated with the
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_03: things that we are doing.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: So everything from like, oh, we're going to do World Cup public events.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: We're going to beautify the city.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_03: We're going to do a whole bunch of things.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_03: Rental ripoff hearings.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_03: The March Madness bracket.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's awesome.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_03: You're opening the doors and you're saying, I want to hear from
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: Do you preference growing your membership base?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: Do you get volunteers?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: Do you do public events in which regular people are coming in?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_03: And some of them would laugh at me, right?
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, why would I hold a Super Bowl party?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_03: That seems silly.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like,
• 16:40
  the reason you'd hold a Super Bowl party is because you care
• 16:44
  about engaging with
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: the community.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: And now,
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: Luca,
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: to the next point,
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_03: if you've got regular people associated with you,
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_03: giving you inputs,
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_03: it is more likely as you're governing,
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: you're going to be more situated in
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: doing things that are aligned with the interests of a lot of people.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: But right now,
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: if you operate with a club,
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: as I believe the Democratic Party is,
• 17:02
  and that club is heavily tilted towards the wealthy and the
• 17:05
  well-to-do and the
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_03: well-connected,
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: then it's any surprise that then when they govern,
• 17:09
  they tend to hear from the interests of those who are really in
• 17:13
  their club.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what's broken.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_03: You open the doors,
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_03: you let people in,
• 17:17
  and I think you start to get course correction where when
• 17:19
  you're governing,
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_03: I have to be responsive to all of these people that I've let in the door.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: So let's – first of all,
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to know you'd be very proud,
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Faz,
• 17:26
  that Luca's secret wish is to work for Mamdani's Department of
• 17:30
  Transportation.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: He thinks that that would be like – that's the way he's headed.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_03: And think about why that is.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_03: But like if you had Mayor Adams – I'd assume – I mean,
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: Luca,
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want to make judgments about you.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: But if you had Mayor Adams, you had Mayor Cuomo, you go back in time.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think –
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of young people were looking at,
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_03: hey,
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_03: I want to go serve in the New York City administration.
• 17:52
  It is something about Zoran and the way he's governing and the
• 17:54
  ethics and the
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: responsibility and the value he holds for society.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: We remember this,
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 17:59
  Alice and I are old enough to remember when the West Wing as a
• 18:02
  show was first
• 18:08
  people wanted to get involved in administration just out of
• 18:11
  that show because
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: there's a sense of honor.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like if I serve in government, it means something.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: And we have so lost that thread.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm so happy to hear that, Luca, because Zoran has created that.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: I grew up with Veep, which is like the other side of that coin.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_03: We mocked it, right?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's interesting, though.
• 18:28
  I will say the policy that made me want to get involved in New
• 18:32
  York City government was actually
• 18:34
  containerization of garbage under the Adams administration
• 18:37
  because I remember
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: walking outside and I was like,
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: my life is so much better from this one policy.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: I don't see rats anymore.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: And there's not trash thrown all over my street.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: It was amazing.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I want to work for the Department of Sanitation.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's great.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_03: That's great.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_03: I like that.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_03: I also think that if you see government functioning,
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_03: and that there are creative and new ways to do it.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_03: I think in New York City,
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_03: you can correct me if I'm wrong,
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like because of the inputs into him,
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: I saw this deed theft thing that he's working on in New York.
• 19:12
  Those are the kinds of things that I think only happen when you
• 19:17
  have a desire to
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_03: wake up every day and govern
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: with action, with kinetic action.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: He wakes up every day, Zoran, wants to do 18 things in one day.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: And we're so used to the lethargy of government.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_03: We have seen it forever that people get into office and say,
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: You know,
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: almost like wake up at 10,
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_03: roll in late,
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_03: like don't know what to do here,
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: look around the office and say,
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_03: hey,
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: what is it that you,
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_03: small ball thing that we want to get done today?
• 19:47
  That is not,
• 19:48
  in my humble opinion,
• 19:50
  you are not cut out to be in public service.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_03: It should feel like you are a ball on fire every day.
• 19:54
  You want to get in and you want to go do things because what an
• 19:57
  awesome authority
• 19:58
  and responsibility that has been handed to you to think about
• 20:01
  the lives of others.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 20:03
  so let's talk a little bit about that because I – Luke and I
• 20:06
  talked a little bit
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: about Graham Plattner's race here in Maine and his idea – I wrote it as –
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Traditional Democrats, which I would consider myself one, right?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a law person, law and policy.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: I like structure.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: I like systems.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: I like top-down.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm comfortable with that.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: And that's very much with Janet Mills, right?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: She's an executive.
• 20:25
  And Graham really changed everything in building a horizontal
• 20:29
  model of power,
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: really,
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: this idea that he's going to build power in
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: across as opposed to up and down.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that one,
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: right,
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: with Janet Mills stepped out of the race,
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: he's now the presumed,
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: or he will most likely go against Susan Collins.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: Here's my question, though, Faz.
• 20:45
  The challenge with bringing everybody into communication and
• 20:49
  collaboration and
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: working together is people don't agree on most things.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so that feels like one of the tensions in the Democratic Party.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 20:57
  you say government doesn't work because special interests get
• 21:02
  in and people don't
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: get things done.
• 21:03
  But some of those special interests are like the ACLU or other
• 21:06
  nonprofits.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: And we actually...
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: We can't agree on enough stuff that hits close to our heart,
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: not just our pocketbooks,
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: but our values.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: And we really struggle to come together.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: So how do we build this engaged,
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: sort of,
• 21:20
  I would think of it like a braided sense of community and power
• 21:23
  in government?
• 21:25
  How do we get past what are going to be these really big
• 21:27
  tensions around other policies?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 21:30
  one of the reasons why I believe Graham Plattner will defeat
• 21:33
  Susan Collins and win
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: this election is
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: What he understands is the same thing I think Bernie Sanders understands,
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: I believe,
• 21:41
  is if you go to the American public and you talk about the
• 21:45
  economic injustices that
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: exist within it as the first order priority,
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: the main thing on your mind.
• 21:53
  We are actually talking about a society that has fundamental
• 21:56
  agreement,
• 21:57
  not disagreement.
• 21:59
  In an age of polarization,
• 22:00
  I think that polarization tends to occur on a lot of
• 22:03
  partisanship.
• 22:04
  So the more I talk to you about Democrat versus Republican,
• 22:07
  you're going to feel polarized.
• 22:09
  And I think a lot of racial social justice issues that you and
• 22:12
  I have worked on,
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Allison,
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: tend to get coded partisanly and tend to polarize people.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: But when you think about economic justice,
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: and if I go before a town hall,
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: and Graham has done hundreds of these,
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: and if I go and talk about the need for raising the minimum wage,
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: to get money out of politics,
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: to expand paid leave in America,
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: to expand healthcare in America,
• 22:38
  America to ensure that kids don't go deeply into debt from
• 22:42
  getting an education.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: If I want to talk about regulating AI for Americans safely,
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: securely,
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care if you put a full MAGA audience in front of me,
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: you're going to have support.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: on those sets of issues.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: And in my view,
• 23:00
  this is where a Democratic Party has become a little bit
• 23:02
  unmoored from what its
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_03: grounding is.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_03: Because that is what had long been the lineage and the proud lineage of a
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_03: Democratic Party is associated from FDR,
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: Truman,
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: Kennedy,
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: Johnson.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: So many understood that you will fight for the underdog.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: You fight for working class people.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_03: That is where the historic lineage of the Democratic Party comes from.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: And we get penalized more
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: when we aren't associated with the plight of working class people.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_03: Because they say, who else do I got?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: If it ain't you, who else?
• 23:35
  And they get upset when they see establishment actors who don't
• 23:40
  even know and
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_03: understand or care about their lives.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: So maybe my subtle dispute with you on this one,
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: Allison,
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: is I don't know that we're as polarized as people lead us to believe,
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: in part because we don't tend to have economic
• 23:54
  justice conversations to the extent that the American public is
• 23:58
  desiring and
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: wanting them from us.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: And if we do start with that,
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: if we spend a fair amount of time discussing it,
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: then I tend to think that you can talk about a
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: where people,
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: as you well know,
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: have ideologies and views all over the map on these kinds of things.
• 24:16
  They will appreciate and trust that you have your own views and
• 24:20
  that they might
• 24:20
  listen to you and you might be able to persuade them as long as
• 24:23
  you started with
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: the thing that they probably agree with you on.
• 24:27
  And too often I think some people are starting from the places
• 24:29
  where we might
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_03: disagree with them on.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: We almost started the town hall.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, let me polarize this place.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_03: Donald Trump is a really anti-democratic actor.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: He's a fascist.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: He's an authoritarian.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: Well, okay.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think is going to happen here?
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: You're just talking to the people who now only believe you.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: And then the rest said, I'm tuning you out.
• 24:47
  So I want to ask one follow-up question then I want Luca you to
• 24:49
  take us to talk
• 24:50
  about Graham and how he runs for Collins' seat but just because
• 24:54
  I've been dying to
• 24:55
  ask you this fast because I so resonate with your conversation
• 25:00
  about economic
• 25:01
  issues being first priority that we aren't talking about them
• 25:06
  and I worry that
• 25:09
  historically when we have had massive economic justice reforms
• 25:13
  maybe you wouldn't
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: have called them injustice but you think about
• 25:16
  The New Deal,
• 25:17
  think about Social Security,
• 25:19
  or then you even think about the GI Bill,
• 25:23
  right?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: These are bills,
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: these are laws that excluded like in terms,
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: when you look back at Social Security,
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Who wasn't included?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: It was agricultural workers and domestic workers, right?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Which was predominantly African American people.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: You look at the GI Bill,
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: the VA had redlining rules that kept African Americans from buying homes.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: So consistently our country,
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: when making arguments that we're going to do all boats rise,
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: some boats still don't rise.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me how we avoid that trap in this time.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say under Clinton, Obama, Biden continued to rectify
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: those very injustices that you mentioned.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: So while it was true that at the creation of those programs,
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: there were certain injustices manifested on identity bases,
• 26:11
  it was also true that when democratic administrations led
• 26:16
  government authorities
• 26:17
  did the most to rectify those injustices and were aware and
• 26:22
  cognizant and conscious
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_03: of it,
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_03: and therefore was most important that we held power
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: to do those kinds of things.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_03: Because as we have had Republicans in these kinds of positions,
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_03: it has also been the most retrenchment.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_03: So my point to you,
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_03: Alison,
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: is that the strength of the Democratic Party,
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_03: yes,
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_03: it had some flaws in the creations of Social Security,
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: Medicare,
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: fundamentally.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_03: Those were the things that brought Democrats into power.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_03: And when we were brought into power because of those things,
• 26:53
  and successive Democratic presidents had opportunities to
• 26:57
  improve upon those
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: programs,
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: we were the ones doing it.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_03: And we lose our way when we start to almost attack our own selves.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, we love to do that.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, you want us in power.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: Again,
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: we're not magic wands and everyone's not perfect,
• 27:14
  but it has historically been the role and the path of
• 27:17
  Democratic Party to think
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: about improving the economic lives of working class people.
• 27:23
  And when you put us in the office,
• 27:24
  we do the most to function in that way.
• 27:26
  And I think I want everyone to own that,
• 27:28
  that as you go and campaign in America—
• 27:32
  Know That That's What People Assume Of Us Expect Of Us You
• 27:35
  Gotta Meet That Bar Okay
• 27:38
  Well Speaking Of Attacking Our Own Maine Just Wrapped Up Our
• 27:43
  You Resolved It
• 27:44
  Congratulations Maine Yeah Exactly We Wrapped It Up Graham
• 27:48
  Plattner Is The
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: Presumptive Nominee For The Democratic Nomination For The U.S.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: Senate Here In Maine He'll Face Susan Collins In November
• 27:59
  So Collins is one of the few Republican senators who represents
• 28:02
  a state that has
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: consistently voted for a Democratic presidential candidate in the last
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: five elections or whatever.
• 28:11
  So for a lot of people,
• 28:12
  the obvious lesson of her success is to present yourself as a
• 28:15
  moderate.
• 28:16
  Maine has this long history of rewarding centrist politicians
• 28:20
  like we have Senator
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: Bill Cohen,
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: Senator Olympia Snowe,
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: Senator Angus King,
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: and Representative Jared Golden.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm curious for you,
• 28:31
  I'm guessing your lesson isn't to take away from Maine's
• 28:36
  political history to
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: moderate.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: In my view,
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: this is why Graham,
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: will do great as a general election candidate against Susan Collins.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of reasons to have concerns about Susan Collins,
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: and obviously she's gone,
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: emboldening and empowering Trump at this moment,
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: when I think most people want to check on him,
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: and she doesn't serve as that.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I think we generally had Democratic campaigns to think about,
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: she's not been a great voice on women's rights.
• 29:05
  She once said certain things about being,
• 29:07
  you know,
• 29:07
  defenders of women's rights.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously we've got the full retrenchment such that,
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Roe v.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Wade has now been overturned as the law of the land in America.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: And she's in large part responsible for that.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: But what Graham will also do.
• 29:21
  is bring to bear the issues that I think too often have not
• 29:24
  been discussed about
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: Susan Collins,
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: that her major funders are private equity.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: And what does a private equity want in America?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: The shutting down of hospitals and mills all across your great state.
• 29:36
  the privatization of your grids in ways that hurt working class
• 29:41
  electricity rates.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think in general,
• 29:44
  the Sackler money that has come into her and how it has
• 29:47
  manifested opioid abuse,
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: not only in Maine,
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: but across this country.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: purely for profiteering.
• 29:52
  These kinds of class-based conversations and the role of money
• 29:55
  in politics is a big
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: one for Susan Collins.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the worst donors,
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: in my mind,
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: have tried to capture her with views that I think are important
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: to most Mainers.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I think Graham is fully aware of that.
• 30:10
  And I think we're going to have much more of a conversation
• 30:13
  from a guy who's saying
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: no to corporate super PACs,
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: saying no to APAC money,
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: standing up for working class dollars.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: you look at the money that come into Plattner's campaign,
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: it is working class people,
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: small dollar contributions that are holding him up.
• 30:26
  And as you know,
• 30:26
  he's been doing hundreds and hundreds of town halls across the
• 30:28
  state.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: He's not a perfect human being.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: He's had his flaws.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: And as you know,
• 30:32
  one of the things I'm most proud of is he goes and stands right
• 30:34
  before everybody
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: and says,
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: hey,
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Ask me what's on your mind.
• 30:37
  Tell me the issues,
• 30:38
  and I'll answer them as candidly and forthrightly as I can.
• 30:42
  That kind of approach does Maine proud,
• 30:44
  and I think also serves as a foil against Susan Collins.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_03: When's the last time she held the town hall, by the way?
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_03: Does she hold town halls, Allison?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_03: Where's our Susan Collins?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think in the 90s.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think they were saying in the 90s.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 1990s.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 30:56
  and there's this sense from people as they serve in office for
• 30:59
  long periods of
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_03: times,
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_03: they start to hide from folks.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have a special golden ticket to meet with Susan Collins?
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_03: She's meeting with 15 people behind closed doors.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have one of those golden tickets to be able to talk to her?
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_03: If not, does she open herself up to doing town hall events?
• 31:15
  Are you willing to listen to the views of your constituents and
• 31:19
  to heed at this
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: point in time being willing to take on big tech?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: Those are not things that I think
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: Susan Collins is going to be comfortable doing,
• 31:28
  nor is she willing to listen to those of the citizens within
• 31:31
  the state who have
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: those views.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: Graham will be, and that's why he'll do well.
• 31:36
  I saw something you wrote about Bernie that what was special
• 31:40
  about Bernie was that
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: he was like a tuning fork for America.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: He understood the vibration.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think Graham is that caliber?
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think he has a similar quality?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so it's the populists, right?
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_03: We know populists on the right,
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_03: Trump being a major one,
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: and there are good and healthy populism of the left,
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: and I think Bernie encapsulates it.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: In its truest and best form, a populist...
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: takes their power from people.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_03: That's by definition, right?
• 32:06
  That their source of inputs,
• 32:08
  the thing that they measure is how are people doing.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_03: For Trump, for himself, right?
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_03: He said,
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_03: if my MAGA coalition starts to break on me,
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_03: it starts to feel like a real fundamental problem for him,
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_03: Because he knows that his coalition of people matters to him.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_03: This is the people power that we were talking about.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: We want coalitions of actual people and inputs into our politicians.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_03: Bernie has always been this way.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_03: He's a movement builder.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: He cares about what do regular people think.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: Graham, obviously, has been the same way.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: That's why he's interested in doing town halls.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_03: He's not doing them because I have to.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: He's curious.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_03: He's interested.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_03: I want to get out there.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_03: Zora Mamdani does all these town halls.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: AOC loves to get out into the world and talk to people.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: I hope and believe that Graham,
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: as a senator,
• 32:56
  will continue to operate that way and make himself readily
• 32:59
  available and accessible
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: to the people of Maine.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: Another question on that point.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of coalition does Graham need to put together to beat Collins?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Collins,
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: when Sarah Gideon,
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: who ran against her in 2020,
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: was up in the polls up until a couple weeks before.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: Lost by nine.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: Lost by nine.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: It was a very interesting race here.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: And there's lots of reasons for that.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: But one of what I want to focus on is we have,
• 33:18
  there is a very conservative rural vote in the second CD that
• 33:22
  came out for her.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's also your independence.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: So what kind of coalition does Graham need to bring?
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: Or like, how does he speak to people and bring them in?
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because he's not going to win with just Democrats.
• 33:35
  He's working already from a great place in the sense that
• 33:39
  people rightly understand
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: him to be an insurgent in politics.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: He is not captured by this system.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: He has not come from this system.
• 33:45
  And that serves him greatly and I think puts him in a positive
• 33:49
  place against Susan Collins.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously her strength is the sense of,
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: I've been in,
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Senate for bazillions of years and I know how this body works.
• 33:58
  And I tend to think right now that,
• 34:00
  you know,
• 34:01
  that that's not what people are looking for.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: So in my mind,
• 34:04
  as long as he can continue to talk about this fundamental
• 34:10
  things that I think most
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: people,
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: if you go out to town hall and you say,
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: what's going to come up?
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think money in politics, really fundamental problem.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: People know the corruption that's going on.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: Here's a guy who's grassroots funded, saying no to corporate PAC money.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's going to service him well.
• 34:27
  Talking about his desire to challenge corruption goes across
• 34:33
  ideological spans.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of anger, even on the right, about what they're seeing.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: Epstein,
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: and we don't have to get into all of it,
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: but who is capturing our politics and skewing it greatly?
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Then I think you think about big tech,
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: AI,
• 34:49
  and you think about the fact that many working class people are
• 34:52
  living with fears
• 34:54
  that our current politics is captured by well-to-do actors on
• 34:58
  oligarchy that Graham
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: references often,
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: that doesn't have their best interests in mind.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_03: I think it services him well that says,
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_03: I want to get into the Senate as a working class person and
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_03: challenge the current orthodoxy of that place.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_03: His own views towards Chuck Schumer, by the way.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: He said he has grave concerns about his leadership.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: and I know Graham a bit,
• 35:23
  I think he challenged Chuck Schumer in a healthy and positive
• 35:27
  way that I suspect a
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_03: lot of Mainers would love to see happen as well.
• 35:31
  So I think there's worlds in which the way he's already talked
• 35:35
  in the primary
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_03: services and well to continue on that path in the general.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_03: What is going to happen,
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: of course,
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: is Susan Collins and the right,
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_03: who have long criticized the wokeism of the left,
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_03: the identity culture warriors of the left,
• 35:51
  will then flip this playbook and then become the culture
• 35:55
  cancelers in this
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_03: campaign.
• 35:58
  The only path that Susan Collins,
• 36:00
  in my view,
• 36:01
  has is that she and her right-wing MAGA donors are
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_03: and super PACs will say we have to be cancel culture.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_03: Graham wrote this mean thing many years ago on Reddit.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Graham said these things about,
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 36:17
  that obviously has long said that he was a different person and
• 36:20
  has changed as a
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: result of saying these things in the past,
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: but they will try to bring that back.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_03: I want everyone to be aware.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_03: I tend to think that Graham,
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_03: if he doesn't get sucked into these identity politics,
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_03: you turn the playbook.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_03: Remember, these were the right-wing actors.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, free speech.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_03: We can't be canceling everybody for just something, something.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_03: Which, great.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_03: We'll hold you to it.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_03: I think, let's go.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_03: Graham is owned.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_03: He's a different person now than he was then.
• 36:48
  and he's learned and he's willing to be candid and honest and
• 36:52
  forthright with people.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: But we're going to get a wokeism of the right attacks in this campaign.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it plays well with people.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think people are done with that.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: Fazz,
• 37:01
  do you think Graham is a unique political talent or does he
• 37:06
  just have the right
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: message,
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: the right profile at the right time?
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: He's certainly talented, Luca.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: obviously,
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: it's wild that,
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: I felt this way about Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez,
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: and I do feel the same way about Graham,
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: is that,
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: man,
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: it's hard to believe that these people have not been in politics,
• 37:22
  because they're just so charismatic and have the ability to
• 37:25
  just connect with
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: people.
• 37:27
  But it also goes,
• 37:28
  I mean,
• 37:28
  Senator Sanders has said this forever,
• 37:30
  is that,
• 37:31
  you know,
• 37:32
  we discount
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_03: for a lot of people, their abilities to work in politics.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_03: Because he'd always say,
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_03: if you think that you're not smart enough to be in politics,
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_03: let me assure you,
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_03: you are.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, I know a lot of people in politics.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_03: It is my life.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_03: I see them every day.
• 37:50
  You are just as smart,
• 37:53
  if not smarter,
• 37:54
  than many of those people,
• 37:56
  and you should run for office.
• 37:58
  And knowing and understanding that the reasons and why you
• 38:02
  would run for office is
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_03: fundamentally why Graham is running,
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_03: is that we have most disfavored
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_03: the sense that your advantage,
• 38:13
  your reason for running is merely that you're a working class
• 38:15
  person who knows what
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: a working class life is like.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_03: We have gotten to a place in politics,
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: both on the right and left,
• 38:20
  those candidates who are often recruited and run for office are
• 38:23
  those with donor
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_03: networks who have
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_03: I know all the lawyers in town,
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_03: I know all the bankers in town,
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_03: I know all the car sales dealers in town,
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: and they're going to fund my campaign.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_03: I've serviced in these five roles before.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_03: It's really just a network, and that network is going to propel me.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_03: Well,
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_03: that network is disassociated,
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_03: too,
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_03: from a lot of people,
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_03: so we shouldn't be surprised when voter turnout is low.
• 38:47
  That is why I tend to believe that Graham's strength against
• 38:50
  Collins is that he
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_03: will drive up voter turnout.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: People will be enthusiastic about, oh, you've given me an option.
• 38:56
  You've given me a voice that's different and unique and
• 38:59
  compelling to kind of
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: inspire me to go vote.
• 39:03
  But we have become accustomed,
• 39:04
  sadly,
• 39:05
  to people who run for office who have no...
• 39:09
  um sense of how working class lives are going and no curiosity
• 39:13
  about it to the
• 39:14
  point that I was raising of just going and talking to regular
• 39:17
  people saying what's
• 39:17
  on your mind tell me about the teachers tell me about nurses
• 39:20
  tell me about you know
• 39:21
  what's going on with the first responders in our community
• 39:24
  what's going on in the
• 39:25
  dysfunction of our healthcare system let's dive into it I want
• 39:28
  to know I want to
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: care about it and um
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_03: the more working class oriented you are.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_03: In this cycle, we've had more than we've had.
• 39:35
  We've got people who have been firemen,
• 39:37
  smoke jumpers,
• 39:38
  nurses,
• 39:40
  waitresses in Western Wisconsin.
• 39:41
  There's so many people that I see running this cycle that I'm
• 39:44
  enthusiastic about
• 39:45
  because their qualification for running for office was I just
• 39:49
  literally held the
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_03: job of a working class life and I want to bring that into politics.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: Kudos.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's great.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
• 39:57
  but all of those jobs also are kind of service-oriented jobs in
• 40:00
  themselves,
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_02: which is something that Allison and I think about.
• 40:03
  We were thinking we want to start a political search firm
• 40:06
  called Harbor Master
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_02: Politics,
• 40:08
  where you just go out and you search for the equivalent of a
• 40:10
  harbor master in every
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: community,
• 40:12
  because there's something about that kind of service-oriented
• 40:16
  job in a really local
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: community that seems to serve candidates well in politics.
• 40:21
  Yeah,
• 40:22
  I think that's why teachers,
• 40:23
  I think,
• 40:23
  make for great candidates as well.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: To your point,
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: it's a sense of,
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: I was drawn to this because I want to be in service of others,
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: even in my profession.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it lends itself to politics quite well.
• 40:37
  Is it also possible that what we're seeing in addition to a
• 40:40
  change in the kind of
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: candidates and the issues they're focusing on,
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: is that we're just seeing a generational change,
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: just straight up,
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: that we're seeing a shift from boomers in charge and saying,
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: you just simply don't understand the world that we live in.
• 40:52
  In part,
• 40:53
  I'm not so into the generational argument for this reason,
• 40:57
  Alison.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, first of all, we're talking at a time when
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: Probably,
• 41:00
  I think Bernie Sanders is the most popular elected official in
• 41:03
  all of America,
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: 84-year-olds.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: Not that he's going to run for president,
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: but when you think of this popularity,
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: but then you look at the unpopularity,
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: that Biden left office with,
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: that Trump left office with.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: People tend to, I think, over-associate, well,
• 41:18
  What I tend to view as the big problem in government is that
• 41:21
  you've become
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_03: disassociated from regular people.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_03: The more you've served in government,
• 41:27
  people tend to believe that you don't know what the lives are
• 41:31
  like of all these
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: other people.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: And to your point, it's associated with age.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_03: So if you are 70, 80 years old and you've become comfortable
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_03: in your own life,
• 41:41
  then maybe you just aren't interested and therefore a
• 41:43
  generational change of people
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_03: who just come from a different stroke is needed.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_03: But we're also,
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_03: that's obfuscating what is the main thing,
• 41:49
  is that you could serve in government as Bernie has for many
• 41:52
  years and be 84 years
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_03: old and people feeling very favorable and liking him because they think
• 41:58
  You Haven't Lost Your Way You Seem To Know What Our Lives Are
• 42:02
  Like You Seem To Care
• 42:03
  About What A Functioning Good Politics And Government Should
• 42:06
  Look Like Care About
• 42:07
  Integrity And Honesty In Politics But He's A Bit Of An Outlier
• 42:11
  Now Outcast Within
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_03: Modernist Political Establishment
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_03: So when we tend to look at it and say,
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_03: well,
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_03: it's a generational thing,
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_03: I tend to think we're over-reading it.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's not just 70,
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_03: 80-year-olds,
• 42:20
  it's that they have become captured by a system that people are
• 42:24
  very frustrated and
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_03: angry about and are prepared to throw that system out and say,
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_03: show me anybody and everybody else.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_03: And even if Graham were 70 years old,
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_03: I think he'd still be a very functioning,
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_03: really well-to-do candidate.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_03: He'd be great.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_03: It helps him more that he's not.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_03: But I tend to think it's his views,
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_03: his ideology,
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_03: his freshness of perspective,
• 42:44
  his willingness to take on the economic and political
• 42:47
  establishment that services
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_03: him the most and the best.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: you've mentioned that Bernie is super intentional about,
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: he makes sure he flies coach.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: He doesn't go, you know, he doesn't associate with lots of wealth.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he really is intentional.
• 43:00
  But how do,
• 43:01
  I mean,
• 43:02
  what,
• 43:02
  how,
• 43:03
  let's say Graham actually unseats Susan Collins.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's very hard to be surrounded by power.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's very hard.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody wants to give you everything.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone is staffing you.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: You've got a million people saying, let me make life easier for you.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: Let me do this for you.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: How do politicians stay connected to
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: to that,
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: or as you said,
• 43:20
  how do they stay interested or curious about the people in the
• 43:24
  world that they're
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: serving?
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: It is hard, no doubt.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: They were right on the money.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: There's a woman who was an auto mechanic in western Washington state.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: Her name is Congresswoman Marie Glushin Camp Perez.
• 43:37
  And she came into Congress and we had a conversation with her,
• 43:41
  you know,
• 43:41
  maybe a few months ago.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: And she said everything that you said,
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: Allison,
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: that as I've gotten into politics,
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: I asked her,
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_03: what are you observing about as you've entered into politics coming from,
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_03: a very different lifestyle?
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_03: What's it like?
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_03: And she said, you know, things are made easy for me.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_03: that she mentioned to me, I lost my driver's license.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_03: And some staff, they just went and got it.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I got my driver's license replaced within an hour.
• 44:06
  And she's like,
• 44:06
  if I was a working class person,
• 44:08
  I lost my driver's license.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_03: This would derail me for a week.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_03: It would be a real pain in the butt.
• 44:14
  But my life has been conditioned to be much easier because I
• 44:17
  got all this staff and
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_03: people looking out for me and a whole ecosystem.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_03: And it can easily start to
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_03: If you aren't conscious and aware of it and thinking about it,
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_03: it can disassociate you from the lives of others.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_03: So you have to fight against that grain.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_03: You have to have such hyperconsciousness.
• 44:33
  And this is why I was referencing before that the inputs into
• 44:36
  you need to remain open.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_03: The gates need to remain open such that you are doing town halls,
• 44:42
  you are allowing regular people to interact with you because
• 44:45
  they'll course correct
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_03: you,
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_03: They'll let you know
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_03: But my point to you is that a politician has to actively seek it.
• 44:52
  They have to kind of fight against the grain and retain that
• 44:54
  consciousness as you
• 44:55
  ascend into public office that I am here on behalf of people
• 44:59
  and I want to know
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: what the people think.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 45:01
  that's why I think it was a smart move that Zora Mondani
• 45:05
  decided not to go to the
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: Met Gala this year.
• 45:08
  You have to actively choose to make that disassociation from
• 45:12
  some of these.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and the flip is also true, like I said.
• 45:15
  It's also true for those of us on the ideological score of
• 45:18
  wanting to challenge
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: wealth and income inequality,
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: as he's going to do,
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: is that you also say,
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: hey,
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: if my constituent is J.P.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: Morgan,
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: I am still wanting to know what Jamie Dimon thinks and is aware,
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: but I also have some demands and asks of him to say,
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_03: hey,
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_03: if you want to live in this city,
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_03: there's a certain taxation conversation we're going to have,
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_03: and you on behalf of people are going to say,
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_03: hey,
• 45:46
  it's not that you're a public enemy and therefore I'm never
• 45:49
  going to talk to you.
• 45:50
  No,
• 45:50
  I want to talk to you with some terms and conditions of what
• 45:53
  the people want to
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_03: and engage in that dialogue.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_03: So when you ascend into public office,
• 45:59
  I think it is important that your dialogue continues with
• 46:03
  anybody and everybody,
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_03: but just that it doesn't become captured by the well-to-do.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_03: It is often the case,
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_03: if those of us who worked in politics,
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_03: Alison,
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_03: you could attest to this,
• 46:13
  is that you get to a place where those who know your cell phone
• 46:19
  or know your email
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_03: or know how to reach you tend to be those...
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_03: who are wealthy and well-connected.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_03: So you can almost in your own little bubble find that,
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_03: oh my God,
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_03: the board member,
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_03: da-da-da-da-da,
• 46:33
  like they're reaching out to me and they know how to kind of
• 46:35
  tell you that you're
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_03: wrong or you should do X,
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_03: Y,
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_03: and Z.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_03: So you have to fight against that grain and say, okay, yes, I want
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_03: I want this input,
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_03: but I also need other inputs who don't know my email,
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_03: don't know my cell phone.
• 46:46
  I also want to make sure that regular people are in my ear to
• 46:49
  counterbalance and to
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_03: give me a sense of how is this program doing?
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_03: How are people feeling about the issues out there?
• 46:55
  And I want that as a kind of a desire of a lot of public
• 46:59
  officials to say,
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_03: I want input from a lot of folks,
• 47:01
  but I also am aware of the class consciousness of who has the
• 47:05
  ability to reach me
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_03: more easily.
• 47:07
  Well I just I want to work something through something here
• 47:10
  quickly because I think
• 47:11
  what I feel sometimes with younger younger voters myself is
• 47:15
  that we have this we
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: want to quickly
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_02: Push,
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: like if we saw Jamie Dimon meeting with Zora Mamdani,
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_02: it would be like an immediate wrong.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: We would be quick to make judgments about that meeting.
• 47:28
  But I think Mamdani's ability to show in other ways that he
• 47:32
  hasn't been captured by
• 47:34
  those forces is what like allows him to take in those inputs at
• 47:37
  the same time.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: When you're in governing, Luca, to that point, it matters what you do.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: What are your actions?
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: So
• 47:45
  You should not be upset that Zoran meeting with Diamond or
• 47:48
  Steven Schwartzman or whoever.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: But you can imagine the headlines or the tweets.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for sure.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_03: But my message to people is to remember it matters what he's doing.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_03: What are the actions?
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm doing the second homes tax in New York
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_03: That matters 10 times more than whether he had a meeting.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_03: His job is as a government official to talk to people,
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_03: to get their inputs,
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_03: and to persuade them.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_03: And if he's going to get some of these things done, he has to meet with
• 48:31
  The Power Brokers,
• 48:32
  as it were,
• 48:32
  and say,
• 48:33
  here's why I'm doing what I'm doing.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_03: You give me your input, I'll give you my input, and then we go forward.
• 48:38
  And I want those,
• 48:40
  particularly in the progressive world,
• 48:41
  as you ascend into roles of government.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_03: It's one thing, you can campaign about your values.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_03: You have the authority to govern over all people.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_03: Own the seriousness of purpose of that.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_03: Listen and be curious and seek knowledge from those who have it.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the establishment is the establishment for a reason, Luca.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_03: Establishment means they have had established power,
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_03: established experience,
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_03: established knowledge.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_03: There is something to be gleaned from that, right?
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_03: There is to say, hey, how has this happened before?
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_03: How and why does this work?
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_03: Just so I understand it and not being unmoored by my values,
• 49:16
  I want to marry the ability of doing something with where I
• 49:20
  think we can go.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_03: So here's where I think we can go,
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_03: but I need to learn from those of you who've operated in the system.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_03: I think Zoran is doing that straddle very well right now.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 49:31
  I love that as a place to end because I feel like Luca and I in
• 49:35
  many ways started
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_01: this conversation because we feel like
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: We have learned so much from each other.
• 49:40
  I often am able to share with Luca what it is like to have to
• 49:44
  make the actual
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: decisions,
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: what it's like to actually have to balance the different stakeholders.
• 49:48
  And Luca can often push me in ways I wouldn't see by saying how
• 49:52
  set I am in my ways.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not listening to enough voices.
• 49:54
  So I feel like this is a really helpful framework for us to
• 49:59
  think about what it
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: looks like for any politician to lead,
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: but also for as we look at the
• 50:04
  The Race That Graham Is About To Take On With Susan Collins So
• 50:07
  I Want To Thank You
• 50:08
  So Much For Being Part Of This Conversation Thank You For
• 50:11
  Having Me And I Want Can
• 50:12
  I Ask A Bonus Question Before You Have To Go Go For It Okay
• 50:16
  Here's The Last One So
• 50:17
  My Mom Used To Always Tell Me That You Can Tell A Lot About A
• 50:20
  Person Based On What
• 50:22
  Position They Play In Sports So I Know That You Love Baseball
• 50:26
  And I Know That You
• 50:26
  Were A Very Successful Second Baseman And Apparently According
• 50:30
  To The Internet
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: Second Baseman
• 50:34
  psychological profile is that you are someone who can see the
• 50:37
  whole field.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: You're not a grandstander,
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: but you're always watching everything that's happening and you're helping
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: orchestrate the game itself,
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: Quietly, very stable.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not going to ask you to comment on if that's true.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: No, well, first of all, I will say thank you.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's very kind.
• 50:52
  But the person who had the most influence in my life was
• 50:55
  actually the coach.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: And his name was Tom Dooley.
• 50:59
  and his job in life was to take a bunch of average players and
• 51:04
  improve them.
• 51:06
  But he viewed his life in the way he coached as different than
• 51:09
  just us being good ballplayers.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_03: He said, I want good human beings.
• 51:13
  And he really taught us,
• 51:15
  as a team,
• 51:16
  we are only as strong as our weakest link.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like a fence, he would say.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_03: The fence is only as strong as its weakest link.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_03: We look out for each other and
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_03: We have this guy who's our bullpen catcher.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think he only played one game all year.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: He only had like maybe four or five at-bats the whole year.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: He's one of my best friends.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: Trey High was his name.
• 51:32
  And it was fundamentally important to Coach Dooley that we all
• 51:36
  were part of a team
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_03: that respected Trey as much as the superstar on the team.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_03: who was actually a starting catcher.
• 51:43
  And that ethic of just the team is only as strong as its
• 51:47
  weakest link is what I
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_03: want for America.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_03: That we care as much,
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_03: not just about the superstars of Elon Musk,
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_03: but all of the people who toil as policemen,
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_03: as janitors,
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_03: as post office employees,
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_03: who care about the service of others.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_03: That is our society.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_03: And to your point of baseball, that is what I bring.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_03: It is a team sport.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_03: We're only as good as our weakest links, right?
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_03: Only as strong as our weakest links.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_03: And we have to improve upon
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: the team ethic in this society in America,
• 52:14
  if we're going to have the country become the more perfect
• 52:17
  union that we deserve.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: Spoken by a true political athlete.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's beautiful.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: I won't ask you what Bernie Sanders position he would play.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, he's a basketball guy.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: So he'd be somewhere as a point guard or something.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, he's a point guard.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: Total point guard.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:36
  Let's get out of this conversation before I have to show any
• 52:39
  sports knowledge.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well Faz, thank you so much.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: It was great to have you.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for the time.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: We really appreciate it.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Faz.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to HBait.
• 53:01
  This is the part of our episode where typically I would bring
• 53:05
  Alison something from
• 53:06
  the internet to see how she responds to it and then kind of
• 53:10
  unpack it together.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_02: But today,
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_02: Alison,
• 53:13
  I sent her a little link and I gave her a couple ideas for
• 53:16
  HBait and she said,
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_02: no,
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_02: no,
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_02: no,
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_02: no.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_02: She wants to do HBait and bring me something today.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_02: So Allison, I think you have something in store for me.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: I do.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: So here's what I'm bringing to you today.
• 53:28
  I'm going to play for you part of an interview from the New
• 53:31
  York Times and it's
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: titled,
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: Why Young Men Want to Be with Older Women.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_01: So here, here it is.
• 53:38
  The oldest age gap that I had was eight years and she was 35
• 53:43
  and I was 27 years old.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm 34.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: The oldest I've been on a date with, I want to say is like close to 50.
• 53:52
  I am 28 years old and my ex-girlfriend was 42 and had two kids
• 53:57
  that were the same
• 53:58
  age as my siblings More young men are seeking to date older
• 54:01
  women than ever before
• 54:03
  I was really attracted to the level of emotional maturity that
• 54:07
  they could give me
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: Just the openness for a relationship,
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_02: a real relationship,
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_02: exclusivity,
• 54:13
  something longer lasting They tend to be more in their careers
• 54:17
  and they tend to be
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_02: more peaceful when it comes to dating
• 54:19
  The dating app Field reports huge growth in this area in just
• 54:22
  the past two years.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: Really because of a toxic dating world.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: All social media is men are trash.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know who's not saying that?
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: The older ones up there.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_02: Not, you know, ghosting me after six weeks.
• 54:35
  Women over 40 have more spending power and social capital than
• 54:38
  ever before.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, is that why these new age gap relationships are all the rage?
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_02: More peaceful was really funny.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_02: Allison, do you have something to tell me?
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_02: Are you in an age gap relationship right now?
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think four years counts as age gap, but wow.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: So what do you think of this?
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_02: That was fascinating.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, talk to me.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_02: That was fascinating.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_01: What did you think?
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm being honest, I don't –
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, this is happening?
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because I would say 95% of my friends are like queer or women.
• 55:13
  So I guess I don't hear from a lot of straight men who are
• 55:17
  dating older women.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of surprising to me.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think, I mean, there's so much we could talk about with this.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_02: Why are you so excited about it though?
• 55:25
  Oh,
• 55:26
  because I like things that make me think about 16 different
• 55:29
  thoughts at once.
• 55:29
  I think the first one is just that sense of love to see some of
• 55:34
  the old paradigms
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_01: shifting around who's allowed to be attracted to whom.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think that's always been super political.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_01: Who gets to date whom?
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: All the rules that happen, spoken and unspoken.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I always like to see anything where those rules get broken.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what's interesting is I feel like these men, they're not all...
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_02: Our favorite thing.
• 55:57
  Everyone contains a lot more nuance and you can't really talk
• 55:59
  about half the
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_02: population with a single brushstroke.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, all young men are not running to Andrew Tate.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_02: Some of them are looking for different things.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_02: Is it that they're just looking to be taken care of?
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, totally, right?
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_01: that is one of the things I thought is like,
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: yes,
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: on the one hand,
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: great,
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: women get to have more options,
• 56:18
  but is this actually just a new way that women will actually be
• 56:23
  caretaking and that
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_01: the attraction is to actually for men not to actually adult,
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_01: and they want someone else to adult for them.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's potentially complicated.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_02: More coddling, mommying.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_01: Mommying, oh my God.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: No moms need to do any more mommying.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_02: They want women with a mortgage, maturity, and a bag of snacks.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God.
• 56:46
  I probably shouldn't tell you that I have a drawer full of
• 56:48
  snacks at my house.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_02: For you or for your beau?
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: Whoever comes by.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_01: Anybody.
• 56:55
  Honestly,
• 56:56
  I think a successful relationship,
• 56:58
  a large part of it is hanger management.
• 57:00
  You've got to know when the other person is hungry because your
• 57:04
  worst parts of you
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_02: always come out when you're hungry.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God.
• 57:07
  So this is one of the things I think that would be the best
• 57:09
  about being a politician.
• 57:10
  So we definitely heard in our conversation with Faz about like
• 57:14
  it's bad for
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_01: politicians to have everybody taking care of them.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I swear to God,
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_01: if I could have someone walking around feeding me food when I get hungry,
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_01: that would be the best.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_02: Superwoman.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: I would totally be superwoman.
• 57:25
  I would have perfect relationships at work and at home and
• 57:29
  everything would be fine.
• 57:30
  And maybe that's why these age gap relationships are so
• 57:33
  successful because these
• 57:33
  women have a knack for managing people's physiological needs so
• 57:40
  there's no
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_02: fighting.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think so.
• 57:43
  I have to imagine there's plenty of women who thought it might
• 57:46
  be a good idea to
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: date a young man and they're like,
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_01: wait,
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_01: what?
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_01: I have to stay up past 10?
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_01: Why would I do that?
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_02: maybe,
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_02: I guess they're saying there's some data behind this,
• 57:54
  but this video seems to be over-representing what's actually
• 57:58
  happening here.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_02: I think that there's still a lot more older men dating younger women.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_01: I will say,
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_01: though,
• 58:05
  I definitely think that there's a double standard that if a
• 58:09
  much older man dates a
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_01: younger woman,
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_01: I definitely can have feelings about that.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_01: But if I see an older woman dating a much younger man,
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_01: I might say,
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_01: hmm,
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_01: not really sure I get why.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: but go for it.
• 58:21
  And I do think that there is,
• 58:22
  you know,
• 58:22
  the social norms and I have my what?
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_02: There's power.
• 58:25
  There's also just like the power dynamic there is slightly
• 58:28
  different or significantly different.
• 58:30
  But I do think all in all,
• 58:32
  I like seeing things that change the rulebook,
• 58:36
  right?
• 58:36
  That expand people's options for how to be for men,
• 58:39
  for women,
• 58:40
  for everybody,
• 58:41
  it's just we need more opportunity to be ourselves than less
• 58:45
  and so if that means
• 58:46
  women want to date what I mean well now next week I'm gonna
• 58:50
  next age bait I'm gonna
• 58:51
  bring you AI romances and see how you feel about that okay I'm
• 58:56
  not that open-minded
• 58:57
  okay that's what I thought all right I think we should call it
• 59:02
  a wrap I think we
• 59:04
  should call it a wrap too that was a pretty good age bait
• 59:07
  Allison I like it I gotta
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_02: take a nap after that yeah take a nap have a snack
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_02: Talk to you tomorrow Yeah, talk to you tomorrow