Latest / Executive Careers with Fexingo: VP, C-Suite, and Senior Leadership Career Strategy / How Senior Leaders Use the Pre-Interview Reference Map
Transcript
- Lucas: So here's something I've been noticing in senior-level searches lately. Candidates are starting to run their own reference checks — on the hiring company — before they even get to the final round. And I don't mean informal gossip. I mean a structured, pre-interview reference map. Luna: Wait — you mean the candidate calls someone who used to work there, before they've even interviewed? Doesn't that risk burning a bridge if word gets back? Lucas: That's the first objection everyone raises. But the senior leaders who do this well aren't calling anyone at the target company. They're calling people in their network who have worked with people at the company. Peers at other firms, former colleagues who overlapped with the CEO, maybe a board member they know socially. It's not a formal reference check — it's intelligence gathering. Luna: Okay, so it's a pre-vet disguised as a catch-up. I've actually had someone do that to me — a former peer called and said, 'Hey, I'm talking to X Corp, you know the CFO there, what's your read?' And I told them honestly. It felt totally appropriate. Lucas: Exactly. And the reason it's becoming more common is that the cost of a bad fit at the VP or C-suite level is enormous. We're talking six to twelve months of lost momentum, equity that never vests, reputation damage. A single honest conversation can save you that. Luna: I want to hear a real example. Who's done this well? Lucas: I talked to a former chief revenue officer — let's call her Sarah — who was a finalist for a president role at a mid-cap SaaS company. She had a strong connection with the CEO, the board seemed aligned, the comp was right. But something felt off in the second round. The CEO was a little too enthusiastic about 'speed of decision-making.' So Sarah called a former colleague who had worked with the board chair at a previous company. Luna: And what did she learn? Lucas: That the board had a pattern of overriding the CEO on key hires. They'd approved a candidate, then pulled the offer after a board member's friend expressed interest. Sarah realized she'd be walking into a situation where her authority would be undermined from day one. She withdrew before the final round. The role stayed open for eight months, and the person who eventually took it left within a year. Luna: So her pre-interview reference map saved her from a toxic situation. That's powerful. But how do you build that map without looking like you're checking up on them? Lucas: You structure it in three categories. I call them champions, validators, and informants. Champions are people who know you well and can speak to your fit — you'd use them for the actual reference check later. Validators are industry peers who can confirm the company's reputation from a distance. Informants are the ones with inside knowledge — former employees, board members, consultants who've worked with the leadership team. Luna: And the ask is different for each category. Lucas: Right. For informants, you're not asking 'should I take this job?' That's too direct. You ask something like, 'I'm exploring a role at X Corp and I know you worked with their CTO a few years back. What was your impression of how they handle strategic pivots?' That's specific, non-transactional, and it gives you a window into culture and decision-making. Luna: That script is good. It's not 'tell me if they're crazy.' It's a focused question that signals you're doing your homework. Lucas: And if they offer something unsolicited — like 'well, the board tends to micromanage' — you don't follow up aggressively. You just say 'that's helpful context' and let them keep talking. The best intelligence comes when people feel they're helping, not being interrogated. Luna: I imagine some listeners are thinking, 'I don't have a network that includes someone who knows the board chair.' How do you start building that map if you're not already well-connected? Lucas: Start with LinkedIn. Look at the company's leadership page, note the names, then search for common connections. You'd be surprised how often a second-degree connection has a shared alumni group or conference. Then you ask for an introduction. 'Hey, I see you know Jane Doe at X Corp. I'm exploring a senior role there and would love your perspective on the leadership team's style.' That's a low-friction ask. Luna: And if you have no direct connection at all? Lucas: Then you can use former employees who've left on good terms. They're often the most candid, because they have no incentive to protect the company. You find them through your network, or even through a warm introduction from a recruiter. The key is to frame it as due diligence, not gossip. Luna: You know, this reminds me of something — and I think it ties in well here. A couple of dollars a month is genuinely what keeps these podcasts going. If you've gotten anything out of our episodes, buy me a coffee dot com slash fexingo. It's how we stay ad-free and focused on content like this. Lucas: Yeah, absolutely. And it makes a real difference — keeps the lights on so we can keep digging into strategies like this one. Now, back to the map. Once you have your informants, there's a timing question. Luna: When do you make those calls? Before the first interview? After? Lucas: Ideally after the first round but before the final round. Because after the first round, you have enough context to ask informed questions. And before the final round, you still have leverage to walk away. If you wait until after you've accepted, it's too late to change your mind without burning bridges. Luna: That makes sense. You don't want to be the person who accepts and then backs out because of something you could have learned earlier. Lucas: Exactly. And the other benefit is that the information can actually help you in interviews. If you learn that the CEO values data-driven decision-making, you can tailor your examples accordingly. It's not cheating — it's preparation. Luna: So the map serves two purposes: it helps you decide whether to proceed, and it helps you perform better if you do. Lucas: That's the framework. Now, let me give you a specific case from a VP of marketing I coached. She was interviewing at a well-known consumer brand. The first two rounds went great. But when she started her pre-interview reference map, she talked to a former vendor who had worked with the marketing team. The vendor mentioned that the CMO had a pattern of hiring senior leaders and then sidelining them after six months. Luna: That's exactly the kind of intelligence you can't get from a Glassdoor review. Lucas: Right. So she went into the final round with her eyes open. She asked the CMO directly, 'How do you measure success for a new VP in the first year? And what does the onboarding look like for senior hires?' The CMO's answer was vague. That confirmed the vendor's intel. She didn't take the offer, and six months later the company restructured that whole department. Luna: So the map isn't just about avoiding disasters. It can also confirm that a good opportunity is genuinely good. Lucas: Exactly. I've had candidates who did the map and came back saying, 'Everyone I talked to raved about the CEO. The culture is exactly what I'm looking for.' That gave them confidence to negotiate harder on compensation, because they knew the fit was right. Luna: Let's talk about the risks. What if your call gets back to the hiring company? Can that backfire? Lucas: It can, if you're careless. The rule is: never call someone currently employed at the company unless you have explicit permission. And never say anything negative about the company during the call — you're gathering information, not venting. If the person you're calling is indiscreet, that's their problem, not yours. But you keep your own tone neutral and curious. Luna: So the script matters. Can you give us a template? Lucas: Sure. You say: 'Hi, I'm exploring a senior role at and I know you have experience with their leadership team. I'd love your perspective on how they make strategic decisions and what the culture is like for senior leaders. I'm not asking you to recommend me or anything — just want to go in with my eyes open.' That sets the right tone. Luna: And if they ask who you're talking to? Lucas: You can say you're in early conversations with the company and prefer not to share specifics until you're further along. Most people understand that. If they push, you can redirect: 'Right now I'm just exploring, but I'd value your general impressions.' Luna: That feels respectful. Now, how many conversations should you have? One? Three? Lucas: I'd recommend three to five. That gives you enough data to spot patterns. One conversation might be an outlier. If three different people independently mention that the board is difficult, that's a pattern. If only one says it, maybe it's a personal grudge. Luna: And you want to cover different angles: one person who knows the CEO, one who knows the team, one who knows the board. Lucas: Exactly. That's the informant category. And you don't have to know these people well. A mutual connection, a conference encounter, even a cold LinkedIn message with a warm introduction — all fair game. Senior leaders are surprisingly willing to help if you approach them respectfully. Luna: So the pre-interview reference map is really about shifting from being a passive candidate to an active decision-maker. Lucas: That's the core insight. Most senior leaders spend hours preparing their answers for the interview, but almost no time preparing the questions they need answered to decide if the role is right for them. This flips the script. You're interviewing them as much as they're interviewing you. Luna: And the best time to start building that map is before you even need it. Because if you wait until you're in a search, you're scrambling. Lucas: That's the long game. Keep a running list of people you respect in your industry. Note where they've worked. When you hear they've moved to a new company, file it. Then when you're considering that company, you already have a name. It's a career intelligence habit, not a one-time tactic. Luna: I think that's the most actionable takeaway from this episode. Start a list today. Lucas: Yeah. And if you're in a search right now, you can start building your map this afternoon. Identify three target companies, find five informants for each, and have those conversations before your next interview. The information you get could change the trajectory of your career. Luna: Alright, that's it for this episode. Next time we'll talk about something I've been curious about — how senior leaders handle the 'counteroffer dilemma' when their current company tries to keep them. Lucas: That's a good one. See you next time.