Latest / Voddie Baucham Sermons / Voddie Baucham - TS&TT Voddie Baucham Health Update, Fault Lines, Resolution 9 & Big Eva

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Voddie Baucham - TS&TT Voddie Baucham Health Update, Fault Lines, Resolution 9 & Big Eva · Voddie Baucham Sermons

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  Speaker 1: Welcome to The Sword in the Trowel, a podcast of
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  Speaker 1: Founders Ministries. Founders Ministries exists for the recovery of the
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  Speaker 1: gospel and the reformation of churches. I'm Jerry Longshore.
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  Speaker 2: And I'm Tom Askell.
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  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to The Sword in the Trowel today.
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  Speaker 1: We are delighted to have you with us, and we
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  Speaker 1: are delighted to have our dear brother, Votie Bauckham. With
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  Speaker 1: us on this podcast, we thank the Lord for how
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: he has sustained you, brother. We have been praying for
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  Speaker 1: you along with Christians all over the place. It is so,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: so good to see your face. We're so happy that
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  Speaker 1: you're here with us. We're going to give you a
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  Speaker 1: little bit more of a formal introduction soon, although Vody
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  Speaker 1: doesn't need one. Before we get into that, we've got
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  Speaker 1: a lot of announcements. They're coming rapid fire. What do
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  Speaker 1: we have coming up?
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: Man, we've got most.
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  Speaker 2: Urgently right now, we've got our Be It Resolved One
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  Speaker 2: Day Conference, June 14th in Nashville, Tennessee. This is the
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  Speaker 2: day before Southern Baptist Convention launches on June 15th. And
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  Speaker 2: this conference is going to be very pivotal. It's a
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  Speaker 2: conference for our moment right now in the Southern Baptist Convention.
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  Speaker 2: If you're Southern Baptist, even if you're not, if you're
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  Speaker 2: in the Nashville area, you can get there. We encourage
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  Speaker 2: you to come. But all Southern Baptists, we want to
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  Speaker 2: come to this conference because we've got to deal honestly
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  Speaker 2: with Not just with the problems that have been sprouting up,
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  Speaker 2: but we need to get below the surface level and
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  Speaker 2: recognize what is at the root of all this nonsense
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  Speaker 2: that's going on in the SBC.
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  Speaker 3: That's what this conference is about.
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  Speaker 1: Monday, July 14th, a one-day Founders Conference. Be it resolved,
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  Speaker 1: a call for resolution in uncertain times. Watch this trailer
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  Speaker 1: for the conference.
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  Speaker 3: We have a book. It says this. What do you
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  Speaker 3: think makes the SBC the best denomination in America? If
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  Speaker 3: you believe the book, that's good. We're on the same team.
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  Speaker 4: I'm going to put it, just simply put, that we
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  Speaker 4: stick to what the Scripture has to tell us. I'm
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  Speaker 4: not seeing the SBC do what some conventions are doing
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  Speaker 4: in terms of stepping away from their values and stances
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  Speaker 4: on biblical hot-button topics.
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  Speaker 2: If you say, yeah, I believe the book, but because
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  Speaker 2: of the position I'm in, I really can't say much,
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  Speaker 2: then go get a different.
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  Speaker 5: Kind of job.
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  Speaker 2: How do you feel about a woman being president of
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  Speaker 2: the SBC?
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  Speaker 4: I don't know that I have a comment on that, honestly.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, do you think Scripture speaks on women preachers or pastors?
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  Speaker 2: Would you be willing to talk about that at all?
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  Speaker 4: I'd say the Bible does. The Bible does speak upon it.
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  Speaker 4: Since I'm honestly representing Lifeway, I'd rather let Lifeway answer
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  Speaker 4: that question.
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  Speaker 6: We're requesting that Resolutions 9 through 13 will be taken
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  Speaker 6: as a block.
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  Speaker 3: I'll tell you what happened.
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  Speaker 6: On the adoption of Resolution 9.
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  Speaker 3: What happened?
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  Speaker 5: We've been played.
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  Speaker 3: The resolution is adopted.
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  Speaker 5: We've been played.
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  Speaker 2: I am shocked that we could have a pro-critical theory
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  Speaker 2: resolution come out of our resolutions committee this year.
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  Speaker 6: And this resolution is very clear in the way that
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  Speaker 6: we have approached the discussion of critical race theory and intersectionality.
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  Speaker 1: All of Christianity. Let's end Christianity. How do we do it?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, how would you do it?
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  Speaker 1: Make them woke.
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  Speaker 3: That couldn't have happened last year. That couldn't have happened.
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  Speaker 2: In a year I can remember since Before the resurgence
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  Speaker 2: was successful.
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  Speaker 3: Maybe not even then.
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  Speaker 4: If I might predict it, we're going to hold up
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  Speaker 4: some icon, a woman, racial minorities, and they'll say a
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  Speaker 4: church that doesn't have room for this person doesn't have
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  Speaker 4: room for any of us.
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  Speaker 2: A Southern Baptist convention that doesn't have a place for
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  Speaker 2: Beth Moore doesn't have a place for a lot of us.
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  Speaker 6: We will take this as an unfriendly amendment for this purpose.
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  Speaker 6: Critical race theory and intersectionality are simply disingenuous. analytical tools.
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  Speaker 6: They're meant to be used as tools, not as a worldview.
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  Speaker 2: And the original resolution that was submitted by a pastor
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  Speaker 2: out in California actually said 180 degrees opposite. They took
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  Speaker 2: the title of the resolution that was submitted by the
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  Speaker 2: messenger from California and then they gutted it and put
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  Speaker 2: their own words in there to turn it into something
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  Speaker 2: that was not at all what was submitted.
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  Speaker 3: I think that is at best disingenuous.
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  Speaker 2: Most of the folks in our churches have not bought
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  Speaker 2: into this. I just think most of the folks in
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  Speaker 2: our churches still believe the Bible.
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  Speaker 1: We would love for you to join us Monday, June
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  Speaker 1: 14th for this One Day Founders Conference in Nashville. If
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  Speaker 1: you're not able to join us, you will be able
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  Speaker 1: to live stream this conference by joining the fam. For
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: fam members, we're going to have a live stream online
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  Speaker 1: that you can take advantage of. So go to founders.org
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  Speaker 1: to find out more information about that. We have another
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  Speaker 1: conference coming up, but it's not until January 20th. January
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  Speaker 1: 20th through the 22nd, Militant and Triumphant. Our brother Votie
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  Speaker 1: Bauckham here will be there preaching God's Word. You'll be preaching.
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  Speaker 1: I'm preaching. We're going to have Pastor James Coates from Alberta.
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  Speaker 3: Canada.
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  Speaker 1: He's going to be preaching as well. Conrad Mbewe is
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  Speaker 1: going to be there preaching God's Word. It's going to
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  Speaker 1: be a wonderful time. Doctrine of the Church. How do
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  Speaker 1: we stand in today's world? with militancy and triumphantly trusting
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  Speaker 1: in the Lord Jesus Christ and being empowered by his spirit.
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  Speaker 1: You can go to founders.org and register for that conference
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  Speaker 1: now as well.
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  Speaker 3: That's right.
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  Speaker 2: That's in Southwest Florida right here. Beautiful time of year
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  Speaker 2: to be in Southwest Florida. And by God's grace, Florida
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  Speaker 2: has been blessed with a lot of freedom because of
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  Speaker 2: the way he's led our governing authorities. And so plan
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  Speaker 2: on being with us January 20th through 22nd. here in
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  Speaker 2: Southwest Florida for that militant and triumphant Doctrine of the
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  Speaker 2: Church conference.
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  Speaker 1: And final update is the Institute of Public Theology is
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  Speaker 1: now open for applications. Classes launch in the fall. There
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  Speaker 1: is also going to be a convocation in the fall.
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  Speaker 1: And so you can go to instituteofpublictheology.org to find out
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  Speaker 1: more information about that. And we have Votie Bauckham will
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  Speaker 1: be teaching a class coming up in January.
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  Speaker 3: That's right. That's right.
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  Speaker 2: He'll be teaching cultural apologetics January the 12th through the 18th.
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  Speaker 2: And I encourage you to sign up for that. So
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  Speaker 2: if you need more information, again, you can go to
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  Speaker 2: the Institute of Public Theology dot org and get that there.
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  Speaker 2: But Vody, welcome, man. It's great to have you here
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  Speaker 2: with us. It's great to see you. And I know
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  Speaker 2: that others are going to be delighted to see you
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  Speaker 2: as well. What an ordeal over the last few months
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  Speaker 2: that the Lord has taken you and your family through.
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  Speaker 2: And first first question out of the gate is how
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  Speaker 2: are you doing?
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  Speaker 5: You know, first of all, thank you for having me.
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  Speaker 5: I really appreciate this opportunity. I haven't been doing much. Really,
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  Speaker 5: I haven't been doing anything in the last couple of months.
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  Speaker 3: Just trying to recover. I mean, that's a lot.
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  Speaker 5: Well, first, just trying not to die. And then after that,
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  Speaker 5: just trying to get through all this, trying to recover.
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  Speaker 5: And I'm happy to say I'm doing much better. The
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  Speaker 5: road to recovery from this is a long one. I'm today, actually,
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  Speaker 5: five weeks post-op from open-heart surgery, which is a pretty
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  Speaker 5: brutal thing to experience and go through. But God's been
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  Speaker 5: gracious and God's been kind. I'm on the road to
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  Speaker 5: recovery and looking forward to being restored to complete health
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  Speaker 5: and getting back at it.
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  Speaker 3: Amen. Amen.
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  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, we're looking forward to you getting back at it.
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  Speaker 2: And it's interesting in God's providential arrangement of things, you know,
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  Speaker 2: how this has happened because you wrote this book, Fault Lines,
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  Speaker 2: last summer and had all these big plans about promoting it.
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  Speaker 2: And God said, no, I don't think so. We're going
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  Speaker 2: to put Bodhi on his back and make him lie down.
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  Speaker 2: And while you have been doing that, the book has
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  Speaker 2: exploded and has really gone around the world. Literally, I've
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  Speaker 2: heard from people in different nations. that are reading the
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  Speaker 2: book with great profit and so grateful for your efforts
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  Speaker 2: in that book. And, you know, I know it's got
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  Speaker 2: to be a challenge for you to think, man, I
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  Speaker 2: was scheduled to have like a 30-city speaking tour and lots.
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  Speaker 3: Of promotional things.
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  Speaker 2: And, you know, you just had to sit back and
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  Speaker 2: watch God do what he's doing differently than anybody could
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  Speaker 2: have planned.
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  Speaker 3: So, I mean, how's that been? What are you hearing?
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  Speaker 5: You know, it's been interesting because we were supposed to
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  Speaker 5: leave Jacksonville, again, all of this stuff was in the
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  Speaker 5: works long before we knew what was going on with
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  Speaker 5: my heart. And then I had the first procedure, February 25th.
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  Speaker 5: And my goal after that was I got to be
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  Speaker 5: ready to go, you know, April 5th to start this tour.
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  Speaker 5: And there were a couple of things that they wanted
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  Speaker 5: to do. A couple of things that they wanted to
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  Speaker 5: look at just to make sure. And they did one
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  Speaker 5: of those the day before we were supposed to get
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  Speaker 5: out of here. And that's when the wheels fell off
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  Speaker 5: and that's when they immediately decided, Oh, we're admitting you, uh,
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  Speaker 5: we're doing open heart surgery. So instead of, you know,
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  Speaker 5: turning around and leave and go do all the tour
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  Speaker 5: and everything, um, I ended up having, having open heart
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  Speaker 5: surgery during the time, um, that I was supposed to
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  Speaker 5: be out, promoting the book. But, you know, in God's providence,
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  Speaker 5: like you said, the book just exploded, even without promotion.
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  Speaker 5: First of all, because of an incredible group of people
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  Speaker 5: who signed up for the launch team. So a lot
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  Speaker 5: happened before the book launched. And then just you know,
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  Speaker 5: because of word of mouth and everything else that had
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  Speaker 5: been happening. And so we ended up debuting it at
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  Speaker 5: number seven on USA Today, Publishers Weekly, and Wall Street
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  Speaker 5: Journal bestsellers list. And it's been incredible. It's been, you know,
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  Speaker 5: four weeks on the USA Today bestsellers list. And this is,
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  Speaker 5: you know, despite the fact that in most bookstores, you
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  Speaker 5: won't find a book. You know, we went to Barnes
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  Speaker 5: & Noble here in Jacksonville, Florida, just, you know, a
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  Speaker 5: To go and take the kids in, find Dad's book,
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  Speaker 5: buy a copy. And they had one copy. And the
• 10:55
  Speaker 5: one copy they had, they had to go back to
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  Speaker 5: the back. Because it wasn't even on the shelf. And
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  Speaker 5: so this is, yeah, this is the kind of thing
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  Speaker 5: that's happening all over the place. And yet, in spite
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  Speaker 5: of all of that, the book's going on gangbusters.
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  Speaker 1: Voting without giving away all the goodies of the book
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  Speaker 1: is called Fault Lines, the Social Justice Movement, and Evangelicalism's
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  Speaker 1: Looming Catastrophe. So why did you write this thing?
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's the big question. You know, I've been dealing
• 11:31
  Speaker 5: with and talking about many of these issues for a
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  Speaker 5: decade and a half. And We've had some of these
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  Speaker 5: discussions ourselves over the last several years. And it seemed
• 11:45
  Speaker 5: like things were ramping up. Things were moving more rapidly.
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  Speaker 5: And because of a number of things that were happening
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  Speaker 5: in the culture, a number of flashpoints, this divide became
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  Speaker 5: more and more obvious. And the need to say something
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  Speaker 5: about it, in my estimation, became more and more urgent.
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  Speaker 5: And so that's really what motivated me writing this book.
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  Speaker 5: I really felt like this was something that God had
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  Speaker 5: been preparing me to say for over a decade and
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  Speaker 5: a half. Something that needed to be said. Something that
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  Speaker 5: I was in a unique position to say. And that's
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  Speaker 5: where a perfect storm came together. And that's what I remember.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so you had, what, like 10, 15 evangelical
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  Speaker 2: publishing houses coming to you, begging you to let you
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  Speaker 2: publish this work.
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  Speaker 5: With them, right? Yeah, yeah, no, no, not exactly. You know,
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  Speaker 5: one of the funny things, we've talked about this, a
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  Speaker 5: lot of people say, instead of making, you know, arguments
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  Speaker 5: or counter-arguments, they say, well, no, Bodie's just doing this
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  Speaker 5: to curry favor. He's doing this to curry favor with
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  Speaker 5: white people. And I'm sitting here going, that's a pretty
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  Speaker 5: stupid thing for me to do. Because evangelical publishers have
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  Speaker 5: not wanted to touch me for a number of years now.
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  Speaker 5: Really going all the way back to some of the
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  Speaker 5: things that I said and wrote after the Michael Brown incident,
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  Speaker 5: things like that. And that's when things really started to
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  Speaker 5: shake out. That's when you really started to see this
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  Speaker 5: divide between... you know, people who interpreted things one way
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  Speaker 5: and people who interpreted things another. And so, no, I,
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  Speaker 5: I had, I had, uh, my literary agent had, uh,
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  Speaker 5: floated a couple of proposals even before that. And, uh,
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  Speaker 5: everybody passed. There was one publisher, uh, who was willing
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  Speaker 5: to take a shot at, at that. Um, and then
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  Speaker 5: after that, when we decided that because of what was
• 13:56
  Speaker 5: going on, Fall Lines needed to be the first book
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  Speaker 5: that came out, uh, that publisher decided that someone else
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: would probably be better suited to, to publish this book and, uh,
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  Speaker 5: gave us six weeks to try to find somebody who
• 14:09
  Speaker 5: would publish this book. And, you know, by God's grace,
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  Speaker 5: Salem was there and, uh, Salem was, was eager, anxious
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  Speaker 5: to post this book, but no, the evangelical publishing world
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  Speaker 5: has treated me like a pariah for, a number of
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  Speaker 5: years now.
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  Speaker 1: If you were to put it in like a nutshell,
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  Speaker 1: just a paragraph, what's your main point? What's your main
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: argument in the book? Just give us a quick summary
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  Speaker 1: in your own words.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 5: My main argument is that we are looking at, uh,
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  Speaker 5: another world. That, that the reason that people are missing
• 14:46
  Speaker 5: each other when certain events happen, um, when there's a
• 14:50
  Speaker 5: police shooting or, or, or whatever, is that we're interpreting
• 14:57
  Speaker 5: those things through two different lenses. And I wanted to
• 15:00
  Speaker 5: show people this lens of critical race theory intersectionality and
• 15:06
  Speaker 5: how it interprets things. And I also wanted to show
• 15:09
  Speaker 5: people how that interpretation has gained traction at the highest
• 15:15
  Speaker 5: levels of evangelicals and how that's the source of this
• 15:22
  Speaker 5: major divide that we're seeing. And how the gospel is
• 15:26
  Speaker 5: our only hope. That we've been called and commanded to
• 15:31
  Speaker 5: take every thought cast. We've been called and commanded, you know,
• 15:36
  Speaker 5: to refute those who contradict John's doctrine. And we've been
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: called and commanded to do that because we love the
• 15:43
  Speaker 5: gospel and we love the brother. Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: And Vody, man, your book has just resonated.
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  Speaker 2: With folks that have had this sense yeah there's something
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  Speaker 2: wrong and even as they've begun to see that a
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: lot of the things that happened in 2020 and the
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: violence that just broke out rampantly and the silence so
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: often of evangelical leaders and thinking why is this and
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: and some evangelical leaders even seem to try to justify
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  Speaker 2: the violence you know well okay that's just the voice
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: of the unheard and don't ask what they're doing ask
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  Speaker 2: why they're doing it and all And your book is
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: coming along and saying, no, let me help you to
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  Speaker 2: think rightly about these things and bring.
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  Speaker 3: The gospel to bear. And so it's been great.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I've had people talk to me that it's
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: like this book has just been exactly what we've been
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: looking for. It's like a lifesaver because we felt like
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: we were drowning. And we talked to our pastors, looked
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: to evangelical leaders and got zero results. And now this
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: book is putting it in a different perspective and helping
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: us to think, reorient thinking about, no, we do have
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: a gospel. And that's one of the things I love
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: about the book is you bring the gospel in regularly.
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  Speaker 3: You show how.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: These ideologies that are at play, what's behind Black Lives Matter,
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  Speaker 2: which again, you know, who wants to not say Black
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Lives Matter? We were forced and many people, you know,
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: just they caved. And so, of course, Black Lives Matter.
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  Speaker 2: thinking the words in and of themselves, of course, you know,
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: black lives matter just like all lives matter, but the
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: ideology behind that. I mean, you just, you expose.
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  Speaker 3: That so clearly.
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  Speaker 2: This is Marxist. Uh, this is radical. This is anti-gospel.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: And in doing so you hold forth the hope of
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: the gospel. I love the last part of the book.
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  Speaker 2: I think it's the last chapter. We say, man, here's
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: the way forward. We've got to mitigate these problems and
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: we've got to believe in true reconciliation, true justification. I
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: think you say some point that the key is forgiveness, right?
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Which we've all been forgiven, right?
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah. And really, that was my hope. My hope was
• 17:38
  Speaker 5: that the book would kind of build to that crescendo.
• 17:42
  Speaker 5: And one of the things that I see with this
• 17:45
  Speaker 5: whole anti-racist movement is that it is definitely religious in
• 17:51
  Speaker 5: its overtones. But it's an anti-gospel. There is no forgiveness.
• 17:58
  Speaker 5: There is no redemption. And it just amazed me to
• 18:02
  Speaker 5: see Christians latching on to, maybe they weren't even latching
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: on to this ideology, but they were latching on to
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: the terminology of this anti-ghost. And I've said to people,
• 18:15
  Speaker 5: it would be akin to someone in the church starting
• 18:18
  Speaker 5: to talk about, you know, Vishnu and Shiva and Nirvana
• 18:26
  Speaker 5: and reincarnation. but all the while saying, no, no, no, no,
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: I don't believe Hinduism. I just believe that the ideas
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: behind the work that they're using are important. And if
• 18:44
  Speaker 5: that were happening, I think we'd be saying to that person,
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: you know what, you need to choose some different words
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: and you need to understand what those words mean and
• 18:54
  Speaker 5: where those words come from. And because of what they
• 18:57
  Speaker 5: mean and where they come from, You should not use
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: those words. And so that's kind of what I'm trying
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: to do there and then show how different the concept
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: of anti-racism is from the concept of the gospel and
• 19:15
  Speaker 5: reconciliation in Christ. And really that word forgiveness is what
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: it comes down to because there is no forgiveness in anti-racism.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Vody, what have been like the, you know, the book's
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: been out now. I've noted some people challenging various parts
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: of the book or various dimensions of it. What have
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: been the kind of the strongest objections? And what would
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: you say to those? They say, hey, well, here's where
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: I would think Vody's off here. What are those? And
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: then speak to them.
• 19:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't even know. You know, one of the
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: things that I've done just for the sake of my
• 19:54
  Speaker 5: own recovery during the time is I've stayed away from
• 19:58
  Speaker 5: all that, right? I haven't gotten into all that. I
• 20:04
  Speaker 5: haven't paid attention to all that. I mean, the book's
• 20:07
  Speaker 5: out there. There are going to be people on various
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: sides of it. I've seen some of the outright dismissals
• 20:18
  Speaker 5: of the book. My favorite is the guy who called
• 20:23
  Speaker 5: it a you know, a straw man, slippery slope, piece
• 20:27
  Speaker 5: of trash.
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. We're not going to mention Anthony Bradley's name though, right?
• 20:32
  Speaker 5: Wow. Yeah.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I sent you that or not,
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: but I've tried not to send you too much. But
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: when I saw what Anthony Bradley said, that was such
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: a joke. I mean, this is, that was such a joke.
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: That's ridiculous.
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: So it was, it was because of things like that,
• 20:48
  Speaker 5: that I decided, you know what, maybe right now it's
• 20:50
  Speaker 5: not the time for me to even delve into the
• 20:53
  Speaker 5: to all of that. I'm sure the time will come.
• 20:57
  Speaker 5: And again, my hope in the book as well, my
• 21:00
  Speaker 5: hope is that it would be a flashpoint, right? My
• 21:03
  Speaker 5: hope was that it would ignite some things and that
• 21:08
  Speaker 5: it would get people to talking about this, maybe with
• 21:14
  Speaker 5: some common language, right? And maybe with some of these issues,
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: sort of laid out on the table so that there
• 21:22
  Speaker 5: would be a foundation from which to debate them. And
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: that's my hope is that it's a contribution to the debate.
• 21:32
  Speaker 5: I don't think we should shy away from debate. I
• 21:34
  Speaker 5: think we should run to this debate because these things
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: are essential and some of them are dangerous. And so, yeah,
• 21:46
  Speaker 5: I'm not in that yet. Eventually, I guess I will be,
• 21:50
  Speaker 5: but I really enjoy not being.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: Part of it.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: That's a great part of being there in Jacksonville.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: I envy you sometimes.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, but Dana Lesh called it, you know, one
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: of the most powerful books she'd read in 10 years,
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: Something like that, which is wonderful.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: And I'm getting those kinds of comments from folks that
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: aren't as high profile.
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: As she is.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: One of the things that you do in this book
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: is you show how the Southern Baptist Convention.
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: has.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: Been integral in the debates, especially with Resolution 9. And
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: so you take Resolution 9 in its original form as
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: it was submitted and Resolution 9 as the resolutions committee
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: from 2019.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: Rehabilitated, dehabilitated, I don't know what the word.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: Is, and brought it back in. Molded it a little bit.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, changed it. Yeah, changed it.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: You give us play-doh.
• 22:39
  Speaker 5: I think the words I used were gutted and rewrote.
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there you go. Gutted, rewrote.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: That works. Think of a resolution as play-doh. You offer
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: play-doh to the resolutions committee and we shape it.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: So, I mean, talk about that a little bit of
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: what happened in 2019 with this Resolution 9 that came out.
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: And, I mean, that was far more significant. than people
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: realized at the moment, I think.
• 23:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and people that I've talked to who've read the book,
• 23:06
  Speaker 5: and I had a number of people read the book
• 23:08
  Speaker 5: before it came out and everything, and a number of
• 23:11
  Speaker 5: people were aware of Resolution 9, but few people were
• 23:16
  Speaker 5: aware that it was the opposite of the original resolution.
• 23:22
  Speaker 5: And this came out in the documentary, the Bywood Sanders documentary,
• 23:30
  Speaker 5: which I think really hit the nail on the head
• 23:34
  Speaker 5: and showed what happened in a powerful way. But yeah,
• 23:39
  Speaker 5: a lot of people had no idea that that resolution
• 23:42
  Speaker 5: was originally against critical race theory and intersectionality, and that
• 23:49
  Speaker 5: not only unaware of the fact that the Resolutions Committee
• 23:53
  Speaker 5: changed it, but unaware of the fact that two of
• 23:56
  Speaker 5: the members of the Resolutions Committee were professors at Southern
• 24:01
  Speaker 5: Baptist seminaries who have been teaching critical race theory, intersectionality,
• 24:06
  Speaker 5: and Black liberation theology for a while before they changed
• 24:11
  Speaker 5: that resolution. So, you know, that's one of the things. And,
• 24:15
  Speaker 5: you know, we debated whether or not to spend a
• 24:20
  Speaker 5: whole chapter on that, especially because it's very specific to
• 24:24
  Speaker 5: the Southern Baptist dimension. But in the end, decided that
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: this was significant enough to warrant that whole chapter being
• 24:34
  Speaker 5: spent on it. I think it fits well within the
• 24:38
  Speaker 5: flow of the book. I think it really makes the
• 24:40
  Speaker 5: point in a powerful way.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: We've got this conference coming up. The SBC is coming up.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: We haven't had one for two years since that resolution.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: We didn't meet last year because of COVID. Trying to
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: address that, I'm thinking of that looming conference now only
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: what a month away and your book as a flashpoint
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: and as a as an advance in the conversation even
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: in even writing a book you know it took you
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: time to write this book and the conversation is kind
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: of going on about this issue it seems to me
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: that the general census now and at least some of
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: the conservative evangelical world is that yeah You know, we
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: don't we don't want to be fully woke in social justice. Full,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: full throttle is bad. And even Resolution 9, I sense
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: a lot of people backing away from it. Yeah, it
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: was it was bad. And so it seems to me
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: your book is really pushing that next conversation. Like, how
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: did we get here and what do we do about it?
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: You know, do you have any any solutions or any directions?
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: If you say, yeah, once you grasp there is a
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: fault line here, what do we then do?
• 25:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and really that's chapters 10 and 11 in the book.
• 25:54
  Speaker 5: And I go to 2 Corinthians 10, right? And I
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: believe that Paul just really gives us a framework there, right?
• 26:05
  Speaker 5: The weapons of our warfare, they're not carnal, but they're
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: powerful for destroying strongholds. We destroy arguments and every lofty
• 26:15
  Speaker 5: opinion raised against the knowledge of God. And I think
• 26:18
  Speaker 5: that's where we start. And then we take every thought captive.
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: I think that there are a lot of people who
• 26:23
  Speaker 5: just want to run to the second part of that, right? Well,
• 26:27
  Speaker 5: we need to take every thought captive and we need
• 26:30
  Speaker 5: to think positively about how we work together and reconcile
• 26:37
  Speaker 5: and so on and so forth. But the first part
• 26:39
  Speaker 5: of that is essential. We have to destroy lofty opinions,
• 26:45
  Speaker 5: arguments and lofty opinions raised against the knowledge of God.
• 26:49
  Speaker 5: We can't just ignore critical race theory and sectionality and
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: just sort of run to, you know, let's love each other.
• 26:58
  Speaker 5: We have to destroy that. We have to expose that.
• 27:03
  Speaker 5: We have to dismantle that and then move toward the second.
• 27:08
  Speaker 5: you know, part of that text. And I think that's
• 27:11
  Speaker 5: what a lot of people have been trying not to do.
• 27:13
  Speaker 5: People who've been looking for some sort of third way.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 27:16
  Speaker 5: You know, and it's not always the case.
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: That's right, man.
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: There's this, there's this argument where, where brothers and sisters
• 27:24
  Speaker 5: are pitted against one another. And instead of saying that,
• 27:27
  Speaker 5: let's go ahead and deal with this and have this out, right?
• 27:30
  Speaker 5: Let's do the Lutheran Erasmus thing, you know? We just
• 27:34
  Speaker 5: sort of say, no, no, no, no, no. 11th commandment,
• 27:37
  Speaker 5: thou shalt be nice, right? You know, real Christians shouldn't
• 27:41
  Speaker 5: have disagreements. So let's just act like, you know, that
• 27:45
  Speaker 5: hasn't happened and figure out how to find some sort
• 27:47
  Speaker 5: of third way. And we can't do that. There is
• 27:50
  Speaker 5: no third way here. We have to address this. CRT, intersectionality,
• 27:58
  Speaker 5: critical theory, so on and so forth. And these things
• 28:01
  Speaker 5: have to be exposed for what they are. And then
• 28:05
  Speaker 5: we move on. Because if we don't, then those things
• 28:08
  Speaker 5: just continue to make headway. Because they're making headway in
• 28:10
  Speaker 5: the culture at large. And they're definitely making headway in
• 28:13
  Speaker 5: the church. And so we have to deal with that.
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: And I think another place to look at is Titus 1-9.
• 28:21
  Speaker 5: What does Titus 1-9 say we have to do? hold
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: firmly to the trustworthy word as taught, right? That's one,
• 28:28
  Speaker 5: have good theology, so that we might exhort in sound doctrine, right?
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: Teach good theology. And then the third one, again, we
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: don't want to do this, refute those who contradict it.
• 28:38
  Speaker 5: That's the obligation of an elder, to refute those who
• 28:42
  Speaker 5: contradict sound doctrine. So, you know, I think we've got
• 28:47
  Speaker 5: to do that. People have to know what these things
• 28:50
  Speaker 5: are and where they come from, so that they can
• 28:53
  Speaker 5: then understand Why this fault line has emerged and then
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: moves to the step of learning how to think rightly
• 29:02
  Speaker 5: about these issues.
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, that's so well put.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: And I mean, there are proposals right now in the air,
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: especially in the SBC, saying let's get the anti. CRT
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: people on one side and let's get the pro CRT people.
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: On the other side. And let's see, let's come to consensus.
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: Let's come to consensus.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: And I, they're good brothers, you know, they're well intended brothers,
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: perhaps even making these proposals. But I look at that
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: and say, there is no consensus. So what does light
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: have to do with darkness? How can two walk together
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: unless they're agreed? And I hate it, but I think
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: your book is exactly rightly titled. These are fault lines
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: and you're going to be on one side or the other.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: You try to stand in the middle, you're just going
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: to be ripped apart because there is no middle ground
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: here if we're going to be faithful to Christ. And
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: that's a, that's a hard thing. And when people hear
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: us say that and take this stand, they, you know,
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: they accuse us of breaking that 11th commandment as you
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: cited it. And, you know, you guys are just so
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: mean and you're so unyielding and you're unwilling to being
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: treated with wisdom.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: And it's not that.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: This is a right-wrong, a truth-error issue.
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: And there's no compromise.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: The Resolution 9, you know, the committee chairman, Curtis Woods,
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: when he was arguing against an amendment that I'd proposed
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: from the floor for that resolution, he said that critical
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: race theory and intersectionality, we're saying these are simply analytical tools,
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: simply analytical tools. And that's not true. I mean, you've
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: shown in your book, you know, this is a worldview.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: There are embedded philosophies. This has religion woven into it,
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: religious commitments involved in it. And one of the things,
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: talk about that in light of the Dallas Statement, the
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Statement on Social Justice and the Gospel. You and I
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: and some others participated in that. And I thought you
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: had a very insightful perspective that Resolution 9 may well
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: have been in response to the Dallas Statement and trying
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: to provide cover for those who are already teaching these
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: views in seminaries and colleges.
• 31:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah, well, you know, when the Dallas Statement came out,
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: there were a number of people who signed it, but
• 31:17
  Speaker 5: there were also a number of people who were conspicuous
• 31:21
  Speaker 5: in their absence of signing the Dallas Statement. Some of
• 31:25
  Speaker 5: them said they had issues with signing statements, even though
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: they had signed, you know, Nashville and other things. But
• 31:36
  Speaker 5: what I began to realize was that there were a
• 31:39
  Speaker 5: number of people who, because of relationships that they had,
• 31:43
  Speaker 5: and because of people who were in their camp, who
• 31:46
  Speaker 5: were on the wrong side of these issues, who were
• 31:50
  Speaker 5: essentially espousing critical race theory and intersectionality, There were a
• 31:54
  Speaker 5: number of people who, because of that, didn't want to
• 31:59
  Speaker 5: sign the Statement on Social Justice. They weren't against it.
• 32:06
  Speaker 5: They weren't writing papers against it. They weren't talking about,
• 32:09
  Speaker 5: you know, here are many ways in which it aired,
• 32:12
  Speaker 5: you know, so on and so forth. They were just
• 32:15
  Speaker 5: saying that, you know, pastorally, we think it's, you know,
• 32:21
  Speaker 5: which is kind of a roundabout way of saying, you're
• 32:24
  Speaker 5: going to offend people who are essentially teaching CRT and intersectionality.
• 32:33
  Speaker 5: And I think that that original resolution was born out
• 32:40
  Speaker 5: of that soil where people who looked at the statement
• 32:46
  Speaker 5: and saw the statement as something that made sense and
• 32:51
  Speaker 5: simultaneously were looking around at some of the big names
• 32:55
  Speaker 5: in evangelicalism, even some who said that, you know, who
• 32:58
  Speaker 5: would have said they were against critical race theory, against intersectionality,
• 33:02
  Speaker 5: so on and so forth, but they wouldn't sign the statement.
• 33:06
  Speaker 5: And so I think that original resolution was a way
• 33:09
  Speaker 5: to sort of smoke some of this out and basically
• 33:14
  Speaker 5: give an ultimatum, if you will. And I think it's
• 33:19
  Speaker 5: ironic that that original resolution was gutted and rewritten the
• 33:25
  Speaker 5: way that it was. So it became an ultimatum in
• 33:29
  Speaker 5: the other direction.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that statement really is. I can't get away from that.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: I know it's an appendix in your book, but it
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: does seem like a tangible way to see the fault line. And,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: you know, again, all of us signed that document, right?
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: I think James White signed that document. Doug Wilson signed
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: that document. You've got Chris Larson of Ligonier Ministry signed
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: that document and says our board thinks it's a timely
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: or great piece, something like that, very publicly about it.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: You don't have a single Southern Baptist seminary president that
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: signed that document.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: Not many professors, only a couple of professors.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: Very, very small number of professors in Southern Baptist seminaries.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: And I remember stepping back as I saw that unfold.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: I said, wow.
• 34:17
  Speaker 5: Wow.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: That is there. There is a way to tangibly see, um,
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: this fault line.
• 34:24
  Speaker 5: But if you understand that in a number of our
• 34:27
  Speaker 5: Southern Memphis seminaries, there were professors who were teaching this stuff,
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: then you understand why it would be difficult for seminary
• 34:39
  Speaker 5: presidents or fellow professors to sign on to this document. Um,
• 34:47
  Speaker 5: Because this stuff was there. These guys were there. And,
• 34:52
  Speaker 5: you know, a number of these people are Black professors.
• 34:55
  Speaker 5: So here's the Southern Baptist Convention, who, you know, for
• 34:59
  Speaker 5: years has been bending over backwards, not only to apologize
• 35:04
  Speaker 5: for racism and history, but also to say, no, we
• 35:08
  Speaker 5: want to see, you know, black people in the convention.
• 35:13
  Speaker 5: We want to see black leaders in the convention. We
• 35:16
  Speaker 5: want to see black professors at our seminaries. We want
• 35:19
  Speaker 5: to see black presidents of our seminaries and of our convention.
• 35:22
  Speaker 5: And so you start investing. I remember as a young seminarian,
• 35:26
  Speaker 5: guys investing in me, guys who saw potential. I remember,
• 35:30
  Speaker 5: and I write about it in this book, you know,
• 35:32
  Speaker 5: Paige Patterson, who brought me and another brother over to
• 35:37
  Speaker 5: his home where he and Dorothy fed us a meal
• 35:40
  Speaker 5: and talked about how he wanted to see us put
• 35:43
  Speaker 5: in the work so that we could advance in the
• 35:46
  Speaker 5: Southern Baptist Convention so that it could never be seen
• 35:50
  Speaker 5: as tokenism because we put in the work, right? And
• 35:52
  Speaker 5: so now all of a sudden you see a number
• 35:55
  Speaker 5: of professors at Southern Baptist seminaries and these seminaries are
• 35:59
  Speaker 5: very proud of that. They've worked long and hard to
• 36:03
  Speaker 5: cultivate these guys and to get them into these positions.
• 36:06
  Speaker 5: And all of a sudden, these guys, some of them,
• 36:09
  Speaker 5: are teaching CRT. They're teaching intersectionality. They're teaching Black liberation theology.
• 36:15
  Speaker 5: They're promoting it publicly when they're going and speaking at
• 36:18
  Speaker 5: different places. So what do you do? Do you fire
• 36:21
  Speaker 5: these guys and have everybody come and say, oh, we
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: knew you really didn't mean it? Or, I mean, what
• 36:29
  Speaker 5: do you do? Because that's the position that these guys
• 36:31
  Speaker 5: were in. Because we... know that the minute you fire
• 36:35
  Speaker 5: up Curtis Woods or Jarvis Williams, you know, or the
• 36:38
  Speaker 5: minute you fire, you know, Walter Strickland, the minute you fire,
• 36:43
  Speaker 5: and again, I don't know all the names, but again,
• 36:44
  Speaker 5: the minute you fire these people, what is going to
• 36:47
  Speaker 5: be said? It's going to be said that you're racist,
• 36:52
  Speaker 5: that you wanted black bodies, but not black voices.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: Interest convergence.
• 36:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah. The minute these guys got too black, you know,
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: you got rid of them, yada, yada, yada. And so,
• 37:04
  Speaker 5: you know, this was a very difficult position for guys
• 37:07
  Speaker 5: to find themselves in. And I think it goes a
• 37:10
  Speaker 5: long way in explaining why at least some of them
• 37:15
  Speaker 5: decided to shy away from the Dallas State. Yeah.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: You know, I think it's in your book, isn't it?
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Maybe we just talked about it. I know it's in
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: the book about Tony Dungy's statement. You know, you can
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: know when we're not being treated as tokens, not when
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: they hire us, but when they fire us.
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: You know, and they're willing to fire us.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, you're being treated on the basis of the
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: merits and, you know, your competencies on that point. And
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: it's fascinating to see the exact opposite happening out of
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: a fear of having those accusations brought against you that,
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: you know, you're not sincere in treating people of different
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: ethnicities all the same on the basis of their competencies.
• 37:51
  Speaker 5: And the great irony in that is that's when you're
• 37:54
  Speaker 5: actually telling me I'm not a brother.
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 37:57
  Speaker 5: That's when you're telling me that you don't respect. When
• 38:00
  Speaker 5: this white professor over here can't get away with deviating
• 38:06
  Speaker 5: from the truth. But I can get away with deviating
• 38:10
  Speaker 5: from the truth. And it's because I'm black that you're
• 38:13
  Speaker 5: saying you don't have the same expectation of me. And
• 38:18
  Speaker 5: there's that soft bigotry of low expectations. And it's so
• 38:23
  Speaker 5: ironic that that this was happening in a number of instances.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: I can't get away from the fact that the title
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: of your book, it just shines a light exactly where
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: it needs to be shined on the fact that there
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: are fault lines among evangelicals, and you're going to stand
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: on one.
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: Side or the other.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: You can't play the middle. You can't not choose sides
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: because these ideologies have permeated our culture. They are coming
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: into our churches and evangelical institutions, and either you're going
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: to stand against them Or even if you're not promoting them,
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: you're going to be complicit in allowing them to come.
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: And that's been made.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: Crystal clear to me, and I'm just compelled. I mean,
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: I look at my grandkids, and I think, you know,
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: I don't want to die without having tried to do
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: what I can do to sound the alarm, to stand
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: against this, to refute these pagan ideas that are contrary
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: to the gospel of Jesus. And if they come into
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: our institutions and our churches, to say to those who
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: are complicit in allowing them to do so, look, we're
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: not on the same team. We're not practicing the same religion.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: And I love you. I wish you would repent. If
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: you refuse to repent, we can't walk together.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: That's exactly right. And it's for that reason. You need
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: to go and buy this book, Fault Lines by Votie Baucom.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: And we have the joy of giving away a few copies.
• 39:45
  Speaker 5: That's right.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: We're going to give away three.
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: Let's do three copies.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Three copies. And to enter in to get one of
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: those copies that we're giving away, you've got to like, share.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Share with what do you need to say with it?
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: I'll just say this is a great book. And every
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: Christian ought to read it.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: Best book I haven't yet read.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: Or something like that.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: I know it's good. Just name the book.
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: Everybody loves this book. I'm going to read it one
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: day if I get a free copy.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Say something like that. Tag founders so we know we're
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: going to be sending.
• 40:12
  Speaker 5: You got to pass the bill.
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: And hey, the more you share, the more you retweet,
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: the more you like, the more you pass it around,
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: the more opportunity you'll have to be drawn when we
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: get all those names together. And we're going to give
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: away three of these books. And it's a dynamite book.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: It's on the bestseller list. We hope it goes all
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: the way to number one, despite the efforts of some
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: to keep it hidden in the back rooms of their bookstores.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: That's right. That's right.
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: Vody.
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: Thanks, brother.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: It's been so great to see you, brother. We are
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: continuing to pray for you as you recover and rejoicing
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: at God's grace and how he's worked over these past months.
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And we look forward to hearing more.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: This whole story I've told lots of people, there's an
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: incredible story of God's providence behind all that happened beginning back,
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: even in the latter part of 2020 to bring you
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: to where you are today, health wise and what God's done.
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: So man, I know you're taking notes. So get ready
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: to tell that story at the right time. Yeah.
• 41:13
  Speaker 5: And also let me, I just have to say thank
• 41:15
  Speaker 5: you to you, Tom and the founders for everything you
• 41:18
  Speaker 5: guys did, um, on our behalf to support us and
• 41:24
  Speaker 5: to raise funds for us and to get people updates
• 41:28
  Speaker 5: for us. I mean, brother, you will just never know
• 41:31
  Speaker 5: how much that meant to me and to my family,
• 41:34
  Speaker 5: this side of glory. And on behalf of all of us,
• 41:40
  Speaker 5: I just want to publicly just say we are grateful.
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: Well, love you, brother. Love you.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: Amen. Hey, before we go, Vody, we would love to
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: keep you around and what we have the armory for
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: those who are part of our Founders Alliance membership. We
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: have resources there in the armory, a continual growing set
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: of resources. We want you to stick around if you're
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: up for that. I mean, about five minutes. Let's just
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: press into what are the next steps, particularly for evangelical
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: leadership as it regards this fault line. Is that cool?
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: You stay around for five minutes.
• 42:11
  Speaker 5: Yes, sir.
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: Okay. All right.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to The Sword in the
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: Trial today. Until next week, follow the Lord Jesus Christ
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: with all your heart.