Latest / GlowInto / Being Ghosted...Among the Living
Transcript
- Jen: Welcome to the Glow and Two podcast, featuring real women, real stories, and wisdom for what's next. I'm your host, Jen Joyner, and here we explore the experiences, relationships, and possibilities shaping life after 40. This is our Glow and Tell series where MidwestMom3: . Jen: we bring women together for honest conversations, different perspectives, and a little laughter along the way. Tonight we're kicking off our first Halloween conversation with a different kind of ghost story, being ghosted. Among the living. The Urban Dictionary describes ghosting as the shutdown or ceasing of communication with someone without notice. I describe it as just plain rude. Someone stops responding and you're left wondering what happened. And it doesn't just happen in dating, it can happen professionally, in relationships, and even with family. Joining me tonight is Amanda, a 47-year-old teacher, wife, and a mom to a teenager and college student, plus a bonus child, rounding out her family. Annette is a 45-year-old professional, married, and shares her home with her husband and her furry baby. Welcome, ladies. MidwestMom3: Hello. Annette Anderson: I Jen: I think a lot of us have experienced being ghosted, and many of us have probably done it ourselves. I'll admit I have. I do it a lot less now because I don't like how it feels, and I don't like to be on the receiving end. So Amanda, I'm going to start with you. Can you remember a time when you were ghosted? What happened? How long did it take you before you realized you were being ghosted? And how did it make you feel? MidwestMom3: So I can think of a time in particular about two years ago, I was working with a woman that owned a company that created different types of lanyards. And I had ordered two lanyards from her and had a successful transaction, went to her home to pick up the lanyard, was very happy with the product. And since I was wearing them, of course, other people that I was working with wanted also to order the lanyards. So I communicated with her about that and she was very excited to fulfill those orders. And then all of sudden, nothing. Two weeks go by and I messenger again and I said, hey, just wondering everything is okay. You know, if you were able to complete the order. You know, the teachers are excited about their lanyards. I can tell that she read the message on Messenger, but she never responded. So it just, you know, I don't understand why or if there was a personal issue, but it didn't make me feel like it was communicated well if there was a reason or something happening. And she just completely didn't answer me. I waited and waited and I really thought maybe she would get back to me at a later time, but she never did. Jen: Did you pay any money? MidwestMom3: No, I didn't. I only had paid for the first transaction you pay upon pickup. it just was a very strange thing that happened and I don't think I would have been ghosted by a business before, but that was the first time it had ever happened to me. Jen: Can you see if she's still making them or if she's still active? MidwestMom3: Yes, she's still active, her age's business is still going, and she's still making them. And sometimes I go back to Messenger just to double check myself to see if it was read and all messages were read and just never answered. Jen: that is so frustrating. And I, you know, and I'm not gonna make excuses for her. I mean, there could have been a million things that happened, but you're right. It just takes a simple, I'm overwhelmed. There was a death in the family. I've been ill. It takes a simple response because it's better than nothing. And that's why I wanted to talk about ghosting because I think there is a real disconnect in our communication. And I think that sometimes now with technology, we've made it almost easier. And that sounds strange because you think, it's so easy to get a hold of people now, right? Because we've got so many different ways we can be connected, but it is almost worse because now we really know when we're being ghosted, because we can see like red text messages. MidwestMom3: Thank you. Jen: And we know that the emails come through. So it's almost worse for me, I think. MidwestMom3: I agree. It is absolutely worse because I knew that she read it and I knew she saw it and I did give her grace thinking, you know, sometimes you do read a message and you can't get back right away. I thought, well, she'll get back to me later. Maybe she has something going on and just nothing for months. It's been years now, but like I said, her business still going, she's still fulfilling orders and never heard back from her. Jen: Wow. That's you know, and and I think that happens a lot with makers, unfortunately. makers and creators like that. And I don't think they realize the damage they do to themselves by doing that. You know, that who wants to buy from them again and and if you ever received anything with her tag on it, you're probably gonna be pretty quick to say, I know who that was, right? So I don't think it's smart to do. MidwestMom3: Correct. was gonna say I had 10 orders. That was a crazy thing. It was a big order. Jen: Yes. Yeah, there really was no reason it's not like it would there was just one order. Ten orders is a s a substantial order. So you would you would think that would have had some priority. Yeah. MidwestMom3: Mm-hmm. Jen: Annette, what about you? can you remember a time when you were ghosted and how you handled it? Annette Anderson: Yeah, there've probably been multiple occasions, honestly. And just listening to Amanda's story, I recall the situation when I was preparing for my wedding and looking for different florists to work with, to arrange this bouquet I had in mind. And I went to a local florist right up the road from where I lived in Fairview, and we talked through all of the colors and the design and the style I wanted and everything. And she was gonna get back to me with a quote and that just never happened. And so I mean short and sweet, but kind of moved on from that, found another florist that I preferred to work with. And she made my flower arrangement perfectly. So you know sometimes these things they happen and it ends up being for the better. similar in friendships and Jen: Mm-hmm. Annette Anderson: family and other things like that, MidwestMom3: . Annette Anderson: you know, you send out an invite or don't hear back from certain family members perhaps. And you know sometimes it's not for a bad thing, but it is rude and considerate. I certainly don't want to be treated that way. So I I try not to do that. Jen: Mm-hmm. Annette Anderson: And same with, you know, even in the job force and looking for a job and You know, you communicate with some recruiters, think things go well, and then just never hear back, which is very frustrating if you're trying to find something. so yeah, I think it happens quite a bit, honestly. And I've been guilty of Jen: Yeah. Annette Anderson: it too, I'm sure. But I try not to do that, especially Jen: Mm. Annette Anderson: now. Jen: Yeah, sometimes the hardest part is the guessing. You don't know whether someone is upset, overwhelmed, uninterested, Annette Anderson: Mm-hmm. Jen: or they're just done with it. And you're trying to make sense of something without having really enough information. So Amanda, which do you think is worse being ghosted romantically, professionally, or by a friend or family member? MidwestMom3: I think a friend or family member would be the worst because you have the strongest lifelong connection with them. know, I personally have never been ghosted romantically, but I have experience being ghosted. by a friend and it's very hurtful and you don't understand and you start to guess, what did I do wrong? Should I have done something differently? And no one responds and no one lets you know and you can't have an open, honest adult conversation. I mean, we are women that are not children and you would think that Jen: Mm-hmm. MidwestMom3: you could have an open, honest conversation with someone. But unfortunately, when I was ghosted, this person didn't didn't respond and I never knew what went wrong and I never knew why she was upset. Jen: Yeah. And now why do you think people ghost? Annette Anderson: Hm. I think it depends on the situation, right? Like sometimes it's more uncomfortable to have the conversation with the person than it is to just Jen: Uh-huh. Annette Anderson: drop and move on, perhaps. that's my assumption. Jen: Yeah, you think it's just the whole avoiding conflict? Annette Anderson: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that could be for some people and some people it's just I don't know. They're just mean, I guess. Jen: I don't know, do you think do you think it's harder if they're trying to spare your fe feelings? You know, doesn't that silence hurt a little more, I think? Annette Anderson: Yeah. Maybe they're not thinking about it that way. Jen: Yeah, I'm honestly trying to understand it because I find it insensitive and really a little immature when someone disappears instead of just having a conversation. And I wonder if sometimes people are so focused on avoiding their own discomfort that they don't think about the uncertainty it leaves for the other person. And I wonder where empathy comes into it. So if MidwestMom3: . Okay. Jen: You know how being ghosted feels. Does that make you less likely to do it? or can you understand the hurt it causes and still avoid the conversation? So I I think because for me, I do know how it feels. I find at this age that I do it, I mean, little to none. If I certainly if I've done it, there probably was a real reason that I thought it was the best course of action, right? Annette Anderson: Mm. MidwestMom3: I completely agree. I don't do that to people because I figure that I owe them the benefit of the doubt and I owe them Jen: Mm-hmm. MidwestMom3: an explanation because we are adults and I feel like you should be able to have an adult conversation with someone and explain how you feel. And if you don't wanna continue talking to them after that, then you can just tell them I'm done with the conversation versus, you know, I feel it's childish to go someone. and just kind of feel like you're stomping your feet and saying, refuse to respond or refuse to talk to you again. Jen: We're going to take a quick break and when we come back, we'll talk about being ghosted in your 20s versus your 40s and beyond. Has how we handled it changed or do we just have a little more patience for it now? We'll also get into being ghosted professionally. And we'll wrap up with this. What would you tell a woman who's being ghosted right now? Stay with us. There's more glow and tell coming up. True North Boutique and MedSpa is celebrating its grand opening Saturday, October 24th, in downtown Wood River, Illinois. Founder and owner, Mandy Clark, wanted the day to be about so much more than opening her own doors. True North was built around uplifting women, offering a size-inclusive boutique and med spa services designed to build confidence and help every woman. Feel her best. Mandy is bringing the community together to celebrate and shine a spotlight on other local women known businesses too. The celebration kicks off at 11 a.m. with a ribbon cutting, followed by She Means Business Market, featured women owned businesses, live music, giveaways, food specials, and more. Come celebrate the opening of True North while supporting the incredible women building businesses right here in our community. Coming up next on the Glow In Two podcast, Marianne Moore, The Life Between the Lines. At 63, Marianne says, I'm not done, not even close to done. From finding her place in culinary school to becoming the editor of St. Louis Bride magazine, Marianne's story explores the connections we discover when we look back and the possibilities ahead when we begin making room for ourselves. We'll share her journey through career changes, caring for her health. Finding a deeper connection through yoga and embracing life aboard a boat fittingly named No Regrets. Listen Thursday, october twenty second, and read her full story Friday, october twenty third at glowin' two dot com. So how did you handle being ghosts in your twenties versus how you handle it now? Either one of you can answer. MidwestMom3: Very differently. I think in Jen: Right. MidwestMom3: your yeah in your 20s, you know You might get really mad and fly off the handle and take you Jen: Mm-hmm. MidwestMom3: know Take it very personally and you know, tell all your friends and you know kind Jen: Mm-hmm. MidwestMom3: of bounce off conversations with them Versus now I just tell myself well, you know, they're rude. They're immature They obviously, you know don't know how to communicate with someone and I just need to move on Annette Anderson: Yep. I agree. Jen: Do you think you chased the answer more when you were younger? MidwestMom3: I think so, yeah. I think that you definitely want to know why and it burns at you to get that answer of why they're Jen: Mm-hmm. MidwestMom3: doing it. And you seek it out and maybe you even called them or tried to contact them or went to their house when you were young and asking why, why is this happening versus when you're an adult. Jen: Right. MidwestMom3: You wouldn't really take those steps because you just say to yourself, well, they're done. I guess I'm done. Annette Anderson: Mm-hmm. Jen: Yeah, do you think we have a little bit more patience for the answer now? MidwestMom3: Yeah, I do. Annette Anderson: I do. MidwestMom3: I think I have. Mm-hmm. Jen: So most of the ghosting MidwestMom3: I think I have. Jen: that I deal with these days happens professionally in sales because some t I spend all this MidwestMom3: and Jen: time helping someone, discussing their project, putting together a proposal. And sometimes I can't even get a confirmation that they've received it. And I explain ahead of time. I I try to be thoughtful and to not put them on the spot. So I'll explain ahead of time. Just let me know you receive the proposal. And when you decide it's okay to tell me yes or no. I won't keep bothering Annette Anderson: Mm-hmm. Jen: you. I think that I do that just to try to make it a little easier for them. And then sometimes even after that conversation, they still disappear. And I've tried read receipts, I've emailed, texted, called, and I feel like I've made it as easy as possible to answer. And I still won't get one. And that aggravates me because let me close the loop and just move on. Right? I mean, I it's just really that easy. MidwestMom3: No, I completely agree because professionally as well, I've sent emails for different reasons and will hear nothing back, absolutely no answer. And then when I do have to further communicate sometimes, then it's like, well, it was just understood that I read it. When Jen: Yeah. MidwestMom3: to me, I feel like a simple, OK, or thanks, or thank you for letting me know the information. And even in text, I feel like you could say something or like it, give it a thumbs up. Hey, I saw Jen: Mm-hmm. MidwestMom3: it. I'm not ignoring Annette Anderson: Mm-hmm. MidwestMom3: it. You know, even if it's a day later, yeah, they saw it. They had time, you know, and they just gave a thumbs up. But, you know, I get it because it's frustrating and I can see how in sales that would be extremely frustrating because you don't Jen: Mm-hmm. MidwestMom3: know if you're moving forward with this client. and you don't know if you should be preparing for further, you know, things down the line, but yeah, I just completely agree with you. It is very, very frustrating. Jen: Well, and I don't care about like if somebody just uses K. That's always a joke that that and the thumbs up is the most bare bones response. But honestly, a response is a response. And we're all busy. We don't know, that's the thing about cell phones. We don't know what the other person has got going on in that moment of time. So I think it's it some response is better than no response in my mind. And Annette Anderson: Yeah. Jen: I am never offended if somebody just gives me the thumbs up or say, got it. That's that's it. That's all I need. Because I'm very busy and it's it's okay. I can just move on with my time. But it is aggravating if I've spent time at your house, you know, 45 minutes to an hour talking to you, getting to know you, talking about your your job and and your wishes and answering as much as I can answer. And then I write you the proposal and you can't be bothered to answer. That's just so strange to me. how that happens, but it it does and and honestly I don't find it specific to one generation or to men or women. In my experience Annette Anderson: Mm-hmm. Jen: it's a person by person basis. MidwestMom3: And to me, that's so personal that you went to their home, that you had like this personal conversation Jen: I know. MidwestMom3: with them. And, you know, maybe you talked about Annette Anderson: That's a lot of work. MidwestMom3: other things other than flooring or... Jen: Mm-hmm. MidwestMom3: Yeah, I mean, that's crazy to me. I would never, if I had some of my home and I had them doing things like that, I would at least give them an email and say, hey, I've Jen: Mm-hmm. MidwestMom3: decided to put this on hold for now for whatever reason. And I think... People don't want to tell you why. Maybe they didn't have the money and they feel embarrassed, you know, they don't have to say that. They could literally say anything. Like, thanks for your time. Jen: Right. MidwestMom3: I think I'm gonna pause on this. You know, don't have to go in with your life story. Jen: Yeah. They don't. And it and I don't think they understand that, you know, that's enough of a response. Now I'm sure there's salesmen that do harass people. And they if they've ever felt that that is some of what's happening, I I can understand that. You know, there are pushy salesmen. I get it. And you know, and also on the flip side of that, I've also had people come to the home, like s you know, for services and talk to me and say, they're gonna get back to Me and then they never answer me. Business partners with our store, people that we knew and we do business with, that I'd reached out to, said, Okay, now I need something for myself. Thinking, this is gonna be really easy because I do business with them all the time. And then they ghost me. And I can't believe it because I think I talk to you all the time. Aren't you gonna find that a little weird that you've done that to me? But it happens. Mm-hmm. Yeah. MidwestMom3: Right? It would be extremely awkward. Annette Anderson: Mm-hmm. MidwestMom3: Yeah, I mean, like I said, I've had some, some role things like happen to me Jen: Mm-hmm. MidwestMom3: in my career, where you're going to be talking to me in the future, we have to work together in the future. So, you know, we're just going to pretend that we never talked about that, or we never made an Jen: Uh-huh. MidwestMom3: agreement. And that's weird. That's very strange to me. And then, you know, what Jen: Mm-hmm. MidwestMom3: am I supposed to do with that? That's just, it makes it awkward. Jen: Yep. Now, I mean, honestly, there's there's a difference between forgetting and ghosting. So I mean, I we all give each other hopefully a little bit of grace with this. So, you know, and where do you draw the line between being ghosted and someone simply forgetting to respond? Do you do you have a guideline in your in your head for how much time has passed? Annette Anderson: I guess it depends on the person if I know, you know, if they're busy and what's going on, things going on and stuff. And if that's a case and I'm close enough with them, I'll send a simple follow up and just see if I can't get them in to engage and maybe they did forget and if they did, then they typically respond. if you do that and you hear nothing back, well then you might be looking at a situation where they've ghosted you and typically I would just Move on from that. Jen: How do you think you've changed between your twenties and forties as far as being ghosted? Annette Anderson: pretty similar to Amanda. I think I took it more personally in my twenties and maybe part of my thirties and then forties and I yeah, I definitely don't have the same reaction. 'Cause if they're not wanting to engage or respond for whatever reason, well then I just move on. Jen: Right. I mean, I think I'm MidwestMom3: Thank Jen: also realizing that I can make it easy for someone to answer, but I can't make them respond. Right. That's definitely something I've learned. So at some point Annette Anderson: Yep. Yeah, agreed. Mm-hmm. Jen: I have to decide when I'm finished following up, even if I never get the explanation I wanted. Right. Because there's nothing worse than that feeling of chasing someone. And Annette Anderson: Yeah. Jen: I you know, I we've all done that in romantic relationships and friendships. So it it's funny how much more I did that for those things. But in a professional aspect, I'm like, no, I'm done. I can I can shut it down fast. MidwestMom3: It's soup. Jen: But when it came to personal things like that, I would just keep pushing and pushing and pushing. I don't know if it's that I don't know, like that need to be liked or something that I had. in my twenties that made me do that. But now for some reason in in my f well, my fifties, right? when I do it professionally, if somebody does it to me, I'm yeah, I can let it go pretty fast. I usually have Annette Anderson: Mm-hmm. Jen: a rule of a one follow up. So I'll do the one follow up and if you answer me, then I will follow up one more time because, you know, you've given me something to go off of, you know. Annette Anderson: Mm-hmm. Jen: This is past the thumbs up of the K. So they've given me an actual response. And so then I'll follow up one more time to that. And then if I don't hear from you after that, I'm totally done. I just like I said I'm busy and I don't have the time to chase clients. you know, as much as much as I'd I'd like to. I just can't do it. So I do think that, you know, if I was gonna tell a a younger person now. anything about ghosting, I would probably say have some self-respect because because we we now we can see it, right? So now I would tell her, especially if it was romantic, you know, or even just even Annette Anderson: Yeah. Jen: a girlfriend, I would say, it's not worth it, I promise you. It feels so important right now, but you're gonna realize that you're better off just to let them alone. You know, it's the whole rule of, you know, I don't chase, I attract. Right? MidwestMom3: Right. Annette Anderson: Yeah. Jen: So I I think that that's definitely what I would tell my younger self as far as ghosting. And I would also tell younger people now is that it it's it's best if you can to try not to chase and to let it go. What would you tell your younger self? Anyone can answer? MidwestMom3: I would tell my younger self not to take it personally as well. I Jen: Mm-hmm. MidwestMom3: know that's hard. It's hard when you're younger, I feel like. When you're younger, know, personally, you don't have your emotions as in check as you do when you're older. I feel like I'm better at managing, you know, these types of feelings than I was when I was younger. So it is hard to say that to someone, but also at the same time, you know, know your worth, know that you are worth someone responding to and that you don't need to chase anyone, that if someone wants to be your friend, romantic or a friendship, that they will engage with you. And if it's not important to them, then it shouldn't be important to you. Annette Anderson: Yep. Agreed. Jen: I agree. Yeah, and I I wish I could say that I hadn't been ghosted in a long time because I still have been ghosted recently in a personal situation, which surprises me at this age. you know, work I I've learned to expect it unfortunately, in sales because it just kinda comes with the job, but I still had it happen personally, not that long ago. And again, I can see that they've read the messages, right? So MidwestMom3: Mm-hmm. Annette Anderson: Yeah. Jen: You know, I mean what do you what do you do with that? And I I think, how are they gonna feel when we run into each other? Right? Annette Anderson: Yeah. Jen: Because MidwestMom3: Right? Jen: it's gonna happen. It's it's not a it's not that big of an area. You will run into people again. Annette Anderson: Mm-hmm. MidwestMom3: Yeah, and it makes it awkward where if they didn't really want to keep engaging with you, you know, they could have just said, hey, you know, I'm really busy. I'll get back to you when I have time. Jen: But then MidwestMom3: You know, something along those lines, at least then you would know, okay, they're kind of drawing the line in the sand, you know, they have too much going on or they're not interested and. You might have a few moments of being confused or hurt about it, but you could move on. At least they told me that's probably what I would tell myself. Well, at least Jen: Mm-hmm. MidwestMom3: this person let me know they're either real busy or they really don't want to talk to me instead of just completely not answering you. And like you said, you just never know who you know that's the same, especially in this area. it always, yeah. Jen: Mm-hmm. Same circle, yes. MidwestMom3: And it always comes down the line too. It might be a couple years later. And then someone will say, I know this person. You're like, Jen: Mm-hmm. MidwestMom3: I know them too. Or I've heard of this, you know. It comes back. Things come back. And even in jobs, you you work somewhere, well, then, you know, a family member of them gets hired or they get hired. And you're like, then you got to deal with that. So I always say, you know, don't, don't bite the hand of people in this area because you will end up knowing somebody they know or know somebody they're related to. Jen: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, case in point, you know, you you just brought up an example from years ago of a woman that you did business with, and I'm sure you still remember her name. So, you know, that's that's the thing. I mean, she's out there doing business and now you're gonna remember if somebody ever gives you another lanyard or something and they say this is from A, B, and C company, you're gonna say, yeah. I had an experience with them. MidwestMom3: Exactly. And that's not good. Jen: You know, that's yeah. Annette Anderson: Yeah. MidwestMom3: It's not good business for them because maybe someone Jen: Mm-hmm. MidwestMom3: else was going to have 10 orders with them and they're like, well, I don't want that. You know, what if I ordered all those and she just didn't answer Jen: Mm-hmm. MidwestMom3: me? You know, Annette Anderson: no. MidwestMom3: I'm going to go with somebody else, you know? And now I do have a lady that I use for custom laniers and that I've recommended to several other people that they've ordered from. So I'm not going to give that recommendation. Annette Anderson: Mm-hmm. MidwestMom3: where teachers love to buy stuff. We're Jen: Yeah. MidwestMom3: the biggest shoppers and we love to be matching and coordinated and holidays. mean, this could have been good business for her and then word of mouth, another school hears about it. You just don't want to burn your bridges when you're a small business owner, Jen: Mm-hmm. MidwestMom3: but teach their own. Jen: Right. I mean, and Anetta brought up a good example earlier when you talked about it in the professional aspect of like trying to get a job. Right. So Annette Anderson: Yeah. Jen: that that's one of the the biggest things that happens a lot now, especially with the introduction of AI and them scanning resumes. But also Annette Anderson: Mm-hmm. Yep. Jen: but also just people applying for things and then doing an interview or two and then they They, you know, get hopeful because the employer says, you know, yeah, we really enjoyed talking to you and we'll be in touch with you. And then nothing. And I think that that should be a crime for employers to interview people and to never send them an email that says, you know, we went another direction. We found another candidate. Thank you for your time. That happens so much. And again, it Annette Anderson: It does. Jen: is a reputation thing because You are gonna say, yeah, I applied for them and I never heard from them and they seemed really interested. So it's also Annette Anderson: Mm-hmm. Jen: their reputation as well. And we're gonna start reaching a point, I think, in business and the way that people find jobs and go for things because you know, with it being so watered down now, like I said, with some with some AI models running through resumes, a lot of it's going MidwestMom3: Okay. Jen: to be who do you know? More than ever. And I think that that's going to follow people if they're not careful. And that's why some people just like to go through a recruiter if they can, because they don't want to deal with the constant application and then just having these little tidbits of hope that they think they're going to get a job MidwestMom3: Okay. Annette Anderson: Yeah. Jen: and then they don't. Annette Anderson: Yep. The competition Jen: So Annette Anderson: is stiff right now too. Jen: It is and I think unfortunately a lot of that is just like I said, it's getting the resumes are getting scanned. And I think they're looking Annette Anderson: Mm-hmm. Jen: for just keywords and it's gonna be all about how you play the game. Yeah. So Annette Anderson: yeah. Jen: that's why sometimes like I said, re a recruiter can be your your best bet right now. 'cause I don't wanna mindlessly apply for anything anymore. That's not gonna be me anymore. I can't do it. Especially like I said, and how people are getting jobs, so MidwestMom3: Okay. Jen: Well, I would say before we wrap up, if if there was one thing you would wish someone would say instead of disappearing, what would you what would you want them to say? What would we teach the ghosters? MidwestMom3: Yeah, so I would say that if it's professionally, you just need to say, know, thank you. I think I'm going to hold back for a moment. and think about this and I'll reach out to you if I would like to pursue this further. Just a simple little thanks for your time and I think that I'm gonna think about this for a while. I'll let you know. I'll reach out to you. It's just something that says, I'm acknowledging you came to my house in your instance. We had long conversations. We were friendly with each other, but you know, maybe I have a personal reason now why I can't continue forward with it. And then I would say personally that if you're both adults, then you should just simply have a conversation and say, I think that I have a lot going on right now and I'm not going to be able to keep up with, you know, this friendship, but I enjoyed our time and I'll let you know if I have more time available. And just kind of keep the door closed that way. If Jen: Mm-hmm. MidwestMom3: you ghost them, you know, we talked about all the dominoes that fall after that. And if you don't wanna even say that, you can just say, hey, I'm really busy right now. I'll get back to you whenever I do have time. Something, anything, better than nothing. Annette Anderson: Yeah, I think a simple a simple response in general of any kind Mm-hmm. MidwestMom3: and most people could catch the hint too. People are not dumb. You get a text like that, you're like, But at least you got the hint. Jen: Right. so for either of you, what would you tell the woman listening right now who's being ghosted and wondering what she did wrong? Annette Anderson: Not personal. It's on the person that is doing the ghosting. Their issue. MidwestMom3: Yeah, I similarly Jen: Okay. MidwestMom3: would say, it's not you, it's them. And to remember to know your worth. Jen: Right. And I think that's a MidwestMom3: It's not, yeah. Jen: I think that's a good way to leave it as for you to know your worth. You're right about that. Yep. Well, Amanda and Annette, I thank you so much for sharing your experiences and talking honestly about this. And to everyone listening, maybe tonight's conversation brings someone to mind. Maybe you're waiting for an answer, or maybe there's a message you've been avoiding. And if it's safe and appropriate to respond, a little honesty can save someone a lot of guessing. This has been Glow and Tell, and these are the women of Glow and Two. And until next time, keep glowing and to who you were always meant to be. Coming up next on Glow and Tell, our next Halloween conversation, being a witch and setting boundaries in midlife. Why does saying no sometimes earn us a label? We're talking about protecting our time, speaking of ourselves, and how setting boundaries changes as we get older. I'm looking for a couple of women willing to share their experiences. Have you gotten more comfortable saying no, or are you still working through the guilt? If you'd like to join the conversation, Reach out to Jennifer Joyner through glowinto dot com. Let's talk about boundaries on Glow and Tell.