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US Army Combat Vet: PTSD Expert: Federal Prison, The Jeremy Harrell Story · Nightmare Success In and Out

• 0:01
  What happens when your worst fear becomes your reality?
• 0:04
  Hi, I'm Brent Cassidy, welcome to the Nightmare Success In and
• 0:08
  Out podcast where we explore how to overcome your fears and
• 0:11
  nightmares that set yourself free.
• 0:13
  We're going to be exploring this topic with guys that was in
• 0:16
  Leavenworth with and others who survived their own nightmare.
• 0:20
  These stories can be inspiring, sometimes sad.
• 0:24
  There's some humor, but hopefully you can come away with
• 0:27
  a nugget of something that'll help you knock down some of the
• 0:29
  prisons you built up in your own mind.
• 0:34
  All right, welcome back nightmare success in and out
• 0:36
  listeners, this is where you come from.
• 0:38
  What happens when your worst fear becomes your reality?
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  How do you adapt, survive, overcome, set yourself free and
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  and don't forget to follow. Subscribe, share this thing out.
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  Share this thing out if you like it, share it helps the show.
• 0:51
  OK, folks, I, I got to tell you, I have a wild, wacky,
• 0:56
  unbelievable story here with my good buddy Jeremy Harrell, who
• 1:02
  I've been talking to for a while now and I've been very excited
• 1:07
  to interview him. We're, we're doing this, we're
• 1:10
  recording this the day after veteran's day, which is very
• 1:13
  appropriate because Jeremy is a veteran and has quite a story.
• 1:20
  And I want to, I want to just give you a little rundown on
• 1:25
  Jeremy Harrell. And when I say he has a wild,
• 1:29
  wacky story. When you guys hear this story,
• 1:33
  we're going to release this after December 8th because
• 1:35
  Jeremy's got a situation where he took his his his case to
• 1:39
  trial. He gets sentenced I think on
• 1:42
  December 8th and then we're going to release it after that.
• 1:45
  But this is a guy that does great work.
• 1:48
  He has served his country. When I say he served his
• 1:51
  country, he is a U.S. Army combat veteran who served
• 1:55
  in Operation Iraqi Freedom and the Global War on Terrorism.
• 2:00
  Jerry served honorably for nine years.
• 2:03
  Jeremy went on to become involved in operations
• 2:06
  management with companies such as UPS.
• 2:08
  In 2017, Jeremy founded Veterans Club, Inc, which is a premier
• 2:14
  nonprofit that assists veterans and healing from PTSD substance
• 2:19
  abuse. He also assisted homeless
• 2:21
  veterans with housing and programs to get them back on
• 2:24
  their feet. Jeremy's organization is
• 2:28
  nationally recognized and he, he's also got this thing that he
• 2:33
  did with the homeless veterans was the tiny home community for
• 2:36
  homeless veterans. I I don't know if there's any of
• 2:38
  it of its kind, but it's the first I had read about in
• 2:41
  Kentucky. And you might have seen Jeremy
• 2:45
  on a lot of different programs on TV.
• 2:48
  He's talking about veterans issues, social issues, PTSD,
• 2:53
  homelessness, suicide prevention, foreign policy.
• 2:56
  You see him on Fox and CNN History Channel, all kinds all
• 3:01
  over the place. This guy is doing good work in
• 3:04
  the midst of all the stuff that was going on with this crazy
• 3:06
  thing. And when I say this is a crazy
• 3:09
  thing, I'm just going to let you know a little bit about it just
• 3:12
  right now. So Jeremy founded this this non
• 3:16
  profit in 2011. He was diagnosed, as many men
• 3:22
  have been who've been in the Iraqi war and and other wars in
• 3:27
  Afghanistan with PTSD. It's a mental health disorder.
• 3:31
  So Jeremy, in 2017, to help himself help other people with
• 3:37
  PTSD, he founded an organization that did just that.
• 3:41
  It it, it, it got veterans together to talk about their
• 3:44
  problems. They had a horse program that
• 3:46
  did people to be able to connect and get over some of their PTSD
• 3:49
  with a connection with the horses.
• 3:52
  Very good stuff. Families would come together,
• 3:55
  they'd meet at coffee shops. It was, it was if you read about
• 3:58
  this and you can read about this online, this is really good
• 4:01
  stuff. And somebody comes along and
• 4:03
  says, no, if he can do all that, then he's not disabled.
• 4:07
  Jeremy's not disabled. Now he could go have a job, but
• 4:10
  he can't volunteer and do 6080 hours a week.
• 4:13
  The, the he, he's, he's taking money that he shouldn't be
• 4:16
  taking. And we're talking about $100,000
• 4:18
  / 13 years. And he could have earned a lot
• 4:21
  more money doing it some other way.
• 4:23
  This is a crazy story. And this guy who is a a guy that
• 4:29
  should be thanked for his service as a veteran who should
• 4:33
  be thanked for doing the service he's doing for veterans, is
• 4:36
  being persecuted by our own government.
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  I find it absolutely flabbergasting.
• 4:42
  I can't wait to jump into all this for you guys to get to know
• 4:45
  Jeremy because he's a super guy and I hate that he's having to
• 4:48
  go through all this. Before we do, I want to
• 4:50
  recognize Auto Plaza Direct. I don't think anybody likes
• 4:54
  spending a couple of weekends walking car lots looking for a
• 4:57
  car. Then you spend four or five
• 4:58
  hours in the dealership to buy a car.
• 5:00
  It's kind of like a root canal appointment.
• 5:01
  Well, there's a better way to take away all that pain and
• 5:04
  hassle getting a car. It's called Auto Plaza Direct.
• 5:06
  They're your personal car concierge.
• 5:08
  Just tell them the car you want, what you can pay, and they'll go
• 5:10
  find that car for you. They'll negotiate your best
• 5:13
  price. They take all the hassle out of
• 5:14
  it. They also offer you warranties
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  and financing. It's all full service.
• 5:17
  Go to autoplazadirect.com to get started with your personal car
• 5:21
  concierge. The new hassle freeway, the car
• 5:23
  buying experience you deserve. Auto Plaza Direct telling Brent
• 5:26
  from Nightmare Success sent you. Jeremy Harrell.
• 5:29
  Welcome in my man. How are you?
• 5:31
  I'm doing all right. Thank you for thank you for
• 5:33
  having me. I'm looking forward to having in
• 5:35
  this conversation with you. I have two, Jeremy, you and I
• 5:37
  have had multiple conversations. I, I think the world of you, I
• 5:40
  think this is one of those stories that makes you just do
• 5:46
  black backflips to understand why in the world our government
• 5:50
  would be spending money on somebody who's out there helping
• 5:53
  the community, who is a war veteran who has suffered through
• 5:56
  a PTSD, who is helping himself and the community get out of
• 6:00
  PTSD. And then you've got somebody
• 6:02
  that comes against you and it's like, you know, one of those
• 6:06
  Shih Tzu's on your, on your Achilles.
• 6:09
  It just won't let go. How are you?
• 6:11
  How you've been getting through all this?
• 6:14
  Well, you know, I believe in full transparency and you know,
• 6:17
  is, is, you know, I've had to, I've had to be resilient through
• 6:20
  this. This is really tested.
• 6:22
  My faith is tested My, my faith in this country.
• 6:25
  It's, it's made me question the, the reason for serving this
• 6:28
  country. And, and I'll tell you, one of
• 6:30
  the most, one of the most hurtful things I've ever read to
• 6:34
  date was when I saw a paper that said the United States of
• 6:38
  America versus Jeremy Wayne Harrell.
• 6:40
  And the reason why that's so sentimental and symbolic to me
• 6:44
  is because I've spent most of my adult life doing, you know?
• 6:47
  Protecting this country. Serving this country and so I
• 6:51
  just couldn't believe that that now they, they assume that I'm
• 6:54
  an enemy of the country essentially.
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  And so, you know, it's been hard to deal with, but I've had a lot
• 6:59
  of good people around me. I've I've been able to learn a
• 7:03
  lot through this process and, and I just realized that, that,
• 7:07
  that we just have to move forward, right?
• 7:08
  You have to, you know, you fight the best you can.
• 7:11
  And, and that's why I went to trial.
• 7:12
  I wanted to fight this. I know, I know the, the
• 7:14
  statistics behind going to trial, but I thought if, if any
• 7:17
  case could beat those could be part of the 2%, it would be this
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  one. But unfortunately it didn't work
• 7:22
  out that way. But we'll, we'll definitely deep
• 7:24
  dive. And I, and I want to say there,
• 7:27
  you don't have to go very far to see the amount of support that
• 7:31
  Jeremy has in the community. This is not like somebody
• 7:35
  brought something up and everybody came out of the
• 7:37
  woodworks and said, no, no, no, he's not a good guy.
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  This is somebody that has a bunch of warriors behind him
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  saying he's helped me, he's changed my life.
• 7:47
  It's been the impact that got me out of my house and into the
• 7:51
  community. And, and, and it's story after
• 7:54
  story and that, that's why I, I've been so interested in in
• 7:59
  and excited to interview you because your story needs to be
• 8:03
  out there. I, I, I want us to go back a
• 8:05
  little bit, take us back, Jeremy, because before you were
• 8:08
  ever doing all this with the Veterans club, where were you
• 8:14
  growing up? What was, what was your life
• 8:16
  like it for you as a kid? Where were you?
• 8:19
  Yeah, well, so you know, what happened to me as a child is, is
• 8:24
  kind of the the reason I am the man I am today.
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  But I, I grew up in Louisville, KY, right?
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  Louisville. Most people say, we say
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  Louisville here. Louisville.
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  Yeah, Louisville. But I, I grew up in a in a, in a
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  pretty bad environment, you know, has some domestic
• 8:39
  violence, some alcoholism, drug use, poverty, all although the
• 8:43
  perfect formula to set you up for, for failure, right.
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  And, and for some reason, though, as I was growing up,
• 8:49
  going through all that, there was something inside of me that
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  made me realize that this isn't how it's really supposed to
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  look, right? That that life really isn't
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  supposed to, to be this way. And I think I learned a lot of
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  that from my classmates in school and just just, you know,
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  people I would spend the night with, I would go to their house
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  and go, wow, this is, this is like the Taj Mahal here, right?
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  Like you're getting snacks. Nobody's hitting each other and,
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  and nobody's drunk, right? But, but, you know, I always had
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  this desire to, to use that and turn it around into something
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  positive. And so it it made me more of a
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  compassionate and empathetic individual and, and just.
• 9:24
  Because did you have siblings, Jeremy, growing up?
• 9:27
  No, it was. You.
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  It was you as a kid on your own, handling all this craziness
• 9:32
  around you. Wow.
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  Yeah. Because I've often thought, I've
• 9:36
  often thought Jeremy that when because I've interviewed a lot
• 9:39
  of people that have been in that type of situation.
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  But it seems like when they have siblings, they can let they can
• 9:44
  kind of pull together and say, I can't believe mom and dad.
• 9:47
  I can't believe this or that. And and when it's an only kid,
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  it's like you really are on an island.
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  Yeah, I mean, it makes you really have to dig deep and try
• 9:57
  to figure out how to problem solve on your own.
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  And So what that did, it's kind of a catch 22.
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  It was positive in in a lot of ways, but negative in others.
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  Is it made me grow up fast and it and you know, I, I, I don't
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  remember a lot of childhood memories.
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  I I remember trying to survive. But on the flip side, of course,
• 10:15
  down the road, it's helped in, in a, in a bunch of different
• 10:17
  ways. But but yeah, you know, growing
• 10:19
  up there, then, you know, I wanted to leave that
• 10:22
  environment. And the only way I knew I could
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  because I knew I couldn't afford college.
• 10:25
  My grades weren't as good as they should have been because I
• 10:28
  I was focusing on everything else.
• 10:30
  And so I decided to join the military and I thought, well,
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  you know, there's a bunch of benefits to that.
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  Number one, I get to go do something bigger than myself.
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  I've always been an advocate for the underdog because I've been
• 10:41
  the underdog for so long. And I thought I could, I could
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  do that. And then I can't leave if I want
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  to, right? So there's no threat of me
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  coming back into this environment.
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  And so that's what I decided to do.
• 10:52
  But just to kind of let the audience know, a couple weeks
• 10:55
  before I shipped off to boot camp, I was delivering groceries
• 10:59
  to senior living apartments when it snowed.
• 11:02
  That's kind of what my childhood created in me is that desire to
• 11:06
  want to serve others, the desire to want to help those who can't
• 11:09
  quite help themselves in a lot of ways.
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  So I am thankful for that. But that went on to the army and
• 11:14
  and and loved it. I remember getting there and
• 11:17
  there were so many people who were like, this is miserable.
• 11:21
  And I'm going, what do you mean? It's just three meals a day.
• 11:23
  I got AI got a bed to sleep in and I can shower when I need to.
• 11:27
  Like this is I mean, I've been yelling at all my life.
• 11:29
  I can handle that, right? So it was a really a different,
• 11:33
  different it. Was like a great escape for you.
• 11:35
  It absolutely was. And the, and the structure,
• 11:38
  which is usually what's hard to adapt to is something that I had
• 11:41
  been craving since a young boy because I had no structure.
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  And so I really like to know what I needed to do at 4:00
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  every day and then at 9:00 and then to get up at 4:00, right.
• 11:52
  So, so I really enjoyed it. I really thrived there.
• 11:54
  I promoted fast and and of course, you know, when 9/11
• 11:58
  happened, you know, things started to, to heat up the op
• 12:00
  tempo. The military started to increase
• 12:03
  and and went long after that. In 2003, I went over for the
• 12:07
  initial invasion of Iraq and spent 15 months in Iraq.
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  I want to, I want to talk about that because I, I haven't had
• 12:15
  the opportunity to have anybody on that that did that.
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  What, what goes through a guy's mind knowing, I mean, you knew
• 12:23
  that you were in the Army. You knew that that something
• 12:26
  could come up. I'm sure when you saw 911, you
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  knew something was going to happen.
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  What goes through your mind, though, when you go into, you
• 12:33
  know, Iraq was, you know, we all saw it on TV.
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  It was, it was from what we saw from Saddam Hussein.
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  It was, it was horrible and and dangerous and, and didn't look
• 12:45
  like that they had any mercy. What does a what does a combat
• 12:49
  guy think is he's he's he's literally going into another
• 12:53
  country to to create battle. I love, I love that question and
• 12:58
  nobody's ever asked asked me the question like that.
• 13:02
  And it's so hard to answer because there's, there's a
• 13:05
  little bit of excitement, right? As crazy as that may seem,
• 13:08
  because you train and you train and you train.
• 13:10
  This is kind of like the Super Bowl, right?
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  You go and see if all that training has paid off, but then
• 13:16
  you, you quickly understand what, what that looks like, what
• 13:19
  the ramifications of that is and that the good guys, they don't
• 13:23
  always win, right? And, and you got to realize that
• 13:25
  you're probably going to lose people.
• 13:27
  And it could be people that you've spent the last four or
• 13:29
  five years with, serving, with, living with, doing life with.
• 13:33
  And, and one thing that that you, you established really
• 13:37
  quickly is that when you're training, you're shooting at
• 13:40
  targets and these targets do not shoot back, right?
• 13:43
  And it's a whole different ball game when that, when that script
• 13:46
  flips. And, but I just remember kind of
• 13:49
  being excited and very, very nervous and scared at the same
• 13:52
  time. And, and one interesting thing,
• 13:54
  the way my childhood ties into this experience is when
• 13:59
  traumatic things happened in Iraq, Those were some of the
• 14:02
  same feelings inside of me that happened when I would see, you
• 14:06
  know, my father abuse my mother and I, I connected the two.
• 14:11
  And I thought that's when I really learned that trauma is
• 14:15
  often the same, just the details are different, right?
• 14:18
  So when people experience trauma, even if it isn't
• 14:20
  military trauma, there's all kinds of other trauma.
• 14:22
  There's some similar feelings there.
• 14:23
  And I thought, why am I thinking about that at a time like this?
• 14:27
  But it just goes to show you how that works.
• 14:29
  And, and, and it was just, it was just a surreal experience
• 14:33
  and it, and it really took, it took more than I wished it would
• 14:37
  have for me to adjust to that. And it really had to get to a
• 14:40
  place where I had to really like look in the mirror and accept
• 14:44
  that I'm probably going to die here.
• 14:47
  And then when I accepted, it is a deep thought.
• 14:50
  Oh, man, like when I, when I said that and I accepted it, I
• 14:55
  wasn't as scared anymore, right? It's almost like I thought,
• 14:59
  well, what a way to go, right? If I'm going to have to die,
• 15:02
  what better way than for my country, right?
• 15:05
  And, and I thought, what an honorable way.
• 15:07
  And so I just, I just got it over with and thought, OK, and I
• 15:10
  just didn't expect to leave Iraq.
• 15:12
  And so when that happened, I started focusing more on what we
• 15:14
  had to do. And I was less fearful and and
• 15:18
  more more motivated to kind of do what we needed to do there.
• 15:22
  Well, that's, that's, that's really interesting, Jeremy,
• 15:24
  because I mean, in, in fact, you, you basically killed
• 15:26
  yourself off in your mind and and then you felt like you
• 15:30
  didn't have anything to lose and win the battle.
• 15:32
  That's that's wow. Yeah, which is why you know,
• 15:37
  when when you see USA versus me, I go, do you know what I had to
• 15:41
  do? You know what I had to do it.
• 15:42
  I was 21 years old when I decided, hey, I'm going to die.
• 15:45
  And so especially you kind of do die to yourself.
• 15:48
  I'm I'll never be that same guy that I was before I went there.
• 15:53
  And so, you know, that's just very, very difficult thing to to
• 15:56
  deal with. Did you have like a girlfriend
• 15:59
  or anything like that that you left or what?
• 16:01
  Did you go straight into the thing and you were on your own?
• 16:05
  No, Oh well. So when I went into the
• 16:07
  military, I, I, I had a girlfriend and we were together
• 16:10
  throughout my training. But when I deployed to Iraq, I
• 16:12
  had a daughter and she was, she was just not even, not even 2
• 16:18
  years old yet. And, and, you know, I was, that
• 16:22
  was another form of pressure, right?
• 16:24
  As who's going to take care of my daughter, right.
• 16:27
  And then the fact that you, you, you know, you're going to miss
• 16:29
  so much at the beginning of their lives, you're missing
• 16:32
  certain words, you're missing certain things that they learn.
• 16:34
  And, you know, and, and of course that was very difficult.
• 16:37
  And then it's very hard on like a, a relationship with, with
• 16:40
  someone, whether you're married or you're engaged to someone,
• 16:43
  like, it's very hard on the relationship because they're,
• 16:46
  they don't know what to expect either.
• 16:48
  They don't know whether they're going to get the phone call
• 16:49
  tomorrow that you you didn't make it.
• 16:52
  And so unfortunately in that time period, you know, the
• 16:54
  relationship went S because we were just there so long when we
• 16:59
  initially left, you know, up until that point, deployments
• 17:04
  were about 6, maybe nine months long at the most.
• 17:08
  And so when we got there in March, I thought, OK, June, I'll
• 17:11
  be home, right. And then around June, you know,
• 17:14
  comes and they're like, no, we're going to, we're going to
• 17:15
  have to extend. Well, that continued to happen
• 17:18
  all the way till March of the next year or, I'm sorry, April
• 17:22
  of the next year, right? And so there's a lot of
• 17:25
  frustration there because here I have this daughter that needs
• 17:28
  her dad. And then I'm also having a
• 17:31
  relationship that's failing. And I don't know exactly how
• 17:33
  that's working out. And I'm, and I'm trying to focus
• 17:35
  on what I have to do in Iraq so that I don't get killed, right?
• 17:39
  And so it was just very difficult time of my life.
• 17:41
  Did you see that a lot, Jeremy with with guys that had
• 17:45
  relationships and then they just, it just timed out a lot of
• 17:50
  times. Yeah, yeah.
• 17:52
  I mean, I've seen that. I've seen, I've seen,
• 17:54
  unfortunately, I've seen men get mailed divorce papers.
• 17:58
  It's, it's, it's a sad thing, you know, that that was a lot
• 18:02
  of, you know, formed a lot of resentment because I'm thinking,
• 18:05
  you know, how selfish somebody could be when they're, you know,
• 18:09
  in the safety of the United States and you're, you're going
• 18:11
  to, you're going to leave or break up with or divorce your
• 18:14
  loved one who's over here can try to make sure that you
• 18:17
  continue to have that form of safety and security.
• 18:20
  It's not, you know, it's, it's not a negative thing that, that,
• 18:23
  that you're deployed. I mean, it should be something
• 18:25
  that's, that's, that you should be proud of as a spouse.
• 18:28
  You know, so I didn't understand.
• 18:29
  Of course, I was a young man. I'm going to, why wouldn't they
• 18:32
  be proud of this? But then, you know, just people
• 18:34
  are like, I'm lonely. I feel like I don't have any
• 18:37
  help. I feel like I've developed a new
• 18:38
  routine. I feel like I can do this on my
• 18:41
  own, you know, and all that kind of stuff.
• 18:42
  So it was just, it was, it was really surreal experience, yeah.
• 18:47
  So what was it like for you when you you did that and you came
• 18:51
  back into society after being in that type of situation?
• 18:57
  Man, it was, I don't know that I've 100% even transitioned to
• 19:03
  this day, right? Like it was much harder than
• 19:08
  than one could imagine. I mean, I would have like these
• 19:10
  kind of fantasies about, oh, I can't wait to get home, you
• 19:12
  know, get back in the swing of things.
• 19:14
  I'm going to put all this behind me.
• 19:15
  We're going to go on like nothing ever happened.
• 19:18
  And man, that is just not the case.
• 19:20
  And then you start, you know, you're in hell there.
• 19:23
  And so you're starting to to form your opinion on how you
• 19:27
  think life will be when you get back.
• 19:29
  And it's going to be nice and it's going to be, you know,
• 19:31
  good. And and it it doesn't always.
• 19:34
  Romanticize what? That'll be the the re entry,
• 19:37
  yeah. Like this beautiful homecoming
• 19:38
  and this is, you know, this heroes welcome and, and all the
• 19:42
  kind of things that you might, you might think would happen
• 19:44
  and, and it just doesn't work out that way.
• 19:45
  And in fact, I did have a lot of that.
• 19:49
  I did have people who were at the airport waiting for me.
• 19:51
  I had, I was a grand Marshall on the 4th of July parade that
• 19:54
  year, all kinds of public speaking.
• 19:57
  And you know, I just, I felt like a ghost.
• 20:03
  In those moments, I remember, like riding through the parade
• 20:07
  and I'm sitting on the, I don't know, maybe it was a Corvette.
• 20:09
  You know how they have the nice convertible car?
• 20:11
  I'm sitting on this car and everybody's clapping and I'm
• 20:13
  just going. I have a little bit of pain in
• 20:16
  my in my heart going. The juice wasn't worth the
• 20:19
  squeeze, you know, like, yeah, you got.
• 20:23
  Yeah. It's great.
• 20:23
  Yeah. Jeremy, way to go.
• 20:25
  Yeah. Yeah, but I have to go to sleep
• 20:27
  tonight and I have to relive some of the things that I've
• 20:29
  experienced over that long period of time that I'll never
• 20:33
  be able to get out of my memory. Right.
• 20:35
  And so after the parade stops, right?
• 20:37
  And after after everybody puts takes their flags down and
• 20:40
  undoes their yellow ribbons. You'd have to go.
• 20:42
  On it doesn't end for us and it didn't end for me and, and
• 20:46
  people would try to help. They would recognize that man
• 20:49
  German, there's something going on and I would say, no, I think
• 20:51
  there's something wrong with you.
• 20:52
  Like, like, how would you expect me to be the same man after,
• 20:56
  after what I went through? But at the same time, I wasn't
• 21:00
  acknowledging some of the, the negative parts of that.
• 21:03
  I, in my, my opinion, I thought it, I grew up, I thought it
• 21:06
  matured me and it did, but it also made me almost a monster at
• 21:10
  times. I mean, I was very numb.
• 21:12
  Like I didn't have a lot of feeling for anybody or anything
• 21:15
  because again, I had to turn the feelings off to do that kind of
• 21:19
  work, right. I had to again, I had to die to
• 21:21
  myself, right. And so I never really, you know,
• 21:26
  I never really fixed that. And so, yeah, so I.
• 21:30
  I, I think you know what you're saying, Jeremy, I mean, because
• 21:32
  you, what I've always loved about our conversations, you're
• 21:35
  just so authentically honest about what you, what you feel,
• 21:39
  what you. But I think the hard thing for
• 21:41
  people that go through what you guys went through and, and you
• 21:46
  in horrible situations, whether it be Iraq or Afghanistan or
• 21:49
  whatever. And like you said, for long
• 21:53
  periods of time. I think what also is because of
• 21:59
  the way that you are trained, the way that you, you know,
• 22:03
  battle. I I think that it makes it
• 22:08
  difficult for someone to ask for help.
• 22:13
  Absolutely. It took me Brent, it took me a
• 22:16
  decade to ask for help. And, and the, the way that I got
• 22:20
  help is I had a really good job at a place here in Kentucky.
• 22:26
  It was, it was a subcontractor of Nestle Foods where they make
• 22:29
  all the hot pockets of the world, right?
• 22:31
  Everyday smelled like pepperoni pizza.
• 22:34
  But it's good for a good for a certain amount of time.
• 22:37
  But no, I was, I was working there and I thought, you know, I
• 22:40
  was doing good and, and I had A, and I'd worked at UPS and other
• 22:44
  places and didn't really have any issue.
• 22:46
  But when I got to this location, my boss just happened to be a, a
• 22:49
  former Marine, right? He, he retired on the Marine
• 22:53
  Corps and he just called me in one day and he said, he said, he
• 22:56
  said, Jeremy, there's some stuff, man, that that's going on
• 23:00
  that I need you to address. And, and I was like, well, what
• 23:03
  do you mean? Like we're, we're accomplishing
• 23:05
  everything that we need to accomplish.
• 23:07
  And I'm here whenever you need me.
• 23:08
  You know, he goes, no, it's nothing about your at work ethic
• 23:11
  at all. It's about, you know, some of
• 23:12
  your employees are saying that you're unapproachable, you're
• 23:16
  having a hard time staying awake and meeting sometimes.
• 23:18
  And it's because I couldn't sleep at night, right?
• 23:21
  And I said, I said, I'm really trying to work on that.
• 23:23
  I mean, I'm trying to figure all that out.
• 23:24
  And, and he said he said, I really need you to go get help.
• 23:27
  He said you have some cognitive stuff that's going on.
• 23:29
  Like you're, you know, some functioning is not just doesn't,
• 23:33
  doesn't add up. And he's like, I just really
• 23:35
  want you to get help. And I said, OK, And I had a
• 23:37
  brand new son at that point. So I'm like, OK, no problem,
• 23:40
  I'll go figure that out and I'll see you on Monday.
• 23:43
  And he said that's not going to work that way.
• 23:44
  He said, I have to let you go. Oh, man.
• 23:47
  And so I got angry, right? I said, is this what we do to
• 23:52
  each other? Like so you tell me everything
• 23:55
  that needs to be fixed and then you fire me.
• 23:57
  You know, I have a brand new son.
• 23:59
  You know, I live in Eastern Kentucky, which there wasn't a
• 24:01
  lot of work there. And I'm going that's not
• 24:05
  helpful. How do you believe this is
• 24:06
  helpful? And, and he says it's one of the
• 24:09
  hardest things, one of the hardest decisions I ever had to
• 24:11
  make. He said, but I know if I don't
• 24:13
  do that, you won't go. And so I left there and and I
• 24:18
  did. I went to the VA and they put me
• 24:20
  through the ringer. I felt like a, a hamster in a
• 24:22
  cage. All these series of testing,
• 24:24
  that's where they diagnosed me, you know, with PTSD, mild
• 24:28
  traumatic brain injury, a bunch of physical stuff said you'll
• 24:32
  never be the same. These are the things you're
• 24:33
  going to have to deal with for the rest of your life.
• 24:35
  And I'm like, wait a minute. Yeah, like what do you mean?
• 24:38
  Like I didn't come here for that.
• 24:39
  I come here to check a box. So you're telling me I'm going
• 24:43
  to leave here with all these new conditions and all these things
• 24:45
  that that I have to deal with for the rest of my life?
• 24:48
  And they were like, yes. And so then that's when, you
• 24:51
  know, I become unemployable, disabled, right at the at the
• 24:56
  100% level. And and then the rest was
• 25:00
  history. But, you know, I will say for
• 25:04
  that, for that boss, he recently donated to our organization.
• 25:09
  It was, it was. Yeah, it was actually, it was
• 25:12
  actually a it was, it was what needed to happen.
• 25:15
  I just, I just didn't like how it happened.
• 25:17
  Yeah, because of the the loyalty, right.
• 25:19
  Like we're, we're both brothers in arms here.
• 25:21
  We don't do that to each other. But.
• 25:23
  But he's right. I would have never ever.
• 25:25
  He said that it was tough love. He said you'll never go unless I
• 25:28
  do this. Yeah.
• 25:30
  So I mean, in hearing all that and, and basically saying, you
• 25:35
  know, it's, it's a mental thing, you know, you're not in a
• 25:40
  wheelchair, but mentally you're not there.
• 25:42
  You've you've got work to do, You're disabled.
• 25:46
  Yes. So an.
• 25:47
  Invisible wound I. Call it an invisible wound and
• 25:51
  and you have to step through it the way that somebody has to
• 25:54
  learn how to walk again or whatever those things are
• 25:57
  mentally might even be the tougher part of it because
• 25:59
  nobody can see it. How did how did you start
• 26:05
  walking through that? Jeremy?
• 26:07
  What, what did you start doing once they diagnosed you?
• 26:10
  You know, doctor says, here you are.
• 26:13
  Here's what it is. How do you deal with it?
• 26:16
  So the first thing I did, I thought, well, this is how you
• 26:19
  defeat an enemy. You learn as much about them as
• 26:22
  you can, right? So I started learning and trying
• 26:25
  to be a subject matter expert on PTSD and traumatic brain injury
• 26:28
  and mental health. And, you know, all the access
• 26:31
  of, of what it looks like to be diagnosed, what the DSM says.
• 26:34
  And I'm going to therapy, I'm going to these inpatient
• 26:36
  programs. I actually went to 12 different
• 26:39
  PTSD programs around the country, trying my best to get
• 26:43
  on top of this to where I could have a productive life.
• 26:45
  And I wouldn't allow it to just totally just destroy me.
• 26:49
  And I and I got very, you know, I learned so much to where often
• 26:53
  times mental health professionals now are like
• 26:55
  colleagues to me, right? So it got to the point where I
• 26:59
  would go to therapy at the VA and we talked about programs
• 27:02
  that I had to help veterans versus talking about the things
• 27:05
  that I needed to talk about, right?
• 27:07
  And so, but that's, I think cost me with this case is that I took
• 27:13
  a proactive approach and I decided, yeah, I may have this
• 27:17
  and I may deal with this for the rest of my life.
• 27:18
  And it may, you know, put limitations on what I can do,
• 27:21
  but I'm going to do my best to live a productive life to spite
• 27:24
  it because I have kids, I have people, I have a wife, I have, I
• 27:28
  have there's people that depend on me.
• 27:30
  I can't just lay here with a pistol in my mouth with a bunch
• 27:33
  of empty pill bottles. But it's almost as if that's
• 27:36
  what they'd rather you do. Well, that's that's that's
• 27:38
  what's so disturb. Yeah, that's what's so
• 27:40
  disturbing about the stories because what you did is you did
• 27:44
  something proactive to understand your condition.
• 27:48
  And by doing that you became so good at that that people wanted
• 27:54
  to talk to you about it. And I'm assuming that as you
• 27:58
  became more knowledgeable and and and confident in in what you
• 28:04
  were talking and learning is when you probably thought I need
• 28:08
  to do so, I could create an organization and not only help
• 28:11
  myself, but help other people. Yeah, because you know, these
• 28:15
  these mental health professionals, they would say
• 28:17
  things. I would, I would hear them say
• 28:19
  things like, you know, the, the media asked Jeremy, they never
• 28:22
  come to the VA and ask us how you know, how to handle veterans
• 28:25
  with PTSD and suicidal ideations.
• 28:27
  And how did that happen, Jeremy, because I noticed you, you, you
• 28:30
  you talked a lot to the you you became a media expert on a go to
• 28:36
  guy. How?
• 28:36
  How did that first start happening?
• 28:39
  You know, I wish I had a a cooler story.
• 28:42
  It's it's, it's just, it just organically happened.
• 28:44
  And I think the reason why, Brent, is because, you know, I
• 28:48
  often times medical professionals, mental health
• 28:50
  professionals, they like to give numbers and they like to get up
• 28:53
  there and have this very rigid regimental discussion about what
• 28:57
  it is scientifically. And while that is, you know,
• 29:00
  that's good and necessary, especially at, like,
• 29:02
  conferences, but I was more about the lived experience.
• 29:07
  Yeah. So I could say this is what it
• 29:09
  really feels like. I know the book says this, but
• 29:11
  I'm going to tell you what it really does.
• 29:13
  And I'm going to tell you what what branches out off of that
• 29:16
  one symptom that the book doesn't say.
• 29:19
  And so it was more like human interest.
• 29:22
  And so they would rather ask me because I could give them live
• 29:24
  examples. I can talk to them about all the
• 29:26
  hundreds of vets I've talked to that told me their story, you
• 29:30
  know, and, and that was that was better for TV than 95% of
• 29:35
  veterans that you know, I mean, that's what.
• 29:37
  You were connecting also to the audience you want to connect to
• 29:39
  with the veterans and that so. Right.
• 29:42
  Makes a lot of sense. Yeah.
• 29:43
  And then I would offer solutions.
• 29:45
  I would offer common sense solutions, though, like they
• 29:48
  have to understand a person who is in a mental health crisis.
• 29:51
  It's very difficult for them to read off some pamphlet that you
• 29:53
  get and try to apply that to their life.
• 29:56
  You know, I mainly wanted these veterans to know that we're here
• 29:58
  as an organization, whatever hour of the day or the night
• 30:02
  doesn't matter. And we're going to stay on with
• 30:04
  you and we're going to love you and we're going to take care of
• 30:06
  you. And that's something that these
• 30:07
  agencies just don't put out. Jeremy, did you know like I mean
• 30:11
  because your organization was a nationally known respected and
• 30:14
  is not was is how did you know how to do it?
• 30:23
  Man, I never said the word nonprofit Brent until I started
• 30:26
  1. So when we first started doing
• 30:30
  so, Veterans Club started in 2017.
• 30:33
  So I went out to to New York and I went to an equine facilitated
• 30:38
  mentoring program out there and I went into a Chapel they had on
• 30:42
  site and I prayed. I said, God, you know, I don't
• 30:45
  know what it is that that that you have for me, but I wish that
• 30:47
  you would give me something to do in your Kingdom that would,
• 30:49
  that would bring honor and glory to you and I could be
• 30:51
  beneficial, right? That was in October of 2017 and
• 30:56
  November of 2017. I went to Kansas, which was
• 30:59
  another, and I didn't understand why I was going to all these
• 31:01
  like equine therapy locations, but I went out there, I spent
• 31:07
  the weekend out there. I flew back and that director
• 31:09
  called. He's like, Jeremy, I'd love for
• 31:11
  you to come back out and and talk to Megyn Kelly about your
• 31:15
  experience here. And I said, who's that?
• 31:19
  And then he, as he was at the Today show then and, and he
• 31:21
  explained who it was. And I said, oh, I feel, I feel
• 31:23
  embarrassed now. I'm glad you told me.
• 31:25
  I said, no, I'm not the guy. I mean, that's I don't really
• 31:27
  know much about horses, despite being from Kentucky.
• 31:29
  We don't all have five horses in the backyard, you know, a lot of
• 31:33
  people assume. That's what everybody thinks.
• 31:36
  Louisville has horses and everybody has five or six, Yeah.
• 31:39
  And so, so I said, I said, I'm probably not the guy.
• 31:42
  I'm sure you know, guys that that could really talk more
• 31:44
  intelligently about this. He goes, it ain't about the
• 31:46
  intellectual part of it. It's about how it made you feel
• 31:48
  and how you articulate that. He's like, you're really good at
• 31:50
  that and we'll do anything for each other, right?
• 31:53
  So I said, OK, man, I'll do it. So I flew out.
• 31:55
  We we recorded it, flew back home and two weeks later, I'm
• 31:59
  sitting in the basement with my wife.
• 32:01
  We're watching TV. It's it airs cost to loot the
• 32:03
  service and and through that program, Megyn Kelly says Jeremy
• 32:07
  is a mentor in this program. And I'm like, OK, you know,
• 32:11
  sometimes we don't get it right, Right.
• 32:13
  He went on to say at the end, and Jeremy's going to do this in
• 32:15
  his home state of Kentucky. So I hop on the phone and
• 32:19
  Patrick, his name's Patrick. He answers.
• 32:20
  He says, I did not tell her that and I said I literally live in a
• 32:24
  subdivision. I have 1/4 acre lot.
• 32:26
  I don't even have a dog, right? Like how am I going to do this?
• 32:29
  But my wife grew up around horses.
• 32:31
  She's shown horses, worked at Churchill Downs, all the things
• 32:34
  and she knew friends who had it. And so that's kind of how
• 32:36
  veterans Club started. And then we, and then after we
• 32:38
  started doing that right away, we developed a, a private
• 32:42
  Facebook group and all it was supposed to do was to bring a
• 32:46
  social group to bring people together.
• 32:48
  And then two years later, people like Jeremy, you have to become
• 32:50
  a non profit. So many people want to help and
• 32:52
  they, they won't donate if you don't.
• 32:54
  And I'm like, I don't really want a title.
• 32:56
  I'm fighting against this title. I just want to be Jeremy.
• 32:59
  And, and they're like, well, you only need the title for the
• 33:02
  formality of it. I said OK, fine.
• 33:04
  And so that's how it all started.
• 33:06
  It was exactly how I never ever had any experience.
• 33:09
  So Megyn Kelly just she, she pushed you into it.
• 33:11
  Megyn Kelly pushed you into it. Essentially, she kind of, yeah.
• 33:14
  I mean because I felt. Like and your wife, said Megyn
• 33:16
  Kelly's right. Yeah, I've sent her, I've sent
• 33:20
  her letters about that, you know, just to let you know that
• 33:22
  I don't know why you did that, but thank you for doing that
• 33:24
  because this is what turned out from it.
• 33:26
  And so hopefully, you know, she'll, she'll respond when she
• 33:28
  can. But but yeah, I mean, that's
• 33:31
  what's that's what's so crazy for people.
• 33:33
  And I think that's why the government's confused.
• 33:34
  Everybody's confused. It's like this guy has no
• 33:36
  experience. He never worked in a nonprofit.
• 33:39
  He didn't have any investors. We didn't have a dollar for a
• 33:42
  long time. I remember having $300.00 in our
• 33:45
  in our account. But I learned how to be
• 33:49
  resourceful. And I learned that it's not
• 33:50
  always throwing money at a problem that fixes a problem.
• 33:54
  So I started doing this common we'd have cookouts, come home to
• 33:57
  the house, bring your, bring your kids.
• 33:59
  And that was just more effective than all these.
• 34:01
  That's what I love about your whole story is, you know, the
• 34:04
  coffee shop deals, the barbecues and it's it's not just the guys
• 34:08
  showing up, it's their families showing up.
• 34:10
  But you were bringing the whole family out of isolation.
• 34:14
  And that's that's what I think was, is so powerful about what
• 34:17
  you did. It was just a boots on the
• 34:19
  ground operation that really touched so many people and grew
• 34:23
  really quickly. I mean, 2017 is not that long
• 34:27
  ago. Right, right.
• 34:30
  And you know, trying to handle, you know, growth is a good
• 34:32
  thing, but it's still a challenge, right.
• 34:34
  So, so trying to handle that and then and then been looked at
• 34:37
  nationally as, as a, you know, as a subject matter expert, you
• 34:41
  know, there's a lot of pressure there, but I just stayed true to
• 34:45
  what I knew was right. And, and, and, you know, I would
• 34:48
  tell my team, you know, they would say, Jeremy, that's,
• 34:50
  that's a lot like, like when, you know, Senator Rand Paul, he,
• 34:54
  he testified about my, my, my efforts to the Congress.
• 34:57
  And, and they're like, you know, how are you going to, how are
• 35:00
  you going to keep the relevance into this?
• 35:02
  And I said, I don't, that's not my concern.
• 35:04
  It's just I'm going to, we're going to keep helping people.
• 35:07
  I'm going to keep telling people how and how it's effective.
• 35:10
  And then, you know, I don't do it for any kind of relevance.
• 35:13
  I do it because it's what's needed and, and that people feel
• 35:15
  that with me, I believe, you know, I believe they feel the
• 35:18
  sincerity, the authenticity and who I am and they know that I'm
• 35:21
  not. This has never been about an
• 35:23
  occupation. And that's why I'm trying to let
• 35:25
  the government know this is a, this is a lifestyle for me,
• 35:29
  right? Like it is a calling for me.
• 35:31
  It's not that I thought, I mean, to be honest, my lawyers have
• 35:34
  told me, Jeremy, if you would have done this for profit and
• 35:37
  contracted with the Department of Defense, you'd be a multi
• 35:39
  millionaire. And they're like, have you ever
• 35:41
  thought of that? And I said never.
• 35:43
  And they're like, This is why I don't understand what's
• 35:44
  happening here, like you haven't even thought of.
• 35:47
  I, I tell me, how did, how did it get started?
• 35:51
  So you, you get this thing going, You're, you're, you're
• 35:53
  making all this great impact. There's no, there's no debate
• 35:56
  about that. There is in this whole story.
• 35:59
  There is no debate about how great the, the veterans this
• 36:05
  whole thing is and how you've helped and, and, and what you've
• 36:08
  done and how people have been at.
• 36:10
  So that part is off to the side. So when did you find out that
• 36:13
  somebody was poking around trying to create trouble?
• 36:17
  So it was October of 23. I had I had just come back.
• 36:24
  I spent two weeks at at the Emory Brain Center at Emory
• 36:29
  University in Atlanta, GA. I was going through further
• 36:32
  treatment for PTSDI have to maintain treatment for, for my
• 36:35
  own sanity, and then I was going through their traumatic brain
• 36:37
  injury clinic as well. I did, I don't think it was over
• 36:40
  41 therapy sessions in those two weeks.
• 36:42
  I stayed in Atlanta. I left on that Friday and then
• 36:49
  on Monday I went into our headquarters and I was sitting
• 36:52
  down with our director of operations who really does all
• 36:54
  the things they thought I did. I was more of the face, you
• 36:58
  know, more of the story guy. So I'm trying to get caught up.
• 37:01
  What what I missed for two weeks and there's a knock at the door.
• 37:05
  Two guys come in. They have a brewing hat on
• 37:07
  backpack, you know, thought, OK, a couple of vats, no problem.
• 37:11
  And they, they, you know, they asked my director, hey, can we
• 37:14
  speak to, to Jeremy? And he's like, oh, yeah, because
• 37:16
  that's just how we are, right? They come in and and they're
• 37:19
  like, hey, I'm so and so and I'm like, OK, how can I help you?
• 37:22
  And they're like, hey, we just want to have a conversation.
• 37:24
  I said, OK, no problem. So we go upstairs to my office
• 37:27
  and, and we sit down and they're asking me these questions.
• 37:31
  And I'm like, wait a minute. I'm like, gosh, this doesn't
• 37:33
  seem like a conversation to me. This is more like an
• 37:36
  interrogation. And I I need to know who you
• 37:38
  are. That's when they finally told me
• 37:41
  who they were. And they, they, they showed
• 37:43
  their credentials and I said, OK, well, what, what are you
• 37:47
  here for? How can I help you?
• 37:49
  Basically because I had no indication that I was under any
• 37:52
  kind of investigation. They had never talked to me
• 37:54
  before the indictment. Ever.
• 37:56
  So these are just a couple FBI guys that knock on the door.
• 37:59
  Yeah, they were VAOIG office Inspector General agents, the
• 38:03
  criminal division, and I didn't even know they had.
• 38:07
  Yeah. And he was prior to that he was
• 38:09
  a Secret Service guy. But nonetheless, you know, he's
• 38:12
  he's like, how do you do this? And I said, well, that's a very
• 38:16
  broad question. I I don't understand what
• 38:18
  exactly you mean. He's looked around my office
• 38:19
  like, you have all these awards. He's like, you're running a
• 38:22
  successful organization. They're talking about you all
• 38:24
  over the country, but you're supposed to be disabled.
• 38:27
  You're supposed to be unemployable, yet you're running
• 38:29
  this extremely successful organization.
• 38:34
  And I said, well, I don't have an intellectual disability.
• 38:38
  That was my first response, right?
• 38:40
  I said, and I also have a team. I have a board of directors.
• 38:44
  I don't make any decision in a nonprofit without their
• 38:48
  approval. That's how nonprofits work.
• 38:50
  It's not like a for profit business, I said, but we have a
• 38:53
  lot of volunteers. There's a lot of hands in this.
• 38:55
  But I mean, I have the vision and the vision is to help
• 38:59
  veterans and I have the opportunity to do that.
• 39:02
  And so why would I sit at home and not do anything instead of
• 39:06
  being productive and helping these veterans quit killing
• 39:08
  themselves? I said, after all, don't you all
• 39:10
  do all these, you know, campaigns about in veteran
• 39:12
  suicide? Well, that's exactly what we're
• 39:14
  trying to do. And I said, in fact, both VA
• 39:17
  hospitals and their directors in Kentucky have asked me to be a
• 39:20
  consultant for their executive leadership team.
• 39:23
  I've done that at no charge to the VA.
• 39:25
  I've done that strictly voluntarily to try to help them
• 39:29
  to single handedly rebuild the trust between veterans and VA.
• 39:33
  And he, I thought that was a good response to that.
• 39:36
  And he then the other guy's like, we're just trying to do
• 39:38
  our job here. And I'm like, OK, don't know
• 39:42
  where that come from. I'm answering your questions.
• 39:44
  But I said, I said, am I in some kind of trouble?
• 39:47
  That's what I that's what I eventually asked that.
• 39:50
  And he said, yeah, you're you're indicted for theft of government
• 39:53
  funds. And the.
• 39:55
  Only person I knew that was indicted at that point was
• 39:58
  Donald Trump, right? Like I didn't, I didn't really
• 40:00
  know what indictment exactly was, right?
• 40:02
  I didn't have no. A lot of people get an
• 40:04
  indictment and conviction confused.
• 40:05
  Indictment is charged. But in the in the world out
• 40:09
  there, a lot of people think indictment is conviction.
• 40:12
  But a lot of time it's up to me in that.
• 40:13
  But yeah. Well, that's how they that's how
• 40:15
  they treated me, right? There was no innocent until
• 40:17
  proven guilty. Right, right.
• 40:19
  But but I said, well, listen, guys, I'm going to need to get,
• 40:22
  you know, a legal guidance here. And so I'm done with this
• 40:25
  conversation. He gets up, they they get ready
• 40:28
  to leave my office. The guy turns around.
• 40:30
  He says, by the way, you've done some amazing things for veterans
• 40:34
  and their families. He'd been following me for a
• 40:38
  year. I think he, I think he spent 400
• 40:39
  hours something like that surveilling me, which had to be
• 40:43
  extremely boring. And then you talk about waste,
• 40:45
  fraud and abuse. I mean, you know, he's getting
• 40:48
  paid to do that. But anyway, he he leaves and,
• 40:50
  and I have this summons. They didn't arrest me, which my
• 40:54
  attorney said that, you know, they they're going to act like
• 40:57
  they did you a favor, but that would have been really bad had
• 40:59
  they arrested you for that. So they leave.
• 41:01
  I go to my one of my board of advisors or my advisor on my
• 41:05
  Advisory Board. He's a happens to be a
• 41:06
  disability attorney and retired Colonel.
• 41:10
  I go over to his office and I say, is this serious?
• 41:13
  And he has tears in his eyes, right.
• 41:16
  And he had been, he had known, you know, he'd been following us
• 41:18
  and been a part of our organization from the beginning.
• 41:20
  And I said, what's going on? He goes, Jeremy, this is very
• 41:22
  serious. He said essentially this is a
• 41:24
  felony. Like the federal government is
• 41:26
  trying to convict you of theft. And I'm like, still in what?
• 41:33
  Like it was their doctors who said I was unemployable.
• 41:36
  I can't do that for myself. Right.
• 41:39
  And I was always having this conversation.
• 41:41
  I wanted to give a shout out to Sabrina Morgan who connected
• 41:43
  Jeremy and I. But I was having this
• 41:45
  conversation with Sabrina this morning and we were talking back
• 41:48
  and forth because we were, I was talking about, I was getting
• 41:49
  interviews this afternoon. And, you know, if anybody could
• 41:54
  be indicted, it wouldn't be the, it wouldn't be the patient, it
• 41:57
  would be the doctor. So I'm, I'm not saying that
• 42:00
  doctors did anything wrong, but how could you indict the
• 42:04
  patient? And, and if the doctor's, the
• 42:06
  one that gives the diagnosis, and there were multiple doctors
• 42:09
  in this, this series of transactions that happened for
• 42:13
  13 years, it's, it's beyond understanding of how this got to
• 42:19
  where it is. I want to take a break here
• 42:22
  because I, I, before I want to get into what your thought
• 42:26
  process was and how you went forward with your legal team
• 42:29
  because you went to trial. I want to get into that before
• 42:32
  we do. I want to, you know, does
• 42:36
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• 43:41
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• 43:43
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  the White Collar Support Group, the world, the world's first
• 43:50
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• 43:52
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• 44:10
  Start here. All right, Jeremy, so you go and
• 44:13
  you talk and, and you've got this attorney that's got tears
• 44:16
  in his eyes and he's telling you this is serious.
• 44:19
  I know how that feels. I mean, I, I, I, I know this
• 44:23
  whole thing, it gives me PTSD. So what what are?
• 44:26
  What are the next steps that what that happened for you?
• 44:29
  Yeah, so, so I I asked him if he could refer me to an attorney, a
• 44:35
  criminal defense attorney, which in which he did, and I
• 44:38
  immediately left his office. Of course, I called my wife, one
• 44:42
  of the hardest calls I ever had to make.
• 44:44
  She just, I mean, I think she spent the first couple minutes
• 44:48
  on the phone going what, what, what, like she just couldn't
• 44:51
  believe, I think. That's how I started this
• 44:52
  conversation on the nightmare. Success was what?
• 44:55
  What happened? How did this happen?
• 44:57
  It's unfathomable, right? And, and, and I immediately
• 45:00
  thought somebody, somewhere, because up to this point, you
• 45:06
  know, I think a side effect of success is criticism.
• 45:08
  It's hate, it's envy. And, and of course it's a lot of
• 45:12
  support and a lot of like, I have a lot more people that love
• 45:15
  me and support me than don't, but it's the ones that don't
• 45:17
  that are the loudest. Yeah.
• 45:21
  So as, as we go through this process, you know, I'm, I'm
• 45:24
  hearing things that people are saying about me and I'm like,
• 45:26
  OK, whatever. But never in my wildest dreams
• 45:29
  that I ever thought that, that it would somehow end in a, an
• 45:32
  indictment, a federal indictment.
• 45:34
  And, and, and so I just thought, man, some group of people
• 45:39
  somewhere have really worked really hard to try to create a
• 45:42
  problem for me. And so, so my first train of
• 45:46
  thought was problem solving, right?
• 45:48
  Like this just has to be a misunderstanding.
• 45:51
  How do we get through this? But then the other thought I had
• 45:54
  was why didn't this investigator talk to me before charging me?
• 45:57
  Sure. Like, I mean, I've watched
• 45:58
  enough true crime to know that every suspect gets interviewed.
• 46:03
  Why did he skip that part? And that's when it started to
• 46:05
  become a little bit weird for me.
• 46:07
  I'm going. I didn't even have an
• 46:08
  opportunity to answer his questions which I could justify
• 46:11
  all this, but maybe that's why he never asked me so.
• 46:15
  And, and I want to make sure that we break it down right too,
• 46:18
  Jeremy. I know I said a little bit of it
• 46:20
  at the beginning, but it's very obvious.
• 46:25
  You were an Iraq war veteran. You came back, you you had
• 46:30
  somebody tell you, you had to go get help.
• 46:32
  You went and got help. And this is what they said you
• 46:35
  needed to do as far as and you then took it through two or
• 46:39
  three extra steps to become an expert in the field.
• 46:42
  So much so that you wanted to help other people and yourself
• 46:45
  by creating a nonprofit to get people back on their feet.
• 46:49
  What they said you did wrong was is you volunteered too many
• 46:54
  hours doing too many things and you can't be disabled if you can
• 46:57
  do that. Yeah.
• 46:59
  I mean, essentially that's it's, it's in a nutshell what they
• 47:02
  said. And of course they use legal,
• 47:04
  legal jumbo to do that. But but not only that, I want to
• 47:08
  also point out for the listeners is that in 2016, the VA said you
• 47:14
  are permanently and totally disabled with a static
• 47:18
  condition. And what that means about their
• 47:20
  definition is not likely to improve.
• 47:23
  They basically said, go out and live your life.
• 47:26
  And so Social Security Administration has a Wounded
• 47:30
  Warrior Project or Wounded Warrior program where if you're,
• 47:34
  if you're rated like that, you can you can also get benefits
• 47:37
  from Social Security early. And so I did get those benefits.
• 47:42
  They they knew what I was doing and said that I was not involved
• 47:46
  in substantial gainful activity and did not prosecute me.
• 47:50
  Right, they looked at. Everything right?
• 47:51
  Yeah. But I just want the audience to
• 47:54
  know is that there was no doubt when I in 2016 that OK, this is
• 47:58
  what they said about me. I'll never improve.
• 48:01
  I had to do something. I was a, you know, I'm still a
• 48:04
  fairly young man, right? So I had to do something.
• 48:06
  I, I'm not a guy who just likes to sit around and not do
• 48:09
  anything. And, and I thought, why would I
• 48:11
  go through so much hell and not share with others how to
• 48:15
  overcome it? I don't want someone else to go
• 48:17
  through 15 years of hell if I can give them some information
• 48:20
  that helps them get better. So I thought, well, this is me
• 48:23
  serving the country still, right?
• 48:25
  It's me partnering with VA like it seems to be all the right
• 48:29
  things. Everybody's on the same team.
• 48:31
  And then here we are. It's almost as if.
• 48:33
  And they never bothered me from 16 until 22.
• 48:39
  Yeah, well, they started the investigation in 22, right?
• 48:42
  They just didn't know it. Yeah, yeah, they said that that
• 48:46
  the agent said that he got an anonymous tip that started this
• 48:50
  investigation. But I have a timeline because
• 48:53
  the VA captures everything and I have a timeline that, that, that
• 48:58
  that anonymous tip come in on in December.
• 49:01
  But I was being examined and investigated in September of
• 49:05
  2022. So it wasn't that they were
• 49:08
  already investigating me, but it's almost as if they needed a
• 49:10
  good reason. So they got an anonymous tip
• 49:13
  who, who then said on the anonymous tip, it pretty much
• 49:17
  said that we believe Jeremy is living too good to be disabled.
• 49:21
  And we we worry that he's taking money from the organization.
• 49:25
  Right. And that that's another thing
• 49:27
  that's not the case. This is this is a case only
• 49:31
  about disability. Yeah.
• 49:33
  You know, could we have a different type of discussion if,
• 49:36
  you know, Jeremy was had a millions of dollars of this
• 49:41
  nonprofit and he was taking millions of dollars out.
• 49:44
  That is not even part of this. That's not, that's not even the
• 49:47
  discussion. It's about $100,000 / 13 years
• 49:51
  of disability. Yeah.
• 49:53
  And so, you know, the the agent had a forensic accountant go
• 49:56
  through my records realized because he told me in the
• 49:59
  interview with me that he knows that I've never taken a dollar
• 50:03
  from the organization. And so I'm like, OK, well, what
• 50:06
  are we doing here? Well, why didn't so that took
• 50:09
  care of the the money part of it, but then why didn't they
• 50:12
  close the the investigation? Why did they continue to find a
• 50:16
  way to try to come after me? That's the $1,000,000 question.
• 50:20
  It is $1,000,000 question so you decide you know I for the people
• 50:25
  who listen to this show they know the statistics because I
• 50:27
  say them like it's a broken record, but 9798% of the people
• 50:32
  that get indicted plea Jeremy didn't do that.
• 50:36
  Jeremy believes that no matter what, this was so crazy and so
• 50:41
  wrong that he was going to go to trial, lead us through that
• 50:45
  trial. What?
• 50:46
  What was? How does that work?
• 50:50
  Yeah. So, you know, the the the first
• 50:53
  day of trial obviously is jury selection, which is a really
• 50:56
  encompassing process that I didn't, I didn't, I mean, it
• 51:00
  just blew my mind. The whole thing's mind blowing.
• 51:01
  It's it's it's it's like. You're watching another thing
• 51:05
  that it's not your life. Yeah, it's almost like an out of
• 51:08
  body experience, right? I'm like, how am I even sitting
• 51:10
  in here for helping? I just couldn't get that out of
• 51:12
  my head, right. And so we're trying to decide,
• 51:14
  you know, who we're going to pick for jury.
• 51:16
  Of course we get our picks, They get their picks.
• 51:18
  But anybody that was a veteran essentially got cut.
• 51:22
  Anybody that was on disability essentially got cut.
• 51:26
  Anybody that had PTSD or known somebody had PTSD got cut.
• 51:29
  I'm going. All the people that could
• 51:30
  identify. Yeah, I'm like, OK, so they're
• 51:34
  not going to understand anything from my perspective.
• 51:36
  And and it's hard for anybody to.
• 51:38
  Anyway, here's why is the VA claim process is so complex.
• 51:43
  The Indiana Bar Association just put it out in their magazine
• 51:46
  saying that it's so complex, veterans don't even really know
• 51:49
  how to do it. And the people that work there
• 51:51
  often don't know how to do it. And we had a guy that come that
• 51:53
  worked there and his own job was to do claims at the VA.
• 51:56
  He's been there since 2009. And he admitted that they often
• 51:59
  make mistakes. So now you got this jury pool.
• 52:02
  Many of them are 192223 years old and, and you know, they
• 52:06
  maybe they drive a truck or their pharmacy tech or something
• 52:09
  like that. How is that my peers?
• 52:12
  So I go, I go, how are they peers to me?
• 52:15
  Like they're not going to understand disability or VA.
• 52:18
  None of them are veterans and they're definitely not going to
• 52:20
  understand what it's like to lead a nonprofit and mental
• 52:23
  health. And so anyway, I knew that I was
• 52:26
  in a bad situation right away when I seen the jury and
• 52:29
  realized with her. And I was just like, my only
• 52:31
  hope is that my lawyers can because I thought this should be
• 52:36
  very easy to explain because, and we still believe today.
• 52:41
  I just met with my attorneys yesterday on Veteran's Day,
• 52:43
  which was weird, but nonetheless, there was a
• 52:47
  truckload of reasonable doubt in that courtroom.
• 52:51
  But prosecutors are really good. They're like robots.
• 52:55
  I just remember this guy going, it's as if he does this every
• 52:59
  day, right? Whereas my, you know, my
• 53:01
  attorneys, one of my attorneys had had he, he tried 76 cases in
• 53:05
  his career, which I think is a lot.
• 53:08
  But most attorneys may not ever even go into a courtroom, to be
• 53:11
  honest. And so, yeah, especially and,
• 53:14
  and here's the other thing the listeners do to know is there's
• 53:15
  not another case like mine. We could find no case law.
• 53:19
  I've never. Heard of a case like yours,
• 53:21
  Jeremy? Ever.
• 53:22
  Right. So there's nothing to compare it
• 53:23
  to. So they're going in as
• 53:25
  attorneys. But I mean, they're not, they're
• 53:26
  not miracle workers, right? They're trying to figure out how
• 53:29
  to approve this case. But the prosecutor kept trying
• 53:32
  to convince the jury that I was not truthful during my
• 53:37
  examinations. And he even used, he even used
• 53:42
  documents from Social Security to try to convict me when Social
• 53:47
  Security didn't even try to convict me, right?
• 53:50
  And So what really happened was, you know, these folks in the
• 53:54
  jury box were going, they keep saying he didn't tell the truth.
• 53:57
  He didn't tell the truth. My lawyers like, believe me, if
• 54:00
  they believe Jeremy didn't tell the truth, he would have a, he
• 54:02
  would have a charge for false statements.
• 54:05
  They're not, they're not, they're not in the mercy
• 54:08
  business here, right? That's.
• 54:10
  What Martha Stewart went to prison for lying to the FBI?
• 54:13
  Yeah, but then all 13 or so witnesses, that was for the
• 54:18
  prosecution. None of them said I was a liar.
• 54:21
  None of them said I was without integrity.
• 54:23
  In fact, these witnesses, they made claims in their statement
• 54:28
  to the agent, and they never even said that on the stand.
• 54:31
  They said things like Jeremy's a nobleman.
• 54:33
  Jeremy's one of the best leaders I've ever I've ever served with.
• 54:37
  He would do anything for people, not just vets, but anybody.
• 54:40
  I had the VA, the chief experience officer get up there
• 54:42
  and said he's single handedly rebuilt trust in the veteran
• 54:45
  community and got more people to come and be a part of our
• 54:47
  programs at the VA. And my lawyers whispered to him
• 54:49
  is like, this is like a damn award ceremony for you.
• 54:54
  This is going to help you despite all that.
• 54:57
  And then right after they all testified and I don't know why
• 55:01
  the prosecutor did this. I really thought it was going to
• 55:03
  be work against him. He played about an hour's worth
• 55:07
  of all my clips in the media and just different interviews I did
• 55:11
  where I would say This is why I do it.
• 55:12
  I don't, I don't do it for for gain.
• 55:14
  I do it because I go through it, you know, all the everything.
• 55:19
  So I'm going, OK, great. I don't have to testify now
• 55:21
  because now the judge knows me, the jury knows me and I don't
• 55:24
  have to worry about getting crossed and and that kind of
• 55:26
  thing. But with all that said, the
• 55:30
  agent gets up there, he admits one of the first questions my
• 55:34
  lawyer asked is would Mr. Harrell have ever received
• 55:37
  anything from the VA that said he could not or have a
• 55:39
  limitation on volunteering? Agent says no, that right there
• 55:45
  is enough. And so he goes.
• 55:47
  He goes. So is there anything in VA
• 55:49
  policy about volunteering at all?
• 55:52
  He said no. He said what about starting a
• 55:54
  non profit? He said no.
• 55:57
  He said so there's really no rule against it?
• 56:00
  No case closed. But it didn't close close.
• 56:06
  Hit the gavel. Right.
• 56:07
  And yeah, so when I and then and then we had that form from the
• 56:12
  from the Social Security Administration, who it's much
• 56:15
  harder to get disability through because there are all or nothing
• 56:18
  agency. They don't have percentages like
• 56:20
  the VA. We bring this this form up to
• 56:24
  the guy who makes the decision at the VA and we say, have you
• 56:27
  seen this form? He says no, and they're like, so
• 56:31
  you get all the other Social Security documentation to help
• 56:34
  make your case, but you never seen this one where it says, we
• 56:37
  looked at Jeremy made a special determination and even though
• 56:40
  he's the founder and CEO of Verisco, we don't believe he's
• 56:42
  doing anything wrong. You just so happen not to get
• 56:45
  that one in your package. He says, I've never seen that.
• 56:49
  The prosecutor is sweating through his suit at that point,
• 56:52
  trying his best to get that not put in the evidence.
• 56:55
  They're fighting at the bench and it gets put into evidence.
• 56:58
  And I thought, OK, that's the deal.
• 57:00
  We're good. And man, it just didn't work out
• 57:03
  that way. It just, and I don't know why,
• 57:05
  but it just he kept trying to convince in the closest
• 57:08
  statements, the jury that Mister Harrell lied.
• 57:10
  Mr. Harrell could have made $250,000 a year.
• 57:12
  He was very successful. Look what he's able to
• 57:16
  accomplish. Nobody in the jury box,
• 57:18
  unfortunately, will probably ever make $250,000 a year.
• 57:22
  And so they're going, man, he can make all that money and he's
• 57:26
  getting, you know, disability, not knowing the intricacies of
• 57:30
  that. And so my lawyers like, did did
• 57:33
  anybody see a $250,000 check for Jeremy?
• 57:36
  Because we haven't seen the 250. We're assuming like all that,
• 57:41
  put all that aside, they get the last word, the prosecution and
• 57:45
  he just kept on with the false statements.
• 57:47
  But Jeremy's, you know, they used A2020 questionnaire from
• 57:52
  the from the Social Security Administration where I said that
• 57:56
  I wasn't doing a lot of the things that I have been doing
• 57:58
  since, but never pointed out the fact that that was 2020.
• 58:02
  It was the year of COVID. Nobody was doing anything.
• 58:05
  But they didn't use the evaluation I did in 24 and 23
• 58:09
  where I said, yeah, we work with vets.
• 58:11
  So, you know, I've run a nonprofit and and then the agent
• 58:14
  gets up there and he says if Mr. Harrell would have just told the
• 58:18
  Examiner at the VA that he was the founder and CEO of Veterans
• 58:21
  Club, we wouldn't be here today. And that doesn't.
• 58:25
  Even make any sense? I thought, that's a hell of a
• 58:27
  claim. Like she didn't ask me if I was.
• 58:30
  And most of the people at the VA know who I am anyway because I
• 58:33
  partner with them every day. Yeah.
• 58:36
  So I'm like, how can I be here because someone didn't?
• 58:38
  Ask me and it's probably. Yeah.
• 58:41
  It's not hidden. I, I, I wonder after going
• 58:47
  through all that, hearing all that, when you, when the jury
• 58:49
  walked back in, you know, it's, you see this all the time on TV.
• 58:54
  What? What was going through your
• 58:56
  mind? Well, they only deliberated for
• 58:59
  like an hour and 40 minutes. It was, it was a Friday evening,
• 59:03
  OK? They've been here all week.
• 59:05
  You know, I didn't want to do it on a Friday.
• 59:06
  I wanted to try to push it in the next week because it's
• 59:08
  Friday night, right? Right, so they want to get it
• 59:10
  over with. Exactly.
• 59:11
  They're getting texts. We're supposed to be at Uncle
• 59:13
  Bobby's whatever. But when they walked back in, I
• 59:16
  thought, OK, I'm about we're going to finish this.
• 59:18
  This is done, right. And then I thought about
• 59:21
  advocacy after I was already had my plan on what I was going to
• 59:23
  do next. And and the judge, you know, or
• 59:27
  not the judge, but his clerk read off, you know, Mr. Harrell
• 59:31
  guilty on one count of theft of government funds.
• 59:34
  And I heard my wife gasp so loud, man, that I had nightmares
• 59:38
  about that for a couple days. I'll I'll never forget it.
• 59:41
  And then every and we had the courtroom full all week.
• 59:44
  It was so bad. I think the marshals were
• 59:45
  getting frustrated because there's people in the hallways
• 59:48
  and but they all were like, it was a big.
• 59:51
  Story. I mean, if anybody looks it up,
• 59:52
  I mean, it's a big, big story because I think a lot of people
• 59:55
  are really confused about it. Yeah, yeah.
• 59:59
  And. And so I felt like personally,
• 1:00:01
  my legs were going to fall out under me, I thought.
• 1:00:03
  How in this country did I just get convicted of a felony for
• 1:00:06
  helping people? That was my first thought.
• 1:00:09
  And then my attorneys, they had told me at the beginning of
• 1:00:11
  trial, if you get convicted, you'll probably go to jail that
• 1:00:14
  day and especially in the district that I was in.
• 1:00:18
  So when they said that, I started to take my watch off,
• 1:00:21
  right? And, and my lawyers like now we
• 1:00:23
  have to try to keep you out. So he he says, Judge, I would
• 1:00:27
  ask that my client remain out on bond pending sentencing.
• 1:00:32
  And the judge smiled and said, one thing that we've learned
• 1:00:36
  here this week is that Mister Harrell is not a danger to this
• 1:00:39
  community. And he said, so I will allow Mr.
• 1:00:42
  Harrell and but they didn't give me an ankle monitor.
• 1:00:45
  I had no further restrictions. And the only thing the
• 1:00:48
  prosecutor said was my only ask is that he does not return back
• 1:00:53
  to Veterans Club until further notice.
• 1:00:56
  And so the judge was kind of like, well, what's further
• 1:00:58
  notice, you know, like you can't really do that.
• 1:01:00
  And, and the prosecutor was like, he was all he was like,
• 1:01:04
  they couldn't understand what's happening.
• 1:01:05
  He's like, well, I'm just going to need a couple days to, to
• 1:01:07
  figure it out. Ultimately he didn't get his
• 1:01:09
  wish, But but I left that day and didn't, I haven't still
• 1:01:16
  haven't heard from anybody from the court, but I just remember
• 1:01:20
  walking out and going, I'm a convicted felon And, and I've
• 1:01:26
  literally, I just, I mean, I just, you know, I, I didn't know
• 1:01:29
  what to tell the people that were there.
• 1:01:30
  They were everybody was shocked. But then I thought then I
• 1:01:35
  thought, well, wait a minute. Everybody expected a not guilty.
• 1:01:41
  But if somehow something happens later on that brings more
• 1:01:46
  awareness to this situation, that maybe a whole purpose
• 1:01:51
  behind this, right? So I started to switch my
• 1:01:54
  mindset to, OK, I just got hit in the face, right?
• 1:01:57
  Because that's what it felt like.
• 1:01:58
  Now I got to fight back, right? And and of course, my wife, I
• 1:02:02
  was trying to console her and I didn't realize how lucky I was
• 1:02:06
  to be able to walk out the courtroom because I just a
• 1:02:08
  guilty verdict was just in my head.
• 1:02:09
  And my attorneys, like Jeremy, you have goodwill with this
• 1:02:12
  judge, like the fact that you're leaving.
• 1:02:14
  And and I was like, what do you mean?
• 1:02:16
  Like I shouldn't, I shouldn't have, I should have been able to
• 1:02:18
  leave. Like, why is this a surprise?
• 1:02:20
  You know, I was, you know, obviously emotional at that
• 1:02:23
  point. But yeah, so, so after that
• 1:02:27
  happened, it was real quiet. You know, of course the news
• 1:02:30
  reported that they, they they killed me in the media.
• 1:02:34
  And, and you know, I, I couldn't tell my side of the story, which
• 1:02:38
  has been as an advocate. And it's the hardest thing in
• 1:02:43
  the world when you can advocate for thousands of people, but you
• 1:02:45
  can't advocate for yourself, right?
• 1:02:48
  So I'm, I'm seeing all these reports and I mean, it's on
• 1:02:50
  Reddit, it's everywhere, man. And I'm going, man, I have no
• 1:02:53
  privacy in my life, you know, and I'm going and I can't defend
• 1:02:56
  myself. I have, I have news reporters
• 1:02:59
  from all over Collins and Jeremy, we want to hear your
• 1:03:02
  side. We want to hear your side.
• 1:03:03
  So tempting, right, to get on there and tell my side, but my
• 1:03:06
  lawyers like, Hey, just, let's just not do that right now.
• 1:03:09
  And, and that's probably been the biggest argument between me
• 1:03:13
  and my attorneys really is when can I stand up for myself,
• 1:03:17
  right? Because it's tough.
• 1:03:19
  Yes, you're an attorney. Yes, you, you guys did a good
• 1:03:22
  job. But it's my life at the end of
• 1:03:24
  the day, you're going to go to your next case.
• 1:03:27
  I may go to prison. I'm, I'm going to be out of a
• 1:03:30
  ton of money, hundreds of thousands of dollars.
• 1:03:33
  You know, all this kind of stuff was going through my head.
• 1:03:35
  What? What do you think your
• 1:03:37
  sentencing was it? Is it the 8th?
• 1:03:39
  December 8th. September 9th.
• 1:03:41
  December 9th So what? What are the like the guideline
• 1:03:48
  parameters of of the what we think the judge is looking at?
• 1:03:53
  Well so it appears that I I will be I should have been a level
• 1:03:58
  14. I just got my PSR back.
• 1:04:03
  If something happened, they they added money.
• 1:04:05
  I don't know how they did that. We're trying.
• 1:04:06
  We're going to argue. That they always figure that
• 1:04:07
  out. But that put me up to just.
• 1:04:10
  To make it harder for the judge, yeah.
• 1:04:12
  Yeah. So that put me up to like a
• 1:04:13
  level 16, which I think carries 15 to 21 months.
• 1:04:18
  Obviously, we're going to try to get a non custodial, hopefully
• 1:04:21
  probation. It's very difficult to do that.
• 1:04:23
  That's a heck of a downward departure, but there's some
• 1:04:26
  good, good conduct factors in there.
• 1:04:28
  You've got a unbelievable goodwill.
• 1:04:29
  You're, you've served the country, you've fought and, and
• 1:04:34
  incredible war came back and, and, and I might be wrong about
• 1:04:39
  this, but I thought I remember one of our conversations that
• 1:04:42
  you went down to North Carolina to help people out with the
• 1:04:45
  hurricane relief. Is that part of my memory?
• 1:04:48
  Well, you're you're close. It was supposed to be North
• 1:04:51
  Carolina, but it was actually Florida.
• 1:04:53
  And, and before I get into that, I want the audience to know that
• 1:04:57
  that during the trial, the judge did make a motion on this rule
• 1:05:00
  29, which they usually deny. It's really just so the
• 1:05:03
  defendant gets an appeal upon conviction.
• 1:05:06
  And he held on to that ruling until October 8th.
• 1:05:10
  So from August 23rd to October 8th, he held on.
• 1:05:13
  Wasn't sure how he was going to do that.
• 1:05:14
  He could have easily, you know, acquitted me of all charges.
• 1:05:17
  So we're trying to figure that out.
• 1:05:18
  But yes, I, I went down to do so.
• 1:05:21
  One, one of the things I'm a chaplain with, with an
• 1:05:24
  organization that does disaster relief and they kept emailing me
• 1:05:27
  because of Hurricane Helene and Hurricane Milton.
• 1:05:30
  I originally wanted to go to North Carolina just because it's
• 1:05:32
  closer geographically to Kentucky, but they had enough
• 1:05:35
  people there. They asked me to go down to the
• 1:05:37
  Southwest Florida for Milton relief.
• 1:05:40
  And I called my attorney. I said, hey, do you think I can
• 1:05:44
  go do this? He said probably not.
• 1:05:45
  He said, but you can, you can ask.
• 1:05:47
  All I can say is no. And I said, well, who, who's my
• 1:05:49
  probation officer? He said, I don't know who your
• 1:05:52
  probation officer is. I said I don't either.
• 1:05:53
  Nobody's contacted me since I left court.
• 1:05:56
  And then I said, well, I'll call the guy who was my pretrial PO,
• 1:05:59
  right? So I called him.
• 1:06:00
  He said, yeah, I still am, but I'm not too worried about you.
• 1:06:03
  I said, well, here's the deal. I'd like to go do this if
• 1:06:05
  possible. And he said, well, I'll send an
• 1:06:07
  e-mail to the prosecutor. And I'm like, yeah, that's
• 1:06:08
  probably not going to work. Two hours later, I get a text
• 1:06:11
  message that says the AUSA approved your travel.
• 1:06:15
  And I said, well, that's too vague.
• 1:06:16
  I need more details before I get caught up in something.
• 1:06:18
  So I call him. I said, I appreciate that, but
• 1:06:21
  is there any reporting requirements?
• 1:06:23
  I said, because since I talked to you, it's now Florida, not
• 1:06:26
  North Carolina. He said, no, we don't need that.
• 1:06:29
  And I said, OK, OK, just want to be clear on that.
• 1:06:33
  And so, so I realized that this is a 15 hour drive.
• 1:06:37
  So I called back and said, hey, I found a flight that would be
• 1:06:39
  cheaper than gas for me to fly right in the airport 7 miles
• 1:06:43
  from the location I'm going. Can I do that?
• 1:06:44
  And he goes, yeah, like why would, why wouldn't you fly?
• 1:06:49
  He's like, it's, you know, I don't drive anything past 8
• 1:06:51
  hours anymore. And I'm like, well, I, I just
• 1:06:54
  didn't know, man. Like I don't know if I want to
• 1:06:56
  get caught up by Tsai. Don't know if there's any flags
• 1:06:59
  on me or anything like that. And he's like, no, you can fly,
• 1:07:01
  you should fly. So I did and I went through TSA.
• 1:07:06
  Fun fact is it was the Department of Homeland Security
• 1:07:08
  that helped this investigator investigate me.
• 1:07:11
  But my TSA pre-check was clear. I went through TSA pre-check, no
• 1:07:14
  issues. Went down there, spent seven
• 1:07:16
  days ministering the people who lost everything in the floods.
• 1:07:20
  I'm not sorry, not floods, but hurricanes that led in the
• 1:07:23
  floods. Did that come back and just come
• 1:07:27
  back to the House the. Reason I brought it up, Jeremy,
• 1:07:30
  is I think it's it says a lot to your character that you you got
• 1:07:33
  convicted in a crazy courtroom deal and you went in the midst
• 1:07:38
  of that to go back out to help people who were hurting down in
• 1:07:42
  in Florida. And I just, I think it just says
• 1:07:44
  a lot about who you are and where you are and, and what you
• 1:07:48
  think even when you've been hit upside the head, you know, I
• 1:07:54
  know you haven't gone to prison, but you have gone through one
• 1:07:57
  hell of a nightmare to this point.
• 1:08:01
  What do you think's your biggest take away through all this that
• 1:08:03
  you've gone through? Well, it, it, it kind of, kind
• 1:08:07
  of goes back to what the comment you just mentioned, the fact
• 1:08:10
  that, that I still had the desire to go help people.
• 1:08:12
  And one of the things that, that I'm taking away from this is
• 1:08:17
  they can do a lot to me, but they can't take my heart.
• 1:08:20
  They can't take my faith and they can't take my brain.
• 1:08:23
  And the, the, the biggest loss in all this would be if, if they
• 1:08:28
  had so much power over me that it, it, it, it made me quit
• 1:08:31
  doing what I know is right to do for others.
• 1:08:34
  And so I vow not to do that. I vow to continue serving
• 1:08:38
  others, continue doing what God would want me to do and just
• 1:08:40
  know that everybody that has a big impact and big story in the
• 1:08:44
  Bible, they all went to prison. I mean, that is a true story.
• 1:08:47
  I've seen the shirt the other day.
• 1:08:50
  It's that all my heroes have been in prison.
• 1:08:52
  It's got Paul and Peter and you know, and you know, I know we
• 1:08:57
  laugh about it, but the truth is it's like anybody who's ever
• 1:08:59
  stood for something, you know, there's there's been cost
• 1:09:02
  associated with that. And and it's just been created
• 1:09:05
  an opportunity for me to teach my kids that, listen, when you
• 1:09:08
  really stand up for what's right, it's not always well
• 1:09:11
  received, even though it's right.
• 1:09:13
  And in fact, it could become threatening to others.
• 1:09:15
  And so do it anyway, right? And and and so I'm going to
• 1:09:19
  continue. I'm even more fired up to do
• 1:09:22
  what I've always done. You know, I'm going to continue
• 1:09:25
  to do that because that's one thing that nobody can take from
• 1:09:27
  me. And I haven't been arrested yet
• 1:09:30
  at all, although I'm a convicted felon, which I think is just
• 1:09:33
  almost laughable. I've never been processed or any
• 1:09:36
  of that. But in the event that on
• 1:09:38
  December 9th, things don't go my way and I end up on my way to to
• 1:09:42
  a federal prison somewhere. My thought now is wherever I go,
• 1:09:47
  I want to be an asset to the to the other guys in there.
• 1:09:49
  I want to be able to share something with them that they
• 1:09:52
  can leave and be successful. And The funny thing is through
• 1:09:54
  my organization, one of the things we do is, is, is prison
• 1:09:57
  ministry. And I've been in a lot of
• 1:09:59
  prisons. In fact, we have a really good
• 1:10:01
  partnership with the, the biggest jail in Kentucky here
• 1:10:04
  where we go in and we, we deal with incarcerated veterans and,
• 1:10:08
  and I'm pretty good in that environment, which scares me.
• 1:10:11
  And you know, God will do strange things.
• 1:10:13
  But anyway, wherever I go is is I'll just try to be an asset and
• 1:10:17
  try to be helpful. For the and and Jeremy, you will
• 1:10:20
  be because of who you are and and how you've lived your life.
• 1:10:23
  I've always said that anybody that goes into prison, they'll
• 1:10:26
  get along in prison how they got along on the outside.
• 1:10:30
  That's good. And, and if you can get along
• 1:10:32
  with people and you can work with people and people like you
• 1:10:35
  and you, you give and then and all that, that's how it works on
• 1:10:39
  the inside. It's just a little bit more
• 1:10:40
  primitive because it's, it's, you know, it's different.
• 1:10:43
  But if you, if you, if you're, if you're a, a disturber and
• 1:10:47
  don't get along with people, you won't get along with people in
• 1:10:49
  prison. But if it does happen to you,
• 1:10:52
  which I'm hoping that you get probation, you will be a leader
• 1:10:57
  there too, because you're a leader.
• 1:10:58
  And you know, I mean, I, I think I, I've been inspired by you and
• 1:11:03
  your story and what you've done. And, and I think it's absolutely
• 1:11:06
  awful what's happened. We, we need people like you out
• 1:11:09
  here doing what you're doing, helping veterans to take you out
• 1:11:12
  of that game and to, and pull, pull you aside is just
• 1:11:16
  absolutely flabbergasting to me. But I do know that we live in a
• 1:11:20
  crazy world and no matter what, you're a survivor and you'll
• 1:11:25
  step through it. And I mean, you get a true a, a
• 1:11:28
  true nightmare success story. And I really appreciate you,
• 1:11:32
  Jeremy, coming on and and sharing it.
• 1:11:34
  And if people want to get a hold of you at the Veterans
• 1:11:37
  club.veteranclubs.org. It's it's a Veterans Club, Inc.
• 1:11:43
  Veterans Club, Inc. I hope everybody checks that out
• 1:11:46
  because it's a cool site. You got a great board of people
• 1:11:50
  on there. It goes into all the different
• 1:11:52
  things that you guys have done. I, I still don't know if I've
• 1:11:54
  seen that tiny home homeless thing anywhere else.
• 1:11:57
  I, I, I, I don't think I have, if I have, I don't not aware of
• 1:12:01
  it. I just think everything that
• 1:12:03
  you've done, Jeremy, you've used all your experiences of
• 1:12:06
  everything that you've gone through because you could have
• 1:12:08
  taken a, a left turn when you were a kid and ended up in a
• 1:12:11
  really bad, horrible situation. And you took that, you fought
• 1:12:15
  for a country, you got back, you had your own issues and you took
• 1:12:19
  your issues and became an expert on it and started helping people
• 1:12:22
  and helping the community and, and, and making it thrive.
• 1:12:25
  And I think it's a shame what's happened, But I also know that
• 1:12:29
  you're going to survive and work through it and, and be stronger.
• 1:12:32
  Even you're 1 strong son of a bitch, but you're going to be,
• 1:12:36
  you're going to be strong anyway.
• 1:12:38
  I will. I will tell you before we end.
• 1:12:39
  I will tell you that, you know, I see why people don't go to
• 1:12:43
  trial. Sitting through five days of
• 1:12:45
  that was probably one of the most highest forms of torture
• 1:12:48
  I've ever experienced. And I've been through a lot of
• 1:12:50
  stuff. Just to have people determine
• 1:12:52
  what you think and what you do and why you do what you do is
• 1:12:54
  very, very difficult. But you know, my pastor, you
• 1:12:57
  know, we sit out off and he says, he says, I said, I don't
• 1:13:01
  understand why this would happen to me.
• 1:13:02
  He says, as much as I don't want to, I could, I can.
• 1:13:05
  He goes, why wouldn't, why wouldn't God use you to, to give
• 1:13:09
  you even more of a story, to give you even bigger of a
• 1:13:11
  platform to go out and make change?
• 1:13:14
  Who, why wouldn't he use somebody who's done it instead
• 1:13:17
  of, and he knows you got the, the strength for it.
• 1:13:19
  And I'm like, I could think of other things to do.
• 1:13:21
  But nonetheless, you know, I got, I got to stay, I got to
• 1:13:24
  stay positive. I, I know that this is just a
• 1:13:27
  bump in the road. I told my attorney when they
• 1:13:29
  offered me a plea. I told my attorney to tell the
• 1:13:31
  prosecutor that I've I've wore uniforms and I've ate bad food
• 1:13:34
  for a long time in my life. That's not my main concern.
• 1:13:38
  I will stand for my integrity and who I am and my character as
• 1:13:41
  a man. I will not accept responsibility
• 1:13:43
  for something that I did not do. And so here we are.
• 1:13:46
  Here we are and I wish you the best of luck, Jeremy.
• 1:13:49
  When this goes out, there will already be a decision of where
• 1:13:52
  you are and maybe, maybe you get probation if the judge does the
• 1:13:55
  right thing with this situation because it should never have
• 1:13:57
  been where it is. But again, I, I, I so appreciate
• 1:14:02
  you. I appreciate what you've done
• 1:14:04
  for the veterans and fighting for the country and, and being
• 1:14:07
  who you are talking about gratitude.
• 1:14:09
  I, I want to give a shout out to Homestead financial home
• 1:14:13
  mortgage. And if you got home mortgage
• 1:14:16
  needs, Greg Aftyev is your guy. They let me use this podcast
• 1:14:19
  room here with all the fancy stuff that I barely know how to
• 1:14:21
  operate. If you need a book out there, I
• 1:14:25
  wrote one. It's a nightmare success.
• 1:14:26
  You can get it on Barnes and Noble and Amazon.
• 1:14:28
  Please check it out and if you got time, I know it's a hassle
• 1:14:32
  but if you leave a review on Apple it really helps the show
• 1:14:36
  to grow. If you want to know what I'm
• 1:14:37
  doing, check me out on brentcassidy.com.
• 1:14:39
  I spell it wrong, it's with a Ty, not a DY Would've loved to
• 1:14:43
  been the Shauna Davids, but I'm just the Ty guy and as I used to
• 1:14:47
  say when I was writing my emails back and forth from Leavenworth,
• 1:14:51
  stay strong, I'll do the same. Jeremy Harrell, you are a true
• 1:14:56
  warrior and I appreciate you man.
• 1:14:59
  Thank you Sir, appreciate you having me on.
• 1:15:00
  I enjoyed it. I'm your success in and out.