Latest / Zone2Speak Podcast / The Man Who Doesn’t Sleep: Sofiane Sehili on Ultra Cycling & the Art of Suffering

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The Man Who Doesn’t Sleep: Sofiane Sehili on Ultra Cycling & the Art of Suffering · Zone2Speak Podcast

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I'm going to win this. I feel like I can do it. And I'm going to win this.
0:02
I had no idea what it involved.
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But I had been so obsessed with doing this.
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And this is a promise that I made to myself eight years prior.
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And so when the race started, I was talking to you about all these hours spent hiking in the snow.
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I would do it. And I would certainly not enjoy it. But I would not be bothered by it.
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I was so dead set on moving forward. Then I was like, I was emotionless. I was like a robot.
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I was just like driven by the obsession. Yeah, you were programmed. Completely.
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I was unstoppable. I was like, for at least the first few days,
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I was, I mean, this was so important for me.
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In the world of ultra-cycling, a few names commend as much respect as Sofiane
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Sahili, known for his relentless drive, minimal sleep, and unmatched mental resilience.
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Sofiane has conquered some of the most grueling ultra-cycling races on the planet,
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from winning the Tour Divide in 2022 to clinching three consecutive victories
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at the Silk Road mountain race.
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His achievements are a testament to human endurance and determination.
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But Sofiane's journey is as fascinating as his victories.
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Starting as a bike master in Paris, he transitioned into ultra-cycling racing,
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driven by a passion for exploration and a desire to push his limits.
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Now based in the southwest of France, Sofiane continues to inspire with his
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adventures and insights into the world of ultracycling.
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In this episode, I will dive into Sofiane's incredible journey exploring the mindset,
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strategies, and stories behind his legendary status and his latest victory at
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Gravel Birds. Sofiane, welcome to Zone to Speak.
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Hey, Juliana. Thanks for having me on the podcast.
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Thank you for being here. I always feel like you're such a mystery man,
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So I'm so happy to have you here and have a little chat,
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So how did your experience as a bike messenger in Paris influence If any influence
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in your transition into ultra cycling?
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I think it gave me the keys to.
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The thing that you have to understand about being a bike messenger in a city
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like Paris Is that you have to go to work every day no matter what You have
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to get on your bike in the morning, whether it's raining or,
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snowing it's not it doesn't snow a lot in Paris but
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it happens but like any any weather you
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have to go out there you have to you have to do your job it
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doesn't stop because it's it's windy or rainy or super
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cold and it's it's pretty intense with a
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lot of traffic sometimes it's really fun like I
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love this job but other times I mean
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when you do it in the summer for me I was like
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I can't believe I'm getting I'm getting paid to do this it's so
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much fun but sometimes it's it's
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it's really a drag of course like i i have
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many memories of you know like december it's
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it's dark it's 5 p.m and you
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have to you have to go home in the in the
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in the freezing rain when everybody else is going home
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all the cars it's dark you you're just blinded by the by the headlights to the
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cars yeah it's like definitely not as fun as a as a nice uh summer day of of
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bicycle couriering But it teaches you that, yeah, you have to keep going no matter what,
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you know, it helps you build that resilience.
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And it's maybe something that I didn't have as a bike tour.
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You know, when you're bike touring, if you wake up and it's raining,
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and it's still the case today, like if I'm just on a bike tour and I wake up
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and it's raining, I'm just going to wait it out. I'm just going to wait for the rain to stop.
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And if I have to take like half a day of rest, I'll take a half a day of rest.
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But yeah, when you're a bike messenger, you can't really like call your boss
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and say, hey, sorry, I'm not going to go to work today because it's foul weather and I don't enjoy it.
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Yeah. I lived in New York and I had a friend who was a bike messenger.
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And I remember once he was saying that he actually had to carry a human eye
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to the hospital for a transplant.
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So, I mean, there are so many stories of bike messengers. It's really, really incredible.
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And yeah, I can't imagine like, you know, I think Paris and New York are similar
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in that way of fighting the traffic.
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Yeah. I never carried a human eye.
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I did carry oftentimes like blood samples and mental prosthetics.
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Wow. Yeah. So kind of similar. It's serious stuff that you're...
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We do work a lot with the medical world.
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I mean, they need things fast and we're there to deliver them.
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Read somewhere or heard somewhere that you also did some, before starting your
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ultra racing career, you went to Asia as well and did some bike touring there. Is that right?
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Yeah, that's pretty much how it all started. When I was around,
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I think I was 29 or 28, something like that.
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And I had this lifelong dream since I was probably a teenager,
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around 17 or 18, something like that, of visiting Southeast Asia.
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It's hard to pinpoint exactly why this part of the world, but I'd been fascinated
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by Southeast Asia and attracted to this region for a long, long time.
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And I always knew that someday I would go.
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And I was just waiting for the right moment. So the right moment is,
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well, basically when I was not studying, when I was not working.
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Just that I needed for the stars to align.
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And then at some point, it was not like exactly the perfect moment,
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but I get kind of tired of waiting for that perfect moment.
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And I was like, okay, I need to go now.
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The exact story is, so I spent a year away from Paris and then I got back to
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Paris and it can be quite hard to actually find a place to live in the city.
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So I would go through
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some ads trying to find a place to live and I found this cheap apartment in
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a quiet neighborhood that somebody was renting for just like three or four months
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because they were going on a motorbike tour in India.
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And I rented this apartment through the winter, and I was out of a job at this time.
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And I got pretty bored, actually, of just spending the winter in this quiet
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neighborhood of Paris, near the Eiffel Tower.
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I think it would be a really good place for tourists, but it's not such a good
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place when you're actually a Parisian.
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And during that winter, I was like, why am I here when this guy is riding a
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motorbike in India where it's sunny and warm?
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And I was like and I told myself you know what next year I won't be here I'll
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be the one that is away in a warm country tropical weather and I'll finally,
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achieve this lifelong dream of going away on a long long trip,
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in Southeast Asia at that time I had like a very very faint experience of what
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it's like to bike tour for a couple days.
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Wow. I was a keen urban cyclist. I would always ride places in Paris.
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I would ride. When I had a job, I would ride to work, sometimes even doing 15
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to 20 kilometers to get to work.
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Or if friends had a party somewhere really way outside of the city,
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I wouldn't be afraid of riding 20 or 30K.
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But I was a lot like an avid cyclist, you know, that goes out for like 100Ks on the weekend.
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But people were asking me, since they always saw me riding my bike,
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oh, when are you going to go on your trip? Are you going to ride a bike?
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Are you going to ride a bike?
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And I'm like, you know what? I don't know. I don't want to like leave.
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For Southeast Asia with a bike and then feel like I'm obligated to cycle when
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this has never really been my dream, you know?
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Yeah. And so I got there. I started, I had a backpack and I was already traveling super light.
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Like people are always amazed by how light I travel whenever I bike tour.
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But even when I was just backpacking, I was like so light.
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I mean, I immediately, as soon as I started traveling, I learned how to pack like the bare minimum.
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And I started hopping on buses, trains, tuk-tuks.
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I had my Lonely Planet. I would check the schedules.
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I would, you know. And where did you go first? So I landed at Bangkok and then
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I made my way up north all the way to the Laos border and Nongkai across the border.
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So Vientiane is just like right on the other side of the border,
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stayed a little bit in Vientiane.
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And I felt like I was not really getting the experience that I was looking for,
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that it all seemed like too on the beaten track.
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So I decided to get a bus to a place called Luang Nam Tao, which is all the
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way up north in Laos near the Chinese border.
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And that bus was supposed to take 12 hours to get there. And it actually took like 24 hours.
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It was like a nightmare trip.
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I got on the bus it was supposed to leave around
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2pm at like 5pm for reasons
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that we never really understood and
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then after like one hour on the road the tire
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exploded it took a couple of
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hours to change the tire and then
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it was quite flat at the beginning then the next day when we were like really
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in the mountains and there were like long steep climbs the bus had to stop like
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every 30 minutes because the engine was overeating so they had to find water
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to like drop buckets of water on the engine to make sure my gosh what a nightmare yeah.
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And there was I think only one driver for the whole trip and he had to make
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sure that he would not fall asleep when driving us so all through the night
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he was playing like really loud pop music,
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and nobody cared. Everybody was sleeping.
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Obviously, I couldn't sleep because of the loud music. I was sitting all the
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way in the back of the bus.
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I had people leaning on me, sleeping. I was like, this is wild.
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This is really wild. I'm like, okay. So after that trip, I'm like, okay, this happened.
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I get that maybe in a few years, I will laugh about this, but I just can't keep doing that.
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You'll be faster on a bike. I bought a bike.
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I bought a second-hand bike from a rental shop, and that's how it all started.
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In Laos, I think that was around 14 or 15 years ago now, I bought this second-hand
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mountain bike in a rental shop, and I started bike touring, and I never looked back.
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Amazing. Wow. Wow.
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And then from this amazing tour in Southeast Asia, when was your first ultra cycling race?
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Can you share a little bit about that story?
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What drew you to this demanding sport?
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It was six years after my first bike touring trip. So some people discover bike
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touring or cycling, and then they immediately get into ultra.
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I was not really that kind of guy. I was really content to ride my bike for
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100 kilometers at a time on nice paved roads.
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I mean, all of my early bikepacking trips were in Southeast Asia,
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so pretty easy. There's lots of places where you can eat, find... Food.
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Yeah, really good food, cheap hotels. So it was like really leisurely bike touring,
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not too many kilometers.
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And so I was really content to do that for a while.
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And then I think it was a mix of that experience and becoming a bike messenger.
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And when I became a bike messenger...
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It was the first time that I was riding with people, and I was among cyclists.
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And it was the first time that I actually understood that I had some above average
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physical abilities, especially in terms of endurance.
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Speed, yes, I was among the fastest, but I can't say that I was the fastest,
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but I was definitely among the fastest.
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But endurance for sure like
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i could i could go on and on and on and on when others.
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Were getting tired and then it it kind
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of created an itch you know i was like okay
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i think i'm i might be good at that and i
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went to canada to
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take on the great the great divide mountain bike route
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i i was the bike messenger at
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that time so i asked for i think it
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was like three weeks of of paid leave and an
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extra week of unpaid leave uh so that i
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could tackle the whole route in one go but it was
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still like i had 30 days which is still uh actually qualifies
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as uh if you if you ride the road in 30 days
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it qualifies like like a race finish you know it means
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there you're uh you're yeah around like
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double the time of the winner so it's it's considered like
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a race pace which i had no idea about at that
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time i was like for me i was like you
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know fit fit 30 30 something
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year old bike messenger used to ride for
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400k a week and i was i
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was out there on a on a on a bike tour just to discover this.
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Route that has fascinated me for a long time that
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i've been curious to ride and i would meet like
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other tours and we'd be like oh okay so you
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only have one month to do the whole thing and for me i
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was like well yeah it's okay it's just like 150k a
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day you know and that's it well that's that's
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a lot and you know i was like yeah maybe it
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is i don't know i mean it's just what i have and i want to do the whole thing
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so that's what i'll do yeah sometimes when you go blinded and you don't overthink
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it's i mean it's still a big task but if you don't overthink and just do it
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it's yeah and that's and that's that's what i did and then that's that's when i realized that, I mean.
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Maybe I could give it a go seriously as a racer.
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So that was 2014. And I kind of wanted to go back the next year,
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but I injured myself training for it.
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So I was in 2016.
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So that was my first ever backpacking race, which coincidentally was also my
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first ever bike race. So I never...
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And I managed to finish third. Wow.
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Fairly encouraging results. I was like, okay, even though I messed up a lot,
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even though I made a ton of mistakes, even though I had no idea what I was doing,
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I still managed to finish third.
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There's something there. Yeah, if I keep at it, I can go back and I can finish
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first. And that's how I got into this sport of bikepacking.
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I think it was a little bit by accident because at that time in 2016,
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the landscape of ultracycline was definitely not the same.
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There was only just a few races, maybe five or six.
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And you weren't really getting into that sport as a sport.
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You were getting into that, okay, I want to do this race and this race.
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And then, yeah, that's nice. You know that these are my goals and then I'll
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do whatever I want with my life. that are related to these endeavors.
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But as I got more seriously into this, the sport developed and I kept doing races.
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I mean, a lot of the races that I was doing, they were kind of like to get experience,
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to be better and win Tour Divide someday.
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And this is how I ended up becoming an ultra professional, ultra cyclist.
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Incredible. I love your story.
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Talking about Tour Divide, your win in 2022 is a monumental achievement.
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What were the key factors that you think you contributed to your success in this race?
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From your first race in 2016, you said? So four years later.
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Well, no. Six. Six years earlier. Yeah.
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I followed the race quite closely. I started following it actually after my first great divide.
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So I've been following it for about 10 years.
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And I also heard about previous tour divides when I started getting interested in that event.
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And what I can say about 2022 is that it was weather-wise one of the worst years
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ever in the history of tour divides.
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So basically it started with
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pretty much all of the passes from canada
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to wyoming being snowed in that's a lot of kilometers yeah that would require
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i mean i i made the calculation afterwards when i was whenever when i was over
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the the snow it required sometimes like,
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30 minutes of hiking, sometimes one hour, one time, like two and a half hours of hiking.
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And in the end, I think I totaled around just 10 hours of pushing my bike,
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post-hulling in the snow to cover all of the Snowden passes.
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Then as soon as I cleared all of these Snowden passes, I hit the Wyoming Great
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Basin, which is infamous for its winds.
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And the thing is, the headwind that superlaced top stops when you reach Colorado, it didn't.
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So I had to cross the Great Basin of Wyoming and then pretty much all of Colorado with the headwind.
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Believe me, that's many kilometers and that's a few days.
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And when I finally cleared Colorado and hit New Mexico, I was hit by an early monsoon.
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It's kind of rare that it rains in New Mexico like end of June it really usually
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rains around like mid-July but and they had like they were like in the middle of a drought they had.
24:00
Fires it hadn't rained for a while and then as soon
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as I hit New Mexico it started raining like crazy
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and I got I got caught in a
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in a stretch of the
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route that is usually avoided by
24:16
tour divide because it's it's subject to
24:19
flash floods and peanut butter mud oh no
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and it was included on this year's route because it was like so dry that they
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felt that there was there was absolutely no risk that it was gonna gonna rain
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and of course as soon as i as i got there it started raining so i was unlucky
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to hit some what they call death mud,
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and a few sketchy river crossings because as soon as it starts raining, yeah, these,
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dry riverbeds, they.
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The water doesn't really get in the soil.
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It just slides on the really non-porous clay.
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And then all of that water, it has to go somewhere at some times.
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And so that's why there's a possibility of flash floods there.
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And it did rain a lot during my crossing from New Mexico.
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So basically, I had very few days
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where I could enjoy like nice
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weather and easy easy
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going you know and i think that the key to the
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key to my to my victory there is that
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so it was my uh my third attempt
25:33
at tour divide and i
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had already a pretty successful career in
25:39
uh in bikepacking but for me it
25:43
didn't really like that all of these successes didn't really mean anything if
25:49
they weren't tied to a victory on Tour de Vida because Tour de Vida is the reason
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that I got into the sport and when I got into the sport I didn't like get into
25:59
it saying you know I'm going to be a successful.
26:03
Bikepacker I'm going to win this and this I was like well now I'm going to win Tour de Vida,
26:09
you just had this tunnel vision then you just reached this is it nothing's gonna
26:16
stop you and it's funny because,
26:19
it's kind of ridiculous because when I told that to myself I had no idea that
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what I was capable of and that I could actually and that I would eventually
26:28
win to survive but I was like yeah I'm gonna win this I feel like I can do it
26:32
and I'm gonna win this I had no idea what it involved but,
26:35
but I had been like so obsessed with doing this and this is a promise that I,
26:41
made to myself 8 years prior And so when the race started, I was talking to
26:49
you about all these hours spent hiking in the snow. I would do it.
26:55
And I would certainly not enjoy it. But I would not be bothered by it.
27:01
I was so dead set on moving forward. Then I was emotionless.
27:09
I was like a robot. I was just driven by the obsession. Yeah,
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you were programmed. Completely.
27:16
I was unstoppable. I was like, for at least the first few days,
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I was, I mean, this was so important for me.
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This was, I was like, okay, I'm here.
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And you have to understand that, you know, to go to Canada, to raise total vibe,
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this is a big commitment.
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This is a big commitment in terms of the time that you're going to spend.
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Time, financial, emotional. The energy that you're going to spend.
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Obviously, the money, as you said, it's financially a big commitment.
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And I was like, okay, this is my third time here.
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Every time it takes, yeah, a lot of time, a lot of money, a lot of energy. I have to make it count.
27:56
You know, I don't want to have to go back like a fourth time,
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a fifth time. Like this time is the time.
28:02
And especially like, because the more you go, the less fun you have.
28:07
Because let's be honest, you start knowing these places pretty well.
28:11
And some of these places on Tour de Valle, I'm sorry to say,
28:16
they can be quite dull. Very isolated, right?
28:20
Very isolated, not always very diverse, and sometimes quite barren.
28:26
And yeah, I mean, if people have been to the States or only just seen movies,
28:33
You can really imagine like these really long,
28:38
wide gravel roads that seem like never ending and you ride there and sometimes
28:44
it takes 8, 9, 10 hours for the landscape to change.
28:50
And it's like in a way, it's fascinating. But when you've been there three or
28:55
four times, it gets less and less fascinating. I mean, to me,
29:01
I'm not going to say that it's a general thing.
29:04
Some people do Tour Divide every year, and they love it, and to each their own.
29:09
For me, I need, I think, more diversity, more variety.
29:14
And at some point, it's just like, I was like, okay, I have to make it count.
29:19
And so I was unstoppable for the first few days. As soon as I would see the
29:23
snow and hop off my bike, I would start pushing, pushing, pushing, just never stopping.
29:29
And then, yeah, after probably a week or so, when I reached Wyoming, I had a good lead.
29:37
And then it was just a matter of making sure that I would keep moving to keep
29:42
that lead and make it to the finish in first place. But honestly, it was hard.
29:50
I have very few good memories of that ride because it was so taxing with the weather.
29:56
And and sadly as i said
29:59
the new mexico went through
30:01
a drought and they had fires so the the new mexican part of fortified was shortened
30:08
which is a shame because it's it's probably my favorite and and i and i missed
30:13
some of the really really nice spots that i that i like on the on fortified
30:16
but but yeah in the end i i made it and i and i uh.
30:21
I don't like to use the word dream because I don't...
30:26
For me, I like to make a distinction between a dream and an ambition.
30:30
For me, a dream is something that you don't necessarily work toward with.
30:34
It works toward with. It's something that you dream of. Oh, it wouldn't us if it happened.
30:40
Whereas an ambition is like, okay, you put your mind to it and then you go.
30:44
You set the goal. You set the goal and you work hard.
30:48
So I would not say that it was a dream, but it was an ambition.
30:51
And i finally did it and i was like okay now
30:55
that it's done i don't have to go back i was
30:58
gonna ask yeah when you finished and you won was that all that you expected
31:06
that you would feel and then what did you think of like okay what's next now
31:11
yeah so winning people i think people that experience winning in different ways.
31:17
Listeners might imagine that when an athlete wins something,
31:24
it feels like a tremendous achievement and it fills him with incredible joy.
31:30
It's not really the case for me.
31:33
For all of my well, not all of my wins, but all of my big wins, I did feel that.
31:46
Spark of really very intense joy but
31:49
it's it's usually it usually lasts like maybe a few
31:52
seconds you know and then it's just for me
31:55
it's that feeling is more about mission
31:58
accomplished you know because i set
32:02
out to do that stuff and i
32:05
feel like i have what it takes to achieve
32:08
it and if i
32:11
don't it's a failure but if
32:14
i do it's just like how things are supposed to
32:17
be you know and i'm not saying
32:20
that i'm like unhappy or indifferent i'm just
32:23
saying that i'm not ecstatic for days
32:26
you know right i do i do usually like yeah whenever i i see the end you know
32:33
like before the last like three or four hundred meter and you can see the end
32:39
and you know that it's done it's like you check the box you put that goal,
32:44
you check the box, feels good yes of course it does feel like,
32:48
it does feel good but it's not,
32:52
something that I feel ecstatic about.
32:56
I'm very happy that it happened but I think that one thing that,
33:03
listeners, I have to understand about Ultra and about bikepacking is that the
33:11
joy of winning lasts for just a few seconds but the joy of riding,
33:17
it lasts for days because you're out there for days,
33:20
you know and during these days you're going to experience many and many
33:25
hours of just being like really, really happy that you're out there doing your thing.
33:30
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I mean, I haven't won any ultra cycling race,
33:35
but I did a lot of gravel race.
33:37
And when I was racing a lot, some of the gravel races, they weren't as popular
33:41
as is now, and it wasn't as fast.
33:44
So I think that's why I had the chance on the podium a few times.
33:48
But my experience was kind of a similar. Of course, it felt good.
33:55
But riding the bike was the bigger joy. And on ultracycline,
34:00
for me, I felt that when I'm enjoying, especially that I do a lot of pairing
34:04
with Juliet, I just have the most fun.
34:07
For me, that's the best part, you know, being together with my cycling BFF.
34:13
Yeah, it's definitely, for me,
34:15
it's the high. I'm just listening you say walking 10 hours on snow passes.
34:21
It's incredible the mental resilience that you have of setting this goal and
34:28
nothing is going to stop you. I really applaud that.
34:33
It's not anyone that has it, obviously. Otherwise, there will be many other
34:38
people, you know, not sleeping and going through all these gnarly races.
34:45
Speaking of gnarly races silk road
34:48
what kept you going back
34:52
to to the silk road what what is so special about that and you won that three
34:58
years on a row right i did which always every time i hear that it seems unreal
35:04
yeah like wow yeah it's true like what like really three times big road In a row? Wow, okay.
35:12
It seems, because, yeah, I mean, of course I did it, but it took me,
35:16
obviously it took me three years to do it, which is a long time.
35:20
And then it just takes like a second to say why.
35:25
It's a good question. And the answer is twofold. First of all, I just love it out there.
35:32
Kyrgyzstan is a magical place. Kyrgyzstan is amazingly beautiful.
35:38
If you like mountains, and I think if you like bikes, there's a good chance
35:43
that you like mountains.
35:44
Or maybe I should say if you're human, there's a good chance that you like mountains
35:48
because I can't really imagine that you can be human and not be moved by the
35:54
beauty of a mountainous landscape.
35:57
And yeah, it is some of the most beautiful mountains in the world, I think.
36:02
And it is also a special place in that the people there, they live like they've
36:10
been living for centuries.
36:12
They take their yurts, they leave the valley in the summer to go to the green pastures at Elevation.
36:22
And they take their sheep Their horses And they're just Yeah,
36:29
they just live their lives In their yurts without,
36:34
Electricity, without Phones, without Cars sometimes And it's just like a very
36:41
Simple life and you travel In space to get To Kyrgyzstan and then you're there
36:47
And you feel like you've also traveled in time Because you witness the way of life
36:52
that is centuries old, that hasn't changed since I don't even know when.
36:59
And I like to go there and tour a little bit before to acclimatize to elevation,
37:05
but also like to just like enjoy the country and get into its rhythm and have
37:12
the time to do something more than just racing.
37:16
And I go there and I either ride to the start or I just bike tour and then go
37:24
back to Bishkek if the race starts in Bishkek.
37:26
And yeah I stay I stay in yurts and here I am and I don't have any cell reception
37:33
and I go to bed early and I read a book and I'm like away from from.
37:40
All the modern distractions that we have in our societies and it's just like
37:45
it's an amazing trip and people there are like some of the most hospitable that you can.
37:52
Imagine and it's,
37:56
just a beautiful magical place and this is why I kept going back because every time I was there I.
38:06
I experienced like the intense joy of feeling that I have some of the most beautiful
38:14
landscapes in the world and I have them all to myself because obviously,
38:18
all of the places that are very mountainous are scarcely
38:21
populated and so a lot of
38:24
times it's just like riding out there completely by yourself
38:27
there's not a single living soul for tens of kilometers and it's just like that
38:34
and it's something that I always chase when I'm on the bike it's that feeling
38:38
of being alone in the world and yeah and I mean I always I often make that,
38:46
comparison that when you go somewhere to experience beauty that has been created by men Yeah.
38:54
Like if you go to Florence or if you go to Paris or if you go to some of the
39:00
main attractions that I went to in Southeast Asia, like Angkor Wat,
39:05
you see some beautiful, beautiful stuff, but you don't really have that luxury
39:11
of having them all to yourself.
39:13
And it's kind of hard for me to really focus on the emotions that beauty can
39:23
generate in your heart and your soul.
39:27
If you have kind of the noise and visual pollution of having other tourists
39:33
taking pictures and chatting,
39:36
of course it's beautiful to see Florence, but you're seeing it with hundreds
39:43
of thousands of people which can't ruin the experience to me whereas when you're
39:48
out there by yourself in Kyrgyzstan,
39:51
it's just there for me, only me and I feel like it's just the best.
40:00
And then the second reason why I kept going is because the first time that I
40:05
went of course I won but it was a hard fought battle with punctures and mechanicals,
40:13
I had a great experience, but I didn't feel like I went as fast as I could.
40:19
And then the second time that I went, as I said, I liked to tour the course
40:25
before and I decided to do it.
40:27
But I had raced Tour Divider just a month prior and I was still,
40:31
I think, fairly tired from that.
40:34
And while touring prior to the start, I got ill and I.
40:39
Recovered just in time to be able to start the race, but I didn't recover fully.
40:45
So when I started the race, I was definitely not 100%. So I took it really easy
40:52
for the first two, three days just to make sure that I would stay in contention.
40:56
And then as I felt that I'd gotten better and that illness was behind me,
41:01
I was able to step on it and take the lead.
41:06
And I was able to hold on to that lead all the way to
41:09
the finish but again after the race i felt like
41:12
i didn't given the race my best effort that it
41:15
i didn't like it didn't go as well
41:18
as that as i wanted as i wanted it to go and
41:21
so i decided to go back for a third year and
41:25
be like okay maybe this time i won't be i
41:29
won't be ill and i won't have mechanicals and i would be able to
41:32
to to to give my best you
41:34
know i was i was really keen on
41:38
on giving giving it uh my best and see
41:40
how far i can how fast i could be on this course amazing well you just made
41:48
me really want to go now there not for the race but for bikepacking i would
41:53
love to i'm planning southeast asia i haven't done that on a bike.
41:58
I really want to go Southeast Asia for the food and it's affordable.
42:04
But like you said.
42:07
I just also love the solitude and just really be, it's just a feeling that,
42:14
I mean, you said it so beautifully, but it's so hard to describe,
42:17
you know, when you are in nature without many people.
42:21
And especially, you know, like you're describing the villages there and then
42:25
how people are still living the same way for so many generations and so many years.
42:31
It sounds really, really magical love to experience. So I'll put that on my ambition list.
42:37
How about life beyond racing? When you are not racing, what does a typical day look like for you?
42:43
How do you balance training, recovery, and your personal time?
42:47
Well, as I said, I'm a professional ultra cyclist now.
42:51
I've been for, I think, it's my fifth year now. It's a pretty good life.
42:57
There's no routine. I mean, as you said in your introduction,
43:01
I now live in the southwest of France.
43:04
This is a fairly recent change. I moved from Paris about a year and a half ago,
43:10
almost two years ago now.
43:11
So now that I live here, like I would say a typical day for me,
43:16
like I wake up since I'm not an office worker and I don't have like a tight schedule.
43:24
I can take my time in the morning. I usually do take my time in the morning.
43:29
I like to do a little crossword puzzles before I take my breakfast. And I have my coffee.
43:37
Sometimes I make bread, not in the morning, but before. And then I eat it in the morning.
43:45
And then it's just going to depend on if I have things that I need to work on
43:52
in the house, which happens quite a lot since I move.
43:58
Or if I have, for example, calls that I need to do with the sponsors.
44:05
And then I go usually train in the afternoon.
44:11
I don't build endurance over riding around my house.
44:18
If I have to go for really long rides, I like to plan either a week-long trip
44:26
or a weekend, like three days.
44:30
I will leave from my house. We have mountains that are kind of close by,
44:37
like a day riding, and I get to the mountains.
44:40
So I ride one day in the flats towards the end of the day.
44:44
I'll start climbing, and then I'll ride one day in the mountains,
44:48
and then I'll go back home.
44:50
And that's like if I need to do long rides, I'd much rather do that than just
44:54
leave my house early morning, go for turn 50, and then go back home.
45:00
So whenever I train around my house, it's going to be more like intensity.
45:05
I'm going to go for 100K tops. And oftentimes, I'm going to go for 50,
45:11
60, 70 and just try to push hard on the pedals.
45:15
And then, yeah, I'm... Do you work with a coach at all? Or are you doing... No, no, I don't.
45:22
I don't work with a coach. I don't think I'm really into it.
45:27
You know you got the recipe right so why
45:30
change it yeah and it's it's as
45:33
i said there's not there's no real routine because that's what's
45:36
going to happen sometimes and then i'm going to have to to travel
45:40
for a sponsor or i'm gonna just go
45:44
go on a bikepacking weekend with my girlfriend
45:46
or then the racing season is gonna start and and
45:50
then it's going to be more about recovering between races than
45:53
actually training and and it's just i
45:55
tried it i tried having a coach then i
45:59
i found out that uh when you
46:03
have a coach and you
46:06
start focusing on your numbers a
46:09
lot i mean for me at least it
46:12
it takes some of the joy out of
46:15
the ride and and i'm like when i
46:18
had a coach i would i would go and
46:21
i would i would try to be very diligent in staying
46:24
in the in the power zones that that he prescribed
46:28
and then i would i would spend too much
46:31
time looking at my computer not a not enough
46:34
time like enjoying nature for me bike
46:38
riding is still and will always be about enjoying
46:41
being outside and so i was like okay this
46:44
is not really working out this is not working out because
46:47
i'm too hard to coach because i'm always somewhere doing
46:51
something i'm like yeah sometimes.
46:54
I don't have a car i live in the countryside without cars me too yay yeah i
47:01
love it just bike yeah it's great yeah it's great and so yeah it's like like.
47:07
I don't want to i don't like the the constraints It's, you know,
47:11
that having a coach actually comes with and I do my thing.
47:18
I probably would be a bit faster if I had some structured training, but...
47:25
I'm okay. I'm okay. I still win races.
47:30
So as long as it works, you know.
47:34
Yeah, I think, you know, everyone needs to find what works for them.
47:37
And even for me, I do have a coach and I like that because I like my routine
47:43
and I like the structure.
47:45
But once in a while, I do have to say, like, I just want free riding.
47:50
I can't just also be looking and I just want to get on my bike and ride.
47:53
I don't want to think about anything.
47:55
And you talked a little bit about your sponsors and you're sometimes on the road.
48:00
How do you make gear choices? How do you think your sponsors contribute to your performance?
48:08
Sorry, it's a little bit loaded question.
48:12
I feel like backpacking is a discipline
48:15
where a lot of things work you know
48:18
a lot of things work and it
48:21
comes down to what you do with the things you're given you know and it's something
48:30
that's what's really nice about ultra and bikepacking is like if you look if
48:36
you look at the races and if you look at the winners yeah you're going to fight
48:40
carbon bikes you're going to find steel titanium
48:44
alloy all of the bikes are there
48:47
if you if you look at the if you
48:50
follow dot watchers on instagram and you
48:54
look at their their posts about you know rigs of
48:57
this race and that race sometimes it's just wild all
49:01
the setups you see you know yeah and uh yeah i
49:04
mean anything actually works one by two by some
49:08
people are like very specific about what they
49:10
want to people as like total like gear nerds yeah
49:14
i'm not i'm not really that that that type you know
49:16
i i like bikes i like i take
49:19
care of my bikes i build them i maintain them i like them i like putting in
49:24
the work and and and being my own mechanic but in the end you know i mean i'll
49:29
ride with the i'll find i'll find joy in whatever bike i'm riding you know It's in the end.
49:39
When you're out there and you're riding in the landscape that you love and you're
49:46
enjoying that great feeling of.
49:50
Being one with nature and not having any pollution that acts as a filter between
49:58
you and the outside and you're really present in the moment and you're just
50:02
like really happy of seeing what you see in your pedaling.
50:07
You don't really think of the kind of bike you're riding, you know?
50:10
You don't really think of like if you're riding like one by or two by 11 or 12 speed,
50:16
like what kind of tires do you have and do you have a suspension or not i mean
50:21
no no you're just like happy to be there happy to be outside happy to be riding
50:25
your bike and uh and i mean i started i started,
50:30
bike touring as i said with a second-hand uh rental bike yeah from a from a shop in laos,
50:37
and i bought it for a hundred dollars so you can imagine how
50:40
a beat up it was and how bad it was to start
50:43
with yeah and it was and it
50:46
was terrible and and i and it started falling apart after just three days but
50:52
still you know it was it was riding a bike and it and it introduced me to that
50:57
life even it was if it was a shitty bike it was still very enjoyable so i don't really.
51:05
Pay much attention to to to that
51:08
kind of stuff i like that because also
51:12
for me when i'm riding a bike it makes me
51:14
feel like i'm a kid again and when you're a kid you don't care you just
51:17
want to ride your bike it's just such a good feeling but
51:20
you you said you survive with
51:23
the minimum is there anything in this
51:27
minimal that you need that you can share that you always have with you like
51:32
this one thing that can be missed there's like one luxury item that i will Always
51:39
travel with And that will always be In my frame bag Except I.
51:47
When i'm racing because when i'm racing then it's like really
51:50
really like the yeah the
51:53
minimum that i need to survive but whenever i'm
51:56
i'm bike touring if you're even if i'm just leaving for a couple days i always
52:01
have my my e-reader with me i like i like to go to i like to to read a to read
52:07
before i go to where i go to sleep and do you sleep well not when i race but yeah but But, you know,
52:15
it's just like racing is just a little bit of my time spent on a bike.
52:20
But I do bike tour a lot. And I always bring my e-reader, always happy to read
52:28
a little bit before I go to bed.
52:30
And I think that's probably the one thing that most people don't carry when
52:37
they go out for a bikepacking trip.
52:41
And that will always stick with me.
52:44
Yeah that's a that's something i need to
52:47
look into it when we go bike touring i'm always thinking of
52:50
the weight yeah and i'm like oh i don't want to carry a
52:53
book so i should look into one of those devices
52:56
yeah they're really neat actually that's uh
52:59
i i started 15 years ago
53:02
because as i said i love to read and and so
53:05
during my first trip i brought a few books but it
53:08
was a three months long trip so you can
53:11
read many books in three months yes so i brought a few books and i would read
53:15
them and then i would obviously leave them uh somewhere because you know once
53:20
they're they're written i don't want to carry the weight for nothing yeah and
53:25
then when i when i read them all i started to to pick up books like in guest houses.
53:31
And it's just not the same because you end up reading, you have like a very
53:36
narrow choice and you end up reading books that are not that good.
53:41
And then I was like, okay, I need to find a better solution.
53:45
And then I looked at Kobo and Kindle and I was like, yeah, that's the perfect
53:50
thing because I can carry like an entire library and it just weighs like 150 grams.
53:57
And so I didn't have an e-reader for my first,
54:01
ever trip but as for my second one i was like yeah i
54:04
i'll buy one and uh and i've always
54:08
had one since then great idea i'm gonna look into it we
54:11
just met at gravel bird so just want to touch quickly on
54:15
this it's your second time going to portugal what
54:18
brought you back and how was your experience at gravel birds
54:21
i had a really nice
54:26
time my my first for my first event
54:29
in portugal which was the goats in
54:32
2022 it was the end of
54:35
the of a long season for me so I showed up
54:38
was just the the intention of of finishing riding riding all day and maybe part
54:46
of the night but stopping every night to get at least like six to eight hours
54:51
sleep so not really touring but kind of like fast touring.
54:57
And it was great, I loved it, I love Portugal, I like that.
55:02
That mediterranean feeling you know where life seems
55:05
pretty slow and i like all
55:08
these the i like the fact that any village is
55:11
gonna have a is gonna have a cafe a bar and that
55:14
it's gonna be open no matter what and people are
55:17
gonna be there and sometimes it's it's a
55:20
really small village but still there's like two bars and both
55:24
bars of people in there and you're like whoa okay this
55:28
is not like that where i'm from and i like that kind of
55:30
atmosphere and and as i as
55:33
i said i like that feeling of of
55:36
uh of being alone and i feel like portugal
55:40
as soon as you go off the coast and you go
55:42
inland it's pretty quiet you know yeah
55:45
and that's definitely what i what i experienced during
55:48
gravel birds in alentejo people don't
55:52
know alentejo it's it's south of portugal it's
55:55
uh it's not extreme south because it's extreme south
55:58
is like the southern tip is algarve but alantejo
56:01
is like right north of algarve and
56:05
it's in surface it's an area it's like 30 percent of portugal and a population
56:10
it's not even 10 i think it's around 7 so it's pretty big and it's pretty empty
56:16
and and and that's and that's something that's that's not easy to find in europe.
56:22
And so this is why I liked it so much, because Portugal is a gravel paradise.
56:28
There's a crazy amount of gravel roads. I've never seen anything like it anywhere
56:33
else in Europe. There's gravel roads everywhere.
56:36
And oftentimes, they're quite smooth.
56:39
And that's why I had a lot of fun on gravel birds.
56:43
Yeah, not many people go to gravel. The one thing about Portugal, it's steep.
56:49
They like to make their road really steep. So you need to be prepared for that.
56:54
And at some point it gets a bit tiring, but it's a great place for gravel riding.
57:00
Yeah, I love it. I mean, my husband, Miguel, who was also gravel birds,
57:04
he's Portuguese. So we spent a lot of time there and we have done a lot of bikepacking together.
57:10
And yeah, I can't get tired of Alentejo.
57:15
It's just so nice and you describe it perfectly as it is. So I just have a few
57:21
final rapid-fire questions. All right.
57:26
Bivi or hotel? Hotel. Croissant or pain au chocolat?
57:31
Pain au chocolat, but here we say chocolatine. Chocolatine, yes.
57:37
Climbs or descends? Climbs. Music or silence while riding? Music.
57:44
Sunrise ride or sunset spin? Sunset spin. Bucket list country to ride in Mongolia Chile.
57:55
Algeria,
57:56
Philippines, and that's pretty much it. Nice. Well, I'm planning Philippines next year. Nice.
58:03
Most epic, this can be real, quote-unquote, race moment. Whoa.
58:09
I should prepare for these kind of questions because I've been in so many races.
58:13
It's okay if you're not ready. We can skip it.
58:16
All right, let's skip it. I'll come back to it afterwards. I'll start to think of something.
58:21
One word that describes ultracycling. Hard. One.
58:26
It is. It is, yeah. It works for anyone. Anyone will tell you it's hard. Yeah, that's true.
58:34
Well, that's all I have. It's been a pleasure. I'm so happy to chat with you.
58:39
Yeah, I'm just trying to find an answer to that. Yeah, I can see you thinking.
58:44
What's the question exactly again? Most epic, quote-unquote,
58:49
this can't be real race moment. This can't be real.
58:55
Well there's there's several ways to
58:58
interpret that but it's
59:01
probably it's probably not going to be the right answer because
59:04
but it's there's no wrong answer that that pops
59:08
into my like right away but towards
59:11
the end of of gravel birds so as
59:15
as i describe alentejo it's it's
59:19
pretty empty very rural lots
59:22
of not lots of them but a few small villages
59:26
where there's going to be a bar there's also going to be like a bench with two
59:32
or three old people sitting on it sometimes silently sometimes talking sometimes
59:37
they're just like looking at you and so you can imagine that like the atmosphere
59:42
of like very quiet authentic.
59:47
Rural century old Alentejo and
59:51
so I was riding there and it was I was getting like really close to the to the
59:55
end of the course it was dark and in the dark I see like this really big building
1:00:02
and like what is that and I see flags and it's windy and I see the flags floating
1:00:07
in the air and it's just like and then it's,
1:00:11
There's like a lot of gravel leading to this. And then I moved from gravel to
1:00:16
cobblestones and it's a downhill and I get, and it's like a massive hotel and
1:00:23
it's just, that's the hotel.
1:00:24
It looks like a big, like hotel complex with several buildings.
1:00:28
And it's like right there in the middle of a plantation. And you're like, what is that?
1:00:34
And it's funny because it's not really the first time that this happens to me during a race.
1:00:39
But sometimes, especially at night, during a race, when you've been riding for
1:00:46
a few days or you sleep deprived, and you're kind of used to that grind of being on gravel,
1:00:54
in fields or forests, and just like in nature.
1:00:59
And whenever you see something that is man-made, it's usually very modest or
1:01:04
very agricultural, and it's an old building.
1:01:06
And then you're like yeah what is
1:01:09
that where am i it's like i've been
1:01:12
taken away from from the the place that i had been riding for like 40 hours
1:01:17
and brought to you something like completely different that like really really
1:01:21
doesn't belong here and it's just like and you and of course i didn't go into
1:01:26
the hotel but i i uh i stopped there because i i stopped in front of the hotel because i needed.
1:01:32
To rent some stuff in my bags and look for some food in my frame bag that wasn't
1:01:37
really accessible from when I was writing.
1:01:40
And I could see inside the reception. It was all big and shiny with a marble, well-lit.
1:01:49
I was like, I don't get what this place is.
1:01:52
I don't really care. It's just weird that it's there.
1:01:55
I definitely don't belong here. I'm all smelly and sweaty and full of dust.
1:02:00
And I'm just stopping there to find exactly where my food is and then I'll be
1:02:06
on my way and I'm sorry I'm here.
1:02:11
But yeah, it's funny because it's kind of feeling where you're like,
1:02:17
okay, something's happening. I don't know why. It's a little surreal.
1:02:21
It's completely surreal. Completely surreal.
1:02:24
And it reminds me of one time. I wonder what the hotel is. I'll look it up.
1:02:28
I definitely want to look it up. And it reminds me of being in Kyrgyzstan in
1:02:34
the middle of the night, also very sleep-deprived.
1:02:37
And it was dark. Was it dark? No, it was not dark. It was day.
1:02:44
And I was writing. And I think I saw a hotel, a big hotel somewhere.
1:02:49
And I know it's going to sound crazy because it is crazy. But you need to understand
1:02:52
that it was kind of like a hotel on an island in the middle of a river. Wow.
1:03:00
And I thought that I saw that. In the middle of the river.
1:03:03
Yeah, yeah, yeah. now that i mean now that i
1:03:06
say it i realize that it's impossible but
1:03:10
that's what i saw i was like it was like riding in
1:03:13
that valley and uh and and i was and i was looking down at that at that big
1:03:18
river and i was like oh it's funny it seems like there's there's a building
1:03:21
there in the middle of the river and then i was like okay that's weird but i
1:03:27
need to i need to like look it up someday Of course, I didn't look it up.
1:03:34
But the next year, I was in that same valley and it was dark.
1:03:39
Still racing Silk Road for the second time.
1:03:44
And I was in desperate need of some shelter because I was extremely tired and
1:03:50
it was raining and I was cold and I was wet.
1:03:53
And I was like, oh yeah, but I remember that there's a hotel here somewhere
1:03:58
in the middle of the river. and I kept looking for it and it wasn't there because
1:04:03
probably it's never been there and it's funny, it's just like both times.
1:04:08
When I saw that hotel and when I was looking for it, most times I was just completely out of it.
1:04:14
I was just way too tired and way too sleep deprived.
1:04:18
I was sleep deprived when I imagined it, and I was sleep deprived when I was looking for it.
1:04:23
And I think it's funny that a year apart, my mind was just not functioning properly
1:04:30
in the exact same part of the world.
1:04:34
Yeah, and it dug into a memory. Yeah.
1:04:37
Of ultra brain yeah yeah crazy
1:04:43
what the mind does especially sleep deprived so
1:04:46
and so i think it fits well into into the the your question because your question
1:04:51
is like it can't be real and it was not real oh yeah it can't it can't be that's
1:05:00
so funny well sofia thank you so much for giving your time to Zone to Speak.
1:05:06
So glad, you know, to have you.
1:05:08
And I want to wish you an amazing season. Have a wonderful time at Transbalkan
1:05:13
and maybe we can chat again at the end of the season.
1:05:16
Thanks, thanks. Thanks a lot for... And maybe I'll see you at Via Games.
1:05:20
Maybe, yeah. Hopefully I'll be available for that, yeah. Yeah, likewise. Cool. Bye.
1:05:28
And that's all for today's episode. I want to thank the listeners for tuning
1:05:32
in your support means everything.
1:05:35
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1:05:40
Music.