Latest / It's Time for Success: The Business Insights Podcast / 9 Steps in Systemizing your Business with Jarrod Stanton
Transcript
- Sharon DeKoning: [00:00:17] Welcome back to the It's Time for Success: The Business Insights Podcast. I'm your host Sharon DeKoning, and I'm thrilled to continue our series on Nine Steps in Systemizing Your Business with Jarrod Stanton. Jarrod Stanton is a very insightful and a seasoned business coach with Action Edge Business Coaching. In our previous episode with Jarrod, we laid the foundation by discussing the three critical steps. Vision statement, which basically defines your business, where it's headed and what success looks like to you. The mission statement, which outlines how your business plans to achieve the vision. And the culture statement we talked about, which is about core values and behaviors that shape your company's environment. In a nutshell of course, that was a way longer episode, but if you want to learn more about it, go back and listen to that one. We also have learned that these elements are essential for guiding a company's growth and attracting the right team members and customers. If you missed that episode, I highly recommend giving it a listen to understand how these foundational elements set the stage for a systemized business. Today, we're diving into three more of these nine steps. It's going to be the SMART goals, we're going to talk about the org chart and the key performance indicators. Jarrod, welcome back. I'm excited to delve deeper into these topics with you today. Jarrod Stanton: [00:01:35] Thanks a lot Sharon, great to be back on. Sharon DeKoning: [00:01:38] Thank you. I think the next step we're going to talk about is probably the SMART goals. We'll tackle that one first. Do you call it SMART goals, the specific, measurable, achievable, relevant and time bound? What does Action Edge refer to it as? Jarrod Stanton: [00:01:53] That's one way in the context of the Nine Steps to Systematize. We just call step number four some semblance of what we call common goals. The SMART goal format is definitely an option that a lot of organizations we coach, and organizations we're aware of, are still going with. The increasingly popular goal setting methodology is that of the OKRs, the objectives and key results. But the primary thing that we're talking about in number four is the team or the organization having a sense of common objectives, common directives, all basically going towards the same thing. Or as you can imagine, it's hard to expect organization or a systematized business. Sharon DeKoning: [00:02:48] What happens when a business sets vague or unclear goals? What have you seen in your experience? Jarrod Stanton: [00:02:54] Frustration and usually a sense of, we're doing lots of laps on the track, but not necessarily getting anywhere. Sharon DeKoning: [00:03:03] Exhaustion? Jarrod Stanton: [00:03:04] Yeah, vague or unclear goals can sometimes result in minimal progress. Or if there is some progress, progress with lack of organization, lack of systemization. Sharon DeKoning: [00:03:17] That probably all ricochets right down to staffing issues. Would it go if you don't have those? Do you feel that happens or have you seen that happen? Jarrod Stanton: [00:03:27] I think it's an absolute conclusion that will happen. Most organizations are going into this with the understanding that most people want to do well. I'd say everyone wants to do a good job, wants to achieve, wants to contribute, wants to excel, perform. Difficult to do when they're not quite sure where the goalposts are, not quite sure how what they're doing is contributing to what the company is chasing. It absolutely ricochets down. Sharon DeKoning: [00:03:58] How do you help people if they have loose goals? I was one of those. I was one that just went to work every day and did the best I could. But is there a way of helping other business owners, that you've seen, to come up with ideas. Jarrod Stanton: [00:04:15] The concept of SMART goal, the acronym was devised for just that purpose. The specific, measurable, achievable results time frame. I think the OKR concept that a lot of companies are going with now offers a nice change to the traditional SMART goals in the sense of inciting the objective, it allows and even encourages the team to be aspirational. Shoot for the stars, also inspirational, phrase it in a way that is more in line with something that motivates us, and not so much in following the rules. But then it's backed up by those KRs. You can say, that's a very succinct and aspirational inspirational objective, but how are we going to know we got there? The idea is you back it up with some KRs. Sometimes those are metric based KRs in terms of more of the traditional measurable, what metrics do we need to improve or what performance numbers do we need to see? Sharon DeKoning: [00:05:23] Does it start with management at the top? Do you feel that other companies start right at the top, or jump all on board for everybody right off the get-go for the OKRs? What do you think works? How have companies succeeded with these OKRs? Jarrod Stanton: [00:05:41] I'd say OKRs are any kind of goal setting. Most common is the company wide directives or the company wide objectives. Some organizations are, at the top level, declaring those out, publishing those out. Some organizations are declaring two major company-wide OKRs, and then if they get their team together in a planning session of sorts, the team can have some say in coming up and publishing what the third one would be. But then I think the idea is, no matter what goal setting method you're using, the OKRs work well for this. The idea is that those company wide goals would then cascade down, or at least connect down into the department level goals. Then those department level goals would cascade down to the individuals. Sharon DeKoning: [00:06:38] To our listeners, OKRs means objective key results. Common mistakes. In your experience, when businesses are setting goals, have you seen any common mistakes that any of our listeners can avoid? Are there any tips for this? How do you do this effectively? Jarrod Stanton: [00:06:57] Common mistakes with setting goals is that sometimes people will shy away from setting goals because they can't see exactly crystal clear how it's going to be achieved. But sometimes they need to be reminded that if exactly how to do it, it's not so much a goal, it's a to do list. The very idea or theory of setting goals or objectives is, we're not quite sure how to do it. The organization or the individual has to grow into the person that's able to achieve that goal. Sharon DeKoning: [00:07:39] One of my mistakes in this area is, better than I do, I have all these ideas and sometimes too much is too much. Less is better to focus on at a time. Thoughts on that? Jarrod Stanton: [00:07:53] It's a common thing. I don't know if I'd call it a mistake or just part of the learning process, part of maturing. But it's not uncommon for an organization going through 90 day planning for the first time to go a little bit too wide in their goals. It's trying to dabble in several things. It usually doesn't result in too much actual progress, just another lap on the track. Sharon DeKoning: [00:08:20] And then I feel bad because I didn't do it. It's easier to concentrate on less than it is more, for myself anyways. Are there any examples of an OKR? Our listeners, if this is a foreign language to them, what's an example? Jarrod Stanton: [00:08:35] Let's take a bigger business that might relate more with the general public. Let's say the Edmonton Oilers as an organization came out with an objective, a company wide organizational objective. To me, the most beloved and successful franchise amongst all NHL teams. Who knows if that's inspirational or aspirational to the team and the people, but let's assume it is. The objective on its own, leaves a lot wanting if we compare it to the SMART goal definition. But that's okay, because that objective would then be backed up by 2 to 5 key results. Key result number one might be, push attendance from this many thousand per game to this many thousand per game. Key result number two might be, community outreach contributions from this many million dollars to this many million dollars. Key result number three might be, go from this many points to this many points in the standings. Just to take that as an example, now you see if that was a company wide objective and those were some key results, you now start to see how those key results can cascade down into the departments. The key result is, increase from a 96 point season to 110 point season, which department is directly responsible for that? Probably hockey ops. That KR might then cascade down into, if you're a president of hockey operations, that might then make its way onto your main department objectives. Get from this many points to this many points, and then you'd have your own set of KRs under that. What about our player development? What about our recruiting of players? What about the coaching staff we're going to have? Then the hockey ops and the coaching staff share those goals or objectives with the players, and then they work with the players to set their own individual goals on literally ground level. Now what about the attendance at the games? Now that cascades down to the marketing team of the Edmonton Oilers. It also indirectly touches the hockey ops because they have to hope for people to come, but you see how that KR can cascade down to the sales and organization. Sharon DeKoning: [00:11:15] That really spoke to my question about where it starts at the top and how it goes all the way down. That really outlines that for me, thank you. How often do they revisit OKRs? Is that per company or what is your take on that? Jarrod Stanton: [00:11:29] I think the most common thing is yearly goals or yearly KRs done on a yearly basis on a yearly retreat, and then 90 day plans update the department and personnel. The idea with number four is the most organized companies we're seeing, everyone in the company is working off a 90 day plan every 90 days. Even companies where a lot of the frontline positions, there's not barely any to no time to work on business stuff. It's mainly a reactive job where you're dealing with what's coming at you. Even in those roles, we have people working off 90 day plans every 90 days. Whether it's one simple personal goal for the quarter that they worked on with their manager and then two to help the department's goals. How the reticular activating system works, Sharon, the razz. It's not smart but it is obedient. People want to do well, people want to perform and we got to help them calibrate their razz or punch their own coordinates because it will deliver precision. Sharon DeKoning: [00:12:43] Action Edge offers the 90 day planning, also. Is that something that companies can work with you, or are they totally separate for the OKRs? They can do this on their own as well. Jarrod Stanton: [00:12:54] Exactly right to everything you said. Lots of organizations like to join in our group 90 Day Planning just to have that camaraderie of getting elbow to elbow with other business owners. Sometimes it's a breath of fresh air to get outside your industry. But quite frankly, some people find it nice that they don't have to take it. It's already been blocked and protected for me, I just need to register and show up. Sharon DeKoning: [00:13:24] We drove four plus hours to get there. I liked it too because I learned from other people beside me, but also different views on stuff. My way wasn't always the right way, and I got to listen to different ideas that I wouldn't have thought from other people in the room and from the coaches. So I really liked that about that. Anything else in the goals area that you would like to tell our listeners today? Jarrod Stanton: [00:13:52] Just to start. Don't get hung up on goals. 20 other podcasts would say 20 different things, not to mention the hundreds of thousands of books on goal setting, not to mention you get tied up in knots trying to figure out the exact perfect way to do it and not do it. But what I'd say is, take proactive accountability for what you, your organization, your team are focused on. Because the razz is pretty binary, it's usually black or white. Usually, we're focused on the path or we're focused on the ditch. We want the organization, the team focused on the path forward. Whatever that means for you and goals, just put some effort into it. Sharon DeKoning: [00:14:41] Mind over matter, perfect. We're going to talk about the organizational chart. In your experience, whether the business is small, doesn't matter what size it is, how important is the org chart? Is it more important for the larger than the smaller? Tell me your take on the whole organizational chart. Jarrod Stanton: [00:15:00] It's hard to say that a smaller would ever get to be a larger without an organizational chart. It's very much not a situation of, we're too small, therefore we don't need an organizational chart. I think it's critical in terms of, again, razz. If you've got these goals about, we want to help this many people, we want to have this much impact, we want to make this much money, we want to be able to give this many people jobs. A lot of that is you have to map out what kind of organization would allow you to have that much impact, create this many jobs, help this many customers. You have to be able to map that out not only operationally, what makes sense, what jobs do we need doing and how many people do we need doing this job versus this job, but also trace that back to what fair market value pays for all those people. Run it through a scenario which would then spit out the break even revenue. Sharon DeKoning: [00:16:04] What is an org chart? We should probably explain that to people that do not know. Jarrod Stanton: [00:16:15] You see different versions of them online. The most common one is probably the flow chart style. I prefer the ones that have a box at the top for shareholders and then a very dark line because the dark line is symbolic. There are the shareholders that are above that line, meaning they're outside the company. But then there's below that line, meaning the organizational structure of the people in your company. Typically it would go down to a CEO, or a general manager in some cases in a smaller company, and then it would branch off from who reports to the CEO or general manager, who would branch into apartments, sometimes sales and marketing, human resources, operations. Then from there you branch out further. So in operations, how many technicians do you need? Sharon DeKoning: [00:17:10] That's a good way. So what happens if you don't have a position, you put it in anyways and be hopeful? Jarrod Stanton: [00:17:16] The idea that we're trying to get across and why it's so crucial not to be in denial about this is because it's not right or wrong, it's just perspective. But the perspective we try to get people to look at is, even if you're a business of one person, you do have those roles, you just do them. Because if you're 'Sharon Corp', and Sharon's the only person, you still technically have a sales manager, it's just Sharon. Sharon DeKoning: [00:17:47] So you can still draw out the chart, put little initials beside those roles. Jarrod Stanton: [00:17:53] It's not to overwhelm, it's just to stay out of denial. Then even if 'Sharon' wants to get in good habits as a business of one, and Sharon's looking at her 90 day goals, sometimes you have to look at those goals through how you wear it on the org chart. This goal here is directly related to how good a job Sharon does at sales, so what would be my expectations of a sales representative if I hired one? Because sometimes when we're the ones wearing all the hats, we let ourselves off the hook because we're not paying out all those salaries. Sharon DeKoning: [00:18:32] The org charts, do they have to often be revisited? Do they change? Jarrod Stanton: [00:18:38] Absolutely change. They change with the companies stumbling across new technology, a company coming across new ways to leverage, a company pivoting their strategy. We've seen it lots in the last five years. Pivoting sometimes for opportunity, sometimes for just sheer survival necessity. Oftentimes a company will think that this was their bread and butter, and then they come to some blinding flashes of the obvious and say, I think we've actually got a stronger market opportunity here. And they do away with an entire division of their company and focus on these deliverables, which could drastically alter the way they need to organize their people. Sharon DeKoning: [00:19:21] The businesses that you work with, is there something scheduled to review it, or is it just there and then they change it when they need to? Jarrod Stanton: [00:19:32] I think at a minimum we try to get people to review it at least every 90 days. Not that it's always altered every 90 days, but try to review it every 90 days in terms of, how are we tracking? Sharon DeKoning: [00:19:47] Would you ever redo it based on your determination for growth? Is that something that you would redo then? If I want to double my business this year and I've got something in my radar to do that, is that something that you would do then? Jarrod Stanton: [00:20:01] Absolutely, and I'd advise it be done and considered well before the growth. It should be something that contributes to the decision to grow or not to grow, especially when the growth might include expansion of territory or duplication of locations. Because when you get into that level of growth, whether it's organic growth, where the mothership will continue to manage everything, or it's a franchise or license model, the org chart will change drastically. Because now you're looking for sources of leverage where what departments will be the mothership, in a sense, for all the locations. You might have a plan to open locations in three new cities, but you may want to keep the sales and marketing, or maybe the marketing function, centralized. The marketing department and any personnel, there's only one under the main entity. Versus, then your org chart might go into city X but then those locations might have their own structure of shop manager and technicians underneath. Sharon DeKoning: [00:21:15] Say we're talking to our listeners and they're starting up and they have three employees. Which you've probably encountered in your industry already. What would you say to those people who are going to start that? How do they start it? They've never done this before. Just literally start and draw a picture? Is that what they do or what is their take on that? Jarrod Stanton: [00:21:34] That's what I usually do. I like to understand before I try to be understood. I think it's very dangerous to do otherwise. When I'm trying to learn about a company and how they operate, and also help the person get to the best operational structure, I try to learn as much as I can about what they're currently doing and why they're doing it. I usually hand a person the pen and say, go to the whiteboard and draw me your org chart and explain to me how you allocate roles and responsibilities and so forth. What usually happens is, for a lot of people, that's the first time anyone's ever asked them to explain that. Sometimes it's a business that's six months into existence and has grown fast to three people, sometimes it's someone who's had a company for 25 years. No one's ever asked them to explain that. Sharon DeKoning: [00:22:32] You start a business because you're good at something, and that's what you're doing, but there's more to business than being good at something and sometimes we need this kind of stuff. There's a book by Brad Sugars, I believe, which one is it? Jarrod Stanton: [00:22:47] There's 'Instant Systems', it's a good book. Sharon DeKoning: [00:22:52] That's it. Yes, let's highly recommend that one. Anything else on organizational charts that you would like to share with our listeners before we jump over to key performance indicators? Jarrod Stanton: [00:23:01] I would just say if you're not aware of what I speak, good for you, that's a blessing. And I hope you continue to not be aware of it. But if the listeners could switch places and be me for a month here, lately, a lot of the businesses we encounter that reach out to us for help, and more and more these days, it's employees reaching out. Versus 10, 15 years ago, it was only ever the owner that would reach out. There seems to be a narrative popular these days of, some companies are taking it on as a badge of honor to turn their nose up or shun the traditional organizational chart. You'll see a lot of companies bragging about a flat organizational chart. Although I understand the spirit of that, it's a snub towards the hierarchy. Or, I'm your boss and you're her boss and et cetera. It's usually having a bunch of companies and people flocking to us for frustration, not knowing where the goalposts are and not knowing who to report to. It's why I suggested these podcast topics for us, as I know you're so passionate about helping businesses succeed. It's a counterargument going these days, that anything to do with organization or systemization is hurting a company and stifling innovation and creativity. But we're fighting and trying to stand our ground, if that is precisely wrong. And it's only with organization that the true creativity and innovation from your people can truly emerge. Sharon DeKoning: [00:24:51] Key performance indicators, KPIs. These are important, and they're also really tricky. I find them tricky. How do you encourage businesses like myself and other businesses, or Action Coach, how do you encourage businesses to stay on track? What else do you have going for us for KPIs? Jarrod Stanton: [00:25:21] As this relates to the nine steps, and the organization of a company, usually why we have it listed right after the organizational chart is that it's very difficult to do. I'm not going to pretend it's easy, especially if you're a business trying to sketch out an organizational chart for the first time when you've had Bob, Mary, Jessica, Bruce, and Daniel on your team for the last ten years. It's hard not to view it as, what does Bruce do? What does Daniel do? But one of the disciplines we try to know, don't consider faces, don't consider people, don't build a role on your organizational chart. Sharon DeKoning: [00:26:25] Why is that? Jarrod Stanton: [00:26:25] That's a nice gesture to Sharon, but have your vision. That's why all these are in order. What goals do we want to accomplish? What's the organizational structure? If I said, there's this promo products company for sale in Halifax, Nova Scotia. They got all these customers, they got all this. We can buy it, but it comes without the team. Imagine you and I said, we thought it was a good idea to buy, we don't know anyone in our circle who would move out there and help us start it, we've got to hire all brand new people from the Halifax area. We aren't going to make an org chart and say, we definitely want Amber doing this and we definitely want Carla. We don't know. We have to build it based upon, what's the organizational structure that gives us the best chance? Knowing what you know about the operation of these businesses, because we don't have faces in our head. We don't know the idiosyncrasies of people we've known for ten years. We just know, what are the roles we need? Now we have to hire to find the right people for those roles. And that's where KPIs come into the equation. Because shortly after you do the organizational chart, you have to look at those roles and you have to say, we have to believe in small business that these roles, they don't just do things, they have to handle things. It's like the conversation you and I had about the lesson you learned from your father about giving you a square in the garden at five years old and saying, Sharon, you are in charge of this square. Five years old. It's not, Sharon, you can help out with the watering in this square. Or, Sharon, you can help out digging weeds in this square. Or, Sharon, you can assist with-no, no, no. You're in charge of this square. It's just to look at the roles on the organizational chart and say, where are we going to distribute the responsibilities of performance? Because if we don't identify and distribute, all the KPIs are the responsibility of the owner. Sharon DeKoning: [00:29:25] Right, that's a great analogy. Jarrod Stanton: [00:29:32] Eventually they are anyway, but we want to empower people. It's not always crystal clear, but sometimes it's very clear. The primary responsibility holder, the people we're looking at, where the buck stops with that KPI is absolutely that role on the org chart. Sometimes we see your role as indirectly contributing to this KPI. So we'll be considering it when we do a performance review and so forth. Sharon DeKoning: [00:30:03] And that's, again, reviewed at 90 days? Jarrod Stanton: [00:30:07] At least. Sometimes in some businesses, certain KPIs are being tracked daily or weekly. For example, if you and I owned a deli in downtown Edmonton, a high end meat market or something, and we had six people who were counter attendants, we'd absolutely be watching the average dollar sale per each. Would be watching the daily sale, would be watching the KPIs that would be absolutely on that role on our org chart, those people. But that's something you don't wait 90 days to watch. Sharon DeKoning: [00:30:53] Correct, KPIs are monitored. Depending on the KPIs is what you're saying. Jarrod Stanton: [00:30:58] And it depends on the type of business. It's the sheer volume of transactions that can happen in retail hospitality, some kind of those businesses, that demands daily monitoring of a lot of KPIs. Sharon DeKoning: [00:31:16] Have you ever seen anything horrible or positive happen by monitoring these KPIs and staying on top of them? Are there any stories you can share with us? Jarrod Stanton: [00:31:31] One of the positives, I guess it sometimes is a little bit of a punch in the gut, but some of the positives for owners who have done well in business but plateaued, and they're starting to have the courage and the growth mentality to start to adopt some of these principles. There's usually some surprise when it happens very often where the owners have this huge track record in the industry. They're incredibly knowledgeable. Then they'll have a junior rookie employee, and say something like average dollar sale, will measure average dollar sale per employee for a six week time period. The junior rookie employee is coming back with a higher average dollar sale than the owner. But then sometimes when you get down to the bottom of it, it's just because the junior employee's following the script, following the system, doing what they're told, and the owner is doing what they want. Pulling the owner's prerogative, as we call it. So sometimes that's a rude awakening. Sharon DeKoning: [00:32:45] I think as an owner, everybody that's listening that owns, they know what you're talking about. I think we've all done it. I always say, do as I say, not as I do. But that's a terrible boss move. Jarrod Stanton: [00:32:57] Sides of this is just totally ignoring KPIs, not publishing. Steps seven, eight, nine, we'll get more into position descriptions and development scales. Where the owners got the KPIs in their head, and they may review the KPIs in secret or privately with their coach or their accountant, but the poor person in that role is never told. Sharon DeKoning: [00:33:21] For the next session that we're going to have, list those next three that we're on. I was going to write that down and I didn't, so can you tell us the next three key steps? Jarrod Stanton: [00:33:30] Just to round out the nine, number seven would be position descriptions and development scales. Position description or job description, I think most businesses are fairly aware of that concept. We have a slightly different take on it. Where we're making sure we use language to empower that person and absolutely letting them know what the evidence of success is in their role. We're absolutely giving them the answers to the test. Not just a list of what you do here. Answers to the test in how to be great here. And at the development scale, which gives them control of their own destiny in terms of not wondering, 'I wonder how good of an employee Sharon thinks I am'. Every performance review, they can check in with their development scale in terms of how far along they are. Sharon DeKoning: [00:34:30] My team has learned a lot from you on that. Carla, she's in charge of our training and onboarding. She always uses the words, how best we can set you up for success. That's what she always says. Jarrod Stanton: [00:34:43] Then eight of nine would be, I think the first thing everyone thinks about when they want to organize a company, or if they've read the e-myth, systems systems systems. So eight of nine would be your standard operating procedures, your systems, your checklists, your how-to manuals. It's not just about documenting them and writing them down. It's about, how do we make sure the entire team knows that the 'S' stands for 'standard' not 'suggested'? Sharon DeKoning: [00:35:12] I remember, you always told us if I had to think about it twice, make a system. If I stumble over it twice, make a system. Jarrod Stanton: [00:35:24] Or explain it twice. And you know with a lot of owners it's not a detriment, it's actually something to be proud of in a way. Sometimes you see self-sabotage of these systems being created because the logical brain and the quest for leverage and the quest for a more organizational company compels you to want to publish these systems. But you know as well as anyone there's sometimes a deep sense of pride and a feeling of importance, that you are the one that has the answers. I've explained this to dozens, if not hundreds of young people over the years. The idea is, if you've had to explain it manually more than once, let's get a training video out for it or something. Sharon DeKoning: [00:36:19] And then nine. Jarrod Stanton: [00:36:23] Nine is the step that is the thing that keeps us all on track. Now that we've got the framework for systemization organization, how do we keep it up? How do we hold the team accountable to it? So nine would be the organizational disciplines and the management rhythms. The key word there is 'organizational' discipline not 'Sharon' discipline. In number nine we talk about, if this is going to be a company ritual, like a morning huddle for the service team, is that a ritual that happens because 'Amber' happens to be at work today or is that a ritual that happens no matter if Amber is in Costa Rica or not. Keep the cadence, keep the check-ins with, how are we making sure we're following our vision, mission, culture and living it? How are we living that to our customers? How are we living that to ourselves? How are we checking in on our goals and setting new goals? When are we reporting on KPIs? When are we evaluating our position? This is the cadence of keeping everything together. Sharon DeKoning: [00:37:35] Absolutely amazing. I'm going to sign off, anything you want to add before I sign off here? Jarrod Stanton: [00:37:42] Just that I know it sounds like a big list and lots within every list, but it's like a lot of lists. Start at the beginning and get your team involved in helping you build it out. Sharon DeKoning: [00:37:56] And use that razz. Once you focus on it, it will happen. Thank you, again, for sharing your insight with us today. As always, I appreciate you. These three areas, the goals, the org charts and the KPIs are often overlooked by entrepreneurs, myself included. We are so focused on getting the work done. We come to work as entrepreneurs, that's what we started working for. We learned that these other things are involved there too, so thank you for explaining that to us. They are hugely important and that's how you're going to grow your business, and thank you for that. Anyone listening, if you're feeling overwhelmed or unsure where to start, just remember you don't have to systemize overnight. That's what I keep telling myself. It doesn't have to be overnight. Start small, as Jarrod had mentioned, start somewhere, stay consistent and lean into your resources. Like this podcast, those books that we had mentioned and Jarrod's always a call away or an email away as well. You can find him in Action Business Coaching, we'll put a link there. Thanks, Jarrod, I really appreciate you. Thank you so much. And thank you, everyone, for tuning in to It's Time for Success: The Business Insights Podcast. If you found value in this episode, please share it with a fellow entrepreneur and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss the next step in building your business success story. Until next time, keep learning, keep building, and keep going.