Latest / The Living Waters Podcast / Ep. 218 - How to Become a Lifelong Lover and Defender of the Truth

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Ep. 218 - How to Become a Lifelong Lover and Defender of the Truth · The Living Waters Podcast

• 1:05
  Speaker 1: So Vodi, the subtitle for your book is Can Faith Thrive in a Post-Christian Culture?
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: So for our listeners, explain what you mean by post-Christian culture.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, that's a phrase I borrowed from Francis Schaefer, and it's interesting for him to have been talking about post-Christian culture.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: Turn this time.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, turn this time.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: And what I mean by that is not that Christianity is gone, right, that all vestiges of Christianity have faded away, because that's not true.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: But the way that I illustrate it for people is it's like American culture is a petulant teenager who's decided I know better, right, I'm going to go out and I'm going to do this.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: He's not acknowledging the fact that every tool he has in his toolbox came from his family that raised him, but he thinks I'm going to go and I'm going to do it on my own.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: That's America as it relates to Christianity.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Have you guys ever heard someone say wait, should we start that again?
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Scotty, no, I never said that, but that was fantastic.
• 2:16
  Speaker 5: We're both so high, here we go.
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: I thought he reinterred Peabirdy for the second thing.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: I didn't know if he had hit record or not, but I guess he did, so I'll just do it again, even though there's no going you don't need to.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Have you ever heard someone say now do it for all the marbles?
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: Oh, you ever heard of that?
• 2:37
  Speaker 5: No, but I used to play marbles.
• 2:38
  Speaker 5: I loved it.
• 2:38
  Speaker 5: So did I.
• 2:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah, great game.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Enlighten me because, well, first of all, the saying Ray, did you?
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: That sounds like a saying you guys would have said no, no, I see.
• 2:47
  Speaker 5: if you lost your marbles, that means you're going crazy, Okay that's true.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: That's one too.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but for all the marbles.
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: I want to.
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: Are you looking for the etymology of that phrase?
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: Because I can make something up if you want, Please, Like usual.
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: You see, back in the day they used to trade by marbles.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: That was the currency of.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, in these childish days that wouldn't surprise me.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: But, ray Marbles, those were a big part of, like your era.
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: I mean Oscar used to play, and he's this little boy.
• 3:20
  Speaker 6: The ancient era.
• 3:20
  Speaker 6: Do you know what?
• 3:20
  Speaker 5: a stinker is A stinker.
• 3:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah, there were these little marbles that were just useless.
• 3:24
  Speaker 5: That's what you'd say no stinkers when you won.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, is that where we get you little?
• 3:28
  Speaker 5: stinker.
• 3:28
  Speaker 5: Yes, sir, what are you looking at me when you said that?
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Minute stinker.
• 3:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, marbles, a great game.
• 3:37
  Speaker 5: Pretty much like soccer, without the crowd and the nets and the bull.
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: Without all the adrenaline and the fun.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but what's?
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but I don't.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: Marbles, did you play marbles?
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: Don't go off me, I'm going to tell you as to what you were just saying, but wait first, I want you to get it from.
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: Marbles.
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: You have to understand, for Ray, there was one of two things to do growing up.
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: There was marbles and then that thing with the wheel, with the stick.
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: That was like the only thing to do.
• 3:59
  Speaker 5: We never did that that was cavemen.
• 4:01
  Speaker 5: No, but the thing about marbles is, when you won, you collected the other person's marble, so it was like you had a oh theft, yeah.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: No gambling, no gambling.
• 4:09
  Speaker 5: It was instant winning.
• 4:10
  Speaker 5: It was a great feeling to be a winner.
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: Ray was a part of the Marble mafia.
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: Hey man, you want marbles?
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I've been intrigued with marbles all my life.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: You haven't had all your life.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: I watched a video how they make them too.
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: It's kind of a weird word to say over and over Marble, marble, marble.
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: Every word is weird if you keep saying it again and again at the end yeah, sheiks, no that you keep them up.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: But have you guys ever wondered how this all starts?
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: These sayings, you mean marbles?
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Well, someone says it.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: There's someone who had to have been the first person that said for all the marbles.
• 4:47
  Speaker 5: Oh, the first person, instead of building the hands with two in the bush.
• 4:49
  Speaker 5: Yeah, there was a first person.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's unlikely that.
• 4:53
  Speaker 5: Probably Adam.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: They all when you name the animals they came over these things.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you just say it through the hands with two in the bush, but people just start saying them without thinking about what they signify.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: I remember seeing a video years ago where they would interview people on the streets and they would say something totally nonsensical and people would be like yeah, yeah.
• 5:12
  Speaker 5: Things are more now than they've ever been.
• 5:13
  Speaker 5: Things are more like they are now than they ever were before.
• 5:16
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, that's true.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: Good point, yeah, but things like that, that just pop up and people start making stuff up and going with it.
• 5:25
  Speaker 5: Yeah, the guy that said down in the mouth was a dentist.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Mr Down in the mouth dentist.
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: I read this book on writing one time and it pointed out like try writing something without using previously spoken idioms, because what you realize is that we depend so much on previously spoken idioms.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: And colloquialisms too.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, that's colloquialism.
• 5:49
  Speaker 5: Yeah, well, when we came across the US, we were just stuck to express ourselves with certain things because we used colloquialism and we knew what it meant, but you guys didn't ever clue what it meant.
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: You're like oh yeah right shaving the sheep.
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: Shaving the sheep.
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: What do you have to tell them?
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Shaving the sheep.
• 6:05
  Speaker 5: Sharing the sheep.
• 6:05
  Speaker 5: Shaving the sheep.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: Oh man, you don't want to hear the Lebanese things I grew up with.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: What do you got there?
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: What's in the box.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: We got a box in the mail all the way from British Columbia.
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: Pause, is it?
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: ticking.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: Not this one.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Like any white powder, From Hashtag Gomez.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: She's got an Instagram page called Biblical and Reform, but she ended up sending us a box filled with merch.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Let's go.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Oh, is that glitter?
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: I see too.
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: Merch, merch, merch, merch for everybody.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: Oh, let's see what is this.
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: Oh, they're so glittery.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: What is that?
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Oh glitter, oh, just little bags, little fancy bags.
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: To live as Christ and to die is gain.
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: That's true.
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: What is this?
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: Right, oh wait, patches.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: It's not a bag, it's a sweatshirt, that's sweatshirt and these are sweatshirts.
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: Is this her swag?
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: This is her swag.
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: Ooh, unashamed of the gospel.
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: This is what she does.
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: Look at this, so I need it we got stuff for everybody here Thank you.
• 7:04
  Speaker 5: Is that nice.
• 7:05
  Speaker 5: This is going to be tied on my biceps, but I'll manage.
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: Well, there's a couple different sizes in here, so grab the size that you want.
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Ray, I think I saw an extra small.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Let the crew Super small.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Oh, this is so cool, that's very nice.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: That is really sweet.
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: Hooded sweatshirts regular size sweatshirts.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: What's that from there?
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Is that a shirt or a hoodie or a Ooh Ooh?
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: I'd wear that To live as Christ.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: That's a crew neck Nice.
• 7:28
  Speaker 5: So these are black with white riding on them, and they're very attractive.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for those who can't see, I'm sure we're going to get emails.
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: I follow her on Instagram and boy, she's got some great posts.
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: Maybe we can add her link into the show notes.
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: Sure.
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: Surely Do one of us know how to do that I'm listening to this.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure Scotty can take care of it.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, and I'm sure we're going to get emails about this being Illuminati stuff.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Everything we do, everything is Illuminati.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: Oscar's hair is in the shape of an Illuma.
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: Did you notice the?
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: triangle.
• 8:01
  Speaker 6: I did.
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, when you get into the Illuminati, there's approved hairdos.
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and you got to pick one out of the 20.
• 8:08
  Speaker 5: The thing that you can pick some of them Illuminati is they strap two of their middle fingers on their left hand.
• 8:13
  Speaker 5: Yes, that's it.
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: That's a sign For those not, who cannot see.
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: I have two middle fingers strapped together because I have a ruptured tendon.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: And a broken foot and a broken foot.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: I'm sure some's wrong with your head too, oscar Well that's obvious Some broken there.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: That's where it all started, all right.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: And we also got a box full of goodies from our friend, jeremy, who we told you all about the 16-year-old whose father's in the military, and he sent us a picture of him, with the mug that's awesome.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: That's a evidence Bible and a hat.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: A hat, some cookies, a nice cool little egg thing with some cool little crocheted egg things.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: We text quite a bit oh, do you?
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and he's got a beard at 16.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: Look at this.
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: I'm 39 now.
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: Oscar still can't grow that I don't do 28 before I grow on the starch my brow came down for a drink.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: All right, friends, we have a comment.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: This is from niceandholyapp Holy app.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Hi, I'm 13 years old.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: My name is Are you?
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: rapping this.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: I have a qualification here too on it, because he said we may get his name wrong and that's okay J-I-S-A-H-A-C high shack, something like that.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: I love this podcast.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: My dad told me about it and it is encouraging to know that there are still real men to look up to in the world, and cool how y'all can make me laugh while teaching the Bible.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: I really admire what y'all do.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Keep it up and can't wait for you to keep posting.
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: Oh, thank you.
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: I thought it was kind of weird that he didn't mention Ray, I know, since it.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: Are you gargling, mark?
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: All right friends.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: This podcast is brought to you by the Starter Kit 350 Tracked, 101 Funniest One-Liners.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Good Person Comic Millie D'Arville, gospel Tracked and the Ten Commandment Coins.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: Starter kit.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Ray, whose idea was a starter kit, I started it.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Did you bake in the dye?
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm, I remember that was one of the first things I might have gotten from Living Waters Started kit, I think so no, we didn't have it back then.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: No, did we not Different starter kit?
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Well, it would have been something different.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: It was an idiot kit yeah.
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: That's why I gave it.
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: Oh no, I'm thinking of the track sample pack the track sample pack.
• 10:30
  Speaker 5: That's right, yeah, that's something else.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: We'll be mentioning that on another podcast, but the starter kit boy, these have gone really well.
• 10:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah, they're great.
• 10:39
  Speaker 5: It's a good way to start giving out tracks Use the starter kit.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: You know, ray, on that note, I was just thinking about it.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: Do you remember the first time you ever gave a track out?
• 10:51
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Seriously.
• 10:53
  Speaker 5: Really yeah, I was brand new Christians on a Saturday down in Brighton, the actual is it.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: It was the very first time.
• 10:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I bumped some shoppers on a sidewalk and handed out a track, or I remember it.
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: Was it chiseled and stung?
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: No, Were other people handing out tracks.
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: I can't remember.
• 11:10
  Speaker 5: It was like 200 years ago.
• 11:11
  Speaker 5: Who made the track?
• 11:12
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: I just remember I got it, yeah, I thought by all means, and I think some gave me tracks.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Was it biblical?
• 11:19
  Speaker 5: Yes, I'm sure it was Brighton.
• 11:21
  Speaker 5: Did you say Brighton?
• 11:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah, brighton, that was the name of the suburb.
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: Are we going there?
• 11:24
  Speaker 5: I think you are.
• 11:25
  Speaker 5: You're going to look at my old Leathergear store.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, friends, we are going on a journey oh really your old, what Ray.
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: Leathergear store.
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: I had a surf shop I was just thinking about this morning.
• 11:37
  Speaker 5: The greatest device I was ever given by anyone was Stay Small.
• 11:41
  Speaker 5: Do you remember that?
• 11:42
  Speaker 5: You've done that?
• 11:43
  Speaker 5: Very well, you followed that advice.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: You took it a little too literally.
• 11:47
  Speaker 5: No, our entire businessman came during a Saturday when there were a lot of people in the store.
• 11:51
  Speaker 5: It was really booming because he used to make leather jackets.
• 11:53
  Speaker 5: I could make leather jackets for people while they wait.
• 11:57
  Speaker 5: Wow, they had to wait three months.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Seriously, ray Would you do it while they waited.
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah, three months.
• 12:04
  Speaker 5: It was an hour and three quarters was the quickest I could do.
• 12:06
  Speaker 5: That was the fringe jackets.
• 12:07
  Speaker 5: Anyway, this businessman said to me he'd retired and he said Stay Small.
• 12:11
  Speaker 5: He said you'll have your freedom.
• 12:12
  Speaker 5: I took it to heart because I thought, boy, I can get women in factories making these and I make a lot of money and be paying this insurances and taxes and all that and all sorts of hassles and unions, and that I thought I'm going to stay small.
• 12:23
  Speaker 5: I stayed small To this day.
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I want one of these jackets.
• 12:28
  Speaker 5: Don't you Star yeah, Ray, you should really make it, I just want mine Ray will be making jackets all the time For my 40th birthday.
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: All I want is a leather jacket hand made by Ray Comfort.
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: I'll buy you one.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: Hand made by Ray Comfort.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Was it me that got you doing them again?
• 12:42
  Speaker 5: Yes, I did.
• 12:43
  Speaker 5: I did two or three.
• 12:45
  Speaker 5: I think yeah, because you goad me, that's right.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: I said no, I don't believe it.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: No, you don't, that's all you do.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: You can't climb the escalator.
• 12:52
  Speaker 5: What's the largest jacket you made?
• 12:53
  Speaker 5: Was there 40, 40, 40, no, 50, 53 inch chest?
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Wow, wait, is that the one with the big man and the little?
• 13:01
  Speaker 5: oh, jacob, because Jacob yeah he was a weight lifter for the equivalent of the Olympics called the Commonwealth Games.
• 13:07
  Speaker 5: He was the gold medalist.
• 13:08
  Speaker 5: Wow, he came to see me and he said like a jacket, nothing I had to kill about a 10 cow, and he was a 53 inch chest.
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: It took me like 20 minutes to measure his chest, had to run around the back.
• 13:18
  Speaker 5: But then he lost weight and brought the jacket back.
• 13:21
  Speaker 5: What Really?
• 13:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah, he retired.
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: He was a Christian.
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: He just stopped weight and lifted him weights and he was down.
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: He brought the jacket back and said Can you alter it?
• 13:29
  Speaker 5: And I said no.
• 13:29
  Speaker 5: Did you use it as a blanket at night, Ray?
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah, we used it as a tent for circles.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: All right, friends, enough of this silliness, because we got a serious brother coming on here Again.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: We told you we went to G three and we got to interview a whole bunch of solid men of God.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: This one is Vody Bacom.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: No doubt you've heard of him, friends, and he's going to talk about how to become a lifelong lover and defender of the truth Boy.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: What a solid brother.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: You're going to hear about his book too, as well in the interview.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: So, without any further ado, here is Vody Bacom.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: All right, so, as you can tell friends, we are here at G3 in the wonderful state of Georgia, in Atlanta, and we got with us our brother, vody Baccom.
• 14:21
  Speaker 6: Vody, father and grandfather how many got now three, now three all right, you're one ahead of me, bro, so far one ahead of me.
• 14:27
  Speaker 6: We're hoping for 50.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Kids, we ought to be able to get 50 grand.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah seems reasonable, let's go, guys a special club.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: You understand, not many understand it, but, man, once you're in there, oh yeah, the more the merrier, oh yeah, yeah, well, vody, we're excited to have you with us.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Brother, thank you for making it all the way here from Lusca, Lusca, lusca, lusca.
• 14:47
  Speaker 6: Wow.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so, man, you, we're just talking before we came on and you've been, you've been hitting the road running yeah, here yeah lots going on lots going on on this trip.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah and so, uh, you know we're gonna be talking a little bit about your new, your new re-release, is it yeah?
• 15:13
  Speaker 6: describe this because you wrote this a while ago.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: I wrote that was my first book, actually in 2004.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we did an update and revision.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: My publisher got a, got a hold of it and my new publisher and was familiar with it and just sort of looked at it again and they were like that you need to, you need to redo this.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah this needs to come back out now, just because so many of the things that I was dealing with you know 20 years ago.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they've grown up, they've morphed, but foundationally it's the same stuff.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, so the ever-loving truth, can faith thrive, and post-Christian culture.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: So was there a lot of revising you had to do, or not?
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: a lot, not a lot.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: There were some things that you know we had to update and add.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: One example the big worldview issue that I was dealing with in 2004 was secular humanism.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Right, it's atheistic, it's materialistic.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: But today, looking at it, the big worldview issue is neo Marxism.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: Right, still atheistic, still materialistic.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: Different philosophical twist now on that ideology.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: So there were things like that that we had to tweak and and help people to see.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: That makes it even.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: That makes it even more helpful, even more meaningful.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because, like I said, we're dealing with Different versions of the same stuff.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's atheistic.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: Materialism right, it's, there is no God.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Matter is all that matters.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Our ethics and our morals are completely relative because of that, and so let's go now.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: If somebody would have told me in 2004 that you know we'd be arguing over pronouns oh my goodness and oh you didn't see that come in and you know the definition of a man, right?
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: You know I'd have told me we're, they were crazy, right.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: You know, man, it's like though, it's like the frog in the proverbial, you know pot.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah it's, it's like you look, it's like how in the world did we get here?
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but yet it's been incremental and and I believe the church hasn't been fighting in the way that it should have before we got here.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but let me ask you this, vody, you know attack on the truth has been a reality, obviously since, since the fall.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: But attack on the very nature of truth itself is no doubt, you know it's, greater than it's ever been in human history.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: What would you attribute that?
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: To?
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: The attack on the nature of truth itself?
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd attribute that, I'd attribute that to the fall, because I mean, at its essence, if you're gonna go to war with truth, you either go to war with truth on its own terms, in which case you lose miserably, right, yeah, because I mean truth is that was corresponds to reality, and we can say well, note that you lose that right, or you make an assault on the very nature of truth itself, yeah, so that you sort of take away that ground.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: You still lose, but it's, I don't know, maybe not as bad as a frontal assault.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: The society which we now live.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: Right it's that they would rather be comforted with a lie.
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, then hurt by the truth.
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: And Now truth is more than ever become subjective, yeah, unless you're a Christian then, we want to banish you to the island of forgetfulness Right?
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: well, that brings up good point.
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: I want to ask you this because in 2004 I know you talk in the book about Religious pluralism right where it's like all religions are created.
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: Yes, but now, in 2023, it's not quite religious pluralism, because Christianity is not seen as equal, but rather as a danger in society.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah well, even then, even in 2004.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: I was making that point right, that culture.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: So three ideas pluralism, right, as you, as you've mentioned.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: The new tolerance, right, and the new tolerance is not.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: You know, I'll Respectfully disagree with you.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: The new tolerance is intolerance.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: I have to embrace what you believe that I have to celebrate it.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: That's exactly hold on as equal to my own.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to put that in there.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: I can't just, I can't just celebrate it and hey, that's good for you, I have to celebrate it as equal to my own.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: And then the last one, of course, is relativism, now, which is there is no absolute truth, right?
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: And so what?
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: The point that I was making in 2004, and I'm still making, is that when that's your foundation, christianity has to be eliminated, because Christianity puts the lie to your very foundation.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Right, christianity stands there and says, hey, though, those things can't be true, because what we believe is true.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, therefore, you know, there's a chapter in neutrality is not an option.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, they can't be neutral to us, they can.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: They can be neutral to, you know, eastern mysticism and Buddhism and Hindu, all of that stuff.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: Right, they can be neutral to that stuff, but to Christianity they can't be neutral.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: And then here's another interesting thing they can't be neutral to Islam either, mm-hmm, because Islam puts the lie to that as well, but they're afraid of Islam, yeah, yeah so they shut up.
• 20:22
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, right, yeah, it's interesting.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you never hear Islam ever mentioned when they're doing their big rants right.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: And you know, vody, back in the day, as Christians, let's say 20 years ago, we throw out crazy scenarios.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Like you know, one day, you know, someone will want to marry their, their dog, or one day someone will and some of the things we've seen creep up I mean, mark talks about this in some of his presentations people that want to marry buildings, people that are you know, we just did something on someone wanted to marry their alligator, you know.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: So it's like we're seeing what we used to throw out as scenarios and people think we're crazy as becoming reality.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Do you think that this, this sort of stuff, especially within the realm of trans, transgenderism, homosexuality, do you see this as as potentially the main tool of persecution against the church and days ahead?
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: No, because it's the main tool of persecution now.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it absolutely is.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: We are the enemy, we are the adversary.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: But there's a flip side to that.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: I also see it as a tipping point, because it's a bridge too far, even for pagans.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Wow, so you've got non-christians who are saying, right, okay, now wait a minute, you want to do surgery on my child?
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah because my child Believes it.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: No, that's that.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: No, you know?
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Wait, you got this book in the library.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, no.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: So even people who are not christians have said this is a bridge too far.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: So there's a tipping point.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: My worry, of course, is that you see people going to school board meetings and they're going to battle, but they're going to battle against fruit and not root.
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: That's the conservative non christianity Right, that conservative nationalism.
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: With that that we are Heralding up anything that's morally on our side, yes, and we're not getting at the root Right.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: I forget who it was that said it.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: But the further a society drifts from the truth, the moral hate those who proclaim it.
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: Yes and we are, more than ever during our day and age, seen a hatred.
• 22:33
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: Christianity and the things of Christ.
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: Yes, unquestionably yeah.
• 22:37
  Speaker 6: You know, that's the that.
• 22:38
  Speaker 6: I'm sorry.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: Oh, but that's the neo-marxist bent right.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Because in the neo-marxist bent you have that oppressor, oppressed right ideology, and the oppressor is the one who establishes the hegemonic power that's used and leveraged against all those who are minorities right.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: And in America the neo-marxists see it as white, male, heterosexual, cisgendered, you know on down the line, and then at the end of that is christian.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they see, ironically, the neo-marxist does see christianity as the root and foundation of western civilization, but they point to that as the root and foundation of the oppression Of all people who don't fall into, you know, those categories, and so that's why there must be again this war against christianity.
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I was reading a book recently by someone on the other side, out of curiosity and and I almost fell out of my chair because they will they say that facts are used as a tool for oppression.
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: Yes, facts are used as a tool for oppression.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, because they're singing from this sheet of music.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: They believe that there are different knowledges?
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they use that word.
• 23:57
  Speaker 6: Yeah different knowledges and different ways of knowing.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, he's crazy.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Ah, professing to be wise man.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Yes, so, vody.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: The subtitle for your book is Can Faith Thrive in a Post-Christian Culture?
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: So, for our listeners, explain what you mean by post-Christian culture.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, that's a phrase I borrowed from Francis Schaefer, and it's interesting for him to have been talking about post-Christian culture.
• 24:22
  Speaker 6: During his time.
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, during his time.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: And what I mean by that is not that Christianity is gone, right, that all vestiges of Christianity have faded away, Because that's not true.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: But the way that I illustrate it for people is it's like American culture is a petulant teenager who's decided I know better, right, I'm going to go out and I'm going to do this.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: He's not acknowledging the fact that every tool he has in his toolbox came from his family that raised him right, but he thinks I'm going to go and I'm going to do it on my own.
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: That's America as it relates to Christianity right.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: It is everything we are, it is everything that has made us great, it is everything that has built Western civilization.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: And we've now taken a few classes in college and we're saying that's trash.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go and I'm going to do something different.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: And every tool that we have that's worth having comes from the foundation that we're trying to run away from.
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: I love that man.
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: It's so true, and it reminds me of Tom Holland's book Dominion.
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: He is a non-Christian.
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: Yes, he looks at history and he says look everything that we desire to believe true equality, justice, caring for the poor.
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: All of these foundational beliefs that make us ticks are given to us by Christianity, and so what culture is doing now is they're taking the gift from God and they're distorting it.
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: They're trying to pursue it in their own ways and their own views, and it becomes disruptive.
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: But was justice becomes injustice.
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: So how do we get people to realize that at the core of what they're arguing for can only be found through the lens of the gospel.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: By telling them that there's another book that I wrote a few years back I can't even remember how long ago it was but Expository Apologetics.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: In that book it's all about how we do that and why we need to do that.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: Presuppositional apologetics right, we have presuppositions, they have presuppositions.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: They don't think they do.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: So we've got to show them that they do, show them what their presuppositions are, show them the end result of their presuppositions and how it ends in folly, and then come right back and say I have presuppositions, but here's where mine end up and oh, by the way, everything good in yours you stole from mine.
• 26:47
  Speaker 6: There you go Right.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: You know, Vody, all of us here at the table have kids.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: We were just talking a few minutes ago about our grandkids.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: I know that that's one of the things that fuels you with the passion you have to get this truth out, not just for our children, grandchildren, but for God's people all around the world and for generations to come.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: But if you're able to sit down with a young person today, obviously acknowledging the fact that all of God's truth is important for us to not understand, but in light of this current culture in the midst of which we're living, which truths would you encourage this younger generation to focus on, understand and learn to defend?
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'll answer that two ways.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: Long term, I am going to lean heavily on Creed's Catechism Confessions.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: Man yeah, right, I'm going to lean heavily on that and, by the way, we run away from that right because of our subjectivism and because of all of these other things.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: We run away from that right, but I'm going to lean heavily on that.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: Having said that, I'm also going to lean heavily on our meta-narrative.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: I'm going to lean heavily on creation, fall, redemption, consummation.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Learn that story.
• 27:57
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's good Know that story.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: And then Creed's, confessions, catechism's, building upon that foundation.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: Right, so we start with there's a God who created the world.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Man fell into sin.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: God sent a redeemer.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: Right the end of the age.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: All of that's wrong is going to be made right.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: And so, and then we take those three things Creed's, confessions, catechism's and we build up our knowledge and understanding and theological foundation in each of those four areas.
• 28:27
  Speaker 6: So good that's good yeah, I love that.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: You know, Vody, I think it was a year before last I was sitting in the audience at the Shepherds Conference and you preached a message on the Gospel and in there you used an illustration where you talked about strawberries, Strawberries, man.
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: No, let me just tell you, man, you got saved by strawberries.
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: We've been praying for years.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: I got saved again bro.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: Sitting in that message Seriously, I walked out of there.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: And to this day it's definitely one of the most powerful messages I've ever heard on the Gospel For our listeners.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Can you just kind of summarize the whole struggle?
• 29:03
  Speaker 6: Do it again.
• 29:03
  Speaker 6: No, all over.
• 29:04
  Speaker 5: Start to finish Welcome to Shepherds.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: Conference.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: I want to get saved yet once again, so can you just give us a.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: You know, summarize that bro, please, yeah, and it's.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: The idea is you know you have a kid and you bring your kid to the strawberry patch and the kid eats the strawberry and enjoys the strawberry and is not even original to me but the next thing you do is you take them out and they get you know a strawberry milkshake, and then they get you know a strawberry slushie, and then they get you know strawberry candy and eventually they're getting stuff that doesn't even have real strawberries in it, just strawberry flavoring and so on and so forth, and you do several years of that and then you take them back to the strawberry patch and they eat a strawberry and they don't like it.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: No, that's good, because it's not sweet enough.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: You know, first time they ate it until their face was, you know, full of it.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: But now they won't even eat it.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: And that's kind of where we are in our culture.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: As it relates to the Gospel, there have been so many watered down, you know, sugary, fake versions that when people encounter the true Gospel they find it offensive.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: And of course, in the message, what I said was the answer to that is to keep taking them to the strawberry patch and stop giving them the other stuff and eventually strawberries will taste sweet again.
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: People may be comforted by a lie, but it's the truth that we face inside the end.
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: How would you define truth?
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: I have a correspondence view.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: A correspondence view Truth is that which corresponds to reality, and, of course, I also have the revelation view, which is truth.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: Is a person Right and Jesus is truth, and so I bring those two things together Truth is that which corresponds to reality and reality is that which we receive from the one who is truth.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: And you bring those two things together and you have reason and revelation that continues to pursue not either or, but both and Right, and so this is why it's important?
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: Right, this is why it's important, because somebody responds back and they say right, well, your reality is not my reality.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: Truth is that which corresponds to reality.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: Your reality is not my reality.
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: Hence, we bring in the truth of the gospel, the truth of God's word.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: We are sanctified by his truth.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: His word is truth and this is why the presuppositional approach is the necessity within a conversation, Because when they begin to borrow from our world view, they have no idea of the detriment that lies before them.
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: We have to continually open up God's word and demonstrate as our source of authority, as they borrow from our world view, that they will not make sense of their own world view.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: That's why Absolutely, and of course, you show the contradictions.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: I do this in the book, right, you know, when you're talking about religious pluralism.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: Well, christianity believes that there is a God and that God has revealed himself in the person of Jesus Christ.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Well, buddhism believes that there is no God.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, those two things are mutually exclusive.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: Right, they cannot both be true.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: They can both be wrong, but they cannot both be true.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: So to the person who says your reality is not my reality, I point out examples like that to say, well, again, both of them can't be wrong.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: Right, but they can't both be right, right.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: Therefore, the idea that your reality is your reality and my reality is my reality cannot be something that we can stand upon.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Your presupposition is broke.
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: Not broken, it's broken.
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: That's beyond broken.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: Right, but with three syllables, yeah.
• 32:49
  Speaker 6: But oh, that's great.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: You know, voday, I'd love you to speak to the dynamics involved between and God's word was just mentioned as authority between the abandonment of the authority of Scripture in the church and the resulting drift in the things like theistic evolution, the acceptance of homosexuality, transgenderism, critical race theory, women, pastors, right, so yeah draw that correlation there?
• 33:13
  Speaker 6: Yeah, there is.
• 33:13
  Speaker 6: And when you?
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: see this.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: You see this in churches, and when I say churches, I mean you see this in individual congregations.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: You see this in denominational structures, all the time where there's a pattern.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: You don't start with women as pastors, you don't start with theistic evolution, you don't start with those things.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: It always starts with subtle shifts in relation to the authority and sufficiency of Scripture.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: Right, we start denying inerrancy and then we start denying sufficiency, and now, all of a sudden, we go to passages that are absolutely clear, and first we tweak them and then we outright deny them.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: Right, we deny everything.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: We start talking about Paul's deficiencies you know, thinking about the women as pastors, paul's deficiencies and all these things that he didn't know, that he didn't understand, and even Christ's deficiencies, things that he didn't know, that he didn't understand.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: When you talk about homosexuality, the homosexuals, what's their argument now, after you get away from this sufficiency in the authority of Scripture?
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: Well, paul didn't understand sexual orientation right.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: He would have understood pedorasty, but he wouldn't have known or understood sexual orientation, and so, because of those limitations that he had, he couldn't have possibly been writing about that.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: Well, you and I go, wait a minute.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: You got a much larger problem, because now you're denying that the God who, by his spirit, inspired the writing of the Bible, was deficient to get across what he intended to get across.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: Again, you track it back and it goes back to the authorities and the sufficiency of Scripture.
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: every time, you know, and it's funny, because these same people who are claiming to hunger and thirst for truth, they don't like the taste of it when it's served up.
• 35:07
  Speaker 6: No, Well, here's what's important they want slushy man, they want slushy strawberries, they want slushy Essence.
• 35:13
  Speaker 6: Yes, essence.
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: Here's the thing, though, is it's important for us, I think, to recognize the relationship between man and truth post-fall, because truth is an issue of the heart more than it is the head.
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: Often, we talk about truth as though it's like you know you can type in an address in your Google Maps and it's going to take you there, but what we forget is that we don't pursue truth with our mind.
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: We pursue truth with our heart, the things that we love, and I love to borrow from a non-Christian again, jonathan Haidt, in the Righteous Mind, uses great analogy, in which he says our heads and our hearts the relationship is like the president and the press secretary.
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: The heart is like the president.
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: It comes out, it makes a choice about the economy, about the way the world's going to work, and then it goes backstage and what comes out after that is the press secretary, the head, and the press secretary's job is to gather as much data as possible to defend the decision the president already made, and so he says like our heads work that way as well.
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: We're sitting there trying to defend the decision our hearts have already made, which here is where it's important is, we see pastors their hearts start to drift, and so then their view of the gospel or their view of scripture starts to drift.
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: How many?
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: pastors who have changed their view on homosexuality start with a child in their home.
• 36:32
  Speaker 6: That came out as gay Sentiment Right.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: And then the next thing you know they've done some mental and theological gymnastics and now they've reinterpreted scripture because of this experience with one whom they love.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, we see this happen in other arenas as well.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, you even have theologians.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: Respect theologians.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: A loved one dies, who didn't know Christ, and then they're grappling with the fact that they're in hell and it's like ah well, it can't be true.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: That's where we have to be careful.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: As God's people, we can't go by sentiment.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: God has revealed truth and we have to stick with it.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: You know, vody, we often use the term we stand on the shoulders of giants.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: What are some of the lessons we can learn from our forefathers in the faith when it comes to not compromising the truth?
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: One lesson and again I write about this in the book as well is that refusing to compromise on the truth brings suffering, and I've got a whole section where I deal with suffering.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: The book, by the way, is based on an exposition of Acts, chapter 4.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: And so what I'm arguing is that the experience of Peter and John in a pre-Christian culture is a shadow of our experience in a post-Christian culture, and one of the things is that's where the whole idea of neutrality not being an option comes from, and also the idea that suffering is inevitable, because if our culture can't be neutral to us, then it has to marginalize us and it has to persecute us, because that's the only way that they can hold on for a little longer, right to the things that they're holding on to.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: So I think, first and foremost, when we look back, we have to recognize that people suffered, and sometimes they suffered greatly.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: Sometimes they lost their financial wherewithal and sometimes they lost their families and sometimes they lost their lives.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: We've got to be ready for that, and that's hard for us as Americans because, again, to go back to what we talked about before our foundations and the foundations of Western civilization it's our worldview, right.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: So, because of that.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: What we've had in Western civilization, and in the United States in particular, is an unprecedented period in history where Christianity was not persecuted but actually put center stage and flourished.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: So as Americans, really over our whole history, we've had an experience that's alien to the history of the church.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: In the history of the church, christians have been persecuted, we've been outsiders right, and so now as Americans, we've had this very different, you know, epoch of time and as a result of that we're soft.
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, 100% we have no idea how to handle not being you know the guy, and this is where I actually get excited, because anytime well, I feel like there's a refining that's happening and what happens first, peter.
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: Refinement means more purity right, more pure church more potent church.
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: Yes, and I take hope in the first 300 years of Christianity, where it was significantly persecuted and yet it exploded.
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: It was a revolution that changed the world forever, and so, without personal Bibles, that's exactly right, yeah, so like what's yeah.
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: I mean, do you see hope in that thing?
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, you see hopefulness in persecution.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely do, and I see hopefulness in a couple of things.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: And again, talking about the example here and I've thought about this more you know we've lived now for eight years in Lusaka.
• 40:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: I'll never be able to think about that word again, luska.
• 40:26
  Speaker 6: Luska.
• 40:27
  Speaker 6: Well, I'm reading.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: It's relative.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: You know, I mean my truth.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: But something interesting happens when you get away and I don't mean for a vacation, even for a vacation, but when you get away from your culture and your cultural moorings, see things that you hadn't seen before.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and there are a number of things that I've just come to realize and appreciate.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: For example, you know we talk about federalism.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: You know, People in Lusin, zambia.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: Zambia is the size of Texas, with half as many people, and so they always want to know what it's like in America.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I always go, oh time out.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: You're doing with us what people do with Africa, right, People talk about Africa like it's one country right.
• 41:16
  Speaker 6: Yeah, that's good Instead of 55, right.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, over in Africa, eh, eh, eh, yeah, 55 countries.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: Well, in the United States there's 50 states.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah all right, christianity in Texas is not the same as Christianity in Maine.
• 41:32
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and one of the things that encourages me is that I've been in all of our 50 states.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: There are thousands of prophets who have not bowed the need of bail.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: We don't know most of their names.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Because they're shepherding.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: You know 50, 75, 100 people somewhere.
• 41:52
  Speaker 6: But they're faithful.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: Amen, they're strong, they're solid, right and I'm encouraged by that, you know.
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: Boy.
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: I forget who said it, but it was the modern day.
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: Christian melts like a chocolate bunny in the heat of modern warfare.
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: Let's replace that word Christian just with churchgoer.
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and we're seeing, I think, less and less churchgoers, kind of like after 9-11, when everybody just went to church.
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: Yes, right Now it's like if you want to claim the name of Christ, take something.
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: It's going to take something.
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: There's a bullseye on you.
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: And that's the move into post Judeo-Christianity, is because, like everybody you know, when it was a cultural phenomenon, like everybody wants Jesus, the Comforter, jesus, the Healer, jesus, the one that's going to give him a good marriage but Jesus Lord, lord of our lives, who demands our allegiance.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: And I think about 9-11 and I think about some of those events that happened after 9-11 and some of the people who spoke after 9-11, pastors being brought in to do different things at 9-11, you know, just from the president on down, you know some of those things that were said in the days following 9-11 would get people impeached today Big time.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: You know one of the things that's encouraged me.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: We've been doing a lot of ministry in Latin America and we were recently in Puerto Rico.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: Just hearing about a revival of expository preaching going on was just so encouraging Because again it goes back to the foundation of God's Word.
• 43:25
  Speaker 6: Amen.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: So well, Vody, this has been great, Real quick.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: Can you tell us what's happening in Lusaka in terms of your ministry, so people can know how to pray for you?
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, we're still there plugging away at the African Christian University.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: We're still there trying to train up and raise up students who will be cultural leaders in Zambia and the South Central African region and beyond that's great brother, we're encouraged.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: And how can people connect with you?
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: How can they get the book and find out more about what you're doing?
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah you know, you can get the book everywhere that books are sold and wherever the places are Enjoy buying books.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: You can go to VodyBacomorg and you can do it there.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: But you know I like for people to go to bookstores, I like people to go in there and because a lot of times you know my books will be you know my last book was a national bestseller and you go into places that remain nameless, like Barnes, noble and it wouldn't even be there.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: There are books that were behind mine on the bestsellers list that would be out front and center.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: And I'd have to ask them and they'd have to go back to the back and pick up one of the two copies that they have in the whole store.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: Hide it under their jacket while they come and give it to me to buy.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: So I like for people to go and just you know, go do that.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: Go press that.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: That's great.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: Well, brother, it's been a joy to have you on and we're encouraged by your stand for truth.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: Your boldness inspires God's people, so keep it up and I will look forward to connecting with you more Absolutely.
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: Thank you brother, it's been a pleasure.
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: And put away the strawberry milkshakes and go get yourself a real strawberry.
• 45:02
  Speaker 6: Oh, get a strawberry, get the real thing.
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: Go get a bunch of them.
• 45:07
  Speaker 5: Love it All right, amen that was great.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: If you can't say amen, say ouch.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: That's probably Vody's most famous quote.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: I use it often.
• 45:19
  Speaker 5: Love it.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, good stuff, I never heard that.
• 45:22
  Speaker 5: That sounds great, that's a great saying, yeah.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: If you can't say amen, say ouch.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: It's so good I'll share it.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: Sometimes when I'm preaching, to hear the whole congregation go ouch.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: So it works.
• 45:33
  Speaker 4: But yeah, Every time I stub my toe I'm like amen yeah.
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: Mark wasn't that good with Vody.
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: Boy.
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: I wasn't intimidated and being an X-Tone, but I wanted to be intimidated.
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: His wealth of knowledge and his desire for holiness inside the church and with the family Just his desire to want to raise a godly family and have people around him raise godly families is so infectious.
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: I absolutely love Vody.
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: After that interview I had, just like the strongest, craving for strawberry milk.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: Wasn't that a good illustration?
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: Though that's good, the strawberry thing, it's wonderful.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, who wasn't there, ray?
• 46:12
  Speaker 5: Comfort.
• 46:12
  Speaker 5: I wasn't there, yeah.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: I got my chickens to look at Chickens, chickens, chickens 25.
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you're up to 25 now.
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: Yes, is this an addiction?
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: It is.
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: Do we need to have like a I need counseling.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: No, there's more hope for a heroin addict.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: What do they call it when they get?
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: everyone in their room.
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: Intervention, intervention.
• 46:32
  Speaker 4: We need an intervention for you Seriously.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: I love my chickens.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: I'm normal.
• 46:36
  Speaker 6: I didn't even mention it.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: Hold on a second.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, friends.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: So sad to bring this to a conclusion, but we must please make sure to get Vody's book the Everloving Truth, and please stay our friends.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, and don't forget the starter kit, the Living Waters mug in the evidence study Bible at LivingWaterscom.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us, friends.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: We'll see you here next time on the Living Waters podcast.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: We'll see you next time.