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IFH 874: Do You Really Need Film School to Become a Filmmaker? with Miranda Sajdak · Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You are listening to the IFH Podcast Network. For more
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  Speaker 1: amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork.com.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Indie Film Hustle Podcast, episode number 874.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: You try to do it, and you do it honestly.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: You can't control people's responses, really.
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: Edgar Wright.
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  Speaker 1: Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood, it's the Indie
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to survive
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: the film biz. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Welcome, welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Hustle Podcast.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: I am your humble host, Alex Ferrari. Today's show is
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  Speaker 2: sponsored by Rise of the Filmtrepreneur, how to turn your
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  Speaker 2: independent film into a profitable business. It's harder today than
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• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Enjoy today's episode with guest host, Dave Bullis.
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: On this episode, we have Miranda Sajak. Miranda Sajak is
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: a film writer and producer and currently living in Los Angeles.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: And she recently joined with producer Sandra Levington to co-found
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: Script Chicks and Under the Stairs Entertainment. And she currently
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: has a GoFundMe campaign to raise money for her next project.
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: So without further ado, Miranda, how are you?
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: I'm good. How are you doing?
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  Speaker 3: Good, thank you. So everyone, this is the first test
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: of the new board. So if something sounds funky, it's
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: completely my fault, but I'm going to try my best
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: to blame everybody else. So Marina, just to get started,
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: the same question I always ask everybody is, you know,
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: how did you get started in the film industry?
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  Speaker 4: That is a great question. So when I was a kid,
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: my mom took me to see the movies and... The
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: first live-action film, other than, like, you know, your sort
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: of standard Disney animation that all kids see, that she
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: took me to see was A League of Their Own, which,
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: you know, is the sort of baseball movie about women
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: in the 40s becoming baseball players when the men went
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: overseas to fight in World War II. So... stars like
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: Geena Davis and Rosie O'Donnell and Madonna and Tom Hanks.
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: And if you haven't seen it, it's really amazing. But
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  Speaker 4: that movie just totally inspired me. And I left the
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  Speaker 4: theater saying, I want to make movies. I want to
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  Speaker 4: be a filmmaker. That's what I want to do with
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  Speaker 4: my life. And literally has not changed since then. I've
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: certainly gone through various stages where I've been a writer
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: and a director and a producer. And I've worked in
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: pretty much every set department there is. But it was
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: that moment that said to me, this is the industry
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: I want to be in. And this is why.
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  Speaker 3: So now I wanted to ask, did you go to
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: film school? I did.
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  Speaker 4: I went to Columbia undergrad.
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  Speaker 3: So now, now this is the million dollar question, Miranda.
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  Speaker 3: I've always asked this to people who've gone to film school.
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  Speaker 3: You know, do you think it is necessary to go
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  Speaker 3: to be in the film industry and And this is
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: an open-ended question. I mean, in any capacity, do you
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: feel it's necessary to go to film school?
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  Speaker 4: I am right down the middle with that. And there's
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  Speaker 4: a couple of reasons. I think it's very dependent on
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  Speaker 4: what you want to do in film.
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  Speaker 1: And.
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  Speaker 4: what your ultimate end goals are. And the reason I
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  Speaker 4: say that is because I think that there are things
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  Speaker 4: that can be very useful about film school. One of
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  Speaker 4: those things is, you know, just the basic networking of
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  Speaker 4: having a lot of people on your level who you
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  Speaker 4: can connect with and then later work with. I think
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  Speaker 4: that's useful. I think that's a big reason why a
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: lot of people end up going. And then, of course,
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  Speaker 4: the resources of any film school to later connect you
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  Speaker 4: with jobs or internships or the kind of work that
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: you may want in the industry. Additionally, I think that
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  Speaker 4: there is certainly use to the apprenticeship function of film school,
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  Speaker 4: whether that is learning how to use a camera, learning
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  Speaker 4: set etiquette, learning even just studying films so that you
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: know the history of film or you understand film theory
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: or you know, sort of the literature behind it all.
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  Speaker 4: I think there is definitely use to those things. And
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  Speaker 4: I think that those are things that you could learn
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  Speaker 4: on your own and that a lot of people do
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  Speaker 4: learn on their own without going to film school. I
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  Speaker 4: think for me, what was most beneficial was really having
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: teachers who were, or professors really, who were really culling
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: down the massive amounts of literature and films out there into,
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  Speaker 4: what they felt were important pieces of information to have
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  Speaker 4: processed and understand in order to go into the industry.
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  Speaker 4: And then also really learning set etiquette and learning the
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: different jobs on set and how they work and kind
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: of knowing all of that stuff before going into the industry.
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: So for example, while I was undergrad at Columbia, I
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: worked on a lot of graduate student films as anything
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: from a PA to an AD. And then I went
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: on and was able to take all of those skills
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  Speaker 4: to PA on Bourne Ultimatum and Cloverfield and a number
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  Speaker 4: of big films that were shooting in LA or in
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: New York at the time. And I wouldn't have been
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: able to do that with those same level of skills
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: if I hadn't had that training. So I think there
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: is certainly a benefit. On the other hand, to play
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: my own devil's advocate, I recognize that it is not
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: a necessity for every job. And I don't think that
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: it is a necessity in general. I've certainly known any
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: number of people who have not gone through film school
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: who are doing perfectly fine in the industry and any
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: number of people who, you know, just learn on the job.
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  Speaker 4: And it just, it very much depends on what you
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: want to do and how you, how your path is
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: and how you want your path to be. And I
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  Speaker 4: would never say that it is a necessity, but I
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: would also say that it can be useful for some people.
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: There's one thing I always ask some of my guests is,
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: it's about film school because some people feel very strongly
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  Speaker 3: about it on the one hand. And on the other hand,
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: some people say, you know, if I could go back,
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: I may just have just started off as a PA.
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Like meaning just from high school,
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: go right into the film industry and go on to
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: wherever I had to, to just apply to be a PA. Exactly.
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: And then just work my way up. And then just
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: sort of from a, being a PA, just sort of
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: find out what I want to do and go that way.
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: And then sort of, you know, sort of balances itself out.
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  Speaker 3: Cause that way I can learn set etiquette while I'm
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: doing and things like that. But I agree with you though.
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: It is a good way to network. Um, you know,
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  Speaker 3: it is, it does actually teach you set etiquette, which
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  Speaker 3: if you want to set, if you go on a
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: set for the first time, you know what I mean?
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  Speaker 3: Like it could be a culture shock for some people
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  Speaker 3: because they're not used to it. Um, but yeah, I
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: mean there, there's pros and cons and I, and it's
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  Speaker 3: always just a, a good, uh, you know, food for
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  Speaker 3: thought question I like to ask.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: I think it's a great question. And I think it's
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  Speaker 4: a question I'm not sure that we'll ever fully answer.
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  Speaker 4: because I really do think it is an individual basis.
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  Speaker 4: I think, you know, there are people who it works
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: amazingly for, you know, Dee Reese at NYU and, you know,
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: then getting Pariah and Bessie and she's just kind of
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  Speaker 4: had an amazing career based on her connections that she
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  Speaker 4: made there, you know, versus, you know, like a Spielberg or,
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: you know, somebody kind of starting out in the early
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: days like an Orson Welles or whatever when there wasn't
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: film school and yet he still made Citizen Kane, you know,
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  Speaker 4: so I think It's not a necessity, but I certainly
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  Speaker 4: think that there are times when it can be useful
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: for sure.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. And I mean, you mentioned your PA work,
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: which I wanted to ask about. You got to be
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  Speaker 3: a PA on Cloverfield and the Bourne Ultimatum. So how
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: were you able to get a job as a PA
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: on those sets?
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  Speaker 4: That was back when I was in New York. So
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: that would have been right around the time I graduated
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: from college. And That was either networking. So I think
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: one of them was a referral from maybe the other
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: one or from something I'd done similarly. And then one
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: of them, I think I applied either through the production
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: office or through a job posting. But I think I
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: applied through the production office because I know at the time,
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: and I'm not sure if they still do this. I
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: haven't lived in New York for a lot of years.
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: But at the time, the mayor's office of the film
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: would kind of release a list of job openings and
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: then you'd sort of have your standard list of like
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: what productions are shooting in town right now. And you
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: could essentially message the production office and just say like, hey,
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: I'm around. Do you guys need PAs kind of thing?
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: And I think that's how I got the first one
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: of those. And then the second one, I think, was
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: just a referral. So a lot of jobs in the
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: industry are really just networking and who you know.
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that is something that, you know, doing this podcast,
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: a lot of guests have said as well. It's all
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: about who you know. And there's a quote that I
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: always screw up, but I think it is, your net
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: worth is your network.
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely.
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: So what are some of the things that you learned
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: while being a PA? I mean, obviously those two movies were.
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: be right back after a word from our sponsor. And
• 10:06
  Speaker 5: now back to the show.
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: The budget for the Bourne Ultimatum was probably, you know,
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: 20 to 30 million. Cloverfield, I'm going to guess, you know,
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: 20 to 30 million as well. So, you know, it
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: was obviously much bigger than an independent shoot. So, you know,
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: we're getting to, you know, pretty big scale here. So
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: what are some of the things that you've learned, you know,
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: being a part of a crew that size?
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: You know, it's interesting because I pretty much have always
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: been working simultaneously on independent projects and studio projects to
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: an extent. Like I've sort of kind of kept that up,
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: even moving to LA in the development world. So I
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: You know, I think what I find really fascinating and
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: what I love kind of about both of them is that,
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: you know, they're both doing essentially the same thing, but
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: often in slightly different ways. For instance, like a Cloverfield
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: or a Bourne Ultimatum or a studio project, you know,
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: it's going to be a union project. It's going to have...
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: much bigger departments, much more people in each department. You know,
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: you're going to have days where you're spending a lot
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: more time on a certain shot, whereas an independent film,
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: you may have to steal a shot. You know, you'll
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: sometimes see a director or a producer moving a light, which,
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: you know, would never happen on a union film. Just,
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: you know, union rules and everything else just sort of
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: requiring that, you know, G & E kind of takes
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: care of that. So it's sort of a it's just,
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: it's doing things on a different scale, I think. And
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: I think that one of the things I love about
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: independent film is the ability to really be hands-on and
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: be involved in every department and, you know, have that
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: sort of tactile ability to really be involved in like
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: literally everything. But I will also say there's a definite benefit, obviously,
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: to the studio feature of just budgetary elements where, um,
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: you can kind of say, Hey, uh, you know, makeup
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: department deal with this and you don't have to worry about, um,
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: you know, having a makeup kit yourself that you're applying
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: to your actor while you're trying to direct them. So,
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: you know, I think that there's, uh, there's good and
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: bad elements to both. Um, but I would definitely say that,
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: you know, the studio projects are able to do a
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: lot more, um, You know, even though today in the
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: digital space, indie projects are catching up very rapidly.
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: You mentioned the unions. That is one thing that I
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: from doing like student projects, by the way, just to
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: let you know, I never went to film school. I
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: went to I chose the weirder path. I went to
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: business school. So some people I mean, that's good.
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: Some people are like, well, that's a good thing. And
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: I'm like, you know, it was like I had my
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: own my own weird way of getting there. And some
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: of the weird stories I have about going to business school,
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: but that is one thing. When I was in business school,
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: I was doing student films and stuff like that, and
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: I was helping friends out. And then when I finally
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: did my first professional film that was mine, not going
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: on anybody else's set, that's the first thing I was like, okay,
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: introduction to how to deal with the unions. And I
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: don't mean that in a bad way, because I know
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: that sounded kind of negative, but Okay, this is, you know,
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: you have to have this many breaks, this, this. It
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: was actually because we did a SAG new media agreement
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: for the actors. And that was actually pretty easy to get,
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: you know, to just to get. And, you know, there
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: wasn't really a lot of hoops we had to jump through.
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: And then just, you know, a couple of things here
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: and there. So it was actually a pretty easy time
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: on our end. But, you know, but going on to
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: the other sets, you know, you see all these different,
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: you know, unions doing different things. And I think a
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: lot of times that sort of blows people's minds who
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: aren't used to sets like that.
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: And there's meal penalties and there are certain rules that
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: unions impose upon the set. And then, of course, there's,
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: you know, even just from a budgetary standpoint, there's the
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: extra money that goes into hiring a union crew for
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: fringes and benefits and pensions and all of that stuff
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: that you kind of have to pay on top of
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: just the salary, which doesn't always come into play on
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: an independent set. Yeah. Um, yeah, I mean, it's, it's
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: a different world and it's a different scale, but it's
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: essentially doing the same thing. It's working towards the same
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: kind of goal.
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: So talking about your career, you know, from, you know,
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: being a PA and, you know, doing all sorts of
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: different work, you know, you ended up becoming a writer's
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: assistant and you got to be a writer's assistant on
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: a show. I really enjoy China, Illinois. So, you know,
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: how did you get to be a writer's assistant on China, Illinois?
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: Um, Yeah, I mean, the writer's assistant stuff started a
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: few years before that. The first writer's assistant job, or
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: I guess it was a showrunner's assistant job I had
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: was on Huge, which was an ABC family show, which
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: was created by Savannah Julian, Winnie Holzman, who created My
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: So-Called Life and wrote the script for Wicked and is
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: currently working on the Wicked Musical and is doing a
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: lot of other fun stuff. So that was sort of
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: my first writer's assistant job. And that was another one
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: of those, you know, your network is your net worth
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: kind of things where I was already friends with Savannah
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: and then I knew Winnie through her. So that was
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: sort of how I got that job. And then the China,
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: Illinois job was just a job application. It was posted
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: on a site that they were looking for a script
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: coordinator and I was sort of in between gigs and
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: kind of hadn't really done something like that in a
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: little while. So it was one of those, sure, I'll
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: shoot over my resume and see what happens. And something
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: like a few days later, they called me in and
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: I got the job the same day I interviewed. So
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: that was a pretty fast process. And they were, I think,
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: in the middle of their second season. So I was
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: sort of coming on in the middle of things. And
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: that was really a a really great learning experience. Everybody
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: on that team is amazing. They're so funny, and they're
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: so smart. And, you know, they have a really unique
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: tone to their show. I mean, you know, as a fan,
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: that they're very specific with what they do and with
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: their jokes. And, and I hadn't really worked heavily in
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: comedy before. So that was really enjoyable to be able
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: to step both into animation and comedy at the same time,
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: which I hadn't really had the chance to do. So Yeah,
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: I mean, it was a totally it's it's very different
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: from working in live action, but I actually really enjoyed
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: it actually a lot more than I thought I would
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: to begin with. So, I mean, I love all those guys.
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: It's a great show and I hope it has many,
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: many more years to go because it's just really, really
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: unique storytelling.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: You know, sadly, Miranda, I actually think they've decided to
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: not do any more seasons.
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: Oh, no.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember their.
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: Actors are also busy right now, so that probably has
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: a lot to do with it.
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember reading an article about it and they
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: actually basically said like they think this was it the
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: past season. By the way, anyone who hasn't seen China, Illinois,
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: it's basically about the worst college ever. And basically, Hulk
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: Hogan is the dean of the of the school. And,
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: you know, he voices the dean of the school, but
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: he basically is playing himself in a way. The show
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: is hilarious.
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: It's yeah, it's it's ridiculous. Like the humor is just bananas. Like,
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: You never see the joke coming. Like Brad Neely, who's
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: the creator, I genuinely think that he's a genius and
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: I absolutely think that he's the comedic genius for sure.
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: So what are some of the things that you learned
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: about writing? I know you're a writer too, obviously. So
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: what are some of the things that you learned from
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: the show that you try to put into your own writing?
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: Or maybe some of the things that you've learned just
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: from any of the writers in the show.
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. You know, on China,
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: I kind of came on after the writer's room was
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: sort of over. So most of the learning process was
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: really from Brad himself. And then prior to that, on Huge,
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: I was working directly with both Winnie and Savannah, who
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: were writing and then was familiar with their writer's room.
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: So, you know, I mean, it's tough.
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: It's sort of every show has... has their own style
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: and has their own different things that they like to do. So,
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: you know, I think, um, I, I, I suppose the
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: things that I've learned have been more, um, more about,
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: you know, the, uh, I guess the dealing with like
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: networks and studios and sort of the business side of
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: the writing, I suppose, has sort of been more what
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: I've learned from those experiences because a lot of the time,
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: and as a writer too, you know, a lot of
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: the time writing tends to be done in isolation. So
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: you sort of are in a room with a computer
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: creating your story or your idea or your characters. And
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: you're not really engaging with people in a big way.
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: So I wasn't like, in the room while, um, you know,
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: Brad was writing a script, you know, I was, I
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: was there when some ideas were being spitballed around, but
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: I wasn't really necessarily there like while he was sitting
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: there typing out his next line of dialogue or whatever. Um,
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: so for me, it was a lot of learning about,
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: you know, working with networks, working with studios, um, you know,
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: taking notes, um, learning how to do that in a,
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: in a respectful and, um, appreciative manner, which I think
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: is really important as a writer, because even though the
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: writing process is done in isolation, really nothing else in
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: the industry is, um, like pretty much everything else in
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: the industry requires other people and their input and collaboration.
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: And so for writers, you know, a big thing that
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: I talk to the writers that I give notes to
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: about and a big thing that I sort of try
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: and train myself to do is to just not have
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: a really big ego about it.
• 19:57
  Speaker 5: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
• 20:03
  Speaker 5: And now back to the show.
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: Because at the end of the day, there will be rewrites.
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: There will be a lot of rewrites. You'll have to
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: change things. You can't get too attached to any one
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: line or any one character or any one scene because
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: it's going to change. And so I think that's really
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: maybe the biggest lesson that I took away from it
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: was really just having that kind of humility when you
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: go into these kinds of bigger meetings or recognizing that
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: the job of it all is sort of under the
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: auspices of somebody else. And that kind of at any moment,
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: like that job could go away and it's pretty much
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: up to them to tell you notes and it's up
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: to you to take them. So as a writer and
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: even as a showrunner, you're really definitely still under the
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: control of the network and or studio. So that's definitely
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: a big thing that I learned from both of those
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: writers assistant jobs.
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: Using your own projects as an example, you know, um, you, uh,
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: you know, I'm looking at your IMDb actually right now. Um,
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: you know, so, uh, uh, you know, you did snapshot
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: and you did Santa baby in 2010, you know, um, was,
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: was there any sort of, I mean, both of those
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: are short films, by the way, uh, to, to people listening. Um,
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: so what, was there any like major changes you have,
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: you had to do with those? I mean, granted you
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: had more control, but you know, as you know, as
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: we all know, things change at the spur of the moment.
• 21:25
  Speaker 5: Totally.
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: Um, I'm trying to think, uh, with, you know, there,
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: there actually weren't both of those projects. Snapshot was a
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: co-write with Savannah Dooley, who I later went on to
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: assist on huge. And, you know, I sort of did
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: the first vomit draft and then she came in and
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: really polished it up and made it really fantastic. She's
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: just an amazing writer. So that was like the biggest
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: change was really her kind of second draft pass. And
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: then we kind of just went from there. Um, and
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: then Santa baby, I wrote myself, um, and it ended
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: up winning like second prize in like a Las Vegas, um,
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: script contest, which is very exciting, um, at the time.
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: And then that one didn't really change either. Um, come
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: to think of it, I think that sort of, uh,
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: you know, both of those scripts sort of kept their, um,
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: their storytelling, um, pretty much the same as they were
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: in their first or second drafts. But I think a
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: lot of that came down to me either directing or
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: producing or, um, you know, having oversight on those areas
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: as well. And, um, it's pretty rare for a writer
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: to also be their own producer. So yeah, I mean,
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: I think for those projects, um, there actually weren't that
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: many rewrites and, uh, yeah, snapshot did actually pretty well
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: at festivals considering that we didn't actually even do that
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: many rewrites. Um, but yeah, I mean, we were, we
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: were pretty excited about that one, but no, there weren't actually,
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: it's sort of funny to think about that now. Uh,
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: cause I am in the midst of rewrites on a
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: bunch of my projects that are longer, but, uh, for
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: the short film side of things, I haven't actually experienced
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: too much of that.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: Just to piggyback on that, that question then, you know, you,
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: you've produced some other movies as well. And, you know, uh,
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: What are some of the things that have, you know,
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: has there ever been something that has happened on set
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: that has made you have to change? Like, you know,
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: a location fell through at the last minute or it
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: started to rain. You know, is there anything that while,
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: you know, you were wearing your producer hat that something
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: sort of catastrophic happened?
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: Yes. I can talk about it. I'll talk about it
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: without naming the movie because I don't want to call
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: anybody out. But so shortly after I graduated from Columbia,
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: I was working on a project that was shooting in
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: upstate New York in the winter. And it was in
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: the middle of blizzard conditions. It was snowing every day
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: and it was icy and it was cold. And the
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: central climactic moment of that particular movie was a 14-year-old
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: girl helping a horse to give birth. And We sort
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: of learned over the course of the week while we
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: were shooting and we were actually shooting on a horse
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: farm that belonged to a family member of the director.
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: But we learned during that week something which I didn't know,
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: which is that you kind of can't predict when horses
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: are going to give birth. Like it just sort of happens. So,
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: you know, there were pregnant horses on the farm and
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: they could have given birth that week. But as we
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: got farther into the week, we learned that they actually
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: weren't going to. Like the vet was basically like, we
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: don't think that this is going to happen this week.
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: So you sort of get your like 20 minutes of
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: warning and then it happens. But like, otherwise you're sort
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: of like going by a lot of guesswork. And, um,
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: we basically learned on like day four out of seven
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: or something that like, it wasn't going to happen. And
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: there was supposed to be a day off for the
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: crew and the cast, um, on day five, essentially. And, um,
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: instead of a day off, um, basically I had to
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: find a horse farm in the area that had another
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: horse that looked like the main horse that we had
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: been working with the whole time that was pregnant that
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: we knew would give birth that day. Um, and send
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: the crew there essentially, and hope that the locations looked
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: similar enough that it would match. Um, cause we couldn't
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: do a location scout or anything. Uh, And we did it.
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: I mean, we found a horse that was going to
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: give birth and the 14 year old girl who was
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: our lead, or she might've been a 15, she was young. Um,
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: but our lead, uh, helped the horse give birth, um,
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: that night. So we, we did manage to make it
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: work in the midst of a blizzard in New York
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: in the middle of winter. And it was insane and
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: probably the hardest shoot I've ever been on. Um, but, uh, Yeah,
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: I would say that that was pretty catastrophic when I
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: learned that that horse was not going to give birth
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: and that I had to find a horse.
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: So how long did it take you to find a
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: similar horse?
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: Shockingly, not as long as you would think. We were
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: actually in horse country, but this was sort of like pre,
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: I'm going to like date myself right now, but this
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: was sort of like pre like internet days. Like there
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: wasn't like a lot of internet access where we were
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: and like, We didn't have cell phones or the Wi-Fi
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: or anything. So I had to use the landline to call.
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: And I was using the yellow pages to call horse
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: farms in the area. And there were actually a lot
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: of horse breeding facilities in the area because we were
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: right near, I think, Saratoga Springs, which is pretty well
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: known for horse racing and horse tracks and stuff. So...
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: there were actually a lot of breeders and farms in
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: the area. And we ended up having the option of
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: two different places by the time I got done with
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: my phone calls after about, you know, an hour of
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: phone calling around. So it actually didn't take that long.
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: It just was, you know, one of those moments where
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: your heart just drops and you're like, I don't know
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: anything about horses. Like, I don't know what to ask.
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: I don't know who to talk to about this. Like,
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: I know nothing. So that for me was, You know,
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: it's sort of, they say, like, you know, don't do
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: movies with, like, animals and children, basically, especially if you
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: don't have, like, a giant budget. And that was definitely
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: one of those moments where I just, you know, your
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: heart just dropped. You think, you know, all right, well,
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: we're not going to get this movie made. But we did.
• 27:45
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it made.
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: It looked great. I mean, you know, the birth was
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: fantastic and it was real and it was shot on.
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: And we were shooting on film, so we didn't have the...
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: option to like do a lot of retakes or, you know, anything.
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: So it was just, yeah, it was, it was pretty wild.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, those pre-internet days, uh, I remember, you know,
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: filming some of my projects, you know, pre-internet days. Uh,
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: and I, I mean, this was like 2007, 2008. And
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: even then, I mean, like that's when cell phones were
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: starting to come, become big.
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: But like, you still had to like pay a lot
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: for like five minutes.
• 28:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and they were like the big candy bar phones,
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: like the Razor, the Crazer. There was no.
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: Service anywhere, so you had to be in like a
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: city for anything to work.
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it just, you know, trying to find different
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: stuff was harder. Now, you know, it's like going on eBay,
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: for instance. I can find, obviously I can't find a horse,
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: but I mean, you can find.
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, most of what you can get for props, you
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: can like get for like a dollar.
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. Or, you know, I can find where the latest,
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: you know, one place I always tell people to shop
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: for props. I don't think it's... It's probably not that
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: good anymore because apparently they've caught on to this. But
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: the Goodwill stores.
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: Oh, totally.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: Because... But, like, I hear now what they do is
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: they have a person who's back there and they put
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: all the good things... They save them so they can
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: put them on the online store.
• 29:13
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that sucks.
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so... I, you know, but I could still find
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: like different props for almost nothing. Like, you know, like
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: I need a statue that we don't mind if it
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: gets broken. Oh, here's one for two dollars.
• 29:25
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: I mean, there's a lot of there's so many tricks
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: that you end up using, especially as a producer that
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: just kind of come into play over and over and
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: over again. And that's one of them for sure.
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I find the best skill for a producer is
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: besides having a network, which is a skill in itself
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: that I found, but also being as resourceful as possible
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: because I have worked with some producers who I am
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: in awe of.
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
• 30:01
  Speaker 5: And now, back to the show.
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: Some of the things that they got. I mean, one
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: producer I know got a Porsche, I think it was
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: Porsche or Lamborghini, one of those companies, to airdrop a
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: brand new Porsche or Lamborghini to the set for a
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: shoot they needed. And they actually paid for it. Meaning
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: Lamborghini or Porsche actually repainted and had it airdropped. And
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: I was like, my God, how did you finagle this? Yeah,
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: that's brilliant. I mean, some people I've just worked with,
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: I can do it all. And then we all have
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: stories of working with bad producers, too, who just sort of... Yeah. Yeah.
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: I have one person who I'm hoping to have on.
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: He has one of the worst producer stories I've ever heard.
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: He'll be on probably, gosh, months from now. But anyways,
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: back to you, Miranda. Sorry, I have a tendency to
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: go off on other topics. I wanted to ask you,
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: you started Script Chicks with Sandra Levitin. I wanted to ask,
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: what are some of the reasons that you started your
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: own company and what are some of the services that
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: you offer?
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, totally. So Script Chicks... We started about three years ago,
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: and I think we're probably going to actually be wrapping
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: it up pretty soon. But we both still do coverage
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: on the side, so we're still kind of like open
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: for business, but like technically. But essentially, the main reason
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: we started it was we had both walked away from
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: our jobs at the time. I was working as a
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: coordinator at an indie film company, and she was working
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: at a coordinator level in television business. And we essentially
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: both left those jobs to go out on our own
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: and produce. And we were sort of saying, you know,
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: all right, well, what are we going to do that
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: we can pay the bills and keep the lights on
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: while we're producing? You know, because obviously, especially when you're
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: producing indie projects and when you're starting at the short level,
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: which is where we were starting, you know, nobody's going
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: to hand you a check for that, really. Like you
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: kind of have to hustle yourself, you know, and generally, like,
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: even with crowdfunding, you know, as a producer, if it's
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: your own project, or as a director, if it's your
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: own project, you usually will crowdfund, but you will rarely
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: include a salary for yourself, because you recognize that, like,
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: that's your passion project, and you kind of have to
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: pay everybody else to be there. But like, you often
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: don't get paid. We put our own money into our
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: last project and we weren't getting paid on it. And
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: it's sort of the same with my next project that
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: I'm doing. So essentially, we knew that this was going
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: to be a few years of hustling really hard. And
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: we needed something that we could do on a freelance
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: basis that would permit us to still be producing and
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: be writing and be directing. So ScriptChix was kind of
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: formed based out of all of that and wanting to
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: be able to provide a service to writers because we'd
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: both worked in development for about a decade apiece. So
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: we combined about 20 years in the business of development
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: and reading scripts. And we knew that we could provide
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: that service and provide it well. You know, we had
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: clients who have gone on to sell shows to the
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: CW and ABC and Hulu and um, ABC family and
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: dimension and, you know, James Wan and like any number
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: of people in places. So like, we've had a lot
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: of clients that have gone on to do very big things.
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: So we, we knew that like, you know, should you
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: follow our notes and execute well, like you have a
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: pretty good shot of doing well and getting signed and,
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: you know, being, being pretty good. So, um, That was
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: something that we sort of all, you know, together felt
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: that we were going to be doing it on our
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: own and we sort of joined forces to do it together.
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: So that's sort of how Script Chicks was born, was
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: that sort of need to keep the lights on and
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: keep working and keep active in the industry, but also
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: be able to produce and direct and write on the side.
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: That's great, you know, because you always have to have
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: that stream of income. And then when you're, you know,
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: you're a producer or, you know, anything, when you're doing
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: it full time, you have to have multiple streams of income. Actually,
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: I took a course one time and this speaker kept
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: saying that every millionaire that he's ever worked with had
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: seven streams of income. Wow. And he kept harping on
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: that because that was sort of like the minimum number
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: of how they get to be millionaires. Well, they have
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: seven streams of income.
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: And he said like the first one wasn't like the first,
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: the top three weren't their job. It was like number
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: four or five or six was like their full-time job,
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: but the rest was like from different investments.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, totally. And that's sort of the, you know, that's
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: the thing. It's like, how do you get the passive income?
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: So that's definitely, you know, that's the end goal, I think,
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: for a lot of us in the business, especially above
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: the line is to really figure out how to get
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: those residuals coming in.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: Yes. And, you know, speaking of which, you know, you
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: currently have a GoFundMe campaign.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: To, you know, sort of fund your next project. So,
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: you know, could you talk a little bit about your
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: GoFundMe campaign?
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, sure. So I'm doing a GoFundMe right now. I,
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: you know, like I said, sort of at the beginning
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: of the podcast, really got into this to be a director.
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: That was sort of the end goal, big dream, you know,
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: beyond the writing and producing side of things, which I
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: love to do, but which weren't, you know, the passion
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: from when I was quite young. And The last project
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: that I directed, it probably thinks that it was Santa Baby,
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: but I think it was actually Snapshot. But that project
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: did actually pretty well in festivals and it went to
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: Outfest and we went to Palm Springs and we went
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: to a number of festivals around the world. And we're
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: very excited about that one. And then shortly after that,
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: I ended up sort of in the world of full-time
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: work and then founding script chicks and working on producing.
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: And so I realized sort of in the middle of
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: last year that it had been a little while since
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: I'd actually directed anything, despite the fact that that was
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: sort of, you know, the primary goal of me getting
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: into the business to begin with. So I wrote a
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: short in November that got really positive feedback from, you know,
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: my very trusted readers, because, you know, like I tell
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: all my writer friends, you know, get a reader and
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: I have a few who I trust implicitly to give
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: me good notes because I don't want yes men. I
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: want people who are going to tell me, like, fix this.
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: So I did a script back then, and I've gotten
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: really great responses from pretty much everybody who's read it.
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: It's an action piece that follows a female undercover cop
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: who robs a bank for the mob but then finds
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: herself on the run from her former partner's. So it's
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: got some interesting twists and turns and it's definitely action-packed.
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: And I essentially started the process before I'd even started
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: crowdfunding by sending it out to my friend, James Kyson,
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: who played Ando on Heroes. And then he was really
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: interested in the project. And then I sent it out
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: to another friend, Pia Shaw, who was just on Grey's
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: Anatomy and has done Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and a few
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: other semi-recognizable, you know, TV shows and films. And she's
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: just an amazing actress and they're both just so talented. So,
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: you know, for me, the project has five characters and
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: I've now officially cast two of them. I have a
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: hopeful third waiting in the wings. And I'm really just
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: excited to Do something action based. You know, a big
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: thing for me is diversity and women in the industry
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: because the numbers are really low and they're really bad
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: right now. And we've been hearing a lot of that
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: in the media. Obviously, you know, the New York Times
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: has covered it and there's investigations by the Equal Employment Commission. And,
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: you know, pretty much there's a lot of stuff going
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: on about women directors and minority representation. And, you know,
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: with Oscars so white, that's obviously an issue as well.
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: So it's something that has been close to my heart
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: for a lot of years. And it's something that I
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: think this project is going to allow me to sort
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: of take head on in that I will be doing
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: a project with I think the majority of cast will
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: be people of color. And, you know, obviously, as a woman,
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: I will be behind the camera. So it's pretty exciting
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: to be doing something that is really just a flat
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: out fun action thriller. Like there isn't some secret hidden
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: social message within the movie. Like it's not, you know,
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: trying to challenge the status quo from the inside. It's
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: literally just a really fun action movie that just so
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: happens to also be really diverse. So that's sort of
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: always been kind of like my way of addressing political
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: situations is that I I don't want to preach to anybody.
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: I don't want to tell anybody how they should think
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: or what they should do. But I really just want
• 39:27
  Speaker 4: to make entertaining product that promotes diversity, you know, behind
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: and in front of the camera. So that's sort of
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: been always my message. And I think that this project
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: is going to really be able to do that.
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember, you know, reading in your GoFundMe page
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: that you were hoping to create something like the raid.
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: And I was like, wow, that's awesome.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: Um, because the rate is an awesome movie. If you
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: haven't seen it, anyone listening to this.
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I'm, I'm a huge action fan. Like I will
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: go see pretty much any action movie on like opening weekends.
• 39:59
  Speaker 5: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
• 40:06
  Speaker 5: And now back to the show.
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: So whether it's like white house down or the raid
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: or all of business fallen or San Andreas, like you'll
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: see me there on opening weekend. Um, I'm just an
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: action junkie, so those kinds of movies have always been
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: something that I've loved. And this one definitely is taking
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: inspiration from those for sure.
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: Miranda, we've been talking for about, you know, like 30,
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: almost 40 minutes now. So in closing, is there anything
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: you wanted to maybe add or anything you sort of
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: wanted to say to sort of close out this entire conversation? Yeah.
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: You know, yeah, I mean, I think that it's just
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: it's really exciting. First of all, thank you for having me.
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: So it's great to be able to talk to you.
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: You know, you meet a lot of people on Twitter,
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: but don't always get to actually speak to them. So
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: that's fantastic. And I love your podcast. So I'm really
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: excited to be doing it. But yeah, I mean, I think,
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: you know, I would hope that anybody listening would get
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: something beneficial from this. You know, we've had some good
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: discussion about the film industry and what's going on behind
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: the scenes and in front of the camera and You know,
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: if anybody wants to hit me up, it's easy to
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: find on Twitter. I'm at Miranda Sajak and Sajak is
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: spelled as it should be S-A-J-D-A-K. And then, yeah, I mean,
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: my crowdfund is GoFundMe.com slash Miranda directs and yeah. I
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: think those are it. I mean, that's sort of, you know,
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: the gist of it all. But I'm always happy to
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: answer questions about screenplays and the industry and what it's
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: like and my projects. And I love hearing what other
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: people are working on. So I'm pretty open to just
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: having a chat.
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: And everyone, I will link to all of those links
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: in the show notes. I follow Miranda on Twitter and
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: we're big Twitter pals, right?
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I meet so many people on Twitter and
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: I really try to engage on Twitter. I mean, that's
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: sort of like my favorite social media site. Yeah, me too.
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: And I always try to talk to everyone I can
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: who's not like a spam bot or some kind of
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: porn bot. I get those a lot too. I get
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: those too.
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: What's that about? They're showing up suddenly. I don't know.
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: They come in waves. Yeah, they do.
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: I'll get like four at a time. I'll be like, whoa.
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and sometimes though, it's hard to decipher between the
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: two because- One was just, like, this girl. She had
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: a normal name. She was, like, she said she was
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: a social media ninja and all this other stuff.
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: Yes, I think I have her. One of those.
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: There's probably one of her. Yeah, and then all of
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: a sudden she's, like, DMing me, like, hey, go here
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: and we can date. I'm like, what? I know.
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: Like, the I'm a cam girl, like, click here. And
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: I'm like, really, though?
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: Like, are you?
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: Okay, yep.
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: Okay. Miranda, it has been great talking to you. Everyone,
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: you can find me at DaveBullis.com. Twitter, it's at Dave
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: underscore Bullis. You can follow me even if you're a
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: porn bot, as we were just saying. Miranda, I want
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: to say thank you and I want to wish you
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: the best of luck with your GoFundMe campaign and, you know,
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: with all your future projects.
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much, Dave. Thanks for having me on.
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: Oh, my pleasure. And I look forward to having you
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: back on sometime.
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: When you finally finish this movie, when you get everything raised,
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: I want you to come back on and you can
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: talk about the project.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: All right, great. All right, Miranda, I want to say
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: thanks again and, uh, Have a great weekend.
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: You too. Take care.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: Bye-bye. I want to thank Dave so much for doing
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: such a great job on this episode. If you want
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: to get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: head over to the show notes at IndieFilmHustle.com forward slash 874.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: And if you haven't already, please head over to FilmmakingPodcast.com.
• 43:40
  Speaker 5: Subscribe and leave a good review for the show. It
• 43:43
  Speaker 5: really helps us out a lot, guys.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: Thank you again so much for listening, guys. As always,
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: Keep that hustle going. Keep that dream alive. Stay safe
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: out there, and I'll talk to you soon.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle Podcast at IndieFilmHustle.com.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: That's I-N-D-I-E-F-I-L-M-H-U-S-T-L-E.com.