Latest / Around the House with Eric G®: Home Improvement Remodeling & DIY / From Timber to Triumph: Treadline's Secrets to Perfect Hardwood Floors!

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From Timber to Triumph: Treadline's Secrets to Perfect Hardwood Floors! · Around the House with Eric G®: Home Improvement Remodeling & DIY

• 0:04
  From coast to coast, it's the nation's number one home improvement radio show and podcast with certified kitchen designer Eric G.
• 0:13
  In this special episode, we're celebrating the American worker, the tradespeople, builders and craftsmen and craftswomen who keep this country running.
• 0:22
  It's all here.
• 0:23
  It's around the House, the Labor Day best of Sit back, relax, and get inspired.
• 0:30
  Welcome to the around the House show, your trusted source for everything about your home.
• 0:34
  I'm Eric G.
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  Thanks for joining us today.
• 0:37
  We have got an episode for you guys today that is we have been talking about for a while, and I've wanted to do it, and we finally have done it.
• 0:45
  We've got Titus and Kelly from Treadwine, Treadline Hardwood out there.
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  They are my neighbors, and they got to come on the show because I believe what these guys are doing.
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  And you know something?
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  We haven't divided really dove into hardwood flooring and flooring like that like we should have in the past.
• 1:03
  So this episode is for you guys.
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  Welcome to around the House.
• 1:07
  All right.
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  Thank you.
• 1:08
  Well, we're gonna have a fun discussion today, because I tell you what, flooring is one of those things that I think is very rightfully so intimidating for many homeowners out there.
• 1:20
  And it is something that sounds so easy, but to do it can be so difficult, or you got to be really skilled to do it, especially when it comes down to refinishing and things like that.
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  I have seen so many contractor disasters, let alone homeowner disasters, of running down to the big orange store and grabbing the most aggressive sander and taking half the floor off with it.
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  What do you guys see out there?
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  I mean, we see.
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  We see a lot of that.
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  And I guess, generally speaking, it is a little bit more difficult than people.
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  People.
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  People realize when they start.
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  And I would say the biggest thing is just what a lot of people don't realize is the.
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  The.
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  The devil's in the details when it comes to hardwood floors.
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  I think anyone can go pick up a sander from Home Depot and.
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  And bring it into their house.
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  But when it comes to all the handwork and all the minor things around the edges and things like, that's really where professionals shine opposed to a homeowner, no question.
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  And I tell you what, I have seen so many horrific sanding jobs out there where it looks like you walk in a room, and I'm like, this has more waves than the Pacific Ocean does in it, because obviously
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  things were not done correctly.
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  Second and third and fourth, that I.
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  I do inspections on wood floors.
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  All the time.
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  And people don't realize how much technicality is required to, to sand a floor properly.
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  And it can get out of hand.
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  Very quickly and it's all depending on the finish.
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  I mean, Kelly, you, you, you're a little bit different in this where Titus is really treadline hard hardwood all the way through on that.
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  That's what you guys do.
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  But you're also one of the national experts as far as what I could say about you for flooring all together.
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  So you do a lot with tread line and then of course you've got a whole bunch.
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  You do outside of that.
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  Yeah, I'm a, I'm an inspector with the National Wood Flooring association, so I go around when something does go wrong with the hardwood floor and I insp, talk to all the people involved, find out kind of the hows,
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  whys, because of the failures and, and, and professionals can fail too.
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  So it's, it's not just homeowners.
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  So that also speaks to how difficult it can be to get your floor right.
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  So yeah, no, I, I, I see a lot of, of things that go wrong and try to help when I can, especially on the cred line side, prevent those things from happening.
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  So, but it's so crazy.
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  People go out, buy that home and maybe it was built in the 70s, 80s or 90s or even early 2000s, and who knows what finishes on there.
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  And half the time it's some like weird white pickled oak or white oak or something that looks kind of a milky white or even a pink.
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  And they think, oh, great weekend project, I'm going to fix that.
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  And it's so far from the truth.
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  Yeah, yeah, definitely.
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  And then it gets so much deeper than just the sanding portion.
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  We haven't even really touched down on finishes yet as far as what finishes to choose, the application process and then all the different chemical makeups between all of them to make sure that they play nicely together.
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  And I've definitely seen my, my own horror stories of people calling me, having me come in and fix what they've done and the kind of things people come up with is pretty crazy.
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  Well, I think that one of the big problems that I see out there is that there's so many different finishes depending right on the age of the product that's down there.
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  It could be waxed from the 50s, it could be an aluminum oxide that was pre finished and all those are way different preps just to get a finish on it, right?
• 4:55
  Oh yeah.
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  Oh yeah.
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  For example, some of the wax floors things like that you need different chemicals to strip them off.
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  They'll clog your sandpaper, things like that.
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  Aluminum oxide is its own animal in the sense that aluminum oxide is a type of sandpaper.
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  So you, you find yourself sanding sandpaper with sandpaper.
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  And even for us as the pros, depending on the size of the project, it's, it takes twice the time for us to get through that.
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  And then you have just like your water based in your Swedish finishes.
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  I don't know if you know about those, Eric.
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  Yeah, they don't like to play nice either.
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  So if you don't sand them all the way off, they'll, they won't mix when you put the new stuff back down.
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  So it gets pretty deep.
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  Especially when you, I mean it's like basic one on one.
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  You're trying to mix water and oil.
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  Yeah.
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  They don't go well together that way.
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  So I get that you've got waxes out there which if you put, if you got any wax on it and you put something that's a water based finish on it, it's just going to fish and create a mess.
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  If it even cures that bad.
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  Yeah, I like to go ahead.
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  I was gonna say there's also situations where, you know, some of those older floors where you've got waxes and different things that have soaked so deeply into the pores of the wood when the floor is sanded that doesn't
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  always come out completely and sometimes the sanding because of the heat and stuff will actually reactivate it and come up to the top and then it reacts with the finish.
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  Right.
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  So you can have some, some issues when it comes to that type of stuff too.
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  That.
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  But you'd never know that any of that was even in the floor when you go to sand it.
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  Yeah, that's, that's those rookie mistakes that we see out there.
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  And I think to me my favorite floor is a hardwood floor.
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  I like the, I've, I've seen enough issues with.
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  There's a lot of people.
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  I'll just put the pre finished stuff down.
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  I get it.
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  But to me as a homeowner and as somebody doing the project myself, you're just not going to get the same look when you put a pre finished product down.
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  What's your guys's take on that?
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  I'm.
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  I'm not the biggest fan of it personally.
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  Well, well, I mean, I guess it kind of depends.
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  Right.
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  Because there's.
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  When it comes to pre finished there's tons of different levels.
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  Right.
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  You have your solid Pre finished, which is going to be your real wood.
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  And I guess in my mind that's real wood and you could refinish it just as many times as your sand and finish on, on site floor, right.
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  And then you go into some of the engineered products and some of those last just as long as the sand and finish on site.
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  Right.
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  Because there's only so much that you can sand out of them before they're trash, no matter what.
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  And then from there you have the engineered, which is the cheaper stuff.
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  Obviously that's it's wood but it's not quite a complete substitute.
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  And so I guess from my opinion, as long as you're educating yourself properly and picking what works best for you and what you got, I have known I've got no problem with it.
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  Nice to me with, I've always had dogs and pets and things like that.
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  To me I love that finish over the top and I know it's not foolproof, but I sure love the, the sand and finish in place because to me it just gives it a smoother look.
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  I don't have little micro bevels or something to catch dirt in and all that other stuff, but that's my take on it.
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  I know other people like that look and I have no problem with it.
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  It's a personal opinion, but to me I sure like the look of just a well done finished floor that was done on site.
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  I think some, some.
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  Something to note about that is the finishes that they put on site, the pre finish, right.
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  They're done at a factory, are very different than what we put on site.
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  So for example, what is put on site is typically something that has a little bit more stretch in it.
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  Like a urethane type base of some kind, whether it's a water base or something like that.
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  What they put on at factories has a typically, it's typically more of an aluminum oxide type finish which has, it's a, it's a harder, more I guess you could call brittle finish versus kind of the stretchy finish.
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  And so they wear very differently.
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  So a site finish floor, typically you go, you'll get scratches, dents, dings, that kind of stuff.
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  But a lot of times the finish is a little more stretchy.
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  So you don't see it in the same way.
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  You almost see like dents a little bit faster.
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  Especially when it comes to like pets and different things like that where the aluminum oxide, because of that brittle, that oxide is actually a crystalline structure and when it scratches, it scratches white.
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  So you see it more presently maybe a Harder finish on like a scratch resistant test.
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  But you see that scratch much more apparently on the floor.
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  So some people think, oh, this finish isn't wearing well, it's not holding up or something like that.
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  It's doing what it's supposed to be doing.
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  You just see it in a different way.
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  And a lot of people don't realize that until they're living on the floor.
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  That makes sense.
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  It's more like a scratch on a black car than it is on the hardwood.
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  And then people go clutch the pearls.
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  And.
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  And the other issue is, is how do you fix that?
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  You've got a, on a, on a pre finished floor, man, you're very limited on what you can do with that.
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  Stick around.
• 9:40
  We have a lot more of the Best of Labor Day special of the around the House show.
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  We will be.
• 10:03
  Welcome back to this Labor Day weekend best of episode of the around the House show.
• 10:09
  Eric G.
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  Has been chatting with Portland, Oregon's Treadline Construction and have been discussing flooring for your home.
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  Now let's get back to Kelly and Titus from Treadline.
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  Yeah, pre finished floors, there's a couple issues.
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  Number one, you're typically dealing with products that are warranted by the manufacturer for a certain number of years.
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  And if you start to mess with it, you lose your warranty.
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  The other factor is if you're going to fix it.
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  Generally speaking, it's hard to do individual boards unless you have leftover stock.
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  Right.
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  If you bought extra when you first put the floor in, which a lot of people don't even think about.
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  But yeah, if you don't have extra boards and you go to try to replace a couple of them, that floor may not exist anymore.
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  Or you're dealing with old versus new.
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  Right.
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  A floor that's been down and you've worn on it, it's been exposed to UV oxidation, wear and tear, all of that, it's going to be a different color, different sheen, all of these different factors.
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  You bring a brand new board and put it in the middle of your floor, it's going to look kind of crappy.
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  So those are things to think about.
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  Well, not that brings up a good point.
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  Wood species is a huge deal because I love a black walnut 8 inch wide plank floor.
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  But if I've got windows, that's now an issue.
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  I've seen some stuff where it's a view home and they've got a pool and it's reflecting off a couple surfaces and all of a sudden that stuff looks like driftwood in two years because all the UV is just
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  destroying it.
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  Yeah, yeah.
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  I mean, so we.
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  There's definitely some.
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  There's definitely differences between some of your species and your photosensitivity.
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  Right.
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  And then on top of that, just the hardness level.
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  Depending on what people are planning on doing with their wood floors, you might want to think about how hard it is if you have kids or pets or something like that.
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  For example, like, Brazilian cherry is pretty common over here in the Pacific Northwest.
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  We see it on a lot of the houses built in the early 2000.
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  Very, very hard.
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  Comes out of the Amazon rainforest, but very photosensitive.
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  So within about six months, it's already started its.
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  Its first color cycle.
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  And it'll go all the way from kind of a pale pinky red color, all the.
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  Like a deep blood red.
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  And the amount of times I've seen people flip their rugs, the ones that are underneath the sun, and it's just pale floor underneath.
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  And the unfortunate thing is stuff like that, it just doesn't sand out.
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  Those are just stuck forever, but very hard.
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  They hope it catches up when they move the rug again.
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  They do, they do.
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  Usually if people move their rugs, usually by year one or two, they'll start to blend together.
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  But.
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  Yeah, I've seen that happen so many times.
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  I've seen.
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  I had a house probably 20 years ago in Seattle that they ran into some issues, and they had.
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  The painters had.
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  Came in and taped off the floor, and there was a lot of sun coming in off the Puget Sound, reflecting in there.
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  And they pulled it up, and there were tape marks everywhere.
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  And they just had to wait it out, which was not their answer they wanted to hear.
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  But there was not really another way to deal with it.
• 13:07
  No.
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  Yeah, it was on the cabinet.
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  So it had cherry cabinets.
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  It was on the floor.
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  It was just one of those things where it was just a.
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  All right, guys.
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  I mean, the.
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  The contractors were in there trying to take the.
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  Put halogen lights and taking the UV filters off, trying to get stuff to.
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  To equal out.
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  But it was a nightmare.
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  And sometimes that tape can cause a headache with something that's really, really sensitive like that.
• 13:30
  Exactly.
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  Well, it's important to note that all floors, all wood species, are sensitive in some form or fashion to light.
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  And again, oxidation, wear and tear, all of that, they will change color over time.
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  There are just certain species that are more prone to that than others.
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  Right.
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  So typically, most people here in the Northwest have like, an oak floor, red oak, white oak, something like that.
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  There are the popular exotics.
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  Brazilian cherry, walnuts, Things like that.
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  But there are species that are more photosensitive than others.
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  So if that's something that somebody would be concerned about, and if you're very sensitive and you can't stand having those lines or issues show up, then you should stay away from those species that are more photosensitive, for sure.
• 14:15
  Well, in the 90s and 2000s, we saw hard rock maple going in places and things like that.
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  And boy, that stuff can yellow and look not what you hope it looked for.
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  And pretty quickly, depending on the finish.
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  And again, how much UV control is coming into that place.
• 14:29
  It seems absolutely there are ways that you can kind of minimize some of that, too.
• 14:34
  There are some additives that you can put into some of the finish finishes nowadays that are like UV filters.
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  They act as almost like a.
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  Like a sunscreen.
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  That'll slow down that process.
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  I usually will recommend those if people do have photosensitive woods like maple or Brazilian cherry or walnut.
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  And then also you can manipulate with color.
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  So stain color.
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  Right.
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  So you could.
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  You can utilize a stain color, which will also kind of act as like a sunscreen for your wood, and it will slow down that.
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  That color change process.
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  Again, it will absolutely still change over time.
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  You just may not be to see it with the naked eye kind of a thing.
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  So that's another way that you can kind of address some of those issues.
• 15:15
  That's cool.
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  I like that.
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  Now there's so many new.
• 15:19
  Lot of changes I'm seeing out there when it comes to hardwoods.
• 15:22
  I'm seeing companies now starting to advertise.
• 15:26
  And again, this is.
• 15:27
  I don't know the answer to this, but I'm hearing companies actually advertise, we've got waterproof hardwood floors.
• 15:34
  How do you do that?
• 15:35
  I scratch my head as a former contractor DIYer and Go, all right, there's a cut in there someplace.
• 15:42
  How are you going to do that?
• 15:43
  It doesn't make sense to me.
• 15:45
  But is there actually a product out there that's kind of like that, at least?
• 15:49
  Well, when people are talking about waterproof floors, they're likely talking about some of your plastic vinyl products.
• 15:54
  The click materials, things like that, I assume is what you're referring to.
• 15:58
  And when it comes to those, the product itself.
• 16:02
  Yeah, it's waterproof in that, in essence, it's just a hunk of plastic.
• 16:06
  Right.
• 16:06
  But there's so many other factors involved.
• 16:08
  Like, could I install it at the bottom of my swimming pool and it would probably be fine.
• 16:12
  Yeah.
• 16:12
  But on the other hand, it's not impermeable to water in the sense that if someone spills something or something like that, it will still seep between the gaps.
• 16:21
  And then the real problem that you're going to have is because it's like a solid layer of plastic, this moisture gets trapped underneath it and it'll end up rotting out your subfloor.
• 16:30
  We've seen that countless times and it seems to be we see it mourn now than we have ever in the sense that these LVTs and SPCs, these plastic floors, have kind of taken the world by storm.
• 16:41
  And it's been a bit of a challenge for us people pushing real hardwood because it's real and.
• 16:47
  And so we've started to see more and more of that start to appear.
• 16:51
  But I guess to answer your question, they are waterproof.
• 16:54
  Yeah.
• 16:54
  There's a hardwood company up in Seattle, I forgot what their name is, but they're actually trying to promote a waterproof solid hardwood.
• 17:02
  And if they say it's in their finish, I'm like, man, there's no way I would put that in a bathroom and expect that to get not damaged just with kids or anything else.
• 17:11
  But that's me there.
• 17:13
  There are a couple products out there where they've used some sort of form or fashion to almost like impregnate the actual wood species itself with some sort of finish type material.
• 17:26
  It's it.
• 17:27
  They're pretty unique.
• 17:27
  They're not popular on the market, but there are a few out there.
• 17:30
  So they, it could be one of those products they're utilizing that sort of technology.
• 17:35
  I've also seen some where instead of like a typical wood backing on like an engineered floor, they'll use a plastic backing.
• 17:44
  So it's an actual piece of wood that's kind of been almost seated in a plastic form of the core, if you will.
• 17:53
  So some of those they'll try to pass on as quote unquote, real wood that's waterproof.
• 17:59
  And like Titus said, yeah, could you put it in your pool?
• 18:02
  And it'd probably be fine.
• 18:03
  But there are other factors that may go into the fact that it's maybe not quite as waterproof, lifeproof, you know, impenetrable.
• 18:12
  A lot of those tend to be a marketing gimmicks when it comes down to it.
• 18:16
  I mean, if you really look at the warranty information, a lot of times there's a lot of disclaimers.
• 18:21
  So.
• 18:22
  So just be careful what you're, what you're picking and make sure you understand the entire product is what I would say.
• 18:27
  Yeah.
• 18:27
  There was one time this was probably 25 years ago when bamboo first came on the market.
• 18:32
  And I went, I'm going to try this maybe 30 years ago, a long time ago when it first showed up at Costco.
• 18:38
  And I went, oh, I'm going to do this on my entryway and see how it worked.
• 18:41
  I had it in there for maybe a month and a half.
• 18:42
  And I'm like, this is coming out.
• 18:45
  Stick around.
• 18:45
  We have a lot more of the Best of Labor Day special of the around the House show.
• 18:51
  We will be right back.
• 19:03
  Welcome back to this Labor Day weekend best of episode of the around the House show.
• 19:08
  Eric G.
• 19:09
  Has been chatting with Portland, Oregon's Treadline Construction and have been discussing flooring for your home.
• 19:16
  Now let's get back to Kelly and Titus from Treadline.
• 19:19
  It could not hand.
• 19:20
  I was like, this is the most horrible product.
• 19:24
  It was just getting, I had kids, but it was just getting tore up so quickly.
• 19:28
  And boy, I'm happy I didn't do the whole house with it.
• 19:31
  But it was just fell apart so quickly.
• 19:34
  Once you got through the wear layer on it, it just came apart like it was grass.
• 19:38
  It was kind of.
• 19:39
  It is, it is.
• 19:39
  Basically it's a fast growing tree, ish, grass, whatever you want to call it.
• 19:44
  And basically they just take the fibers, pull them all apart and then put them back together with a bunch of resins.
• 19:51
  And they're very sensitive to moisture.
• 19:53
  So a lot of people don't realize that.
• 19:55
  So in an entry where you've got people tracking in mud and rain and whatever, obviously it's not going to be a good fit.
• 20:03
  A lot of the bamboo products that are now out on the market, they still have a very high hardness durability to them, but they're so linear in, in their look.
• 20:13
  Every scratch, dent and ding, you can see right away.
• 20:16
  And then again, they're pretty sensitive to moisture.
• 20:18
  So they could be a right fit for the right person in the right home.
• 20:21
  Everybody's got a little bit different lifestyle, a little bit different expectation of what they want their floor to do.
• 20:27
  So finding the right floor, whether it's the right species, the right color, the right texture, the right format, whether it's solid or engineered or anything like that.
• 20:35
  There's a lot of factors that go into picking the right floor and not every floor is right for everybody.
• 20:39
  Great point, Kelly, Great point.
• 20:40
  And one of the things too is you got to be very careful, you know where that's coming from because I've seen some of the bamboo products come out with just they keep it from turning black because they've dipped
• 20:51
  it in formaldehyde overseas.
• 20:53
  And you can have some other health issues with that if you're sensitive to that.
• 20:56
  It's something you got to be really careful with.
• 20:58
  Sure.
• 20:59
  There's certainly products out there.
• 21:01
  You want a quality product when you're, when you're purchasing something.
• 21:04
  It's a pretty big investment for just about anybody.
• 21:06
  This is not a small investment.
• 21:08
  Even if you're going for a lower cost floor, it's still a pretty big investment and something that you should be able to live on for decades if it's the right floor.
• 21:16
  But if you're choosing something that's a little bit inferior quality, you don't know where it came from there.
• 21:21
  There could be all kinds of different things that could affect the outco of how it, how you wear on it, whether it's off gassing, certain things.
• 21:29
  Definitely do your research and into the product and make sure you're.
• 21:32
  You're getting something quality.
• 21:34
  Yeah, yeah, I totally agree with Kelly.
• 21:36
  And I guess on top of that, bamboo is kind of its own special thing in the sense that it's, it's been a big victim of greenwashing.
• 21:44
  There's a lot of, a lot of, a lot of manufacturers or manufacturers in China or wherever that, that'll send these over.
• 21:51
  And they're advertised as eco friendly products and people will choose them over traditional hardw wood because they, they think that cutting down trees is bad.
• 22:00
  But what they don't realize is that these floors, these bamboo floors are being created in a, in a factory.
• 22:05
  Right.
• 22:05
  They're being impregnated with resins and formaldehydes and who.
• 22:08
  Who knows what else.
• 22:10
  And then they're being coated with different coatings that, that sometimes aren't.
• 22:14
  Aren't the best.
• 22:15
  And then they're being sent across the ocean.
• 22:17
  Most of your traditional oaks that we see over here are usually coming from northern United States, Southern United States, Whether it's a red or white or Canada.
• 22:25
  And all they're, all they're doing is they're getting.
• 22:28
  And most of these mills that these mills are these loggers in.
• 22:32
  Sorry, I lost my train of thought.
• 22:33
  That's okay.
• 22:34
  Yeah.
• 22:34
  I mean.
• 22:35
  Well, what, what you have is, is Titus.
• 22:37
  It's interesting because you've got a very clear path to market with that.
• 22:42
  They're cutting it down.
• 22:42
  It's going to the logging truck, it's going to the mill.
• 22:44
  Everything else where I've seen videos of what was 15 years ago with some of the bamboo products where they were, they get in there with a backhoe, they dig these big pits and fill it up with formaldehyde and
• 22:55
  they're cutting the bamboo down, dipping that in before it goes out so it doesn't get, get to kill the mold, the mildew and all that stuff on it.
• 23:01
  And then it goes out and gets made into flooring.
• 23:03
  And I'm like, yeah, that's a whole different path to market than what you see with the traditional hardwood.
• 23:10
  For me, pretty black and white.
• 23:12
  That's not green.
• 23:13
  To me, it's way greener to be putting in a American hardwood there and get something that's fairly locally sourced.
• 23:20
  Yeah, yeah.
• 23:20
  And, and I guess what I was going to say was to.
• 23:23
  Safe forestry practices are required by the US at this point.
• 23:26
  If you, if you're logging trees in the United States, you need to have, you have to meet those certain regulations and have those plans in place.
• 23:33
  And there's just that, that china or wherever your bamboo is coming from, they're not practicing those sustainability practices when it comes to any of that.
• 23:40
  And obviously the, the journey from the forest to the mill to your front door with some of these traditional North American hardwoods is significantly better in a lot of ways.
• 23:50
  Yeah.
• 23:51
  So out in finish and maybe.
• 23:53
  Kelly, this is a great question for you on this one.
• 23:56
  There's so many different finishes that I'm seeing out there in the marketplace.
• 24:00
  And first off, when I tell people, hey, I'm thinking about doing my, my floors, I always say the first place isn't to go to the home center.
• 24:06
  Go to a place if you're going to DIY this, understand the different products because you don't want to be getting in the home center.
• 24:14
  You want to be actually working with people that actually know hardwood floors.
• 24:17
  What are the finishes that you're liking out there?
• 24:20
  And again, it's depending on the look, whether it's a matte finished oil based or one of the new water based finishes or urethanes out there.
• 24:28
  What are you seeing in the marketplace today that you like?
• 24:31
  So there's a couple different factors.
• 24:33
  One of the bigger ones is going to be durability.
• 24:35
  Right.
• 24:36
  So how long is it going to last?
• 24:37
  Because you don't want to be refinishing your floors faster than you want to.
• 24:42
  Because again, another big investment.
• 24:44
  Right.
• 24:45
  So durability is a huge factor and every single type of finish has a little bit of different durability.
• 24:50
  One of the specialties that that Treadline uses is what's called a Swedish finish.
• 24:54
  It's an acid cured, solvent based conversion Varnish sounds really scary.
• 25:00
  It's not.
• 25:00
  It's a good finish.
• 25:01
  It's a very good finish.
• 25:02
  As far as durability goes, it is the most durable thing that can be applied to your floor on site today.
• 25:09
  Then the second most popular one is probably a water based finish.
• 25:12
  So instead of that acid cured, solvent based.
• 25:15
  Right.
• 25:15
  You've got a water based type finish.
• 25:18
  Right.
• 25:18
  These finishes are typically two component.
• 25:20
  Right.
• 25:21
  So kind of like epoxy but not quite so brittle.
• 25:24
  But the durability between the two is, is night and day.
• 25:27
  So like a water based finish, a typical refinish is going to be somewhere in the five to seven year mark.
• 25:32
  A Swedish finish you're typically going to get somewhere between 10 and 20 years depending on your lifestyle.
• 25:37
  That may not be a factor.
• 25:38
  If you're a little grandma with that, never has anybody over and you wear socks like a water based finish would be more than sufficient for you.
• 25:45
  But you know somebody who's got five dogs and five kids and wear shoes all the time, they're going to want something a little more durable.
• 25:51
  Right?
• 25:52
  Right.
• 25:52
  They also have very different looks.
• 25:54
  So like a Swedish finish typically gives you a little bit more richer, deeper, more.
• 25:58
  I don't want to say amber because that's a bad word in, in today's market, but a little bit more of an oil type look to the finish where a water based finish has a typical like white milky, sort
• 26:10
  of like a plasticky look to it which may also be very popular.
• 26:14
  Right.
• 26:14
  So a lot of the like Scandinavian looks and kind of of the, the more modern lighter looks that that water base might be a good finish for color.
• 26:22
  Color versus durability.
• 26:24
  Those which one's more important to you.
• 26:26
  And then there's also other finishes out there.
• 26:28
  One that I really like is it's called a penetrating oil.
• 26:31
  It's not a film based finish.
• 26:32
  So a film based finish, like the Swedish and water based that we're talking about is a film that sits on top of your floor and you wear down on it over time and then when that's worn off, you
• 26:41
  put more film on it.
• 26:42
  A penetrating oil is an oil that actually seeps into the pores of the wood, freezes inside those pores, hardens and that's where your durability comes from.
• 26:52
  It actually raises the hardness level of the species of wood that you're putting it on.
• 26:56
  And those floors when you're wearing on them, you can't see the scratches in the same way because you're, there's no film that you're scratching on.
• 27:05
  So if you're kind of looking for something that's a more natural, like no sheen, like a very traditional European sort of look, a penetrating oil might be a great option for you.
• 27:16
  You.
• 27:16
  So there's a lot of different options out there.
• 27:18
  Those are just three of my favorite ones and the most popular ones that we see, especially here in the Northwest.
• 27:25
  But every single one has its own pros and cons.
• 27:28
  And I would certainly talk to a professional about what would be right for your home because.
• 27:34
  And your lifestyle because everybody's got a little bit different factor that needs to be considered.
• 27:40
  Yeah, that makes sense.
• 27:42
  And I'm sure, Titus, when you're out at the job site talking to people out there, it's.
• 27:46
  There's 22 variables.
• 27:48
  Right.
• 27:48
  That go into that decision making process of what's going to be the right floor for you.
• 27:53
  Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 27:54
  And it.
• 27:54
  And it's a lot like what Kelly said.
• 27:57
  If you have dogs and kids and things like that, then and you live up more of the traditional American lifestyle, everybody's in and out.
• 28:04
  Everybody's always doing things right, things like that.
• 28:06
  And you're looking to basically have your floors done and be done and very minimal maintenance.
• 28:11
  Typically, I push people in the direction of a Swedish finish.
• 28:14
  Right, right.
• 28:14
  With the understanding that durability is the priority and maybe looks are second when people are really trying to achieve that.
• 28:21
  That kind of European white oak look, which is really, really in right now, kind of that matte European white oak look, water based is usually the direction I push them if they're willing to give up that durability.
• 28:31
  And then these penetrating oils that Kelly mentioned, they're a little more DIY friendly in the sense that they're a little bit more forgiving because you don't actually have a sheet of plastic on your floor that shows every little
• 28:41
  detail.
• 28:42
  Stick around.
• 28:43
  We have a lot more of the Best of Labor Day special of the around the House show.
• 28:48
  We will be right back.
• 29:01
  Welcome back to this Labor Day weekend best of episode of the around the House show.
• 29:07
  Eric G.
• 29:07
  Has been chatting with Portland, Oregon's Treadline Construction.
• 29:11
  To find out more about the show, head to aroundthe house online.com now let's get back to the show and wrap up our discussion about flooring in your own house.
• 29:21
  It's actually better for you to live in.
• 29:23
  It actually will change your energy bills.
• 29:25
  Your, your heating, your actual heating system and air conditioning system are more efficient.
• 29:30
  And then all of your wood products in your entire house.
• 29:33
  And it's not just the wood floor, it could be the, the, the wood casing around your windows and doors, trims your cabinetry, all of that stu.
• 29:40
  Sensitive to that.
• 29:41
  A lot of times you don't pay attention to the little gaps and cracks that are everywhere or whether they swell up or, or shrink down.
• 29:47
  But those are happening all the time throughout your entire structure.
• 29:51
  Yeah, I saw insurance claim probably 10 years ago and my background as a kitchen a bath designer, they had your typical 80s 90s thermofoil cabinet.
• 30:02
  So it's the particle board with the vinyl wrapped around them that's shrink wrapped.
• 30:05
  I walked in and, and I have never seen woods just swell up like that.
• 30:11
  Well, come to find out it was a rental and the people had.
• 30:14
  In the basement had a pot shop going down there.
• 30:17
  So they were 80% humidity in this house and they were doing the basement.
• 30:22
  And I had never seen anything explode like that because the doors had fractures from where the vinyl had just tore apart because the particle board really had swelled up probably 30 or 40% just from the humidity.
• 30:38
  And I wish I would have taken better pictures back then because it just told such a story about humidity in the house.
• 30:45
  Of visually, what happens if you don't control it.
• 30:48
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 30:49
  And I guess kind of the, the other side of it, a really dry floor, you'll have problems as well.
• 30:54
  We talk about all the extremes because they're, they're the ones that are most catastrophic when it comes to high humidity levels or high levels of moisture on the other, on the other hand, and low humidity levels, you'll end
• 31:04
  with up with very gappy floors.
• 31:06
  And then typically they'll get loose and you'll develop squeaks and pops and, and other issues.
• 31:11
  And I've seen, I've seen it go both ways.
• 31:14
  I've seen installers install floors that are too wet and they dry out in the house and shrink up.
• 31:19
  And I'll get phone calls.
• 31:20
  Hey, my floor is really poppy.
• 31:21
  It's bouncing around.
• 31:22
  Things are doing stuff.
• 31:24
  It was nailed down.
• 31:25
  I don't know what happened.
• 31:26
  And it's just the floor just shut.
• 31:29
  Shrank down and it's too small.
• 31:32
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 31:33
  And then, then that's a hard one.
• 31:35
  Says okay, what are you going to do to get it?
• 31:37
  Are you going to raise humidity in there slowly?
• 31:38
  What are you going to do so you don't over.
• 31:41
  Over compensate for that?
• 31:43
  Yeah, yeah.
• 31:43
  And unfortunately, if you're.
• 31:44
  If the floor was just that wet and it shrank that much, there's really nothing, nothing you can do.
• 31:51
  You make your whole house that makes sense.
• 31:53
  So I wanted to give a little public service announcement too, for you DIYers and even contractors out there, there.
• 32:01
  If you're working in that old house and you see this black tar adhesive on the hardwood, slow your roll and do some testing.
• 32:13
  I have seen so many social media pictures out there of people, hey, I'm working on this.
• 32:18
  And what's this gummy stuff?
• 32:19
  I'm just gonna sand it.
• 32:21
  That can be an issue.
• 32:22
  So be careful.
• 32:23
  That asbestos mastic out there, there.
• 32:26
  It can be an issue, guys.
• 32:28
  So be careful out there when you're.
• 32:29
  When you're trying to take down or save that old 1920s floor that maybe somebody in 1955 said, I'm not finishing.
• 32:36
  I'm putting this vinyl down.
• 32:39
  And, well, you could have a hot mess going on there, and you could make it a lot worse if you don't handle it correctly.
• 32:46
  Titus, how do you guys deal with that stuff?
• 32:48
  Is that somewhere you just bring in the asbestos people, let them take care of her, then come in afterwards?
• 32:52
  Or what's the best way to.
• 32:53
  I've seen it where it's almost cheaper to rip it out, unfortunately.
• 32:56
  Yeah, so it's.
• 32:57
  It's a little bit dependent, unfortunately, with asbestos.
• 33:01
  You have to call the asbestos people and have them take care of it, even if they have to tear it out in the sense that we're not allowed to disturb it.
• 33:08
  Asbestos or lead paints, those need to be tested as well.
• 33:11
  After.
• 33:12
  After they're tested, obviously we can do what we need to do.
• 33:15
  Even those.
• 33:15
  Even that.
• 33:16
  The gummy black tar mastic, even if it tests negative for asbestos, it's still quite a bit of work.
• 33:22
  Typically, we're actually using planers attach to our drum sanders, custom made planers to shave all that off, because you'll be there for.
• 33:29
  You'll be there for weeks trying to get it off.
• 33:32
  I had that at my brother's house where we had that same thing.
• 33:35
  And he had an old house in Yakima, Washington, that was 1920s, and the second floor had a fur floor down, but they had went down to Lolium City or whatever and threw something on it and had all that
• 33:46
  black on it, and that was a nightmare.
• 33:48
  Tested it, it was fine, which I thought was kind of rare.
• 33:51
  I was happy about that.
• 33:51
  But.
• 33:52
  But there was no easy way to get that stuff off without making a hot mess.
• 33:56
  There's no easy way.
• 33:57
  Some things that we've done in the past is we've actually installed hardwood floors on top of their existing hardwood floors, which I know some People advocate against the layering, but when you have asbestos abatement, it's.
• 34:08
  It can be a pretty costly fiasco when you have to deal with that.
• 34:12
  You are able to install wood floors on top of your existing wood floors.
• 34:16
  So you just run it perpendicular to your existing and you can add another layer.
• 34:22
  There we go.
• 34:23
  We all saw what happened to.
• 34:24
  What was that?
• 34:25
  Was that Trader Joe's here in Portland?
• 34:27
  When somebody.
• 34:28
  I don't know if you saw that one, Titus, but Trader Joe's was having some work done and they went scraping away and sanding away on the.
• 34:35
  On the tar mastic while the store was open.
• 34:38
  And that was shut down, I think for three weeks by the contractor, cleaning the store up.
• 34:43
  And I'm like, holy smokes.
• 34:45
  That had to been an expensive mistake.
• 34:46
  Yeah.
• 34:47
  Imagine what that insurance claim was, was for that contractor, because that was ugly.
• 34:53
  But that was.
• 34:55
  It was interesting news.
• 34:56
  When I saw it, I was just like.
• 34:57
  It was just a gut punch.
• 34:58
  I'm like, oh, someone who didn't know what they were supposed to be doing.
• 35:03
  Yeah.
• 35:04
  Or didn't know what to look for.
• 35:05
  The.
• 35:05
  Right.
• 35:06
  We'll look and go that.
• 35:07
  That's probably asbestos.
• 35:09
  You should get it tested, I guess, if you don't know.
• 35:12
  Yeah, you don't know.
• 35:12
  If you don't know.
• 35:14
  And that's why bringing in the right professionals to look at the job can really be key.
• 35:19
  And.
• 35:20
  And Titus, what.
• 35:21
  What do you recommend for people out there?
• 35:23
  There's a lot of people out buying homes right now, and they're walking around and they see that, boy, the hardwood could be cool, but it's the wrong color.
• 35:30
  If someone is going to reach out to you guys and say, when do you like to do that in the process, to me, it makes sense to before you move in, to go have it done.
• 35:39
  So that way you can have it cured and ready to go and you don't have to be moving furniture around.
• 35:42
  But for those new home buyers out there looking for.
• 35:45
  For older homes that they want to refurbish, when do you recommend that to be done?
• 35:49
  As far as the wood floors go.
• 35:51
  Yeah, as far as wood floors, maybe it's got that 1970s white oak and Lake Oswego, let's say.
• 35:58
  Yeah.
• 35:58
  Do you recommend they go ahead and just do that right off the bat?
• 36:01
  Oh, yeah, Yeah.
• 36:02
  I mean, so even us as professionals, we try to be pretty efficient about it, and it's still a pretty painstaking process.
• 36:08
  We've got HEPA filters and dustless sanding systems in place, but it's still not necessarily at nice place to be and moving all your furniture out.
• 36:17
  Everything you have, everything that's on the wood floor has got to come out.
• 36:21
  And then typically people have to be out of the house when we're actually doing the finish coats on the worst case.
• 36:26
  So I definitely recommend.
• 36:27
  If you're purchasing a new home and you're thinking about doing the hardwood, it's much better to bite the bullet and do it now before you move in, and you'll be done.
• 36:37
  So well, you're not spending the week out at the coast or doing something, going on vacation while it's done because.
• 36:42
  Because you can't really be hanging around there.
• 36:45
  Yeah, yeah, people can be around.
• 36:47
  At least for the sanding portion.
• 36:49
  We've got the dustless part down to a science.
• 36:51
  The guys aren't wearing masks when they're sanding the floor anymore.
• 36:54
  But when it comes to these finish coats, I would say the majority of the finish that we put down is that Swedish finish that Kelly mentioned earlier.
• 37:00
  It's some pretty stinky stuff.
• 37:03
  The stuff.
• 37:03
  The fumes in the air are pretty substantial.
• 37:05
  We're wearing full face respirators.
• 37:07
  Our noses are burning, our eyes are burning.
• 37:10
  It's nasty stuff, but it cures pretty quickly.
• 37:13
  So usually people gotta be out of the house for two nights is what we tell them.
• 37:16
  And usually they'll go off to the coast or wherever that is for those two days, and they can usually be back in the house as soon as that next day after we put that final coat down.
• 37:24
  Because it's.
• 37:25
  Because it's a conversion varnish, kind of like an epoxy.
• 37:28
  It cures very, very, very quickly.
• 37:30
  And so if you can avoid doing it while living there or you have the opportunity to do it before you move in, that's the time to do it for sure.
• 37:38
  Amen.
• 37:39
  All right, guys, we're running out of time.
• 37:41
  It goes so quick.
• 37:43
  What is the best way if someone's out there going, man, I'm in the Portland area and holy smokes, I gotta get Treadline out to my house.
• 37:51
  How do they find you guys?
• 37:53
  The best place to find us is probably on Google.
• 37:55
  If you Google Treadline, hardwood comes right up.
• 37:58
  We actually gotta just finished building our new website, so there's tons of good information, educational information on there about what things to expect, what to look for, just good resource.
• 38:08
  Or you can reach out to us, US at 503-85-530 and get a hold of the office and likely you'll talk to me.
• 38:15
  There we go.
• 38:17
  There we Go.
• 38:18
  So, Kelly, you still out there doing stuff?
• 38:20
  Looking.
• 38:21
  If people want to have you come in as an expert and go, oh, my gosh, I got a mess.
• 38:24
  How do I fix this?
• 38:25
  How do people find you?
• 38:27
  Yeah, so I'm available on the National Wood Flooring association website.
• 38:33
  So they can go to that website, I believe.
• 38:35
  Believe it's hardwood.org they can also contact Treadline Construction.
• 38:39
  Treadline can get a hold of me, or they can contact me directly on my cell.
• 38:44
  My cell is 503-327-5461.
• 38:49
  I'm happy to talk to anybody that has questions, needs, just maybe even a consultant.
• 38:54
  But if they're having an actual failure and need an actual inspector, I can do that as well.
• 39:00
  So nice, guys.
• 39:01
  Thanks for taking the time today.
• 39:02
  And, and you guys out there in the Portland area and nationally across, there's always going to be somebody good in your area, whether you're down in Florida or New York or any one of our places out there.
• 39:15
  Find your local experts in Portland.
• 39:18
  These are mine.
• 39:19
  But you're going to have some around there that, that really know what they're doing, what works great for your climate.
• 39:24
  So search out those people out there if you're looking to get your floors done.
• 39:28
  To Treadline.
• 39:28
  You guys always do beautiful work out there and appreciate you guys taking the time today.
• 39:33
  Yeah.
• 39:34
  Thank you.
• 39:34
  Thanks for having us.
• 39:35
  All right, guys, I'm Eric G.
• 39:37
  You were listening to around the House.