Latest / Crew Collective / He Likes Off Kilter People: Say Hi, ft Eric Elbogen

Transcript

He Likes Off Kilter People: Say Hi, ft Eric Elbogen · Crew Collective

• Stuart: [00:00:00] When you got an email from a random guy, me, uh, about making a podcast somewhat focused on outer space, did that surprise you? Eric: No. No, not, not really. You know, sometimes I get emails like that and it's like a little bit off kilter and I'm like, yep, that's my people out there. Stuart: Good. I'm glad they joined the ranks of the off kilter. I like that. So this is the final full episode for season one and it's a little bit different. Ostensibly, everything we've done so far has had some kind of outer space theme. Usually just as an off-ramp to tell bigger stories about art and the creative process. Earlier in the year when we were planning out the season, I knew I wanted to do an episode about music and the challenges facing the music industry. My background was in radio and live music events, so the topic has always been pretty important to me. So I begin making a list of musicians [00:01:00] who make space steamed music or albums or even songs, say Hi and indie rock band. Or actually just one guy from Seattle does not fit neatly into that box. But like I told our producers, Matt and Travis, it just kind of feels like space music that was good enough for them. So I went with it, which is a good thing because Eric Bogan was cool enough to chat with me a while back. Eric is the guy from Seattle I mentioned. He plays under the name say Hi, and has been a fixture on the college radio airwaves and indie rock scene for more than 20 years now. Eric: Sometimes it's rock and roll music, sometimes it's weird electronic music, and that's kind of what I do. Stuart: He started say hi when he lived in Brooklyn back in oh two, which was the epicenter of new and innovative music at the time. Since then, he's put out a dozen records initially on his own label, Ophia Records, and [00:02:00] later the Seattle based label bar suck records. Like a lot of indie bands from the era say Hi has been able to maintain their indie status while still having some mainstream success here and there. Their songs can be heard in movies and TV shows like Shameless Scream For and Crazy Stupid Love. So for the uninitiated that's broadly who say Hi is now I'm gonna take a stab at making a space themed connection. When say hi began to break out sometime around oh four, they had a song called Let's Talk About Spaceships from their albums, numbers and mumbles. It was kind of a big deal for them. That song was one of the ones that really helped put them on the map and, and the 20 odd years since then, track names like Galaxies will be born, constellation afterlife. The stars just blink for us. And even a song called Colonize the Planets from one of Eric's side projects combined with a lot of futuristic looking cover art. I have always kind of given off [00:03:00] what I personally consider to be a spacey vibe. Eric even told me that the most recent say hi album Elocution. Prattle is loosely inspired by a sci-fi novel. So it all works out. We get some space themed dart for the episode, and I can help tell the story of a massively underrated musician. My name is Stewart, and this is Crew Collective, a podcast about storytelling. Each episode we explore the stories that help shape us. Books, movies, songs, anything. Season one is all about space stories. And in our final episode of the season, I'll talk with a guy behind a unique and beloved indie rock band who make music that just kind of feels like outer space to me. Anyway, that's next.[00:04:00] Matt: Crew Collective is brought to you by Rocket Genius makers of Gravity forms. Gravity Forms was the first premium WordPress contact form plugin launched in the space over 15 years ago. Since then, brands like NASA Delta and Stanford University have relied on gravity forms. For their WordPress form data. But so have tens of thousands of freelancers, agencies, and small creators powering payment forms to newsletter signups for small and large alike gravity forms, understands their mission, build amazing software that people trust. Learn more@gravity.com and we trust you, enjoy Crew Collective as much as the team at Rocket Genius did making it. And now my conversation with Eric from say hi. Eric: You know, I, I'm surprised when you were talking about the songs that you wanted to focus on. I, I really thought that it was the left to talk about Spaceship Song that [00:05:00] would've been the, the catalyst for all of this. So I'm surprised that you didn't pick that one, but that, that was sort of, um, early on, one of the, one of the songs that helped. Kick things off. Um, and it's a good song. Thank you. Yeah. And, and there were, uh, you know, t-shirts and tote bags that didn't even say the bad name. They just said, let's talk about spaceships. So maybe that sort of seeped into the collective conscience and that's why you, you think about space. Stuart: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think in general, uh, I mean, I know you did almost like an entire album about vampires. Um, a couple of them. Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm kind of curious about like some of your early influences, both like musically and like pop culture. Eric: Sure, sure. Well, you know, um. I sort of listened to all, all music. When I, when I started the band, I was probably [00:06:00] listening to a lot of what would be considered like college, radio rock alternative stuff back then. Um, and that's sort of what I was thinking of when I made the first couple records. Um. Pop culture wise, a big realization when I started this band was that I just, I didn't wanna take things too seriously, and that's kind of why there's, throughout the the catalog, there's kind of a sense of humor and. I think that that's based on like pop culture stuff, film and TVs and TV and books that I saw that didn't take itself so seriously and it's sort of been something that I need to remind myself of and, and keep in mind as I go on and I continue to make records and do shows and stuff because Star Trek fan at Stuart: all.[00:07:00] Eric: A little bit. Yeah, I'm, I, I would say I'm more of a Star Wars guy. Oh, okay. I know. I don't know that those two are exclusive, but the Star Wars universe seems to resonate with me a little bit more than Star Trek. Stuart: I don't know how best to describe this other than to say, I think like there are bands and musicians out there who have this ability to kind of create their own little world around them. And even though I can't really maybe define it right now in a way that would resonate with a lot of people, I do feel like with say Hi, there's a certain aesthetic to it. Both kind of in like what you see in the album art and in how the music sounds, is that. Uh, is that, is that reasonable? Am I crazy? Eric: No, I appreciate you saying that, and I, I don't, I don't even know if that's a, that's a, a conscious thing that I've attempted or that's just how it has played out. But it, it, you know, it in the same [00:08:00] way that we were talking about, like, getting an email about space and thinking that all the off kilter people are my people. It's, you know. It's a similar thing with, with the records and the people who have become fans of the band and people who come to shows. It, it, it feels very much like a, like a small little, not only community, but little world. And I think that, that it's. I, I, I witness and experience what you're describing as well with the, with the people who come out and, and listen to, to the records. And so I appreciate you saying that. Stuart: Did you get your start in, in la Eric: I grew up in Los Angeles, uh, but I started the band when I moved to New York City. I moved to New York City in 2000 and sort of started doing. The, the first shows and put out the first say hi record in [00:09:00] 2002. Uh, and then I moved to Seattle in at the end of oh six. Stuart: So we're talking really about, I think two very distinct music scenes. Um, I wanna back up to, to Brooklyn a little bit 'cause I'm kind of thinking about that time period in my head. Uh, it's been written and talked about a lot lately. Uh, that, yeah. New York music, that New York City music scene in the, in the early two thousands. Uh, what was your impression of the scene back in that time? Eric: I mean, it was wild. You know, I, I'm, I feel very fortunate to have lived in New York City in my early twenties during, during that time. Um, and it was, you know, w. I lived in, in the East Village for a couple years when I first moved to New York, and then I, I moved to, um, to Brooklyn, to to Williamsburg Brooklyn, which. Is a, it's a, it's a funny thing to say [00:10:00] now because you, you go there and it's, it's, it's become its own, its own little thing. But we used to, we used to joke at the time that, at that time in, in Williamsburg, you couldn't leave the house without seeing a member of TV on the radio or Interpol on the street and. It's, it's, it's true. There was a lot of wonderful music going on then, and even, even when I was still in the East Village, you know, that's when stuff like the Strokes was, was going on. And I feel fortunate it was a fun time to live there. And I went, I still had the energy to go to lots of rock shows at that point in my life. And I went to a lot of shows and it was, it was very cool. Stuart: Well, I think of like that book Meet Me In the Bathroom and you know, the, the band you just mentioned and I'm also thinking like LCD Sound System. Yeah, yeah. Yes. The National Clap Your Hand Say Yeah. You know, everything happening. And New York City at that time was all very different from one [00:11:00] another. Were you influenced by, I guess, the, the eclectic nature of that, you know, all the different creativity that was happening in, in that very small vicinity in that time period? Eric: Yeah. A big part of the charm of New York City is that it's a very difficult city to live in and you really have to give up some. Some life comforts to, to hack it there. And what that means is that you have some very, very motivated, intelligent, and go-getter people living there. And when you are surrounded by that all of the time, it, it makes you want to put in more effort. And so it was, you know, I, I, I don't know that I was like going to see some of those bands and then coming home and being like, oh, I need to. Make a record that just sounds like that, but just the creative energy was, was certainly, [00:12:00] uh, buzzing around in, on the streets and, and in, in the air there. And it was, it, it, it made me work hard every day to, to contribute creatively by myself. Stuart: So disco sadness, that was oh two, right? That was your first album? Eric: Yeah, made, made it sort of, probably started working on it in 2000 and, and then probably finished it in, in oh one and then it, I thought of, I tried to research and think of every indie rock label that I could think of, and I, I sent it to them and most of them didn't respond, and a couple responded and said, no, and, and then it took me a little while to realize what it would be like to put out. That record by myself, and that was a very. Positive thing. 'cause it ended up influencing my approach to things. Stuart: And that, that was, so you created a journal, [00:13:00] love, uh, label there, EU phobia records. Um, I feel like there, there's kind of a, again, kind of going back like historically there, there is a long tradition of like indie and underground bands. Who kind of went through what you experienced. They, they're, they're reaching out their record labels, can't find the right match, so they just start their own record label. Uh, were were you ever, like, were you researching or talking to any other musicians who had done that before? Eric: Not so much, no. And, and it, it, I, I don't know. It, it, it never really occurred to me before. That time that that was something you could do. Um, and I think it has a lot to do with the music that I witnessed and, and that I grew up with and the prevalence of something like MTV when I was a kid and I'm, I'm pretty old you guys to tell all of your listeners out there. Um, I'm, I'm, I'll be 50 next year, so. Music consumption and availability was a very, [00:14:00] very different thing back then. And it just, in my mind, it really was either you get signed to a big record label and you, um, become very successful, or you don't, and you just fizzle out in obscurity. And I, it, it never really occurred to me that there, there is, there are various middle grounds, um. So, uh, I didn't, I didn't know a lot of people who, who did that stuff. And, um, it was, I tried to, to go to a lot of websites of bands that I liked at, at the time, and I would see that they all would link to like independent radio promoters and independent publicists, and they would list who distributed. Uh, the records on the label they were signed to, and I just took all that in and, and [00:15:00] started like contacting those people and, uh, to be like, Hey. Would you work something that isn't really on a label? And at some point it just clicked in my head and I was like, oh yeah, you don't really need a label to do this. You just gotta scrounge up enough funds to. To press up the CDs. Stuart: But how'd you do that? Because this is, you know, now, now there's, you know, there's all kinds of like, you know, Kickstarter campaigns a little bit easier to crowdsource now than it would've been, you know, 25, 23 years ago. So I'm curious how, how you did that, because there's still, I guess the, um, the challenge of distribution, right? I mean, 'cause a lot of these, even, even indie labels have to work with distributors. Eric: Yeah, I mean, at the, at the time there were small distributors that would just take, and we're, we were talking CDs at the time, that that was the, the main way that people were consuming music. It was [00:16:00] streaming did not exist. Uh, and vinyl was not back, um, the way that it is now. And so I just cold emailed a couple small distributors. Sent them the CD and they would just take a box of 30 on consignment, you know, and then eventually they would either send me a, a small check for my cut, or they would go outta business and I would lose the CDs and, and any, any check that would've been coming. But it was much easier back then, and you could still, I think that the first pressing that I did was just. Uh, a thousand, a thousand CDs of the Disco sadness, um, album. And it was, it was an affordable thing to do. It's much more affordable than, than vinyl is. Even, even these days. Stuart: Like I mentioned in the beginning, [00:17:00] Eric is essentially a solo artist playing under the stage name. Say Hi, but when he first started out, he used the name, say Hi to your mom. Now that sounds provocative, but I don't think it's meant to be. The way a friend described it to me years ago when I first heard them was that it's supposed to give off this kind of small town feeling. Like when you run into someone you've known for a long time and they say something like, say hi to your mom. I grew up in a small town, so I get it. So it could be accurate, or that could just be my friend's take. Either way. I did not ask Eric about why he dropped the mom bid. It seems to be something he gets asked way too often, and on his website, he responds to that hypothetical question with his own questions. Why did you buy those pants you're wearing right now? Why do you like action films and not romantic comedies? Does spicy food tastes good to you? So there's that. Eric is the only person in say hi. He writes all the songs, plays all the instruments, and then he makes a lot of [00:18:00] overdubs on the records given the illusion of multiple people singing. He records in his home studio, which he describes usually as being a laptop on a small desk and then releases most of the music on his own label. E Phobia Records though he did release a few albums through Bar Suck and toured in support of bands like Def Cab for Cutie. Eric: There have been some friends of mine who, uh, who toured with me for a while who have, who played on a couple of the records, but for the most part it's, it's been me at home and, and it has certainly been that way for, for many, many years Now. Stuart: You mentioned Seattle. Uh, yeah. When did you make it, when did you make it out that way? Eric: The end of oh six. So it's, it's closing in on 20 years now. Stuart: Yeah, that's its own kind of legacy. Is indie rock, alternative rock in Seattle. Were, were you drawn to that [00:19:00] for a specific reason? Eric: You know, once I started touring and seeing parts of the country that I'd never been, it was always, uh, a breath of fresh air in this part of the world. Both, both, uh, physically and metaphorically. And I liked the people here. Um, and the air actually did, does smell better than, um, both Los Angeles and New York City, where, uh, I had, I had lived and I thought that I would just. Give it a try because it, it was, it was a, something new and, um, something exciting. There were some really great bands and labels out here. Um, and it was, it was fun. It was fun to be, to be, uh, part of the music community when I, when I moved out here as well. Um, and, and there is, there is. Seattle record label, uh, called Baruch that ended up signing say hi, and putting out a number of the [00:20:00] records, um, for a number of years, and now I'm back to putting them out myself. But it was fun. It was, it was great to be a part of that. Stuart: What, what kind of support were they providing that, you know, you didn't have before being on a label? Eric: They would just do some of the things that. That I had attempted to do myself, they would do it better because they had a lot of experience, a lot more experience doing that stuff. And it really, the timing of, of being, getting signed to Baruch and being in Seattle and being in an indie rock. Band really worked out well because it was right around the time that music and TV started using a lot of that style of music everywhere. And not only did they, they start using a lot of that music, but they for some reason [00:21:00] decided that they could spend a lot of money on that stuff. And so, uh, it was, it was good because up till that point, I had put out five records. Uh, myself and I had some credit card debt and, you know, because of the timing of that stuff, I was able to pay off some of that debt. And it was, it was very exciting and it was just exciting to like, hear. To turn on the TV and see a television commercial or, uh, a television show and hear my songs going on in the background. Um, Stuart: yeah, like shame, like Shameless, for instance, was one of the Yeah. Was one of the bigger ones. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and this is, I mean, this, this really was, I guess, kind of a moment for Indie rock. I, I remember it well, I remember being in radio at the time, and it seemed like every time we turned around somebody was touring. Uh, you know, my, my radio station was, you know, we were able to bring national touring acts. And so the, the small town of Greensboro, North Carolina, which you, you're probably more familiar with the Chapel Hill area or Asheville [00:22:00] when you've toured through here. Um, Eric: yeah. Stuart: But even a small little place like Greensboro, North Carolina was, was able to hold its own just because, I mean, it was just everyone was touring, people were putting stuff out. Everyone was assigned to a label. It felt like, I mean, it was, it was really, uh, one of the coolest times I think in, in the history of indie music. Eric: It's good to hear you say that. 'cause I, I, I feel that way about that era, but I am, I'm a little bit biased. It, it was an exciting time and, you know, it was exciting to build something from scratch. And I remember when I started, started to do shows and there started to be people that I, that weren't just my friends, that I didn't know who would show up and, and then I just started a crude. Online mail order business. And, you know, PayPals would come through and people would order a t-shirt and a cd and from, you know, they were, they were all over the country and then all over the world. And, um, in the [00:23:00] overall scheme of things, I think that say hi has, is, is has been a small band and, and continues to be a small band, but I'm. I am excited about the tr trajectory of things and how it worked out, and I'm, I'm excited to have discovered the things about business that I discovered at the time because I don't think that it would be possible to build a band in that way in this day and age. And sometimes I get messages or, or emails from, from young bands who are like, tell me, tell me what to do to do. What you did. And I'm like, well, it's different. Back at the time it was just make a record. Go out on tour and tour as much as you can. And, and then if you're, if you're good enough, people will come out. If you're not good enough, then get better. And when you get better, they'll come out And it's touring is, is a lot harder these days. It's a lot more [00:24:00] expensive and I don't envy. Brand new bands these days because I, I don't think that it is very easy to get a foothold and become popular. Stuart: So take all the industry changes, Eric is talking about combine that with a global pandemic that musicians. Labels and venues are still recovering from, and artists like Eric have to get even more creative than they have already been. One thing they're doing is this newish trend of living room shows, which is exactly like it sounds, playing small, intimate shows in people's homes. I'm sure people have always played music in each other's living rooms, but they make this kind of official, Eric: they're the best. It really, it makes the business model a little bit better because of, you don't have to give a giant cut to a venue. And especially these [00:25:00] days, venues have started to insist on, on taking big cuts of the artists' merch sales. Um, and I think that has a lot to do with the fact that people, people in general, young people in general, are drinking less so. So venues are making less of the bar. And so they've, they've decided that they're gonna, I guess, tax the musicians. Um, and so you don't, that sucks. ' Stuart: cause I do remember, I do remember being involved with Booking, you know, a few shows and it was always our, our, our goal was always, or our model was always provide the band to guarantee. We don't touch any of that. And then the venue would make all their money on alcohol sales, or we provide both the band and the venue a, a guarantee, uh, and then try to get money back via donations. Uh, yeah. But we would never, never touch merch. Never take a percentage of anything at the door. Uh. Wow. That's, that's messy. That's messy when you start getting into that. Eric: It's, it's wild. [00:26:00] But just to clarify, like as finance friendly as doing the living room shows are, it's, it's, it's mostly just because of the, the setting that, that I, I really enjoy it because it's just, I, I've never in my life been comfortable with the idea of standing on stage above a bunch of people and like, I mean. Rock and roll shows are great. Don't get me wrong. I, I love going to rock and roll shows, but, but being in a room with 30 or 50 people without any amplification and just playing the acoustic guitar and just, just being in it and, and that en and environment really makes it conducive for people to not pull out their cell phones and, and witness the whole thing through cell phones like they do it. Rock venues. Um, it's a special thing and I, and I love doing it. And, um, I, I'm really glad that, [00:27:00] um, the, the folks that have helped me do those, um, they, they're a company called Undertow and they, they originally started doing, uh, living room. Shows like that for David Bison from, from the band Pedro The Lion, when he was in between record cycles and didn't, wasn't able to do a proper tour. And, and they sort of opened that model to a bunch of other bands. And I'm really, really happy that, um, they have let me into that fold and have booked a couple tours for me. And, you know, we ended up doing what I, what I. Dubbed Living Zoom shows during the pandemic, because we had to cancel one of those. And it was, that was so much fun in, in its own way that I ended up doing a bunch of those after the pandemic as well. And like I said, the people, the people that come out and the people, [00:28:00] um. That participate in that stuff are just so fantastic and I feel very, very fortunate, um, to, to do music in a way that I, I can hang out with and hang out with people like that. Stuart: Yeah, probably a much more intimate experience too. I mean, you're playing to maybe of fewer people, but then like you're, you're also like in someone's home. Like, I mean, that's, um, that's gotta be pretty neat. Eric: It is neat. It is neat. Um, some, some rooms are use easier than others, you know, it's like the acoustics, uh, can be a challenge, but also pretty darn amazing. And usually like, I'll, I'll. I'll walk in and when people submit their their places, I try to look for like hardwood floors and a lot of reflective surfaces because that sort of ends or that sort of brings some natural reverb. And when it's all carpet [00:29:00] and lots of not reflective surfaces, it's like I have to project even more because there's no amplification. Um, so I try to be. As smart as I can when people are submitting their places to choose venues where it's gonna sound good, but you know the people, it takes a certain, uh, type of person to invite. 50 strangers into their house, uh, for a quote unquote rock show. And, and those people are the best. And I'm so thankful for all the people who are willing to do that. And it, it, it ends up being such a fun experience, um, all around. Stuart: Yeah. Any, anything like very memorable happen at any of these shows? Eric: The one that always pops into my head was, the first time I did a tour like that, there was an Austin show and the family that was hosting the show were, were sitting on the couch [00:30:00] opposite from me with their young son. And all of a sudden, um, out of, out of the hands of the young son, uh, a giant frog. Leapt from his hands onto the floor and the little kid like stood up and, and started chasing the frog around the room. Uh, and it turns out he had just caught a frog right before the show started, and it had been holding it at his hands through the whole show. And that's just something that would never happen in, in a traditional venue. And I, it, it was a lot of fun. Stuart: Weird things happen in traditional venues, but not that. Eric: Yeah, Stuart: I guess your most recent album, elocution. Prattle now, this is an instrumental now album. And it's, it's great. It's really cool. I, I, I really, really enjoyed this one. And, but at the same time was also [00:31:00] surprised by, you know, going, going full instrumental, you know, largely because I think like anytime you read a review of one of your records or just the way I've always felt was like, you're, you're a very strong lyricist. I've always thought the lyrics were really clever. So what was the reason for going instrumental on, on this one? Eric: You know, so, so I, I, uh, I started making that record in 2020, right after I had to cancel a, a proper tour and do the Living Zoom shows. And like I said, the Living Zoom shows were, were wonderful and I'm, I'm really glad that that people ended up coming to those. Um, but there was, there was. A darkness, uh, to the world, which in retrospect is, it is funny because, well, I think that I don't have to explain that, but, um, [00:32:00] it, uh, I started making a record and I would go to like, write some words and they just kind of wouldn't come out. And I realized that it was like a kind of. Depression that I had not experienced before. And you know, I, who knows if that was just some kind of chemical imbalance or if it was just a reflection of what was going on in the world, but I just couldn't write words. And so I, I just kept tweaking with if what at first was gonna be the music beds to add words to, to make. You know, proper say hi songs. And I, I was just like, you know, let me just see what happens if I actually try to turn this into a, a full on instrumental record. And once I made that decision, it, it ended up [00:33:00] being a lot of fun. Um, and it, it, it turned from. The normal 10 or so songs to 20 songs, and it ended up being a double record. Um, and it was, it was, it was a lot of fun. I think that too resonated with some people and didn't, didn't resonate with other people. And I think that that's just the, the plight of the, when you're making. Art of, of any kind. Um, but I, I stand by it and it's, it's one of my favorite records I've ever made and it's, I I'm, I'm happy that I saw it through. Stuart: Well, how are you telling stories through, you know, instrumentation when a lot of times, you know, your lyrics? I think, I think well very clearly, I think tell a story. I mean, 'cause you, you've always, I think you've always toyed around with, you know, characters. You know, that you, that you named specifically and, and a lot of your music [00:34:00] and poor Pete, Halle, and Henry, that kind of thing. You mentioned it earlier there, there was a certain depression, a, a darkness I think that we all experienced in, in 2020, and kind of this existential dread, I think that continues up to this very moment, if I can project a little bit. But, uh, um, do, does that, does that, do you feel like that comes out in the instrumentation or like, how are you, how are you telling stories or are you leaving things open to interpretation? Eric: Yeah, I always like to leave things to interpretation, but I think that I spent a lot of time trying to perfect the, the titles of each song as sort of a starting point, a starting guide for what the, the instrumental music where the instrumental music might take you. Um, and you know, it's just. Major keys, minor keys, um, melodies, sound, texture, [00:35:00] reverbs, um, production. You know, these are all things that that can create. E emotion or a vibe. Um, and there, there are certain songs on there, certain parts of certain songs where I'm like, oh yeah, I have this very specific thing in mind and this is what I, this is a sound representation of that thing I had in mind. And there were other, there are other parts of the record where I'm just like, I don't, I still don't really know what emotion. This exactly is, but I enjoy it and this is where it ended up. And hopefully, uh, it, it, it resonates with, with other people and whatever emotion or whatever story they wanna attach to that, uh, is fine by me. Stuart: Well, I guess ostensibly, this is an outer space theme podcast, so I want to ask you about, uh, the track instructional astrology. Eric: Yeah. Stuart: Uh, that's a, that's a really good one. Kind of towards the [00:36:00] end. It's, it's track number 17 on, uh, that album. Um, yeah. What can you tell me about that? Eric: I mean. Like you said, space is cool. Space is off kilter. It's funny that you reached out at the time that you did because I just finished reading that, that book, orbital by Samantha Harvey. Have you read that or heard about that? Stuart: I, I have heard about it. That was, she did not appear on the show. We did, I did reach out to her publicist and I can't remember if, if I heard back from them or not, but it was, it was a, it, it was, it was on our radar. Yeah. Eric: Yeah. So that's, that's kind of the coolest representation of space that I've read about or listened to or, or seen, or, I mean, well, I don't know. I'm, I'm sure, I'm sure I've seen some coolest space movies that probably resonated with me just as much. But, but [00:37:00] anyway. Um. It's great, and it, it just, it represents space from some astronaut's perspective. And, um, it reminded me of a head space that I, that I get to sometimes when I'm making music, where I'm focusing on the minutiae of. Being alive on earth or being in one's own head. And then you think about the vastness of space and all, all of that stuff seems really, really insignificant or small. And that's, I think one of the things that I was trying to do with that song that, that you we've been talking about is the constellations, the Astra, the astrology of. Based on constellations, uh, thinking about space, looking, staring at space. I've never stared at the earth from space like they do in that book, [00:38:00] and I don't think I ever will because I get very, a, I get motion sickness very easily, and b, I don't see myself ever being to, ever being able to afford one of those trips to space. But the grandness of it is exciting to me and, and. I need just even in, in everyday life, I need to remind myself sometimes to look up and stare into the sky and not be so concerned with what's going on in my head and what's going on down here on Earth, because it's big and it's vast and it's, it's majestic up there. Stuart: Final track on that album's Constellation afterlife. That's, that's got aer I mean, it, it's a cool song. First of it's a cool track. Uh, first of all, I'd encourage anyone to, to listen to it, buy the album, all that stuff. But, um, seems like a pretty [00:39:00] good, pretty good track to end the, the double LP on. Eric: Thanks. Yeah. And, um. It's, it's hard. It's when, when I'm in it and I'm making a record and I'm trying to, um, figure out the pacing and the sequence of things, it's hard. It takes, it takes a lot of time. And I devoted a lot of time on that record to figuring out that the sequencing and it's, you know, it's, it's not only like just picking, well, a, you gotta worry about. The, the what fits on a side of vinyl because there, there's a time limit to that before the sound starts to degrade. So you have to like, worry about that, but also just the pacing of making, creating a journey for, for people. Um, and it took me a long time to, to realize that that was the right. [00:40:00] Final song of that record. But I'm glad, I'm glad that, that I did because it, it seems appropriate. Stuart: And that probably wasn't a decision you had to make, you know, 20 odd years ago when you were just pressing these for, for CDs. Like, 'cause like you said, vinyl wasn't really back at that time. Is that, is that, so, is that, is that a newer because challenge, I guess now that there's this kind of vinyl craze? Eric: Yeah, so the first time I pressed the CD was, or pressed the vinyl was on the. The fifth record, uh, the wishes and the glitch, and that's when I realized I had to stop or to start worrying about that stuff. And then I've since pressed all the older records. Um, but yeah, every time, every time you make a record, you gotta keep that in mind when you're doing the sequencing. And I, I've even. On a couple of the records have just like thrown out an extra song just because it would've meant having to, to press a double lp. And, and I, I [00:41:00] didn't want it to be a double lp, both from a financial standpoint and from a artistic standpoint. Stuart: Do you have like a big backlog of stuff that you've, I guess, written or recorded that hasn't been published? Eric: Yeah. It always, all, all the records always start out with like a. Hun hundreds of songs. Um, and then I slowly pair them down and start abandoning songs when I realize that they're either not that good or they're too close to other songs that I've put out or too close to a song that I really like that's gonna be on that record. Um, and. Occasionally I will go back and visit when I'm making the next record to see if there's anything in there, um, that is good enough to keep. Um, but that doesn't actually end up happening very often. Usually when it's time to make a [00:42:00] new record. I, I, I like to start from scratch and, and see what bubbles up from the cauldron. Stuart: You did mention that touring's not. What it used to be. I mean, and, and I think, I think, you know, the, the criticisms of of platforms like Spotify and Amazon music are, you know, I think, I think most people would be pretty familiar with them and it is a convenient way to, to listen to music. But what are, what are ways that, like people who wanna support independent artists, like what are things they can do to help, you know, guys like you and some of your peers out. Eric: Yeah, I mean, this is always a, a hot topic, you know? 'cause I, I enjoy streaming music. I, you know, I have an Apple Music [00:43:00] subscription. I love it. 'cause I, it helps me like go down rabbit holes and find music that I wouldn't hear otherwise. But, but yeah, you're, you're right. You know, the best way if you want a band to keep making music is to just. Buy their merch, you know, buy their records directly from them if you can. It's, I, I'll plug, I'll plug the website, say hi to your mom.com. I have all the records for sale there, and some t-shirts and some hats and stuff like that. And I ship it all out myself. And that's, that's the best way to do it. And go to shows, you know, like if you ever. If you're like me and you're, you're old and tired and you're like, ah, I don't think that I could go out to a rock show, you know, it's possible that that band might not come back to your city ever again because everybody in the city decided they were too tired to come to the Rock show. So buy, buy tickets to the shows. And go, go see those bands. [00:44:00] And you know, as a bonus, if, if there are bands doing these living room shows like I like to do when I do those, it's, it's doors at seven show promptly at eight. So you'll, you'll be back in your car by nine 30. And I love that 'cause I get to. Go to bed early. Um, and it's not like playing in venues where Yeah, I was gonna interject for the three local bands and Stuart: yeah, I was gonna interject if, if anyone thinks that that hour difference is, is significant, I'd, I'd invite you to go to a, to a venue sometime for a seven o'clock show that the headliner doesn't come on until 10 30 if you're lucky. Eric: It's the worst. It's the worst. I remember people, people always, when I used to play rock venues, people always used to think that it was my choice to go on that late, and it, it was not. Um, and it, it, Stuart: I Eric: feel like it's, gimme, Stuart: gimme the peek behind that curtain a little bit because, [00:45:00] you know, I know sometimes who's who, who's making that call? Well, Eric: so you know, I. You don't always wanna hear how the sausage is made, so I don't wanna ruin it for everybody. But rock venues, they're, they're there to, to sell beer, you know, to sell drinks. And so they want to open the doors early and they want you to spend as much money at the bar as possible. So when you are a smallish band. Especially if you were touring a lot at the time that I was touring, you know? They would, they would contractually have you going on at 11. So it would be like doors at eight, a local band at nine, another local band at 10. Or if I had someone out to support that, that band would be on. At 10, [00:46:00] um, and then say hi on, on at 11, and then, you know, everybody's gotta get up for work and school the next day. And how, how do you do that? How do you stay awake that long? I, I, I don't know. And you know, we would, at the very, very beginning, we would be asking for floors to crash on at people's houses and, and, you know, people would. Generously offer their place. And, and I would have to be like, so look, just to, just to make clear, like we just, we want a place to crash because we have to drive eight hours tomorrow, and it's like gonna be 2:00 AM by the time that, that we get to your place. So if you want to be socializing with your friends and us, then let's, let's. Let's politely decline. And they would be like, no, no, no, you're welcome. Just come over. [00:47:00] You can crash. And most of the time, you know, by the time you got there, they will have invited all of their friends and it would turn into a big party and we would be like trying to get into our sleeping bags to crash in the corner while people were partying like around us and accidentally kicking us in our sleeping bags. And that that was not fun. And so fortunately it eventually it reached a place where. You know, we could start affording one hotel room and then eventually it, it got to the point where, you know, there would be multiple hotel rooms. Um, and then it, it sort of regressed to the point where a. Enough people either weren't coming out or the cost of gas in hotel rooms was just too much. And so then I started touring with less people and it turned back into one hotel room and um, blah, blah blah. But yeah, that's how the sausage is made. [00:48:00] You, you think that a lot of venues have the music fans, uh. Best interests at heart, but really they, they want you to come and spend as much money on booze as you can. And so Stuart: there you go. Yeah. Well, I kind of alluded to it there. If you're given the band a guarantee, then that, that, that alcohol is your, is your lifeline. To, to turn, to turn a profit. Yeah. Um, any, uh, any cool projects coming up? I mean, I know you don't just do say hi. I know you've, you've toured with some other bands. You've scored, uh, at least one film. Any, anything, anything in the hopper? Eric: I've been, uh, working on a very, very stubborn say hi record for, for quite a while now. And I, I've, I've declined everything else in life. Um. Until I finish this record. So that's, that's sort of my focus. Fortunately, or unfortunately, there's life commitments end up [00:49:00] interrupting my day of working on music. And for, for example, the past few weeks I've. Have tried to teach myself how to re grout a shower, and that has not been the most exciting thing to do in the world, and that has kept me from working on this stubborn record. But I'm excited about this record whenever I manage to, to finish it, I think that I'm gonna be very happy to put it out into the world, and I hope that people will enjoy it as much as I've quote unquote, enjoyed working on it. 'cause like I said, it's been a stubborn one. Stuart: I don't like to tell too many personal stories through my work, but since we're already kind of mixing it up here, I figured I'd break my own rule for this episode. I was a college freshman in 2008 and it was hanging out at a friend's house one night when we decided to attend an interest meeting for our campus radio station. We [00:50:00] got there and it was a pretty laid back group of people. Pretty open to letting anyone join their ranks, but they still made us fill out an application, which was all of three or four questions. One of them was, who are your favorite bands? I wrote down four bands. Not gonna name the first three, but the fourth one. Say hi to your mom. I ended up getting a slot, and from there, radio and audio has been the only thing I've ever done professionally. During my time in college radio, I met my wife, learned about music. I never would have otherwise developed a lot of the skills I still use today and met some pretty off kilter people. The kind of people Eric would like. That's a wrap for now, but stay tuned to the feed. We'll have one more epilogue sort of episode coming along next month along with some bonus stuff. Crew Collective is [00:51:00] presented by Rocket Genius. Our executive producers are Matt Madeiros and Travis Tots. This episode was written, edited, and produced by me. I'm Stuart Barefoot. More episodes can be found@crewcollectivepodcast.com or. Anywhere else you listen to podcasts.