Latest / Adventures in Adversity: an inspirational podcast / Ep. 61: From 7th grade dreamer to music industry producer — my reunion with Julian

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Ep. 61: From 7th grade dreamer to music industry producer — my reunion with Julian · Adventures in Adversity: an inspirational podcast

• 0:00
  Hello, Happy Friday, we are back Adventures and adversity, an
• 0:06
  inspirational podcast hosted by me.
• 0:10
  But more importantly, I want to welcome my 41st guest and this
• 0:19
  will be my 61st episode. Julian, thank you so much for
• 0:25
  joining. I don't know if I have enough
• 0:29
  time to walk down memory lane with you, but if this is your
• 0:33
  first time listening to the podcast, Adventures in Adversity
• 0:37
  is a inspirational podcast that really features real people.
• 0:42
  We got one true stories and daily inspiration.
• 0:47
  My goal is to provide a platform where we're just talking real
• 0:50
  talk about how to get through hard stuff in life.
• 0:54
  And guys, this is Julian. I've been talking for 9000
• 0:58
  seconds already. I just want to welcome Julian
• 1:01
  to, I mean Julian, also known as Julio Iglesias.
• 1:08
  Yep #1. Of course, we will get to that
• 1:11
  story why in a second. So where do we even start with
• 1:18
  this? I mean, how do we how?
• 1:19
  Do we? We could start with, I mean
• 1:22
  where we met, which is crazy. All right.
• 1:25
  Where did we meet Julian? And thank you for being a guest,
• 1:28
  because I haven't had a guest quite like you.
• 1:32
  Yeah, I mean, you do have several you could do like.
• 1:37
  I mean, I have never had a former student.
• 1:40
  Yeah, on the podcast. OK, so well, I want to ask you a
• 1:46
  question then. How did you end up where you
• 1:48
  were? My teacher.
• 1:51
  That is, you're like, how the hell did someone let that
• 1:53
  happen? No, so let's see, this was 2005.
• 1:59
  I met you. So that was literally 20 years
• 2:00
  ago, Fall 2025 or 20. No, fall 2005.
• 2:06
  And it is now Fall 2025. Frightening.
• 2:11
  So you are, are you 31? 32. 32 So I knew you when you
• 2:17
  were 13/12/12. Can't do.
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  Math You were twelve I was 25 because I'm I'm going to be 44
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  and you're. So I'm older than you when you
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  met me. Yes, I met you when you were 12
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  and I was. I was just a 25 year old
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  figuring out life. So.
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  So how did I become your teacher?
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  I want to give a shout out to my bestie, Miss.
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  Let's see, at that time, she was Miss Richter.
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  Yeah. I was going to say yeah.
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  Miss Richter, Brianna. She is on another episode.
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  I should know the number of it, but it's called Shoot in the
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  Breeze with my bestie Brianna and it's like humorous takes on
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  life. So Brianna.
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  I met her in Spain when I was a teacher right after college.
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  Graduated O 4 English major, didn't know what I wanted to do.
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  Ended up being a teacher intern at an American school in Spain.
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  Wait, wait, didn't you? Weren't you a softball player or
• 3:14
  something? In college.
• 3:16
  Yeah, OK. But this podcast is not about
• 3:18
  me. So I'm going to wrap this up
• 3:19
  real pink. Hey, stop turning the tables.
• 3:23
  Look at teacher mode. You're like, sorry, sorry,
• 3:24
  sorry, sorry. You stick to the plan.
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  I'm kidding. There is no plan to to sum it
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  up, Long story short, I met Brianna.
• 3:33
  She became my bestie, came back home to Irvine was like, don't
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  know what I want to do with my life.
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  Just graduated college. Brianna visited her in Arizona.
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  She's like, hey, we need a teacher.
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  She was at Mission Charter School 2005.
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  I had been a tutor. I had done a like a middle
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  school intervention program for a couple months to help a group
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  of kids. And then I had just minimal
• 4:00
  experience, but I had had a lot of no formal credential, but I
• 4:03
  had, you know, that kid experience and then tutoring.
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  So, and remember Miss Carpenter and and Jane, I did an
• 4:11
  interview, I got the job and then I was a late addition that
• 4:15
  fall. Like I didn't start with you.
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  Guys, yeah, you started, I think you started like halfway through
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  or something. Yeah, I was.
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  And then I was the the science teacher.
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  You were in 7th grade, right? Yep.
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  Then one day I was talking to Mashawn.
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  She's like, hey Cooley, you know what I'm talking.
• 4:35
  About. I do, yeah.
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  She's I love her. Cooley, what do you think about
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  teaching math? I'm sorry.
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  What? I think a teacher had left and I
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  was like, I mean, sure. So she's like, cool, you start
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  Monday. Damn.
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  You went from science to math like.
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  Science and math and then remember we had a mix of like
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  6th, 7th, and 8th. But I will tell you, we had some
• 5:03
  fun. We did have some fun.
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  We did have some fun. But I didn't.
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  I, I stayed one day ahead. I had a Lesson plan book and I
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  looked at the Arizona State standards and I was like, all
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  right, I got to hit all these concepts.
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  How we're going to make it fun. Hopefully I can do this.
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  Yeah. So then, so I'm going to stop
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  talking now. We've set the stage.
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  I was your 7th grade math and science teacher 20 years ago in
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  Phoenix, AZ Shout out to all the Mission charter school listeners
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  out there. Any do you?
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  Want to give some love, Julian, to anyone in particular?
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  No. What?
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  No. No, no, say.
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  OK, say OK. No, no, I'll shout out.
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  I'll shout out. Miss Shaw.
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  Of course. Mr. Hannah, Elena, Every.
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  I mean, we were a very tight knit school, Yes.
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  Like, I mean, there was like, what, like 30 kids?
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  It was insanely small. It was, let's see, that class
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  maybe like the whole was the whole school, a couple 100 kids.
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  I don't think it was 100. But like the little the little
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  kids. Oh, I forgot about the little
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  kids. OK, yeah, I I was thinking
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  about. Those little things walking
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  around everywhere. Yeah, I was.
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  I forgot like middle school because like the we had the
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  detached like thing that was separate from that side.
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  Middle school must have been like 40-50.
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  Yeah, it was super small. So like everybody that ever like
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  we were just so close. It's, it's weird too, because
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  like I talked to people that went to other middle schools and
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  they have no idea. Like why I'm so close with
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  everybody. Like it's weird.
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  You're right, I have never seen a middle school like that.
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  No, remember, they had the White House.
• 6:45
  The White House? Yeah.
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  That you don't want to go there. That place freaked me out.
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  It was all go. To the white.
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  House. Yeah, Go to the White House.
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  Now the IT was like this house the and then I taught in the two
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  there was 2 portables. Yep, and then I was in one
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  Brianna and Miss Richter, who's now Missus Ciro shooting the
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  breeze. She was up in the other.
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  She was a second grade teacher up in the other building.
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  Yep, because there was like a separate detached building that
• 7:12
  was already there. And then we had the lunch tables
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  and the cover and then the two and then the White House.
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  And the White House in the middle.
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  And it's still. There with the kitchen.
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  Oh, it's still there. Yeah.
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  But I think it's it might be like blue now, like dark blue.
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  Oh well, I'm going to give a shout out to remember Miss
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  Pogies. That's, I mean the name sounds
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  familiar. But sorry, we can edit that out.
• 7:38
  Right cut. Why?
• 7:41
  Just cut the part that makes you look like.
• 7:43
  Yeah, that. I don't remember anybody.
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  I was 12. It's different.
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  You're right, I was 25, but now I'm old so I'm not supposed to
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  remember stuff. You're supposed to remember
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  stuff. True.
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  Miss Carpenter and and Lex, they visited me in San Francisco
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  2006. After then, yeah, I was just
• 8:04
  like a boot camp of all the emotions.
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  But like, we laughed a lot. We had a lot of fun.
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  I saw, I saw them not well, OK, well, it's been a long time now,
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  but I saw them with Kylie. We we all hung out.
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  Kylie, I remember Kylie, Britney and Brianna.
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  Yep, I think I, I think Brittany added me not too long ago.
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  Brittany Yep. Gosh, clear as day.
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  So I sent you those pictures. Yeah, we're going to make sure
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  they flash up on the screen because there you.
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  Go right there, right now. Can you flash the one of He's
• 8:40
  going to produce this for me? Maybe.
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  Yep, Yep, Yep, right there. We're going to get to we're
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  going to get to like the cool about we're we're taking memory
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  lane and then we're going to talk about what a badass Julian
• 8:49
  is just saying. So right now, you'll see the
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  picture of us on Flashback Friday.
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  Oh man, that was not my. Idea by the way.
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  It wasn't. It was just like a school
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  holiday, wasn't it? And then my idea was to
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  participate. Yeah, Yeah.
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  Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK.
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  Yeah. So I didn't like be like, hey
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  guys, dressed like, you know, 80s and.
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  You dressed pretty 80s. I did, yeah.
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  Can we also show the picture of Julian on the table?
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  Oh yeah, I don't. Why did you let me do that?
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  Because I think we had got all our stuff done.
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  You'd probably you had your organ, maybe you had your
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  organized binder. Was that the end of the year?
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  I think it was maybe 1 of the last days and we had put on
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  music and maybe you had done a rap about something science
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  related and you and you and Mick and would like you would do the
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  head. You would do like the head
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  metal. We were like head banging.
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  Nick was looking inside of the ceiling.
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  That probably was a safety violation on my part as the
• 9:54
  adult in the room. No, he, he was just checking for
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  something in the ceiling, right? A lot of students do that.
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  So I don't know what you're talking about, but what are you
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  trying to do right now? July.
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  School was so unorthodox though, so I mean that's, that's what it
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  comes down to. Yeah, but you know what I think
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  now, being such a like mental health advocate, like keeping it
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  real advocate, that was so fucking awesome for such a hard
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  time in someone's life. 12/13/14 You're like, the hell, who am I?
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  You actually, you were very tell me how how was middle school for
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  you? Because from a teacher's point
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  of view, you were always respectful.
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  You were really funny. But you knew the line when I'd
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  be like, OK, OK, enough, quiet down.
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  You would never be like. Yeah, there were.
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  I mean, there were kids that did that though.
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  Some I'd be like office, now White House.
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  What was middle school like for you?
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  It's weird because like when I think of, like I said, I'll talk
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  to people who went to other middle schools and I hear what
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  they experienced versus what I experienced.
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  And mine's like way different and like, it was very family
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  oriented. Like I, I, I don't know, it's
• 11:08
  kind of weird too, because like, I remember I would go to the
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  office and I would go see, you know, the principals or whoever,
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  like Miss Shaw and like Mr. Hannah, Miss Portillo, like
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  everybody like that. But like, I would be cool with
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  them. And so I think that that like
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  dynamic plays into like how I am now with like even like not
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  jobs, but like whatever client I have or whatever, I'm like super
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  personal with them because it just went, went a farther way
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  than a lot of people I know that went to other schools where
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  they're just like, Oh yeah, my principal was mean.
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  And like, I hate school, but I'm like, I didn't hate middle
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  school. I didn't have a bad time.
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  If if any of the kids did have a bad time back then, I'm always
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  thinking I'm like, they were, they were making it bad.
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  Like it was so close. You couldn't really have a bad
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  time. I'm so glad that that was your
• 12:02
  experience because it was a very open, like a little little group
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  where everybody like you could get that attention.
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  Or I remember like you could feel if somebody was off or
• 12:16
  like, so and so it's having a bad day, whereas it's easy now.
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  You kind of get lost in the shuffle of like hundreds and
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  hundreds of kids. Right.
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  Yeah, I think that's probably what the difference is, is like,
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  you guys knew, you guys knew everybody.
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  I feel like maybe in other middle schools there's so many
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  kids that they're just like, Oh yeah, there's this one kid.
• 12:32
  And it's like, OK, no, but we like, I don't think if I looked
• 12:37
  at pictures of everybody, I'm pretty sure I could.
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  Yeah, I would remember everybody.
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  Totally. Yeah, totally.
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  I can for some reason. I mean, I have a pretty good
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  memory, I'm not going to lie. Sorry.
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  You know, you can brag about something, I'm sure.
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  I would love to keep that memory when I'm like old as shit, you
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  know? I'll be like, I remember
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  everything. By then you'll be uploaded to
• 13:00
  the Consciousness Network and. Hey, as long as I'm nice.
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  Exactly. Wherever my consciousness is
• 13:07
  downloaded, I just want to be a good person.
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  Exactly. I remember everything very
• 13:12
  vividly. I remember you were in 7th
• 13:16
  grade, so you but you were in all the ground.
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  I was what? You weren't graduating that
• 13:22
  year, but you were in all. I graduate.
• 13:25
  I for some, yeah, I've, I've always tried to figure this out
• 13:28
  and I feel like they just kind of pushed me through because I
• 13:30
  was special. But that year I I was done.
• 13:34
  So did you kind of skip 8th grade?
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  I don't know. Maybe I did because I know when
• 13:39
  I went to freshman year of high school, I was 13 turning 14.
• 13:44
  What was the fall of your freshman year?
• 13:46
  What year was that? 2008.
• 13:54
  Well, whatever it was, you were you kind of so the the did you
• 13:58
  wear a cabin? I don't know, I can't remember,
• 14:00
  but you were always in the mix of everything.
• 14:02
  So like when I was thinking back to that 8th grade trip, you
• 14:06
  didn't come on that trip. I.
• 14:07
  Didn't go on that trip, no. That we went on a trip to Big
• 14:11
  Bear, like in three cars. There were two other dads and
• 14:15
  me. I'm like, what is going on right
• 14:18
  now? I'm like, I have.
• 14:18
  I remember driving on the mountain being like Oh my God I
• 14:21
  have like 7 lives in my hands like I have to drive.
• 14:25
  That's so funny, I didn't even think about that.
• 14:27
  It was called Rim of the World Highway.
• 14:29
  Oh no. Literally.
• 14:30
  And I was like, my God, this is like the most important drive of
• 14:33
  my entire life. And everything was great.
• 14:36
  But yeah, I guess they trusted me and it was great.
• 14:40
  But now I think back, I'm like, gosh, I'm glad you you know how
• 14:44
  to you got them. Yeah, I don't think there was
• 14:46
  anything. There was nothing bad about that
• 14:48
  school that time. I'm trying to think, wait a
• 14:53
  second. No, no, no.
• 14:55
  When I grew up. OK, So we went.
• 14:58
  We had the little like off the like, detachable things.
• 15:04
  That's where we were at. OK, so then that means that my
• 15:06
  8th grade year was at the new building.
• 15:10
  After I was gone. Yeah, because that last year we
• 15:14
  went to a new building and that was it.
• 15:16
  Got it. Then I went to high school.
• 15:17
  And then did a lot of those kids go to the same high school?
• 15:22
  No. No, they got split up between
• 15:24
  like Washington, which is where I went north and Sunny Slope or
• 15:31
  something like that. Because I went to, I ended up
• 15:33
  going to school with Tori Brooke.
• 15:36
  You were dating Tori I. Was dating Tori in middle
• 15:39
  school? Yeah.
• 15:40
  You guys were so cute by the way.
• 15:42
  I remember thinking, because just from my point of view as a
• 15:47
  teacher, I was like, he's really nice to her, like.
• 15:50
  I don't even remember. You were wow, I really, really.
• 15:55
  You were really in love, huh? I know, right?
• 15:57
  No, I, I used to hang out with them so much that it's so hard
• 16:00
  to like, I would go to their house and like, hang like her.
• 16:04
  Sister. Yep, and even now like I still
• 16:07
  talk to them. I see them on Facebook.
• 16:10
  Yeah, like we're, we're like, I don't know that we're weird.
• 16:14
  Like, oh, and then when we went to when we went to college, they
• 16:19
  went to ASU and I would go stay at the dorms with them all the
• 16:23
  time. So that went on for like, ever.
• 16:26
  Yeah, I'm so cool to reminisce and we're going to have to bring
• 16:32
  Brianna here as like up the mall because she and I want to say
• 16:36
  I'm not just saying this for the podcast, like I'm not just
• 16:39
  trying to like blow smoke. I remember you being, I remember
• 16:43
  in particular Miss Carpenter being like Julian's so awesome.
• 16:46
  Like she you guys were tight. We were close, yeah.
• 16:48
  And you were just one of the I hope your parents please send
• 16:52
  them this clip. Not that they're like, we
• 16:55
  already know he's awesome. You were so respectful.
• 16:59
  You were hilarious. Oh my God, you and Mick, you
• 17:02
  would get me laughing when I'm like, please don't make me
• 17:05
  laugh. Yeah, please don't make me
• 17:06
  laugh. It was lesson man, but you knew
• 17:09
  the line of like, you'd never say anything that I'd have to
• 17:11
  like, write home about. Like guys, stop talking about
• 17:15
  heavy metal. Yeah, pretty much.
• 17:16
  You just yap too much. You're like damn it.
• 17:19
  Yep. And you had glasses and the
• 17:23
  curly put it on the screen, the side shot of you with the curly
• 17:27
  hair and glasses, that's all. Oh, Julian.
• 17:32
  So I used to call you Julio Iglesias.
• 17:34
  Yes, I don't know why. I don't know where that came
• 17:38
  from. And you were fine with it, I
• 17:40
  think. Sorry if you weren't.
• 17:42
  Nope, I didn't care. I thought it was hilarious.
• 17:44
  Well, this is a really good segue, actually.
• 17:47
  Speaking of famous musicians, yes, you, I remember you being
• 17:53
  die hard music, talking about how much you loved music.
• 17:57
  A lot of air guitar, a lot of just like, yeah, love music man.
• 18:07
  Turns out you were serious. Tell me about your path.
• 18:13
  From where did your path head after 7th grade and how did it
• 18:17
  follow into music? So I went to high school.
• 18:21
  High school was normal. Everyone.
• 18:23
  Well, OK, so it was different because it wasn't like Mission
• 18:26
  where there was like a small group of people.
• 18:28
  That's, that's like #1 but I was definitely because I had longer
• 18:35
  hair then at that point, so my hair got even longer.
• 18:38
  And then I would wear like platform shoes.
• 18:43
  I wore like huge shoes and like would walk around like the crazy
• 18:46
  issues. My first day, I wore platform
• 18:49
  shoes with a Jean vest, with a Slayer patch, a KISS patch, and
• 18:55
  then like an Iron Maiden patch, sleeveless shirt, aviator
• 19:01
  glasses. And I took my guitar to school
• 19:05
  just to like, be obnoxious. And then I remember everybody
• 19:09
  was like, this guy's a fucking loser.
• 19:11
  Like with this, like with his hair and all this kind of shit.
• 19:14
  But it was funny. No, it was great because I was
• 19:16
  like, you guys just don't know what cool is.
• 19:19
  I was like you guys. Are just lemmings.
• 19:20
  I was like, you guys are so lame, like and so I ran with
• 19:24
  that for so long and then I end up cutting my hair off and went
• 19:29
  like at the time it was like this thing called scene.
• 19:32
  So like I had like I you don't even, I don't even think you
• 19:35
  know, but like I had super straight hair that like stuck
• 19:37
  up. Like we've always, we've been in
• 19:41
  touch. I didn't see that face.
• 19:42
  I'm sure you've seen all my faces on Facebook.
• 19:45
  You're like, what is Miss Cooley doing?
• 19:47
  My faces were crazy. So I went.
• 19:49
  I went through that. We all go.
• 19:52
  Through phases, right process of elimination.
• 19:55
  Yeah, I wish that that one stayed because that was cool.
• 19:58
  I was, I mean, you've, you've always been cool though.
• 20:00
  Yeah, OK, look at this. I'll put it up.
• 20:02
  I'm going to send it to you, but I'll put it on the screen.
• 20:05
  By the way, guys, he's our, he's the producer of this episode.
• 20:08
  That's why it's so good. They're like, they're like, who
• 20:11
  produced your other 59 shitty ones?
• 20:13
  I'm like, me, me. They're like, makes sense, makes
• 20:16
  sense. Look at, look at the photo.
• 20:17
  I think you can have a live reaction to that.
• 20:20
  Oh, this is fancy technology though.
• 20:22
  How? How do we do this?
• 20:23
  Are you on your phone? Oh.
• 20:25
  Oh, yes, let me go. Actually, yes, Send.
• 20:27
  Can you message it to me? My phone's in the other room,
• 20:31
  but I can go get it here. Look OK, Sure.
• 20:35
  It's a little blurry. Oh my God.
• 20:40
  Yeah. It's very like.
• 20:43
  Is it like dagger esque? Like it was crazy.
• 20:48
  I think maybe I. You like, maybe you would have
• 20:52
  thought, but you. Had the curl the curly Q long
• 20:55
  and then you went straight. So then I just straightened it
• 20:57
  basically and made myself look like Nicky Six or something,
• 21:00
  that's what. It is or like Criss Angel.
• 21:02
  Or like Criss Angel. Yeah, that whole thing.
• 21:04
  And so like I ran with that through high school from like
• 21:09
  the end of sophomore year until like end of junior year.
• 21:12
  And then I cut all my hair off. And then by that time I had been
• 21:17
  friends with like so many people.
• 21:18
  And then like Brooke and Tori and all them, they'd be, they
• 21:20
  were like, they were like the student government, like people,
• 21:25
  like hanging out those people. So I cut my hair and everybody
• 21:29
  like, I remember there was this one girl who like was the, she
• 21:33
  was like the top cheerleader girl.
• 21:35
  And in history class, I remember my junior, no, senior year, I
• 21:42
  sat in front of her and she talked to me and was like, when
• 21:46
  did you get to Washington? And I was like, I've been here
• 21:49
  this whole time. You're like but.
• 21:54
  You're like I was your lab partner for.
• 21:56
  Two years, I just cut my hair. And so I told her.
• 21:59
  And then I remember she was like freaking out that I was that
• 22:02
  person. And then, yeah, she became like
• 22:05
  a really good friend. And then we graduated and then
• 22:09
  in college, so yeah, the girls went to like ASUI would hang out
• 22:15
  with them all the time. The first year, I don't think I
• 22:18
  went straight. I think maybe halfway through I
• 22:20
  was like, OK, I'll start doing some shit.
• 22:21
  And so I ended up my my parents were like, oh, you could go to
• 22:26
  school for recording at the Community College.
• 22:28
  And I was like, what? Like, that's crazy.
• 22:30
  So, and I had already been recording, you know, at home.
• 22:34
  And so I ended up going to the like recording program and I was
• 22:41
  there for a year. And I remember the first year I
• 22:43
  was like, oh, this is horrible because it was all like very
• 22:48
  technical, like how to organize your files, like basically and
• 22:54
  like what a waveform is and like all this stuff.
• 22:57
  And I remember being like so annoyed.
• 22:58
  Well, my second year was like the year that you got to do like
• 23:03
  recording. So the first year was all
• 23:05
  talking. Second year was recording.
• 23:07
  I took the first like half of the year in the recording class
• 23:12
  and music business. And my, my professor goes, he
• 23:16
  hears one of my songs and he goes, why are you in this class?
• 23:19
  And I was like, what do you mean?
• 23:20
  And he was like, we already know what you're doing.
• 23:23
  And I was like, that's the strangest thing to come from
• 23:25
  somebody who's supposed to teach you and like, you know, keep you
• 23:29
  in class. And I said, well, I don't know.
• 23:32
  I thought I was going to learn some stuff that I wouldn't know.
• 23:34
  And he's like, you know, you know, he's like, you know,
• 23:35
  pretty much what you should know.
• 23:37
  And then he offered me a job at his studio.
• 23:42
  And so that was like my second year, like halfway through.
• 23:45
  And so then I just left. And then I worked for him at his
• 23:48
  studio and is. This like 2011, 2010 or when is
• 23:51
  this? This is like 2000.
• 23:53
  Yeah, probably 2011, 2000. 12 so you're like, how old are you
• 23:56
  you're. I'm not even like 21.
• 24:00
  Yeah, you're 18. 1919, yeah. You're 19, OK.
• 24:04
  And so I'll. Work for you dude.
• 24:06
  Yeah, and so he gave me the key to his studio B and.
• 24:10
  In Arizona. Yeah.
• 24:11
  And I just worked out of that studio and he was like, you're
• 24:13
  going to have to find your own clients.
• 24:15
  Like that's just how it works. And I was like, OK, I'll figure
• 24:17
  it out. I have no idea how I even got
• 24:20
  clients. Now, were you singing and doing
• 24:24
  music? Like what kind of music were you
• 24:26
  doing? I was just, I was producing
• 24:27
  music, so I was just like making music.
• 24:29
  Making and and now to a novice like me, I'm just a listener.
• 24:33
  Does that mean making like beats, melodies?
• 24:36
  What's the difference? Like, yeah, literally, yeah.
• 24:38
  So I would like make all the drum sounds.
• 24:40
  I would make all the like, I would play the chords, all that
• 24:42
  kind of stuff. Yeah.
• 24:44
  And so I was like, yeah, So like I was making all of the music.
• 24:48
  And then I was like, well, how do I find somebody who's going
• 24:52
  to buy the music? Basically like.
• 24:55
  Do they sing on top of it? Yeah.
• 24:57
  So like basically what happens is like they'll hire a producer
• 25:00
  to make the music and then they sing over the music with
• 25:04
  whatever they wrote. I didn't.
• 25:07
  Know that like this is really interesting to me.
• 25:09
  But I did not know how to find a how to find clients.
• 25:12
  Like that was the weirdest thing.
• 25:14
  And back then social media was it was like, not even this.
• 25:17
  It's not even remotely closed. Now they're a click away, right?
• 25:21
  Yeah, no, I don't even like. That's why I was saying I don't
• 25:23
  know how you don't remember it just.
• 25:26
  Kind of sounds like God just sent them your way.
• 25:29
  Apparently, yeah, they was just like boop because like they
• 25:31
  would just pop up boop. Yep.
• 25:34
  Apparently you're aligned with your purpose.
• 25:37
  Yeah. And so like that's The thing is
• 25:38
  like they started showing up, you know, I had clients that
• 25:42
  would. It was all over the place at
• 25:44
  first. There was a lot of rap, which
• 25:46
  there's a lot of rappers. So like that.
• 25:47
  Would you? Drop some names.
• 25:48
  Can I ask you to name drop anyone you can?
• 25:51
  And. I I know you're humble, but I
• 25:54
  want to hear it. In the beginning, there was no.
• 25:56
  Big teacher. In the beginning there was no
• 25:58
  big OK. So you were just tell me about
• 26:01
  like, what would it like, say I'm a client, I came in and I'm
• 26:03
  like, hey, I'm a beautiful singer.
• 26:07
  Did you get some beats for me like that?
• 26:09
  Literally yes. And so then I would be like, OK,
• 26:12
  so at the time it'd be 45 an hour, right?
• 26:16
  So. I can literally come to you and
• 26:19
  be like, hi Julian, I need a beat.
• 26:21
  But I had to split that with my mentor because I was paying the
• 26:26
  his thing. So that was his whole thing.
• 26:27
  He was like, you can, you can record all you want, like just,
• 26:30
  you know, give me whatever you. And so I did.
• 26:33
  Well, that got. So I got so busy that I remember
• 26:38
  one in one month, I paid his whole rent.
• 26:40
  And he was like, you have more clients than I do.
• 26:43
  Yeah. And he and he's worked with
• 26:45
  like, Bruce Springsteen and like.
• 26:47
  Yeah, like Ringo Starr. Holy shit, Julian, he saw
• 26:51
  something in you That's amazing. I'm not surprised, but that's
• 26:54
  fucking cool. Yeah.
• 26:55
  So but then halfway through that, I remember going I could
• 27:00
  charge whatever I want and just pay the rent so I could change
• 27:05
  whatever. Like, you know what I mean?
• 27:06
  Like as long as I was paying him, he didn't care what I was
• 27:10
  making. So I went from 45 to 60 an hour
• 27:16
  and people were paying me 60 an hour and I had one.
• 27:20
  Client, you're 19. Yeah, I was making and I don't
• 27:23
  even think about it now. I'm like, it was even then.
• 27:26
  I remember being like, man, I wish I was making more money,
• 27:28
  but it's like now I look back and I'm like, I was.
• 27:30
  That's crazy, Yeah. Can I ask you for anyone who's
• 27:33
  listening that is like a budding musician, did anyone advise you
• 27:38
  on that or did you just go with your intuition about like what
• 27:41
  to do next? No, I just, I thought about like
• 27:44
  I it's one of those things where it's going to be risky because
• 27:49
  you don't know if anyone's going to pay that much money, you know
• 27:51
  what I mean? But you know your value.
• 27:54
  Yeah, well, I didn't know that. Trying.
• 27:56
  You're assessing your. Value I was just like, I could
• 27:58
  make more money. Like I was not thinking like
• 28:00
  what's what am I? What am I giving to people
• 28:02
  that's worth it? I wasn't even there like
• 28:04
  mentally yet. And and so I ended up doing that
• 28:09
  for a while and then I had a client who he's a rapper and he
• 28:15
  was like going to the studio every day and he was doing like,
• 28:19
  I want to say like 5 to 6 hours. So 60 bucks an hour, 5 to 6
• 28:23
  hours. I'm making crazy money.
• 28:25
  And then sometimes he would do like we would start at 3:00 PM
• 28:30
  and he would want to go until 6:00 AM.
• 28:32
  And so. And you're like, I would just,
• 28:34
  yeah. And you're like, Boo Boo, I I'm
• 28:37
  here for you. Yeah.
• 28:38
  And so I would sit there and record him for like, like I
• 28:41
  would stay up all night. I would record him.
• 28:43
  And then that went on for a while and I want to say like 2-3
• 28:48
  years and then that studio shut down and.
• 28:55
  You really enjoy that. That job, yeah.
• 28:59
  Oh, yeah. That was like, I think that was
• 29:00
  my one of my funnest times because I didn't know what the
• 29:05
  fuck I was doing. Like I literally was just like
• 29:08
  recording people and making money, like whatever.
• 29:10
  Like I don't really care. But then when I I didn't
• 29:13
  anticipate it to end either, right?
• 29:16
  Like you're not thinking that the studio is going to close
• 29:18
  down. You're just like I'm recording.
• 29:20
  So is this a little adversity coming your way soon?
• 29:22
  Yes, OK. Yep.
• 29:25
  And so literally I was like, you know, that that happened and I'm
• 29:30
  like, oh, I don't have a job. Like I, I, I did not have a job
• 29:37
  and I couldn't figure out like what the next?
• 29:41
  Like what do I do now? Because that was through the
• 29:45
  school. I, I met the, the professor.
• 29:48
  So where do I find another studio that I can just work out
• 29:51
  of? You know what I mean?
• 29:53
  Yeah. And was the rug kind of pulled
• 29:55
  out from under you or it just kind of?
• 29:57
  Yeah, no, it was literally it was like we're closing like next
• 30:00
  week. And you're like WTF?
• 30:02
  Like what? Yep.
• 30:05
  So do you remember if someone listening to this has just lost
• 30:08
  a job or something didn't get renewed or they're like
• 30:11
  someone's like, you're never going to be a musician, Like you
• 30:13
  pipe dream, you know, get real. Do you remember any moments
• 30:18
  where you were like fuck and like anything that helped you?
• 30:21
  And I'll just let you talk. How about how did you going?
• 30:24
  I don't know what it was. And I, you know, I attributed a
• 30:27
  lot to my parents too. But like, I don't think that
• 30:31
  there's ever like anything bad. Like it's, it's not a good way
• 30:35
  of thinking. I'll say that all the time.
• 30:38
  Like it's definitely not. You you wrong.
• 30:41
  Yeah, I'll just be like, there's something else.
• 30:43
  I don't know, Like, that's just how I've always been.
• 30:47
  And so when that happened, I remember my mom was like, what
• 30:51
  are you going to do? What are you going to do?
• 30:52
  What are you going to do? And I was like, I don't know,
• 30:53
  like, I'm going to, you know, figure it out.
• 30:56
  Well, this is super weird, but I was on Facebook.
• 31:00
  So now Facebook's like kind of getting like, so Myspace was
• 31:03
  done. Facebook's up.
• 31:04
  I'm like, I'm like scrolling through, scrolling through
• 31:08
  Facebook. And this was right around the
• 31:11
  time that, like, I guess ads had started and this giant red ad
• 31:17
  said, are you a producer? Let's put it up there.
• 31:22
  Yeah. What?
• 31:23
  Did it look like it look like that?
• 31:25
  The producer is going to put it up there and you're like, yes.
• 31:28
  No, literally I was like, I am, That's so crazy.
• 31:32
  And so I clicked it and it took me to a link where I had to fill
• 31:37
  out my information. And so I filled out all this
• 31:39
  information about who I was and like, what I knew.
• 31:44
  Whatever. Yeah, sent it.
• 31:46
  And then like 30 minutes later, I get a phone call and it's this
• 31:50
  guy. And he's like, hey, I saw you
• 31:52
  answered our post about being a producer.
• 31:55
  And I was like, yeah, he's like, can you come down for a meeting
• 31:58
  and, and talk with us? And I was like, I don't even
• 32:00
  know who this person is. And so I was like, yeah, sure.
• 32:03
  So I drive over to the studio and when I get when I get there,
• 32:08
  it's like this. Like it's, it's small.
• 32:12
  It's small. It's similar.
• 32:14
  It's similar to the studio I just came from.
• 32:17
  So I go, I go in there. Yeah, nothing crazy.
• 32:20
  I go in there, I'm talking to guys, I play the music.
• 32:22
  The guys are listening to music and they start like bringing
• 32:25
  everybody in and they're like, are you listening to this?
• 32:28
  Like, do you hear what he's making, blah, blah, blah.
• 32:29
  And I was like, guys, this is like normal for me.
• 32:31
  So I don't know, like what? I don't know why.
• 32:34
  You're like, this is my shitty stuff actually.
• 32:36
  Yeah, I should have been like, this is this is bad.
• 32:39
  And so they were like, we want you on.
• 32:43
  And I'm like, OK, what do you want me to do?
• 32:45
  They're like, we just want you to be a producer.
• 32:46
  OK, cool. So I go home.
• 32:49
  I tell my mom I'm like, yo, I got a, you know, a job at the
• 32:51
  studio, whatever. Well, the next day they called
• 32:55
  me and they were like, can you come down to the studio?
• 32:59
  We want to show you like some stuff.
• 33:01
  I'm like, OK, cool. You're like I just.
• 33:02
  Need a job bro? Yeah, I don't care about
• 33:05
  anything else. Like I'm just going to show up
• 33:06
  and record. You're like, I'm 19, so like 20,
• 33:09
  whatever. Yeah.
• 33:10
  And so I end up going to this new address that they gave me.
• 33:17
  So I was like super confused. And I get there and it's this
• 33:22
  massive 300. No, not 300.
• 33:26
  It was probably like 35,000 square feet.
• 33:28
  It was just huge. It was a massive building.
• 33:32
  That's a lot of square feet. And I was like, I was like, what
• 33:36
  is this? And the owner, the guy who I had
• 33:38
  met with, he was like, so we didn't tell anybody, but we
• 33:41
  actually are moving to this location.
• 33:44
  But we wanted to see who would be cool with working in that
• 33:47
  location and not be cool with working in this location just
• 33:50
  because it looks nice. So they had already planned,
• 33:53
  they were planning a whole move, but they didn't want people to
• 33:56
  just go because of the space. So tell me this, is there
• 33:59
  something in the obviously in the music industry or any
• 34:02
  industry, like it doesn't matter.
• 34:03
  You're like, oh, big building, I want to be.
• 34:05
  It's not about that. It's not about the fancy
• 34:08
  bullshit. It's about the music and the
• 34:10
  right. Yeah, it can literally be it's
• 34:12
  like it's they're going to look for any of these situations are
• 34:18
  going to be like, are you going to work in the worst position?
• 34:21
  Like is it, is it, are you going to be able to work in like not
• 34:23
  the greatest studio? Like, you know, I've the the
• 34:27
  first studio that I worked at, the one that closed down.
• 34:30
  It's not like it was like millions of dollars.
• 34:32
  It was nice, but it wasn't millions of dollars.
• 34:36
  You're not like, it's not like a legendary where you're like,
• 34:38
  hey, I'm a bit ass higher like. They want, they want them.
• 34:40
  To see if you're in the right, your heart's in the right place,
• 34:42
  right? Yeah, and that I guess that's
• 34:44
  what they were like trying to do and so.
• 34:47
  Julian's heart's always in the right.
• 34:48
  Place. Exactly.
• 34:49
  I wasn't even thinking. I was just like, whatever.
• 34:51
  That's great. So I get there, I go in and
• 34:55
  they're already building it out. So they had already been doing
• 34:57
  this. The studio was like super nice.
• 35:02
  The offices were super nice. They're like, you know, we want
• 35:06
  you to be here all the time working, blah, blah, blah.
• 35:08
  They were revamping their website.
• 35:10
  They were like, how much do you do you want to charge?
• 35:12
  I was like 60 an hour. And then I worked there for
• 35:16
  maybe like a month. And then the, the one of the
• 35:20
  owners pulled me aside and he was like, hey, so can you be the
• 35:24
  studio manager? And I was like, yeah, sure.
• 35:27
  Like, I don't even know what that means, but like, OK, sure.
• 35:30
  And so they weren't paying me to be the studio manager.
• 35:33
  They were just like, can you manage the studio?
• 35:35
  And I was like, yeah, sure. So they start like putting roles
• 35:40
  out and then I, they pulled me aside for another meeting and
• 35:43
  they're like, we need to find engineers.
• 35:44
  And I'm like, well, I'm the engineer.
• 35:45
  They're like, Jack, you can't work with everybody.
• 35:48
  And I was like, yes, I can. I was like, give me all the
• 35:50
  clients. And they were like, they're like
• 35:53
  you, you need to have people under you to work for you.
• 35:56
  And I'm like, this is horrible. I just want to do all the all
• 35:59
  the work. And you, by the way, so you go
• 36:01
  by Jack London, right? Yeah.
• 36:03
  So that's your your name. Yeah, like that was and.
• 36:06
  Did I? Is it OK that I called you?
• 36:08
  Julian Oh, yeah, it doesn't matter.
• 36:09
  Yeah. It doesn't matter, OK.
• 36:09
  Or is it OK that I called you Julio?
• 36:11
  Yeah, that, yeah. But yeah, so that like they,
• 36:18
  they started, it was so funny. They started bringing all these
• 36:20
  like they had sent in applications, all these people,
• 36:23
  they're like, Jack, you need to go over everybody's stuff and
• 36:24
  like listen to it. So they'd come in, I would
• 36:26
  listen to their music. I would say like, this person's
• 36:29
  OK, whatever. And then, and then by the end of
• 36:35
  it, the only person working was me because nobody could could
• 36:40
  like handle that. It it it wasn't like they've,
• 36:45
  they thought, oh, this is cool. I'm going to come and record,
• 36:47
  have fun. And it's like, Oh no, this is
• 36:49
  actually work. And so a lot of them just kind
• 36:52
  of fell off or, you know, they, they made us mad or whatever.
• 36:55
  It's not all glamorous, No, no, the output is probably
• 36:58
  glamorous, right? Like the, but it's a creation
• 37:01
  process. It's not called engineering for
• 37:04
  nothing and production and having done this much of
• 37:08
  editing, I'm like, holy. Shit, it's hard yeah it takes
• 37:12
  like 8 hours to do 1 video It's. So hard, yeah.
• 37:16
  I have so much respect. So that whole time I was doing
• 37:20
  all of the, the music stuff at the at one point.
• 37:23
  And then we had a photo team and we had a video team.
• 37:26
  And so I would go bug them when I wasn't because I would just be
• 37:30
  at the studio all day. So I'd get there at like, you
• 37:32
  know, 8 my, you know, my really good friend Tom, he was there.
• 37:36
  He was the photo guy and we were the first people there every
• 37:40
  time. And we would just sit there all
• 37:43
  day and just be like, it's just going to, people are going to
• 37:46
  show up. People would walk through the
• 37:47
  door. We had no idea who they were.
• 37:48
  They're like, I saw you on like an ad or something.
• 37:51
  They would come in, ask for a tour.
• 37:52
  We'd give them a tour. And it just started like growing
• 37:54
  and growing, but once again. Wait, you mean I thought you
• 38:01
  only have a little adversity and then it stops?
• 38:03
  Yeah. No, no.
• 38:04
  It just keeps going OK. Cool, I'll just do a podcast
• 38:07
  about that. OK.
• 38:08
  I know this should this goes on for like a year where it's like
• 38:11
  perfect, OK. Like you're living the dream.
• 38:14
  You're like loving it. You're getting your hands dirty,
• 38:16
  but you're also managing. You're like, and I, I just
• 38:20
  bought a car. I got like a brand new
• 38:22
  Volkswagen. You're like, what's up?
• 38:26
  It was awesome. You're 2120. 2.
• 38:29
  I was like 20/22/23. OK.
• 38:33
  So this is all happening. Everyone's living their life.
• 38:37
  It's great, everything's cool. And we had, so I didn't know
• 38:40
  that there were investors involved.
• 38:42
  So the three guys that I had worked with, they were like my
• 38:47
  brothers, like we were super cool.
• 38:48
  Everything was cool. We would go and like, you know,
• 38:51
  everything was fine. And then one day the investors
• 38:55
  started coming over and was like, he's like, hey, I have
• 38:58
  these artists I want you to work with Jack's the best, blah,
• 39:00
  blah, blah, blah, blah. So I'd work with them, blah,
• 39:01
  blah, blah. But then they were like they
• 39:04
  were paying me and I remember being like, this is a weird.
• 39:07
  How they're paying me is weird. Do you have some intuition if
• 39:10
  something was off? Something was weird, yeah.
• 39:13
  And, and, and nobody would notice this because this
• 39:15
  person's giving me like a grand every once in a while.
• 39:18
  That's like, here's a grand work with my artist.
• 39:20
  Here's a grand work with my artist over and over again.
• 39:22
  And so and and normally that would be.
• 39:26
  That'd be normal. But.
• 39:27
  Like project fee or whatever, right?
• 39:29
  Like, I mean, I as a creative, it's like a fee base or yeah,
• 39:32
  whatever, right? Like.
• 39:33
  Yeah, and so I would just do the work, but I even then I was
• 39:37
  like, something is just weird. And so they started like coming
• 39:42
  over all the time. It was like 2 investors.
• 39:44
  They'd always show up. They'd they'd I'll never forget
• 39:47
  we had a giant white wall in this warehouse for photos and it
• 39:53
  was never done. Like it was just always being
• 39:56
  worked on. And I remember at the time I had
• 39:58
  just started watching Ozark. I love that.
• 40:01
  I love Jason Bateman. And so in the show, the guy was
• 40:05
  like, we're going to make this church, but we're never going to
• 40:09
  finish it. We're just going to like, we're
• 40:11
  just going to work on it because they were laundering money
• 40:13
  through this this company. So I'm watching the I remember
• 40:16
  watching it and being like, weird, they're never finishing
• 40:20
  the church to like launder money.
• 40:21
  That makes no sense. And then?
• 40:23
  While your wall. I was like, our wall is never
• 40:26
  finished, the second studio's never finished, the green
• 40:30
  screen's never finished, and they were just like randomly
• 40:33
  finish it and then like another project wouldn't be done.
• 40:37
  So I go back to the office one day and I'm like, hey guys, I'm
• 40:40
  like, I'm going to ask you a question.
• 40:43
  I said, have you guys ever looked at the checks that they
• 40:46
  give you for the rent? And they were like, no.
• 40:51
  And I'm like, you've never looked at it.
• 40:53
  And they're like, no, we just give him to Steve, the building
• 40:54
  owner who was on the other half of the building.
• 40:57
  He owned the building and they were cleared and everything was
• 40:59
  fine. And I said, let's let's go,
• 41:03
  let's go look at what they give you.
• 41:05
  So we pull out all these papers and we start looking and I'm
• 41:08
  all, so we're getting paid from this company.
• 41:12
  We're getting paid from this company.
• 41:14
  This it was not one company. It was random companies.
• 41:17
  And I mean, it was like whatever soda pop company.
• 41:20
  And then it was like bracelet company.
• 41:22
  And then it was like credit card company.
• 41:24
  It just random companies. And I was like, guys, I'm like,
• 41:28
  they're totally laundering money through the studio.
• 41:31
  And so we were like, what do we, what do we do?
• 41:35
  Did you have an AHO moment? Was it like Ozark that got like
• 41:38
  literally made you think? That that part literally made
• 41:41
  like hey we should look at this because it's weird.
• 41:43
  And were they like, were they on?
• 41:45
  Were they like, OK, Yeah, I think so too.
• 41:46
  They were like, we need to figure out what to do because
• 41:50
  we're at this height and so before they know what we're
• 41:54
  doing and like all this kind of stuff.
• 41:56
  And so we took like the first like the the month to like we
• 42:01
  were like planning. Were you so awkward at work?
• 42:04
  Were you trying not to be? Or.
• 42:06
  Did they can? See you because they were
• 42:08
  working with me, so I was like just kind of like you're.
• 42:09
  Just like Happy Wednesday. Yeah, but we told the building
• 42:16
  owner, Steve, because he had to know.
• 42:18
  And so Steve did. You know what was going on.
• 42:21
  No. And so he was like, he's like,
• 42:24
  OK, well let's he's like I own the building.
• 42:28
  I can lock them out if, if this is what's really happening.
• 42:33
  So I remember sitting with Steve and his lawyer and we're, we're
• 42:37
  going over like everything that like what we could do.
• 42:40
  And I'm like, I'm like, all right, everything is like the OK
• 42:45
  to lock them out. But that doesn't mean that
• 42:49
  they're not going to try and get in this building.
• 42:51
  And so they start, we started, we started locking, we changed
• 42:55
  the locks, we started collecting all of our stuff and we were
• 43:01
  like, we're going to get it out and then we're going to bring it
• 43:04
  back in. So we would, we would get out,
• 43:06
  they'd come back, they'd, they'd be pissed or whatever.
• 43:09
  And then they'd be like, you know, screw this place.
• 43:11
  And then we would take all of our stuff and put it back in.
• 43:14
  So they couldn't try and take anything.
• 43:16
  Back in. Yeah.
• 43:18
  And so. Julian And you're like 2223.
• 43:22
  Yeah. And so one day I get a call and
• 43:27
  my buddy's like, hey, they tried to come over without, without
• 43:31
  telling anybody. And they their, their key didn't
• 43:34
  work. And I was like, yeah, that we
• 43:36
  changed the locks. They weren't supposed to.
• 43:38
  They don't come like that. Like they don't just show up
• 43:40
  like that. And he's like, well, now they
• 43:43
  know that they're locked out. And I was like, oh, and he's
• 43:48
  like, so we need to get everything out of the studio and
• 43:51
  like all of our offices need to like be exited like out now.
• 43:55
  And I'm like. Really nice equipment, right?
• 43:57
  And there was like desks and all, everything I'm like, what
• 43:59
  do we like? What do we do?
• 44:01
  So I start taking out all my hard drives.
• 44:04
  I take out all my, you know, really my hard drives are the
• 44:07
  most important. Everything else was bought by.
• 44:09
  Music. So we get our hard drives and
• 44:13
  we're spending like like hours there and I have photos.
• 44:16
  We're like unplugging everything and like.
• 44:18
  Sweating and like dying of anxiety.
• 44:21
  No, I was just like, this is crazy.
• 44:22
  And then as we're leaving, they show up and it's like, I think
• 44:29
  it's like 8:00 at night and we're leaving.
• 44:33
  It's dark. And yeah.
• 44:34
  And they come up and they're like, they're like, so what's
• 44:37
  up? And they start like, trying to
• 44:39
  fight us in the parking lot, like physically fight us.
• 44:42
  And I'm like, yo, this is crazy. I get in my car, you're not
• 44:46
  that. Guy either you're you're like
• 44:48
  nobody, you're like this. Isn't I'm not going to fight
• 44:50
  anybody. This is stupid.
• 44:51
  Your dad's a cop, yeah. Like, it was dumb.
• 44:54
  So I literally get in the car, drive off.
• 44:56
  Steve, the building owner, he has cameras, so he calls the
• 44:59
  cops. We go around the corner, we're
• 45:01
  watching the cops pull up. They break it up, whatever.
• 45:06
  And so we're like, you know, you guys are locked out.
• 45:11
  You know, we're out, we're not going to come back, whatever.
• 45:15
  Well, the next day we show up and the door had been like just
• 45:21
  like cracked open. They just like cracked it.
• 45:23
  And I mean, these were the building was massive.
• 45:26
  It was so nice. It was so modern.
• 45:28
  It had big thick glass doors. They broke the glass door got in
• 45:32
  that night after we had left and took everything out like all
• 45:37
  your equipment, all the equipment was gone.
• 45:38
  So microphones, cameras and like.
• 45:42
  I know how much that stuff costs.
• 45:43
  That's crazy. It's.
• 45:45
  Expensive. They took stuff that wasn't even
• 45:48
  there. They took they took computers
• 45:52
  that had stuff on it that are just gone.
• 45:55
  So like criminals we have, we have very little footage from
• 46:01
  that time. Did you get your music?
• 46:03
  Did they? Get, yeah, because I only had
• 46:05
  like 3 hard drives that I could like take.
• 46:08
  And I remember I specifically took hard drives and did not use
• 46:10
  anyone else's because of literally this situation.
• 46:13
  I'm like, well, what if someone steals my like music or
• 46:15
  something? So that happened.
• 46:18
  And then I met with the, my, my buddies and I'm like, all right,
• 46:23
  So what are we doing? We going back in, we're going to
• 46:25
  remake the, you know, the whole thing.
• 46:27
  And they're like, no, they're like, we don't want to do this
• 46:30
  anymore. And I'm like, guys, I'm like, we
• 46:32
  can't just like give up because those guys like we were on a
• 46:34
  roll, like we were the only studio that was doing that.
• 46:39
  And the guys were like, no, like we can't, we can't keep going.
• 46:42
  And I'm like, all right, well then I'm going to do it.
• 46:47
  And so say. OK, so if somebody I'm so
• 46:53
  fucking proud of you, I can say that because I'm I was your
• 46:56
  teacher, because you know when people say that's like
• 46:58
  condescending, you're like, you're not my mom.
• 47:00
  Shut up. Like my dad and mom can say like
• 47:01
  stop being fucking weird, but I'm OK.
• 47:08
  This is why you're a bad ass. I only recently developed the
• 47:12
  skill to not let that big rug pulling event be like, Oh well,
• 47:17
  This is why I suck because I suck at it.
• 47:20
  And this is just a confirmation because I suck and I'm not good
• 47:23
  enough. You were like, no, fuck this,
• 47:25
  right? So you did you remember?
• 47:28
  Did you have when they were saying no, obviously they were
• 47:32
  enjoying what they're doing. They let this adversity
• 47:36
  basically be like fuck it. Yeah, like.
• 47:39
  It's too hard. It's too scary, too hard.
• 47:41
  So you were like, no. Yeah, I was like, no, that's
• 47:44
  the, there's, I was like, how could you guys give up?
• 47:46
  I'm like, we could call it anything else, like what?
• 47:48
  I don't care. And those guys, they were like,
• 47:51
  we're done. And so they leave and I'm
• 47:56
  sitting there with the building owner and the lawyer, and he's
• 47:59
  like, what are we going to do? And I'm like, I don't know.
• 48:02
  I'll figure it out. And I'm like, I don't even know
• 48:03
  what I'm doing. Like I was just like, I'm just
• 48:05
  going to say, yeah. And so during that time though,
• 48:10
  I had already in between that time had been working with so
• 48:14
  many people that one of the people that came in, what I
• 48:20
  would do was whenever. So my studio door was like kind
• 48:23
  of close. There was a hallway and then my
• 48:26
  studio door and then the front door was in that hallway.
• 48:30
  So basically anybody who walked in had to go by my studio could.
• 48:34
  Hear your brilliance. And so I, no, seriously, you
• 48:37
  know what I would do? They I'd hear the door open and
• 48:40
  I would press play and I'd turn it up and like, because I was
• 48:43
  there all day not doing anything.
• 48:45
  So I would just sit there with my feet up in the studio, wait
• 48:48
  for the door to open, press play.
• 48:51
  Someone would walk in and go, what is that?
• 48:53
  And I'd be like, oh, I just produced this right now.
• 48:55
  And they'd be like, what? And they'd sit down and talk to
• 48:57
  me. So like I would do that over and
• 48:59
  I got so many clients from. This you got to you got to
• 49:02
  believe in you before other people do, right?
• 49:05
  You're like, this is what I got, Boo Boo.
• 49:07
  So. Come on in.
• 49:09
  So one day this guy came in and so this was before everything
• 49:13
  bad happened but this this one guy came in and I got introduced
• 49:17
  to him and he listened to my music and he didn't say
• 49:20
  anything. It was the first time someone
• 49:22
  just listened to my music it was like and then walked away.
• 49:25
  I was like what the fuck? I was like, you're like, I hope
• 49:28
  you have a shitty cup of coffee. I was like, do you know what I
• 49:32
  just grace your ears with you're.
• 49:34
  Like I whatever. Didn't need you anyway.
• 49:37
  Yeah, I was like, I don't need you anyway.
• 49:38
  But this was a, this was a lesson.
• 49:40
  So I was like, whatever. And.
• 49:44
  Like he's an asshole anyway. Literally.
• 49:45
  And I would tell people, I'd be like when they'd ask me about
• 49:48
  the situation, I'd be like, I was like, fuck that guy.
• 49:50
  I was like, I don't know who he is.
• 49:51
  I was like, whatever. Come to find out that he's the
• 49:55
  dad of one of like the biggest hip hop and pop producers at
• 50:01
  that time. OK, so like I'm talking Cardi
• 50:05
  BGEZ, like big, big names. And my buddy was all.
• 50:13
  He's like, hey, he's like, you know, so and so wants to meet
• 50:15
  with you again. And I'm like, he didn't even
• 50:16
  listen to my music last time. What does it matter?
• 50:18
  And he's like, you might want to meet with him.
• 50:20
  And so comes in with his wife and they're all play this music.
• 50:24
  And I'm I'm in my chair playing the music.
• 50:28
  The wife is listening. She's kind of like on her phone.
• 50:30
  The dad's listening, but has he has two Airpods in or not
• 50:34
  Airpods. He had wired headphones on, so
• 50:36
  he's listening to music or whatever while I'm playing.
• 50:39
  I'm like, what am I doing? And so I'm playing the music and
• 50:43
  then they leave and I'm like, I'm like, what is?
• 50:47
  Happening rather wasted hour of my life I.
• 50:50
  Know I was I was getting so frustrated so.
• 50:55
  You should have said you need to talk to Miss Cooley.
• 50:57
  She's going to put you in your place.
• 50:58
  I know I said what the great teacher is going to tell you.
• 51:01
  So my buddy ends up telling me he's like hey, this is so and so
• 51:05
  and I'm like oh shit, that's kind of crazy.
• 51:08
  And he's like they want to meet with you again, huh.
• 51:11
  No give. Me the deets, you got a name
• 51:13
  drop? I can't name drop these people.
• 51:15
  I'll tell you why later. So damn it, they they end up
• 51:20
  coming back and listening to my music again, but this time
• 51:23
  they're like, OK, we, we want to like work with you, like send us
• 51:27
  these songs. I'm like, OK, so I send them the
• 51:29
  songs. I go home, I get in the shower,
• 51:32
  I get a phone call. It's my buddy who introduced us.
• 51:34
  And he's like, yo, I need you to come over to so and So's house.
• 51:39
  And I'm like, OK, so I get out of the shower.
• 51:41
  I go there and we're in his in his living room and he's all
• 51:46
  play me some more music. And I'm like, I don't even have
• 51:49
  any more. I played you everything I have.
• 51:50
  You're like listen bro, I'm done.
• 51:53
  I was getting so mad. And I play it for him and he
• 51:57
  goes, well, he's like, my son's on his way.
• 52:00
  And I'm like, oh, shit. Like I was like, OK, that's a
• 52:02
  little different. And we're in his house and he's
• 52:05
  like, yeah, he's on his way. His mom wants to go get them.
• 52:07
  They'll be here in a little bit. He goes, he wants to talk to
• 52:09
  you. And I'm like, OK, so his son
• 52:12
  shows up, this big producer walks in.
• 52:15
  He doesn't even know I'm there, right?
• 52:17
  So like his dad was telling me that he's he's excited to meet
• 52:22
  me. The guy gets there and is like
• 52:24
  who is this random person in my house?
• 52:27
  And he's like totally not in celebrity mode at this point.
• 52:30
  He's like at home with mom and dad.
• 52:31
  So this is a celeb. Yes.
• 52:34
  And I'm like. And so he's, you know, grabs a
• 52:38
  Gatorade like, oh. You knew he.
• 52:40
  You knew he. Was kind of.
• 52:40
  I knew who he was, yeah. They didn't tell him I was
• 52:43
  there. That's annoying.
• 52:44
  I hate that. That's fucking annoying.
• 52:46
  Yeah, it was. It was dumb 'cause like now you
• 52:48
  make me. Look like an ass.
• 52:49
  Exactly what are you doing? So then he goes play him your
• 52:53
  music and I'm like OK so I play the music again and he looks at
• 52:58
  me and he goes who is that? And I go that's my 2 best
• 53:02
  friends and he goes, who produced it?
• 53:04
  I said me. He goes call them right now and
• 53:09
  tell them to come over. And I'm like I'm like I can't
• 53:12
  like they have jobs like this is like not a thing.
• 53:15
  So I end up calling my 2 best friends this guy and this girl.
• 53:20
  And I go, hey, I'm like, this is not really weird, but you guys
• 53:23
  need to come over here. And this is in Arizona, right?
• 53:26
  This is in Arizona. Yeah.
• 53:27
  And so they like fly down, they fucking drive in super fast.
• 53:32
  And they come in the house and the guy's like, did you guys
• 53:37
  write all this? And we're all.
• 53:38
  Yeah, we did it basically in my room because some of this stuff
• 53:42
  was old. And.
• 53:44
  And he goes, OK, well, he goes, I want to work with you guys.
• 53:49
  I'm like, OK, what does that mean?
• 53:51
  He's like, I'll have more details.
• 53:52
  He's in a little bit, but you guys are good.
• 53:54
  Like we're going to work on some stuff.
• 53:56
  A week later he goes, he calls me again and he's like, you
• 54:01
  let's all meet at this really famous studio.
• 54:03
  So we go to this really big studio.
• 54:05
  We're hanging out. I have all of this on video
• 54:07
  because I, I, I called my friends.
• 54:09
  I'm like my 2 video, my video guy, my photo guy, like just
• 54:12
  come down here because I don't know what's going to happen and
• 54:16
  I just think it's a good idea. And so he comes down, we all get
• 54:21
  together and we're in this big studio and the guys like the
• 54:25
  celebrity guys, like you guys need to quit all of your jobs.
• 54:33
  And I'm like, I don't have a job.
• 54:34
  I make music. You're like done.
• 54:37
  Yeah, done. And so, and so my 2 best friends
• 54:41
  work at like, one of them works at like a, you know, like a
• 54:44
  clothing store and the other one works for a security company.
• 54:47
  And my, my best friend's like, I can't just quit my job.
• 54:51
  Like I got bills to pay and whatnot.
• 54:53
  And he's like, you'll be fine, just quit your job.
• 54:56
  And I'm like, what's happening? And he goes, I want to sign you
• 55:01
  guys. And so you guys need to be in
• 55:03
  the studio everyday. So celebrities sign producers to
• 55:07
  work exclusively with them. No, that's exactly the red flag
• 55:10
  that I should have paid attention to.
• 55:13
  The adversity comes again, but well.
• 55:15
  I mean, you're freaking 23. I'm sorry, How are you supposed
• 55:18
  to know all this shit? I don't even know this stuff,
• 55:20
  right? You know what I mean?
• 55:21
  It seems so, but did you have anything going off in your head
• 55:24
  about like, or you were just it's OK and you can't tell me
• 55:28
  the celeb? It's OK if you can't.
• 55:29
  You can't tell me the celeb, right?
• 55:30
  I'll tell you why when but like on but like when this is
• 55:34
  happening, I remember I almost like threw up like cycling.
• 55:41
  Or nervousness. Out of just like freaking out
• 55:44
  like. Excitement.
• 55:46
  Or bad. Yeah, I've never even had that
• 55:47
  before. And so I like, it's on camera.
• 55:51
  I like to walk out of the room and my buddy's filming me and
• 55:54
  he's like, you OK. And I'm like, I'm going to
• 55:57
  fucking throw up, dude. I'm like, what is happening?
• 56:00
  And he's like, he's like, go back in there, dude.
• 56:03
  He's like, this is crazy. And so I go back in there and
• 56:05
  he's like, you know, you guys got to call your jobs, quit your
• 56:08
  jobs. My 2 best friends quit their job
• 56:11
  for the next month. We're in the studio every day
• 56:15
  and so mind you, this is happening when everything's
• 56:17
  going good over at that other studio, so nothing bad has
• 56:19
  happened yet. OK.
• 56:22
  So flash forward to when the bad shit had happened and that
• 56:25
  studio started closing. Oh right, this is when
• 56:28
  everything was going good and then and then you get like
• 56:30
  robbed and shit and then so. After that I'm like, I don't
• 56:35
  have a studio for work, but also I'm like it doesn't matter
• 56:39
  because they told me I didn't need to work and so I was still
• 56:43
  going to the studio everyday making music at that really big
• 56:46
  studio and everything was fine. OK.
• 56:49
  Then I get a call and it's from the dad and he goes the dad of
• 56:53
  A. Celeb.
• 56:54
  Yep. He goes, this is a random night
• 56:56
  while I'm I'm having dinner with a client.
• 56:59
  He goes, hey, I need you to get on on a plane.
• 57:01
  I'm like, what are you talking about?
• 57:04
  You're like I. Need you to provide more
• 57:05
  information. Yeah, I was like, I was like,
• 57:08
  it's 5:00 in the evening and I'm having dinner with a client.
• 57:12
  What are we doing? And he's like, oh, you're going
• 57:14
  to get on a plane right now and you're going to work with the
• 57:16
  chain smokers. And I'm like, what the fuck?
• 57:20
  Yeah, yeah, that was me. Yeah.
• 57:26
  So I'm like, OK, so get on a plane.
• 57:30
  I get back. I get.
• 57:32
  And what year? Is this This is like 12.
• 57:34
  This is. 22. Thousand, 12/14/13.
• 57:36
  No, this is like we're, we're far past that.
• 57:40
  This is like 2000 17. So yeah.
• 57:45
  So I end up getting on a plane, getting off the plane, and then
• 57:50
  some driver picks me up, drives me all the way up this mountain
• 57:54
  in, in like the hills. And yeah, and I it was like the.
• 58:00
  Hollywood Hills darling. Yeah, pretty much, yeah.
• 58:03
  And it was like, mind you, I got the call at 5, my flight was at
• 58:06
  like 8, and then I get there at like 9 or some shit.
• 58:12
  So I get to the studio, I'm working with The Chainsmokers.
• 58:14
  I'm freaking the fuck out. I don't even know what to do.
• 58:17
  It's like it's like 10:00 at night starts at this point.
• 58:21
  It gets to like midnight and I'm like, how long am I going to be
• 58:25
  here? You're like.
• 58:26
  I have to go wake myself up and then throw up as well so.
• 58:31
  That ended up going until like 4:00 in the morning and halfway
• 58:36
  through that the the sun was like, he's like, he's like, you
• 58:42
  need to play something on this. And I'm like, I can't even think
• 58:45
  of anything to play because the song sounds done like I was
• 58:49
  like. And by the way, we can edit this
• 58:51
  out if I'm asking you too much detail, but.
• 58:54
  No, I, I'll, yeah. Is it the you're working with
• 58:56
  the chainsmoke like the Sun is the singer?
• 58:59
  The two guys, OK, Yeah. Were they cheating nicely?
• 59:04
  Yeah, they were cool. OK, they had just came out with
• 59:08
  Closer with Halsey. So like their biggest song.
• 59:11
  Yeah. So I'm working with till like,
• 59:16
  you know, 4:00 in the morning and the guys like you need to,
• 59:20
  you got to play something. And I'm like, I don't know what
• 59:22
  to do. I'm like, the song is fine.
• 59:23
  And he's like, you need to play something.
• 59:25
  And I'm like, what? And he's like, oh.
• 59:27
  They. Wanted you on it.
• 59:28
  Yeah. He's like, well, it's not that
• 59:30
  they wanted me on it. Anybody who plays anything on a
• 59:33
  song. Oh, you get credit you.
• 59:35
  Get credit for it so they were just trying to build my credit
• 59:38
  of songs that I have nice. Well, so yeah, so I end up, you
• 59:45
  know, playing some shit on it. Whatever song comes out, I'm the
• 59:49
  song comes out like three years later, some crazy shit, but.
• 59:52
  Can you tell me the song or no? Yeah, it's called kills you
• 59:56
  slowly, OK and so. That night OK so I leave at 7:00
• 1:00:03
  in the morning so I go to bed at like 5, wake up get on a plane
• 1:00:07
  fly home my dad and my mom pick me up and I'm just like what is
• 1:00:11
  happening like I was. Were you happy or like it was a
• 1:00:14
  surreal? I don't.
• 1:00:16
  I was. I couldn't even process it.
• 1:00:18
  The only reason why I wasn't happy was because I didn't learn
• 1:00:22
  anything. Like when I was in the studio
• 1:00:26
  with them, I was thinking I'm going to learn how to.
• 1:00:29
  Make This is going to be a. This is going to be a a.
• 1:00:32
  Beautiful. Yeah, I'm going to be learning
• 1:00:34
  something. I learned absolutely nothing.
• 1:00:36
  I learned that they were using the same stuff I was using.
• 1:00:38
  They weren't doing anything special.
• 1:00:40
  They just had money, like that's pretty much it.
• 1:00:44
  Like they had funding and a backing from a label.
• 1:00:46
  And that's because some songs I've done, a lot of people have
• 1:00:49
  been like, oh, that could be on the radio.
• 1:00:50
  And I'm like, yeah, but it it's not about how good the song is.
• 1:00:54
  It's about the money that gets put behind it.
• 1:00:56
  And usually it's the label. It's really not.
• 1:00:58
  Damn it. I thought it was about how good
• 1:01:00
  it is. No, and it's only good to a lot
• 1:01:03
  of people because as you don't have any other choice to listen
• 1:01:07
  to it. It's it's what can get above the
• 1:01:09
  noise and like get. Heard so like once you hear a
• 1:01:12
  song, you're like, oh, that's a really good song.
• 1:01:13
  It's like, well, you might have never heard that song ever.
• 1:01:17
  It wouldn't matter though, you know what I mean?
• 1:01:18
  Paid for the exposure. Yeah, So I do that whole thing.
• 1:01:23
  I go home and then like 2 weeks later it's like Valentine's Day
• 1:01:27
  and I'm with my girlfriend and who's my girlfriend now and so.
• 1:01:33
  We like her, right? We do.
• 1:01:34
  We love her. Because I have to punch the
• 1:01:36
  other one. But yeah, you can punch the
• 1:01:38
  other one. I mean, she went metaphorically.
• 1:01:40
  Yeah, she, I feel so bad because it was Valentine's Day, but I,
• 1:01:44
  I'm driving to go pick her up and I get a phone call and it's
• 1:01:49
  the guy, the dad, and he's like, hey, I need you to get on a
• 1:01:51
  plane. Why?
• 1:01:52
  Is the dad? Is he the business manager?
• 1:01:54
  Why is he calling? Yeah, he's like the manager.
• 1:01:55
  OK, because I'm like, why is dad calling?
• 1:01:57
  It's like Kris Jenner. Dad.
• 1:01:59
  Yeah. So he, you know, he's like, I
• 1:02:04
  need you to get on a plane and I'm like you're.
• 1:02:05
  Like I know bro. I'm like, she's going to be so
• 1:02:07
  mad because it was like we had a plan and all this kind of stuff.
• 1:02:12
  And then I'm going, I'm on the way to get her and I go.
• 1:02:14
  Now I have to turn around so. I'm sure she knew this was big
• 1:02:17
  for you though, right? Or I mean.
• 1:02:20
  We were young though, we were like 23.
• 1:02:21
  You're right. And women are we get a little
• 1:02:24
  Moody. So I end up, I end up going
• 1:02:29
  backwards, going back home and my, my best friend, he I go, you
• 1:02:35
  need to drive me to the airport. And he's like, why?
• 1:02:37
  He's I said because so and so said I got to get on the plane
• 1:02:39
  and go go back to LA and he's like, why?
• 1:02:41
  I'm like, I don't know. He's going to tell me when I get
• 1:02:43
  there. So I get to the airport, they
• 1:02:45
  give me all my information. I go where am I going?
• 1:02:47
  What's happening? Why don't?
• 1:02:48
  They just give it to you on a Is that like a music thing where
• 1:02:51
  you're like, you'll find out when you get there?
• 1:02:52
  Like they just don't have all the all the.
• 1:02:54
  Things they don't know. They don't know anything yet.
• 1:02:56
  So then they finally call me and I'm like, what am I doing?
• 1:02:58
  They're like, oh, you're going to be on Netflix.
• 1:03:02
  So I'm like, OK, two weeks ago I worked with chain smokers.
• 1:03:05
  This week I'm on Netflix. So I end up flying to LA that
• 1:03:11
  night. I get there at like, Oh no, no,
• 1:03:13
  no, no, we didn't fly. I get there to to my best friend
• 1:03:18
  to take me to fly. There's no flights.
• 1:03:21
  So the dad is like, hey, there's no flights, you got to drive
• 1:03:24
  here. And I'm like, it's midnight.
• 1:03:28
  So if we drive there, we're going to get there at 7:00 or
• 1:03:33
  like 6 or something, will. Be nice and fresh for you.
• 1:03:36
  So me and my best friend Dan get in the car, drive to LA at like
• 1:03:41
  midnight. He's a good friend.
• 1:03:43
  Oh yeah, best friend and we go. We get there, we check in, I
• 1:03:50
  sleep for 30 minutes, and then I wake up and have to go.
• 1:03:52
  And it's like 1. It feels like one minute where
• 1:03:54
  you're like. No, one of the No Seriously, it
• 1:03:55
  was one of those things where I close my eyes and you woke up.
• 1:03:58
  Yep. And then you're like so tired.
• 1:04:00
  Yep. So then I had to I, you know,
• 1:04:02
  went down to this studio and they, I was like, what am I
• 1:04:07
  doing? Like, I don't even know.
• 1:04:08
  I don't what like, how does this work?
• 1:04:10
  And they're like, oh, you're just going to be an engineer for
• 1:04:11
  all these people, but the cameras are going to be rolling
• 1:04:13
  and there's a whole story going on.
• 1:04:15
  So you're part of it. And I'm like, OK, so then I'm
• 1:04:18
  filming. I'm, I'm basically an engineer
• 1:04:21
  for this, this show called Rhythm and Flow.
• 1:04:25
  So it was basically like American Idol for rappers.
• 1:04:29
  OK, uh huh. So.
• 1:04:30
  Oh, you're yeah, got it. You're getting the beats so they
• 1:04:32
  can compete. Yep.
• 1:04:33
  So I'm, I'm recording them and like making them sound good and
• 1:04:37
  whatnot, but like I'm on camera and then they're, they pull me
• 1:04:40
  aside for interviews because you're good.
• 1:04:42
  Looking and you're good. Exactly.
• 1:04:46
  You're you're good looking and articulate.
• 1:04:47
  You had really good middle school teachers that prepped you
• 1:04:50
  for this, so it makes sense. But that here's the.
• 1:04:54
  Problem. You're charismatic.
• 1:04:56
  The guy that the guy that was the the like above me, the guy
• 1:04:59
  who that was like the main person for this show, there was
• 1:05:03
  like multiple producers. And then there's me who's an
• 1:05:06
  engineer. At the time, I wasn't producing
• 1:05:08
  anything for this. I'm just engineering.
• 1:05:11
  We're not that important. So we're kind of like in the
• 1:05:13
  background. So it didn't really make matter
• 1:05:15
  really. But the problem was my guy
• 1:05:19
  wasn't a producer, he just made beats.
• 1:05:22
  So he doesn't know how to like put songs together.
• 1:05:24
  He would just make, he would just make music and like, send
• 1:05:27
  it out. Because it's different.
• 1:05:28
  Engineer the beat. Produce the beat.
• 1:05:32
  Produce all that kind of stuff. There's all these different
• 1:05:35
  things. So he just made the beats, knew
• 1:05:37
  nothing else. So as we're working, they're
• 1:05:41
  like, hey, so and so you got to tell them what to do so we can
• 1:05:44
  get on camera. And that guy was like, I don't
• 1:05:46
  do that. That's not my job.
• 1:05:47
  I don't know what to do. And he's like, Jack, can you do
• 1:05:49
  it for me? I'm like, I'm not supposed to be
• 1:05:52
  your person. What the hell?
• 1:05:54
  So they start filming me doing his job and I'm like, how is
• 1:06:00
  this going to work? Because he's never on camera,
• 1:06:02
  because he doesn't know what to do.
• 1:06:04
  So I do this whole thing. I I'm there for two weekends.
• 1:06:08
  So I'm there for a weekend, go home, I get phone back out for
• 1:06:11
  another weekend, and then that's it.
• 1:06:12
  Yeah. So it comes out like maybe a
• 1:06:18
  year and a half later, two years, and we're watching it and
• 1:06:24
  all my parts, I'm there like, you can see me, like
• 1:06:27
  everything's fine. But all the parts where he's
• 1:06:29
  supposed to be talking, they overdubbed with me talking so
• 1:06:34
  like they would like show. Not all real.
• 1:06:36
  No, so they would like show like him in the in behind the glass
• 1:06:41
  and he'd be like talking. But then it'd be me.
• 1:06:43
  Thank you. Yeah.
• 1:06:46
  It was so funny. OK.
• 1:06:50
  So your rhythm and flow, you did that.
• 1:06:54
  And then so did you continue doing like take me through like.
• 1:07:01
  So then. Yeah.
• 1:07:03
  So then they want me to work with so I work with
• 1:07:06
  Chainsmokers. They wanted me to work with some
• 1:07:10
  rappers, They wanted my best friend to work with Bruno Mars
• 1:07:13
  Band. They wanted my other best friend
• 1:07:15
  to work with the the Son and Halsey.
• 1:07:20
  Halsey commented on like her Instagram.
• 1:07:22
  Like they planned this whole thing.
• 1:07:24
  It was a whole plan, but then adversity again.
• 1:07:30
  There's no no adversity in life. Nope.
• 1:07:33
  Just shows up so I get AI get a call one day and my my buddy was
• 1:07:42
  like, hey, this other rapper. So my buddy that I was talking
• 1:07:45
  about the rapper from forever ago.
• 1:07:47
  Our other buddy had passed away. He got shot.
• 1:07:50
  So I was like, damn, that sucks. I'm going to go home like
• 1:07:54
  whatever, it's horrible. I come back and the dad was
• 1:08:00
  like, he's like, hey, he's like, I want to talk.
• 1:08:04
  And so I go talk to him and he's like, so I know that.
• 1:08:09
  Yeah, no, the the the celebrity guy.
• 1:08:11
  The celebrity dad. Yeah, so he's like, hey, so I
• 1:08:18
  know you didn't go after with. So the chain smokers had
• 1:08:21
  invited. Celebrity guy's name.
• 1:08:23
  But you were. This is the guy.
• 1:08:25
  The guy that had introduced you. The chain smokers.
• 1:08:28
  Yeah, OK. So, so yeah, the celebrity guy's
• 1:08:32
  dad, the one you were asking like why he's always like
• 1:08:34
  talking to us and what not the manager guy.
• 1:08:36
  So he pulled me aside and he was like, you know, The Chainsmokers
• 1:08:42
  had invited you out to go to Vegas with them and you didn't
• 1:08:46
  go. And I was like, no, I didn't.
• 1:08:48
  And he's like, why not? And I was like, well cuz my
• 1:08:51
  friend got shot and I had to go back home, right?
• 1:08:54
  And he was like, well I know your friend didn't get shot.
• 1:08:58
  And I'm like, yes, he did. Like I was like, yeah, it was
• 1:09:02
  super weird. I'm like, yeah, he did.
• 1:09:04
  And he was like, well, I don't think he did.
• 1:09:06
  And I'm like, it was just super weird.
• 1:09:08
  Yeah, this was like my first taste of like, scary music
• 1:09:12
  industry shit. OK, So I was like, I was like,
• 1:09:16
  well, he did. And so and he's like, OK, and
• 1:09:20
  he's like, just make sure you don't lie to me about stuff.
• 1:09:22
  I'm like, OK, I'm not. I'm like, he got shot.
• 1:09:25
  So. So after that I was like, that
• 1:09:29
  was kind of weird. And then I got I, I randomly get
• 1:09:34
  hit with a contract. So up until this point I had no
• 1:09:38
  contracts to anybody. You would just work with like.
• 1:09:41
  We just would be able to do whatever.
• 1:09:43
  No, I would just do whatever they told me to do.
• 1:09:45
  I would just go where they told me.
• 1:09:46
  They were basically funding our lives.
• 1:09:49
  The Chainsmokers. No, the celebrity guy.
• 1:09:52
  Celebrity guy and you were. And then he you would go, Yeah.
• 1:09:55
  Yeah, yeah, OK. He would just send us places.
• 1:09:57
  You would produce for various people.
• 1:09:59
  Yep. And so the, the, the, the
• 1:10:01
  celebrity guy's dad was managing us, but what they were doing.
• 1:10:07
  So when I, you know, when you look back on it, it's like, oh,
• 1:10:10
  you know, you're going to work with chain smokers, you're going
• 1:10:12
  to do Netflix, all that kind of stuff was just buttering us up
• 1:10:18
  for when you get a contract and you're like, well, they, they
• 1:10:21
  did all this shit for me, you know, like they've done all
• 1:10:23
  these things, Why would they not do whatever?
• 1:10:26
  So we, we, I get the contract and I'm looking at it and I
• 1:10:31
  remember, so I remember how I told you I was in school for
• 1:10:34
  like 1 year basically. You were in college.
• 1:10:37
  Training, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:10:38
  So that I remember I took I had to take a business class.
• 1:10:44
  And so to learn the business of music, right?
• 1:10:45
  Yeah, so I took a music business class and I learned some shit.
• 1:10:48
  The one thing I will never forget my teacher saying over
• 1:10:51
  and over again, and then we had guests come in and say it,
• 1:10:54
  they'd always be like, never give up your publishing, never
• 1:10:56
  give up your publishing. They would say this over and
• 1:10:58
  over again and I'd be like, I don't care, like what?
• 1:11:01
  I would never like dive too much into the business stuff.
• 1:11:05
  I would do all the homework. I would learn it, whatever.
• 1:11:08
  So that day when I got the contract, I look at it and I'm
• 1:11:12
  like, oh, that's so funny. You want to own like 30% of my
• 1:11:16
  publishing. And I'm like, no, I was like,
• 1:11:19
  red flag. Yeah.
• 1:11:20
  I was like, my teachers had told me flat out that was like the
• 1:11:23
  number one thing not to do. So I start reading more of the
• 1:11:29
  contract and it's like publishing royalties.
• 1:11:34
  And it was like net worth. And I'm like, OK, so I start
• 1:11:38
  looking at it and I'm like, this looks like you own all of
• 1:11:42
  everything, basically. Even though it's like small
• 1:11:44
  percentages here and there, it basically adds up a lot to a
• 1:11:48
  lot. Yeah.
• 1:11:49
  And then I keep looking. And then I'm like, oh, and it
• 1:11:51
  says in perpetuity. So basically you own my
• 1:11:54
  everything forever. Like you're going to own like
• 1:11:58
  all of my money. I'm like, what happens if I do a
• 1:12:01
  photo shoot and I I make money from that?
• 1:12:02
  You get part of that too, because that doesn't make any
• 1:12:04
  sense. So you were.
• 1:12:05
  Doing modeling too, right? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:12:07
  So I was just like looking at all of it and I'm like, you're
• 1:12:10
  basically trying to take everything.
• 1:12:13
  Well mind you my 2 best friends got the same contract so I'm
• 1:12:17
  like so. Fucking.
• 1:12:19
  Gross. I'm like, you're like triple
• 1:12:20
  dipping basically. Gross.
• 1:12:22
  Yeah, so I got on a call with him and I'm like, hey, man, I'm
• 1:12:28
  like, he's like, oh, are you going to sign?
• 1:12:30
  Blah, blah, blah. I'm like, no, I was like, can we
• 1:12:31
  just make a few adjustments? And he was like, oh, what?
• 1:12:35
  You don't you don't think I deserve any of this?
• 1:12:36
  And I'm like, that's not what I'm saying.
• 1:12:38
  I'm saying that I don't think that you see.
• 1:12:40
  A narcissist. I don't know.
• 1:12:42
  I didn't know. I didn't know him well enough.
• 1:12:44
  Yeah, probably. So I was like, I'm like, no, I'm
• 1:12:49
  not saying that at all. I'm like, I I you deserve a lot
• 1:12:51
  because you've got me so much shit.
• 1:12:52
  I'm like, but this is not standard.
• 1:12:55
  And I know that. And so he was like, well, and
• 1:12:59
  this was this was crazy. He goes, well, then I'm just
• 1:13:04
  going to tell my son that you're racist.
• 1:13:08
  And I'm like, huh, Like I remember I was on the phone.
• 1:13:12
  I'm like, what are you talking about?
• 1:13:14
  And he's like, yeah, I'm going to tell him you're racist.
• 1:13:16
  And I'm like, that is very strange.
• 1:13:19
  And I'm like, makes absolutely no sense.
• 1:13:21
  And he's like, well, if you're not going to sign it and you
• 1:13:24
  don't think that I can do any of that, then I'll just make sure
• 1:13:26
  that you aren't part of this anymore.
• 1:13:27
  And I'm like, OK, I'm like, well, I'm not racist.
• 1:13:32
  So go ahead. Like I was like, I don't know
• 1:13:35
  what to tell you. And so he's like, OK, hangs up
• 1:13:38
  the phone and he's like, he's like yelling at me.
• 1:13:41
  And I, I just like hang up on him.
• 1:13:43
  And I call my best friend. I'm like, hey, you need to call
• 1:13:45
  so and so and let him know like what his dad's saying because
• 1:13:47
  this is just weird. Gets him on the phone.
• 1:13:50
  I'm on three-way. He tells him what his dad says
• 1:13:53
  and the guy, the celebrity guy's like he's like laughing.
• 1:13:56
  He's like, Jack's not racist. He's like, that's the dumbest
• 1:13:58
  thing I've ever heard. I'm like exactly.
• 1:14:00
  I'm like so I don't know why he's going to tell.
• 1:14:01
  Like it makes no sense. And then literally the next day,
• 1:14:05
  radio silence from like everybody and I'm like OK, this
• 1:14:10
  is weird. Like no response to anybody.
• 1:14:13
  Nothing. I get a call like 3 days after
• 1:14:17
  that from the mom and the the mom of the celebrity and.
• 1:14:24
  That initial meeting on her phone, just chilling.
• 1:14:26
  Yep. And the mom gets on and I'm
• 1:14:29
  like, hey. And she's like, hey, what's
• 1:14:31
  going on? I go nothing.
• 1:14:34
  I don't know what's going on at all.
• 1:14:35
  I'm like, I have a contract for, you know, management and blah,
• 1:14:38
  blah, blah. And she's like, oh, well, I
• 1:14:41
  didn't know that you got that. And I'm like, oh, so this person
• 1:14:45
  did this without you knowing too.
• 1:14:47
  I'm like, you don't think that's weird?
• 1:14:49
  And she was like, well, we're separated right now.
• 1:14:51
  I'm like, oh, so that's why you haven't been around.
• 1:14:53
  And I'm like, oh, so basically he's trying to lock us into a
• 1:14:56
  deal because he knows this whole thing's falling apart on their
• 1:14:59
  end and he wants to save it by locking us into some shit.
• 1:15:03
  So I started like putting all these things together and the
• 1:15:06
  mom's like, well, let me put you in contact with this, this music
• 1:15:10
  executive. And she puts me in contact with
• 1:15:13
  one of the biggest music executives ever.
• 1:15:15
  And he's like, hey, you know, I have your deal on the table,
• 1:15:19
  like, what's going on? And I'm like, well, apparently
• 1:15:21
  per this contract, I have to have a manager before I sign
• 1:15:25
  your contract. And he's like, that's not the
• 1:15:26
  case. He's like, you need to get a
• 1:15:27
  lawyer. I'm like, what is happening?
• 1:15:29
  So I tried finding a lawyer. Can't find a lawyer.
• 1:15:34
  I call my buddy who was one of the three owners of that place.
• 1:15:39
  And I'm like, hey, dude, I'm like, do you want to manage us?
• 1:15:42
  I'm like, because you're the only person I trust.
• 1:15:44
  I've known you for a long time and there's obviously a deal on
• 1:15:48
  the table, but we can't get to it because like all this stuff
• 1:15:53
  is going on. That guy decides to tell the
• 1:15:57
  celebrity guy's dad what I said. And so now nobody's working with
• 1:16:02
  me. I'm like, homeboy, I was trying
• 1:16:04
  to help you. You would have got 20% of
• 1:16:08
  basically all my stuff. So I was like, I was like this
• 1:16:12
  is insane. So I literally just said if they
• 1:16:15
  want to call me, they can call me.
• 1:16:16
  If they don't want to call me then fuck it.
• 1:16:18
  So hung up the phone, never heard from them again.
• 1:16:21
  It was just like cut and dry gone.
• 1:16:24
  And I'm like most people you know, you were.
• 1:16:27
  Just a little. You were just a fucking like not
• 1:16:30
  human to them. Like they don't.
• 1:16:32
  You're just a means to add their piece of shit.
• 1:16:37
  So what I found out was in order for so there's a, there's a
• 1:16:43
  major label like take like Sony or Universal for instance.
• 1:16:45
  I like hate the music industry from.
• 1:16:47
  Everybody Oh, me too. So you take Universal or Sony
• 1:16:51
  under them is a bunch of sub labels.
• 1:16:55
  So like so basically it's like say there's like milk and then
• 1:16:59
  there's like Target milk Shamrock, like kind of like
• 1:17:03
  that. OK, yeah.
• 1:17:04
  So this, the major company has all these small, you know,
• 1:17:09
  brands underneath or labels underneath them.
• 1:17:12
  Well, when you have a label that gets picked up by a major like
• 1:17:14
  that, they give you like, you know, $30 million or some crazy
• 1:17:19
  shit for all your artists. And then you go help make them
• 1:17:22
  more money. Yep.
• 1:17:23
  And so in order for their company, the family that I had
• 1:17:27
  just been with this whole time, they had their own label.
• 1:17:31
  In order for them to get their $30 million check or whatever it
• 1:17:34
  was, they needed three artists. So it didn't matter who the
• 1:17:38
  artist was, it just they just needed three artists so they
• 1:17:41
  could sign it and then boom, they get $30 million and then
• 1:17:43
  whatever. And then they are supposed to
• 1:17:45
  disperse the money to us to then make records and, and do our
• 1:17:49
  job. But they can allot what goes to
• 1:17:52
  us. So we might not get $1,000,000,
• 1:17:55
  we might get $500,000, we might get, you know, we don't know.
• 1:18:00
  So I'm like, so basically you didn't care about the music, you
• 1:18:03
  didn't care about us at all. You just needed to persuade us
• 1:18:06
  enough to sign the contract so that way you could then get your
• 1:18:11
  deal through this major label. So yeah, it was, and, and
• 1:18:17
  afterwards, like I watched like what they were doing like from
• 1:18:21
  a, from, from like a, like a normal person standpoint.
• 1:18:23
  I would like watch their interviews and all kinds of
• 1:18:25
  stuff. And I like, oh, it's so funny.
• 1:18:27
  They have new artists. I'm like, they're just like
• 1:18:30
  looking for the next person so they could get this big deal.
• 1:18:35
  It's not about really developing an artist that they think is
• 1:18:38
  really going to make music to help people.
• 1:18:40
  That's going to be fuck. It's it's it's you're just like
• 1:18:45
  a a mule. Like, like go make music.
• 1:18:48
  And The thing is, is like they'll they'll look for people
• 1:18:51
  that love making music. To be preyed upon, yeah.
• 1:18:55
  But the problem was I I said something instead of just doing
• 1:18:59
  it. So you're dropped because you
• 1:19:02
  are. They're like, oh, he wised up.
• 1:19:04
  On to the next. Yep, because you're aware of.
• 1:19:06
  I it's like happened you didn't exist.
• 1:19:08
  Done next new fresh meat, wide eyed.
• 1:19:11
  Right. Yep.
• 1:19:12
  And it works every time because, you know, they're putting it.
• 1:19:14
  And that's the thing. It's like, yeah, they put me.
• 1:19:16
  But here's the thing. I looked at it like this.
• 1:19:17
  Everyone was like, Oh my God, you're not upset, you're not
• 1:19:20
  sad. I go, bro, they put me in front
• 1:19:23
  of the craziest people and I can tell people.
• 1:19:26
  I worked with Chainsmokers. I was on Netflix and guess what?
• 1:19:28
  My prices just went up. Yeah, and also I didn't fall for
• 1:19:31
  their fucking bullshit. And that kind of like, I'm like,
• 1:19:34
  you know, at the end of the day, they could have if they wanted
• 1:19:41
  to, hey, here's, here's $2.5 million, go make a record.
• 1:19:47
  You, you use that money to make the record however you want.
• 1:19:49
  Go to whatever studio, do whatever you want you.
• 1:19:51
  Pay for studio time, right? Is that the big expense?
• 1:19:55
  Well, the big expense is everything else like, and the
• 1:19:56
  art, buying a house in LA like oh.
• 1:19:59
  Right, because it's it's a project that involves a lot of.
• 1:20:04
  Got it. Yeah.
• 1:20:05
  Oh, oh, by the way, I have to drive around in AG wagon because
• 1:20:07
  I need people to know I'm famous.
• 1:20:08
  Like it's they give you the money and then you do it.
• 1:20:12
  Yep. And so, Oh my gosh, the problem
• 1:20:15
  is most artists will get that money and then they'll fuck off,
• 1:20:18
  and then they'll owe the money back.
• 1:20:20
  And then you never hear from that artist.
• 1:20:21
  But what they also can do is, hey, here's $2.5 million, go
• 1:20:26
  make a record, right? Give us the record and then
• 1:20:30
  we'll tell you when it's put out, right?
• 1:20:31
  Because that's how it works. You give it to them, they have a
• 1:20:33
  release date and everything comes out.
• 1:20:36
  There's a thing called shelving where they will literally you
• 1:20:39
  give them the record and you, you use their money and then
• 1:20:43
  they'll be like, oh, we'll put it out one day and then they put
• 1:20:45
  it away and then you owe them money.
• 1:20:48
  So Julian, thank you so much for sharing your, you know, as a
• 1:20:54
  creative sort of the, the, the things to look out for the as a
• 1:21:00
  business person, anyone in their 20s or anyone in general, like,
• 1:21:05
  you know, everyone's like, oh, you're young and dumb.
• 1:21:07
  Well, no, it sounds like you paid attention to your intuition
• 1:21:10
  and you follow those, right? Follow that.
• 1:21:14
  So we're coming with Part 2. I just decided and you, because
• 1:21:19
  I'm your teacher, you have to you're like, yes, Miss Cooley,
• 1:21:23
  it's fine. And Part 2 will be coming with
• 1:21:27
  some more adversity stories from you, I think.
• 1:21:31
  I think, well, everybody that follows this podcast knows that
• 1:21:35
  it was born out of recovering from narcissistic abuse.
• 1:21:39
  And I am sorry to say that you have experienced that.
• 1:21:44
  Oh yeah. But I'm happy to say.
• 1:21:47
  That I'm out of it. On the next episode, you will be
• 1:21:50
  sharing your story and we're just going to keep keep living
• 1:21:55
  life and sharing our wisdom, right?
• 1:21:57
  Yep. All right, my friend.
• 1:21:59
  Well, thanks for listening to me Babel and until Part 2.
• 1:22:04
  Until Part 2.