Latest / The Strength In Numbers Podcast / EP 31: 12 Lessons on Coaching and Leadership from 10 Elite Coaches

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EP 31: 12 Lessons on Coaching and Leadership from 10 Elite Coaches · The Strength In Numbers Podcast

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Welcome to the Strength in Numbers podcast.
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I'm your host, John Bloom, and today we're diving into 12
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lessons from 10 elite coaches. Now this is going to be
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revisiting some some of the responses of coaches in my book,
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Strength in Numbers in taking ten of those coaches and
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highlighting 12 of the lessons that they shared that were
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really impactful to me that I think going to be really
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impactful to everyone listening here.
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And just to outline what that's going to be.
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We've got Henry Barrera on one of the greatest gifts in life.
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Phil Beckner on why clarity equals high performance and what
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what he teaches his athletes that others don't.
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Alan Bishop on why there is no such thing as balance early in
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your career. Sundance Wix on how he doesn't
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get burned out coaching. Darby Rich with practical tips
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on overcoming struggle, burnout, or overwhelming coaching.
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Anson Dorrance on what Dan Hurley figured out about parents
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that's led to success. Rod Olson, how to build a
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personal Mount Rushmore and why you can't assume resilience in
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anyone. Dan John, I'm building a pirate
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mat for a longer and more impactful life.
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Tom Crean, I'm building the right staff around you.
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And Marissa Young on how she weighs character and talent in
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recruit. Let's dive in.
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So the first, first one we're going to do Henry Barrera men's
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basketball strength of Alabama does a phenomenal job wrote.
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Giving and receiving feedback can be one of the greatest gifts
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in life. It helps us grow.
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We all need feedback. If you want to accelerate your
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growth, ask for feedback. If you want to be elite in your
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field, learn to give feedback in a way that helps people get
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better. I really think that the ability
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to take and give feedback is, is one of the greatest determiners
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of long term development. I, I heard, I heard a really
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interesting story. Craig Grishell was talking with
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Ed Mylett on, on their, on his podcast and he, he told a story
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about how they, when they're interviewing candidates, they'll
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bring in eight candidates. And in the interview, they give
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each of them 5 minutes to give a talk.
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And it's not actually to see like their presentation skills
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or what what they talk on, but it's, but it's actually to see
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their ability to, we give and take feedback because they'll
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have all the candidates give each other feedback and what
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they says it. If they can't give feedback,
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they can't help us. If they can't take it, they
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can't grow. And man, I just think those, I
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just think that statement is so powerful and so true.
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And we need to be so intentional and developing our ability to
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not default to defensive mode, but actually taken feedback and
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apply it along with our ability to better deliver clear feedback
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that actually helps others get better.
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I think one of the common factors between like the coaches
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or people that are at the highest level what they do and
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have actually been able to sustain and have longevity there
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is that they are seeking feedback, seeking new ways of
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doing things, seeking, trying to learn from everybody in the
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building, no matter what role they are in.
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I think you know, when you get to a point where you're just
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relying on past lessons are, or relying on what you know and get
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to a point where you feel like you're above learning from
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certain people, that's when eventually it's going to crash
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and burn. Now from Phil Beckner, high
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level NBA player development coach that works with Damian
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Lillard and many other pros and and also consults into the high
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level job of of helping other coaches and Staffs, He said.
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The second thing we're going to talk about is having clarity on
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what they're doing and why they're doing it, so they know
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what to do, how to do it, and when to do it.
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They have to have absolute clarity because high clarity
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equals high performance, but then high clarity also leads to
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high accountability. Now I can hold them accountable
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and they can hold themselves accountable.
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I think so many people within organizations are trying to
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figure out what's actually expected of them versus
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executing what's asked of them, right?
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And what I mean by that is like, if I, if I have a head, like so
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many staff members are trying to figure out like what they need
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to do to please their head coach and, and what they actually want
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by what they've asked. That they spend so much time
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thinking about that and worrying about stressing, about pleasing
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that coach that their energy is not directed at actually being
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great at what they need to do. I think sometime I think that
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the same can be said from coaches to players where players
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are just in their head, not sure what their coaches wants and,
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and just stressing about that versus just trying to be great
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in the role, be great at what they clearly know they need to
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do. And I and I think that if
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there's no clarity, also like like Phil talks about, you can't
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really hold people accountable because what are we holding them
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accountable to? Right?
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There's no clear direction of what they're supposed to do.
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And, and I think part of that too, is that so many people
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don't actually have clarity of what they actually want out of
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the people they're leading. And you can't give clarity if
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you don't know what you want. So in the first thing is if
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you're if you're leading somebody's, you have to spend
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the time to get clear on what your expectations are people,
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what you need from the role they need to play.
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And they'd be really clear on communicating that.
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And that just allows people to dominate their roles and
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dominate their tasks at such a higher level with directing all
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the energy in the direction need to go for sort of worrying about
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what direction they should go in.
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Now, here's another quote from Phil Beckner.
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And he said everyone thinks it's all about their success and what
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they do great with the best ones I've been around, they could
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take a freaking punch. Championship level boxers.
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Everyone talks about all their knockouts and that they won all
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these rounds with no one talks about Floyd Floyd Mayweather
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went 50 and O do you know how many punches he took, kept
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fighting and didn't lose how many rounds he lost and bounced
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back? The ones I'm around, they lose
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and they get back up, they get punched the next time they get
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swung at, they don't flinch. They know how to embrace the
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punch. That's something people aren't
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talking about enough with the high performers.
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Everyone's preparing them to be successful.
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One thing I prepare my guys to do is fail.
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I think, man, I just think there's a lot of lot of power in
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that, right? Because, and I think especially
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usually within a team, if we're, if we're coaching A-Team, we I
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think sometimes don't push the best players as hard as we're
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doing the ones that it's really clear what they need to get
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better at, especially when those best players are succeeding more
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often. But it's going to be easier for
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them in practice to constantly succeed because in that setting
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they're the best a bet. At some point we're going to
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play better teams, better players, right, Better
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competition. And in those, those high stress,
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high level competition moments, have we prepared them mentally
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for when things go wrong to be able to still get back where
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they need to be? So it's like how in our training
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or practice or workouts, can we can we induce failure, failure
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to those highest, even our high, our best players and get them
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used to experiencing that, but still being able to come back
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and overcome that. So then when we get to the real
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situations, it's not the first time they're experiencing that,
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right? And now they can respond and
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still go get back on track and get back next week.
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Got a quote from Alan Bishop, the men's basketball strength
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coach at Houston. Do an incredible job there.
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He said there will never be another time in your career
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where you'll be more overworked and less appreciated than you
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are in the beginning. There will also never be a time
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in your career where you're as bad at your craft as you are
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right now. And that's OK.
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You're supposed to get better with time.
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That said, embrace it. You aren't the 1st and you won't
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be the last. We've all gone through it.
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Do everything you can to get as many hours on the floor as
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possible coaching, as many hours in front of a computer writing
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programs, and as many hours in front of books and articles
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reading. It only gets harder with time as
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more responsibilities get powered onto your plate.
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Right now you're probably only responsible for yourself, but in
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the future that will likely include a spouse, kids,
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mortgage, etcetera. Dial in now and get as good as
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possible as quickly as possible by committing as much time as
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possible to your craft. There is no such thing as
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balance early in your career if you want to separate yourself
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from the other thousands of coaches wanting the same jobs as
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you, right? This this concept of balance
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that is pushed a lot now, like finding that balance between
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work and in life. And I think that is the goal.
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But I think sometimes it's less about seeking total balance all
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the time and more about working for balance long term in your
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life. And I think most of the time
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that's going to like like coach Bishop's talking about here call
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for going all in early on. I guess throughout life there's
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going to be times to lean into going all in, right?
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Seasons of not having that balance of life.
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And I think that allows you though, to create and build to
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periods of having more freedom or life balance, which you have
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to actually get good to have a chance of that and develop a a
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life resume and a level of experience and reputation of
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work and and results. And I don't know that you can go
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in thinking, OK, I want to have balance in all aspects of my
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life, all periods of my life right away and really get good.
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And I think long term that's actually going to give you less
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balance because I think when you get really good and and do it
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for a while, then that allows certain opportunities and
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freedoms to get that more long term balance.
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Our next lesson is from Sundance Wix, the head men's basketball
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coach at Wyoming, and he says what happens when you do
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something you are not passionate about?
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I don't get burned out because I stay on fire from my vocation.
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If you're doing something because you absolutely love it
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and you have an insane amount of passion for it, then burnout
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doesn't exist. Now, I think lots of factors go
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into burnout, but I find myself seeing more and more truth in
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this. This statement from Coach wakes.
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There are times where too much is too much.
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I do think that, but I think more and more comes down to the
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alignment between your passion and your day-to-day work life.
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Yes, there comes a threshold where it becomes too much work,
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no doubt. But I find when I really love
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what I'm doing, like I'm in full alignment, I have endless energy
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to actually keep doing. Like I can wake up early because
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I want to get to it. I can work on it late at night,
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like I'm only getting pulled away from my work by the things
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I love, like my my wife and friends and family.
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But when I don't have that alignment and it becomes more
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just straight work or just doesn't feel like it's the right
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fit and I have to really like get up for it and I have to
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grind through it, it drains me in a completely different way.
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So yes, there's there's factors of of burnout of too much work
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of many different things, but I think the fit between what
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you're doing and your mindset towards that can drastically
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impact your ability to sustain even with long, long hours.
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Now as as we as we talk about this aspect of burnout, where
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you go to Darby Rich now who's incredible mentor of mine, the
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men's basketball strength at Texas A&M and to the question of
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what do you do to over overcome time to struggle burnout
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overwhelm. He he said this, he said I'm
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probably not the person to turn through for this answer.
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I think it's one of the biggest challenges facing our industry.
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We work long hours. Our job is to be vibrant,
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strong, enthusiastic and consistent in our parents
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attitude and demeanor. We are paid to be the Superman
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and Wonder Woman of our programs.
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When we leave the building, we need to be all those things and
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more for families as well. How do we unplug?
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There's never really an offseason.
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I have no real answers for this question, but I'll offer some
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suggestions. If possible.
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Try to leave winning and losing at the office.
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Be present when you're around your spouse and children.
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Put the phone on the counter and listen to them talk about their
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days. As hard as it is, try to take a
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vacation every year. Don't be the first in the
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building and the last one to leave when it's not completely
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necessary. Get your work done.
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Do the absolute the best job you can for every one of your
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athletes, prepare for the next day and they get the hell out of
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the facility and don't let anyone make you feel guilty for
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doing so. Now Darby isn't just saying this
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stuff like when I worked with him at Texas Tech, I got to
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witness him live it and I still witness it in our conversations,
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right? We'll, we'll talk about
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different job or career decisions.
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And for him, it's always viewed through the lens of how it
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impacts his family. 1st and his quote here pretty much did all
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the explaining and I think is really practical too and a lot
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of those points at the end. So I don't really need to add
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anything besides listen to this man and coach who is one of the
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most experienced coaches out there.
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Next we're going to hear from Anson Dorrance, the former
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soccer coach at North Carolina. All time great.
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Also the first US national women's soccer coach, won over
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20 national championships plus gold medal.
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Absolute coaching legend and and this is him talking about NIL
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recruiting and Dan Hurley at UConn men's basketball.
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He said here's what I what here's what he's figured out.
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If he doesn't coach the parents and find a collection of parents
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that are coachable, he's not going to be able to compete at
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the highest level because what ends up happening is the parents
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end up hijacking appropriate. All of a sudden everything is
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about the minutes their son or daughter gets or their NIL
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money. Before you know it, there are
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all these rampant jealousies within the roster itself.
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Who is he picking? Why do I know this?
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He wants parents that are parents.
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What's a real parent? A real parent has died in
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athletics. That parent died a long time
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ago. Every now and again you can find
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them and apparently you can find a lot of them that have sons
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playing for Dan at the University of Connecticut.
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Who are these parents? These are parents that when
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their son isn't getting playing time, they call the son up and
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say, are you working hard in practice?
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Are you getting it done? Is everything Dan Hurley is
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telling you? Are you absorbing that, taking
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that into your game? This is a real parent.
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The real parent is putting responsibility for playing time
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and performance on the athlete, their son at the University of
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Connecticut. They're creating a culture where
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they're being real parents because a real parent doesn't
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side of the player and start whining about the coach and why
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they're not not getting playing time.
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I think this is a a factor that can be overlooked, but I think
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especially in today, it's becoming more and more
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important. But I've seen at programs the
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influence that parents can have on a program, positively or
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negatively. But I, I feel like I see more
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and more involvement because of now the money and, and, and also
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the ability to transfer where there's now maybe more leverage
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where, you know, if you know, parents can go to a program, but
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hey, like we need XY or Z and if not our kids leaving.
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And I've, I've seen stuff like that, that happening and, and
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just the involvement and if that's allowed to happen at a
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real level where all these parents are involved and it's
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pushing the selfish nature of, of the athletes and creating
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more individualistic division throughout the program, your
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program is toast. And if you allow yourself to be
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handcuffed by the demands of parents, the demands of agents
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and the, the threats of losing players to the portal and all
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that, and, and allow that to your Rd. your standards and
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erode the identity of your program, you're done for.
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And I think I think that coach Dorrance is talking about that,
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that is talking about Dane Hurley of really evaluating the
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parents and how they're going to act and what they're like and
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what their influence will be on both their athlete and the
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program is going to become more and more critical where you
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really have to consider that part of the process while
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recruiting. Next we're going to Rod Olson
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who is an amazing coach of coaches, former football coach,
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now works with top executives, special OPS coaches, all types
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of high level performers. And he said we called building
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your route, Mount Rushmore, who are four people you can call
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anytime, any place, anywhere and they'll take your call and speak
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truth in your life. They won't tell you what you
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want to hear. They're going to tell you what
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you need to hear for your life. They love you more than they
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care about your career. I think the importance of having
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truth tellers in your life cannot be understated.
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We all need people that have high expectations and high
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support for us. Now a lot of a lot of people are
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surrounded by groups that maybe tell them what they want to
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hear, giving them high support, but not holding them to any type
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of real expectation or delivering delivering any real
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truth to them. Others might have people that
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demand everything but give no support to help them along the
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way. You got to build your mountain
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rush with people who expect the world of you, but will also do
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everything they can to help you get there.
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If they expect out of you because they believe in you and
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want to see it happen, not because they're trying to get
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something out of it for themselves or or because they're
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only focused on telling you what you want to hear so that you
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like them. Now, now shifting gears, here's
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here's another quote from Coach Olson.
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He says, think about the Seals. They're the greatest war
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fighters in the planet with arguably the greatest training
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pipeline in the world. It's tried and true.
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It's an 18 month process. It's brutal.
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And the cream only comes out. These are the guys now that are
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killing themselves. There was a guy named Joe Price
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who's a commander over in Afghanistan.
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I've worked with a lot of guys that knew job is and we're
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teammates of his. And I also coached the commander
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that took over for him after he committed suicide.
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I said, hey, what's the story on Joe?
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And he goes, all right, you don't know.
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Job was the poster child for Navy Seals.
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He was the toughest guy. He was the most skilled guy.
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He was a brilliant commander. We all thought he'd be an
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Admiral someday and maybe Medal of Honor.
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He was the guy, Rod. Every time they called him for a
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mission, he took it and he crushed it.
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And so did his team. I go, why did he kill himself?
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He goes exactly, exactly. I asked him, So what's the
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biggest lesson you've learned in all this?
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He answered. We've learned that even with the
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toughest war fighters in the world, with any kind of human,
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you can't assume resilience. I think the great piece of
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advice here for coaches is don't assume resilience.
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Don't assume that you can just keep not showing up at night and
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having your wife or your spouse handle all the little kids.
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Don't assume she's that resilient.
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We've all got our breaking points.
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We all do. I remember when I did, I, I did
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that interview with Coach Olson over the phone as a recording
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for the book man. I just remember being struck by
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that story as, as he told it. And as I think about it right
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now, like, I think it's, I think if we're thinking about coaches,
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it's easy to mark some of our athletes or people around us in
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general as good or, you know, they're, they're tough.
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They have lots going on for them.
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Like, like they're good. Like we don't, we don't
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necessarily need to worry about them or, or check on them as
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much because we feel like they're set.
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You know, things are rolling and, you know, we might feel
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like we need to focus on those other people, those other
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athletes we have that who might be struggling more, have other
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things going on. But I think we need to not allow
18:40
an appearance of stability lead to neglect.
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Because if everyone operates with the same mindset, that
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person now has no one supporting them.
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But we cannot make assumptions when it comes to our Staffs, our
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athletes or our families that they all have a breaking point.
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They all have stuff going underneath, just like all of us
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do. And, you know, I think we've all
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heard it hundreds of times when, when certain people are having
19:03
struggles or have taken their life and everyone's like, like,
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I, I didn't know, like, you know, we, we didn't really know
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it was going on or they were having problems.
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I know I've, I've heard that a lot.
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I'm sure you all have too. So I think it's just a reminder
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that even the people that we think are the toughest, like the
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mentally strong, strongest people there that have things
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going for them, 2 1/2 success. We can't just check them off as
19:28
being good and making that assumption.
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We still need to dig deeper, dig underneath and be there for the
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people around us and really understand what's going on for
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the people around us. Next we're going to go to Dan
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Johns Hall of Fame and incredible all time strength
19:44
coach, and he says I put together a pirate map with all
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the essential things that would help me live a longer and more
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impactful life. The first thing I do is I sit
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down and I say, is this the Dan Jon who Dan Jon said he wanted
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to be kind of a weird sentence, but I said I was going to
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exercise every day. I was going to walk every day.
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I was going to eat vegetables every day, every meal.
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I was going to make a difference.
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I was going to do my To Do List, make the coffee, meditate.
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Did I do those things? Well, no.
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OK, why am I suddenly not doing those things?
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Because of the stress of work. OK, what will help me with my
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stress? Well, if I meditate, if I eat
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better, if I lift weights, if I go for a walk, all those things
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will help me deal with my stress.
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O for me, the first thing is the OI love that from Dan John and
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right, if you've heard of Parkinson's law, it says that
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work expands to fill the time available for its completion.
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And I think if if you have a million things to do, you need
20:35
to still schedule your non negotiables first.
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If not, your work will always expand and make you feel like
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you can't fit it in. Lock those things in, whether
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it's your workouts, yourself, development, reading, walks,
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whatever it is, and then let your work expand and the rest of
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that time available. Operating that mindset over the
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last month for myself has been a game changer.
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And I'm still getting everything I need done right.
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Because before I was like, I had my full time high school job, I
21:00
had business stuff and it's like I was just jumping from thing to
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thing constantly going is like, I don't know that kind of really
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work out or do these other things or read.
21:08
But lately I've been like, OK, at this time each day, this is
21:11
when I get my workout, I'm making sure I'm reading, I'm
21:14
writing, I'm going on walks and I'm I'm making sure I'm doing
21:18
those things every day. And it hasn't made me not get
21:21
what I need done right? Because like Parkinson's Law,
21:24
like I do those things and it's actually made me better mentally
21:28
mental state. And then my work just fills that
21:31
time and I'm still going to get it done.
21:33
OK, So even in the whirlwind of stress that you might be in at
21:39
certain periods, prioritize, prioritizing at some level the
21:42
things that need to be non negotiable in your life is so
21:46
critical and going to help you feel so much better accomplish
21:50
all those things and and actually being in a better state
21:52
to accomplish all those things. Next we go to Tom Crean,
21:55
basketball analyst right now, former men's basketball college
21:59
coach at Georgia Marquette, Indiana.
22:02
And he said Staffs energize each other.
22:04
I say all the time, hire people that bring energy and hire
22:07
people you can be around on a three-game losing streak.
22:10
Anybody can be around somebody on a winning streak.
22:12
Anybody can be excited on any given day after a win.
22:15
When it's not going well and it's hard, that's when you've
22:18
got to have people that can energize you.
22:20
My best Staffs had that, but I also had some Staffs that
22:23
couldn't do that. I had Staffs where I made
22:24
mistakes and they didn't do that.
22:26
When we were building Indiana, we for sure had that.
22:29
We were able to bring the best out of each other.
22:31
We read when others were having a bad day, including the head
22:34
coach, I think. I think this applies to both
22:38
building your staff if you're the one hiring, but also taking
22:40
a job and who you choose to work for when you get to a place
22:43
where you can be a little more selective.
22:45
But it's, I mean, the staff just so important because that is
22:48
literally your day to days when, when you're really ingrained
22:50
with that staff, like you're spending so much time with them
22:53
and the way they operate and the energy they bring is going to
22:58
determine a lot of of your life. And, and how you, I think how
23:02
you view things, the energy that's getting put out towards
23:05
you and the environment you're you're operating in day-to-day
23:09
before. Like when we talked about Mount
23:11
our Mount Rushmore and the people we want to be able to
23:16
call, you know, I think we want to build the people that are
23:21
actually directly in our life for for, you know, most hours a
23:26
day to have some of those same qualities where they're pouring
23:30
into us. They believe us, they support us
23:32
and have high expectations for us.
23:34
And I think when a staff has that where we're all pushing
23:36
each other to do such a good job and be great for each other in
23:41
the program, but also believing and supporting each other in
23:44
that you're going to accomplish some incredible things.
23:47
But when it's the other way, where it's individuals just
23:50
working or there's individuals that are constantly negative and
23:54
emotionally not stable through the ups and downs of the season.
23:59
And it just the wins and losses that which are going to come are
24:02
dictating the environment of the staff in the building you work
24:05
in. It makes life much harder than
24:08
having that group locked in supporting, believing each other
24:12
and constantly trying to hold each other to a high standard
24:14
expectation. And so I think choosing the
24:17
staff you're going to be around and operate in and live your
24:20
life, that your day-to-day is one of the most crucial things.
24:24
The last coach we're going to hear from is Marissa Young, the
24:27
head softball coach at Duke University, doing an amazing job
24:30
and having built that program to an incredible level.
24:34
And and the question of how do you weigh character and talent
24:37
when recruiting outfits to your program?
24:39
She said if you divide into a pie, the biggest chunk of the
24:42
pie are the kids that have the athleticism, the character and
24:44
the grit all together. Then you're going to have some
24:46
others that you're taking a chance on, maybe really high
24:49
character, but less talent. You have some of that are some
24:52
that are really talented, but you're going to have to keep the
24:54
guardrails on them to keep them in line.
24:56
It's definitely a balance. You can have a few that fall
24:59
into each of these categories as long as you have a really strong
25:01
core that you know is going to hold the less talented, the wild
25:04
ones towards the middle. I think this is a great
25:07
framework from Coach Young here, and I just think there's such a
25:11
need to be targeted in roster building considering not only
25:15
how plain styles and positional needs fit together, but also how
25:20
do personality types and character types fit together in
25:23
your culture. 1 + 1 does not always equal 2 with rosters.
25:27
It could add up to be 3, but it could also add up to be -3 so
25:32
understanding the personalities you're bringing in, the
25:37
character skills and how that impacts potential both for the
25:41
individual and the program. Beyond looking at just
25:44
athleticism and and maybe talent for potential and really being
25:48
targeted with all those factors with who you feel you can bring
25:52
in, I think is the people that are doing the best.
25:57
I think they're doing these things right.
25:59
I think you see even more now with these these basketball and
26:03
and football programs that are having just straight GM roles
26:08
and just people really doing the evaluating are are really
26:13
considering more and more things than just maybe you know,
26:18
recruiting rankings or stars. OK, so that was our, our 12
26:22
lessons from those 10 elite coaches.
26:25
I know even just going back and looking through these things
26:27
and, and thinking about these is impactful to me.
26:30
And, and just really cool to see the the different perspectives
26:33
and just wisdom from from all these coaches that are doing it
26:37
or doing it the highest level. And been doing it for a long
26:40
time and figured a lot of things out And getting to learn from
26:44
that, at least for myself, is just such a, such a blessing and
26:50
really, really cool. And I hope, I hope you took a
26:52
lot from these lessons. I, I'm grateful for you tuning
26:56
in again and listening to this episode of the Strengthen
26:58
Numbers podcast. And I will catch you next week
27:00
with our next episode.