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When a Diagnosis Changes Your Life · Groove with Portia

0:07
Speaker 1: Welcome to Guru Portia, the podcast that uncovers the hidden
0:10
Speaker 1: treasures within grief. I'm your host, Portia, the producer, and
0:13
Speaker 1: I'm inviting you to join me on a transformative journey
0:16
Speaker 1: where we will exchange laughter. Of course, the best medicine
0:19
Speaker 1: of them all. Reflect on cherished memories. Remember that time
0:22
Speaker 1: that the little boy grabbed my hand instead of his
0:24
Speaker 1: mother's at the amusement park?
0:25
Speaker 2: Yikes.
0:26
Speaker 1: And of course, discover gratitude while navigating one of life's
0:30
Speaker 1: hardest challenges, loss. So get ready to grew with me, Portia,
0:34
Speaker 1: the producer. Let's dive in. Hello everybody and welcome back
0:47
Speaker 1: to Groove with Portia. I am your host, Portia Booker.
0:49
Speaker 1: And as always, don't forget to like, share, and subscribe
0:52
Speaker 1: to keep up with all things Groove with Portia. So
0:55
Speaker 1: I just mentioned that I just got back from a
0:57
Speaker 1: long road trip, 12 hours on the road, but hey,
1:00
Speaker 1: you know, I still show up anyway, right? Even though
1:02
Speaker 1: I'm a little bit tired because I was in a
1:04
Speaker 1: little bit of a different time zone, but that's all good, right?
1:07
Speaker 1: We still do the best that we can. We still
1:09
Speaker 1: show up in all the great things. So one of
1:12
Speaker 1: the things that I often like to talk about is
1:14
Speaker 1: how I love that people take the time to go
1:18
Speaker 1: for a second opinion, right? And I think I talked
1:21
Speaker 1: about this, those of you who listened to my episode
1:23
Speaker 1: and interview with Carlica Bass Knight Menendez about menopause. how
1:27
Speaker 1: there tends to be sometimes this level of not exactly
1:31
Speaker 1: up to par care when it comes to menopause. So
1:34
Speaker 1: sometimes you have to go for a second opinion. Sometimes
1:37
Speaker 1: you have to go for maybe a fourth and fifth
1:39
Speaker 1: until you find that right balance. answer that feels good
1:43
Speaker 1: for you and that right treatment plan. And so for
1:46
Speaker 1: those of us who have been in the mental health space,
1:48
Speaker 1: those of you who know my mental health story, I
1:51
Speaker 1: was one of those individuals who had been diagnosed after
1:55
Speaker 1: a five-minute meeting with a psychiatrist, and I just wasn't
2:00
Speaker 1: buying it. I wasn't buying what they were telling me.
2:03
Speaker 1: I wasn't buying the treatment plan that they had assigned
2:07
Speaker 1: for me. But of course, a lot of us, what
2:09
Speaker 1: do we do, right? We're in fear, we're in panic,
2:12
Speaker 1: and we just want to feel better immediately. But I
2:15
Speaker 1: wish that there was somebody who was there who would
2:19
Speaker 1: have told me that there were other options available. So
2:23
Speaker 1: today I have a special treat for all of you.
2:26
Speaker 1: We're going to be joined by an individual who was
2:29
Speaker 1: in the same boat as me, but now also sits
2:32
Speaker 1: on the legal end to help advocate for better mental
2:37
Speaker 1: health treatment, to empower you as individuals to not just settle.
2:43
Speaker 1: but to take the next step to ask that question
2:46
Speaker 1: and to advocate for yourself. So welcome to Grew Up Portia, Ms.
2:50
Speaker 1: Ellen Lubinsky. Ellen, how are you today?
2:53
Speaker 2: I'm doing really well. Thank you so much for having me.
2:55
Speaker 2: I greatly appreciate it.
2:57
Speaker 1: Ellen, I couldn't wait to have this conversation because I
3:00
Speaker 1: think in the world today, there's a lot of information
3:03
Speaker 1: out there as me and you both know, whether it's
3:05
Speaker 1: on Reddit, on social media about... the different treatment options
3:10
Speaker 1: for people to take, whether it's medication, whether it's Reiki,
3:15
Speaker 1: whether it's tapping. But I think sometimes what happens is
3:19
Speaker 1: we're in that boat of survival where we want that
3:25
Speaker 1: immediate answer. We want to feel better. We want to
3:27
Speaker 1: get back to our normal day to day. And Ellen,
3:31
Speaker 1: just for our audience who's tuning in, before we really
3:35
Speaker 1: dive into what you do, Before you became this patient's
3:40
Speaker 1: right advocate, right? Because you were in the same boat
3:43
Speaker 1: as me. You were trusting in the professionals who said, hey,
3:47
Speaker 1: you had this diagnosis. Here's what we can do for you.
3:52
Speaker 1: Can you take me back to the beginning, Ellen? What
3:55
Speaker 1: did you believe was happening to you? And what were
3:59
Speaker 1: you being told at that time that may have not
4:02
Speaker 1: been in alignment with what you really believed?
4:06
Speaker 2: So At age 20, I was at Stanford University. I
4:13
Speaker 2: believe I had autistic meltdown with high anxiety. I had
4:17
Speaker 2: a friend who gave me one pill of Ativan, I
4:20
Speaker 2: believe it was, a benzo, diazepine. And strange things happened.
4:25
Speaker 2: Student health did not know what to do with me.
4:28
Speaker 2: So they hospitalized me for one night for a psychiatric hospitalization.
4:32
Speaker 2: My mother flew in and we got what we thought
4:35
Speaker 2: were the best of the best involved. And the best
4:38
Speaker 2: of the best said very, very quickly, bipolar one antipsychotics.
4:46
Speaker 2: And this was, you know, we trusted. We trusted what
4:49
Speaker 2: we believed to be the best of the best, like
4:52
Speaker 2: so many people do. And I bought two skirts at
4:55
Speaker 2: Ross for under $ 100. And that is in my records
4:58
Speaker 2: as a buying spree. No, I was labeled. I was
5:03
Speaker 2: labeled for a lifetime. It is very difficult to get
5:06
Speaker 2: rid of that label.
5:09
Speaker 1: Wow. I mean, just Ellen, I'm kind of laughing because
5:15
Speaker 1: that is the same story as me. I mean, literally, you.
5:19
Speaker 2: Just have to laugh, you know, I mean, sitting in
5:21
Speaker 2: your sadness, you know, there's a point at which you
5:23
Speaker 2: just have to go for the positive.
5:25
Speaker 1: Because I remember I was kind of told the same
5:28
Speaker 1: thing about the splurging. I think I went, I needed
5:31
Speaker 1: new clothes for work. I'd started a new job and
5:36
Speaker 1: some of my clothes just wouldn't fit the bill. No
5:39
Speaker 1: pun intended. And $ 100.
5:41
Speaker 2: This is not a shopping spree. Yeah.
5:45
Speaker 1: I'd understand.
5:47
Speaker 2: What?
5:47
Speaker 1: A thousand dollars on, I'd say four coach purses. Okay.
5:51
Speaker 2: Yeah. That's different.
5:53
Speaker 1: But two skirts and then just the diagnosis, right. From
5:59
Speaker 1: the top of the top. And as you mentioned, it's
6:03
Speaker 1: hard to get that removed from your record because there's
6:07
Speaker 1: a stigma.
6:08
Speaker 2: There is. I actually have had it changed in some, my,
6:11
Speaker 2: I mean, I've had many providers say that I'm like,
6:13
Speaker 2: you know, who cares? I've had, I have had it
6:15
Speaker 2: changed in some of my records and it will have
6:17
Speaker 2: a neuropsych. No, I mean, neurodivergent, many people are neurodivergent,
6:21
Speaker 2: you know, It's not something that's a big deal.
6:25
Speaker 1: And I often wondered about that too, Ellen, especially as
6:29
Speaker 1: you begin to mature us as women, we have different
6:33
Speaker 1: hormonal things that shift. And to me, that sometimes can
6:38
Speaker 1: also change. fall under like what I brought up with
6:41
Speaker 1: the menopause thing, right? Where menopause sets in that also
6:46
Speaker 1: alters how you feel throughout the day. You know, you
6:49
Speaker 1: might have to carry your own little personal fan type
6:52
Speaker 1: of thing. Yeah.
6:53
Speaker 2: Whatever works for you to get through it.
6:55
Speaker 1: Yeah. Ellen, you know, something else I think about too
6:59
Speaker 1: is you described your experience as involving long-term antipsychotic injury
7:06
Speaker 1: and prolonged withdrawal, right?
7:08
Speaker 2: Yeah.
7:09
Speaker 1: I'm curious, when did you begin first questioning whether what
7:14
Speaker 1: you were experiencing was indeed what you were experiencing, as
7:20
Speaker 1: in the withdrawals from possibly treatment or the medication, or
7:24
Speaker 1: if this was possibly, like you mentioned, something on the
7:28
Speaker 1: neurodivergent end from the beginning?
7:31
Speaker 2: So at age... 45 or so, I set boundaries with
7:35
Speaker 2: my psychiatrist and said, I want to try to get
7:37
Speaker 2: off of antipsychotics. I had a blue hang tight, permanent disability.
7:42
Speaker 2: I was zero chance of recovery. And I had my miracle.
7:46
Speaker 2: I recovered to neurological baseline from 20 years of disabling
7:50
Speaker 2: part of dystonia. And no, I thought this was terrific.
7:55
Speaker 2: I was doing ballet, doing all the things I could
7:57
Speaker 2: not for so long, but she took me off of
8:00
Speaker 2: antipsychotics in six months. which is way too quickly. And
8:04
Speaker 2: I became a complete insomniac on the last night of
8:08
Speaker 2: my bad paper off of antipsychotics. I held out a month. Luckily,
8:12
Speaker 2: at work, there was nothing critical I had to do
8:16
Speaker 2: that month. And she urged me to go back on antipsychotics.
8:20
Speaker 2: I said, no way. I just recovered from disability due
8:23
Speaker 2: to antipsychotics. She told me, she urged me to take benzodiazepine.
8:28
Speaker 2: She said high dose benzos, no issues, no problems. And
8:33
Speaker 2: I trusted her. I believe I was up to five
8:36
Speaker 2: milligrams of Ativan, which is a lot. No, who do
8:40
Speaker 2: you trust? I trusted the person who had been my
8:43
Speaker 2: provider for 25 years. No, it's not my fault. The
8:47
Speaker 2: warning is two to four weeks or it may cause
8:50
Speaker 2: physical dependency. Who am I to say whether I am
8:54
Speaker 2: the one who become physically dependent? I became physically dependent
8:58
Speaker 2: very quickly.
9:01
Speaker 1: Wow i mean that that's a lot i mean because
9:04
Speaker 1: i think especially if you're someone who's not accustomed to
9:08
Speaker 1: taking anything i mean five milligrams of something like that
9:14
Speaker 1: could easily have you crippled.
9:17
Speaker 2: No yeah i mean i'm very lucky that i have
9:19
Speaker 2: physicians who trust me And no, I just created a
9:22
Speaker 2: nonprofit that advocates for everybody to have a physician who
9:26
Speaker 2: trusts them. No, I'm not an addict. I've never misused
9:29
Speaker 2: a substance. And so many people do not have a
9:33
Speaker 2: doctor who trusts them. And they have to lie to
9:36
Speaker 2: their doctors to get off psychiatric medications, which can be
9:39
Speaker 2: incredibly dangerous. And it is a very unfortunate dynamic.
9:44
Speaker 1: And Ellen- Can you share a little bit? We're going
9:47
Speaker 1: to pivot a little bit here. Please share with our
9:49
Speaker 1: audience about your nonprofit and how can people really start
9:53
Speaker 1: to build that sense of trust with the physician? Because
9:58
Speaker 1: this is a partnership, right? And I think there's this
10:01
Speaker 1: notion of us against them, but we're working together. So
10:08
Speaker 1: share with us about your nonprofit and what can people do?
10:11
Speaker 2: Right. It's called the mental health choice project.org. You know,
10:15
Speaker 2: I have a, have a board. This is very transparent.
10:17
Speaker 2: My family put in the initial findings. because it is
10:20
Speaker 2: what my dream is to help spread awareness. And so
10:26
Speaker 2: I urge people to ask questions. If one provider is
10:30
Speaker 2: not right for you, there are almost always another provider.
10:34
Speaker 2: You have choices. You can say no. For so long,
10:38
Speaker 2: I thought I had to say yes to every provider
10:41
Speaker 2: who said, no, there's so many people in the service
10:43
Speaker 2: industry who come to me and say, here's a service.
10:46
Speaker 2: You're wonderful. I say, oh, okay, I'll pay you more.
10:51
Speaker 2: And this has been my pattern. And I'm trying, you know,
10:53
Speaker 2: people in the service industry deserve to be paid what
10:55
Speaker 2: they're worth. But, you know, I've been paying people who,
11:00
Speaker 2: you know, have said good things about me. I urge
11:04
Speaker 2: people to bring a family member or a friend into
11:07
Speaker 2: an appointment with them. I now have my best friend
11:10
Speaker 2: who's more involved to make certain that I make decisions
11:13
Speaker 2: in my wise mind. I think it's very important to
11:16
Speaker 2: have family or friends involved when you go to an
11:18
Speaker 2: appointment because so many people are urged to make decisions quickly.
11:24
Speaker 2: And that is highly unfortunate that you know, you're in
11:29
Speaker 2: a medical appointment and the doctor says, here are your options. No,
11:32
Speaker 2: I really want to get this over with quickly. Really
11:35
Speaker 2: you can for almost anything, you know, cancer included, you
11:40
Speaker 2: can take a little break generally and say, I want to,
11:45
Speaker 2: decide whether I want chemo tomorrow or the next day
11:48
Speaker 2: and think about it. There's emergent circumstances for certain, but
11:52
Speaker 2: most of the time you can take a pause. And
11:55
Speaker 2: I think that learning to take a pause is something
11:57
Speaker 2: that is very important.
12:00
Speaker 1: And that pause is essential, Ellen, because you're right. When
12:04
Speaker 1: you're being flooded with, well, here's option A, B, C,
12:08
Speaker 1: and D, And you're trying to, first of all, comprehend
12:13
Speaker 1: what the doctor just told you, whether you have stage
12:16
Speaker 1: four pancreatic cancer or you have breast cancer, your mind
12:20
Speaker 1: is trying to first wrap around.
12:23
Speaker 2: Right.
12:23
Speaker 1: How did this happen? what I've been taking all these precautions,
12:27
Speaker 1: I've been eating right, all these things. So what the heck,
12:29
Speaker 1: what did I miss?
12:31
Speaker 2: Exactly.
12:32
Speaker 1: And now I'm being posed with kind of an ultimatum
12:36
Speaker 1: a little bit because you're, you know, you either take
12:40
Speaker 1: option A, B, C, and D, and then it's an
12:43
Speaker 1: immediate response that they're expecting when you need time to
12:47
Speaker 1: pause and really digest what feels right for you. Exactly.
12:52
Speaker 2: And too many times, I have felt pressured to make
12:55
Speaker 2: that decision in an instant and it has not been advantageous.
12:58
Speaker 2: And now I know, no. N-O is such an important
13:02
Speaker 2: word for anybody to learn when they're dealing with the
13:05
Speaker 2: mental health or any doctors at all. You can use
13:08
Speaker 2: the word no.
13:10
Speaker 1: And no is a complete sentence, people. Remember that. N-O.
13:14
Speaker 1: Or like my mentor used to say, no means next opportunity.
13:18
Speaker 2: So any provider who takes offense... No, you should always,
13:23
Speaker 2: any provider who takes offense that you say, I don't
13:25
Speaker 2: think you're the right person, that's not the right provider.
13:28
Speaker 2: Because any provider, no, you should have choices as a therapist.
13:33
Speaker 2: If a therapist doesn't like the fact that you're looking
13:36
Speaker 2: into other people, that's a red flag.
13:39
Speaker 1: Okay. Say that again. I'm curious, Ellen, too. When you
13:43
Speaker 1: mentioned bringing a family member or friend with you to
13:46
Speaker 1: an appointment, I'm sure that obviously in your medical record,
13:50
Speaker 1: there's obviously HIPAA. Do you recommend, too, that they list
13:53
Speaker 1: this person or a couple of different people? Because, you know,
13:58
Speaker 1: sometimes that stuff gets messy.
14:01
Speaker 2: It does get messy. I mean, it's up to the
14:03
Speaker 2: individual person to make that decision. Right. it's up to
14:08
Speaker 2: your own comfort level with having your records disclosed. I
14:11
Speaker 2: am public beyond comprehension. So for me, my records, it's
14:16
Speaker 2: not something I am particularly concerned about. If you are
14:19
Speaker 2: concerned about it, yes, you need to be more careful.
14:22
Speaker 2: But having an emergency contact of a friend, if for
14:26
Speaker 2: some reason you're not able to make a decision in
14:28
Speaker 2: your mind, having your physician have an emergency contact for you,
14:33
Speaker 2: I think is very important. Because there might be a
14:36
Speaker 2: point at which you are not able to make a
14:38
Speaker 2: decision in your wise mind.
14:41
Speaker 1: Yeah. And some people shut down when they're given a
14:45
Speaker 1: diagnosis or devastating news. They need someone there to support
14:50
Speaker 1: them to say, hey, let's let's step out of the room.
14:54
Speaker 1: Let's go home. Let's sit down. We can address it
14:58
Speaker 1: another time. Ellen, before we continue with the conversation, for
15:01
Speaker 1: our audience who's tuning in, if they want to obviously
15:04
Speaker 1: connect with you, if they want to get involved with
15:06
Speaker 1: your nonprofit, if you have any upcoming events that people
15:10
Speaker 1: can come and see you, how can our audience connect
15:12
Speaker 1: with you, Ellen?
15:13
Speaker 2: Okay. I have a professional website, ellenlubensky.com, where I have
15:18
Speaker 2: numerous podcasts and my articles. Feel free to message me there.
15:22
Speaker 2: I post publicly on six platforms of social media. I
15:26
Speaker 2: currently do one live on LinkedIn, one on Facebook, two
15:29
Speaker 2: on TikTok, and one on YouTube a week. And feel
15:32
Speaker 2: free to private message me. I can offer any support
15:35
Speaker 2: that I can within boundaries. And also, my website for
15:42
Speaker 2: my charity is TheMentalHealthChoiceProject.org. I'm working on a memoir. And
15:48
Speaker 2: I want to tell everybody they can ask questions.
15:51
Speaker 1: Well, Ellen, please let us know when that memoir comes out.
15:55
Speaker 1: We'll definitely have you back on the show to do
15:57
Speaker 1: a full author interview. And for our audience, if you
16:00
Speaker 1: want to connect with Ellen, as she mentioned, her professional website,
16:04
Speaker 1: you can also, if you forget, you can do a
16:06
Speaker 1: probably AI search of who Ellen is and all the things. Yeah,
16:10
Speaker 1: ChatGPT will tell.
16:10
Speaker 2: You who I am. I overuse ChatGPT. I freely admit it.
16:16
Speaker 1: There you go. So if you forget, use ChatGPT, Perplexity,
16:19
Speaker 1: whichever AI software helps with your day-to-day operations. Ellen, something
16:26
Speaker 1: I want to touch on is the word informed consent.
16:31
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of misconception about what informed
16:35
Speaker 1: consent actually is. And I'm curious, Ellen, for our audience,
16:40
Speaker 1: what does informed consent actually mean? And what do you
16:43
Speaker 1: believe patients should understand before agreeing to not just any
16:48
Speaker 1: type of psychiatric treatment, but healthcare treatment overall?
16:53
Speaker 2: Exactly. So informed consent does not mean getting a piece
16:57
Speaker 2: of paper or with your prescription that says there are
17:00
Speaker 2: things that may happen. Truly informed consent means having a
17:04
Speaker 2: sit-down with your doctor where you discuss the risks. And
17:11
Speaker 2: if a doctor, you know, that piece of paper, it
17:13
Speaker 2: doesn't list all the risks. And it says may. How
17:16
Speaker 2: am I to know, as a non-medical professional, whether that
17:20
Speaker 2: risk will happen to me? It is something no... I
17:26
Speaker 2: now ask questions. And if anybody doesn't give you the
17:29
Speaker 2: time to allow you to ask questions, that's an issue.
17:33
Speaker 2: That's a serious issue.
17:37
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think you hit the nail
17:40
Speaker 1: on the head, Ellen, because I think so many people
17:44
Speaker 1: are under this notion that informed consent is transparent consent, right?
17:50
Speaker 1: But it's really not. There's multiple layers. And I'm not
17:55
Speaker 1: going to go into that today because we can probably
17:57
Speaker 1: do a whole episode on the different types of consent
18:01
Speaker 1: forms within the healthcare ecosystem that a lot of people
18:06
Speaker 1: are not aware of what they're signing.
18:09
Speaker 2: Exactly. That's another issue. A doctor will put in front
18:12
Speaker 2: of somebody who may not read the whole piece of
18:16
Speaker 2: paper and or be able to understand what they're writing
18:20
Speaker 2: and you sign off on it and the doctor says, oh,
18:22
Speaker 2: I got informed consent. That's not true informed consent. If
18:26
Speaker 2: there's no conversation and there's no indication that the patient
18:30
Speaker 2: understands what was signed. Right.
18:34
Speaker 1: I mean, and now you see that they have that
18:36
Speaker 1: little tablet looking thing and they have a piece of
18:40
Speaker 1: paper in front of you that says whatever the informed
18:44
Speaker 1: consent language is. But you don't really know what you're signing. Exactly.
18:50
Speaker 2: I mean, it's so much lingo. I mean, for a
18:53
Speaker 2: non-medical professional to digest that, you really need a conversation
18:57
Speaker 2: with a provider to explain it to you.
18:59
Speaker 1: Well, I think, Ellen, you said it best that, you know,
19:02
Speaker 1: no is a complete sentence, especially if you're not feeling comfortable.
19:07
Speaker 1: If this is too much for you, the importance of
19:11
Speaker 1: having an advocate literally in the room with you, especially
19:15
Speaker 1: now as health care continues to evolve. Obviously, there is
19:20
Speaker 1: lots of different conversations, especially now about mental health care
19:24
Speaker 1: and what that looks like, what treatments are appropriate, you know,
19:29
Speaker 1: and I'm not even going to throw into the mix,
19:32
Speaker 1: you know, different people who are advocating for end of
19:35
Speaker 1: life options, right? That makes it a whole nother conversation, right?
19:41
Speaker 2: End of life options when you're not necessarily completely there
19:44
Speaker 2: to discuss what end of life options that's a very
19:47
Speaker 2: different a very different story but you know my best
19:50
Speaker 2: friend is now more involved and she knows when i
19:52
Speaker 2: have a doctor's appointment and she knows what the doctor
19:55
Speaker 2: has said so i say i'm going to the doctor
19:59
Speaker 2: today here's what he suggested does this sound right to
20:02
Speaker 2: you am i making a decision in my wise mind
20:06
Speaker 2: so many times this year i have made people have
20:09
Speaker 2: offered me miracles. And I've said, oh, great, here's my miracle.
20:14
Speaker 2: And I have paid them in a second without pausing.
20:18
Speaker 1: So now I pause.
20:19
Speaker 2: And then that, you know, my lesson learned, but you
20:21
Speaker 2: can't think about the past all the time. I advocate
20:25
Speaker 2: for people to report psychiatrists because as all doctors, psychiatrists
20:30
Speaker 2: do make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes and they should be
20:33
Speaker 2: held accountable for their mistakes.
20:35
Speaker 1: And it's important to use your voice. A closed mouth
20:38
Speaker 1: doesn't get fed. And as I mentioned in the beginning,
20:42
Speaker 1: it's okay to get a second opinion. And sometimes it
20:45
Speaker 1: might be a third and fourth.
20:47
Speaker 2: Exactly. And if the first one doesn't feel comfortable with you,
20:51
Speaker 2: that N-O word is always available.
20:54
Speaker 1: Exactly.
20:55
Speaker 2: Exactly.
20:55
Speaker 1: Ellen, you know, I'm curious for you, when you think
21:00
Speaker 1: over the span of all these years that you have
21:04
Speaker 1: had to endure some of the, I hate to say it, chaos,
21:08
Speaker 1: that people walk through. Our stories are very similar. That's
21:11
Speaker 1: why I'm laughing. This is so wild that I would
21:15
Speaker 1: meet another person who has the same story as me.
21:17
Speaker 1: And for me, this happened 10 years ago.
21:19
Speaker 2: And 29 years ago for me. Wow.
21:24
Speaker 1: So Ellen, for you, I'm curious, was there grief involved
21:30
Speaker 1: when you think about all of the years that you've
21:35
Speaker 1: had to walk through the This cyclone is what I'm
21:39
Speaker 1: going to call it.
21:40
Speaker 2: So at first, you know, I was jumping for joy.
21:43
Speaker 2: And the thing is, many friends are with you. I found,
21:46
Speaker 2: you know, who true friends are this year. They're with
21:48
Speaker 2: me when things are really good. When I recovered and
21:52
Speaker 2: I had my first article about my miracle recovery, everybody
21:55
Speaker 2: was there for me. And they're like terrific. But when
21:58
Speaker 2: I start, no, I really admit I became intermittently suicidal
22:02
Speaker 2: when I filed my lawsuit. And then people don't know
22:06
Speaker 2: what to say. I have lost many friends and figured
22:10
Speaker 2: out who my good friends are when they're there for
22:13
Speaker 2: you in the bad times as well as the good times.
22:16
Speaker 2: I advocate for 988 to be a number you can call.
22:20
Speaker 2: That's not going to be an automatic commitment to a
22:23
Speaker 2: psychiatric hospital. Because I've always been scared. I would do
22:28
Speaker 2: anything to avoid a psychiatric hospital. And I think there
22:32
Speaker 2: are so many people who are very scared of psychiatric
22:34
Speaker 2: hospitals because I don't believe they're very therapeutic. I believe
22:38
Speaker 2: that mental health is very important, but that psychiatric hospitals
22:41
Speaker 2: are not the answer. I encourage people that 988 is
22:46
Speaker 2: a number that you can call. And that's one of
22:48
Speaker 2: the things that my nonprofit wants to discuss is that
22:52
Speaker 2: 988 operators should have basic awareness about what psychiatric medication
22:57
Speaker 2: withdrawal is and also what not to catastrophize. If you
23:02
Speaker 2: can assure somebody that you are safe, they should not
23:06
Speaker 2: call 911 on you. There are so many people who
23:09
Speaker 2: are reluctant to call 988. In my experience, if I
23:13
Speaker 2: say I looked at the jar of Valium or I
23:16
Speaker 2: looked at the knives and I can assure the person
23:18
Speaker 2: that I have a therapist and that I am safe,
23:22
Speaker 2: these are momentary thoughts that resolve very quickly. And I
23:27
Speaker 2: think that there are so many people who are afraid
23:29
Speaker 2: to call 988 because they're afraid that the police will arrive.
23:34
Speaker 2: And I think that that is, you know, it is
23:35
Speaker 2: a number that we have for a reason.
23:39
Speaker 1: Well, and I think too, Ellen, I appreciate your vulnerability
23:43
Speaker 1: because suicide is so stigmatized. for so many people and
23:49
Speaker 1: people don't realize I can, I can say honestly for
23:51
Speaker 1: me after my mom died, the thoughts came like rapid
23:55
Speaker 1: fire for me after my mom died. And I mean,
23:58
Speaker 1: I'm very grateful today that I have a team of
24:01
Speaker 1: people who know when I start to struggle, I can
24:05
Speaker 1: text them and say, Hey, whatever. And they'll call me
24:09
Speaker 1: and we'll talk about it, you know, but in the
24:11
Speaker 1: beginning I didn't because I didn't feel that sense of
24:14
Speaker 1: safety and I didn't feel that sense of I could
24:17
Speaker 1: trust anybody because so many people like with you, Ellen
24:21
Speaker 1: had let me down. They put the shiny dangling carrot
24:24
Speaker 1: in front of me, or also in your case to
24:28
Speaker 1: the different people that made their exit because I was
24:31
Speaker 1: too much.
24:32
Speaker 2: Right.
24:33
Speaker 1: But, but we're the ones.
24:35
Speaker 2: No, I freely admit I've overshared this year. There's so
24:38
Speaker 2: many people who have said, reach out whenever, and then,
24:40
Speaker 2: you know, they're, they're, they're taking care of themselves and, and,
24:45
Speaker 2: So I feel very much alone. Something like 54% of
24:49
Speaker 2: people in benzodiazepine withdrawal have suicidal ideation. People don't know
24:55
Speaker 2: that the little pills that they're canning out can cause
24:59
Speaker 2: you to become suicidal.
25:00
Speaker 1: This is something I think.
25:02
Speaker 2: That people should be aware of before they're giving their
25:05
Speaker 2: children a psychiatric medication. If they work for you, I
25:09
Speaker 2: have no issues with that. But you should know that
25:13
Speaker 2: this pill could cause you to have bad thoughts.
25:18
Speaker 1: Yeah.
25:18
Speaker 2: Yeah.
25:19
Speaker 1: I mean, the transparency needs to be there more, right?
25:23
Speaker 1: Where there is not this continuous, I have to keep
25:27
Speaker 1: shuffling between doctors because I don't trust my therapist. I
25:31
Speaker 1: don't trust the provider who's prescribing these. I don't even
25:34
Speaker 1: trust my primary care doctor because it seems that no
25:37
Speaker 1: one's on the same page.
25:39
Speaker 2: I'm very transparent with my current doctor who knows that
25:42
Speaker 2: I have bad thoughts when I filed a lawsuit and
25:48
Speaker 2: I went down mentally when I filed the lawsuit because
25:51
Speaker 2: being in a lawsuit is very, very, very, very stressful.
25:56
Speaker 2: And there are so many people who would never tell
25:58
Speaker 2: their provider that they had bad thoughts, that they looked
26:02
Speaker 2: at their jar of Valium. And when you sit with that,
26:05
Speaker 2: it makes it far worse. because people do not trust
26:09
Speaker 2: their providers. And I think that everybody should have a
26:11
Speaker 2: provider that they trust to not commit them and to
26:15
Speaker 2: not overreact.
26:18
Speaker 1: Well, the provider should have that same amount of investment
26:23
Speaker 1: in you as you're paying for their services. It needs
26:27
Speaker 1: to be a team effort and reciprocity across the board. Well, Ellen,
26:34
Speaker 1: this has been a fantastic conversation. I thank you so
26:37
Speaker 1: much for coming on the show. This concludes our conversation
26:41
Speaker 1: on Group with Portia. And that was Miss Ellen Lubinsky
26:44
Speaker 1: that you heard from. You can connect with her on
26:47
Speaker 1: all platforms. If you forget what her website is and
26:50
Speaker 1: the initiatives that she has started, you can do an
26:52
Speaker 1: AI search across your platforms that you prefer. Well, everyone,
26:58
Speaker 1: that concludes our conversation. And until next time, everybody, peace
27:01
Speaker 1: and hair grease, everyone.
27:03
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for the conversation. I greatly appreciate it.
27:05
Speaker 1: No problem.