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Take Up Your Cross: Conversation · Beyond the Sermon

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  You're listening to Beyond the Sermon, the podcast of First
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  Methodist Church in Collingswood, NJ.
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  Our goal is to not only share our sermons, but to go beyond
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  the sermon in conversations about what we're learning and
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  what God is doing in our lives and our community.
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  You can find out more information about our church at
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  fumccollingswood. Dot org.
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  Thanks for joining us for this conversation.
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  So I got this new card game that a kid recommended but the church
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  say dot dot dot because there are phrases that each person
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  gets a card that says I convert. I rebuke that and Amen.
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  And it gives us random. Discussion cards.
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  Discussion cards and says before you start the game, say this.
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  Pledge together. Maybe we should do this before
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  church. We will not judge each other.
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  We will speak freely. We will respect each other's
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  opinion. We will take a praise break if
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  any topic becomes too hot. We will have fun.
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  It sounds good for your sermon series honestly.
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  I mean. We might need to adopt that for
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  our our conversations about money and sex and politics.
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  Yeah, I think you should rename the sermon series to How to Get
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  Fired or Fired Up. Or you could, you know, play
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  with the graphics a little bit in that.
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  And so you'd pick a moderator each topic on the discussion
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  cards. After reading the topic, each
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  player should hold up Amen or rebuke.
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  That majority wins. The twist?
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  If any player wants to give their opinion to attempt to get
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  another player to change their response and they're successful,
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  they get two extra points. That's where the I convert card
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  comes. Yeah.
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  Oh, that's pretty good. OK, these conversation topics.
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  We're about to find out I I literally just unwrapped it
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  right now. Where is the heretic card?
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  I guess that's I rebuke that. Let's find this.
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  Let's find this. OK.
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  What you got? I don't know if we wouldn't.
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  OK, Well, well. Communion should be real.
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  Wine should be not. Can be.
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  Right, right, right. No, Understood, Understood.
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  I think I'm going to. I mean, if those are my options,
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  I'm going to say I rebuke that. If if we're just black and
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  whining it, I think I would say Amen.
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  OK, so let's see if I can convert you.
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  Why not? It like Jesus laid out an
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  alternative wasn't even available until Mr. Welch,
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  Pastor Welch. And so like, I understand why we
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  have the grape juice. Sure, I want us to still have
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  that as an option, but if I had to choose, should be.
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  And it's like globally, every church in the world.
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  Are we doing real wine or grape juice solely off of scripture?
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  I think I'd go wine. So then are you also going to
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  push that the only bread we should use is unleavened?
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  Bread, if we're doing a should be and it's a blanket for the
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  whole world, well, I guess then you got to get into
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  availability. But I feel like wine's available
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  everywhere. I don't know if unleavened bread
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  is available everywhere, but then affordability, again, it
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  should be. It's the what you're shooting
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  for. But if it's unavailable, there's
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  grace within it. But is it not then culturally
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  appropriate? Like what's culturally
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  appropriate? And if what's culturally
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  appropriate is grape juice, then should that not also rise to the
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  level of should what is the higher value?
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  Contextualization or a legalistic interpretation of
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  Jesus said it has to be wine and.
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  Yeah, but then once you once you say, well then like what Jesus
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  said with the wine, it doesn't matter.
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  Then you just pick any drink you want and say rat Nifty 50s.
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  Let's use, you know, milkshakes. Milkshake.
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  Yeah. So I don't know.
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  You did not convert me. You didn't convert me either
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  spot I think like because I don't have a super strong
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  stance. No.
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  On it this one, since we're already entering the series of
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  how to get fired or fired up. Or denying yourself.
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  Or denying yourself how it whatever you want to call it.
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  It's alright. Here's the card.
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  It's OK for Christians to do yoga.
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  I have a lot of feelings. About this say.
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  And if we're talking it's OK to use yoga poses and even yoga
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  flows for the purpose of stretching and physical health,
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  I say yes. If you're bringing into that all
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  the ideas of Eastern meditation and emptying yourself and all of
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  that, then I say no. That's my dividing line.
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  But if you had to do black, white, Amen.
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  Or I rebuke that. I waffle.
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  If we're talking unqualified, we're just saying it's OK to do
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  yoga. I'm going to say no.
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  I think I would also do that as well.
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  I'd like if we can't nuance. It Yeah.
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  Then. And those passes we nuance.
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  So it's really hard. We say that we have to.
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  Life because I've got some workout stuff that I've done
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  that uses yoga poses and you go through these things and it
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  stretches you and it's all good and I don't have any qualms
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  about doing that I have friends who go and talk about the
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  incense that's burning and you know the.
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  More ceremonial. Yeah.
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  And they talk about their mantra and that kind of stuff.
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  And that's where I'm just like, no, I don't think that stays in
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  bounds. Yeah.
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  Well, now I'm really interested to dig into this a little bit
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  more. Maybe we can start off a couple
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  of episodes with some sure, because we.
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  Don't have enough to talk about in the exactly series, yeah?
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  Well, what what's you mentioned a few things coming up in this
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  Deny Yourself series. You said money, entertainment,
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  politics, sex. Is there another one?
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  Pride. Pride.
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  Specifically, we don't. Have any of that so you don't
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  even have to bother. Yeah.
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  With that one, how are you anticipating reactions to this
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  series and how are you preparing sermons so that it's not Scott's
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  opinions on these topics, but trying to be as faithful to
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  God's Word because these are all topics that everyone's got an
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  opinion on. Sure.
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  But I think they're also opinion or they're all topics that
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  Scripture is pretty clear on. And I think these are all areas
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  that within our modern American lives specifically because
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  that's the only context we can speak to, Rick.
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  That's the context we live in within our modern American
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  context. These areas have taken on
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  inordinate weight in our lives. I think, you know, we talked a
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  little bit about disordered desires on Sunday and the
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  message, and there's a lot of disordered desires going on in
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  these areas. And that doesn't all necessarily
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  mean it's automatically sinful. You know, it's not sinful to
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  spend money. It's not sinful to vote.
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  But you know, we want to talk about the place of those things
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  in our lives and the the plate, not just in our lives, but in
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  our identity. Because as Christians, we are
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  called to follow Jesus, to be citizens of his Kingdom and to
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  live in a way that reflects Kingdom values in the world.
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  And so that's my goal, you know, everything's going to be based
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  in scripture. I've got, you know, as I worked
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  out my spreadsheet for this, as you know, this, this scripture
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  and this one and this one and this one for this message.
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  And you know, if anyone feels like I'm misinterpreting those
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  scriptures when we get to them or any, I'm open to those
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  conversations. I don't pretend to have
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  everything right. Doesn't have to pretend when he
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  is. Which is not often, but but just
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  trying as much as possible to lean on the word and to let God
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  speak to these situations and do what I can to help bridge the
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  gaps from the culture and the context that, you know, those
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  passages were written to and how they can still apply for us.
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  Yeah, you mentioned disordered desires.
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  Yeah. And in this past week's sermon,
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  some may have viewed your emphasis on just denying
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  ourselves as in design, denying like sinful pleasures and
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  temptation, and just strictly denying doing the bad things.
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  OK, so like the idea that the disordered desires automatically
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  equate to sinful activities. Yeah.
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  Yeah, OK. Is that the all-encompassing
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  message from the scripture that you preached on this week?
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  That wasn't my intention. I could, I can kind of see how
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  people could get there because I didn't spend as much time
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  defining disordered desires. But I didn't say, you know, that
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  It was things we know are wrong and we still want.
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  I said it was disorder. Desires are things that are
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  accepted within our culture that we know are contrary to God's
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  word. But I also said it's good things
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  that maybe we want too much of. And so there's certainly a sense
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  in which I think that encompasses a lot of it,
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  Although you could argue that there are times where we're
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  called to deny ourselves and take more of like a servant
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  posture. But I think you could still
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  argue, I would still argue that the areas that that pushes up
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  against us are disordered desires for how we think our
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  life should go or what we should be able to expect in life.
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  That we would expect to have an easy life or that we would be
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  the one to were served or that we wouldn't have to sacrifice.
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  I think it's all kind of tied up in there with those disordered
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  desires. Yeah, a lot's covered in a
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  little bit because it's this not desiring the bed, right?
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  Not hyper focusing on the blessing instead of the one
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  that's blessed you. Right.
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  And then also the view of denying yourself means full
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  service to God and fellow mankind.
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  Yeah. How do you balance the loving
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  God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength?
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  Loving your neighbor as yourself while also taking care of
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  yourself. Because I think of those that
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  have burned out mentally, emotionally.
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  I mean, I've always been told never trust a buff pastor.
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  That much time to work out. Yeah, and it means that they're
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  also not like, communing either in the House of houses of their
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  people or inviting over for, like, meals and stuff like that.
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  And especially in like, Southern and Midwestern culture where
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  it's just all the cast roles in the Midwest.
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  I was, I was told. And so how do we balance while
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  also not counterbalancing that and being like, OK, well, to
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  avoid burnout, I'm not doing ABCDEFG.
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  And then it's like, I'm doing this one thing because I know
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  I'm still supposed to, you know, serve, love God, but I don't
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  want to risk, you know, doing too much for God and too much
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  for neighbor. How do we navigate?
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  Yeah. That and, you know, 30 seconds.
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  In 30 seconds. Well, I I think it's key that
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  when Jesus gave those commands or he affirmed those
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  commandments because he wasn't giving them, they were already
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  written into the law. He was just affirming that
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  together they are the most important things.
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  But I think it's important that Jesus didn't just say love the
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  Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength
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  and love your neighbors, period, right?
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  He says love your neighbors as yourself.
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  And so I think within that there is there's an implicit command
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  that we actually have to love ourselves and we have to care
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  for ourselves. You know, it's a little bit like
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  when you get on the airplane, you're sitting there and they go
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  through the whole boarding thing.
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  They say, you know, please put your seat belt on like this.
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  And if you know there's a crash and we're over water, your
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  inflation device is located beneath your seat.
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  And if the cockpit or the cabin loses pressure, the mask will
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  fall down. Make sure you put your mask on
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  before you try to help someone else, right?
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  And so we have to take care of ourselves.
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  We have to love ourselves if we're going to love other
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  people. Well, because if we don't, then
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  we are going to burn out or we're going to do it with an
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  underlying sense of bitterness or resentment or fill in the
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  blank there. And so I think we have to find
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  that line of balance of caring for ourselves without falling
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  into the modern self-care movement that says I can justify
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  anything I want to do anything that feels good to me in the
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  name of self-care, right? And so I even try to think of it
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  not as self-care, but as self-care.
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  That's what care soul, soul. Care.
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  You know, how do I take care of the bottomless?
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  My feet. I thought you said no sulk hair.
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  No soul hair. What do I need to do to take
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  care of my soul? You know which, which
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  encompasses really all of us. Sometimes taking care of my soul
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  means I need to go out and go for a walk and get some fresh
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  air and sunshine and some movement.
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  Sometimes soul care means I need to get alone with my Bible and
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  spend some time in prayer and in the Word and connecting with
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  God. Sometimes I need to go out with
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  friends and and feel a sense of community with people you know.
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  It doesn't mean it all has to be what we would think of as like
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  spiritual activities, but caring for our soul, for me has been a
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  helpful reframing of the modern self-care.
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  I think that's really important because when you say love
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  yourself, then it's are we applying worldly love or godly
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  love to this situation? And I think we struggle with the
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  differentiation of the two in every circumstance when we talk
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  about love, loving anything. So I appreciate that
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  clarification, and I think that's something that short
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  enough, but good enough to chew on for a while.
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  So we'll give the listeners a challenge.
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  And what's an area this week that you can take time for?
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  Soul care, trusting that God will use that to overflow into
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  how you love and care for others, and hopefully in that
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  time also draw you closer in your love relationship with Him.
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  Well, that's our conversation for today, but that doesn't mean
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  the conversation is over. We'd love to.
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  Hear your thoughts on these topics as well.
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  To ask a question about anything we've discussed in this episode
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  or to join the conversation, you can head.
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  Over to. FUMC Collingswood dot.
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  Org slash podcast. Thanks for being part of this
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  conversation.