Latest / Buying Local Podcast / Breaking Patterns & Rebuilding Yourself with Karen Carey | Buying Local #66

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Breaking Patterns & Rebuilding Yourself with Karen Carey | Buying Local #66 · Buying Local Podcast

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Welcome everyone to Buying Local.
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I'm your host Mike Nelson from 5 Towers Media.
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I am joined today by an old friend, great friend Karen
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Carey, Ruby Red Rd. Karen, I don't know.
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I know that it's Ruby Red Road, right?
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Yes, it is. But I didn't know if there's
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like is it like Ruby red Rd. coaching or is it just Ruby red
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Rd. Ruby Red Rd.
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Just Ruby red Rd. OK the easy. 1.
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I, I feel like you don't really need an introduction 'cause I, I
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almost feel like everyone knows you.
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But just in case people have not had the pleasure of meeting you
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out and about in the world, can you just give our audience to
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kind of quick who you are and what you do kind of thing?
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Should I? No, I'm just kidding.
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I have only. If you want to, Karen.
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Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm an intuitive life coach.
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I'm a speaker and an author and I, you know, the simple version
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is I help people get to know, like and trust themselves so
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that the world can know, like and trust them and they can go
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from where they are to where they want to be.
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So yeah. Yeah.
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It's, it's just so interesting. It it's funny because I was
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skimming back through your book again just to reacquaint myself
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with some things that you talked about in it, which is we're
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going to talk about your book today, just in case.
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Here it is. So we're going to talk about
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your book, but it's it's an interesting thing about your
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industry, right? Like it's, there's, I think a
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lot of good. I, you know, obviously I'm a, a
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big personal and professional development, not junkie,
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whatever you want it, whatever turn you want to there.
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I'm a big believer and a big proponent of it.
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And but I still, even with that said, Karen, I still have a
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tough time sometimes. I think you and I have talked
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about this with that whole industry, the whole coaching
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industry with all of you know, again, you and I have kind of
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gone back and forth, but I also know like how great it is.
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I know how effective you are. I know you work with a lot of
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people. I've worked with you on an app
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over the years. I think what you do is amazing
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and and effective. I promise there is a question in
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here somewhere, but you know, it's before we get in talking
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about the book. And, and what made me think
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about this is there is sometimes a stigma associated with the
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kind of coaching that you do. That's, I would say a negative
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stigma. And I just think that's because
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like any, any industry, there's a lot of people that are in it
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that probably shouldn't be in it and doing it and they kind of
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give it a bad name. And I know it's a little off
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topic, but I just as you're, as you were introducing yourself,
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you're using words that sometimes people are like, Oh,
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that's super woo, you know, and I just so I wanted to kind of
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blow that bomb up in the beginning, like.
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I like that. The blowing the bomb up in the
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beginning. Yeah.
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That that's an old Sandler rule. The best way to the best way to
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defuse a bomb is to blow it up. But I what how do you handle
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that? Like, what are your thoughts on
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all that, that whole diatribe that just went on about the woo
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side of coaching and personal feelings?
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And I'm just curious of of how you approach that.
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Yeah, it's interesting because there are so many perspectives
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to coaching. So.
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Many. So many, so many, right?
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And so there's a certain audience out there or, you know,
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certain set of people who actually appreciate and want
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that sort of intuitive part. Didn't used to have that in my
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title but I decided why hide it? Yeah.
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No. Why not just say like, yeah, I'm
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intuitive, I see things, I hear things sometimes, but I'm also
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just gonna ask you the hard questions.
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Yeah. I, I, I call it like, I combine
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the magical and the practical because what used to really
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frustrate me was I would go to therapy or I would go to
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coaching or whatever and it would either be, it would all be
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like in one lane. And for me that never worked.
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I have to have a relationship with whoever I work with.
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I mean, like they have to be a human with me, not a robot who's
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got some structure that it is a really nice tight box that you
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can't veer outside of. And I allow that with my clients
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as well because those are the kind of people that I want to
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work with. We can laugh.
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We can, you know, we swear on occasion if somebody wants to.
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And I guess how I deal with it is I, I have to deal with it in
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here first, although I'm not doubting myself.
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I have spent so much time studying, so many different
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kinds of coaching and I still do it.
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You know, my current one is, as you know, to get out there and
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be seen. So, you know, that's my next
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step, right? Because with a million coaches
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out there, I feel like the you know, I'm not to use this word
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so much, but the know like and trust factor is huge.
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Now you don't know who is real, who's not, who's like, you know,
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any good at their job. Do they have a life?
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Do they you know what I mean? Are they in the square box or
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are they outside the box or? Or have they done any of the
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work that they're coaching people through?
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I you know that's. That's something.
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That's something that Bill Tanzi and I had talked about in the
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past, you know, 'cause we, again, it's in every industry is
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but, but the, the coaching industry I feel like has become
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so rife with people that haven't done what they're coaching
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people to do. You know, in, in like in Bill's
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case, you know, being a part of businesses and implementing
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these structures and doing all these things, you know, he, he
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has real world application of that knowledge.
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And, or like in your case, on the life side, you know, and you
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know, reading your book, right, like you've been through a lot
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of stuff in life and been able to overcome it and go through it
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and sit with it and, and learn lessons from it, which I I think
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is great. And and we'll, we'll talk about
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the I'm going to say it wrong, Konsugi.
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And Suki, good job. Yeah, OK, good.
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All right, sweet. So and we'll talk about that.
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But it's just, you know, there's just a lot of, I don't want to
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say bad coachings. I'm not here to disparage
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anyone, but there's a lot of coaching that really just only
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comes from knowledge and doesn't come from the application of
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that knowledge. And yeah, so I think that's like
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the big differentiator, right? Like you practice many of the
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things that you preach. And I'm still practicing.
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And still practicing. That's what I'm saying, yeah.
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Like. Practicing right, yes, no, I
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love that. I mean I, I think it's an
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important part of the conversation and once again, I'm
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not like some people are built for the box right and they need
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that for me like it just like turns me right down.
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I, I just shut down, you know, because it doesn't feel like a
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human interaction. I mean, I could work with AI for
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that, right? Yeah.
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I just have AI life coach. Yeah, that that that's, that's
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kind of in line with some of the coaches that I'm talking about
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is you might as well be talking to AI because it's just
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knowledge. It's not application of that
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knowledge, right? Well, when you when you did your
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work, it wasn't in a box. No.
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I mean, there's structure, right?
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There's calling out to do something different, but it's
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not a box. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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It needs to be fluid, I would imagine.
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And again, you know, working with Someone Like You, it's
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funny, 'cause I when I was rescanning the book this
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morning, I'd say rescanning. I was scanning the book this
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morning just to for a couple specific things I wanted to
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bring up that I remembered from reading it.
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And it was just, it was interesting because there's
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things in there, especially specifically in the in the, what
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is it Part 3 of the book, the later part where you're starting
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to get people like here's the things that you do.
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Yeah. That were sounded really
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uncomfortable to me. Yeah, I bet they are.
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And I was like, oh, like I started to think about it and it
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was so uncomfortable. Like I didn't want to think
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about it. I think I'm just going to move
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on now. And I was like, wow.
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But interesting in that that's typically that's where the work
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is, right? Like the parts that are making
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you uncomfortable, the parts that you're kind of hearing.
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And like to me, I hear things that sound woo sometimes.
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And I'm like. That silly, right?
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I want to do any of that shit and then, but realistically it's
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I'm probably immediately turned off by it because it is the work
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that I really need to do and I don't want to do it because it's
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going to be the more uncomfortable stuff, which is
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probably why I haven't done it yet.
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So anyway, I just wanted to ask you about that because it was
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something that struck me this morning.
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And then when again, when you're introducing yourself.
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So, so let's talk about your book.
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Well, I wait a minute. I feel like you've you've done
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some uncomfortable work. Some of it, not all of it
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though. Well, you know, I'm always going
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to challenge people to do the deeper work because I feel like
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that's when we really get to like, transform.
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But transform to what? Like, you know what I mean?
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Like we, we don't want to just do the deep work and then just
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be left with that. Right.
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Yeah, there has to be a purpose and meaning to it for people or
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what's the point? Maybe not once again, maybe not.
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Everybody's built for that. I I started so young, like,
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like, you know, from the book, like, like so fascinated with
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people. Like I've been obsessed with who
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people are, what they do, how they do it, why they're doing
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it, why they gossiping, What are they, you know, so young with me
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that I mean, this has been my entire life.
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Yeah. Inside and out.
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Yeah. So much so much to unpack on
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this, Karen. I so in that you talk about
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doing work like one of the things that also I continually
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think about, and I was thinking about this morning as I was
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going through some of the stuff in your book and I was like,
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man, like I've been, I mean, a lot of people have been doing so
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much introspection, personal work, going through coaching,
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going to whatever they're doing, going to yoga, whatever it is.
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And it's like, and I was asking myself the question this
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morning, like, do you have to revisit some of that stuff?
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You know, 'cause like you talk a lot about patterns, right?
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And in your book you, you specifically touch on patterns,
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right? Like at the end of each chapter
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you have the, I forget what the first part is, the story, maybe
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the story that you're telling yourself, and then the pattern
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and then. What I the story I told myself,
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the pattern and the gold. The gold, yes, which I guess
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we'll have to define the Kunsigi I I don't know why I have such a
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some time saying it. Oh.
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You're doing it KINKINT kinsugi. Kinsugi So I'll have to explain
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that to people so you can understand that.
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But but in that though, I just, I kept thinking like there's
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patterns in my life that I thought I had overcome years
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ago. And then they reared their ugly
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heads up and all of a sudden I realized I'm in the middle of
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one. I'm like, how did this come
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back? I thought I'd, I thought I did
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this already. I thought, I thought, I thought
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we were done with that, right. So I, I'm interested to get into
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that with you a little bit. So, and I know that you and I
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are going to go off on some tangents.
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So let let's back up Karen, OK? And let's let's define Kinsugi.
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I don't know why I have such a tough time with that.
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Doing good. A lot of people do.
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It's not just you. OK, good.
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Thank you. So most, most people know what
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it is or I've heard it or heard of it before, where you've got a
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beautiful plate or a vase or something and it falls and
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breaks into all these beautiful, beautiful, terrible pieces.
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And then you put it back together with gold inlay and it
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becomes a a more beautiful work of art.
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So that's the whole premise of the book is, you know, we have
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lives. We there is as hard as this is
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to believe sometimes there is gold within every experience
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we've ever had. It doesn't mean we want to live
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it again. It doesn't mean, you know, the
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trauma. Maybe it's there, maybe it's
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not, but there's something to learn from.
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I don't mean like sometimes when I when I use the word learn or
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people use the word lesson or learn, it's like a negative
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connotation. Yeah, lesson learned.
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Yeah. And I don't like that.
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I feel like it's more of I've had this experience, I
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understand myself better, I understand my patterns better, I
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understand where they came from better and they're gonna come
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back. But I know when they come back
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for me, it's because there's something I'm not saying or
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something I'm not doing. OK.
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Makes sense? Yeah.
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Yeah, it does. Right.
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There's the things that that we don't handle.
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And so maybe we want to avoid it, or we've always been good
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at, or we get angry or, you know, whatever The thing is that
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we have, that we carry around. That's our pattern.
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We'll come back and if we're paying attention, like you said,
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we'll notice it. Yeah.
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We can say, oh. It's doing it again.
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OK, what am I not saying? What am I doing and not doing?
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What is going on here? Not so.
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I mean, we're not, it's not like fixing ourselves, right?
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It's like we're humans. We're going to be, we're going
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to have these things happen for our entire life pretty much.
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Unless you're, you know, some kind of monk or, you know, maybe
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they don't have it. But I think sometimes they have
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a little stuff too. We're not sitting on the
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mountain in a in a ashram or anything.
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We are here in life with people around us, family and triggers.
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And so it's really about learning how to be kind to
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yourself and also embracing the goal within each experience.
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Yeah. I thought that was interesting
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how you did that at the. I want to say it was, was it in
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the second part of the book that where you're closing each like
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chapter with those three things? Yeah.
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So I thought that was really interesting to be able to take a
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look at all these experiences that are defining us in one way
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or another, it sounds like, right.
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And then being able to see what happened, like the story you're
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telling yourself about what happened.
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And then the is it. Would you say it's the
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underlying pattern? Yeah.
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And would you say that it's the pattern that's being built
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because of the story you're telling yourself, or is it
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you're telling yourself the story because of the pattern?
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I feel like the the story comes from the experience that you've
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had. And then to feel safe, we build
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this pattern around us. Be like, you know, always, you
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know, hiding or maybe, you know, getting just being really good
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at sports or, you know, like dressing really sexy or you
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know, you know, people have different thing, different ways
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of staying safe. And you wouldn't believe how
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some people do it right? And staying safe means I don't
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want to have that experience again and I don't want to think
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about it or know about it. So I'm going to do something
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else that replaces that it's. Interesting.
17:07
And so like an easy example. And that's going to be like
17:09
drugs or alcohol, right? Like people are feeling a
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certain way, they turn to drugs and alcohol numbs them or
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whatever they get from it, right?
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Absolutely. You know that's an example,
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right? Yeah.
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What do you think are like some subtle things that people don't
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realize that they have patterns? Well, I'll just talk about
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myself. So for me, I, it was safe.
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I was always safest if I was sick.
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So I spent my life with like migraines and you know, just, I
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don't, I didn't want them. I didn't know that's what I was
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doing that but that was developed so young that it was
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safer to be sick than to not be sick.
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That that sort of carried with me through my life.
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Does that make sense? Well, it does.
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I mean, I'm thinking about that part in the book when you talk
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about that a little bit, a little bit about going to the
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hospital and the care that you're giving.
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And it just made you feel really you had these caregivers around
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you and being nice to you and you know the whole thing.
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And so because of that, you developed this pattern that was
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like, if I'm always sick, that means people are going to want
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to take care of me and give me love and make me feel good.
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Yeah, and. If I have that right.
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No, I mean, yeah, it was a way to stay like, and then there's a
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little bit more to it. Like if I was sick, there was no
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violence happening in my room, right?
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And so and then I go to the hospital and and I'm really
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being taken care of. So get that, put that
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combination together and you've got like, oh, it's better to be
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sick than not. Yeah.
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Better to not have fun, Better to be small and insignificant,
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Better to be, you know, blah. What are some other things?
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Yeah, that's interesting, 'cause you had mentioned in the book as
19:18
well about fun specifically. I'd love to hear a little bit
19:20
more about that. I mean, you talk about it in the
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book, but it's like where you were basically that fun was the
19:27
new F word, right? Like that's the and you were
19:29
like being told that you needed to have have fun, which is wild
19:33
because I don't think that anyone would think that they
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don't have fun. But I guess a lot of people
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don't, right? Right.
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Because there's this like, you know, I can be too.
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You know me, I can be too big sometimes, right?
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I can get. I mean, I don't think so, but.
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Get a really loud laugh sometimes, you know my voice
19:55
when I get excited and passionate like whoa, you know?
20:00
And I was kind of like that, but I didn't think like, it was kind
20:07
of unacceptable at the time. I was thinking for people to be
20:10
like that. So, yeah, I mean that I go to
20:19
this reading and you know, and she's on the phone and she's
20:22
like, oh, I'm hearing like your she said your guides are really
20:25
funny. And I was like, yeah, what they
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saying she's like, you need to practice the new F word.
20:30
And I was like, what's that? She said fun.
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And I was like, oh, OK, you know, and I didn't really ever
20:39
put together that I wasn't having fun.
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I have always worked sick and work sick and work sick and
20:50
work, you know, because what else is there to do, right?
20:55
Take a vacation, you know, now and again.
20:57
But you know what's fun? You know, so yeah, yeah, I.
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Mean, I mean, you know, my thoughts on those things.
21:07
We talk about it often enough, but you know, like I'm like
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vacation. That sounds terrible.
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Got to. I got to work all the time.
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And then of course, the second one, and you notice in the book
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where she says, I mean, when I got it the second time, which
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was I don't know how much later, a couple of years, or I was
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like, I sit down. She's the first thing she says
21:29
out of her mouth. And I'm at the Mind Body Soul
21:31
Expo here and I have a table and I got a few minutes.
21:34
So I go over and I sit down. She's like all work and no play
21:43
make Karen a dull girl. Yeah.
21:48
Like what? How is this possible?
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I'm having fun, aren't I? But then I have to ask myself,
21:55
like who am I being in this world?
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Like so serious and taking I can be an over thinker.
22:03
So that's why I meditate a lot. I read like, you know, the, the
22:10
books that teach me how to get my system to settle down.
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Like if I'm having a, if I'm doing a speaking engagement,
22:18
like I can be awake for, I remember one times I, one time I
22:21
didn't sleep for like 3 weeks, you know, but that was in the
22:25
beginning of doing some speaking and it was a bigger crowd for
22:30
the first time. It was like a couple 100 people
22:32
as opposed to 10 or 12 people, you know.
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But even still, I have to like keep my nervous system like in
22:41
check when I no matter what I'm doing, which means yoga for me,
22:47
something called NIA, which is a dance choreographed, you know,
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great, you know, nice thing. You know I have to do the things
23:00
and sometimes I don't. I get AI don't wanna mode.
23:05
Yeah, I know that mode very well.
23:08
Yeah. Do you ever feel like that?
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Like I just don't want to. And then I go for like.
23:11
Ever feel like it? I feel like that almost all day,
23:13
every day. Yeah, right.
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I'm like, yeah, like I want to do this right now, but I have to
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do it. Exactly.
23:21
Like, and for me, it's like the stuff of like, like meditating
23:26
or something I just don't wanna do.
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I don't feel like it today. Like, why don't I feel like it?
23:32
You know, it's just getting me and my body and settled down and
23:34
relaxing and, you know, and then I can step into the day properly
23:38
and, yeah, silly. So, so when you're putting the
23:45
book together, Karen, like what was that process like for you?
23:51
For me, it was quite an extraordinary process because as
23:57
you know, the stuff that I talk about is old and deep and very,
24:02
very traumatizing. Very personal just to say that
24:07
for the audience, right? Like.
24:09
Very personal. You're sharing very personal
24:11
things with in your book that I think probably a lot of people.
24:15
I mean, I've known you for, I don't know, almost 20 years now.
24:20
So some of that stuff I knew, but there's a lot of stuff in
24:24
there I did I never heard before from you.
24:26
So it's and very personal stuff. Yeah, and the, and The thing is,
24:31
is my intention wasn't for people to really know about me,
24:37
but that it would provide a way for them to understand
24:41
themselves. And in order to do that, I felt
24:46
like I needed to actually. I always feel like people aren't
24:51
real enough sometimes in books sometimes, 'cause I know I've
24:55
worked with a lot of people in my life and they got shit going
24:59
on and it looks like these perfect lives and these perfect,
25:04
everything's perfect and no, things are not perfect, but
25:07
that's OK, right? It's not supposed to be perfect,
25:11
but I always feel like I, I felt like it would open a door to
25:16
people for people to be able to just, you know, look at their
25:21
life differently, maybe give them a little bit of space to
25:26
explore. Like, what are my, I wonder what
25:29
my patterns are, you know, I wonder, you know, is there gold
25:34
in there? I don't think so, you know, but
25:38
ultimately there is. And it was a long process, but
25:42
it was a good one. All right, I'm just writing down
25:46
a question here. I want to make sure I, I asked
25:48
you before we before we end today, which is not yet,
25:54
obviously, but sorry, just want to make sure I wrote that down.
25:57
So don't forget it. So you're going through this
26:02
process, you're writing this book, you're sharing a lot of
26:04
personal stuff. I'm curious to know, like, you
26:11
know, you're, you're being very vulnerable.
26:14
I'm putting all this stuff down on paper.
26:18
How many times do you think 'cause I'm assuming this
26:20
happened, how many times do you think you're like, no, I can't
26:23
share that or I probably shouldn't put that in there?
26:27
Yeah, I mean it. I mean, there is nothing spared
26:32
in this book. Yeah.
26:34
Right. Yeah, there's a lot in there.
26:38
What I thought about most, Mike, honestly, is my children.
26:42
Is what I'm sorry you cut out there.
26:44
Sorry, my children. OK.
26:49
I thought, what would it what would it be like for them to
26:55
read this and will it harm them in any way?
27:03
I don't think they've actually read it, but I've read a couple
27:06
chapters to them and the feedback was from my daughters,
27:14
at least my son was like, you know, they read it.
27:16
He and his wife read it together and they're they did good.
27:22
The feedback from them, which encouraged me by what they said
27:29
to move forward, was that a lot of books are just like theory.
27:37
And this is not a book that's about theory, it's the whole
27:43
picture as a just a drop of it. Does that make sense?
27:48
No, it does make sense. I mean, I've read it, so I had
27:51
the context of what you're talking about, right?
27:52
So. Yeah, but it was, you know,
27:56
well, it was my my inner children gave me a lot of
28:01
migraines. Let's just say that.
28:03
I bet. Even though I don't have them
28:06
anymore. So I was like, no, we're going
28:08
to finish this. That's it's going to happen.
28:11
I don't care if I have a migraine every day.
28:16
Let's gather around and do this and make it happen.
28:21
And so I did. And, you know, there were some
28:26
mishaps along the way, as you know, and.
28:30
I mean, yeah, right. Putting a book together,
28:31
especially 1 like this, is not always, you know, an easy
28:34
process for sure. Yeah.
28:37
Exactly was it was good though. It was a actually a a healing
28:44
process for me as well. Yeah.
28:47
And I could have just never put the book out there and it still
28:50
would have been healing for me. Just writing it down.
28:55
Just writing it down and going through that process of, you
28:59
know, the story I told myself, the the pattern so old, you
29:03
know, that that in itself is revealing even to me.
29:09
Well, you talk about that in the book too, like as kind of one of
29:11
the things to do to help identify these patterns, right,
29:14
is to start writing things down, which I thought was interesting
29:20
because it's like, oh, I was like, oh, I was like, so she
29:22
literally was, I know that you do this stuff all the time with
29:26
people that you work with. But also, like the act of
29:28
writing this book was this, I don't know, I don't know,
29:31
cathartic process of being able to get these things out and look
29:35
at them and did. Did you find as you were going,
29:39
as you were doing that process, that you learned new lessons or
29:44
found new gold, so to speak, in some of these experiences that
29:48
you hadn't previously identified?
29:51
I I believe so, because I hadn't really thought about it in that
29:54
way. I didn't intend to write this
29:56
book this way. It just sort of came about and
30:02
that's not how most people write.
30:04
But this, you know, the the pattern and the, you know, all
30:08
of that just happened in one after I wrote one thing.
30:13
And I guess it's because of my first experience just, you know,
30:17
made the really created these patterns of like just loving
30:23
humans. Like, what are they doing hiding
30:27
in the closet, listening to the gossip?
30:28
I am so sorry. I did not need for that to
30:31
happen. Can you hear it?
30:32
Can't hear it. Oh, all right, never mind.
30:35
I'm not sorry The. The the zoom background noise
30:39
cancellation is pretty good, so. Lovely, yes.
30:46
So, yeah. So it was really, some of the
30:51
things were eye opening to me. I didn't realize I knew the
30:54
impact the nurses had on me, but writing about it was different,
31:01
almost like a tribute to them, you know, And I've talked about
31:03
it in other ways before, but I don't know, it just sort of
31:07
really defined it. And then the like the, the
31:11
guidance counselor who said I had a high IQ, right?
31:15
I mean, that was always in the background for me.
31:17
And it made me feel like I at least had half a brain.
31:21
But writing about it once again, like, sort of like it freed
31:28
things for me. That's what it did.
31:31
I didn't have to. When we're no longer, it's not
31:34
like walking behind us all the time, like saying I'm here, I'm
31:39
here, let's be safe, let's not do this, let's not do that.
31:44
It it's a new perspective. It opens a door to like looking
31:48
at things differently. Yeah, yeah.
31:51
Kind of like re examine it in a different, different light.
31:55
It's weird what happens when you write things down.
31:57
Yeah, I've been writing dead, so yeah.
32:01
Well, and that was, you know, that was one of the questions
32:03
that I, I was writing down while you're talking was like, now, I
32:07
mean, I again, I've known you for a long time.
32:08
I know that you have always done a lot of work in different
32:13
realms and modalities and been exploring your life and your
32:17
past from all different points of view and directions.
32:20
And so I it's, and, but like you said in the beginning, like
32:25
you're still doing work, right? And I'm my question about all
32:29
that is, you know, well, it's kind of A2 parter, right?
32:33
It's #1 is like, do all people have patterns all the time that
32:38
they're operating? And then the other part of that
32:41
question is like, how do you revisit these patterns?
32:46
If, if you do have patterns all the time, like how do you
32:48
identify them? How do you figure out which
32:50
patterns are good and bad and what you should work on?
32:53
Yeah. I mean, that's a really good
32:54
question. I I perceive that we do all have
33:05
patterns. However, some they're different
33:10
for everyone. Some people maybe it's spending
33:13
too much money or you know, for another person it's drugs and
33:18
alcohol. For another person, maybe it's
33:21
they go from relationship to relationship to relationship
33:24
because they don't feel worthy or something.
33:30
But sometimes what happens is OK.
33:41
This is what I used to say to people all the time.
33:43
When you get sick enough of yourself, you would change.
33:47
It's when we get sick of the same old experience over and
33:51
over and over again, something inside of us can wake up and
33:57
say, oh, ah yes, here I go again, rejecting this beautiful
34:05
human 'cause I'd rather stay in with this abusive person, or
34:11
because I'm not worthy of something better or, you know,
34:14
who knows, right? There's always different, so
34:17
many different versions of this and everybody has their own.
34:21
Or I'm angry cause, you know, I didn't get what I wanted.
34:25
Or, you know, who knows, right? And then it's what kind of
34:31
steals our life energy from us and it can stop us from being
34:37
present. I know I said my word.
34:39
Yeah, I told you earlier my word for this year's presence.
34:42
But that's all the distractions everywhere.
34:46
You. Know between all of the
34:49
technology and everything else. So to be more intentional about
34:54
that, but when people can start being more, once you notice, you
34:59
can't not notice ultimately. The patterns you're saying once
35:05
you notice them, yeah. Once you notice them, it's like
35:10
oh, and then am I? Oh, there it is again.
35:14
Oh OK, do I want to do this different or not?
35:21
I encourage people to set their intentions.
35:25
Not like because studying things and trying to fix yourself all
35:30
the time, all it does is make us feel broken or confused or
35:36
confused. Well, you know, when you're as
35:38
much a mess as like I am, I'm like, Oh my God, like what's the
35:42
what do I work on today? I got so many things I got to
35:44
work on. Right, exactly.
35:46
And so and, and you're one of the best people I know, so stop
35:50
saying that. I was fishing there.
35:54
I did it, you know, I was trying to say nice things about me.
35:57
Yeah, because you as soon as we start making all it all, making
36:05
ourselves wrong all the time does is feed the wrong right.
36:10
And so then we're we're always feeling like there's something
36:13
wrong with us. So we're always searching for
36:15
something new. And oh, maybe if I go to this
36:18
person, that'll fix it. And the truth is we have to
36:21
learn how to sit with our feelings and let them let our
36:28
body know and our mind know that we're safe.
36:32
Nobody's coming to get you. Nobody's, you know, and when,
36:38
when we have those feelings and we can't quite release them,
36:41
maybe we need to have a, you know, I mean, it's not bad to
36:44
have a coach or a therapist or things like that.
36:46
I just want people to remember like, don't make yourself wrong.
36:51
Don't spend your life making yourself wrong because that's so
36:54
sad. And.
36:57
It just keeps it going and I know that's hard to do.
37:05
So with regards to the book you're writing, this book,
37:11
you're sharing lots of personal stuff, some of the trauma and
37:16
tragedy, you know, some of them are it, you know, just wild to
37:22
me that any human should experience some of those things.
37:25
Karen I. Know but.
37:29
What's that? Yeah, it's crazy.
37:31
Yeah, it's wild. And when you're writing this
37:36
book and you're putting this stuff together and you're
37:38
talking about some of the ways that you have found to, I don't
37:44
want to say cope because that's not the right word.
37:48
Cope doesn't sound like overcoming or triumph, you know,
37:51
it's like, but the ways that you've been able to improve your
37:53
life when you are writing this, like who are you writing this
37:59
book for, I guess. Yeah, I think it's for for
38:04
people who are sick, kind of sick of themselves and the
38:10
predicaments they put themselves in without knowing it.
38:16
They've maybe oftentimes they've done the therapy, they've had
38:20
coaches, they've done this, they've done that, but their
38:24
self worth is still quite not there or their feelings of
38:30
confidence or, you know, they feel like something's still
38:34
missing. And sometimes that has to do
38:37
with just going a little deeper and digging a little deeper.
38:43
And also like, I'm not afraid to give people language to use, you
38:52
know, when they're, they've got to have a hard conversation,
38:56
whether it's a business owner that's working with an employee
38:59
or a, you know, employee that's working with a, with an owner or
39:04
it's their partner or it's their children or whatever.
39:08
Sometimes we need some words that just help us to go, Oh,
39:15
right, I don't have to go like this.
39:20
If you'd stop doing this or I'm this or and instead of saying
39:27
so, what I'm noticing is or, you know, whatever, right, you know,
39:32
start with why or for me, you know, when it's with people that
39:36
you're really close to a business, you know as well,
39:39
mostly, but that feels like something that's really
39:44
important that people don't know how to have that next level
39:49
communication. You know how many people not
39:53
over the last few years that I would ask them because
39:57
occasionally I would work with people that are having really
40:00
complicated relationships and whether it was the couple or the
40:06
OR the one of the individuals in the in the conversation, I would
40:13
say, do you would you rather have?
40:18
Just get a divorce and have no conversation or have a
40:21
conversation and then work your way through it.
40:23
They would almost always say I'd rather just get a divorce than
40:27
have the conversation, which is maybe we have more tools now.
40:33
I'm just talking, you know, I've been coaching for what, 1718
40:37
years, something like that. First few years that was more
40:41
common. I think we have more tools now
40:43
with podcasts and, you know, friends and coaches and things
40:47
like that. But sometimes people just can't
40:51
they they cannot have a conversation.
40:55
Yeah. Communication's hard.
40:57
It can be, can be, especially I you've heard of reflective
41:04
listening. I think only through you, but
41:08
please for our listeners, please describe it.
41:11
It's just a really good, speaking from personal
41:14
experience, yeah, really good tool to use.
41:19
I yeah, we went to this imago therapist at one point in time.
41:23
You know, Kevin and I are the most happy couple on the planet
41:27
and we've had our moments, right?
41:29
And we were both willing to like, oh, let's let's look at
41:32
this picture. We had sort of this pattern that
41:35
was happening at one point in time.
41:38
And. And so I learned reflective
41:41
listening and it's basically, and, and let me just tell you, a
41:46
lot of people get triggered by this.
41:48
What I'm hearing you say, you don't have to word it exactly
41:52
like that, but it does help. So you say, listen, is there
41:56
something going on here? Is there, you know, in the
41:59
person, you know, they're mad or whatever and they say blah,
42:02
blah, blah. And you say, oh, what I'm what
42:04
I'm hearing you say is this, did I get it?
42:08
And then you go on to they said the next thing.
42:10
And sometimes people just need to be heard, honest to God, like
42:18
they need to say what they need to say without us defending,
42:22
without us. I mean, defensiveness was my
42:25
yeah, I was really good at that. That that was your superpower.
42:29
That was my superpower. Oh yeah, baby.
42:34
So it just changes the whole conversation.
42:36
And some couples, you know, aren't meant to stay together,
42:40
but some are. And then we just get in the next
42:44
relationship and that same exact thing happens, only it's a
42:48
different flavor. Like it's vanilla ice cream, you
42:51
know, that's the, you know what holds it.
42:53
But then one's got chocolate chips and one's got caramel
42:56
swirls, you know? But it's same pattern.
43:00
Same pattern, yeah. Yeah.
43:03
So would you say that a lot of the work that you're doing with
43:06
your clients is to recognize or identify the patterns and then
43:13
help them find tools to deal with those patterns?
43:16
Absolutely. Like, are the are the patterns
43:19
inherently bad? Or is it just that the the
43:23
pattern itself and the result that you typically get from it
43:26
are always the same and so you're looking to change it?
43:30
Well, it depends on how damaging the pattern is.
43:33
OK. Like a pattern could be as
43:35
simple as like, oh, when I, when I, you know, notice something, I
43:41
just go for a walk. It's a great pattern, right?
43:46
How many people learn that when they're kids?
43:49
It's all about our childhood? Honestly, it's and it's not like
43:53
I want it to be about our childhood.
43:55
It's just the. Right.
43:56
It just is, yeah. Not like, you know, I'm not
44:01
saying, oh, if you had a great childhood, good.
44:04
I love that. You know the pattern.
44:08
You were too well taken care of and now you just want to be
44:10
taken care of and you get fired from jobs because you don't you
44:15
know, you don't really know how to work.
44:16
And you know, unlike me, who had to make dinners and do the
44:20
dishes and take care of my younger brother and sister.
44:23
And you know, like all this, you know, now I'm, I'm like
44:27
ridiculously hyper independent, which doesn't serve me.
44:32
And I'm it's a practice for me. It's a practice, yeah.
44:36
F word and the R word receding. Yes, it's it's.
44:48
Interesting. That comes back and it's really
44:50
funny too that you that you're mentioning that because when I
44:52
was going back through the book and looking at stuff and like
44:57
one of the exercises you have to do was like write your childhood
45:00
self a letter. And I was just like, Oh no, I
45:05
don't want to do that. So I was like, oh shit, that's
45:08
probably, there's probably something there I should
45:10
probably investigate, should probably take a look at, but I
45:14
don't want to, Karen. What the is, is are you, are you
45:18
happy? I know you've got, you're a, you
45:21
have, I think a pretty good life.
45:23
Yeah. We have things that we're
45:24
working on, all of us, right? Yeah, everybody does.
45:28
And it's OK not to write yourself a letter, but if
45:33
there's things that are still lingering, I feel it like it is
45:37
so beneficial. Like nobody's ever, you know,
45:42
it's not like somebody said to me along the way, God, you're
45:45
look at you, you're taking care of this, that, that, that you're
45:50
in and out of the hospital. You're, you're this, you're
45:53
that. Let's, Oh my goodness, what a
45:55
good job. No one you know.
45:58
So sometimes I know I talk about inner children, but it's our
46:03
childhood, right? Yeah.
46:05
I mean, I still have one of them that kind of wants to sit over
46:10
in the corner. She's a teenager.
46:12
She's like, what? Can we just not do this anymore?
46:15
You know? And once in a while, I have to
46:17
say, come on, like, let's have some fun.
46:19
She's the one who doesn't want to have fun because it's not
46:22
safe. Right.
46:24
You know, so does that make sense how I'm saying it?
46:26
Did I even answer your question that time?
46:28
No, it does to me. Yes, it, it does to me.
46:30
And, and again, I, you know, well, you mentioned the inner
46:32
child stuff. I think it's fascinating, you
46:35
know, there's, what is it, Doctor Burns transactional
46:38
analysis from like the 1960s and they talk a lot about inner
46:42
child and natural child and all that stuff.
46:45
And it's, it's fascinating to see how that stuff actually
46:48
shows up in your day-to-day, whether it's your personality or
46:52
how you do things or what you do and why you do it.
46:55
And it's really interesting stuff.
46:57
And it's, yeah, not to go up on a big tangent on that, but.
47:03
No, it is. It's interesting.
47:06
And fascinating that it's a thing and that it, you know,
47:09
even at 48 years old, there's probably some stuff for my
47:12
childhood that's still impacting my day-to-day as we speak.
47:16
Right? Yeah.
47:18
Did I say how old I am you? Can help you are.
47:22
I. Won't ask how old you are 'cause
47:24
you're not supposed to do that, but you are welcome to volunteer
47:26
that information, Karen. Well, what's interesting is 70.
47:29
I'm still learning things. Yeah.
47:32
You know, and I don't, I don't feel like I'm an old person.
47:35
I can't stand it when people, people say I'm so old.
47:39
I'm like, will you shut up? Like.
47:42
You know I age isn't a death sentence.
47:45
Yes. You're gonna die someday.
47:47
What? Could you just live while you're
47:48
here, you know, to fly and get some fresh air?
47:53
You know, like I can't expect everybody to be to be like me,
47:57
but I just feel like stop it. Yeah, so I know we're getting
48:07
short on time. You're OK.
48:10
I just want to make sure we get everything in.
48:14
So the book Unbroken, turning your pieces into peace and joy.
48:19
Where can people get it? It's on my website at
48:22
rubyredrd.com and it's also on Amazon, excuse me, also on
48:31
Amazon. Just make sure like it's easy.
48:35
There's a lot of unbroken titles.
48:39
Sorry. Get some tea.
48:44
Anyone that's read the book knows that you like a lot of tea
48:46
and that you're not heating the water in the microwave anymore.
48:49
So that's good. Should we start this again?
48:52
No, I'm just kidding. Appropriate time, right?
48:56
Don't be seeing Karen. Let's give you a little.
49:01
Yeah, So it's on my website and Amazon.
49:05
It's easiest. Sometimes it comes up when you
49:08
put in unbroken, turning your pieces into peace and joy.
49:11
But sometimes you have to put my name there.
49:14
OK. There's I can realize how many
49:16
books were named Unbroken. After.
49:19
I did it but that was the name so the.
49:23
Name and one more time we talked about it, but just again, the
49:28
people that are going to get the most out of this book, who are
49:32
they? They are people who really want
49:41
to get to know themselves. They've done the work.
49:45
They feel like something's missing.
49:48
They'd like to. You know, I work with a lot of
49:50
entrepreneurs. I mean, it sounds crazy, but
49:53
sometimes I mean, there's this match between being this
49:59
independent person with also just having all of these things
50:06
that are following around behind you that you would like to at
50:10
least at least solve the puzzle pieces and then have some tools
50:15
to move forward with. Like what's it say on here?
50:18
Let me see what's. It say on your on your book.
50:24
What's it say on the back it says.
50:27
I wrote this book for anyone who has carried pain, shame or
50:31
silence thinking they had to hold it all together.
50:38
Yeah, I mean, most of the people that I work with have had
50:40
trauma. Most of us have, but some are
50:45
more significant and they don't understand the pieces and how
50:51
to. A lot of people don't know how
50:53
to set boundaries for themselves.
50:56
Once again, I'm not a big fan of, like, category words.
51:02
Boundaries, I think is one of them these days, but to be able
51:07
to be more intentional around their life, to have make
51:12
decisions based on worrying, not worrying about other people, but
51:19
caring about people but not selling their soul for the sake
51:23
of others all the time and just wearing themselves out.
51:28
A lot of people experience burnout.
51:29
They don't know what it's from, but sometimes when you
51:31
experience burnout, it's from all that stuff you haven't dealt
51:34
with yet. OK.
51:38
And it sounds crazy, but it's just true.
51:42
Yeah. And then if people want to get a
51:46
hold of you, they're interested in working with you.
51:49
They have questions about the process or how you work with
51:51
them. How do people find you for that
51:52
stuff? Yeah, it's on my website.
51:55
They can just, you know, submit, you know, get in touch with me.
52:00
You can also just e-mail direct to me because that's if you go
52:04
to my website, that's what it's gonna do anyway, and it's Karen
52:09
at Ruby RUBYREDROAD, Ruby redrd.com,
52:18
awesomeyeahkaren@rubyredrd.com. OK, well Karen, thank you so
52:25
much for taking the time to talk to me about your book.
52:28
I really did enjoy it. Now it's my turn to need a glass
52:32
of water here. I really did enjoy it.
52:35
And again, you know, a lot of respect for you for being able
52:39
to share those pieces of yourself with complete strangers
52:43
and putting yourself out there. Very we, I, we talked about it,
52:47
I think on the last episode that we recorded with you maybe a
52:51
year ago, a year and a half ago when you came out to the farm.
52:54
But just the act of even writing A blog is sometimes challenging,
52:59
let alone putting together a whole book.
53:00
And I thought it was great. I certainly thinks I'm going to
53:03
be going back to in there, so thanks for writing it.
53:06
Yeah, thank you and thank you for having me.
53:09
I always appreciate your, your wisdom, your you know the way I
53:15
don't know, you help people. One of the things that what's
53:17
the word you use unwavering. I never forget that.
53:21
Like unwavering is so important and I think of it sometimes.
53:26
What would be the unwavering support thing today?
53:30
Yeah. My my answer for you know,
53:33
whoever and how can I do it like and you also care about people a
53:38
lot. You I know that's part of the
53:41
unwavering part, but you, you, you notice things.
53:48
You help people that need help. I don't know you.
53:52
You're a participant in life. I'm trying to be Karen.
53:56
I'm also trying to take the compliments that you're giving
53:59
me and not not deprecate too much.
54:04
And yeah, so. Thank you for the.
54:09
Yeah, thank you for having me. Absolutely.
54:11
Thanks for being you and appreciate you.
54:14
And actually, I should say too, you know, as you're talking
54:16
about who you help, you know, you and I have worked together
54:20
off and on throughout the years, different times.
54:22
And without a doubt, it's I'm always very business focused and
54:27
trying to achieve and do the things I'm trying to do.
54:30
But I also know that it's always the trash in my head that's
54:35
getting in the way. And you have always been
54:38
unwavering in your support to help me with that stuff and to
54:42
help me with it. And I, I've always gained a lot
54:44
from our time together. So I just want to say that it's,
54:48
you know, when you and I work together wasn't because if we're
54:51
doing any kind of trauma work, it was I'm trying to be more
54:54
successful in life and you are helping me see the blind spots
54:59
and, or helping me see the patterns that I have that are
55:03
maybe are blind spots. I don't see them.
55:05
So I really, I respect you and the work you do and you know,
55:08
very appreciative of it. So.
55:10
Thank you very much. I appreciate that.
55:13
OK. And we appreciate everybody
55:16
that's listening to this, of course.
55:17
So thanks everybody for listening.
55:19
You can find all of our podcasts on buying local dot US as well
55:24
as listen to them or watch them on Spotify, YouTube, Rumble and
55:28
Apple podcast. So thanks everybody for
55:30
listening and you'll hear from us next week.