Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1262 - Kids & Happiness: Can Parents Truly Be Happy?

Transcript

#1262 - Kids & Happiness: Can Parents Truly Be Happy? · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Do children make you happy or do they make you miserable?
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Maybe the answer is a bit of both, depending on
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: the day, depending on what time of the day it is.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: We talk about this question a lot on the Happy
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Families podcast because the National Children's Commissioner Ann Holland's is
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: on the record as saying that there is no such
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: thing as a happy family, like, well, not long term anyway.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Today we unpack what makes a family happy and whether
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: or not parents can truly be happy when they're raising
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: their children. Today this is the Happy Family's podcast, Real
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Parenting Solutions every Day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: where Justin and Kylie Colson Kylie out of ten, how
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: happy have our children made you today? Yes, specifically today.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: Let's make it a two.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Has been a pretty rugged day, hasn't it?
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: It has been.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: In fact, it's been such a rugged day. I'm not
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: into threats, I'm not I'm not that guy. But in
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: my efforts to preserve your sanity, I did tell Emily,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: our eleven year old, that if this keeps up, there's
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: no more homeschool. We're just going to send it back
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: to school. Here's the research. My favorite study on This
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: is Daniel Carneman. He surveyed just over eight hundred Texas
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: women or working mums and what that research showed, and
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: it's been I've written about it in my own books,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: has been written about all over the place. Women said
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: that being with their children was quote less enjoyable than
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: many other activities such as watching TV, shopping, or preparing food.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: That is, I would I would rather prepare a meal
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: than play with my children.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: I don't know who these women are, but I would
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: pick the kids over having to do dinner another night
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: every single time.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Let me do the ironing, leave me alone. I don't
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: know now. I wrote about this in The Pairing Revolution.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: There's something that's very very important in this study that
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: gets overlooked in every single article that I've ever read
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: about it, and people go for the headline mums would
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: rather do anything than play with the kids. But the
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: mums were all working mums, and they were filling in
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: these questionnaires in the morning and in the evening. I
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: don't know about you, but it's typically challenging to do
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: anything with children in the morning or the evening, like
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: they're the hardest times, as when you're tired, when you're
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: under time pressure.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: So it's called witching hour for a reason.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: It's really difficult. So here's what we've known since the
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, Sarah mclanahan's famous Columbia studies, where she found
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: that having children. Once children are born, parents' experience a
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: decrease in happiness, a drop in marital satisfaction, and that
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: only recovers once the kids leave home.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: It's a pretty glib outlook.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Is glib glamor a bit of both? Maybe is the thing.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: It's kind of true. Research is really clear that marriages
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: take a massive hit when a baby comes on board.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: On average, you see marriage and relationship satisfaction go down.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: So too does the satisfaction around intimacy, and it kind
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: of stays down there for a pretty long time once
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: the kid's are teenagers. Most it's pretty obvious when I
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: go into schools and do my seminars. The parents that
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: have got the brightest eyes, the bushy's tales, the ones
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: who look the happiest, they're the ones that are raising
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: young children. And you know who doesn't even bother show
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: up parents of teens. We're nearly finished and we're kind
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: of over it, and he can't tell us anything. Now
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: it's too late. We're done. My favorite quote of all
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: time on this topic comes from Dan Gilbert. Daniel Gilbert
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: wrote he's written a couple books about happiness, and he
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: also is a Harvard psychologist, and he said, quote, the
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: only symptom of empty nest syndrome is non stop smiling.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: So do we need to talk about why parenting can
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: be challenging?
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think we've got that under out.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: If you're a parent, you know you know. Jennifersonia wrote
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: a book called All Join In Fun about parenting, and
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: this is what she said. She said, kids provoke quote
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: a couple's most frequent arguments more than money, more than work,
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: more than in laws. So it's not just that children
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: are tiring and expensive and course sleep deprivation and mess
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: up your work schedule and your exercise schedule and your
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: everything else that's important to your schedule. They actually create
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: more conflict. Like one of the most popular questions I
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: get is how do I get my husband to agree
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: with me about parenting? Literally, that's what mums always say,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: How do I get my husband to agree with me?
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: I kind of feel like the kids are getting a
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: hard wrap here. This isn't actually about kids at all.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: If two partners can't work out a situation, how.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Is it the kid's fault?
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: Well, like being on the same page. That's a partner issue.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: That's not a children's issue.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Right, But it wouldn't be an issue if you didn't
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: have kids. That's the no.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: But if you didn't have kids, there'd be something else
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: that you clearly aren't aligned with either.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, like, don't shampoo the dog in
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: the laundry, do it outside. I just don't think that
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: the conflicts are going to be as big. It is
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: the most argued about thing in marriages. Money's close behind,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: but yeah, the kids are right up there.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: We don't argue about the kids.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: No, we don't, because you're married to the guy that's
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: written all the books about parenting.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Oh, you're hilarious.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: What do you mean?
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: I believe you just said that.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: You do more parenting than me, and when it gets
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: too hard, I literally do say I'm handing this one
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: over to you. I'm out. We don't argue, We just
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: sort of we handball. It's just a hospital pass. Oh
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: I can't take Let's see what you've got you do
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: that to me as well.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: Let's be honest, all right, show me what you got.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: So we need to talk about a couple of things here.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: First off, it is more complicated than it seems. Part
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: of the problem when it comes to all of this
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: conversation around kids and happiness is the way we measure happiness.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: So having children makes you unhappy. Happiness impact varies. Older fathers,
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: for example, get a happiness boost, Kylie. And we know
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: a few older dads and they are super happy, like
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: they love being dads. The older mums not quite so much,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: but the older dads are like, this is the best
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: thing we've ever done, so glad we did this. Young
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: parents and single parents suffer the most significant happiness losses.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: So the only reason that older men have a happiness
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: boost is because they actually treat their kids like their grandkids.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: So here's the other thing that I want to add.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: Cultural and policy factors matter as well. So parents from
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: countries that have got really great childcare policies like Norway
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: and Hungary tend to be happier than childless couples. Families
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: from the US, Australia and the UK tend to be
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: less happy. Why because our child policies, our family supports,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: and our general level of community. Just they're not as strong,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: they're not as high. So after the break, we're going
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: to talk about what Paul Bloom, the author of a
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: wonderful book called The sweet Spot, says about this whole
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: happiness thing and having kids. We're going to talk about
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: whether parents will own up to regretting having children. And
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: then the one thing that is perhaps more important than
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: this conversation than anything if you want to find joy
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: in family life, Kylie. Paul Blum has written a book.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: I've got it here on my shelf in a bright
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: yellow cover. It's called The sweet Spot. Paul Bloom is
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: a world leading academic and he said this quote, there's
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: more life than happiness. Parenting provides something deeper, something having
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: to do with satisfaction, purpose and meaning. Another guy, Roy Baumeister,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: who is one of the world's leading academics and has
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: probably published more papers than just about anyone on the planet.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: He wrote a book called Meanings of Life, also just
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: here on my shelf, and he says the same thing.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Parenting is not actually about happiness. If you're having children
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: and wanting to be happy, prepare to be disappointed, but
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: happiness comes and go. What you get a really steady
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: supply of is meaning and purpose. You get a whole
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: lot of really good You get this significance, this sense
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: of importance and meaning. Parents, both mothers and fathers, tend
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: to say that their lives have more meaning than those
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: of non parents.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: I think the challenges when you're in the thick of it,
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: it's hard to see the meaning. Like you just you
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: get so bombarded with the heart.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Don't tell me this is meaningful. I just want to break. Yeah,
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: I just want to smile again.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: I just want to sleep. Yeah.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, if I sleep, I probably am more likely
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: to smile. So what I find really fascinating in this
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: conversation is some research, again by Paul Bloom, where parents
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: have actually been said do you regret having children? And
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: surprisingly to me, somewhere between sort of seven and fourteen
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: percent across different studies say yeah, I do, which means
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: that somewhere between eighty five and ninety three percent of
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: people say no, I could never regret having the kids,
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: and Paupbloom says these are really weirdly low numbers when
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: you consider how challenging parenting is you'd expect that it
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: would be higher. And therefore you've got this question, why
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: why do parents say that they don't regret it if
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: it has been shown so consistently for five decades now
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: to bring quote unquote happiness levels down. And there's a
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: couple of hypotheses. Number one, there's just the social pressure.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: But when you know how research is done and it's
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: usually anonymous, and I don't see social pressure as playing
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: a part in this kind of data.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: That's a really really important point. However, society does glamorize
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: the wonders of parenthood, and to buck that trend and
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: say actually, I hate it and I wish I hadn't
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: done it. It's one thing to say it's hard, and
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: mummy bloggers and TikTok is all over the place it's hard,
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: and there's all sorts of memes everywhere about how hard
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: it is. But to actually say I regret it, that's
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: a really really big call, and that to me still
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: contravenes a major social norm.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: I think about some of the other studies that we've
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: talked about, and people willing to hurt other people to
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: the point where they're not breathing and you're going to
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: tell me that social norms would suggest that I can't
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: say I regret being a parent.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It's a big call.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: I'm really pushing against this one.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: All right. Memory is another one. Think childbirth, so we
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: remember the peaks, we forget the ninety nine percent of
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: mundane awfulness of parenting.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't put childbirth in as a peak.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: No, you know what I mean though, Like, no, I'm
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: saying it's a trough. But just the other day, just
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: the other day, we were talking and you literally said
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: I could go back.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: No, what I'm saying you said, I'm talking about when
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: they hand me that baby. I'm not talking about con
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: thro all that pain again.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: No, no, but you said, if I could have that
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: feeling again, I'd go back yet.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: The after feeling. You're in the middle.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Fielding even before before you get the after.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: But I don't want that.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: You said that. You said that, and that's what so
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: many people do. So there may be some justification behind
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: the memory effects there where people are saying child raising children,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: being a parent makes me happy because they're thinking about
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: the snuggles and the tickles and the I mean, we
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: just had Indiana Sky here again, a couple of nights ago,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: and that beautiful almost two year old voice as she's
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: figuring out all of her words and walking around.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: She they's not even saying words, but she's having a
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: conversation with you, and it's just aw this little ju
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: and she knows exactly what she's saying to you.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: So the big one, the one that I buy into most,
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: is that most parents love their children, and it seems
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: terrible to admit that the world would be better if
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: someone you love didn't exist. Like, you don't regret having children,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: even though you admit that your life could be better
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: without them, but you still don't regret it because you
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: love them. Look Like to me, this is the key insight.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: We say that having children makes us happy because it does,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: actually does, because the love that we have towards them.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: It means that our choice to have them has so
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: much value above and beyond whatever effect they're having on
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: a happiness and meaning that we just say yes. It
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: is one of the most transcendent, one of the most purposeful,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: one and the most meaningful and one of the most
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: joy giving experiences of my life, perhaps precisely because of
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: the sacrifice that's involved.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that's the key. The things that we
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: are willing to sacrifice the most for are the things
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: that generally speaking, have the most meaning, and because we
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: wouldn't be willing to sacrifice without.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: That correct And when you think of the most tragic stories,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: as people talk about the hardship and trauma they have
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: in their lives, whatever reason they're going through hardship, usually
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: there's a lack of love somewhere. There's parents who just
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: didn't give them that love.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: When we understand how significant connection is to our well
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: being as parents, we have this opportunity to build these
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: connections with people we actually made. We actually made.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: I'm going to say exactly that these people, like our children,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: are these wonderful people who we just grow to love
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: in such profound ways. And the more you give, the
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: more you get out of parenting. Like there's just something
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: beautiful about it.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: I love the full circle moments about family life because
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: in essence, we have literally grown this human being from
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: the tiniest, tiniest little cell, and then we have the
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: opportunity to actually grow them into people, and from a
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: child into a teenager, and then from a teenager into
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: an adult. But the crazy thing is I think in
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: so many ways, my kids have taught me more than
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: I'll ever teach them, Like, honestly, the person I am
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: today because those six girls has been shaped because of
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: what they have taught me.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Not always comfortably. No, there's we need to wrap it up.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: How time's done. Parenting and happiness. Does it make you happy?
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: I used to actually, and sometimes when I'm teaching my seminars,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: I still laugh and say no, not really, but it does.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: It does in the most profound and transcendent ways. Paul Bloom,
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: let's wrap this up with his quote. He said, if
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: the loss of a child, and we've seen this happen
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: in my family, if the loss of a child would
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: be total annihilation, then having a child healthy and happy
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: and sound must be annihilation's opposite, which sounds pretty terrific.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Boom actually bloom, Paul Bloom. Do you like that one?
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Boom bloom?
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: That Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Rule on
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: form Bridge Media. Hey, thanks Jr. For the great work
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: you do. If you'd like more information about making your
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: family happier, I've written incredible book. Well I am I'm
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: calling an incredible I spoke to somebody the other day
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: who told me it was incredible, so I'm just quoting them.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: It's called the Parenting Revolution. Get it wherever you buy
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: your books. It will make your family happier and it
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: will talk about this paradox of kids, happiness meaning purpose, satisfaction,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: all that stuff. The Pairing Revolution available everywhere you get
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: good books. It's published by ABC Books and you can
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: get more info about general happiness and your family at
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: happy families dot com dot au