Latest / How to Faith a Life Podcast with Faith Womack / Q & A with Pastor Joe Womack

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Q & A with Pastor Joe Womack · How to Faith a Life Podcast with Faith Womack

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to the How to Faith a Life Podcast.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Today we're doing a QA with my husband, Pastor Joe Momack, and we are just gonna go ahead and dive in.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: Hey everybody, I'm so happy to be here.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: You're listening to the How to Faith a Life Podcast, where we wrestle with questions on how to live a life of faith, from everything from books to Bible studies, even Bible study tips.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: This is your place to wrestle with the hard questions and dive deep into what scripture really says for the Christian walk.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure you've subscribed to this podcast and your favorite podcast streaming services, review this podcast so other people can find it, and share with other believers who want to ask the hard questions.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Now, with all that said, let's begin.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Alright, so I asked my patrons to send in questions for this QA.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: So if you are a Patreon, thank you for your contribution.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: Contribution.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Contribution, that's what it is.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Coffee.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: I need my coffee this morning.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: And um we're just gonna go through those questions.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to join Patreon, um, I'll have the information down below.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Every single time I mention Patreon, people always ask me, how do I join?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, we have a Patreon?
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: What is a Patreon?
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll have that all linked down below.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: But the first question is from Katie Bunch.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: How do you classify an important subject as a secondary issue?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: And she goes on, but basically, how do you decide what is secondary versus tertiary versus primary?
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: What how do we know how serious an issue or disagreement is in the church and in theology?
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so let's um first talk about what's primary, like what needs to be agreed on, and that would have to do with salvation, being saved through Jesus alone, through Christ alone.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so the focus is on Jesus and what you are are part of as a Christian, and that's central.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: The gospel is central, our need for Jesus is central, who Jesus is is central, and what Jesus has done, his life, his death, and his resurrection.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I would argue that his life also, if I think the virgin birth is also central.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um Typically, the general rule of thumb, sorry, I have a timer going on over here because we wanted to keep ourselves going fast, so we're trying to answer with that.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: I still have 30 seconds.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sorry, did I cut you off?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, you're good.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: Alright, so then what's oh no.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: No, you're good.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: Alright, so then what is um also primary is like the fact that you can gather together with different denominations with a common belief in Jesus Christ, so that Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists can come together under the banner of Jesus Christ and have a lot of com Wow, I've never done that.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: And have and have a lot in common um and not get caught up in all the secondary and tertiary issues.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: I did it.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: You did great.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: I um am just gonna be that wife though, interrupting you, so I'm sorry.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: No, you're fine.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um so my response to this would be a very easy rule of thumb is to look at the Apostles' Creed or the Nicene Creed.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: The Nicene Creed was goes along with um the Council of Nicaea, the first of the seven church ecumenical councils, and like in 325, like really early on in the church history, and um like those early, early documents about what we believe about the faith that say what we believe about the faith, those are the um core tenets of our faith, and that's the stuff that we don't want to debate about.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, was Jesus completely human?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Was he also completely God?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: If you debate that, you're walking the line of heresy.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that is the the that's the primary stuff.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: The secondary stuff typically has to do with ecclesiology, so like how you how the church runs and is and is ruled, or is there any other secondary issues that don't have to do with church stuff?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like the way the sacraments are done, church stuff.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it has to do like how do you interact with church people in in everyday life.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean Yeah, it's just like a lot of the secondary issues are just like how to run the church and how to do church.
• 4:15
  unknown: Yeah.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Alright, so we'll keep moving.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: The obviously none of these answers are gonna be perfectly succinct and all inclusing, all inclusive of all of our thoughts, but it's our first get reaction under the clock.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we just want to be able to get around to these Q ⁇ A's, and we're so appreciative of our patrons.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, if they still have questions, let's answer them.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: All right, I'm gonna I'm gonna read the question.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Andrea says, I'm divorced and now remarried.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: How does this affect my salvation?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: I know sexual sin is a huge one.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: How does this affect my salvation?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and she gives a little bit of personal background.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: But Joseph, in general, what are your first thoughts towards salvation, divorce, sexual sin, all of that?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, so I don't think it's a matter of salvation.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think you need to be questioning your salvation if there's you know different circumstances at play.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um one of the first things I thought of is what are the grounds for divorce?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: So was it um sexual immorality or abandonment um or feeling of unsafety, I guess which should also be classified as abandonment.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because it does get like a little messy if you're um looking to pursue church office or something like that, and um don't have like a biblical grounds for divorce.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: But in terms of like whether you're saved or not, or whether or not God loves you, um you sh it shouldn't be um shouldn't be a question.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: And the fact that you are asking that question, I think, is maybe a result of the Holy Spirit working inside you.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it it almost makes me concerned that you could have ever oh wait, I need to say the timer for my own self.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: Is the timer helping or is it stressing us out?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's good to have, but okay.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: We'll keep going with the timer.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: We might just quit doing the timer in a second.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so yeah, um it should like nothing can affect your salvation.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: God himself, Jesus died on the cross for your salvation.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: There is nothing that's gonna take away the gravity of that.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing that will make you less saved than someone else that's not divorced or that doesn't have sexual sin.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: If you are a believer in Jesus Christ and his blood has paid for you on the cross, you are saved.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: And you are his child, and he has bought that on the cross.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing that's gonna make you like less saved or take that away.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Now, when it comes to um giving advice about divorce and advice about sexual sin, the church, you know, the the world knows the church is very conservative, try and avoid divorce at all costs, typically.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: And the church is very conservative against like sexual sin and things like that.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: And this is just traditional through like the history of the church.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, those are oh, I'm already a minute.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: So um a lot of what you may have been, sorry, I'm taking more than a minute.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: Be fine, but the a lot of what you have maybe received from the church of teaching around sexual sin and divorce probably has been very traditionalized.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I would encourage you to look at scripture and what does scripture say about divorce?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: And you cannot go wrong, but the things that you hear around church culture or things that don't have scripture behind it about divorce and sexual sin aren't necessarily worth your time because you've probably already heard those things your whole life if you grew up in church, like it sounds like you did.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I don't want to go too much deeper into that, but there is so much grace.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think we have to give more grace because we are children of God.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: That should be watering our eyes right now.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: That should be groundbreaking, earth-shattering truth that you and I can be children of God.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not dependent on whether or not you're divorced, it's not dependent on whether you were a dirty leg in high school or not.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like it is dependent on the blood of Jesus shed on the cross.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Period, end of story.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: And anybody else that um it has communicated to you, maybe possibly in your past, that your salvation can be affected by um your past before life in Jesus Christ is not preaching the gospel.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I can say that pretty confidently.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's where I would go with that.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean that now that we are saved, we go and divorce and divorce and divorce.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, that's not fruit from having the spirit living within us.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's not to say that we go become dirty legs now that we're saved and in Jesus Christ.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: But when you look at the scriptures, you we see things are a lot prior, they're prioritized differently in the scriptures than how Christian culture tends to prioritize sin.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's a messy topic, but I would really encourage you to talk to your pastors about it.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: You were no less saved than anybody else.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: I made my eyes water.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: Aww.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: Angel Turner says, I know you're supposed to pray over your husband and have godly moments together, but what does that look like?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: Do you do that together, Bible study together, pray together, or what?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Whoo, Angel.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: We used to Bible study.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: We went through a season where we were Bible studying nightly together.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I well, I think I'm we need to do that more.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: I've been sort of lax now.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we have so much ministry ministry stuff and stuff that we talk about together, and I think that works differently with different couples, and it can look different uh for for a lot of couples.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do you do a sit-down Bible study together?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: Do you do a deep dive Bible study or um talk about what God's doing in your life?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I guess it has to do with um what what level you two open up together with.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Can I cut you off?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, please, please.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say when you get on these kinds of topics, like you should pray for your spouse and you should have devotionals and things like that.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I just realized we didn't set the timer.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Oh well.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when you do these kinds of things, it can easily get to legalism.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: If your partner is not spending time in the word and all of a sudden you want to be like, let's have a Bible study together, I feel like they need to have their own Bible study habit, like a relationship with God on their own.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like they need to be in the word by themselves.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe you could, well, and you could have a Bible study with them, and that might encourage them to get in the word, but you just near towards legalism.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: And this is why I don't give a lot of advice about how a Christian marriage should look like, because I think it does look very differently.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: We're in ministry, and so like we'll be like eating dinner and we'll be talking about the theological implications of this random passage that was referenced in a conversation, you know, or whatever.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that leads us into a Bible study right there at the dinner table, and our boys are just listening in, you know.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, other people though, you know, work traditional nine to fives and they get home and they maybe had a quick Bible study with the Lord over coffee, and they get home and they're exhausted and they lay down in bed and they're like, oh yeah, should we be doing a quiet time together right now?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Should we be praying for each other?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: I would say, yeah, if you have that conviction, if you, if you like, yes, if just like looking at that random life that I just outlined here, um, yes, do it by all means.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: It, I don't think it can hurt, but we can easily, easily in Christian culture get very legalistic about it.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're not praying about your space, your spouse.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not praying about your spouse, shame on you.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but ask yourself, like, why am I not praying about my spouse?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Am I spending more time worrying?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: How can I actively replace that worrying time with prayer?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: Look at your habits, look at your daily structure.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: If you aren't doing it, ask yourself why.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: And is there something that you can easily replace with this healthy habit for good and fruitful action?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Or would you just be doing this to check a box and to feel closer to God or win some brownie points with God?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because we don't ever want to do things out of that heart.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: If you do sense that within yourself of wanting to earn some brownie points with God, take yourself back to the cross and reassess salvation.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Start in Ephesians 2, 8 through 9 and work from there, and you will naturally be drawn to the word and naturally be drawn to conversations and Bible studies with your spouse and praying for your spouse.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it doesn't necessarily always have to be structured, but sometimes people like structured stuff.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: And real quick interruption this podcast is sponsored by my Patreon page.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much to all of the Patreons who entered in their questions for us to answer.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Guys, we are so thankful for your support.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: This is what makes it possible for me to do YouTube and um just have that regular dependable income.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you guys so much for your support.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: You keep the lights on here at the studio.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Literally, literally and metaphorically, we are so grateful for you guys, and um, we have a lot of fun over at Patreon.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: We're on an app where we get to talk to each other.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um Bible Nerd Unite.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Joe's on there as well.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: We film weekly vlogs and we're goofballs there.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Our boys, man, they they'll say, bye, Patreons! What do we have to turn on the camera for vlogs?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: What else?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: We have Tuesday night fellowship for the top tier, monthly Bible studies.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: Come on over and join the party.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's a lot of fun.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: But let's get back to the podcast.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, Angel asked another question.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, she said that when she was young, when she was 16, her parents made her have an abortion.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, she says she knows she is forgiven, but she still holds a grudge to her parents.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: She has a hard time letting go of the fact that she let it happen.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: She tries to look at the fact that her life would not be how it is now.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, any scripture to help?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Angel, if the Lord has forgiven you, God Almighty, creator of heaven and earth, savior dying on the cross, if he has forgiven you, then you can forgive yourself.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: And we break, our heart breaks with your heart.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe just maybe your testimony could be a light for saving other young lives that are at risk.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um maybe just maybe this could be a spot um in your testimony that you can share with your children to give them a heart and a passion for fighting for the unborn or the yet to be born.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes the hardest thing for us, we can like intellectually believe that we are forgiven, but sometimes the hardest thing for us is to forgive ourselves.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: And once you've I I think truly leaning into forgiving yourself and forgiving your parents will take you into a deeper level, a deeper knowledge of Christ's forgiveness over you because he is all righteous and true justice and um all love, and he is creator of that very life.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um would you have anything to add?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, not really.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think that like it's hard.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean like losing a family member or losing someone is like that's always gonna be it's always gonna be there.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um I don't know if you can ever forget or should forget, but you shouldn't, like, yeah, not forgive yourself or beat yourself up for the rest of your life.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um Yeah.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we do that.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: I know sometimes I do that to try and make myself feel like I'm paying for it or making some kind of penance for it.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not what the cross asks of us.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, I encourage you to lean into this.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you having such a hard time to forgive yourself?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Are you making some kind of like subconsciously trying to make some kind of penance?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Are you subconsciously um kind of limiting yourself from truly believing that God has forgiven you and that the cross is more than enough for our brokenness and our sins?
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's messy.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's messy, and my heartbreaks.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: I wish I could hug you right now.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um but it comes down to the cross, and the cross is like the real deal.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: The cross is the safest place for you to take this.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: And he understands.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like he's like, why can't you forgive yourself?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like God understands and he has so much grace and love.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so take like literally what you just wrote us and take it to the cross and take it to your prayer journal and unpack it more with him.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I truly believe that this is the start of something really good.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, bringing this up anyway.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Rebecca Lowry says, if and when a situation at church arises, what is the best approach to handle this?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: How can someone lovingly share a genuine concern with the fear of being dismissed from the preacher leaders and causing disunity?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh boy.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I think that the best way to handle this is to go through like the Mattine, Matthew 18 um issue.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if you feel wronged by someone in the church, go to them first, address it with them, talk to them about it.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's hard to do.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but that's Christ's guideline in Matthew 18.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: So go to them first.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: If they don't, if they're still not receptive or reject what you have to say to them, then you approach them again with one or two more, probably leaders in the church.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and if they still don't respond well or reject that, then you go with the leaders in your church to talk with them.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: If that still doesn't work, then um through lots of prayer, you then um handle the issue as as a church issue.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: But I think like along the way, and when you get to that point, it becomes a church issue, and and that will actually bring more unity, I think, whenever you approach it that way.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: So hopefully things get handled first by talking to them about it straight on.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: And what so often happens in the church is we talk to our group about it or uh people about it first without first going to the person, and that can bring a lot of pain into the situation.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good advice.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'd also say pray about the thing itself with the Lord, and I don't know what it is.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: You don't specify what exactly it is, if it's heresy, if it's um just faulty practices, not to say just, but the severity of it too can also impact how um serious you want to get with it, too.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, don't be afraid to call things out as heresy if they're heresy.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, don't be afraid to say, like, we actually don't believe this in our denomination if that's really not against your statements of faith or whatever.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think sometimes putting labels on things or not being able to put a label on things and realizing, okay, this isn't that big of a deal as I have it in my head, um, can give you the opportunity to show grace and to challenge yourself.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've had that in my life of realizing, okay, like this is a secondary issue or um this this is a great opportunity for me to die to myself.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I don't know what the situation is, so I'm not trying to imply anything for your particular dis um situation.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but sometimes just evaluating with the Lord and putting, like just asking yourself, like how severe is this situation can help you kind of decide how severe you want to get emotionally into it.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because I get emotionally invested in things that I don't feel are right or injustice, and sometimes that will take me, that will lead me to take things farther than they necessarily have to be.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so um I'd encourage you to do that as well with the Lord, just discuss how serious it is.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because yeah, sometimes it can be the best thing ever to still submit to church authority and to love your church and die to yourself, even when you're like, I would have totally done that better, you know, or whatever.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: But I I don't know.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know about your cer situation.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: If it's heresy, by all means, girl, get loud, get proud?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, get loud and speak truth.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: All right, Julie says, Are there things theologically you and Joe disagree on?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you discuss these things together and navigate that as a family, especially oh I just spit, especially with teaching your boys?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so typically when we come to things, we might disagree like right off the bat.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: And the more we unpack them, the more we realize that we agree for the large part.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, what's a good example?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: I know a lot of people asked about creation.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to talk about that?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, we can.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: And there's like, yeah, I mean, someone even said in one in the comment on our last video that how we pretty much are view the issues the same way, even though we might word it differently or say it differently.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, there are things that we do disagree on, and and what we discuss them, like we talk about them head on and talk through things, and we find like enjoyment, I think, in talking through things.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: Uh sometimes if it does get hard, I tend to shut down because it's easier if we believe the same thing.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're to look at our degrees and what we lean towards in studying, like I got a theology degree and missions degree with my undergrad.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Joe got a pastoral ministry, pat like pastor degree in Mdiv wait, Mdiv?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Mdiv.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: I always get demon and Mdiv mixed up.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: And Bible and theological degree.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I lean towards like the theological debates.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: How does this affect the way that we think about God?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: And Joe leans a lot more towards the pastoral application of the scripture.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so that we'll we will naturally lean towards different empath emphasises.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: In our exegesis of the passage.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: So when we look at creation and I look at the theological understanding of creation, I am content with saying um maybe they're not six literal days like I was taught um growing up.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they are like expanses of time.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: When you look at the Hebrew, like whatever, like I'm okay with that.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: And Joe would say very younger six literal days, would you not?
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: Right, yeah.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um there are instances where day in Hebrew is translated not just like a 24-hour day, but a longer period of time.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: But from from what I see in the biblical account of Genesis, I believe in six literal twenty-four-hour days.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: And could God have done it any way that he so chose?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: Does he need a certain amount of time to create things?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: No, he does not.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Even if it looks like it took longer, yeah.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: So um Joe from a very pastoral angle leans towards it makes sense.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's I I don't know, I you get what I'm saying?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like Yeah.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: I like keep things I I like to keep things simple on this issue.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um just because like my mind it's hard for my mind to wrap around, I guess, something else.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it just had to do with me not being smart enough, I guess.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: But no, he is smart.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of people who are smarter than me who have a different view on this.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um it also comes down to who we were taught by too.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: We both went to the same um college, but we had two different biblical science professors, and so they one was a young earth professor and one was an old earth.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I was pretty strong young earth before I took him, and he made a good biblical argument.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and he really challenged my thoughts and my thinking and kind of opened me up to give a lot more grace on this topic.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um well, yours made a great young earth argument.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: My my simple view is that like God didn't create Adam and Eve as infants, but created them as adults.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: Same thing with creation.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: Creation reflects like maturity in that.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: So if you were to cut down a tree in the garden, it would have rings around it, even though it was only a certain amount of years old.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: And our personalities are also reflected in this too.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Of um, I am a lot more like, I don't have to have all the answers, but he does.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like his job necessitates, he needs to have opinions and answers.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, okay, so if we find, you know, I don't know, a rock that looks like three million years old.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, cool, great, awesome.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, cool, glory be to God.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I don't sweat it one bit because I just don't.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, God is more than enough, and he has all the answers.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't need to have them nor understand them.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, your job like necessitates you got some answers.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it comes down to our personalities, the way we've been taught, the professors, the books we've had, all those things.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think the Lord is so sovereign in your teaching.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: I know sometimes people are like, you're just shaped by who you're taught by, but yeah, you are shaped by who you're taught by, and that's why it's so important to um pay attention to who you're reading and to pay attention to um who you're being challenged by and um lean into that.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: I've really been in a season of challenging myself with who I read.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: Right now I'm reading a book that I do not agree with at all, but it's refining me and sanctifying me um in really interesting, fun ways for me spiritually.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, okay.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what is Jo's opinion on your Bible journaling?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: I love faith's Bible journaling.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: I love seeing Bible journaling.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: She like is a pro at it, and it's fun to watch her continue and like get creative and everything.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh for me personally, I'm not as creative, and and so I don't do a lot of Bible journaling myself.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: I get like, if I have to do like small things with my fingers, I get like kind of frustrated uh eventually, and like I can do it for a little while, but eventually I'll get like mad at myself or frustrated or it's just not like soothing.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people are able to like draw through and talk through things and think through things by drawing, by putting things in your Bible, and it's so neat to see Face Bible and what she does in it, and it's fun to look through.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's not as fun for me to try and find a certain passage in her Bible, um, because she she knows it and she knows exactly where to turn, and there's a lot of flaps and different things, and so it's hard for me to find where I want to go in the Bible, but it's but it's good for her.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's yeah, I think it's I think it's great.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I love it.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: I love the way that face videos go as far as Bible journaling videos and well as far as anything.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, for me personally, I don't I don't do the practice because um it's not going to help me grow my relationship with the Lord as much as it's gonna help somebody else.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: Is that fair to say?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe that's not fair to say.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you just haven't like tried it.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you're not necessarily interested in trying it because you're not creative-minded.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're a lot more straightforward, ABC.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're not afraid to take notes in your Bible though, right?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like you don't take notes if you found them helpful.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: But you're not really super you don't come alive with creativity like I do.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: When I see something creative, I'm like, ooh, and it makes my brain go and it makes my brain learn.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: With your brain, it's less that, right?
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think so.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: And like there's also, you know, f faith is willing to make mistakes when she's writing stuff down, and you know, if if she uses the wrong color pen or something, you know, that that's okay.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: Or if she if something hits her at that moment, she writes it down, and next it doesn't apply as closely, um, she's still okay with that.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, if I like put something in my Bible, I don't want to disagree with it later on the road later down the road, or if there's like a mistake where I slip up on the pen or the coloring utensil and make a mark, that's gonna bother me for the duration of my Bible's life.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: And um you just gotta make enough mistakes where it doesn't bother you anymore.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I should say, like, there have been things I've taken down as notes or like an exegesis where I'm like, oh, this is super powerful, or even application that later I'm like, I don't know if that was super great and faithful to the text.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, and I'll cover it up or I'll wide it out.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, I think it has to do with your creativity, the way that your brain's wired.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: Some people are just naturally gonna be like, that clicks with me because I was naturally a huge journaler.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: I always have been a big journaler, and you've never really been a journaler necessarily, and so it just never kind of attracted you.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I memorize things better if I write them down repeatedly over and over and over again.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: But as far as yeah, I have to like force myself more so to write things down versus faith where it comes more natural or it's like an outflow of her reading the Bible.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm very analog.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: If I want to remember something, I need to write it down.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just now trying to move towards a digital planner, and it is so hard, it's so not um natural to me to digitally write things down, like it just doesn't, it doesn't stick, it doesn't work for me.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying so hard though.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: So pray for me on that because I've already missed doctor's appointments.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um now she goes on to say that her husband doesn't really like it.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: He's kind of against it and questionable about the whole thing.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: And my biggest um defense of Bible journaling, whenever people are like, How dare you add to your Bible and write notes?
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, is to say that like the earliest of the earliest scribes did it.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: They would annotate along the side and say, um, you know, oh, this is misspelled, or oh, you skipped over this, or whatever.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: They would leave notes to further um to future readers and scribes, and they would also um add art.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh what was that called?
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh in the margins.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um they would illustrate.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: The scribes would.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: I forget.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: There's a fancy word for that.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: But so it's like very early on in church history that that was a thing that we that scribes and Christians did, even I think Old Testament stuff too.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of a beautiful thing that our religion.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was recently reading about this, um, our Christianity and Judaism has been so book-y because um that's unlike the culture in the ancient Near East and stuff like that.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, for those that are questionable about writing in your Bible, I would just encourage them to kind of look into the history of it.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's pretty historical and it just works with some people's brains and it doesn't with other people's.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, people respond.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: She also asks, like, how do people respond to my Bible?
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: People can be rude about my Bible and say, like, whoa.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Other people just like want to take pictures and gawk, like I'm like a museum, um, or my Bible is a museum.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've had like non-believers stop me and take pictures of my Bible before, which I thought that was really interesting.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're will they're more than excited to open up my Bible than if it was a normal Bible, they'd be like, ew, gross, you know, Christianity.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes it can be a great evangelism tool to express why I find life in an old ancient book.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then will you have to get a new one to fill with the new stuff?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: So the way that I do things is I just add paper when I want to take additional notes.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: And the more notes I've added, the more efficient I've got with the way that I add my notes so that I can still get to the scriptures fairly easily and just flip my notes away.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so um I just plan on when I've kind of like started to memorize the notes that I've written down, covering them up, cutting them out, whatever, to make room if I really needed to, if they were really in the way.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'm planning on getting it rebound.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: Y'all, I'm since you guys are the podcast listeners, I'm actually in discussion with a company that wants to rebound it, but I'm having to, I'm like nervous about mailing my Bible off.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: So um stay tuned with that.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think that's all.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have a ton more time.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: One more question?
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm trying to look through these questions and find a juicy one.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, we got a couple questions about what are some ways that you can learn to love someone or get your jealousy out of your heart, hate and jealousy out of your heart and mind.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like loving your neighbor, those kinds of questions.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Even when it doesn't come naturally, it's really hard.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: I thought those are really good questions because I can resonate with them.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um prayer, lots of prayer.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: Leaning to, sorry, I burped.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Leaning also into the cross.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Keeping my eyes on the cross should be the most humble thing ever and put me in my place to say who am I to hold hatred against a brother and sister when God Almighty has shed his love on me.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um that kind of should cast away all hatred.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd say keep staring at the cross and meditating on the cross and marinating on the cross.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: I know that's something that the church tends to do more around Easter time in the spring, but it should be a year-round thing.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: And um the direct outworking of doing that will lead to loving your brothers and sisters.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a core characteristic of being God's people.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like from the Old Testament times all throughout the New Testament times, um, he says, like, the main part of our identity in him is loving the orphan and the widow and loving our neighbors and forgiving those who are hard to forgive.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, you see that all throughout the Bible.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have anything to add though, practically?
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Practical steps?
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think if you're having trouble loving someone or it just takes like more work, like sometimes friendships take more work.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's good to be intentional about praying with them and and thinking of them, like if if some if you're inclined towards not liking someone or in and you're seeing them every day, to be intentional about praying for them and praying for your own heart every day or anytime you're about to come in contact with them.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and when you're praying, focus less on your feelings about that person and marinating in your hatred or your dislike of that person and focus more on God's love for that person and seeing that person as a broken, lovable um sister or brother in the faith.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that helps too.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like I noticed when I pray about hard feelings towards somebody and I'm praying about my hard feelings, I will just sit there and talk and talk and talk about my hard feelings, and I won't ever really get to a point of reconciliation in my emotions.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: But when I lean into how God loves them, how God sees them, how their pastor sees them, whatever, um, and loving them as another broken human with just maybe different struggles or different personality or whatever, um, that kind of helps me.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: And faith has already said it, you know, the cross.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like, well, how do you see when you see what Jesus has done for you on the cross and see like how much he has forgiven you in the sins in your own life, it'll help put things in perspective whenever you're dealing with other people.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: It really does.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I also am a big believer in setting boundaries.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I used to lean into somebody when I felt irritated and I was working on loving them.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: I would try and almost spend more time with them, which sounds unnatural, but like I I would lean, I wouldn't set boundaries.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: But sometimes when you have those harsh feelings, you need to take a step back so that you don't give them opportunity to pile on that fire of hatred or jealousy or um anger towards them or resentment.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you need to kind of take a step back and pray and love and muster up um that ability to then go towards them again with love and forgiveness and a clean heart.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I think sometimes boundaries are pretty necessary to just to acknowledge like I'm a sinner and I'm gonna perpetuate hurt and brokenness if I don't tap take a step back real quick and check myself with the cars.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, dealing with people is hard, but we are called to it.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: So that doesn't necessarily mean the situation is gonna be easier because some people are just difficult to deal with.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: But like your wife, she's pretty frustrating.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: She interrupts you like the whole podcast.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-mm.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: Guys, thank you so much for joining us for this podcast.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: Joseph, would you like to pray us out?
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, hopefully you listen to faith normal and then you are able to times two the podcast whenever I'm speaking.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: So go ahead and hit the times two and let's pray it out.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: Dear gracious God, our heavenly father, thank you so much for this day.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for this time, thank you for the questions being asked and the thoughts that people have and the way that they're working um in their own heart and life.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: I pray, Lord, that you'll be with us, that you'll guide us, that you'll give us wisdom, and help us to discern your truth.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: May we dive into your word and uh pray all the more, Lord, remind us of your faithfulness, your goodness, and may we go forth um under the banner of Jesus, proclaiming his truths and loving one another well and keeping things in perspective with Jesus and the cross and um coming together as believers through the commonality of Jesus Christ.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: Pray you'll go before everyone this week, that you'll bless them, that you will have your hands upon them.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: And Jesus' name we pray, Amen.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: Bye y'all.