Latest / WHAT I'VE LEARNT / What I've Learnt - Caitlin Marshell & Lizzie Rose (MakeShift)

Transcript

What I've Learnt - Caitlin Marshell & Lizzie Rose (MakeShift) · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: Well, just 15 minutes a day or a couple of hours a week spent doing something creative significantly improves your mental health.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: It might be art, crafts, singing, dancing, gardening, cooking, playing the ukulele, but all of it reduces anxiety.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: Knitting regulates our stress levels just like jogging does, and singing calms our trauma response.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: Creative practices soothe our nervous system, reduce burnout, and help us feel present and connected.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm really excited to have Caitlin and Lizzie, who are at the forefront of the creative prescribing movement in Australia.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: Their remit is to jam the joy into mental health, restoration, recovery, and collective resilience.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: They firmly believe that you don't need to be good at art for art to be good for you.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: So they've developed this extraordinary creative prescriptive book and also platform.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: They can guide your listeners through practical hands-on activities that can take as little as a few minutes to demonstrate the powerful impact of creativity and practice and have fun with it.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, for the first time, they've distilled their decades of knowledge and practice into a new book, Creative First Aid, The Science and Joy of Creativity for Mental Health, published this March.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: So, Lizzie, Caitlin, welcome to the What I've Learnt Podcast.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so thrilled to have you join us.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think my listeners will be very excited about what you're doing.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: So thanks, Deborah.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Pleasure to have you both.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: Creativity, of which I'm a big fan.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, I come from a creative environment.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: I have a lot of creatives come on the podcast.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me how this concept developed, where you got the idea.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, Lizzie and I have been working together for actually just over a decade, and we met when I moved to this area in Wollongong and didn't know anyone and ended up somehow in a kind of backyard singing group.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: I got invited along to um yeah, come and sing with a bunch of people.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: We were all just, you know, liked singing and liked playing music.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's funny.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: I love singing too.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that idea.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it was, you know, very much for me about I wanted to make connections.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'd gone through some big stuff in my life.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'd just lost my mum.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: I was pregnant with my first child and singing.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: I was not even a particularly good singer, but I just thought I'll do anything right now to kind of find a way to meet some people and um get some creative expression happening in my life.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, we met and both kind of worked in the space of I'm a social worker, I was working in community development at Lizzie and sustainability education and community development.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: And we just kept talking about how great it would be if there was a platform for people to connect around shared interests and things they enjoyed, rather than what often happens in our line of work is that people connect or are put together because they share a problem.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: We sometimes use the example of like if you're gonna, you know, form a loneliness club, you're not necessarily gonna attract that many people.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas if you are, you know, creating a creative workshop, then you're probably gonna attract those people and they'll experience connection and an easing of social isolation through the activity and the process of creativity.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, and it seems somewhat obvious, it doesn't it?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: It seems like something that, you know, it's amazing that nobody's really done this to this degree, like what you what you have created with makeshift.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: So tell me a little bit about the logistics of how that came to be.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: So then you obviously joined the singing group.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then Lizzie, how did you get involved?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I was obviously in the singing group too.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: We became friends.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we had small children at the time, and we created this concept of a business together, um, which started out as a grassroots community-based Skillshare organization where we ran classes for adults in various places, gardens, backyards, community gardens, co-ops, libraries, community halls, etc., um, where we were cultivating and building, you know, a resourceful, sustainable DIY community through the exchange of skills.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: So people would put their hand up to teach DIY bike maintenance or sourdough bread baking.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: We would make it happen.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: It was really successful.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then really what started happening was that GPs and psychologists started getting in touch with us and saying, hey, I want you to know I'm sending my clients to your classes because they're experiencing a decrease of anxiety or they're feeling more connected or their depression is easing a little through learning how to bake bread or learning how to make a garden and connecting with other people.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so we knew this was happening and we were actively cultivating this and then having this kind of informal creative prescribing from GPs and doctors just shone a big light on it, and we went went towards it and turned into makeshift, which is what we are today, prescribing creativity as a vital form of medicine for our well-being and mental health.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: It is just such a good idea.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think too, we had lots of people telling us, you know, this coming to these classes has has really helped me.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so we were also hearing directly from people themselves that their mental health was being improved because not just they'd come to one class, but then they'd kind of fall into a new interest or a new hobby or a new practice that would then connect them to more people and they discover other people that were interested in that too.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really that social fabric that, you know, when we talk about mental health and accessing support, all those formal supports are really important, but they don't take up.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: There are lots of other days of the week.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's lots of other hours of the week.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a good point.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's a lot of people who are quite isolated, particularly the way that, you know, the digital world makes ironically, it can connect people, but can also make people feel isolated.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I love the hands-on nature of your workshops that you know it's actually people in a room or in a garden or in a library.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: How can creativity help people with experiences like depression, anxiety, grief, or trauma?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: Specifically, you talk about, and even you work with first responders, I saw, and you work with people who are also on the other side of dealing with trauma because they themselves are traumatized by that role.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, that was a pilot where we worked with 44, mostly first responders, who were their PTSD was so significant they weren't able to work.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of them weren't even leaving the house.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: So we were running that program online on Zoom.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: We post everyone a big box of stuff, including a ukulele and paints and other weird things, which was, you know, a really big deal for them.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, I mean, the outcomes of that were pretty incredible.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's why we really stand by that creativity can play a role for people who are well in kind of maintaining our well-being, but also as part of recovery for people who are really significantly going through lots of challenges.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, one of the biggest gaps in mental health, I mean, this would have to be one of the major gaps, I'm sure, because really, in a sense, the doctors work to heal and treat.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I love the way you refer to it as prescription, because it is, it is really, it shows the sort of, I suppose, the serious nature of what it offers.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: What do you see?
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the the gaps in mental health education and this creative first aid fit that I think you've created is quite clever.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, uh, we call it a prescription because the nature of engaging with creativity, which is innate, it's in all of us, right?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: As being human, we're just creative, even though so many of us think we're not.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: We are.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I guess the kind of medicinal aspect or the first eight aspect of that is that by um, you know, practicing creativity, it engages with our nervous system and it um impacts the brain chemistry.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it can help to calm us and lower our cortisol levels and boost our serotonin and our happy hormones, and it has an interplay with our nervous system.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: So right there and then it can be a form of, I guess, a treatment or a medicine, which is why a lot of doctors, more and more in Australia, and particularly over in places like the UK, are starting to send their patients to join a choir or go into the forest and have a walk through the forest.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, the forest walks are huge, aren't they?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's become a whole thing.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, one of the biggest um gaps in literacy around what it means to look after your mental health, we hear that all the time.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're meant to look after our mental health.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: But how do you actually do that and what does that actually look like?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Is still pretty vague.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, learning to notice and understand your nervous system and the messages that your nervous system is sending are little cues about what we need.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so if we can empower people to know what that their nervous system is telling them, I need rest, I need to play, I need to take a break and do something that's enjoyable because that's resetting our nervous system into a space of being functioning, like being able to learn and feel empathy and problem solve.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: When we're kind of outside our window of regulation, it's really hard to do those things.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: So that is at the heart of the work we do and what's in our book is trying to build the literacy around that because we're not we're not taught it.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: We don't get taught that in school.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: No school.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: We don't.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: I thought extraordinary, you know, it's really interesting what you say because you talk about schooling and education, and you know, there's a big drive on the academic achievement, as we all know, and the pressure and the atar and the get through and become this and become that.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: It is just so logical.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I was a creative always at school.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I remember, you know, the that and I went into journalism, which proved to be great and an amazing journey for me.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: But it wasn't at the time, you know, the notion of having a creative pursuit has become a little more acceptable if not fostered now.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: But it's always been very sidelined in the education sort of world, hasn't it?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh, that's lovely.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: You want to be a painter, you want to be a weaver, you want to be a writer, lovely, but it's not.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: It hasn't been given the values.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think it is more now, because actually the creatives are driving the world, in case somebody hasn't noticed.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they are a lot of them, you know, whether it's social media or design or art or music, a lot of these platforms are critical to the way our community and our and in particular our children are raised.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: So immersing what you do into being part of our education system, is that something you've explored?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: Is it something you're doing so that young, you don't have to be a kinder and be in doing Play-Doh.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: You can actually be in year 11 and you know, being creative.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: Is that something you've explored?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: We get we've been asked that a lot.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: We um, you know, we firmly believe it should be part of the curriculum, um, particularly for, you know, kind of year nine and up high school kids when they start entering the kind of ladder, ladder years in the HSC, and a lot of um, you know, mental health kind of rises up around that time.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: And there's huge support that can be given to those kids if they understand their nervous system and they understand that a quite a practical, fun, playful application to support them can be through creative practice.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we have been asked a lot, um, and we're looking to, you know, to move into that space, but we've we've just we haven't had time.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's interesting.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, it's so busy, I know, because your book, it's a it's a brilliant concept.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the book will help get that out more and more into the world and into other arenas.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's interesting too, because you know, people always, you know, there's those people that go, Oh, look, I'm not creative.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not a creative, you know, as in they have a perception.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I I think that is an interesting notion too, that it tended to be, oh, you're a right brain, you know, you're not a left brain.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's also about changing our lens on that.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: Can you talk to that?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we've met hundreds of those people.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, when we ran all those hundreds of workshops in our local community, often it was the first thing people would say.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: They walk through the door to come to a, you know, watercolor painting class and they'd say, Oh, I don't know what I'm doing here.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not creative.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Mine's going to be terrible.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: So it's almost like that's that's what we expect people to say.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like they have to kind of just make this disclaimer before they've even begun.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that has come from our culture that says there are rules about who's allowed to do this stuff.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think a lot of people, when they are young, when they're at school, they get this very strong message.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: And if you think about that time, we're just figuring out who we are.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: We don't even know what we love yet.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: We're still exploring.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: But if you get told you've got no musical ability at all, or you're never going to be an artist, then people tend to shut that door forever, you know?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: And our point is that those things are good for us to do, whether we're good at them or not.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Just like physical exercise is pretty good for everyone to do.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of us don't enjoy it or aren't necessarily good at it, but that's not really the point.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: So we can have musicians that we buy tickets to go and see because they're amazing musicians, but we can also just be people that play music because it feels good for us.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't really matter if if we're that good at it.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I actually agree with you.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I think this notion of you know, the constant expectation that, you know, I mean, I certainly have cultivated in all my children who are much older now, but the notion of being creative.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: You can still do law and be creative, you can still do medicine and be creative.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I think this is really important because we're not undermining the notion of academic achievement or whatever it is, whatever pathway they want it.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: But this is critical to mental health and as a almost as you say, as a prescription for well-being.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: And you can't be effective at your job unless you actually have an outlet, I suppose.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's sort of old-fashioned in a funny way.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's sort of like more.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's definitely not a new concept.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um we acknowledge that uh, you know, First Nations people around the around the world are the original creatives and the original storytellers where our work leverages off that and it's been passed on, and we um, you know, acknowledge and respect that we're taking that concept and and and doing what we do with it.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's not new, it's coming back to ourselves in a way, and remembering our humanness and remembering our innate creativity and just dialing down those voices that you know tend to derail us, the inner critic that tells us no, we're not creative, and shame that we rail it before we even start.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: So we're just trying to remind people, I guess, that everybody is creative.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually not possible not to be creative.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, Deborah, like you were saying, you know, it's almost like just broadening the definition.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Being creative doesn't mean being an artist.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: You can be creative, like you said, in and be an accountant.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and I think at the moment we have a cost of living crisis, and people are really struggling, and that requires enormous creativity to figure out ways to make our dollars stretch further, to you know, give our family what they need.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: That is creativity in action.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's thinking and making connections that weren't there before.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's what creativity is.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, it's quite, I find it quite a nurturing notion.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if you think as mothers, for example, you know, you're often going, oh, it's a rainy or it's a hot Saturday, and I've got to find a way to make sure the kids are active and creative.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: And we wouldn't even hesitate to put out the paints, the play-doh, the whatever it is, to keep them stimulated, connected, not bored.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's logical we would apply that to, it's it's quite a nurturing notion that you've created.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: We'd apply that to adults or people in need or people feeling disconnected, you know, burnout and vicarious trauma.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: You talk about that creativity as a medicine, which we've touched on.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: How receptive are you finding?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned some of the doctors are sending people to your organization and to your platform.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: How how reticent uh is the medical community or the you know, the traditional medical community, to this notion?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: Or are you finding it's being embraced more and more?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's definitely a big push in Australia around the movement of social prescribing and a lot of fantastic people working in that space and working with, you know, the health system, which we know is absolutely kind of groaning under the strain of, you know, the fallout of the pandemic.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: So many people are trying to use services, which is great.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: We've encouraged people to go out and get support for mental health, and then the services aren't quite able to meet everyone's needs.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: There's a huge cohort of doctors and people in that space that are welcoming this because it relieves the system.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if we can capture the people that need some support early to develop really good strategies to, you know, look after themselves before things get worse, that's only a good thing.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think we talk about in the book the evidence, and often the question that gets asked is well, you know, where's the evidence of these approaches?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: And anyone working in this space is used to that question now and just knows there is a world, there is a mountain of evidence.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, a little bit more disparate and not as well funded as other medical research.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, on that note, a few things.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, NDIS, I know there are a whole lot of NDIS supports because I know somebody that works in the NDIS um sphere, and clearly, you know, you can walk in for for you know uh various creative pursuits and get NDAS support.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: Is that something that you're which in itself is like a bit of a nightmare, the NDIS trying to access resources, as we know for many people?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: But is that something that you're finding?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: Where are you getting support and how are you getting funded?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: So are you getting government support?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: Are you getting NDIS support?
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: How does it work?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: We are an NDIS registered provider, so we do work with people on the NDIS, um, and which is fantastic.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: We we did run that pilot program, which got funded to work with people on workers' compensation claims, but that funding ran out.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: So funding for work like what we do is tricky.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: We don't fit neatly into health or arts, and there's still the literacy and understanding of the approach and the evidence base for the approach we have is isn't widely known.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it's an ongoing, you know, um, hill that we are climbing sometimes.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: I understand.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're we're digging the road as we're walking down, you know.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, so I really I get that.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: I really understand.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I think to be honest, often innovation, if you speak to many people who are innovators, which I think you guys, both you girls are, um, that's often the case.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: You're clearly getting great resonance.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um but I suppose, of course, it's not so easy to measure.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I get that.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's not, and it's the connection between creativity and health, those two sectors have really only just at each other.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, are now kind of at policy level where it's starting to be discussed at that level, which will eventually trickle down to funding for tiny little organizations like us.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we are doing something new, we're educating as we're writing about it, as we're delivering it all at once.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think what's happening on the side is that there are a lot of a lot of doctors and a lot of psychologists who are who are really prescribing this method of creativity because they're seeing the results.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's working, it's what's connecting people, it's what's bringing people back to themselves, it's helping them with their anxiety and depression.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: So the prescriptions are already rolling out there, and we definitely are looking forward to the day where it is is funded properly.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm sure.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, in terms of people who want to jump on the platform or who do join, is it how does it work?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: So let's say, is it an individual that joins?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: Is it a an organization?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: Just logistically, how does it work?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: If the listeners who want to engage and make sure so we have a few different ways that we work with people, um, we run just one-off workshops online.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: I ran one last night.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: It was beautiful.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: I had a participant that was in our eight-week program five years ago who said, I just wanted to come back and reconnect.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been telling everyone about you for five years, which is amazing.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we and that was based on our eight-week program.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that's um something that that program people kind of each week explore a different creative practice, and we bring in one of our team of incredible artists that we work with because we find when people learn from an artist that's really in love with their practice, it's very contagious and inspiring.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we do a lot of work with workplaces, and so we've been contracted.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: By councils to go and do work in bushfire and flood-affected communities with residents.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: We've been contracted to come in and run things for teams and staff because we know that burnout is such a big issue at the moment and has been for a while now.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: And there are just some really practical things that our approach can offer that people can start straight away that are, you know, backed up by the science around what causes burnout and what helps burnout.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, if you're a workplace that's looking for that, you can absolutely uh bring us in, bring us in to deliver things either as a one-off or we've designed, you know, a once-a-month kind of facilitated process over a year where we'll come into workplaces and offer and facilitate creative first aid for whole teams.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, and then watch, you know, where we're looking forward to other ways we can innovate in offering this in places and physical locations as well.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's really wonderful.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm, I mean, as a creative myself, and as I said, as people, many creatives come on here, very some high profile, some not so high profile, but all with that absolute passion.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the one thing you do get in the creative space, is you get that extraordinary passion, don't you, for music or art or theater or whatever it is.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I have a feeling that yes, you're just at the beginning of what, even though I know you've been doing this for a while, I think there's a lot of people that will want to tap this wonderful journey that you're on.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: And you've brought them so the book comes out March, and that is 50, 50, uh, just how many?
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: Just I think you said 50.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: I was just prescriptions.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it comes out on the 20.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: Comes out, I think.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: Comes out on February 27th.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, brilliant.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's got a dispensary at the back of the book, which is 50 creative prescriptions that um anyone can do.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need a whole bunch of materials to be able to engage with them.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, they're divided into three categories.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a um a prescription for relief, a quick kind of reset if you're feeling overwhelmed or anxious and you just need two minutes to just reset yourself.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: We've got a bunch of prescriptions, and then we've got another category which is a little longer prescriptions, like 15 to 20 minutes, um, which helps repair your nervous system.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's longer prescriptions like building a whole garden or you know, going into a ceramics studio and making a pot, uh, which is for a deeper restoration of your nervous system.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: So there's divided into categories, and you get to choose your own adventure, which is what creativity is all about.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: You need to find out what actually resonates with you, what works with you for it to work on your nervous system.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's yeah.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, just on that note, I'm thinking, you know how yoga, it's it's an ancient wisdom and it's become really it's in most people's lives in some form, yoga meditation.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: In a sense, I can see that this is sort of the next version of that, where soon it will be just part of what everyone does, and it should be.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we hope so.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we know that um meditation, we all know we've heard a million times how great that is for us, and it is, but for a lot of people, it's so far away, it feels really impossible.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: So play and creative practice is like a stepping stone to meditation.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's yeah, you're still doing something active with your hands, but you can do a repetitive thing that just gets you into that state of being a bit more grounded and regulated and able to kind of calm that fight-flight response.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, even gardening and doing like weeding and things like that, it's just the movement combined with the repetition is actually what steps us there.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really important.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think it's wonderful.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to thank you both for joining me on the What I've Learned podcast.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I'm sure our listeners will be keen to jump on your platform and read your new book uh because really I think it is um it's a universal need what you're doing.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope you're both feeling very calm, focused, and creative during this process, of course, like always.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: We practice what we wrote about every day.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: Takes a little bit of discipline, but yes.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: So well done.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um chat and to meet you both um and good luck with it.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Tim, so much.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Deborah, for having us.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Pleasure.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much for listening.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm blessed to have so many wonderful guests coming on the show.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: So check out my What I've Learned Instagram for updates.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: Meanwhile, stay tuned, kind, and curious.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: Love Deb.