Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Wired To Hunt Podcast #164: Don Higgins’ Quest For Another 200 Inch Buck

Transcript

Wired To Hunt Podcast #164: Don Higgins’ Quest For Another 200 Inch Buck · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. This is episode number one, st
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: and Tan the show. We're joined again by outdoor writer
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: and Illinois bow hunter Don Higgins, and we're discussing in
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: detail his plans and tactics this year for targeting to
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: potential two class bucks. Okay, so real quick, before we
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: get into the show, I want to put a little
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: disclaimer in here, or maybe we'll call it an explainer,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but here's the thing, as you're gonna
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: hearing a little bit. A big part of our discussion
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: today is about one man's goal and plans for trying
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: to kill a two buck this year. And before we
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: get in this conversation and which we do talk a
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: lot about big antlers and high scoring bucks, I just
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: want to preface this whole deal by offering a bit
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: of opinion. My opinion, and it's that I think we
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: should all be careful to remember the inches aren't everything.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: You know, it is easy to get caught up in
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: the whole antler craze and scoring bocks. But if you
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: go too far down that path, or if you go
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: there too soon, I think there's a real risk of
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: lessening your enjoyment of the hunt, or devaluing or disrespecting
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: in some ways the animals that you hunt. We're losing
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: sight of some of the other very important aspects of hunting. Now.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: I'm not trying to say there's anything wrong with scoring
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: deer or getting excited about the score of a buck,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: or setting your own personal goals for deer hunting by
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: using score in some way. That's all well and good,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: and I do that sometimes too. I'm more so caught
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: shooting everyone, just not to get too caught up in
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: what everyone else is doing, or what other people are targeting,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: or what other people are shooting. And I also don't
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: want us to forget the other aspects of deer and
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: hunting outside of antlers. Yes, big antlers are beautiful, they
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: are rare, they are just playing cool. I dig them
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: just as much as the next guy. But we need
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: to be careful not to go too far sometimes on
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: that front. Now, as we get into today's conversation, you're
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: gonna hear us dig into these very thoughts and more
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: detail with Don, and I think he does a really
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: nice job of explaining his own unique perspective on this too.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: But I just want to make sure these ideas are
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: mentioned right at the top as well, not an hour later,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: because I just want you to keep this in the
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: back of your mind as we continue through this conversation.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Anglers are great and fun and a cool way to
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: set personal goals. But meet and challenge and experience and
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: camaraderie and new places and new memories. Those are great
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: and fun and very very important as well. So with
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: all that said, uh, I will kick it back to
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: our regularly scheduled programming now, and we do have a
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: pretty long intro today, f y I somewhere around thirty minutes,
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: so if you're new to the show, you are welcome
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: to skip that and move right into our interview with
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Don and Deer running tactics and all the good stuff
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: we'll be talking about. But be warned if you do that,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: you'll be missing out on some very interesting news. So
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: here goes all right, Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: brought to you by sit K Gear and today we
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: are joined by Don Higgins and outdoor writer and Avid
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Illinois bow hunter and a three time past podcast guest here.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: So today Don's going to discuss with us two pretty
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: interesting topics. First, we're gonna talk a little bit about
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: e h D, which is a disease that many of
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: us fear in the late summer and early fall and
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: starting to pop up across the country. And Don his
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: got his his irons in the fire related to that
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: a little bit, So we're gonna chat about that with Don.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: And then secondly, Don has got a potential two hundred
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: class Buck and his sites for this year, So we're
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: going to dive deep into the story of that Buck,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: his plans, his tactics, his strategies, everything he's hoping to do,
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: planning on doing this season after that Buck, that's what
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: we want to break down, try to hopefully pick his
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: whole game plan apart and see what we can learn
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: from that. So I'm looking forward to that. I think
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: it's gonna be really interesting. But before we bring down
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: on Dan Johnson, Mr co hosting, Mr host, I'm doing
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: good and I don't know if you remember, but last
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: week and last week's episode, I kicked off the episode
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: by telling you it's some big news to share ye
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: right right, I have bigger news to share today. Oh, like,
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: is it like good news or bad news? Depends on
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: your perspective, based on how you talk about this thing
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: over the past few years. Some might say bad. But
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: I'm serious. I'm joining the club. Ship We're gonna have
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: a baby, no ship. Yeah, holy shit. Yea, this would
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: be something that I might might have been prepared for.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: But no, this is the first time her hearing of this. Yeah.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: I had to make sure you got the full effect.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah, man, congratulations, man um, thank you buddy. Yeah,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: where babies come from? Now now we know where they
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: come from. It was a big surprise, but we figured
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: it out. That's awesome. Yeah, pretty pretty crazy. I hate
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: it and love it at the same time. So I
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: so I hear. Yeah, it's gonna be Uh she's a
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: little over three months long, so it's going to be
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: a February baby. That's good timing. Yeah, yeah, I thought
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: so it'll it'll you know, be a little bit of
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: shed hunting impact maybe, but I can I can handle that. Yeah.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: So here's the question, like, have you known for a
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: while or did she just spring it on you? Yeah,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: I've known since May. Okay, all right, So we've known,
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: we've just been keeping it quiet. You know. They say
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: to wait till after like the past the first trimester,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: to make sure that things are going okay, So so far,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: so good, and um yeah we're we're we're ready to
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: talk about it now. So wow, that's awesome, dude. Now
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: on a serious note here, I bitch about my kids
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: and you know, complaining them, but it's all for good fun.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, you're going to absolutely love whatever it is. Like,
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: do you know if it's going to be a boy
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: or a girl. We don't know yet. We are probably
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: gonna find out, but they're not gonna do an ultrasound
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: until later in September, so probably want to get back
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: from all my hunting trips. We'll we'll be able to
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: go do that. I'll tell you what, man, it's a blast.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it's stressful at times, but having having
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: a kid changes your life for the better. I feel. Yeah,
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: it's funny, you know, like you said, you jokingly complain
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: about a lot, but at the same time, like when
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: I get to hear about you, you know, shooting your
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: bow with Mac or taking ava fishing or doing all
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: these different things like that, just like gets me so
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: excited to to somebodybe able to do that. So I
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: just can't wait to share these things that I love
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: so much with with whatever this little rug rat turns
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: out to be. So yeah, it's nuts, it's it's it's crazy,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: but um but yeah it was cool. We um. Oh.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: We had a doctor's appointment back before we left for
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: our western trip at some point in this summer, right
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: and we went in there. I think it was our
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: first doctor's appointment, and they said, you know, we're gonna
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: check for heart sounds, but it's so early, we're most
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: likely not going to hear anything, so that don't worry, um,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: but we'll just check just in case Ace you're here.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: So I was like, we're not gonna hear anything, but
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: you know, like early on, like all these nerves like
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: you're afraid. I don't know, there's like nerves like is
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: it is this real? Is how things going? Okay? So
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: they put this like thing on Kylie's belly and we're
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: moving around and all I could hear were just like
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: these weird like gurgling stomach sounds and stuff, and I'm like, Okay, yeah,
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: we're not gonna hear anything and then like she did
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: like thirty seconds just moving it around and adjusting something
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: on the little device, and all of a sudden like
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: I don't know where, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't don't,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: And that was like it was really really cool. Like
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: I it was like, wow, there is a little living
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: thing growing there. That was pretty wild. It's it's just
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: all very it's wild. Lots of change. I heard the
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: first with with my daughter h It didn't really hit
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: me when I heard her heart beat for the first time,
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: but the first ultrasound where I could hear it and
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: see it and see that it was, you know, this
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: little human is growing inside my wife. I was just like,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it's life changing for me. It was.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: It was it was literally I have to now become
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: a better person type of thing, you know. So yeah, congrats,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Like it's like I could sit here and talk to
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: you about you know. It's like I'm I know Don
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: has a two in on his line, but I almost
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: feel like we should make this parenting episode. Well that's
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: why I told you we had to get on early
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: today because I knew you'd want to. We want to
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: talk about this, right right, Oh man, that's nuts. Yeah,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: so it's it's yeah, it's gonna be my last hunting
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: season without a child, so it's good that I'm going
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: big this year, right, that's right. But yeah, so now
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: you're not going to have exclusive rights to complaining about
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: kids and talking to on the podcast. It's kind of funny.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: My boss, uh, my boss uh says to me today,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: he goes, I said, I feel like every year I'm
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: I'm hunting less and less and less. He's like, don't worry.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: In eighteen years, you'll be freed up again. And I'm
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: just like, he's right, But that's almost like an insult.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: That's a long time. It's like it's like a prison sentence.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: Don't worry, you'll be out someday. Oh man. The key is,
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: you just gotta get him into it earlier, right as
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: soon as as soon as they start going to the
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: true with you, then you're set right and then I
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: can tell the way I'm taking I'm taking so and
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: so with me. We'll be back at dark exactly exactly.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna I'm gonna, hopefully by age two or less,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: little little Kenyan is going to be in the woods
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: that they hopefully. So check this out right, kind of
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: mixing it up with how you're currently living out west.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: You know, you've got that camper, you got that, um uh,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: this lifestyle which I'm sure you're going to involve your
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: child in. All right, you're gonna get you know probably.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: I mean you can still go do that with with
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: a kid, maybe not the long overnight hikes and Grizzly
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Bear country. But but my wife comes up to me
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: the other day and she's like, man, I really want
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: to raise our you know, have our kids outside more,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: and I think we should like live kind of like
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: and you know, more of an outdoor lifestyle. And she
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: so she wants to start looking at campers, right, So
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: I have like four pamphlets on my desk here of
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: like a variety of campers with you know that would
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: sleep five people. So I cannot imagine. I cannot imagine
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: how fast you jumped on that plat within seconds of
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: her saying it. And you're like, yep, all right, I'm shopping,
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: let's go. No. No, she brought that up and I
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: think this weekend and because we went to the Iowa
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: State Fair last weekend and they at the Iowa State
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Fair they had a whole bunch of trailers you could
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: look at, travel trailers, you could look at So we've
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: gone to two dealers we looked at the travel trailers.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: So it was like, in in one week, we've already
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: done a lot of shopping. Yeah exactly, and I'm just like,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: let's do it because I'm all about that stuff. I know,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: and we we've even talked about the same thing, like
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: how you know, what's how do you help make this
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: more comfortable and appealing to the rest of your family
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: and stuff? And that's awesome that she's so she brought
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: this to you. Yeah, yeah, so maybe I'm wearing on her.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it's one of those things where okay,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: this ought to shut him up, or if she actually
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: likes it. Either way, don't don't ask questions, Dan, just
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: go exactly not smile. Best advice my dad evergame. That's
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: awesome though. Well, one of these summers we'll have to
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: you have to bring the whole family on out and
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: we can we can meet up out here. Yeah. So wait,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: when is so? When's the D date? I think it's
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: it's somewhere early to mid February. They haven't been given
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: us an official due date yet, but like you know,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: doing the math, that's when it should be somewhere on there.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: So our kids are literally gonna be like four or
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: five months apart only. Yeah, it's true. Yeah, you're most
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: recent one, the one coming up here. That's right. Oh boy,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: we we there. There could be some competition that could
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: be our competition actually, or instead of a trail camera,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: bet we do a child that who's going to kill
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: the first? Dear? You know? A child? Bet where? Okay,
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: you have to babysit my kids, I'll meet the wife,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: go out. I have to take care of your kid
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: while you and the wife go out, all right, yeah,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: and so so if you lose, you have to drive
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: six hours to come baby high stakes. I like it,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: that's right, right it. I don't know, dude, that's awesome.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: It's just I'm sure your wife is all excited and
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: she's already talking about names, and you know, if it's
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: gonna be a boy or if it's gonna be a girl.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: You know, women do all that stuff. Guys really don't
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: care too much. But I've been I've been thinking about
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: it all too. You know. It's a it's yeah, just
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: just lots and loss to think about. You know, I
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know how to plan for this.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know how to do this, but figuring out
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: as we go, and uh, you know, I think we're
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: Kylie's you know, had a lot of the same challenges
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: that a lot of women I think have, Like early trimester,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: she was sick for a while and now she's just
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: like super fatigued. Um. So, like we've we've still done
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: some backpacking trips. We're doing been doing hikes and stuff,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: but we've been trying to keep it pretty chill. Like
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: we did a backpacking trip this past weekend in Yellowstone,
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: but I picked one specifically that would be like almost
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: no elevation game. We just stayed in like a river
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: valley the whole time. Um, So she can do that stuff,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: but she's been struggle in a high elevation. We've had
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: two different nights where we tried to just camp um
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: above eight thousand feet, which isn't that high out here,
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: but both times, like in the middle of the night,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: she was like getting like, uh struggles, like breathing and stuff.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: It's like right away, like as soon as you started
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: feeling I was like all right, we don't. Let's just
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: let's just turn around and go down the hill. Um.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: So we did that. But you know, talking to doctors
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: and everything, they said, everything should be fine on here.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Just listen to your body. So that's what that's what
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: we've been doing. And so far, so good. Um. But yeah,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: it's been it's been a little different. But to your
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: point earlier, we're definitely still planning on, you know, continuing
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: to live the lifestyle we are and just incorporate, you know,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: incorporate the little one into it. And and yeah, it's
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: gonna it's gonna be a little bit different. Um. But
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: I'm now obviously I've never parented before, so I have
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: no idea. But from an outside perspective looking in, I
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: feel like you don't have to let the child completely
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: change your life. You can incorporate a child into your
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: life and making a part of that. And so that's
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: what we're hoping to do, is is to you know,
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: this isn't the end of our life in anyway. This
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: is just the beginning, getting a new phase and bringing
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: in an awesome and an awesome new uh friend into
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: the mix, getting company exactly, which will be good because
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: I'm tired of talking to Kylie all the time. So
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: it's like, after okay, how many years have you guys
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: been married? Uh, this will be four years I think
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: coming up this September, right, So like after a certain
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: period of time, there's not really much to talk to
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: your wife about anyway, So you need a kid so
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: that the conversation stays fresh. So I got I got
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: about eighteen years of easy riding ahead of me now,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: and then after that then I got to think about
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: new conversation starters. That's right. Well, at that age, your
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: wife won't care about you anyway, so just just just
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: leave me alone. Yeah, as long as the bills are paid,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: it's all good, exactly exactly. So yeah, man, we'll have
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: a lot of interesting things to share is this whole
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: process goes through. But we'll definitely need to talk more
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: in future episodes or are off air to get some
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: parenting advice and all that. Right, Um, I gotta I
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: got a quick question for you. Run this. Run this
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: by your wife. Though. If I shoot, for some reason,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: shoot a two inch buck and I'm talking measured out,
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: not net, but gross. If I shoot a gross two
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: buck this year, can I name your child? You know
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: it's it's fine by me. Um, but you're right, you
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: have to run it by Kylie Dallas Fort Kenyon. That's
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: got a nice ring to it. Oh gosh. Yeah, it's
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: gonna be an interesting, interesting journey out of us, that's
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: for sure. All right, So as we often do, right, uh,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: we we've talked enough about kids first off. Congratulations, Yes,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: enough about kicks. Now. I saw some videos online, right, Uh,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: went on a little scouting mission recently, and I dude,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming that for Montana what you saw was a
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: really good night of glassing. Yeah. They were nice bucks, um,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean in more than just I mean,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: I saw so many deer, so many deers, so many bucks.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Like in one little clip, I've got like fifteen different
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: bucks in one shot, and like three or four or
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: five of them are all like pretty darn nice um right,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it was fun, tons of deer, some nice bucks.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: There was one buck already hard warned that I saw, yeah,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: completely shut of velvet. So that was really surprising to see.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: So question, then, with Montana having such a high population
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: of deer, you know, I mean it sounds to me
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: like out there in certain pockets and spots I mean
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: I've I've talked with guys who are saying, you know,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: it's easy to see fifty two a hundred deer in
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: and now a big off alpha field, right, definitely. So
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: with that, is there also a higher age class. Yeah,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's much better now. I don't know how
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: it would compared to Iowa, but compared to Michigan, much
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: much better age structure because I think there's just there's
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: so little pressure on these deer compared to back in
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: the Midwest. In the East, white tails are here just
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: they're not people aren't very interested in them. So most
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: of these deers starn't getting hunted at all. All the
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: hunting is being done up in the mountains for muleis
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: and elk and all that good stuff. Um, the white
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: tails are just kind of like the vermin of the
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: West that kind of bump around in the river bottoms
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: and stuff and people just pass them on by. So
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: so yeah, I mean you see lots of old bucks, okay,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: so that there's an age structure there that you know,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: they just don't have the because for me, it's almost
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: like it's it's stagger. There's a lot so one year
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: olds there's even I mean there's then there's just a
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: little bit less two years old, two year olds, there's
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: a little bit less three year olds, there's a you know,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: there's just a handful of four year olds, and then
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: from there it gets very rare, right, you may have
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: two or three I'm and I'm talking about my farm.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: So you know, like this year, I think I have five,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: maybe five deer that are going to be so far
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: you know, this is based off my last trail camera check,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: like five, five or six deer that are four year
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: old or older. Right when I have probably ten fifteen
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: deer that are in the one two and you know,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: one and two year olds, and maybe fifteen that are
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: in the three year old range. So out there is
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: there a is it even like there's ten ten one
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: year olds, ten two year olds, ten three year olds,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: ten four year olds, or does it also kind of
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: get staggered off as you get to the older age classes?
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: You know, I it's hard to say. I just haven't
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: been able to study it close enough, you know, and
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: you looked at pictures and seeing deer for years and years. Um,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: I would guess it's still declines a little bit simply
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: because there are there are still mortality factors that make it,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: you know, difficult, more difficult for bucks to make it
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: to six than it is to make it to one.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: But I think it's it's more even then a lot
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: of places, not practically but more so at least, um
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: dramatically more still than Michigan or Pennsylvania or Georgia or
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: South Carolina. Um. But but maybe not too much different
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: than Iowa or Kansas. UM. But just the number of
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: the sheer number of deer makes it so you just
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: see a lot more of these. But I mean it
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: just seems like I see just in driving around or
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: when I was out hunting, there's a lot of deer
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: that looked like they could be you know, four or
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: five six years old, um from first glance. So now
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: I mean when it comes to like you know, antlers,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: you're not seeing a bunch like one sixties or anything. UM.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: But I mean, you know, lots of nice bucks, especially
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: for a Michigan guy. Like maybe like when I see
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: au or in thirty class buck or a hundred forty
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: class buck, I'm pumped about that um or any mature
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: buck really. So I mean, you see, you see a
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: nice number of those types of deer. So last night,
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, just a whole bunch of really good looking
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: bucks that just got me pretty fired up. So that
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: was fun. What was the biggest one you thought you saw?
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: There was probably like high one thirties, maybe somewhere around there.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: There's a ten point, there was maybe maybe one forty um,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: and then like tons of eight pointers. There's a lot
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: of big eight pointers that were probably like hundred thirty
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: class eight pointers, um, but like a lot of them. Um.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Like in one field, like there was two big off
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: off the fields, and there's a road in the middle,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: like a main highway in the middle, and these deer
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: were coming off the hills, coming into one field, crossing
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: the road, crossing the highway basically and going into other fields.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: So on either side of me, like the herd was
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: kind of split up. I would say on the left
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: side there was probably five bucks that would be in
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: that class, and on the right side there was probably
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: another four or five bucks in that class. Um, plus
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: god ungodly number of doughs and fawns and young bucks
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: and stuff. So it's just fun. It's just fun to
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: see deer like that, right, So what other species are
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: you are you fine like seeing I mean, are you
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: seeing mule deer or moose or elk or antelope while
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: you're out doing these drives as well? So depends on
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: where you're at. Where I'm at right now, I'm down
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: in a big river valley, so just muley's a lope
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: and white tails. But there's definitely other places where I've
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: been where I have seen moose while out moose and
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: elk while doing these drives. I'm sure I could see
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: some elk if I went a little bit up into
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: the mountains a little bit more, not even in the mountains,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: still in the hills a little bit um, because they
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: definitely are down in the valleys right now too. Um.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: But yeah, this is my first deer drive while I've
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: been out here, so I'm gonna go out here in
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: the next few nights. And unfortunately these aren't deer I
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: could hunt. This isn't we're camping. We're camping in a a
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: different place than where I'm going to be able to hunt.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Where I'm hunting is still kind of far away. But
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: this is just for fun. This is just for fun. Yeah, perfect.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: So that said, from from everything I've seen and and
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: know about these two other areas I'll be hunting the
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: one that I hunted last year and the other spot
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: that's new. It should be pretty comfortable to this. So. Um,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: speaking of bucks, Yeah, I uh, I got my Ohio
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: trail camera pictures checked. Finally. I know you sent me
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: a couple of them, and I'm that that one. Did
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: you post a picture of that one yet that you
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: sent me? I posted a picture of one of them,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: the really big like eight pointer. Okay, yeah, the picture
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: that you sent me. I think it's the same buck.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: Look like the one I told you. He looks like
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: he's thirty inches wide. Like he just looks really really wide.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: I that to me is like I don't care really
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: about too much about numbers, like, oh that's a booner
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: or whatnot, but that buck is huge and just looks
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: cool character wise. Oh yeah, he's a he's a stud.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: There's a He's probably the best buck that we have
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: on camera. Um. And I actually looked through pictures we
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: have him last year too. Um. But he was a
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: buck that we never really saw during the season. We
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: never actually saw him in person, but we did get
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: pictures of him a couple of times during the season.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: A lot in the summer, um, so he could be around.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: There's another buck. Um that's a nice ten pointer, a
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: little smaller than this one, but still pretty nice. He
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: was on camera a lot last year. Um, but none
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: of the bucks like that we knew that we had
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: named in that we've seen in past years. I don't
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: have any of those bucks back. Um, but I've got
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: mm hmm, like four or five different for sure, nice
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: mature bucks. Um, you know, from like onet to one
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: sixty or somewhere around there. Um. So so yeah, some
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: good ones. Uh. There's a really really big seven pointer actually,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: um not you know, nothing to matter, it's not gonna
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: score all that well, but supermature and it's a cool
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: looking buck. So that's cool. Um. And you just never
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: know what shows up throughout the season. So so long
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: story short, it's a nice bucks. It's good to see
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: there will be some good prospects this year. Not I
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: didn't see my booner that the booner before thirty. I
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: don't think there's one of those on camera yet. But
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: they're there, always a chance in that neighborhood. So that's right.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: I when when you sent me that, I was starting
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: to think about your property and because earlier this year
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: and even into late last year, you guys didn't have
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: too much for you know, bucks that would stand out, right,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: and you didn't have too many of an older age
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: class on that farm. Well, we we have pictures of them,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: we just weren't seeing them, Okay, So nocturnal, Yeah, a
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: lot of nocturnal activity. Um. Now when I went back,
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: and the thing is, you know, we just didn't get
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: down there very often. So we hunted it opening weekend
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: last year, and then we didn't go back down until
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: the rut, and then we hunted for like our week
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: during the rut, and then I filled my tags. I
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: didn't go back the whole season. Josh just went back
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: I think just one time. Um. So we weren't checking
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: cameras all that often. Um. But now that we've you know,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: I've looked through all the pictures and stuff. There's still
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: a lot of nice old bucks that are coming through there.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: But but yes, most of it was dark. Um. And
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: you know, like we've talked about the past, it's just
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: like you have a lot of really really slow days
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: and then ever once in a while though, you have
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: a giant come through. Right. Is there a is there
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: a dough group that calls that property home. There is
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: there's at least two there's two pretty good dope betting
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: areas where there's always a family group on that property.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: So so yeah, there's at least that No, Okay, cool, Well,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: at least you got some perspective or some whatever that
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: work is prospects, prospects. There we go. I'm an idiot.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: We've got we've got prospects. So and yeah, like I
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: talked about last week, you know, I think I'm just
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: gonna take it easy there, waited it out and see
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: what I can see. Um, and who knows, you never
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: know what can show up done. But you know, even
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: though I you know, last year or last week I
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: kiddingly talked to I want to shoot a booner this year. Um,
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: if one of these really big mature bucks comes by,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: you know, it's it's pretty darn hard to pass on
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: a deer like that because that's that's a great buck.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: And they don't they don't come by easily. So right,
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: so yeah, if I'll send you these other pictus a
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: couple other picks. I just Josh has been uploading them
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: up to like up into the cloud, and I've just
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: been paging through them today, so I just got finally
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: got to look at a lot of these, So I'll
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: send you a few more, and I'll post some stuff
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: online too for people to see. We got to name
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: these bucks, though, because these aren't bucks that I've um,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: you know, we've not really seriously followed them in the past,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: so we haven't named them. We don't really know him
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: too well, but but I do have some pictures I
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: can look back at now and start to try to
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: figure them out a little bit. So the fun will
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: begin owner City too. Maybe do you cringe every time
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: I opened my mouth, like just a tiny bit in
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: my heart like skips. I'm like, oh gosh, what now?
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Why do I keep this guy around? Uh? Man, you
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: make me laugh? Mr Johnson, I will give you that. Well.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: We we need to we need to shut this sucker
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: down real quick because we gotta get Don on the
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: line with us here. So, um, no more baby talk,
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: no more Ohio buck talk. It's time to talk to
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Don about some giant Illinois bucks. So let's take a
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: break for our siest story and then we'll get Don
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Higgins on the line. For this week's sit of story.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: We're joined by Montana wild Zach Boughton, who tells us
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: about a memorable high country mule deer hunt where you
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: tagged out in the last week of the season. One
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: of my favorite hunting moments was a couple of falls ago,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: last week of season. We're trying to find big mature
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: mule deer buck, and we went back to a spot,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: but I just kind of had a gut feeling was
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: going to produce. Had never seen a big buck in
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: the area, and got there early temperatures were dipping down
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: just below zero, and we just slowly started climbing the mountain,
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: trying to hike slow so you don't get too sweaty.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Definitely glad we had the right layers for that day
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: and got up on the mountain and and made a
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: decision to keep going. I had thought about going back
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: down the mountain. I hadn't seen a lot of game.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: And next thing you know, we come through the timber
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: look up on the hillside and here is just a
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: big four point mule deer buck, exactly what I was
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: looking for. Got down. The buck had no clue I
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: was there, put it behind his shoulder and squeeze the trigger,
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: and that was the end. Of it and walking up
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: on that buck was probably four or five years worth
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: of time spent in the mountains to try to find
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: that buck, and it was super reward and that's probably
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: one of my favorite moments from the last couple of years.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Super demanding hunt and spent a lot of time on
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: the mountain looking for a buck of a certain size
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: and maturity that we honestly had never laid eyes on
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: before I filled my tag on Zack's hut. He was
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: wearing Scause timberline pants and traverse hoodie. If you'd like
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: to create a sick of story of your own, or
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: to learn more about sit because technical hunting apparel, visit
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: sicky gear dot com. All right, we are back now
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: with Don Higgins. Welcome back to the show down. Well
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: thanks for having me again. It's always a pleasure, absolutely
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: we h you might be our first four time guests,
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: so you are in what you are in rare company
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: because I think you're the only one there. So we
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: we have enjoyed chatting with you in the past, that's
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: for sure. I live at the bottom of the barrel,
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: so if you're always faith in the bottom of the barrel,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: you're gonna find me, you should. You should at least
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: get him a gift basket for being a four timer.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: That's the least we could do, right, well, well done,
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: other than scraping the bottom of the barrel. In life,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: How are things going for you this summer? Fantastic. I've
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: waited thirteen years to have another two to hunt, and
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: I may actually have to this year to go after
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: one of the box is definitely over two. The other one.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: I haven't got a real good picture of him yet,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: although I do have several pictures, but he's always at
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: a distance, and I know he's bigger than last year,
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: and last year he's in the one eighties, so you
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: know there's a good chance that he could hit two
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: hundred as well. And then the real world widlife products
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: has just exploded in the last year or so, so
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: you know things are going fantastic there as well. That's yeah,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: I'd say that's pretty good to that's and that's that
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: is one of the things we want to talk to
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: you about today, because you mentioned that to me earlier,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: this little earlier this summer, and my my game plan
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: here done in a little bit, is to try to
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: grill you in as much detail as possible to understand
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: how exactly you're gonna hunt those deer, that deer or
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: both of them. Um, but you mentioned that, you mentioned uh,
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: real life, real I'm gonna get my words on next year.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: You mentioned something that I want to make sure we
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: touch on because with your company, you have some things
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: going on related to some concerns that people are talking
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: about right now related to e h D. And there
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: have been reports of e h D popping up already
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: this summer that I've seen in Kentucky, in Pennsylvania, and
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: and Dan, you've been hearing about some stuff in southern Iowa, right,
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: you have some rumblings. I I talked with a guy
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: earlier today and there's no e h D on his
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: farm as of now, but he had it real bad
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: the last time there was an outbreak. Yeah, So so
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: what are you hearing on that front and down around
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: by you? Any reports of h G. Well, I've only
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: heard a couple here in Illinois, but Kentucky seems to
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: be getting hit pretty hard at the And you know,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: the h D typically starts in the southern states, and
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: I know for a fact they were having it, uh,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: you know light down in Texas, Oklahoma, in June, and
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: it's just it's slowly moved north as a summers who
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: are on so it's around I'm sure that you know,
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: we've we've got probably what two months before we have
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: a at least a month and a half before we
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: have a frost probably to imagine that. So I'm sure
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: we haven't heard the worst of them. It's just getting
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: fired up here in the Midwest, right right. It does
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: seem that usually it's it's a little bit later in
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: the summer early fall when you start hearing about the
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: worst of it. Um is he h D something done
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: that you can for people that aren't familiar with the disease,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: that you can speak to a little bit of the
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: basics about. You know, if if someone hasn't already heard
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: about exactly what this is, could you fill them in. Yeah,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: I'm certainly no expert on the h D. But the
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: h D is a virus that's usually fatal. The white
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: tails I have spread abiding midge nap um. It's worse
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: than on hot dry years and drought years. The midge
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: and at breeds in the mud along the shores of water,
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: especially stagnant water, you know, along pond banks and such
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: and in dry years, as these water sources dry up,
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: um the deer concentrated around the remaining water and and
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: it's just the perfect breeding grounds for the midge gnat
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: that carries this virus. So that's why it's worse on
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: those years. It's almost always fatal, but not a d
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: percent of the time. But the thing it is a
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: lot of the deer that that do survive or are
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: left in pretty poor shape and later succumbed to other
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: issues such as pneumonia or things like that. So in
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: two thousand twelve, when we had the worst drought that
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: I can remember in my fifty plus years, we had
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: a terrible e h D outbreak in the Midwest. Uh,
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: in my area locally, it's just about wiped up here.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: We literally had less than of what we had the
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: year before as far as a deer heard. And it's
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: made to come back in the five years since, but
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: it's still is not to the level at well for
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: that HD outbreak. So the worst thing we need now
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: another setback before the herd is fully recovered around here. Yeah,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: that's for sure. Yeah, I feel like so many people
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: across the Midwest experienced that tough two thousand twelve. I
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: know by me in Michigan, it was really bad. I
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: know some properties where people found, you know, thirty dead
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: deer and their properties. Um, some of my really good
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: friends there, their places were just decimated and they're still,
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: like you said, still kind of recovering. Now. UM. I
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: know some spots not too far from you, Dan in
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: south central Iowa allowed those places down there got hit
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: really hard. I mean, to your point done, I don't
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: think anyone wants to have another setback like that. So
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: fingers crossed. I don't know I checked this last week.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: I haven't checked since last week, but um, you know
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: you can go online and you can see the drought
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: monitor map for the whole country and where the worst
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: drought is and stuff. And I did see that there's
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: some very serious drought in south central Iowa and then
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: um Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana. That section of
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: the country there's some very significant drought. Um. It's not
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: quite as bad to the to the northeast or the
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: southeast as it has been in some past years, but
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: there's definitely some pockets where you could see that happening.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: So I know there's a lot of people concerned, especially now,
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: you know, I saw some people posting videos from Iowa
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: with some bucks that looked like they might have it
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: that we're just kind of walking around in the middle
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: of the road, um, in bad shape, And you definitely
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: don't want to see that, right Yeah, because once it hits,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: you know, it's here here in the area, and until
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: the frost killed that Midge Matt, it can just totally
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: wipe out the herds and small localized areas, right it.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: And so I mean, after two twelve, I feel like
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: so many people were talking about h D because of
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: what a significant impact it made. Um, everyone's been talking
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: how how can we you know, what can we do
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: about it? You know, how can we his hunters try
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: to prevent it? Um? And up until this point, I
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: haven't really heard of anything that can really be done
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: to to try to deal with it, I know. Um.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: You know, Mark Drewy talked to me earlier this summer
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: about the fact that he was concerned about h D
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: up by him, and so his idea, him and I
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: think Grant Woods had talked about it. An idea they
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: had was to try to, you know, to try to
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: deal with the implications of drought they put out a
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: bunch of water tanks like all over the properties, water
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: everywhere to try to reduce that you know, congregating effect
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: that you mentioned where all the deer go to the
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: few limited places of water, and then that's also where
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: these midges are breeding. So one idea he had just
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: try to put put out supplemental water sources everywhere to
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: try to minimize that. I don't really know how that's
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: worked out for him since, but that was one idea
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: i'd heard of. UM. But I know that you with
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: your company, you've been kind of looking into and possibly
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: have something that can help with us too. UM. I'm
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: curious to learn more about it because I don't know
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: much about it yet. UM. I'd love to hear what
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: you guys have been working on and how you think
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: it may may be able to help. Yeah, it's a
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: product we call Expect Healthy Deer Technology, and we at
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Real World did not come up with with this product.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: In fact, it's kind of an interesting story. We had
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: a seed testomer in Iowa that's been loyal to our
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: brand for several years, and then two years ago or
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: maybe a little longer than three years ago, maybe we
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: came out with a deer mineral, and uh, you know,
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: we did an email blast promoting this deer menteral, and
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: and this customer from Iowa contacts this and says, Hey,
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: I love your seed and I'm going to continue buy
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: your seat, but I'm not going to buy your mineral
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: because I've been getting this dear mineral I really like
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: from this livestock nutritionist in Missouri. And he said, you
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: really need to meet this guy because he came up
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: with something to combat the h D and you really
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: need to meet him. And I just kind of blew
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: it off. And this customer kept calling, you know, every
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: couple of months or so. You have you met the guy?
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: He hat, I gave you his number, Did you call him? How?
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: We haven't? And you know, I was very skeptical and
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: just kind of blew it off at nothing. And he
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: was talking to the nutritionists as well, to tell him him,
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: you need to meet these guys from real world, and
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: I bet they can market your product for you. And
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: he was just blowing the guy off to you know,
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: and finally, out of more out of into our customer,
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: we met with the nutritionist and you know, he gave
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: us the spell about what he had done actually in
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: two thousand and twelve, his area in northern Missouri was
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: hit really hard with the h D and that fall,
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: you know, he was hunting and seeing almost no dear,
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: and he was just contemplating if he was sitting in
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: a stand with nothing else to do because there was
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: no deer walking by, he was contemplating how he could
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: leverage his knowledge of livestock tricition that possibly combat the
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: h D and white tails. And he started experimenting, and
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: he had a buddy down the road that raised his
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: captive there, and he would experiment with some of his
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: concoctions on that Guy's heard and expanded a little bit
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: by the time we finally met with him, and and
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: through a series of meetings, we ended up getting the
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: marketing rights to it. Um he pretty much had the
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: formula perfection to that point, and but we told him
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: when we signed the marketing agreement that we was not
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: taking it to market just based on his word. Not
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: that we didn't trust him, but you know, we wasn't
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: gonna put our reputation on the line until we had
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: done some testing of our own, and so we set
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: up some Captive heard some tests, and Captive Heard last
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: year in ten different states, you know, from Oklahoma, Nebraska, Kansas,
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: up through Missouri, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, through the Midwest
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: and into the South a little bit. And uh, we
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: tested about it was on about thousand captive deer in
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: those ten states and various herds, and not a single
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: deer was lost to h D. UH last following those
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: herds that was getting it. And but the thing of
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: it was, you know, we wasn't sure if they would
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: have been lost even if they were not fed the product,
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: because we didn't know if they heard, you know, I'd
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: been infected. Last year wasn't a real bad year for
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: h D. So this year we really expanded the testing
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: and I mean we've got it. Uh, there's probably ten
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: thousand captive deer right now on the products. Now. We
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: went down to my partner and I flew to Dallas,
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: Texas back in April at a big deer farmers or
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: deer breeders event down there to talk with people and
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: gets product. The Texas Deer Breeders Kill Off got on
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: board with us UH to help us test it. And
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: to make a long story short, you know, I was
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: extremely skeptical at first and in fact, there was nobody
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: more skeptical than I was, so so skeptical that I
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: didn't even contact the the nutritionists who developed it for
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: months and months after hearing them. But I'm telling you what,
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: the reports we're getting this summer just totally blot away
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: even my expectations or hopes for the product it were.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: It's being fed right now, and the herds that already
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: had e h D, they were already, you know, dragging
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: dead deer out of the pens before they ever started
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: on this product. And the phone is literally ringing off
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: the hook now from captive deer leaders that that are
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: wanting to get their hands on this stuff. And you know,
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: we probably shipped two semi loads of this stuff and
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: it's used like a hundred pounds of it in a
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: ton of deer feed, so it's pretty concentrated. And we've
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: sent like two semi loads this stuff just to Texas.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: And we've also got a note home. We got all
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: the way across the south of Florida. There's a test
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: being done at the University of Florida on it UM
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: and it's just kind of snowballed. We did that. We
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: commissioned a test at the University of Minnesota earlier in
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: the year and one of the leading virologists in the country.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: UH test product in the lab and found that there
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: was two ingredients in the product that killed the live
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: v HD virus within two hours in the lab. Now
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: how that translates into live dear, we don't know, but
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: but I can tell you I was a little bit.
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: I was pretty excited about that, and that's what really
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: got people's attention. But that is nothing compared to what's
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: happening these deer fans uh Um. Last week, for example,
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: that I had a guy from Alabama call and he
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: was so excited. He said, you guys don't understand what
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: you've got here. You better you better buy a bigger
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: male to make this stuff, because you've just cured cancer
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: and white tales. And I want to stress that's his word,
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: is not mine, Um, But we are extremely excited about
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: what we're here, and just in the past three or
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: four weeks, and and actually, if you have talked to
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: me a month ago, I was still somewhat skeptical, but
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: my skepticism over the past two or three years has
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: been slowly replaced with optimism. And right now my skepticism
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: is very, very low because the reports just keep coming
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: in daily. And it's not just from one person in
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: one state. I mean, it's across the entire South basically
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: from Oklahoma, Texas, Alabama, Florida, Georgia. Those states have been
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: dealing with the h D for the past two months.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: Well we're just now starting to see it the Midwest,
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: and uh not, I'm telling you we got a game
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: changer here. I think we're going to know a whole
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: lot more. Uh you know, later in the fall, after
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: the h D season is over, everyone that's every captive
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: deer breeder that's feeding the product now is going to
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: be surveyed, uh you know, to see exactly how many
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: deer they did lose the h D when they started
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: feeding the product and when the deer died in relation
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: to you know, how many days after they started feeding
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: in things. But uh, it's it's just looking fantastic at
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: the moment, Huh. I mean, it's it's certainly interesting. And
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: I mean I obviously by no means and with all
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: due respect, um, but just given the fact I don't
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: know a whole a lot about it, this is by
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: no means an endorsement in any way but it's interesting
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: to hear about because I know so many of us
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: are concerned about e h D. And if, if you know,
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: if what you guys are studying this summer continues to
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: show such positive results, I think that is very exciting
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: for everyone. UM. Now here's a question. I don't know
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: if I don't know if this is something you can
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: answer yet or not. Um, but if this is applied
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: to a wild deer herd, you know, as an average
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: deer hunter have enough property I can hunt and I'm
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: concerned about h D. And if it turns out that
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: the studies continue to show this does seem to have
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: an impact, do you have any idea of what kind
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: of scale I need to have as far as or
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: how long? How long do would I need to be
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: feeding this to the deer? What type of scale I
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: mean does this need to be? I mean, am I
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: dumping out hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pounds of this?
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: Or I don't know those questions you can answer yet?
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: Are are we still kind of figuring things out? Well?
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: The real challenge is going to be you know, I
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: think at this point I personally am convinced that it works.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: Now to what degree it works. I don't know. I
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: don't know if we can we save fifty of the
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: deer that what otherwise died. Can we save of the
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: deer that but otherwise died p h D. I don't
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: know what the percentages, but I am absolutely convinced we
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: can save deer. The challenge is going to be, like
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: you mentioned with a wild deer that you know, they've
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: they've got to consume the products, and we really don't
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: have the answers to how much they need to consume
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: and how often they need to consume it because the
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: tests we're seeing this year is kind of this summer
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: and the captive heard it just kind of blown our
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: thoughts out of the water. You know, we thought that
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: they were going to need to be on it for
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: thirty to forty five days ahead of the h D
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: season to load up their systems, but we're not seeing
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: that in the captive deer. I mean, guys are losing
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: deer the h D and they're they're starting to hurt
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: on it, and the deaf losses are are stopping a
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: whole lot quicker than what we expected. So I mean
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: there's a whole lot more unknowns and moans. But the
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: one thing we do know is that it's working to
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: some degree. So have you guys done an official test
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: where you put a deer with c w D tested positive?
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: Excuse me e h D. Excuse me, a deer with
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: e h D isolated him, put that, put the mineral
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: in the pen with him, and then fed him a
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: certain amount of days, and then he was cured the
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: next like however many days later. Well, I don't think
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: we're ready to say we've done that, but we've got
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: reports from some of these guys that are, you know,
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: have the captive herds, that the deer are absolutely coming
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: down with d h D, absolutely not going off seed,
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: not anything, and pulling out of it within a matter
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: of two or three days. If the guys that are saying,
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: you know, if I would have seen that last year,
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: and my dear fan, I would have known one that
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: I was going to be burying that deer the next day.
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: The next day, I'm going out there and I can't
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: tell that the deer was sick except for some drooling,
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: you know, out of its mouth and stuff. And within
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: three days you can't even tell that there was ever
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: sick and never stopped eating or anything. And again, I'm
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: just sharing some stories, and I don't want anybody to
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: take this as I'm saying this is what's gonna happen.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: There's a whole lot that we don't know, but but
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: I can tell you that it's working to some degree. Yeah, yeah,
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: I think that. I think it's I think it's it's
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: it's interesting, and I think to your point, there's a
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: lot of unknown still, but help me as intrigued, help
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: me as intrigued. So I would love to follow, continue
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: to follow the reports and what results you guys get back.
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: And I think, you know, as your tests start to
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: come through and and more is better understood, I think it's, uh,
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: it's gonna be something very interesting. So so keep us
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: posted on that done. And I appreciate you sharing some
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: of these kind of early results and thoughts on it
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: so far. I know a lot of people will be
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: interested to hear about this and and hopeful that there
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: is something that's going to be, you know, proven to
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: be super helpful in the future. So I got my
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: fingers crossed for you. Yeah, we're absolutely gonna put out
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: the test results. Uh, you know, I don't know how
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: long it's gonna take to get all the surveys in
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: and you know, winning h D season is going to end,
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: but we're hoping by the end of the year we're
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: gonna be able to put out a report that says,
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: in two thousand seventeen, this product was fed to you know,
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: X number of captive deery and next number of states,
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: and an X number of herbs, X number of animals
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: were lost to e H d UM and then share
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: some of the level stories from the various captive deer
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: farmers that that set it um. You know, I never
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: would have even if I would have heard the stories
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: that I've heard in the last two or three weeks,
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: I would just blowing them off, because I'm telling you,
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: at the beginning, I was as skeptical as anyone. And
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: I understand people's skepticism. I mean, I've heard it, and
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: there's not hardly a day goes by that I don't
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: get an email or something on Facebook from somebody saying,
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: no way, it's snake oil. This man. I understand that
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: a hundred percent because it just seems too good to
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: be true. But right now it certainly appears that's the
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: way it's aheaded m Well, so is this treated treated
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: like an antibiotic where they they you know, get it
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: in their system and it creates a h an immunity
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: to to that or is it does it kill it? Well,
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: we're not sure. It's not an antibiotic. It's all natural.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: So there's no FDA regulations or anything. Uh. Anybody can
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: buy it. Anybody can feed it, UH, at least on
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: in states towards legal um. It can be fed in
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: mineral or in feed. We're even looking at some other
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: options of how to get it into the deer. But again,
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: there's just so many unknowns that I hate making statements
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: because I don't want to be held to him later
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: if something proves out different. But you know, I can
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: just tell you it's working to some degree. And and
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: then then and then there was that the University of
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: Minnesota test that did show that it did kill certain
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: ingredients in the product, did kill the virus in the lab.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: Correct that that's true, right, Yeah, And that's correct. And
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: you know it was developed basically to to work in
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: three ways. First of all, to repel the midge, and
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: that to keep the deer from getting in the first place.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: And that's not always possible, but if you can prevent
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: some of the differ from ever getting the virus. Uh,
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: then you don't have to worry about treatment or curing
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: it or whatever. And then uh, it enhances the immune
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: system to the point that you know, the deer is
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: able to fight it off. And there's there's also products
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: in there that they help with the heat dissipation so
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: that the animal, you know, they get the h D
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: they fever real but that's why they die in the water.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: They get such a high fever they go lay in
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: the water to cool off. That's wally end up dying.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: And there's there's properties in the in this product that
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: will help with heat dissipation to keep the animal cool.
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: And you know, we're not sure to be honest, you
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: know which one of these modes of action is the
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: most effective, but all we know is working. H. Well,
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: I'm interested and uh let's let's definitely check in down
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: the line, and uh, we'll definitely be interested in some
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: updates on what you do see throughout the rest of
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: the summer and hopefully hopefully there'll be some good news
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: for deer herds across the country. I certainly would like
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: to know a solution, So that said, though done, UM
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: E h D is kind of a downer. I think
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: for most of us, nobody wants to hear about the
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: h d um, But most of the most people do
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: want to hear about really big bucks, especially two inches.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: So you say you've got to potential two inches on
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: the radar this year? Is that right? Yeah? I do. Uh.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: And both bucks I have a long history with. One
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: of them is seven and a half this year and
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: the other one six and a half. But they're two
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: totally different animals. One of them, if they're both alive
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: October one, when season opens, my odds are killing one
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: of them are about are over probably over. My odds
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: are killing the other one are probably less than five. Um.
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: Just one of them is a real home body. He's
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: got a small core area where he lives. It's on
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: a property only I'm allowed to hunt. He's visible quite regular.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: I've seen him three times in the past month and
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: really have a been a lot of time looking for him,
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: get his trail camera pictures. Pretty regular. He's where he's at,
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: he's living where he's been since he was two and
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: a half years old, and doesn't travel far. A lot
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: of daylight movement on that buck. Last year I passed
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: him five times as a five and a half year old.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: Got video footage of Baldo's um and you know, he's
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: actually the biggest buck I ever let walk. Last year,
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: I thought he would probably score in the low one
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: eighties when I was passed him. But in this spring
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: I found his sheds and he actually scored right at one.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: And the only I don't want anybody to think that
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: that I'm passing one D nine in bucks. If this
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: would have been an older buck, um, you know, I
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: still felt this buck could get bigger, which he did
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: this year. But he was also living on a property
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: that only I can hunt, and I knew he was
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: a homebody, not ranging for and that's why I let
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: him do. If I buck would have been on another property,
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: he's got shot for sure. So I kind of to
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: throw those disclaimers into here to not mislead anyone to
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: think I'm passing up hunter ninety ins deer all the time,
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: because that just at the case. Uh the other buck,
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: and I call that buck the first buck Smokey by
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: the way, and then the second buck is Trump. And
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: some people have followed my Facebook blog post about Trump
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: haven't written one this summer. Yep, Well, last year I
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: was getting his pictures. They were always at night, but
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: I would get them pretty regular. Now this summer's he's
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: still there. I've got two or three I think it
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: was three times. I've got his photo of three different days,
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: but they were always at a distance. He was never
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: close to the camera. He's become real camera should I
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: have this summer the site where I was getting his
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: his photo about once a week or twice a week
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: last year. I've not got a single picture of him
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: there this year, but he's, you know, just across the field.
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: That's where I've got his picture three times, so I
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: didn't know he's in the same area. Last I figured
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: he was probably about a hundred eighty and low one
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: eighties buck, and I know he's put on more points
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: this year. I've been able to count from the three
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: pictures that I've got it, I've been able to count
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: at least eighteen points. Um long times. Not as white
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: as smokey, but a real long times. Um. He very
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: well could be pushing two hundred inches too. But like
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: I said, he's gonna be a very very tough buck
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: to get. If if I kill that buck, it's gonna
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: be luck ten percent skill. So hope I got luck
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: on my side. Yeah. If you could pick which dear
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: would you rather kill this year? Oh, I guess Trump
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: because he's gonna be so difficult and smokey. I think
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: you'd survive another year where he's at so but Smokey
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: right now is probably two inches and what's his what's
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: the inches? Is that just a massive typical frame or
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: does he have some non typical junk or what's what says? Look,
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: he's a five by five typical frame. He's got four
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: G two really deep forts on both G twos and
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: one of his brows has a little split on so
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: he's got thirteen points in all. But you know his
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: sheds last year he had four times over twelve inches
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: as long at time with fourteen and as I gave
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: him a twenty three inch inside spread. Uh man, And
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: if you want, I can send you a video clip
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: that maybe you could post on your site with this blog.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: Let me passing him last year, and he he looks
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: every bit that big when he comes by too. But uh,
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: he's just a big frame, pretty much typical with him
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: four G twos. Uh, it's vagin old buck. When I've
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: been waiting a long time to find. Yeah, bet Dan, Dan,
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: what would you do if a ninety class buck walked
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: by you and I told you couldn't shoot him? Kick
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: your ass out of the tree standing ship? Yeah? That
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: sounds about right. So it's okay, here's kind of what
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: I wanted to do. And Dan, you're gonna have to
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: help me think about how we can ask these questions
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: and everything. But I kind of want to like walk
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: you through a hypothetical season done. So I'm gonna like say, Okay,
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: let's say it's this time frame, what are you thinking about?
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: What are you doing? And then I'm gonna say, okay,
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: what if he survives that and he makes to the
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: next part of the season, what are you thinking about?
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: What are you doing? I kind of want to walk
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: you through a hypothetical year hunting these two bucks, and
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: I'm just trying to understand like how your strategies would change,
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: you know, what the plan is you currently have in place, etcetera, etcetera.
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: That's kind of my idea for this. UM. So, so
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: I guess to start though, um, can you lay out
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: what your summer or what your offseason scouting has been
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: like for these two deer? Um, you know, whether it's
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: being the summer or in the postseason, or you know,
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: what have you done up to this point this year
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: to prepare for this hunt? That's what I want to
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: know about. First. Well, I spent a lot of time
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: in the spring um looking for She had antlers from
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: both bucks, and I found both sheds from Smoky, but
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: I didn't find either from Trump, And it just kind
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: of fits with their personalities. One's been very difficult, one's
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: been very easy. Um, especially in Trump's area this spring.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: Has spent a lot of time trying to gain access.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: He covers a wide uh you know home range. Uh.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: Last fall I got his picture two pictures, seventeen hours apart,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: three miles apart. So in seventeen hours he traveled at
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: least three miles. So I spent a lot of time
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: in that range just trying to pick up a little pieces.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: It's it's open farm country pretty much, with just little
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: wood lots here and there, fence rows here and there.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: Just looking at every possible option and someting new stands.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: And he's pretty much proven to me that I'm gonna
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: have to throw him. But he's not used to the
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: only two daylight pictures I got to him were in
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: Both of them were in mid January, and both of
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: them were in the middle of the day. I think
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: one was like twelve fifteen, you know, right afternoon. Noah
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: was like one thirty afternoon. Those are the only two
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: daylight pictures I got everybody, But they were both from
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: the same location. I did put a tree stand at
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: that location, obviously, but I've been looking at it just
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to throw him a curved ball. I'm
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: gonna do something weird, and I believe he's probably already
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: aware of every stand I've got in his range. So
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: I've got some new stands that I'm just gonna stay
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: out of having away from until the time is right.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: Let slip in and try to hunt him. There is
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: that buck? Is that buck? Then not living off? Is
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: his core area not your farm? And he just kind
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: of cried there every once in a while. Yeah, his
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: core area is is not my farm. It's not a
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: place I have exclusive from it. And four he's his
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: real worlds. Yes, Yeah, tough tough to hunt a buck
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: like that. So you've you've hundled newstand when you do,
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: I guess I'm not trying to say, do you do
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: any serious like on the ground postseason scouting, like trying
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: to better understand how dear using these properties where they
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: might be vetted, where they might be traveling through, or
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: do you already have such a good solid understanding of
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: these spots, um based on history and based on kind
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: of habitat, you know, improvements, maybe you're making, Um, what's
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: that look like for you? Well, Smokey, where he lives,
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: I know his area like back to my hand, and
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: he does every buck has ever done, it's been on
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: that property. He's staying in the same spot he's bet
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: I mean exactly the same place and the just every
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: mature bucket that lives on that property over the years
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: has done the same thing. So that's why I'm so
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: confident and killing him and just you know the fact
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: that he don't leave Trump. On the other hand, he's
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: led me in the new new areas I've never hunted before.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: So you know, when I found him last summer, I
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: knew he just first from that area in the fall,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: because I had his trail camera pictures since two thousand
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: and twelve, and and I would quit getting his picture
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: of about the first week October. So I knew about
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: the first week October when the crops would come out,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: he was moving somewhere, but I didn't know where. So
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: most of the last season, you know, I spent moving
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: trail cameras trying to figure out his home range. And
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: as I found him, you know, he was leading me
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: into new areas I've never hunted before, which meant that
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: I had to get permission from new landowners and and
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: just basically was starting from scratched with him. But it's
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: gonna be a real challenge even even lay eyes on
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: that buck. Yeah, okay, So let's take a quick break
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: here before we go any further for a word from
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: our partners at White Tailed Properties and and today's producer,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: Spencer new Hearth has got a guest for our segment
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: here today. He was going to talk with us about
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: a very different hunting situation than what we've been to
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: discussing so far this week with white Tail Properties. We
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: are drawn by Blake Farah, a land specialist out of Texas,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: and Blake gives me telling us about what white tail
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: hunters should know before planning at Texas hunt. You know,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: I think the probably one of the biggest misconception I
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: guess about hunting in Texas is that they've seen one
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: or two hunts on TV and they assume that's the
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: entire state of Texas. And I would tell you that, Uh,
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: you know, one of the great one of the greatest
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: things about hunting in Texas the massive amount of diversity
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: that you have depending on your geographical location in the state,
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: So you can have any different experience as far as
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: white tail hunting goes all across the state. It kind
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: of functions as four or five separate states entirely according
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: to habitat, location, topography, terrain. Uh, you know, all of
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: those things that you would kind of classify the Midwest
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: or you know, even farther out west doing some elk
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: hunts or something like that. And Texas has such a
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: big diversity of things is that you can really find
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: really whatever experience you're looking for, and just driving two
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: or three hours in any given direction, you can have
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: completely different types of hunting. I'd say the main regions
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: of Texas can kind of break down into what everybody
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: knows is South Texas is kind of South San Antonio,
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: characterized by the classic South Texas brush country, big wide,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: tall white tails, very mature you can have great age
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: structure because the ranches are huge. You've also got kind
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: of the Panhandle where it's more of the kind of
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: the Kansas Oklahoma strain of white Tail, a little bit
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: more of the river break country, big draws, big cuts,
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: wide open country. You've also got West Texas with huge canyons,
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: um a lot more of the spot and stock type
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: country out there. And then you've also got East Texas
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: where you've got huge timber and you've got large timber
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: stands and you could actually have and grow some crops
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: and have some tillable and uh, you know, just a
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: huge diversity across the state. If you'd like to learn
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: more or to see the properties that Blake currently has
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: listed for sale, visit white Tail properties dot com. Backslash farah,
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: that's f A R R A R. Okay, So you've
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: got you've got some salad intel basically multiple years of
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: both of these bucks. I guess I'm wondering as I'm
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: thinking this through. Let's let's let's talk one buck at
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: a time. Let's start with Smokey. So Smokey again, you
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: know his habits very well in this area. You've he's
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: a home body he's been there for a long time,
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: you've passed him. Um. Okay, let's say it's the early
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: season October one, opening day in Illinois or that first
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: part of the season. At least walk us through what
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: you are and are not going to be doing at
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: that time of year. Are you gonna be hunting him
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: at that time of year? If so, can you tell
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: us where, how, how often? Um, all that kind of stuff.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: Just at that point in the season. Let's say he's alive. Yeah,
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: I've got two places, two stands where I feel I've
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: got a really good shot at him. And I don't
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: think it matters what time of the season it is. Um.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: What I'm gonna do is hunt those two stands when
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: the winds are right. And uh, I'm gonna pay a
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: lot of attention to weather fronts, um. You know, when
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: the deer movement would be picked picked up from normal. Um.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: And if if we got the right weather front and
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: the right wind direction, I'm going to be in one
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: of the two stands, And I honestly think I'll have
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: it killed before the end of October. Um. Just because
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: of my past history with the other bucks in the
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: area that have done the same thing, I mean, he's
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: doing the same thing that I've watched other bucks due
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: in the same location, and I would not be a
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: bit surprised if I don't shoot in the first hunt,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: but you know, maybe not. It might take a couple
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: of weeks, but I think by the end of October,
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: if he's still a pH D don't get him. I'll
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: have that buck on the ground. And I'm I normally
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: don't go out on the wind like that and make
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: that kind of prediction. But just based on what I
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: know about this buck and what I know about the
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: property where he's at, I think I can get him killed.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: Can you describe the property, like the situation like you
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: mentioned that every mature buck on this place does the
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: same thing. Um, can you describe you know? So what
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: is he doing where? What's the area he's bettered in?
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: How does he moving out of there? Like? What's the
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: pattern you seem to have on this deer already? Well,
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: there's a there's two different kinds of cover that come
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: together the ideal spot where I think this buck is
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: gonna get shot. You've got wooded cover that that meets
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: with with tall prairie grass, and then you've got a
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: food plot and it's I call it all three of
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: them come together. And he likes the bed in that
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: tall prairie grass. So there's there's like a funnel between
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: the prairie grass and the wooded cover, and right where
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: that funnels that is also the corner of the food plot.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: And it's just a killer location where you could kill
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: every buck on the property at that that spot. And
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: you know, since told me the only one allowed to
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: be there, I've got pretty much control over it. And
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: then I just I stay away. I make sure that
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: they're comfortable using that. And he's already proven that he's
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: fine with moving in the daylight. I've seen him three
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: evenings and so I think I went out to look
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: for him four different evenings, and three of the evenings
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: I've seen him, So you know he's visible. Um, he's
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: not in there is nocturnal as smoke he is. And
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: the stand set up is just killer. Can you elaborate
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: a little bit on the stand set up again? Uh,
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: you know, not only just the specific location, but also
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, is this like is this a box blind?
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: Is a hang on in the air. I'm curious about
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: like all the specific details of what's making this so good.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: It's actually a box line, an elevated blind there that
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: that covers that funnel between the the tall paragraphs and
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: the wooded cover. And also when when the deer come out,
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: if if they're better than either one, either the wooded
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: cover or the the tall grass, they're going to come
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: out into this food plot and this corner of the
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: food pot, or into the food pot that's covered. But
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: this box line is just like the natural hub of
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: deer coming from you know, just about every direction. But
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: yet it's still I've got a fantastic access into that
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: box line, whether west or northwest wind, and that that
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: wind allows me to slip in undetected. But it's also
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: bowling my sentence a direction that there's almost never gonna
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: be there. So even though they're coming from both sides,
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, they're hardly ever behind me. So they're coming.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: So they're coming from your north or south and you're
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: accessing from the east. Is exactly exactly yea. And what's
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: what about the access route? Is it just the fact
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: that it's, you know, just an area most deer aren't fedded,
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: or are you sneaking in through a ditch or do
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: you have some kind of like screening cover or some
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: like special thing you've put together to to improve your
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: access there. It's across the wide open agg field and
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: kind of the roll of the lamb. The terrain features
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: pretty much keeps me hidden until I'm right there at
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: the barne. Okay, excellent. I mean a deer would literally
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: have to be standing on the edge of that cover
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: looking out to seeing me coming into that mine. Mhm.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: You mentioned you're waiting for the right wind and then
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: the right weather front. Um. I can make assumptions about
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: the weather front you're looking for, but can you tell
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: me exactly what that what those conditions are you'd be
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: waiting for, well cool for in October, you know, those
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: October and cold fronts are absolutely fantastic to get those
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: bucks on their feet, you know, a little bit earlier
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: than they would on other days. Um. And also those
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: cold fronts usually, uh, the northwest wind or the west
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: wind that I need is not typical here that time
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: of year, with the more south southwest, which is absolutely
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: wrong for this stand. So the cold front usually gives
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: me the wind I need as well as the conditions
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: for the deer to be on his feet. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: that that's a good situation to have. Now, what about
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: what about Trump? Will you hunt him at all in
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: the early season? And if so, what's what's the plan
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: for that? Or if you're not gonna hut him in
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: the early season, are you going to be monitoring him
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: at all or in some way keeping track of what's
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: going on there? Yeah, I've dedicated so many trail cameras
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: that bucket's ridiculous. So I think half my trail cameras
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: are trying to catch him and put together the pieces
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: of the puzzle. And you know, by the way, whenever,
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: you know, last summer, he caught my eye, and so
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: I went back to I used Reconic software to keep
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: track of all my trail camera pictures. So I started
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: looking back through previous years, and you know, it's like,
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: what buck is this? You know, he exploded last year.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: I looked through all my my trail cam from that
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: same location from the previous year, and I picked him out.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: And then I went back to the previous year. Well,
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: and once I've got his once I know what he
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: looked like the year before, then I can look at
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: all my other trail camera locations and look for for
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: him again and see you know which one of those
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: locations he was at, but I'll make a long story short.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: I had his picture since two thousand twelve as I
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: put the pieces together. But the problem was I only
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: had him at that one location. He wasn't visiting any
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: other property where I was hunting or head cameras. So
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: you know last year I was, I was putting the
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: pieces of the puzzle together. So the thing I noticed
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: as I was going through these old photos is that
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: you know, he where he ranges in the summer, he
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: leaves in early October, but but he's there the first
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: week ten days or so of October. So I figured
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: I've got a chance there the first week and a
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: half or so of October, so the days the wind
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: is not right to hunting Smokey, I've got mobible stands
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: at this location where I can hunt Trump, So you'll
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: be hunting Trump hard. But then when the time comes
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: and I probably should still be happy, and I'm gonna
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: slip and try to slip an arrow and Smoky at
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: another location. A tough balancing act. Yeah yeah, but that's
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: why I lived for So, like I said, I shot
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: my shot a two hundred and fourteen inch buck back
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: in two thousand and four, and I spent the last
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: thirteen years looking for another one. I want to do
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: it on video next time. And I spent thirteen years,
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: and I don't know how many miles trail cameras, probably
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of trail camera pictures, just searching for
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: another two d inch bluck. And I found a couple
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: of one nineties. And there was one I was hunting
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: a couple of years ago and I just got onto
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: the buck and he was killed about a week later,
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: and he scored like one some mates at the Illinois
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: Deer Classic that winter. But I found a couple in
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: the one nineties that got killed before I really had
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: a chance to hunt them hard. This year, I've definitely
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: got at least one. Yeah, So are you are you
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: dedicating your season to these two deer? I mean, is it?
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: Is it tag soup or two? Pretty much? Yeah? I
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: mean there there may be another buck coming that I
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: don't know about now that I might might change my mind.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: But if you're asking me that question today, I would say, yeah,
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: there's no other buck that I've got a photo of
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: that I would put my tag on. And I am
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: gonna I am trying to get a tag in Iowa.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: So when I go Iowa, if I get a a
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: tag in Iowa, applied for one of the media tacks.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: I was unsuccessful in the first draw in the drawings,
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: so I applied for a media attack, which the deadline
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: to that was today, So I'll be finding out pretty
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: quick from heading to Iowa. I've got a pretty hot
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: tip for a good property over there, and that my factory.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: The things a little as well. But is it Is
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: it Dan Johnson's place? Because I think you should hunt there. Yeah,
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: she's gonna tell him, though. One of the neighbors gave
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: me permission to park and walk across the line. There
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: you go. The So what does what does the number
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: two hundred mean for you? What is it? What is
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: a two buck? By killing one or both of these
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: this year? What does what does two mean? Well? For me,
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: you know, way back when I shot the first one,
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to kill a world class buck. And
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: but I wanted to do it, you know, on certain terms.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to shoot one on a deer drive
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: he's running by with his tongue hanging out or anything
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: like that. I just wanted to shoot a world class
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: buck as he's going about his business, not having any
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: idea that I was anywhere around doing what big bucks
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: do when they think nobody's looking. And I was fortunate
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: enough to do that. And as time's gone gone on,
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: you know, I realized how rare that was, and I
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: knew it was the buck of a lifetime my showing.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: But as time's gone and I look across to the
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: hunting industry, some great hunters, some fantastic hunters, and and
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: how many of them have killed multiple two hundreds? And
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: there's there's not very many, especially when you start talking
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: legit two hundreds. I mean, there's guys claiming that they
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: have that if they was ever their bucks were ever
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: submitted for official scoring, they wouldn't be two hundred. And
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: then but there's guys that have. You know, you mentioned
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: Mark Drewy earlier. He has, h Adam Hayes has. There's
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: those guys that have, And I just I would like
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: to kill at least one more to put myself in
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: that elite group of company of guys that have killed
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: multiple two hundreds. It's uh, like you said, rare company,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: no doubt about that. And um and and and I
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: can only I have not shot anything close to that big,
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: but I could assume that. You mean, when I think
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: about why do I like to tarte it older deer
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: or you know, when we talk about antlers. Sometimes antlers
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: aren't everything. Obviously there's a lot of other things more important,
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: but we are naturally I think a lot of hunters
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: fascinated by them, and I think it's just I think
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: when you talk about these bigger deer because of how
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: rare they are, there's something special there. It's not because, oh,
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: these antlers are so big, they're gonna look great on
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: my wall. But there's also just the fact that that
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: that type of animals such a rare, special animal out
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: there's so few like that. It is the ultimate challenge,
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: it is. It is that ultimate kind of I don't know,
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: measuring stick for you as a hunter. I feel like, oftentimes,
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: at least for me, like I'm not competing against other
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: hunters to kill bigger deer or anything. I'm competing against
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: myself and like just trying to become a better hunter
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: every year, and looking at antlers and score, that's one
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: way to quantify, you know, how how great of a
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: challenge it was to try to find a deer like
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: that to be able to learn that specific rare deer um.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, I gotta believe some of that stuff is
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: similar to what you're feeling too, is that right? Yeah?
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: And you know I mentioned the guys that have killed
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: two hundred inches, dear, there's a lot of fantastic deer hunters,
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: I mean top knocks deer hunters that have never killed one,
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: not not a single one. And that doesn't make them
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: any less of a deer hunter. I mean they know
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: less than a guy that has you hild the hit
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: it on the nail on the head when you said
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: how rare they are smoky. For example, even though he's
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: got a rack over two, he can though smarter than
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: a lot of the three year old bucks really or
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: four year old bucks that I've had the privilege of
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: hunting over the years. And in fact, killing him is
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: going to be relatively easy compared to some of the
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: other bucks that I've hunted, And I founded a lot
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: of bucks that you know, did score a hundred fifty
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: inches that that I never got that got away from me.
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: So the two doesn't prove that you're a better hunter.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: It's just it's just a very rare animal, And that's
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: the difficult thing. It's finding a two in bluck, not
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: killing them, just finding a two inch block is what's rare. Yeah.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: So so back to Trump. Um, you mentioned you've got
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: like a week or so window there where he seems
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: to be active on that property, and you said you've
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: got several stand locations that you'll hunt him when the
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: wind's not right for Smoky, can you describe what those
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: setups would be, the early season set up for first
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: Trump would be what one or several of those look like. Yeah,
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: they're basically just a little pockets that cover out in
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: the middle of wide open act fields and h you know,
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: if somebody would see the stand, they would think what
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: that guy's gotta be to the heck would sit here
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: if you're going to shoot it here? And but that's
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: where he lives. That's where he spends his summer and
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: until most of the crops are out, he stays out
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: in those kind of areas. Um. And so I just
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: basically when or went to every area and that in
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: his home range in that three mile straight where I
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: know he ranges the two extremes where I've got this
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: picture from one end to the other and any little
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: pocket of cover where I thought this would hide the box,
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: This hide the box that I thought I could slip
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: in and get a stand and be able to climb
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: in that stand without busting any buckets. Better there, I
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: put a stand there, and there's gonna be a lot
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: a lot of days that I hunt for trump and
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: I don't see a single deer. That is a tricky situation. Now,
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: I know what you mean to some of those spots. Um.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: I've got some friends and hunts kind of areas like that.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: In northern Ohio there's huge jumping egg fields and these
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: tiny little blocks of timber in the middle of them,
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: and the challenge always seems to be like just even
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: getting in there without spooking the deer to hunt them. Um,
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: are you gonna are these stands that you're accessing through
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: standing corn or something? Or is it just because they're
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: big enough pockets that you can get in there without
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: spooking How do you manage that to get in there
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: without spooking him if he's in there. Yeah, it's gonna
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: be standing corn, and I'm gonna need days where it's
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: fairly windy where the window covered my noise as I
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: slipped the in Okay, Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, So
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: so I want to move on to like mid delayed October.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: Now we're gonna pretend that you haven't killed either one
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: of these bucks yet. But before I guess Dan any
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: early season questions for his plan before we move on,
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: I guess, so this last year was kind of warm.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: We had a warm early season with like one cold
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: front that came through. Uh. And obviously the the bucks
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: don't start getting on their feet. Their movement is more dictated,
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: you know, daylight movement is more dictated towards uh, the
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: movement uh. And then I'm talking on the law of averages.
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: Their movement is based on whether or not the does start,
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: you know, coming into heat and are ready to breed um.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: And I guess it's kind of leading up to the
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: next question, that is, you know, we have a warm,
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: a warm early season of warm October with you know
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: maybe no uh no, uh cold fronts that come through.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: Are you still gonna go and hunt some of these
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: properties or are you gonna late like do a lot
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: of laying off two and just you know, even if
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: that cold front doesn't come to the first week in November.
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: Well with with Trump I've gotten that stands out that
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna be hunt him somewhere with Smoky Early. I'm
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: gonna if the wind's right, I'm gonna be hunt him
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: out of basically two locations. Um. And both of them
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: are very similar, they just take different wind directions. Um.
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: But as we get closer to the rut than uh,
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna be again. I'm gonna have probably
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: twelve fifteen trail cameras dedicated just to Trump if I
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: don't get him this year, or maybe I can put
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: a cup and more pieces of the puzzle together and
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: be a step poster for next year. Um. But with Smokey,
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: I've got a lot of different stands in his area
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: that are more rut type stands. Um. So you know
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: I've probably got just off the top of my head,
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: probably eight or ten other stands that once November starts
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: rolling around, then I'll start hitting some of the other
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: stands that are right there close to his his bad
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: have a real good chance to kill him. So so
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: would you say then, just to just to make sure
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: I understand, if you don't get the cold fronds in
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: the early season like you want, you'll you'll keep hunting
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: Trump regardless, But you lay off Smokey on those spots
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: until either the rut or you do get the coal front.
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: Is that accurate? Yeah? And if if I just get
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: the wind the other stand that I've got smoke I
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: described the first one that the second spot is also
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: another elevator blind. Uh, but it requires a southeast wind, um,
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: And then that's one that I could probably get. It's
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: the stand side is not quite as good as the
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: first one, but it's still a location where I've got
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: a legitimate shot at him. And I know, honey, you
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: know a time or two, um, even if the weather
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: is hot, because it's a it's a spot where I
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: can observe a lot of the property as well, and
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: you know, maybe pick up on something he's doing that
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: that wasn't expected. But Okay, now, I'm I can make
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: an assumption here. But let's say let's look at the
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: opposite of that situation. Let's say early actour passes and
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: you did get cold fronts, You had several good cold
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: fronts come through. You went to those couple stands for
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: Smokey with the good conditions, with the good wind, but
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: you didn't get a shot. M Maybe you saw him,
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: maybe you didn't, but you weren't able to kill him.
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: Now it's you know, later in October, let's say October
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: twenty to thirty one, somewhere in that time from the
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: last third of the of the month. You mentioned you've
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: got some other rut stands. Um, you've got a lot
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: of different spots for Trump. Um when it comes to Smokey,
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: if it's late October, you still haven't killed him, what's
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: the specific strategy there? Are you still hunting the same
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: early season stands because you're working off of that kind
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: of bed defeed patterns still or or what Yeah, I will,
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: but I'll move into some of those other stands as well. Um,
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: what will those look like? It's yeah, it's it's hard
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: to say. Most of those are like right on the
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: edge of betting cover, and I'll be hunting the down
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: wind the edge of dope betting areas. But sometimes you know,
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: these bucks will move into those dope betting areas too
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: during the rut, al right before the rut, and start
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: betting there as well. So as the season wears on,
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: we get close to the red, if I haven't got him,
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: I'll start hitting some of these other stands on the
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: edge of betting areas and hitting that bed defeeding pattern.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: Uh okay, primarily in the afternoons. I just I don't
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: hunt in mornings in October, and in fact, I don't
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: hunt in mornings for the first couple until about November
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: five is when I really start hunting morning. And the
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: reason for is I don't want to burn myself out.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: You start getting up early thirty days in a row
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: and I don't care here you are. You start getting
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: burned out, and I want to go as long as
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: I can hunting every single morning, so I don't want
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: to start too early. I usually start about November five,
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: and from that point on, I'm hunting every single morning,
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: And especially when you're getting there towards the end of
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: November rom Thanksgiving weekend, that's a fantastic time for killing
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: big bucks. Um. The thing about Smokey is is I,
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: if I give him my almost feel like it's gonna
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: be a mid day type deal. Just based on the
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: trail camera pictures I've gotten, I think that he knows
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: the game as well as I do, probably a whole
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: lot better. Um that, just based on my trail camera pictures,
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: I never got a single trail camera pictures even on
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: her desk. The two I got was midday or the
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: middle of nine, So I think I'm gonna have to
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: spend the all day and stands for him Trump. If
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: I don't have Trump by the end of October, I'm
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: gonna be checking my trail cameras about daily because I
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: want to thank something's happened to if I haven't laid
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: eyes on him. Speaking of trail cameras, um, I know
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: in one of our past episodes with you, you talked about,
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: you know the importance of annual patterns that you're analyzing
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: through trail camera photos. How much of that is gonna
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: How much of that factors into these two bucks too,
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: because it sounds like you've you've had observations of of Smokey,
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: it's been more trail cameras with Trump, how much of
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: an annual pattern from a trail camera kind of studies
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: tendpoint is going to factor into all this? Well a
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: lot on Smoky you know, he's not changing. He's one
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: of those bucks that just lives in the same area
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: all year round. And as you know, I've run these
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: trail cameras for years and years on multiple properties, And
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: what I see is about fifty of the bucks will
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: have a summer range and a fall winter range, and
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: they'll shift. It may only be they may only shift
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: the range a mile or so, but but they do
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: shift a little bit. And the other pretty much stay
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: at the same spot year round. And and that that range,
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: when they stay, it varies in size, and Smokey just
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: happens to be one of those bucks that steams stays
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: in the same area year round, but it's a very
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: small area, which makes him pretty easy Trump. On the
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: other hand, you know, I'm looking at trail camera pictures
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: hard now where he was at last year on a
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: certain date this year, I'm going to be there on
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: that day. Even if I got this picture night, I
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: gotta assume that still, you know, fairly close. But you
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: know I mentioned those, uh. I got several pictures of
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: him during the rut, the same spot where I got
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: his daylight pictures in in January, but he was coming
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: to at night every time I'm going to be spending time,
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: and I know he spends time in the rut there
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: and I know there's several does to stay in that area,
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: so I've got pictures of him working scrapes. Last year
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: he broke a time, so I assumed he was fighting
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: to do that. Um, so I assume he's taking toward
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: in the rut. So during the rut, I'm gonna be
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: spending a lot of time in that area, um where
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: he was in the rut last year. You know, the
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: hot dog can change the game and in in thirty seconds,
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: be having the worst season of your life. And here
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: comes a hot dough in that bucket was off turnal
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: up to that point. All of a sudden, he's on
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: his feet. Daylight. You gotta be there. It's only capitalized.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: So my my hopes are that I killed Smoky right
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: out of the gate, leaves me one buck tag and
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: I can just focus solely on Trump and not have
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: to worry. Should I'll be over there hunting Smokey because
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: I know I got a better chance to kill him.
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: It would be kind of that's gonna be kind of frustrating.
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: It may happen that way, but you know, if I've
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: only got one tag and one buck, I can focus
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: on my energy on that, and uh, it makes a
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: little bit easier now when you're hunting, you know, one
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: specific buck on either these two areas. Um, how aggressive
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: or not would you get with things like calls or
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: decoys or rattling, you know, because those sometimes can be
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: kind of a high risk, high reward type proposition. So,
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: since you've got such a tight homebody with Smokey, is
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: that something where you would you'd rather not risk spooking
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: him in any way and just know that he's gonna
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: hopefully stick close to home and those during those time
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: frames and you can kill him eventually. Or would you
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 1: get a aggressive with some type of calling or something
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: like that. I probably won't get aggressive with him at all.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: I want him just to go about his business like
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: he has all along. Um. You know, I'm sure he's
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: smelled my you know ground oder many times is as
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: he's walked through his area and I've been there, you know,
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: getting stands ready or planting food pots or whatever. Um.
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: I don't want to do anything to put him on
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: high alert. And he knows that I'm part of the
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: landscape there, really, um. And I think that's that's something
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: that I've really not heard a lot of guys talk about.
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: But I believe the deer on on this property no
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: my odor over others, because I've just seen you know,
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: both those and the mature bucks not so much, but
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: younger bucks for sure. And even like three and three
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: and four year olds. You got video footage of the
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: getting down window me and sticking their nose in there.
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: They definitely smelled me. And they don't bolt. They just
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: turned around and walk back into cover. And it's and
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: I just gotta believe that they know my owder versus
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: other people's owders. It's kind of like the farmer that's
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: no threat to him. You know that they smell him
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: day after day after day, and you know, he's out
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: taking care of his crops and his cows and whatever,
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 1: and they're always coming across his older and he's never
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: doing anything in danger them, so they just kind of
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: become accustomed to it. And I think that's kind of
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: the situation with Smokey. I think he knows I'm there
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: and he just doesn't feel threatened by me exactly. And
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: you know, I've got the wooded cover on this propery
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: end as well as the taller graphses are sanctuary areas.
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: They don't stomp into them. But on the outside, it's
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: my sense there all the time. Men the deer just
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: seemed to accept that box. Now, that doesn't mean they're
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: gonna walk across open country or anything, so caution to
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: the wind. There's still a cautious animal, but some of
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: them are a whole lot more cautious than others. Now Trump,
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: on the other hand, I probably I'm want to get
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: one good hunt out of each stand, and if I
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: don't get him, it's gonna be over it because I
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: that's one shark bock. If I killed Trump, it's probably
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: gonna be the greatest accomplishment of hunting career, no matter
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: what scores. Wow. Well, it's time for our final break
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: of the episode, and this time is for our partners
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: at the white Tail Institute of North America, and with
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: fall food plot planning season upon us, we are hearing
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: today about some of the best food plot forge options
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: the white Tail Institute has to offer for this fall.
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: This week with white Tail Institute, we're talking to consultant
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: John Cooner about their special blend of Imperial white Tail Fusion,
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: which is super popular with deer and even more popular
• 1:34:52
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• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: sort of an unusual product for us because it's in
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: part one of our oldest products that we have kept
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: updating and in part because we have ended up changing
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: it so much that we ended up changing the name.
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: By continuing to improve it, the main parts are still
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: the same as Imperial white tail clover is the main
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: forage component UH. Doctor Dr Hannah, our plant Genetics has
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: finished breeding our newest clover variety of a couple of
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: years ago, and so that has been added added to
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: uh to fusion in place of the clover we've had before. That. Also,
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: we've increased the amount of the chickery that we put
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: in there. UH. The protein level is a little bit
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: higher uh than it was. It gives up to the
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: product we had before was called chickery plus. And with
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: all those changes and the fact that that we found
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: chickery plus fusing because it led folks to believe it
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: was more chickery than clover, we said we might as
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: well go ahead. It's it's time to change the name
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: now because we've made those other uh continue improvements to it.
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: Impure white tail clover is number one food plot planning
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: in the world. It's made for a good boisture holding
• 1:36:06
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• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: number one flagship products into that there has been a
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: small amount, say ten percent, maybe a little more of
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: the chickory UH infusion and that brings the total protein
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: UH provided up to about If you'd like more info
• 1:36:26
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• 1:36:29
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• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: top supplements, attractants, and herbicides available. Yeah. Either way, I uh,
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: either buck will be pretty incredible, but I can I
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: can definitely see why the challenge is there. Um, now,
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: Dan on the rut side, what else do you want
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: to know about Don's rut thoughts, plans, strategies there? Well,
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: I mean it sounds like you know his goal is
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: to get the job done before correct me if I'm wrong. Wrong,
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: But your job is to get the job done before
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: the rut hits. Right, I'm smoky for sure, smoky for sure?
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: Okay um? And And because that seems to be a
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: uh you're the only person that has the access to
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: hunt that right, there's food plots he doesn't other than
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: maybe chasing a dough, he doesn't have any other reason
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: to leave right right, okay um? So then what happens
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: when the rut hit? Let's say, for example, the rut
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: hits chaos and sues and hey, they stopped showing up
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: on trail camera. B Uh, maybe you see him, but
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: he's on a different property, or he's chasing a dough
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: outside of your plan. Well, I should probably back up
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: a little bit. You know. I mentioned that Trump shifts
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: his home ran in early October from his summer range
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: his fall winter range. I'm not gonna unless I've killed Smokey.
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna be going after Trump hard like the
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: second half and once the October while'll start said the
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 1: second half October to the first of November, I'm gonna
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: lay off of him because I just don't have enough
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: stands the hunt and I don't want to burn him
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: out before the rug. So if I don't have Smokey
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: killed by saying filled the fifteenth middle of October, the
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: second half October, I'm gonna be going after him hard
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: day after every day, just to try to get him
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: killed before the rudd hits, because I don't want to
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 1: take that chance on him hooking up with a hot
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: dough and going to another property and getting shot. He's
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: just I mean, I've hit too long to hunt a
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: buck like that to not go after him hard. And
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: I'll probably do that right up into early October or
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: early November until I getting killed or something happens to him. Okay,
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: even if it means leaving Trump alone. I mean I
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: will early the first ten days or so, when I
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: know Trump's on his summer range. Yeah, I'm gonna hunt
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: both bucks. But once I feel Trump has made that
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: shift to his fall winter range, I'm gonna lay off
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: at him until the rut and go after Smoky hard
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: until I get him on the ground for for something
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 1: else happens to him. Now, what about um, we talked
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: about trail cameras for an annual pattern standpoint, but you
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: did also mention the fact that if if Trump, if
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: Trump is still alive or you think he's alive, and
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: we're later in October, you said you you'd be checking
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: the trail cameras often to try to figure out where
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: he's at. Now, I mean, what's your trail camera strategy
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: in season gonna look like, um, are you moving? There're
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: gonna keep these cameras in the same places that you
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: always do. Are those like easy to access spots or
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: would you get aggressive with your cameras and move around
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: and keep looking for him, or keep trying to narrow
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: things out. Well, I'm not going to be moving cameras.
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: Instead of doing that, I'm just gonna take how many
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: cameras I need and uh and leave them in the
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: spot all seasons. Some of them are going to be
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: in more difficult to access spots and they won't get
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: checked ear as often. Maybe they're close to a tree
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: stand and I don't want to put any pressure on
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: that stand, So the only time that I checked those
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: cameras is when I'm going in to hunt that stand.
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 1: And then there's gonna be some that, you know, they're
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: more more open type areas where I only expect to
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: get nine time pictures, and I'll check those more often
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: just to kind of get a handle make sure he's
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: still alive, make sure he's still using the same patterns
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: he has in years passed. Okay, here's something I'm wondering
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 1: about in this situation. Let's say on both of these bucks,
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: you still haven't killed them in the early season or
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: in October or into the rut. It's not you kind
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 1: of allude to this with Trump, But at any point
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: do you start worrying about amount of pressure that you're
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: putting on them. Like, let's let's talk about Smokey, because
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: this is the situation where you said you would be
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: hitting it hard in October because you want to kill
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: him before the run. But let's say you hit it
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: hard all through October, you still haven't killed him. Um,
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: but you know he's maybe still in the area at
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: any point. Do you say, I've put so much pressure
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: on this deer. I need to I'm just making it worse.
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: I need to pull out and leave it alone for
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: a few weeks and then hope maybe they'll give him
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: daylight active again. I mean, how how many hunts can
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: you get away with in that area without having some
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: kind of impact? Well, where he at, Like I said,
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: I probably got to at least him stands, So I
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 1: mean there it might be a situation where two or
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 1: three stands. I feel I put too much pressure on those,
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: and and I back away from those two or three,
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean I'm gonna back away from the
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 1: other you know seven or eight that's left. Um. For example,
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: in in Smokey's area, I've got, uh three stands that
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 1: require an easterly wind. We don't get many easterly winds.
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: But I'm telling you, we get an easterly wind in
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: early November, I can sit there and and see six
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: eight blocks every high and whenever. If we get an
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: easterly wind in early November, I know exactly what I'm
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 1: gonna be. I just can't believe that thats gonna gonna
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: live in into November. To be honest, I hope he doesn't.
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: Now I'm gonna I'm gonna this is blasphemy and I'm
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: sorry to say this, um, but let's say you still
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 1: haven't killed Smokey or Trump in October or in November
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: during the rough phases, and we've made it all the
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 1: way to the late season. I know you're gonna be
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: a little bit bumped. I know you're gonna be a
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: little bit down at this point. And that's the case.
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: But what's the late season strategy for these two deer
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: if they still are alive but you have not killed
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: them yet? Well, if if I don't kill him, and
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: I know there's still a lot, that's that's right. I mean,
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 1: it's actually a little bit disheartening to go out and
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: shoot your target buck on the first day, and the
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 1: fun is kind of a chess game. And the longer
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 1: you get to play, the better it is, as far
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: as I'm concerned, So I wouldn't mind it all shooting
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: either woman Bucks on the last day off season. But um,
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: if if they make it to the late season, my
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 1: odds they kill him Trump or about zero that um
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: in his home area, there's no food plots by that time.
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: I'll probably have burned out every stand in his area.
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: If if Trump makes it to the late season, his
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: odd the maintenance the next year very very good. Uh Smokey.
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 1: On the other hands, you know I've got food plots
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: on that property he's on. Um. Some of the best
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 1: video footage I got in passing him last year. You know,
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: I didn't pass it. Passed him five times, but the
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: first time was I think November sixt so I didn't
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 1: even see that buck nothing. I was trying, but I
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: didn't even see him until I remember sixteen from stand
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: and then I end up passing five times. But some
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: of the best footage was late season. Most of the
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: passes were and I think that was there was twice
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 1: in November and the other three times were in December
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: and January. And I've seen him other times. He was
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: just out of range, and I didn't count that, but
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: you know that he'll be on those food sources. Um,
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 1: as long as I keep plugging away and keep watching
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 1: the wind on every high there will still be a chance.
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: It's a similar, similar strategy than to what you had
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: in the early season, right, hunting some of those food
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: related stands again, waiting for the right conditions. And and
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, you don't hunt morrings in December either.
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: And you're very particular about the days of going right right, Okay,
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: you want those cold fronts again. The cold of the weather,
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: the better he gets those mature bucks on their feet
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 1: before dark and afternoon. Um. If if I had one
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: can only pick one time in the year to hime,
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 1: it would be the late season and afternoons. And uh,
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 1: you can take the most nonclneal buck there is. Now.
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: If I had, if I had a property in in
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: Trump's area where I could plant food plot, I would
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 1: really be looking forward to the late season, because that's
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 1: one time when you can get anock colonel buck like
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 1: Trump on his feet. If you get temperatures down around zero,
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: that buck's gonna be on his feet looking for food
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: before the sun sets. And uh, you know, I even
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 1: ironically I tried to lease a small property in Trump's
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: area just for the purpose of planning a food plot,
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 1: and the landowner wouldn't go for it. But that's how
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 1: much I believe in the late season, and that I
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 1: think I would have doubled my odd to kill him
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: Trump if I could have had a small food plot
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: in his region or his range. Yeah, power of food.
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: How much do you think that the harvest of egg
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: fields and the surrounding area is going to affect any
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 1: of these deer? Ah? Well, well, for with Trump, for
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: for sure, you know, he's a He's an open farm
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 1: country buck. He covers a lot of a lot of area,
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 1: and as most of it's opened, the crops are still standing.
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's definitely gonna be to his favor. Um.
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: The ideal situation is that most of the crops got
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 1: harvested and there was like one or two corn fields
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 1: that weren't in range. Um. But I know where I'd
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 1: be keying on, man down the wind edge of those
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 1: corn fields got you. So let's think about this. If
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: you get to the end of this season and you
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 1: have not killed eur other of these two bucks, what
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: would you say would be the biggest reason for that. Like,
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 1: if you had to exploit hypothetically, you're looking back on
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 1: this season and I said, you didn't kill smoke your Trump,
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: What do you think? What what happened? Why would you
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 1: say that or what happened there? If you had a
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: hypothetical guess what the reason would be, or what the
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 1: challenge would have been, or whatever could possibly go wrong,
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: what would you think it might be? Well, there's no doubt.
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 1: The only thing that's gonna stop me from killing Smokey
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: is if if he dies another way, if some other
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: hunter gets him or h D gets him or something
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 1: like that. Uh, that's the only way I won't kill him,
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: because if he's alive, I'll get a shot at him.
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: There's just no doubt. Now Trump, on the other hand,
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 1: I will It's a total opposite. I will be shocked
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 1: if I do get a shot at him, right, So
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 1: I won't be a bit surprised at the season the
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: ends and I don't have him. Do you think you
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: killed your last two Hunding in two thousand four? I
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 1: think you said right. And now you've said for thirteen years,
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: you've been dreaming of this, You've been trying to find
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 1: another buck. You've been working towards this, this very rare animal,
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 1: you finally found one. How do you think you're gonna
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 1: handle that moment? Are you concerned at all about that
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: own of truth? I know you've killed a lot of big,
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: mature bucks like this is second nature tuning out. But
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: when you have this, this next chance, do you anticipate
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: it's going to be just going about your business or
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: do you think this is gonna be a little bit different.
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 1: It's definitely gonna be different. Uh. I thought long, I've
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 1: been waiting for this moment for thirteen years, and I've
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 1: played in my mind a thousand times. And when I
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 1: shoot that buck, even if I watched that buck fall,
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna slip out and I'm gonna call my dad.
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: And my dad walked up finding and I want my
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 1: dad to be the first one to grab his aithers.
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: That's cool. Yeah, you know, my dad wasn't a deer hunter,
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: but whenever I was a kid, I was just crazy
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 1: about the outdoors. And he always took time from his job.
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 1: He would save vacation days from his job just to
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: take me deer I mean, and he never really got
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 1: me anything about deer. And he didn't talk to teach
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 1: me about scrapes or rugs or anything like that. But
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 1: what he did teach me was that whatever we was
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 1: gonna do, he was gonna do it right. And there's
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 1: a story I tell that. You know, back whenever I
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 1: was a kid, it was hard to get a gun
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 1: tag in Illinois to shoot there because they were very
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: limited back then. And you know, you would put in
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: a drawing in the spring, and then in the summer
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 1: you'd find out if you've got a tag that year. Well,
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 1: I went to school and you know, I was talking
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 1: to some of my buddies at school that also hunted deer,
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 1: and this one kid told me, you know, him and
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 1: his dad they put in applications for everybody in the family,
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 1: the mom and the sisters, everybody, and they always had
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 1: a tag to use every season because somebody in the
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 1: family get a tagged. And I came home that night
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 1: at supper and told my dad knew that. I said, now,
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 1: I got a great idea. I know how we can
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 1: definitely get deer tags for sure. This year. We'll just
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 1: put in applications for mom and little brother and everybody,
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 1: and somebody would get a tag and we can go
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 1: deer hunt. And my dad let into me and let
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 1: me know that if I didn't want to play by
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 1: the rules, I wasn't gonna be deer hunting at all.
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: And I'm so grateful to have a father that that
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 1: taught me that how we did things was more important
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 1: than the in result. And uh, you know, if I've
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 1: just been blessed in the hunting industry to have so
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 1: many doors open to me as an outdoor writer and
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: such um and I attributed all to my dad teaching
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 1: me that we're gonna do things right. And when I
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 1: shoot that next two hundred, I'm calling him and I'm
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 1: not gonna let him know how big the bucky is
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 1: there anything. He has no idea. Right now, I'm about
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 1: to shoot a two hundred. I think I'm gonna shoot
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: a two hundred this year, But I'm just gonna call
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 1: him up and tell him that I need his help
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 1: and the deer out and he'll always he's always there
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 1: for me. He'll be there within minutes. And I'm just
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 1: gonna even if I see the deer fall, I'm not
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 1: walking up to it. I'm letting him walk up to
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 1: it first, letting him be the first one to grab
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 1: it by the rack. That'll be a special moment, I imagine. Yeah, okay,
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: now this is kind of related to the story you
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 1: just shared there, but maybe you can elaborate or maybe
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 1: there's something else. But so the the opposite of my
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 1: other my other question that that that first question was
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 1: if you didn't kill those bucks, what was what was
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 1: the reason why you weren't able to kill him? Now
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: on the flip side, let's say you do kill these
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 1: two Bucks, and you're sitting at the end of the
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 1: season and you're looking back on at other than just
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: the tactical side of things. So other than the fact
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: that you know, Smokey is on that property really strong,
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 1: and you've got lots of great habitat, and other than
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: you know, you have an annual pattern on Trump, Let's say,
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 1: other than the tactical things, is there anything intangible that
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: you would look back on say, yeah, it's because of
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 1: X or Y that was really the key to me
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 1: killing those bucks. Maybe it's something like persistence or patients
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 1: or you're I don't know, is there anything like that
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 1: that you would say is probably going to be your
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: key to the success that you hopefully have well, if
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 1: I feel like I said, if I killed Tryumph, it
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 1: will be a whole lot of lucky. It's really passion.
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 1: And I know a lot of guys that are going
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 1: to be listening to this podcast are gonna understand the passion. Um,
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 1: there's a lot that was very passionate. I think that
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 1: I've probably taken a passion to the level that most
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 1: deer hunters aren't gonna understand, but there's a few that will. Um.
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 1: You know, I just unfilled tags don't bother me anymore,
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 1: and they really never did. I'd set a goal and
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 1: it didn't matter what the goal was. I wasn't gonna
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 1: shoot a buck less than that, and if it took
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 1: me five years to get done, we'll so be it.
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 1: That was I was just so passionate about reaching that
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 1: goal that that I wasn't about to lower the bar.
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 1: I would do whatever it takes it takes to reach
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 1: that goal, and then I would leave the bar there
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 1: until I would consistently do it, and then I would
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 1: raise it again, and I wouldn't lower again. I would
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 1: just keep plugging away until I got good enough to
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 1: do that. And I think it's my willingness to to
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: accept empty seasons. I don't feel like I need to
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 1: shoot a buck every year. Um, I want to, but
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 1: I've got no desire to shoot the bucks below my goal.
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 1: And uh, you know, I just find satisfaction in being
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 1: out there anymore that the drive to kill is. I guess,
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 1: as strong as ever, but as different as I can.
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: It doesn't cost me sleep if I don't. In other words,
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm fine with with an empty season, so
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 1: you know, I just go for broke. Yeah, I think
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 1: something you said there is worth reiterating because I feel
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 1: like this whole discussion we've had with you, it's not
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 1: really you know, how to kill a buck or how
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 1: Don Higgins is going to kill a two deer. It's
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 1: really about how to achieve a goal. It's about how
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 1: you can reach your own personal goal. You your personal
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 1: goal for you, Don Higgins is you would like to
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 1: kill a two deer. But you know this, everything we've
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 1: talked about is just as applicable if your goal is
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 1: to kill your first four year old buck, you know.
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's all about setting what the right goal
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: is for you and your situation and your circumstances and
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: what's going to make you happy and feel fulfilled. Um.
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 1: And you know, I think it's important. And you mentioned
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 1: this earlier, right, the inches, The inches don't really matter
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 1: for you personally, Like it's it's a great way to
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 1: to to to achieve something that's rare and to challenge yourself.
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 1: But you know, it's all about setting personal goals and
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 1: and working towards those and and growing as a hunter
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 1: and having that experience. And I think having those goal
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: is a really great way to force you to grow,
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 1: to force you to confront a challenge and learn how
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 1: to overcome it become better because of it. Um. But
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know that's I guess my my thoughts on
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 1: this is as we're kind of wrapping this up, as
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking about all these things, I don't want anyone
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 1: listening to think like, oh, well I need to be
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 1: shooting hundred bucker two inch buck to be a great
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 1: hunter or something like that, or because Don's able to
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 1: pas deer, I should be able to do that too.
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, we're all on a different boat, we all
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 1: have different things, um. But there's something really powerful I
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 1: think about setting a tough goal for yourself and working
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 1: for it. Um. I think positive things come from that.
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 1: All the time. Um, I don't know, uh in my
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 1: ranting or if that makes sense, you're absolutely right. Yeah,
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. More absolutely I you know, people think
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 1: that because you know, I've got a lofty goals as
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 1: far as deer hunting, that I looked down on people
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 1: who maybe shoot deer whatever. And that's absolutely not the
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 1: case at all. I turned fifty four years old tomorrow,
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 1: and in that time, you know, I've had goals that
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 1: were you know, I started out any deer at dough,
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 1: I was gonna shoot it, and it's taken you know,
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 1: all this time. I started hunting when I was thirteens.
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 1: You know, I've got over forty years in the deerwoods now,
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 1: and all I did to get to this point. And
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 1: by the way, I never dreamed that I would let
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 1: a one fifty inch back walk, let alone a one
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 1: n So you know, reality. I tell people also that
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 1: dream big because God's reality is so much bigger than
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 1: you can ever imagine. Um. But when you set your goal,
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 1: just don't compromise your goal. It might take you years
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 1: to achieve it, but don't compromise it. If you compromise it,
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 1: then you never reach your goal. So you know, just
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 1: just set the bar at a certain level and keep
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 1: plugging away until you're able to consistently reach that. Don't
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 1: raise the bar the first time you reach it. You know,
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 1: if you if your goals a hundred and you shoot
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 1: one and it's your first hundred thirty, well don't raise
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 1: the bar to one forty. Next year, shoot a few
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 1: want and get really countable of shooting that size box
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 1: and then raise the bar. And and once you achieve
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 1: the next level, you know, do that a few times
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 1: before you raise the bar. But but except that, there's
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 1: gonna be some empty seasons along the way. I mean,
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 1: anything worthwhile didn't come easy. So you just you know,
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 1: stick with your goals and plugging away. Yeah, what are
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 1: your thoughts on all this, Dan? Because I know you
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 1: you personally have had, you know, some some tough goals
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 1: for yourself. And some years you you've eight Tex soups.
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 1: Some years you've you know, you've adjusted goals, like last
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 1: year you decided to try shoot a four year old.
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, where's your head at on this whole topic? Now?
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 1: As you've gone through some different things over the years.
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, I was obsessed with a buck for several
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 1: years and I learned a lot from that, dear. I
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 1: don't know if I necessarily would do it again to
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 1: go after a specific buck Um at this point in
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 1: my life, because although going after that that two d
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 1: insure when I went after him, and I almost you know,
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 1: I almost accomplished my goal. You know, I learned a lot.
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 1: But I passed a lot of deer that I should
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 1: have probably shot to get comfortable with that moment of truth,
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 1: because I was so focused on this other particular bucks.
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 1: So I was passing you know, one forties and one
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 1: fifty class dear that I probably should have shot in
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 1: those years. Um. And I I don't want I don't
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 1: want to ever get into position where you know, and
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 1: and and my circumstances are different than other people's circumstances.
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 1: So what I say is what I want to do,
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 1: and what don saying is what he wants to do.
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 1: But I'm never gonna I'm never going to let um
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 1: anything outside of the love of hunting dictate what animals
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 1: I'm going to shoot. M hmm, right on, Yeah, I
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 1: think I think it's and you know, some people are
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 1: some people are flying with shooting the first year it
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 1: comes along, well that that's their business. That's not not
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 1: that's not my business to tell him. You know, if
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 1: you want to be shooting the bigger box or whatever, Uh,
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 1: you gotta do what makes you happy. We're all individuals
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 1: and we've got different hunting areas and different amounts of
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 1: time to devote to it, different family obligations and job obligations.
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 1: What works for me may not for the next guy,
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 1: and probably won't. It's just you know, I have no
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 1: other hobbies. I haven't fished in over twenty five years.
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 1: I've never turkey hunt in my life. For me, it's
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 1: all white tails. That's what I live for. There's no
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 1: other hobby. So obviously, at my age, after doing it
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 1: for so long, your goals are going to be a
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 1: little higher than the average person. But that doesn't make
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 1: me any better than the other guy. God didn't make
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 1: me any better than the next guy. It's just made
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 1: me different. Yeah, yeah, I do. I do have a
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 1: question for you, though, and I don't want this to
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 1: come off as as rude. Um, but a deer for anybody,
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 1: you know, especially someone in the hunting industry, can elevate
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 1: their career. Um, what do you think would happen to
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 1: your career if you were to a you know, if
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 1: you were able to harvest one or both of these
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 1: animals this year. Oh, that's a tough question. That's the
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 1: toughest one I've had yet today. I'm not sure really. Uh.
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 1: You know, I've seen my consulting business really start to
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 1: grow here in the last couple of years, and I
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 1: think it would probably accelerate that just a little bit.
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 1: Um As far as writing right now, I'm writing about
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 1: the many articles I want to I'm not one of
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 1: those guys that wants to put out two or three
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 1: articles a month or a dozen or whatever. If I
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 1: could write one or two a month, you know, maybe
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 1: fifteen the eighteen article a year, I'd be happy with that.
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 1: And that's what I'm doing. So I don't think it's gonna,
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 1: you know, change anything there. Uh. It might help draw
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 1: a little bit of attention to real world and help
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 1: that business grew a little bit. Uh. I plan on
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 1: getting these hunts on video, so and I'm you know,
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 1: not affiliated at this time with any web show or
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 1: TV show or anything like that, so it might open
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 1: a door that way, But I don't know. I know,
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 1: it's not going to change me as a person. I'm
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 1: gonna be the same guy next year as I am
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 1: you know today, um, still passionately chasing whitetail, still looking
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 1: for the biggest one I can find, and always being
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 1: a student. You know, I'm no expert. I just uh,
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 1: I've got a lot of years of being a student,
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 1: so I'll just continue down that path. Yeah, yeah, no, Okay,
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 1: here's this makes me wonder what happens if you kill
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 1: both of these bucks you kills in the same year.
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 1: You've now killed three bucks. Do you have the two
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 1: buck bug out of your system? Will you be like, okay,
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 1: you know what, I'm just gonna I'm gonna stick to
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 1: my you know, all mature bucks, but I'm not gonna
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 1: be so obsessed with trying to find this next two hondy?
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 1: Or is it all right? What's the next run up
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 1: the letter? Now? I want to kill a two ten
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 1: or wanna? I don't know? Is there a next step
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 1: after this? If you were to achieve these goals? Yeah, well,
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 1: you guys say the hard questions for last that you know,
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 1: I think I will probably always you know, if I
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 1: kill two, then I'm gonna want three. If I kill
• 2:02:22
  Speaker 1: three and wenna want forward, it's not I I don't
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 1: know that till you're there. It's hard to say I
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 1: want to because very few bow hunters have killed two
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 1: legitimate two and uh but after that, you know, does
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 1: the third one make it any better? Does a third
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 1: one prove anything? Uh? The older i'd get, you know,
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 1: the less I hunt for any other reason than my
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 1: own self satisfaction. UM, it's not about opening doors in
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 1: the hunting industry or anything like that. Uh. There's one
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 1: point in my life where that that probably was a
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 1: factor in uh, you know, trying to shoot the biggest
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 1: buck I could find to sell more articles or get
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 1: a sponsorship from another company. But that's no longer in
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 1: the case I'm certain of. UM, I don't know, you
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 1: know what kind of doors it might open for. Maybe
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 1: it'll it'll allow me to gain people's here a little
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 1: bit better, and uh, you know, from all the things
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 1: I believe in. UM. I think there's been been some
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 1: celebrities are hunters have had the the published attention that
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 1: I wish they would have a little different message. I'm
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 1: not gonna beat my chest and say look at me,
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 1: I shot three two hundreds. I just as soon use
• 2:03:49
  Speaker 1: any attention to h for something good. You know, maybe
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 1: ethical hunting practices or or or who knows. You know,
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 1: I've spoken a lot of churches. Um. I'm a Christian.
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 1: I believe in using whatever means possible to promote that.
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 1: So maybe maybe the open doors there. Yeah, who knows? Yeah, ah,
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 1: something you just mentioned there, um, And I think I
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 1: really like your mindset and all that. Um. Something you
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 1: mentioned when it comes to promoting UM. Some you know,
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 1: the ethics of hunting and doing things the right way.
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 1: You talked about that earlier, your dad's influence on you
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 1: about going things, going through things the right way, doing
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 1: things the right way. UM. I think they'd be a
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 1: perfect place for us to leave leave things off here
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 1: on the podcast. Do you have any final words for
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 1: our audience as far as the importance of ethics or
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 1: how we go about what we do as hunters, anything
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 1: you've learned on that front that you want to share,
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 1: or any reminders that would be good for us to
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 1: hear here too. To end this conversation, Yeah, you know,
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 1: when I first started doing seminars, I would always end
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 1: with the same I would start the seminar with the
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 1: same slide as I would end it with the same slide,
• 2:05:01
  Speaker 1: and it was a picture of my first buck. And
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 1: on the final slide, we would go right back to
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 1: that picture me with my first bucket. I would ask you,
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 1: everybody in the audience to take a look at that
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 1: picture and ask themselves, what do you see when you
• 2:05:13
  Speaker 1: see this picture? Do you see some lucky kid with
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 1: his first buck or do you see you know this picture?
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 1: You've got to remember us from the nineties seventies. And
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 1: I'd say, do you you see some kids wearing a
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 1: funny hat? Or or what do you see when you
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 1: see this picture? And I'd wait a few seconds and
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 1: give the audience time to get other the thoughts, and
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 1: and I would say, no, matter what you see in
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 1: this picture, you'll never see what I see because when
• 2:05:39
  Speaker 1: I look at that picture, I see my dad. And
• 2:05:43
  Speaker 1: my Dad's not in the picture at all. But my
• 2:05:45
  Speaker 1: dad made it possible. And everything that I've done in
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 1: the hunting industry I attribute to my dad. So he
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 1: taught me to do things dry. So my final message,
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 1: I guess for this podcast would be, you know a
• 2:05:58
  Speaker 1: lot of us hunters are our mentors or two younger hunters,
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 1: whether it be our sons or whatever. And I've seen
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 1: over the years observing other hunters. If the apple doesn't
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 1: fall far from the tree, if a young hunter. You know,
• 2:06:14
  Speaker 1: if I'm in a seminar or a trade show or
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 1: something and a young hunter comes up to me and
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 1: I talked to that kid for five minutes, I can
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 1: tell you what kind of hunter his mentor was, whether
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 1: it be his father or grandfather, whoever. If that guy
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 1: with a whack on stock hum, if it's brown it down,
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 1: gang banger type hunter, that kid is going to reflect
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 1: those same values. But if that kid was taught to
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 1: hunt by someone with high ethical and moral values, that
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 1: that child is going to reflect the same thing. So
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 1: you know, I just hope this season is as fellow
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 1: deer hunters take out these young kids, whether it be
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 1: their own kids or others, to the woods, to just remember,
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 1: you're setting an example, and that young child you take
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 1: to the woods is gonna end up just like you.
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 1: So so set the right example well and let them
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 1: know you know that there's a right way and a
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 1: wrong way to do things, and make sure they always
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 1: see you doing the right things. Because the example you
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 1: said and can live long past you. I guarantee you
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 1: when my dad was taken vacation days from his job
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 1: forty years ago to take me to the deer woods.
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 1: He had no idea what it was going to lead to.
• 2:07:20
  Speaker 1: And uh, you know the kid you take to the woods,
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 1: you don't have any idea what that kid's gonna be
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 1: twenty five years down my mind. But that's a perfect
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 1: opportunity if you teach them so many lessons that are
• 2:07:29
  Speaker 1: way more valuable than anything you can teach them about deer. Yeah,
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 1: I think that is a terrific way to cap this
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 1: conversation off. So thank you done so much for sharing
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 1: all of this and talking through this whole hypothetical season
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 1: and indulging our questions. Um, I hope it was a
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 1: helpful exercise for our listeners. I think kind of getting
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 1: your mindset. It was definitely helpful for me to see
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 1: how you would think through all these things. So we
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 1: appreciate don And if people want to learn more about
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 1: the products you talked about earlier to day, or if
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 1: they want to follow along with with what's happening for
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 1: you throughout the season, is there anywhere online they can
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 1: they can find that stuff. Yeah, they they can find
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 1: information on the e h D product at Real World
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 1: Wildlife Products dot com or they can follow me on Facebook,
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 1: Don Higgins slash Higgins Outdoors um for my website Higgins
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 1: Outdoors dot com. But you know, I appreciate that you
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 1: guys having me on again. It's probably this podcast is
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 1: probably different than anyone you've ever done, but and we
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 1: covered some interesting things. And I just want to thank
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 1: you guys for you know, the example you guys that
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 1: for others in the industry, young hunters. I'm sure to
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 1: look up to you guys as well, and I appreciate
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 1: what you do. Thank you so much for saying that.
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 1: Don absolutely right back at you. And uh and finally
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 1: think most importantly, good luck this season. You've got quite
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 1: the season ahead of you and we've got all of
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 1: our fingers until it's crossed for you. Well, thank you
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 1: and I'll keep you posted. It sounds good and that
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 1: will do it. Another episode is in the books. And
• 2:09:07
  Speaker 1: here's what I've got to ask you for before we go. First,
• 2:09:11
  Speaker 1: if you haven't yet, I've said this million times so
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 1: you might be sick of hearing me say this, but
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 1: a rating or review on iTunes would be amazing. It is.
• 2:09:19
  Speaker 1: It is a huge help and We've already had over
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 1: seven of you leave a review and I appreciate that
• 2:09:25
  Speaker 1: so much. But every week, let's be honest, there's tens
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 1: of thousands of you downloading these episodes, so I know
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 1: there's a lot more of your folks who haven't done
• 2:09:32
  Speaker 1: a review yet. So no pressure, but you know, help
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 1: brother out. Also hit us up over at wired to
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 1: Hunt dot com and the Wired to Hunt social media
• 2:09:42
  Speaker 1: platforms to stay up to date on everything else we've
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 1: got going on. Um, you know my upcoming Alaska, Montana
• 2:09:49
  Speaker 1: and North Dakota hunts. There's gonna be a lot of
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 1: cool stuff I'll be putting out there and that will
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 1: be shared over on the website and Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, etcetera.
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 1: That said, well, wrap things up here where they big.
• 2:10:01
  Speaker 1: Thank you to our partners at Sitka gear Yedie Cooler's,
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 1: Matthew's Archery, Maven Optics, Whitetail Institute, North America, Trophy Ridge
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 1: and huntra Maps, And finally, of course, thank you all
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 1: for listening. Thank you for your attention and your support.
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 1: It is just so greatly appreciated. Until next time, stay
• 2:10:21
  Speaker 1: Wired to Hunt,