Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / Carl Tanzler’s Obsession With Elena Hoyos

Transcript

Carl Tanzler’s Obsession With Elena Hoyos · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: It's inevitable that her time will come to an end,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: and one way or another, we're all laid to rest.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: But what if someone struggles to say goodbye? What if
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: they don't accept that your time has come to an end.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Carl Tansler is one of those people, and without consent,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: he removes the body of Elena Hoyos from her final
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: resting place, and it would be years before his secret
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: was discovered.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Good Morning.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: The following podcast, and the graphic content and materials intend
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: for a mature audience.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Listener dis question is as.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, welcome back.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: I'm Nicole, I'm Ben, and you are listening to Wicked
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: and Grim.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: A true crime podcast in good old fashioned We start
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: off with a crack of a can there we go?
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: I feel like, for some reason that intro, like it
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: had felt like I hadn't done that forever And I
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: don't know why.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, the week before last we had the
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Q and A when you're on vacation.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but we did this last week we did, so
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I literally it felt like it's been
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: like a month for some reason.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: It does, actually, now that you mentioned it does kind
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: of feel like it's a little elongated, and.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know why, huh. I mean, it's a big
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: transition from like summer to fall. Maybe feels act sometimes
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: going quicker.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: I think that might be it because the days are
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: already shorter up here, the leaves are starting to turn
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: color and fall off the trees, whereas, yeah, last week
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: it still felt like summer, and this week it almost
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: feels like fall is full blown here.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like my chai tea latte, I had to switch
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: from a n E to a hot Oh.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: I thought you were going to say you had pumpkin
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: spice today.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: No, I'm actually not a pumpkin spice person. I don't
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: really love pumpkin spice.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: I've had a pumpkin spice one before. It was Actually
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: it's not bad.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: I'm all about chai tea latte.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Is it latte or latte, I don't know whatever. It's
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: a drink and it tastes the good.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it tastes real good.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Cool beans. Okay, what are you looking for to most
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: with with fall being around the corner?
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, I actually love fall. Okay for one thing.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: So my drink, my hout drink this morning was freaking amazing. Yeah,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: and I can put my ass warmer in the car again,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: fair enough, And I just freaking love that.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: Everybody loves a warm booty.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Oh do you have that in your truck?
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: I do not.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Oh that sucks.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Maybe I do. I don't know. I'm not how to
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: use it.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's new wish.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Well it's a work Yeah, it's a work truck. And
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: I never got like a run through on it. It
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: was like, here's the key. Have fun.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Well, an ass war is unbelievable.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe I should look and see if I actually
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: have one.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: And I love like just being cozy with like warm
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: blankets and sweaters and yeah.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: Fuck to the Yes, yeah, the colors, the spooky, the candy.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what are you looking forward to? The colors, the.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Halloween Halloween stuff in general. Honestly, I'm all about Halloween.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Fucking love it. And I'm stoked for the return of
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Jacko for Halloween Week.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Oh is Jacko returning? Have we announced this?
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Patrons know that Jacko's coming back, but I guess this
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: is the first drop that Jacko is coming back, And
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: so is Halloween Week this year?
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Well, I think we might have mentioned something about it
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: in our Q and A.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: To be honest, Okay, So well, if we didn't, we're
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: saying it here. If we did say it there, then
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: we're saying it again. How's that?
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: I just realized, are you gonna be wearing those glasses
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: the whole thing?
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I forgot.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: They were very distracting for me, really, Yeah, because I
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: can't see your eyes.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: I bought some knockoff pit vipers on Amazon.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's the coolest whatever.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: Well, they're normally like one hundred and fifty bucks, and
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying they're not worth it, but I'm not
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: going to pay that and they're not my style. So
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: it's just like I'm going to get fifteen dollars ones
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: for like super cheap so I can go fround.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but you're rocking them like they are your style.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they might become my style at this rate.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I do make these look good. But want
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: to know what else makes us look good? Our patrons?
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, because they fucking awesome. So we had a
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: couple of patrons sign up this past week, So shout
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: out to missed Sep and Ourcelli Selgato over on Patreon
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: for signing up this week. Thank you so much. You
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: guys are about to get an exclusive episode coming down
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: the pipes in yeah, two days.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's very exciting. Yeah, so don't We're close to
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: two hundred on that platform, which is pretty wild.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: We are and one and what else is pretty wild? What?
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: We have almost eight thousand reviews on Popify?
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, ratings. Wouldn't it be.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: More so about five star review they're rating close the
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: same thing?
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, so let's try to get that to a thousand.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: This is like our call to action here, no kidding, please,
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: Like we're at nine to sixty something I think so.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: So we get over a thousand, that would be dope.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: That would be dope. So yeah, if you want to
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: go rate us or give us a review, that would
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: be so appreciated. Thank you. If you want to go
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: follow some Patreon support us there, that would be appreciated.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: If not, you just want to be here, we appreciate
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: that too, Thank you so much.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, I got to take a photo of you in
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: these glasses to probably post so that people can see
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: what the hell is going on here because this is
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: a view and a half that I have there.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: We go, does it look good? Does it look good?
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Well? We have a lot of things on the railings
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: and stuff of our tinium for like soundproofing. So it
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: looks like our house is a bit messy, but it's
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: not technically, but.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: It's organized chaos right now.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I will post this because this is what I
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: get to look at for the next hour of my life, fair.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: Enough, well next two hours because recording the Patreon episode
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: after this.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: We are actually yeah, are you gonna can you? Can
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: you drop what the Patreon episode is or do you
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: not want to?
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: I will say this, it's nicknamed The Blindfolded Death. Oh
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: that's all I'm going to say.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Wow, Wow, Okay, okay, I'm apparently going to be in
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: for something here. Yeah, okay, So should we get chatting
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: about Carl and Elena here?
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: I think we should. Let's dive into it.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know how Cammon this story is. I
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: actually had I knew bits, but very few details on it. So,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: so Carl Tansler, he was born on February eighth or eight.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: I was going to say nineteen. I just like go
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: right to nineteen, but it's actually eighteen seventy seven. We're
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: going back here.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: That's definitely backaways.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: In Dresden, Germany. So Carl was a man of many names,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: so he was listed as George Carl Tansler on his
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: German marriage certificate, Carl Tansler Bonkosl on his United States
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: citizenship papers, just Carl's Carl Tansler on his Florida death certificate,
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: and some of his hospitpital records were signed count Carl
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: Kansler Bond costal count.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: What makes a person account?
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: So I had to look this up because I was like,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: I don't really know what that is. Count being a
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: title referring to someone who falls in the in the
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: middle of social hierarchy, so not a like king or
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: queen level, but far above like a commoner.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, got that, So it's just a social.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: Standing, yes, But from what I could tell, and like
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: from everyone else that was kind of reported, this was
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: a self proclaimed title. Oh he'd given himself after someone
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: he believed to be an ancestor, basically gotcha, So like,
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: I don't I mean, it's not for sure, but it
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: doesn't seem like like that was actually a title he
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: should have.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: Can I be a count?
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Sure? Because especially because he like immigrated over right to
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: the US, and so it's that seems like that's when
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: he started calling himself that gotcha.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: So what you're telling me is Count Chocula is popular
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: as fuck. He's better than the rest or most. Count Shocula.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: He thinks he's better than me. That's what you're saying.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: That's what you're saying right now. Sure you don't know
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: who Count Shocula is, do you?
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: I don't?
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: Are you serious?
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: Oh man? Do we need to take this out?
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: Okay? You know, like I don't want to look like,
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: you know, Tony the Tiger, the serial Oh, Count Chocula,
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: the serial Dracula.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Dude, Oh yeah, I know what that is.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Count Shocula.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Oh god, it's just been a while since I've heard that,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: like a really long time, like since childhood.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: Well, taking you back right now, yeah.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: We're just taking you back in all areas of life here. Okay,
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: So we're just gonna refer to him as Carl Carl,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: You got it. So Carl grew up in Imperial Germany,
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: but at some point ended up in Australia. He didn't
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: necessarily intend on staying in Australia for long, but ten
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: years later, as it goes right, prior to World to
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: the World, to the start of World War One, he
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: was still in Australia. While there he became interested in
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: engineering and electrical work. He supposedly brought properties, boats and
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: organ and allegedly an island in the Pacific.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: So he claims, I'm assuming.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: I know all this stuff is just like shit that
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: he claims, right like it's he's an interesting fellow. So
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: I guess you have to decide on your own if
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: you believe.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: That he sounds eccentric.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, that is a great way actually. So as
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: he began to build a trans ocean flyer, the British
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: military authorities placed Carl in a concentration camp, reported later
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: to be removed to Trial Bay too. It's like a
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: castle like prison on the cliffs. And at the end
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: of the war, and once Carl was released, he set
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: out to find his mother, who he hadn't heard from
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: since the beginning of the So that didn't end badly
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: for him. I guess he was released.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: He made it through, that's for sure. I don't want
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: to say he was lucky, because he certainly wasn't well. No,
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: but he's lucky to get out.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, he was able to see a release. Ye, So
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: finding her safe, he remained with his mom for a
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: few years before she he follow his sister to the
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: United States in this time, however, following his return to Germany,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: he also met Doris and together they had two children.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: So they got married and they had two children. Aisha
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: was born in nineteen twenty two and Clarista I think,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: was born in nineteen twenty four. So carl would immigrate
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: to the US though in nineteen twenty six, and he
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: initially left his wife and child behind for just the
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: time being. So he sailed from Rotterdam to Havana, Cuba,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: and from Cuba settled in Florida, where his sister was.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: He later was joined by his wife and daughter, but
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: left them behind once again as he took a job
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: as a if I could speak, radiology technician at the
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: US Marine Hospital in Key West, Florida. And that's kind
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: of where he stayed, and the story takes place in
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: YUS Florida.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: That would have been like quite a prestige job out
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: assume back in those days, because I don't think that's
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: like very prominent technology. They probably have very specialized individuals
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: who are actually operating those.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like there was lots of reports that said he
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: made a lot of money, and then there were some
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: reports to that said he had like nine degrees or something.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: Oh wow. I mean again, that's probably from his account.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: He's probably saying these things.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that might be an elaboration. I feel like that's
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of schooling. So and then when he was there, though,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: he gave himself another self proclaimed title of basically doctor.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Of course he did.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so like this do just has it all?
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Really another one of these fucked up doctor cases.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but he's not a doctor though, well he claims
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: to be. Yeah. So now, something else I haven't mentioned
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: yet is that in Carl's adolescent years, he claims that
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: he was visited by visions of a deceased ancestor. That
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: ancestor being Countess von Cassel. So that's kind of how
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: he got his count name got you revealed to him
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: the face of his true love, which was an exotic,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: dark haired woman.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: Awesome.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I mean a lot of people probably want that,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: right Yeah.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean last it was last episode we
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: were talking about mister tall, dark and handsome, right, oh yeah,
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: and now we're going to the exotic, beautiful, dark haired woman.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah you go. Oh my gosh, so cute. Elena Hoyas So.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Elena was a young Cuban American tberculosis patient at the
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: hospital Carl was working at. The hospital was unfortunately full
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: of people suffering from at the time, this incurable disease.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thankfully, not so much today.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Yes, thankfully. So Carl immediately recognized Elena as the beautiful,
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: dark haired woman that had been revealed to him in
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: his visions.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: And how many years later was this sorry that he
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: from his envision to today?
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well, so he was like an adolescent so
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: I don't know what that means, but like a young
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: teenager child. And now he is literally in where do
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: I have it? I believe he's like in his fifties.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Okay, point, so we're looking at like thirty forty years
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: or so.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: He waited a while for this woman to come to fruition,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: I guess you could say, okay, okay. So Elena was
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: born on July thirty first, nineteen oh nine, and she
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: was thirty two young, thirty two years younger than Carl. Younger, younger,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Oh shit years.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: I thought you're gonna say that she was thirty two
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: years young. Yeah, okay, she.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Was in her twenties and Carl was in his fifties.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, the both legal consenting age.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but we'll dive in a little deeper. There was
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: no consent involved. I don't think you're fair enough.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: So if individuals are of legal consenting age, I mean,
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: who are we to judge?
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, exactly.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: Weird creepy, sure, but legal consenting. We see quote unquote
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: gold digger types all the time with super ancient people.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, I mean yeah, whatever makes you happy, I guess, right.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: So she had two sisters, and tuberculosis eventually claimed the
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: lives of almost all of Elaine's immediate family, which is
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: very sad because back then, like it you're yeah, it
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: was very contagious, right, and no cure, So like your
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: fate was kind of sealed. Yeah, little bit so.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: And your best hope was basically to be in an
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: iron lung for the rest of your life, which is
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: not cool.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: No, no. Prior to all of this, Elena was actually
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: married to Louise Messa, but their marriage seemed to not
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: just not to survive due to a miscarriage. The two suffered.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Oh that sucks, yes, very very sad, no kidding, But
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: the report saying that Louise left Elena shortly after she
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: suffered the miscarriage and moved to Miami. So that's shitty.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know much about that, but just seems shitty.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: They were still legally married at the time of Elena's death.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Being that at the time there was no cure for tuberculosis,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Elena did ultimately die. Carl, with his growing obsession for Elena,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: tried to do everything in his power to save this
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: young woman, including acting as a doctor in an attempt
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: to treat Elena in a variety of ways, including a
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: mixture of medications and using X ray and electrical equipment
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: that he brought over to Elaine's house from the hospital.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Sorry, I was just gonna say, I wonder what his
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: family's perspective is on this, because I mean, of course
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: he's trying to save their daughter. That great. However, I
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: would imagine he's being a little creepy as fuck.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Probably a bit because he just seems like he has
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: this very like intrusive way about him.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: So. But then also, like I do chat about it
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: a little bit here, like it, Like I said, it's
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: very sad because the family kind of wasn't like a
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: state of desperation, right, m h Yeah, And from all
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: what I could tell, like they didn't have a lot
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: of money, and there wasn't any doctors out there that
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: were offering any help because there wasn't actually anything that
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: could be done.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: Exactly kind of one. I'm thinking that he's overstepping, and
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: I wonder what the family's thinking about, because like this
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: is incurable and he's like, basically I'm going to save
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: your daughter and doing all this weird shit.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Well, I think they're like grasping at straws basically, and
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: like he's taken advantage of their desperation.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Probably, yeah, fair enough.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Is what is how I kind of like took it
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: as but because I didn't really see anything that said
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: that they thought he was like a creep, but they
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: had to think that he was overstepping, but then they
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: were just accepting it because he was offering help. I
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: believe like they're in a very weird position.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: They're probably just like this dude really wants to help
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: our daughter, and like we really hope we can have
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: this done.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and he's the only hope. He's like literally
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: the only one offering them help, help, that be one.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Kenoby, you're my only hope, only hope. Help me, Carl Tanzer,
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: You're my only hope.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Oh gosh, you imagine that was your only hope. Oh so,
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: along with offering free medical care, he would also shower. See,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: and this is where it does get fucking weird. He
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: would shower Elena with gifts of jewelry and clothing, and
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: on many occasions, many like almost daily, he would professed
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: his love to her.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, see, this is getting weird.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: So I don't know, I think that they were very
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: much so in a sticky position. And like he also
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: like asked her to marry him too, like numerous times.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is definitely fucking weird.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: And he's a lot older, right, and she is dying,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: like she's dying. There's and there's no evidence to show
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: that Elena like reciprocated any of these feelings back whatsoever?
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Gotcha? Okay?
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: Like I think she probably was like politely like I
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: don't even know, like I don't even know you kindly,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: this situation just seems impossible to me, like impossible.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: What are you gonna do on your deathbed? And the
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: guy who's swearing up and down, he's gonna save you
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: is like professing his love to you.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: And like her deathbed was literally like a brand new
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: bed that Karl had purchased her. Like he went like
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: all out here, wow, so because he had a lot
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: of money, right, Yeah, But despite his efforts, Elena would
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: pass away in her parents' home on October twenty fifth,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: nineteen thirty one, at the age of only twenty two.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Damn yeah, very very shitty. Karl went about paying for
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: the funeral, so like he's paying, he continues paying for shit.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: So he pays for the funeral, and he pays for
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: the burial expenses. And he had a death mask made
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: of Elena's face oh or she was buried. Wow, Okay,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: I didn't actually really know what the frick that was,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: to be honest, So and I looked it up and
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: it's literally says that a death mask is being a
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: cast or impression of a person's face after death, typically
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: done using wax or plaster. Yep, It's like that is
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: that's not like a common thing today. I don't feel
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: like is it?
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: No, not so much. Although a little fun fact for you,
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: if anyone's ever taken CPR training or first aid or
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: once attendant. You know that CPR doll Annie Annie? That
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: is a death mask of a real individual.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that actually came up in my research actually, when
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: I was like looking at death masks.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: Though I'm pretty sure it's been altered quite a bit since,
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: but I would assume it still at least resembles her quite.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: A bit, because wasn't her face like just perfect or
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: something pretty much?
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that Michael Jackson song Annie, Are you okay?
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: That's right after Annie at all?
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah. We should be doing a podcast on that, shouldn't we.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Oh, that is one that I have in my books.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it would be very interesting because I
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: don't know like her story or anything.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: So actually, another fun fact to go on another tangent here.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Sorry, we does have fun bags coming out of the
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: ass today.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: There was actually a woman who claimed Michael Jackson wrote
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: that song about her. Her name was Annie, and she
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: was like obsessed with Michael Jackson.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Ship serious, Yeah, like she.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: Wasn't a stalker, but damn near on the verge of it,
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: she claimed that Michael Jackson was in love with her.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: And shit, that that was actually about her.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think there was like some some like late
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: nineties talk show about it. I don't think it was
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: like doctor Phil, but like an equivalent to doctor Phil
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: had her on there.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: She's like a Carl.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: Actually kind of, it's a Carl, like a full circle
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: just went around there.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: My god.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, sorry, I digress.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: No, that is great. So I was just going to
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: move on here. It's like if we left the story
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: at that, it's not the worst. It's not like the worst.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: It's creepy, it's uncomfortable, it's awkward, but it's not like
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: the worst.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's there's no crime being committed currently. He's just
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: kind of over the Yeah.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Well, there is technically a crime in the sense that
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: he's claiming to be a doctor stealing shit from the
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: hospital that he probably isn't entitled to take.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: Fair enough, So minor crimes. How's that especially for that?
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's I mean, there are crimes for the good
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: I guess, I don't know. But the story doesn't stop there,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: and after Elaine's death, Carl's obsession only grew and began
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: to consume his life. Yeah.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: I know where this is going. I know a little
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: bit about this case, but not all these details.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: So let's hear more so as he was at the
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: cemetery one night visiting Elena's grave. He noticed how wet
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: the ground was and realized that water, you know, maybe
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: seeping into Elena's coffin, which most people would be like, well,
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: like that's shitty, that's that happens, right, Yeah, So but
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: this would end up decaying her body at a quicker speed,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: and Carl couldn't handle the thought of this, so he
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: went about getting permission from the family to build a
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: concrete a concrete mausoleum to hold her body. He commissioned
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: the mausoleum to be built at the same cemetery. It
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: was the Key West Cemetery. And I'll post a photo
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: because the mausoleum that he got built is like stunning.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah I heard. It's like elaborate as fuck.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Like it's like beautiful, beautiful. And inside he placed a metal,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: airtight casket to hold Elena's body.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, a metal one.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: A metal one, damn. So the casket was also equipped
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: with an incubator tank that he would fill with fermaldehyde
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: to further stop or slow down the process of Elena's
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: body from decaying.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: Totally shit, Yeah, wow, that is intricate as fuck.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I feel like that just makes me like
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: squirm in my seat because it's a bit uncomfortable, Like
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: he needs to dislay her to rest. She played to
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: rest at this.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Point one hundred. But I will admit this fascinates me,
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: Like I am very intrigued. I want to hear more.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean it gets it goes, it goes
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: downhill here. So at some point Carl would end up
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: losing his job at the hospital where he was a
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: radiology technician, and this was around nineteen thirty three, So
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: some reports say he left the job, some reports say
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: he was fired for undisclosed reasons, and some say he
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: was fired due to the fact that he was posing as
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: a doctor and he brought like medical medical equipment to
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: Elena's home and attempt to treat her, which does make sense.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: But it was some time after Elena's death that he
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: had lost his job. So if it was the reason
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: of Elena, you think he would have lost his job sooner.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Well, I wonder if it was like after the death
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: and now he's like, I don't know, me being caught
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: with this equipment that is home or bringing it back.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I don't know. The most common report said
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: that he was fired for undisclosed reasons, so we'll just
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: stick with that.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: I suppose probably not being a doctor might be one
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: of them.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's like that deserves a little bit
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: more than even getting fired. I yeah, doesn't not.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: There should be some sort of legal reprimmendation.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So either way, this would only give Carl more
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: time to spend with Elena.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Oh that I just that gave me chills. That fucking
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: sentence h more.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Time to spend Okay, I would love to have more time,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: but I don't think I would particularly pick that way
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: to spend it. So he'd visit her every night, but
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: after he lost his job, these visits seem to abruptly
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: stop happening. People found this a bit strange, but no
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: one imagined the reason behind it. Around this time, there
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: was also an entry in Carl's journal, reading, I'm so
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: happy I'm back with you, darling. Very soon the hour
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: approached when I will take you home with me. So
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: in April of nineteen thirty three, with the extra time
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Carl now hot on his hands, he decided to move
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Elaine his body from the mausoleum and cemetery and bring
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: her home to live with him.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: Fuck yeah, how long had she been buried by this point?
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: Wasn't like two ish years or something?
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I say that later. Oh no, it's right there.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: So she passed away in October of nineteen thirty one,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: and this is April of nineteen thirty three, gez, So like,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: that's everything kind of a long time, and it honestly
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: seems it makes no difference to him if she's dead
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: or alive. Almost, oh, clearly, which is why wild? Oh yeah,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: like wild.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: This is what kind of fascinates me. It's this obsession
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: and what Lengthy's going and I can only imagine what's
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: going on in his head. It's got to be so
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: fucked up, honestly, I know, Like.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: It's almost I don't we'll get to that a little bit,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: but it's almost sad innocence. It's a little sad.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: I'm sure it is. Like in all honesty, when we
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: get down like we're true crime, we talk about a
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: lot of murderers.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we talk a.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: Lot about it, a lot of criminals, and all these
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: individuals there's something going on in their head where, yeah,
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: I feel bad for them because there's something maybe that
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: was in their early life that had affected them or
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: traumatized them, or some sort of disassociation that's going on
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: that is affecting them now. And it's sad that someone
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: has to go through that. But I'm really curious, and
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: like I said, like you just said, I'm sure you're
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: going to go through it here in a minute, but
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: I'm really curious to see what his reasonings, if you
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: will will be.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't even know. If you get an answer
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: relate to that, we'll see. We'll see as we go through.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: But I mean, like it's almost kind of like, I
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: don't know, like an OCD desperation thing like. But he
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: only had known her for I think it was three
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: months prior to her passing or something. It was not
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: a long time, but then he had spent his whole
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: life envisioning her. I believe, right, you know.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: Which I guess, you know, honesty. With the path he's
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: going down, this could quite literally be a manifestation of
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: love at first sight.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so okay, I already said that about how long
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: she had been in there, so and I'm no, okay,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: I'm no body decomposing expert, but I cannot imagine what
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: her body would be looking like at this point, and
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: it was not something I wanted to I was going
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: to research either, probably for the past. But it's just
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: it's gotta have some some stuff going on there, big time,
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, big time.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: So on the night he went to gather Elene's body,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: he showed up at the cemetery as per usual, like
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: every night, but this time he was sporting a toy
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: wagon and using the wagon he went to gather Elena's
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: body from the mausoleum. A toy wagon, You get a
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: toy wagon?
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: Wow?
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, so there's so much wrong here, Like, first of all,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: if you're ever see anyone walking through a cemetery in
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: the night with a toy wagon, wow, Like, it just
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: they can't be up to any fucking good. There's there's
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: no good to come up that.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like could you imagine?
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: I can't argue that.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, during the day, if there especially if there
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: was a child in there, I wouldn't think twice. But
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: at night I would just.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: Be like, I don't give a shit if it's if
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: it's the day or night. If I see a little
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: child walking through the graveyard with a wagon, I'm going
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: the other phone.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: Oh I meant a parent, how having the wagon behind
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: them with a kid in there. Oh okay, you wouldn't
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: think twice of that.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Maybe not so much that I thought you meant if
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: you see a little kid going to your coveyard with
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: a toy wagon. No, I'm getting the.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: Worse than the night situation.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm fucking gone. I'm sorry.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. And I don't even know if you
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: were to report this shit, because like you'd just be like, Wow,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: my brain's really messed up. I might need to have
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: like some rest.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: I'd be going to church. I am not a religious individual,
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: but I would be going to church. I can tell
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: you that right now.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. And the second thing is poor Elena.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: She had already been laid to rest twice and here
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: she is now being disturbed yet again in a fucking wagon.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Like, I can't even picture how that would look.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Like, first when she was buried, and then again for
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: the mausoleum, now again to what I presume is going
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: to be his home.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So two interesting things to know. First, Carl allegedly
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: was the one the only one with a key to
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: this mausoleum. So though Elena didn't have a lot of
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: immediate family left due to, you know, the tuberculosis that
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: had gone through her family. No one in her family
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: was aware of what exactly Karl was doing, which I
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: just hate that. And secondly, this was all okay because
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Carl reportedly said that Elaine's spirit would come to him
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: when he would spend time with her body, and her
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: spirit actually asked him to take her away from her grave.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Fuck that. I'm sorry, Carl, I'm coming bullshit.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: I know, I know. I mean, at this point does
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: he doesn't have much credit with us here, So.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: Again, I don't know what's actually going on in his head.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: He may have thought he's seen that, that may have
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: been what he literally experienced himself, but the reality of
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: the situation is I.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: I don't think it happened. I mean, gosh, if you
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: believe in something so fucking much, you could you could it?
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Could he could have saw it. I don't know. I
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: don't know, just playing devil's advocet there. So once they
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: arrived to Carl's, which was a small home by the sea,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: he began and I just hate this choice of word
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: that I put in here, actually maintaining her body as
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: needed in an old airplane that he had repurposed into
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: a makeshift laboratory.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Holy Frankenstein.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: That that's a sentence maintaining her body in a repurposed
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: makeshift airplane laboratory.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: No shit, wow, Okay, that like that's literally like Frankenstein's
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: monster sort of shit going on.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: Kind of actually okay. So first he went about attaching
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: her bones together, and he was and some said that
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: he was using like a string and wire basically. Some
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: people said it was piano wire. Next he had to
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: do something about her eye situation or lack thereof, and
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: he went about fitting her face with glass eyes, and
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: as you can imagine, Elena's skin was also decomposing. I
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: feel like at this point you'd wonder if maybe that
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: this just like wasn't a good idea, right, Like, at
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: some point you would feel like this wasn't a good idea,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: And the decomposing skin for me would be that that.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: Point, that's where you would stop, really there? Yeah, wow, Okay,
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: I think I would like to think I would stop
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: the moment the shovel is going in the dirt and
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: I would be like, what the fuck am I doing?
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: I don't know, just having to deal with decomposing skin
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: to me on like no, no, no, I'm out wow. So,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: as her skin was decomposing, Karl went about replacing it
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: with silk cloth that he had soaked in wax and
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: plaster of Paris. Huh. He also made.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm like to the point I don't know
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: what to say goodnight.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: I knew what to say. He also made Elena a wig,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: using her own hair as it fell off her decomposing sculp,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: so he'd like gather the pieces and then he turned
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: that into a wig along with this. Along like everything
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: I've mentioned, Elena's body was losing its original form, so
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Carl filled her body's abdomen and chest with rags and
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: dressed Elena's remains in clothing, stockings, gloves, and jewelry.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: This poor girl, I know, Like that's a lot of
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: it is.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: Carl would have been like he was seen in town
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: buying women's clothing and like a whack of perfume.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: Because yeah, I could imagine.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you would need more than perfume to cover up
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: that smell. So apparently disinfectants and more preservatives were also used. Yeah,
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: so good visual.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: I yeah, sure, if that's why you want to say it. No,
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: I'm just sitting here thinking like this poor girl, like
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: what he is.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: I know she didn't deserve this.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: No what he is forcing her to go through, and
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: she has no way of defending herself in the city
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: cuation like she has no voice, no one to speak.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: For, no nothing.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: She's just unfortunately at his will.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, along with sleeping next to Elena's body on
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: a nightly basis God, there was also a report of
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: a local boy witnessing Carl dancing with a life sized
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: doll through his window. All of this went on for
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: are you ready seven years? Seven years she lived with
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: him there. That's absurd, it's brutal. So finally, in October
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: of nineteen forty, Elena's sister started getting wind of rumors
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: going around of what could be happening here, so she
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: actually went over to Carl's home and to confront him.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: Being that Karl was the only one with a key
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: to the mausoleum, she demanded to be taken there to
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: see her sister's body, to which he said that would
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: be unnecessary, and instead of hiding what he'd been doing
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: for the last seven years, Carl actually took Elena's sister
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: upstairs to his bedroom, and there, lying in the bed,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: dressed in a wedding gown, was what looked like a doll,
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: features glistering like wax and glass eyes. Elena's sister was
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: obviously mortified. She didn't believe her eyes and actually didn't
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: believe this was her sister. I mean, I think your
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: mind would have trouble processing, let alone accepting that this
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: has happened to someone that you've loved, no kidding. The
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: sister notified authorities, Carl was obviously arrested, and Elena's body
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: was transported to a funeral home, where yet another autopsy
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: was performed because the sister requested it. She literally thought
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: that this was just a doll. Yeah, like, oh my god.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: Well, I can only imagine what he had done to
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: her over the course of those seven years. I imagine
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: she wouldn't be recognizable as a her sister, let alone
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: be at this point someone's remains.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: No, and there's photos out there too, so like, yeah,
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: I'll be posting the mausoleum, I'll post a photo of Karl,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: I'll post a photo of Elena. I should post one
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: at what she looked like, and then yes, it literally
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: does look like she's kind of like a life sized doll. Really,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: like her face.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: Is not human, Like I have seen a photo of
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: what she looked like post mortem. Mapp Yeah, this whole incident,
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: and yeah, it's.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: It's just looks like a human and kind of scary.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: So Carl was examined by psychologist and somehow found to
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: be mentally competent. What, yeah, how the fuck?
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: I don't know, Okay, he's just really sick then, so
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: what that blows my mind?
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: You fall in love with someone who is dying, You
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: build her mausoleum to store her body, eventually remove her
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: body from said mausoleum, to live with her while completely altering,
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: altering her decomposing body to almost look dull, like leap
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: next to her every night, be seen through the window,
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: dancing with her, and you're completely saying.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: What the fuck?
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like like, yeah, so he was fit to stand trial,
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: which I mean, I guess is good, right.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: I yeah, that's good in itself, But I can't imagine
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: someone going through all that and claiming all these things,
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: even before all this, the things that he was claiming
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: about himself.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: And yeah, like there's no way, like what I mean,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: maybe back then like the tests weren't what they would
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: be today.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: They definitely wouldn't be because this is we're talking about.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: It was like the nineteen thirties, forties, forties. Uh yeah,
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: it's definitely not up to what.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: It is today because like back then, even mental health
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: and stuff might not There wouldn't have been many types
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: of mental health really, and so maybe with what they
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: knew and had that was saying, yeah, but I mean,
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: anyone that steps back and just like looks and see
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: and thinks about what he did, there's no.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: Way that is an individual. He needs help.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So he was charged with destroying a grave and
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: removing a body without authorization. He had his preliminary hearing
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: on October fourth of nineteen forty, but the case was
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: ultimately dropped as the statute of limitations for the crime
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: had expiredck.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: I knew that was coming, and I should have seen
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: it coming earlier.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: Leaving Carl free to go.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: Damn it, are you? Oh my god?
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So now get this. I'm not done blowing your
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: mind here. There's a bit more there. During Elena's autopsy,
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: she was of course found to be that of a
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: decaying corpse and not a dolt. Yeah, they found exactly
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: what I reported on that her bones were held together
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: by wire and string. There were fragments of skin, but
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: what had deteriorated was replaced with oiled silk and wax.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: But what I haven't mentioned yet, oh no, is that
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: here was allegedly a tube found inserted in Elena's body.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Oh no, the tube was made out of paper and
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: inserted in Elena's vaginal cavity. I'll let your imaginations go on.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: No, no, I don't want my imagination to go on that.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: Thank you, No, thank you? Wow?
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: You want me to spell it out for you? It
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: was so sexual intercourse could be performed with the body
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: on the body.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: That poor fucking girl.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: And I'm no meaning to laugh about that. It's your
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: reactions because this is so fucked. It's so funny, like
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: it's so fucked.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: And this is an individual who is deemed competent sasane.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, he did never He never did admit to
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: committing any necrophilic acts though, And we'll talk about that
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: a little bit more on a sec here.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: What is with you in necrophilia cases?
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: Just go through the fox sakes? Can I just say
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: that I didn't know this was and then as soon
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: as I'm like, oh, because yeah, I know, I've done
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: a few, and I just like, I don't know why.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: That's all I'm gonna say. So after the examination of
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Elaine's body, I literally hate this. It doesn't make any sense.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: It was actually put on display? What public display? What
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: at the funeral home? Did you know that?
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: No?
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, so I get curiosity, I totally do. I do.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: Absolutely Where am I here? I've freaking lost my place
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: because I'm so upset here. But okay, she had been
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: through enough. Oh yeah, there is absolutely no way why
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: she would need to be put on display like that
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: is so fucked up to me.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: Well, like, because for the past seven years, this girl
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: had her face drugged through the mud metaphorically but like
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: in every which way possible, and then she's finally pulled
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: out of this fucking mud hole, pulled out of hell,
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: and then the public just basically spits in her face. Yeah, like,
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: are you kidding me?
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: So, teachers brought their students for field trips. Journalists visited
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: to report on this bizarre story, like it was quite
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: a story at the time, right. She became a tourist attraction,
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: with around seven thousand people coming to view her body.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Oh I honestly, at this point, I almost feel like
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: bad talking about her at this.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: Pat No, I know, I that part, like, I mean,
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: the whole part is crazy, but like, how did that happen?
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: Like how was that okay? Because the sister kind of
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: was involved at this point, right, So like, yeah, how
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: did that happen? I don't know.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: Well, I wonder if she even I mean not to
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: say that she didn't do anything, but I wonder if
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: she even had control at that point or if she
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: was involved, because maybe it was like, oh, she her
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: body is at this point technically evidence, right, and then
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: maybe federal levels whatever decided to display it and she
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: couldn't do anything, or maybe I don't know, for whatever
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: reason she wanted to display her sister. I can't can't
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: fathom why.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: I know, and it I mean, she does eventually, I'll say,
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: here get buried. But they had wanted to almost people
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: had wanted to last forever like her be like this
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: ongoing tourist attraction, which is so bizarre, like she's a
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: she was a human being. Yeah, rest that literally was
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: taken way too early and then went through this awful ah. Yeah,
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: So once her exhibit, for lack of better words, was over.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: Elena's body was eventually returned to the Key West Cemetery
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: and buried in an unmarked grave in a secret location.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: Good.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: The article said, peace to prevent further tampering, But what
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: I think they meant to say was to avoid fucking
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Caral from coming and collecting her once again, no.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: Shit or any sort of tourists or anything like that,
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: giving her final finally rest peace.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: Because one article said he allegedly asked if Elena's body
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: could be returned to him.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: Are you fucking serious?
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: He literally, I think thought it was like.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: His Wow, what the fuck?
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: Was really nothing to her? Like he's not family, he
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: wasn't even a friend. Like this is crazy.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: That right there shows that something is not right with
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: him because he doesn't see that he did anything wrong. Yeah,
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: he does not see Elena as an individual who's passed away.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: He sees her as a vision that's his.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well maybe not his, but he sees her as
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: a person who is with him. Yeah, like a wife,
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: like a spouse.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, they I mean she was in a wedding dress.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: I'm sure he thought they were married.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: How can any individual in their right, mind not see
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: someone has passed. He clearly sees her as someone who
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: is with him for their own will and alive. She's not.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah wow, Okay, so it gets a little worse here. So, yes,
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: the case is you can imagine, drew a lot of
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: media attention. The public wanted all the details, right, but
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: the general public consensus in regards to Karl was compassion
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: and sympathetic. He was viewed as a hopeless romantic and
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: that his acts were in the name of love.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: They're right, but that doesn't mean he's a victim.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm bringing love, romantic romance stories, romantic calm movies, whatever. Yeah,
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: but this is not one of them. This is like,
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: by far, not one of them.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. From his perspective, Yes, he's in love, Yes he's
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: being romantic. Yes he wants to be with her. You sure,
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: you're right.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: However, he doesn't have consent.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: He doesn't have consent. It doesn't mean he has the
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: right to do this. It doesn't mean she is his possession,
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean he can do any of this shit. Just
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: because you love someone does not give you the fucking right.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because she never once confessed her love back to.
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: Him, even if she did in her death, yeah, put it.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: Put it this way, what does marriage say till death?
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: Do we part? After that? You don't get any say
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: on the individual anymore? You lay them to rest.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And if that was true that she was married previously, right, Like,
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: because this story is so old that sometimes it's hard
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: to like find the right information. People word it differently
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: in YadA YadA that. But I mean that man given
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: up on her, but he technically could still have had
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: some control over what was going on, you know, but
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: maybe he didn't. He he was in Miami and stuff, right, So,
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: but even still, some of those control or decisions are
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: going to be like, where's the plot going to be?
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: You know what? Yeah, what sort of tombstone or headstone
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: or gravesite. It's not going to be like what should
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: we do with their corpse afterwards? Yeah, she's not going
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: to be your Marionette puppet. We need to give her
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: peace and lay her rest.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: Absolutely she deserved that. So there is something that we
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: need to touch a bit more on, and that's the
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: whole necrophilia portion of this case, because it was allegedly
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: not reported on initially, and this was something I found
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: very interesting. It was actually many years later that information surface,
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: Like we're talking thirty years later.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm pretty sure people could assume, well.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: They could, but Okay, there's just so many things here,
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: so which it makes like the allegations of this necrophilia
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: slightly questionable because you have to wonder why was something
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: to surface from physicians thirty years after the examination? Yeah,
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: could this be a nasty rumor? Because one article said
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: it came out after carl Hood passed. But if necrophilia
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: was the case, shouldn't that have been brought into trial
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: because he could have been charged with something there? I think, yeah, right,
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: because that was happening at the time. I've found so
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: that would not have like expired, The charges could not
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: have expired.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: Of that, that's true.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So that's why I'm like, why was that not said?
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: Well, maybe let's put it this way. Maybe it was
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: concealed because they couldn't prove that there was any section.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: Well, there was some articles that even said they found
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: sperm in there though, or maybe it was something that
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: later had been proven. I don't know.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: Maybe maybe with DNA testing they were able to confirm, yeah,
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: sperm or something like that was in there.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: So and if the vaginal tube was something that surfaced
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: at the time, would the public still have had so
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: much compassion towards Carl is something I'm curious about. I
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: don't know, right, I don't know. So I feel like
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: maybe they wouldn't have that wouldn't have been like the
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: ultimate love story. Then I feel like, I don't know.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean Romeo and Juliet is technically the
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: ultimate love story, but they only knew each other for
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: like a week and then committed suicide for each other. True,
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: So that's also a strange one. Who knows if that's
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: really a love story?
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: Right? Yeah? Yea. So, last, but not least, Carl would
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: be found deceeised in an abandoned house in nineteen fifty
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: two at the age of seventy five. He was lying
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: next to a life sized doll wearing the death mask
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: of Elena. To say he was obsessed with Elena would
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: have been an understatement. The old airplane makeshift laboratory Carl
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: used to maintain Elena's body was part of his ultimate
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: plan for her. He called it Elena's Airship, and he
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: eventually wanted to use the plane to fly Elena high
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: into the stratosphere, So I was like, how the fuck
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: do you say that again? So that radiation from outer
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: space could penetrate her tissues and restore her back to
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: life form. That was his ultimate plan.
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I did hear about that part before.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: Which is wild. So I mean he literally believed that
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: she would like come back to life for him, I think.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, I find this story fascinating, but I get
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: so angry by it at this at the same time. Yeah,
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: all I know is like, like Carl's fucking bananas man,
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: like b A n A n A s like he's
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: he's bananas.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: I know, Like I was. I was chatting with a
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: friend and I was like if I literally like had
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: have that had done this to Ben or something like, right, well,
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: I'm not plot and shit, but like when you're old
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: age or something like, I literally just have your body
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: and shit. Like I'm pretty sure people would like not
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: think I was. Okay, I think so, but I don't know.
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: Not that it's an excuse, but I mean it is
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: a different time, yeah, but not that it's an excuse.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: So the last entry in Carl's journal said, human jealousy
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: has robbed me of the body of may Elena yet
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: divine happiness is flowing through me, for she had survived
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: death forever and ever she is with me. Wow, So
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: they're all something else. I didn't mention. Apparently her mausoleum
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: at one point was like a bomb put in there
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: and exploded.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: Holy shit.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: So and it speculated that like Carl did that because
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: he was angry I didn't get to keep it. Yeah,
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: blah blah blah.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: But wow, I do want to say. I don't know
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: if you've heard, I don't know what culture is there,
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: but there are some cultures where like every three to
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: five years they will unearth loved ones. Oh really, and
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: there's like a day where they celebrate them. They dress
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: them up and take pictures with them at dinner and stuff,
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: and it's part of their culture. It's completely normal. However,
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: this obsession to do it and imagine this person is
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: still alive, desecrate them.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: It was just a day. It was literally like every day.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So so some cultures do these sort of things.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: And I mean, every culture is different, and that's that's fine,
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: but I think culture Carl took it to an extreme.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: That is, is that the day of dead that.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: You're referring to, No I don't think it is.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna have to look that up. Yeah.
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: No, Day of the Dead, that's that's in Mexico. That's
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: where they what's the celebration they do. They light candles
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: and everything. They have pictures of their loved ones and
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: there's big festivals.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: And gather and celebrate.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: And parades and stuff. Yeah. Yeah, no, that's not one
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: where they unearth their loved ones.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, as far as I know, I get that every
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: culture is different and totally accepting of this. But this,
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: this story is like, it's not a cultural thing. That's
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: just Carl being.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: Creepy.
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, to put it nicely.
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: If for sake of the argument, let's just assume that
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: Carl is in one of these cultures where they do
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: unearth their loved ones on a regular basis. Okay, Yeah,
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: let's just assume that we know he wasn't, but let's
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: just say he was for the sake of the argument.
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: If he was behind the family's back and unearth's the
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: individual when they're not supposed to be on earth and
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: takes them away and lives with them on their own,
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: that is still not cool. That is still not okay.
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: He's still doing something to an individual who cannot defend
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: themselves against their will. Yeah, without consent, yep, period. Not cool.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, Carl's not cool.
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: You're not cool, Carl, Carl, You're a piece. That's his
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: new nickname. Not cool Carl.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: Not cool Carl. You heard it here, that's his new nickname.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, gosh, that's a pretty kind nickname.
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: Should I have a shirt that says that, not cool Carl?
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: Not cool Carl. So yeah, that's the story of poor Lena.
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: Wow, poor girl. I am super glad she got to
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: be laid to rest and is at peace and it
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: was not being gokeed at anymore.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because like this story, it's out there. So even
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: if she was laid to rest and like say, monitored
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: or something, but had her name on her gravestone, she
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: can't visit it. Oh yeah, so this this is this
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: is the best way this story have ended.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: So there's one there's a difference between individuals visiting for
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: respect and another to be gckdat Right. So I'm glad
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: she's not getting gockdebt.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: I do hope that some family knows where she is
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: and they do visit her.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: Still there, I know. I hope of that. Yeah, so well,
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: well well done.
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: Like I said, this case pissed me off, but well done.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: I know it's a wild rod this case. We say
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: that over a lot of cases, but this is a
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: lot of It's a lot of unexpected shit happens here.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so not cool, Carl, Yeah, my gosh. Well, thank
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: you for being here. We appreciate you as always. If
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: you want to check out our links in the description
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: of this podcast, you can hit us up on Instagram, Facebook,
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: We have Twitter, we have read it, we have a website,
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: you name it. We have Patreon, and actually on Patreon
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: you can go check out exclusive episodes and behind the
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: scene content. That exclusive episode comes out with the last
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: day of every month, which is coming up in righte
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: about like two days right now, So go ahead sign
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: up and support us. If not, we appreciate you just
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: the same. Thank you so much for being here. Thank
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: you so much for always supporting us, because without you
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: even listening, we wouldn't be doing this as we are today,
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: So thank you exactly.
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, so until next time, stay wicked.