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Making Monsters: Carmen Vitali on the Bears position battles and more · 2nd City Gridiron

• 0:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, welcome back to another episode of Making Monsters.
• 0:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Taylor Dahl.
• 0:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we're Carmen Vitale.
• 0:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Carmen, for hopping on host on Saturday's Fox Sports Radio, but you see you're everywhere.
• 0:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know you've been busy getting married and doing a lot of things, but the football world never stops.
• 0:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: So thanks for hopping on.
• 0:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my gosh, of course.
• 0:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's our off season seems even shorter than usual, but that's what happens.
• 0:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: When you spend a month in Europe, pour me, right?
• 0:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: It looked wonderful, it looked like I probably wouldn't have wanted to come home for fear.
• 0:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, we really didn't, but now that we're back, it's like, all right, football season's here, let's do it.
• 0:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I guess best time to come back, right, when it's kind of like the take off for football season.
• 0:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I want to chat a little bit about some of the offseason storyline, some of the recent storylines, and then get in your expectations for
• 0:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: maybe what we're expecting this weekend as they play the bangles.
• 0:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're hearing some reports out of camp right now.
• 0:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: We saw a Dylan Theneman pick off a Joe Burrow.
• 1:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Those are things you like to hear from a rookie safety that you've been maybe wanting to see a little bit from.
• 1:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I do want to start though with the offense, Carmen, because I've seen you talk multiple times including with Kay Adams recently about Caleb Williams.
• 1:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that storyline of last year being
• 1:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: fed through a fire hose and that that phrasing and now it just feels like he's so much more in control of this offense and the understanding of it and it feels like his which is nice and try to let a bit about that and what you've seen from Caleb Williams so far.
• 1:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's interesting because last year, the first year under Ben Johnson, Ben wasn't shy about saying, like, we are going to overload these guys, not just Caleb, but the entire offense.
• 1:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they're going to lean on some particular guys to kind of help that transition.
• 1:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Most notably, guys like Joe Tune, who have been through multiple systems and have success and multiple systems.
• 1:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but with Caleb Williams, it was really about breaking him down, which again, Ben used this exact terminology, this exact language with us last year.
• 1:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to break him down, strip it down to the studs and then build him back up.
• 2:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's exactly what happened.
• 2:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: So in the beginning of everything last year, during training camp last year, everything looked incredibly disjointed.
• 2:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a hard watch.
• 2:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I keep using that because it was, it was like, oh, God.
• 2:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, I
• 2:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I had seen Ben Johnson do this in Detroit and followed that very closely covered that very closely.
• 2:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I had faith and kind of trust that it was going to end up working out.
• 2:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it did.
• 2:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: It didn't happen right away.
• 2:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they were two and two with the buy last week last year.
• 2:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they had to be early buy, which just stinks.
• 2:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: But you saw kind of after that there was a lot of stuff that got tweaked and they kind of reset themselves and that's where you started to see the ascent and it happened all the way into the playoffs to the division winner all that's so this year You're not starting from square one now as much as they say, oh, we're still focusing on fundamentals and this that the other Caleb Williams looks like he's in control Caleb Williams looks like he knows what he's supposed to do the biggest thing when it comes to Ben Johnson is Ben Johnson wants his quarterbacks to see the game and to see the field the way that he does
• 3:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: And last year, Caleb Williams couldn't even see what was in front of him much less like what the defense was doing and how he was supposed to react to that and this that the other and that's what Caleb has been very Candid about this year and now he can actually worry about what the defense is doing because he knows what his role is, what his job is and he knows what this offense is supposed to look like which is light years ahead of what it looked like yesterday
• 3:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know, I remember the early panic of like, oh, no, Ben Johnson's the wrong style coach for Caleb and Caleb's a wrong style quarterback for Ben Johnson and we are like, just give it a second, please.
• 3:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Carmen, so if someone were to ask you who this offense ran through, is that an even, is that a question that can even be answered with this because I think you can go run game, you could go coast and you could go loot there and there's just so many different ways.
• 3:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: But would you have an answer to that if somebody asks you right now?
• 3:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean this often still runs through the offensive line and that was the biggest thing last year that brought a smile to so many of these guys faces I remember talking to Darnell right in the locker room and him just saying like this is the first coach I've ever had him being the coach being Ben Johnson that.
• 4:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: has told me how critical I am to in offense and how much they're going to depend on me and how you know just validating Darnel right in the rest of the offensive line and it's not to say that other schemes don't but Ben Johnson really I mean you look at the run splits last year and just how much especially
• 4:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I broke down quarter's one through three versus quarter four because we had all of those come back Breeze that like we're just completely impossible looking and what I mean again You talk about a hard watch Quarter's one through three were hard and Benchons and knew that you had to kind of Loing lean on the run game in those moments even if the run game wasn't quite working or whatever But then it did and it was dominant and it was all because of that offensive line
• 4:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that really sets up the entire offense because you're going to get explosive plays out of the run game in Ben Johnson's offense.
• 4:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not just to set up play action.
• 4:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not just to be the filler as it was kind of earlier in the year for the rest of the offense to lean on this is they they lead with the run game and I don't see that changing despite the fact that they do have a wonderful downhill passing attack.
• 5:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think,
• 5:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Mary the run in the past, but that is it all goes through this offensive line one way or the other other guys that are on the line of scrimmage and everybody gets involved in run blocking, everybody gets involved in just the entire scheme, like Ben Johnson runs his entire meetings, runs his run game meetings with everyone there.
• 5:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not just with the offensive line in the running back, the tight ends are there, the receivers are there, everybody's there.
• 5:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it really is the
• 5:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: What did you see happening when you were talking about those breakdowns between the fourth quarter was it just a matter of Caleb getting comfortable the deeper into games or what was that looking like in that sense?
• 6:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was incredible because the Caleb Williams numbers in particular just completely spiked when you're talking about completion percentage, when you're talking about kind of even the his pat like his throwing map, his passing map.
• 6:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: When you're looking at just where he was throwing he like he had he spread the ball out all over the place and there were just his stats just almost inexplicably went through the roof in the fourth quarter.
• 6:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know if that's like, you know, he would talk about, well, I just have to kind of lock in and I need pressure to do that and this that the other and you're like, okay, that's great that you can do that, but it's really dangerous way to live if that's how it's going to go so you want you want to work on, you know, not having to you're not going to overcome that deficit those deficits this year against the schedule that you have so you hope that now that he really understands the offense that you're going to see that, but when you look at I mean, there were there wasn't any.
• 6:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think this was a bigger thing too, was there wasn't any significant difference in run pass splits between quarters one through three and then quarter four.
• 7:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: He like Ben Johnson still stuck to the run game, but you got a lot of explosives out of it too, so it was really just kind of a team effort in those fourth quarters with their backs against the wall.
• 7:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was just it was really interesting kind of split to do and I just I hope that we're not in for that many heart attack this year.
• 7:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is like look I had a lot of fun at the end of games, but I was very stressed for a lot of them, you know It's easy to like say that that was fun and I know that the bears ended up winning those games So so like as a bear span you're like oh, yeah, that was really fun at the time.
• 7:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was not fun It was very nerve-wracking
• 7:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
• 7:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I remember because I was at the Bears Packers game in December when, you know, the comeback on that one.
• 7:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I remember at one point looking at my cousin and I'm trying to remember the score.
• 7:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was like 12, 3 or 12, 6 or something.
• 7:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, if I spent all this money to fly up to Chicago to watch a game where the Bears lose and they can't even score like 10 points.
• 7:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be really mad.
• 8:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the next thing you know, it was a Jada Walker touchdown.
• 8:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then it was the on-side
• 8:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know recovery and then the third I was like holy moly like that moment was so high But for three quarters.
• 8:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was miserable.
• 8:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's not do that again Yeah, it was it was it was a complete roller coaster and I mean I won't lie There were multiple times where I was like they can't possibly do this again, right?
• 8:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can't possibly do this again by the end of the season I got to the point where I was I was like oh my god, they're gonna do it again
• 8:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why the playoff game against the Rams, their last game, the division around was so insane to me because they got that comeback.
• 8:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: They forced over time and I'm like, oh my god, they're going to go to the nasty championship.
• 8:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it just, it didn't happen because I mean, Matt Stafford is that good and Tommy Bay and the Rams, they are that good and they look to be that good again.
• 8:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but it was one of those things where I was like, oh my god, they're going to do it again.
• 8:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then the luck finally ran out a little bit at the clock struck midnight a little bit in that game.
• 8:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: But what are the almost you almost wish they went for to in that game?
• 9:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like I feel like looking back at the moment.
• 9:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was probably like, go to overtime, let everyone rest a minute.
• 9:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: But looking back and like, man, I feel like you had all the momentum in that moment.
• 9:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you go?
• 9:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: I had I had those thoughts too.
• 9:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, he's got to go for two, right?
• 9:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's got to go for two.
• 9:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's got to do it and I think Ben Johnson expressed some regret and like remorse after for not doing that like after the fact where he was just like yeah we did have the momentum and like I had been aggressive that's the thing is the bears had also been very aggressive in play calling and also in fourth down situations which also kind of allows you a little bit more leeway with the run game when you know that you're going to go all four downs then you can run on second and long because you don't like you know you're going to get two extra chances at it if you're going to be that aggressive and you're going to use all four downs that way.
• 9:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: and Ben Johnson proved that he would do that.
• 9:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you kind of think that the thinking carries over to stuff like a two point conversion and going for the win versus playing for overtime and this that the other.
• 9:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I also understand in the moment, it was like, okay, we did this and we've done it before.
• 10:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: So why not just play in overtime and especially with like the rules being the way that they are were in kind of is a little bit more shot.
• 10:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: You do get a shot, you have to kind of place your trust.
• 10:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: in your offense there.
• 10:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't blame him for doing it, but I had the same thought at the time where I was like, I just threw it to it now.
• 10:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to talk a little bit about those other wide receivers.
• 10:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: We talked a ton about Roman Luther, obviously, in the tight end room in general, but this last preseason game, it was kind of Marie Sallic Zander and Kaden Davis's world and we were living in it in that game.
• 10:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: But there's certain guys, a jolly walker, a cleafraiment who they brought in as avian Thomas who's been banged up looks like he's kind of getting healthy now.
• 10:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I personally kind of want to see that because you want to see what that whiter-severed three, four look like before you get to the season.
• 10:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Would you like to see a little bit more of that this weekend?
• 10:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think you're going to it's I don't necessarily know how much you're going to see Klee frame and just because Ben Johnson is obviously very familiar with Klee.
• 10:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And also he's a veteran and he knows what he's doing and he was brought in to to kind of be that bridge between the coaching staff and the players because he is.
• 11:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: a little bit older and he's very, very well-liked in that locker.
• 11:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's such a huge, such a great guy, and even, like, in Detroit, he was the best.
• 11:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know that you'll see a lot of him, but yeah, I mean, I want to see some of the younger guys get their opportunity.
• 11:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like you said, Maurice Gaukes, Andrew, Hayden Davis.
• 11:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, these are the guys that...
• 11:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: you keep as special teamers but you never know when you're going to need them.
• 11:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: The one thing I think the bears have going for them a lot though is because the incorporation of the tight ends and I only I think that 12 and 13 personnel sets are only going to go up kind of league wide.
• 11:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that Ben Johnson's going to utilize that package, those packages a lot more, especially with their drafting of Sam Rauch who is an absolute bulldozer when it comes to blocking everybody talks about how good a blocking tight end is.
• 11:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: But you also see the hands, he's got hands.
• 11:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so if you have, you know, you can try out 13 personnel with three tight ends that can conceivably catch the ball on top of being very either willing or great blockers.
• 12:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's going to present a lot of problems for defenses, and that's exactly what Ben Johnson wants to do.
• 12:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: So because of that, I think that you can afford to run a little bit more shallow in the wide receiver room, because your tight ends are so involved in the receiving game.
• 12:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I do think Colson leveling is going to be the number one receiver on this team this year, but it does afford you kind of the ability to not carry as many wide receivers when your tight ends are so crucial to what you're doing.
• 12:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: you mentioned the run game and obviously that's going to be one of the the focal points is going to be continuing that to your point Ben Johnson has done it here in the one year he did it in Detroit that's kind of where he lives.
• 12:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: We come and on guy you know gets an injury we're hearing that probably through camp looks like he should be back to start the season but
• 12:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have concerns in the sense of calm and on that because I think he understands this offense.
• 12:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not one of those guy, one of those people that was like, oh, he needs these reps right now.
• 12:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's always good to have them, but I'm not worried in that sense.
• 13:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I think that does bring up some conversations of maybe some of those running backs.
• 13:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: We saw the Andre Swift miss a little time last year.
• 13:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and then so this guy's behind him and Ahmed this last year at this last game over the weekend had one of the breakaway kind of juke-out some people got to get to touch down in that rush on Johnson's
• 13:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's he's he's stand like he's stand a float on this roster.
• 13:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's like the guy don't go away Which is a good thing.
• 13:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want that to sound like bad or anything, but like yeah He's he's stuck around and he can give you kind of some of those tough yards if you if you need him especially in the event of an injury Britten brown has also been like a camp kind of
• 13:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Darling in in some respects.
• 13:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that this running back room, especially, I mean, you hope that John Gray Swift and Calvin on guy are healthy because down there so far, like what we've got to see in practice has looked phenomenal.
• 13:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like he looks great.
• 13:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: He has, you can just tell that he knows where the play is supposed to go.
• 14:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Again, has a better handle on what this offense is trying to do and a better
• 14:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: kind of ability to find daylight as a running back, which is all you ask these guys to do.
• 14:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And when you have an offensive line like the bears do, and I'm very hopeful that Garrett Bradbury can maybe not quite feel Drew Dalman shoes, but at least enough that it doesn't kind of disrupt the interior of that offensive line.
• 14:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: But the way that, I mean, there are these guys
• 14:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: is incredible.
• 14:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I only see that getting better.
• 14:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so in that regard, you have to think it kind of makes the running backs job pretty easy.
• 14:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 14:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: One more offensively, and then I want to move over to the defense, but the left tackle conversation that was already coming into the season, obviously with the injury of Ozzie DiPillo, good news is he's healthier sooner than or
• 14:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: healthy yes, you know, we'll see what it really looks like if he can get out there and get reps, but they moved recently when it comes to Braxton Jones, we knew kind of he was that number two, but during the game, the preseason game, it was Judric Wills and Kairan on my Gargi and then all of a sudden they moved the Obenadette behind Braxton Jones now.
• 15:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: So there's a little little twist in turns there when it comes to that left tackle, but what do you think about that room right now?
• 15:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, the benefit of whoever ends up playing left tack was that they get to play next to Joe to me.
• 15:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that was the, yeah, that was the conversation all last year where it was like, especially because you did have Drew Dalman who held down that center position beautifully and took a lot off Caleb Williams played in the kind of identifications and the checks that he was able to make.
• 15:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so you didn't have to worry about him.
• 15:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: So Joe tuning got to help out the left tackle whenever they needed it.
• 15:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: This year, I
• 15:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: While Garrett Bradbury kind of gets up to speed, I think Joe Tune's attention is a little split at this point, and that's kind of what concerns me about having a rotational kind of Open a revolving door at left tackle where I don't know you're gonna be able to get away with that as much this year.
• 15:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I do think that, you know,
• 16:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, that was the last like that was the left tackle of the future and this that the other but at the time it wasn't as readily apparent that he was the future and I still think he is and I think that he is the best option when healthy but you also have to allow for some type of ramp up period when he went through the injury that he did the fact that he's back practicing is incredible but I don't want to take that for granted and think that he's going to be ready to start week one.
• 16:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: If that's the case, I mean, Braxton Jones is the most familiar with this system.
• 16:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have some issues with how I can I see him anchoring and the leverage and like I don't his his pad level and and those kinds of things when I watch him.
• 16:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Judging pills, I mean, people forgot like he was
• 16:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: really good in Cleveland for a while.
• 16:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: He thought they looked at least like he was going to ascend to his draft status.
• 16:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think if you can find a way to get that Judric Will's just the way he's built and everything that he has everything you ever want in a left tackle.
• 17:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how much you're going to get out of him.
• 17:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously he's had some in the injury issues took some time off this at the other.
• 17:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I really hope that they kind of come to a consensus and
• 17:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you want some consistency there in front of Caleb at least like you said until Aussie's back.
• 17:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I think that's why they kind of lean Braxton because Braxton does have a lot of experience in, you know, in front of Caleb.
• 17:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: He is a serviceable left tackle is he your lockdown left tackle that, you know, you want to give a max contract to you, not quite, but again, when you get to play next to Joe tuning and provided the Garrett Bradbury can fill in for Drew Dalman.
• 17:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I, you can get
• 17:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's take a quick little break and then we're going to get over to the defensive side of the ball chat, some of the story lines over there.
• 17:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot over there too.
• 17:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we'll do that real quick.
• 17:49
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• 19:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, back with Carmen Battale, we're chatting, we just went over the whole offense.
• 19:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now it's time to switch over to the defensive side of this ball.
• 19:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Some bad news throughout.
• 19:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know some bad news and bad news when it comes to the defensive side of the ball.
• 19:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to start with Kyler Gordon, because the situation is weird.
• 19:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's visible frustration coming from Ben Johnson when he talks about Kyler Gordon.
• 19:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's differences when he's talked about other injuries.
• 19:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like we've seen guys through camp when he's talking about Aluf or Burden or Kalmanangai or, you know, some of these other guys that have gotten banged up and it's a very like, you know, he's been working, well, he'll get him back, you know, that sense.
• 19:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: And with Kyler, it's kind of like, I don't know.
• 19:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
• 19:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
• 19:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't feel good to me.
• 19:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, it doesn't.
• 19:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, thoughts on that?
• 19:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, do they have to prepare for a season without?
• 20:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if so, is it, Camp Lewis, is it Jalen Jones?
• 20:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do they mix things up?
• 20:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: We saw Malik Mahamed, the rookie, and at that Nickelback a lot during this preseason game.
• 20:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, it's a little frightening.
• 20:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is and it's in reading between the lines.
• 20:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, coaches are the most understanding when it comes to injuries, at least in my experience.
• 20:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if a guy is doing everything he possibly can to get back, even if it's not happening, coaches are, they feel for the guy, right?
• 20:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're like, we see him day in and day out.
• 20:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: he's working hard and he's this that the other that has been notably absent from the conversation around Kyler Gordon and that coming down on someone for being injured and not available, which it wasn't just Ben Johnson either was Ryan Polls when in the beginning of training camp, those press conferences, there was a visible and palpable frustration from both of them and I don't think and it wasn't the way that like, I feel so bad for the kid, he's doing everything like
• 20:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's frustrating.
• 21:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: We don't like it.
• 21:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, oh, so to me, at least like reading between the lines, and I could be off-based, but it just doesn't seem like they're happy with the way that Tyler is rehabbing.
• 21:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And whether that's, you know, exclusively in the building, or if he's trying to do his own thing, or this, that the other,
• 21:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: and maybe it's not with Kyler himself.
• 21:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's with the strength staff.
• 21:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's like there's some breakdown though in this rehab process that they are very much not happy with.
• 21:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's hard to see and it sticks because essentially he should be such a crucial component to
• 21:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Dennis Allen's scheme and what he wants to do with this bears team because of injury last year was forced into playing a lot more zone coverage than they're used to or then Dennis Allen wants to he's a man coverage guy and that's not something that they played a whole lot of last year so
• 22:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: thought process going forward was like, hey, we want to play a lot more closely to what Dennis Allen wants to do, which is play more man coverage on the back end, and they made those moves to do it, and it's not working out.
• 22:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know.
• 22:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's unfortunate because I did go, I was on this high of Kobe Bryant, and you'd draft Dylan Thineman, who you knew, like it's a rookie, so maybe you have to ease into things, but Kobe helps that.
• 22:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then I think you're, you're hoping for a healthy Kyler,
• 22:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: whatever version you get a tire-exeven set I'm not sure but those it felt like at least the pieces could fit and it fits a dinosaur and that's what was exciting and the now all of a sudden you're talking about you know both those players not being there they immediately you speak of Kobe Bryant that's another one that's out seems like season if not maybe playoffs we're looking at very unfortunate because that was one of the big
• 22:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: exciting moves that they made in the soft season and he has the speed that matches what they they want on that back end and so now they go and they're trying to fix some things when it comes to replacement and Xavier Woods obviously comes and he gets banged up with back at camp.
• 23:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: But is that serviceable to you being able to have somebody to just fill in during that time or do you have concern there too?
• 23:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it depends what you get out of Dylan Thineman in his first rookie year and from what it looks like, especially in the notes out of joint practice today, I'm getting the interception this that the other.
• 23:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can go one of two ways as a rookie, right?
• 23:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can be sad that you lost Kobe Bryant and that can kind of derail your development because you don't have the veteran alongside you in that, but in the backfield to help.
• 23:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: or you step up and like I really think that Dennis Allen is probably charging Dylan Thineman with the like trying to get him going and saying hey yes this is less than ideal but this is your chance to really make a difference on this back end and to be a superstar even though you're so young and this that the other so
• 23:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: It seems like it looks like the latter from the from the effort and stuff that I mean that not that that was different from what we saw from him earlier in camp or whatever.
• 24:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I really do I like Dylan Thineman a lot.
• 24:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was I liked the pick because of the value at the time too.
• 24:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, all right, that makes sense.
• 24:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because the defensive tackle or edge player just like it wasn't there during like every time the bears were up.
• 24:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, the value just doesn't seem there and I get it.
• 24:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: But essentially what you were signaling to with this draft and then the free agent moves that you made was you were going to rely on the secondary.
• 24:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it wasn't beef up the past rush and hopefully that means that the guys in the back don't have to do as much.
• 24:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was like, no, we're going to do the opposite and beef up the secondary.
• 24:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that can work.
• 24:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: But now you have all of these injuries that you're contending with.
• 24:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you didn't do enough along the defensive line to really beef up that past rush, so it's going to be really, really tough on this secondary that hasn't played a whole lot of snaps together has some really young guys on it and I'm really trepidacious about like the whole plan at this point and I do think that there's an element of done is Alan having to scramble and figure out.
• 25:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: work around at this point and that that's hard to do at this point because you already kind of started installing what you wanted in like OTAs even like during during mandatory mini camp stuff like that like that was kind of the preview of what you wanted this team to be and now you're having to switch gears after that Kobe Bryant injury just regardless and that's hard.
• 25:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I do want to talk about past our little bit too, but I want to one positive so far for me is probably the line backing room when it comes to the defense.
• 25:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm kind of excited about it.
• 25:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think, you know, they added a lot of speed.
• 25:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: It seems like that was the trajectory they went with this step and bush and that remark of Jackson, you saw what he could do kind of towards the end of the season when the linebackers were left and you had to get thrown out there at one point in time.
• 25:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: But you saw that and it's preseason.
• 26:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, there's glimpses of it, but it does seem like they fit in
• 26:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: being able to be good coverage linebackers, being able to blitz, do some of that stuff, the sideline to sideline just because of their speed helps.
• 26:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that's probably one of the, if you're talking about the defense, the room that I'm most confident in, and I didn't even mention a TJ Edwards or no soul or any of those guys at the old Jack Sandborns back.
• 26:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: So just some of those guys that all kind of a community like, Jack Sandborns back and it's back in Chicago land.
• 26:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: So like, it gets his powers back.
• 26:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's how I was told this works.
• 26:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: But that's probably to me the one and more optimistic about at least this point in time.
• 26:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's going to be crucial in stopping the run and being able to at least kind of have that phase of your defense kind of squared away.
• 26:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I do, I have a lot of faith in TJ Edwards provided that he's healthy and then Devon Bush.
• 26:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you talk about a range you guy, I think that that was a good move in the end because of just kind of the value and all of that kind of stuff.
• 26:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: To Margot Jackson, I was talking to him last year when all those injuries happened and he's all of a sudden finding himself with the green dot, just orchestrating the entire defense calling the entire defense on the field.
• 27:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he was like, it was a responsibility that I, like he completely, he was like, I was nervous.
• 27:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was absolutely nervous, like leading up to my first game having to do it.
• 27:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: He did have some opportunity to do it in practice in this
• 27:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: it was it was something that he didn't take lightly and he did a great job at it.
• 27:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: So to get that kind of production out of a guy that I don't think anybody had heard of before, like the late last season, it makes, yeah, I'm with you.
• 27:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think if you're looking at the bright spot of this defense, it's probably that line-backer level, which is very, you know,
• 27:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, that's very apt for the Chicago Bears to have the wine bakers.
• 27:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it would be a weird.
• 27:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's funny slash weird anyways, as I'm doing these podcasts recently being like, oh, the laugh like the defense and I'm like, I'm in a world where I'm talking about the bears having a head coach and a quarterback and wider severs and offensive line.
• 28:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not able to talk about a defense it's weird.
• 28:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I'll take being able to score right now.
• 28:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: So final one before I let you go, because I do want to talk about the past rush up front.
• 28:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know Montes wet, Montes wet is a 10 12 sack guy.
• 28:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's where he lives.
• 28:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: He does a lot of other things.
• 28:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's good against the run.
• 28:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's one of those guys that you can count on.
• 28:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is he going to maybe get 16, 17 like those top guys, maybe not, but he's just one of those guys that you can definitely count on.
• 28:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And outside of that,
• 28:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's kind of banked on themselves, kind of running it back this year with a Dio and Austin Booker, you saw some flashes from Booker late when he came back healthy last year, which was, you know, four to half stacks.
• 28:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think he had like 18 pressures in that time when he came back from injury.
• 28:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: But they are banking on those two, kind of like having this resurgence.
• 28:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: They had Marcus Davenport.
• 28:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if that does anything for anybody right now in this time.
• 28:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've seen him literally with
• 28:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, I'm like, okay, yeah, we'll see if this is sure.
• 28:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, did they do, is it enough like, are you have any faith that Austin Booker can come in here that you can get anything out of Dio that the middle can be any better?
• 29:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is there any help this year or any hope, I guess I should say.
• 29:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot actually rides on how much more you can get out of Jaron Dexter on the interior.
• 29:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: The one thing where I was like, all right, the value wasn't there in the draft for an edge.
• 29:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I get that.
• 29:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: But was there something to have been done?
• 29:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we heard that the bears were in on the Vita Vega potential of all those bucks were never going to trade him.
• 29:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: But if they were, I mean, the bears made a call about Vita.
• 29:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that
• 29:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: The best way to help your past rush is really from the inside out and if you can get a guy that can get the push from the interior that really frees things up for the guys on the edge.
• 29:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: So even if you have a rotation of Austin Booker and Dio Dengbo on that side, they can still be really effective.
• 29:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that can also keep some of the double teams off of Montes, but so that he can again be a double digit guy who I mean last year it was the first double digits act player for the bear since Robert Quinn in 2017 like that was just it was it was an outrageous like stretch of not having a double digit pass rusher.
• 30:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and I want it.
• 30:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously you want that to continue with Montess way.
• 30:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think he's fully capable of doing that.
• 30:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I really, you're going to need some help from Giovanni Dexter.
• 30:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Grady Jarrett is obviously getting towards the tail end of his career.
• 30:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: But he can still be effective too.
• 30:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: You just, I need to see a little bit more of a jump from Giovanni Dexter.
• 30:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And again, I think he's capable of it.
• 30:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I really liked him coming out of college on Florida.
• 30:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I am very curious to see if he can kind of take an even bigger step forward because I think that would go a long way in helping
• 30:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and the past rush, we've talked about that so much and it's important, but also the run defense it was bad last year.
• 30:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it really much felt like every team's breakout action gentie or name whatever running back had their breakout game against the bears and they added a level galimore from the cults and they draft a Kishan Elliott.
• 30:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: So some of that, those guys to me trend more towards, hey, let's get this run defense better, which I hope because maybe if you can affect that, you know, if you can at least fix one of the parts of defense, that you like people can expose you everywhere.
• 31:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and especially if you have the support of those linebackers in the middle level like if you can shut down the run
• 31:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: At least I like be average at it, you know, just be average.
• 31:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, and that's the thing, the biggest thing and the biggest optimistic take for, and I think this is like what mean and I landed on two, where was just like, the biggest optimistic take for the bears is essentially that the defense can tread water.
• 31:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then the offense goes out in scores, 30 points of game, and so you don't need a top 10 defense.
• 31:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: You don't need a top 12 defense, which to your point from earlier,
• 31:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not used saying that in Chicago.
• 31:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not used to seeing that in Chicago.
• 31:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, what do you mean our defense isn't top 12?
• 31:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: What do you mean?
• 31:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that that's kind of going forward, especially with all of the defensive injuries like Ben Johnson is just kind of like
• 31:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I was already going like good as it goes score 30 points again, but now I really have to go score 30 points again, and I don't know what that means when it comes to the postseason because I really am a big believer in having to be a very complete team to have postseason success, but I think it can get you there.
• 32:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 32:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 32:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: We will see.
• 32:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of to be determined on the defensive side of the ball.
• 32:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's the best.
• 32:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 32:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it right now.
• 32:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 32:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: A little bit of a comment.
• 32:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: I really appreciate your time.
• 32:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: What do you have coming on this week?
• 32:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know Saturday.
• 32:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: You'll be on air Saturday.
• 32:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I will be on air Saturday.
• 32:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I will actually write after this.
• 32:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I am headed down to the score studios.
• 32:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: 104.3 and 670 the score in Chicago.
• 32:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm filling in four mats.
• 32:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Big ol alongside Lawrence Holmes today and tomorrow.
• 32:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you can check me out on score and I will be on the score a little bit more.
• 32:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: uh... coming up so i'll a little bit more on that later but you can just follow me on car maybe and that's where all my stuff was information we love that love you on the score and uh... thanks for your time and have a good rest of your week thank you see you guys later