Latest / OCCULTINARIUM / AmeLynn's Corner of Chaos - BEP 2 - Navigating Narcissism

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AmeLynn's Corner of Chaos - BEP 2 - Navigating Narcissism · OCCULTINARIUM

• Lynn: You left me bewildered in your storm when that smile which you had worn affectionately turned to dust and crumbled under the weight of rust. I had trusted you as you had me, yet you had cut me so willfully with a knife I never saw disguised as the smallest straw veered with precision and the fastest decision, a thunderclap, a small misstep. And I fell under your spell. Welcome to tonight's episode AmeLynn's Corner So that was an intro. Amelie: That was a beautiful intro and by the way I was also the first... well, not yet, but I don't know if I was the first one to hear it but I heard it for the first time just like everyone else. Lynn: That's true. You were actually the first one to hear it. mean, there were people who have read it before, so they might have heard it with their own voice as things like that go. But no, that's true. First ⁓ read to other people. First time appreciated with ears. Yes. So. ⁓ But could use this. This might be a. Amelie: Better get used to this. Lynn: fast installation of our little corner of chaos, although still chaotic. A little bit of order is in order, as you will. So this was one of my poems. I can plug myself. ⁓ "Lynn Peyo writes" Blue Sky ⁓ and on Anyway, we were intending to talk about, well, starting with about toxic people, narcissists. We kind of started talking about it last time. then we were like, we could dedicate an entire episode on this. Or, know, just chatting about stuff, right? ⁓ Amelie: Yeah, that is a very big topic and it's a very personal topic as well. Lynn: Yeah. Amelie: but it's ever so interesting. Lynn: Yeah, have you, I mean, can just start because it's personal. Have you been in contact with Amelie? ⁓ How that... ⁓ Amelie: So this is not a topic that we've discussed before, so this is the really interesting part of it all, the fact that we have not discussed any of these kind of things before. just as the listeners, things will unfold for us as well. This is not planned or anything like this. chaos. why it's just... Lynn: No. No chaos. Yeah. ⁓ Amelie: unfolding it's ⁓ organic, know. But I assume that you had your fair of the toxic people. ⁓ Lynn: You're bringing it back to me. Yeah, I see you're bouncing the ball Amelie: I was just thinking maybe there was a toxic person that spurred on to write the words that you read. A little bit. Lynn: Hmm. No, no. So not in that case. That was not really like when I wrote that was not about a toxic or not about a person that I find toxic. I just chose words ambiguously as I like doing so it could be interpreted like that. I mean, mostly. I mean, it's not very I mean, it's probably not very pleasant what I wrote about. So, yeah. Amelie: Mmm. Lynn: But I mean, as with everything, you kind of hook on things that you have experienced or feelings that you have been through. have, yes, I've I wouldn't say I've had enough fair share. It's not like I've been only like with toxic and, ⁓ one enough or two, you know, and then I'm like, no, thank you. Not anymore. ⁓ But had. Amelie: Yeah. Lynn: mean, ⁓ also it's not just I mean, it's friendships also, right? It can be any kind of person. You could have like a toxic relationship ⁓ work and all that. ⁓ was ⁓ just thinking about like the most not the most. But one of like one of my relationships, one of my exes, I think really he was a narcissist and that seeing that unfold or or how that, you know, went from I mean, you have the love bombing in the beginning, right? Like it is. And back then, I mean, I just I heard about narcissists and stuff, but it wasn't obvious to me because I hadn't been exposed to it. I mean, I was, you know, I was smart, right? I mean, I saw that he was doing things that weren't OK. And at that point, I was old enough in my life. I was in my mid 20s. ⁓ ⁓ was old enough to be like, I'm liking this. And I was like, no, I'm out. ⁓ I wasn't falling into the trap in itself. just, got out before or when all the red flags came, I was like, no, thank you. ⁓ it was like, it was a really interesting development really. And like looking back on it, it's like, it's so obvious or not, not really. I mean, he was like a really, a really smart man, ⁓ very intelligent. And I from the moment I got to know him, already there, I his personality type was the kind that Amelie: Yeah. Lynn: He would toy with people and he was proud of it. Like in his work or you know, would get, like, I mean, he was, I even remember what he was doing. It was kind of a big, animal somewhere in a big animal corporation. But when he would get emails and if people were like, obviously like, offer lesser intelligence than him, he would often just like toy with them and he would have so much fun. ⁓ And... That was, you know, like when you're on his good side, obviously, that is kind of like, okay, or ⁓ funny, funny, but you're like, okay, this is interesting way of going about things, you know, being like that. And his intelligence obviously was very, ⁓ that attractive and he was attracted to my intelligence, right? So we had this kind of thing going on. So in the beginning, he was very... ⁓ Storytime with Lynn Okay, here we go. I hope we get a storytime with Amelie after as well. like, yeah, in the beginning, he was very, very and very much like he wanted give me like everything, you know, like, what do you this and that and this and that. And he came to he was from the US and he came over to to Europe to visit me. And we went on this whole trip together like also just off of the head. Like I was just like, you know, I've not been to London in a while. You know, I just, could go to London. He's like, yeah, let's do it. And then I was like, you know, I've not been to Paris in a while either. And he's like, sure, we can go to both. And I'm like, what the fuck? What the fuck? It was, it was great. No, it was actually really great. It was, it was great. I mean, it was the beginning, right? So really adventurous, really great. Lots of laughs, fun stuff. And then. Amelie: Sounds great, let's go! Lynn: And I came over to the US a few times and the first things or one of the things that already kind of triggered a little bit of a flag was when he one of the first things he said was just like a little innocent thing. Like as long as you are happy, I'm happy. And in the beginning, just struck. Yeah, I mean, OK, fine. you know, it comes back later to bite me in the ass or him. But the first things that were felt like, okay, this is not cool. It's like when he was like really he had children, right? So he had been married and that wasn't good. But he had two children. One of them was just a few years younger than me. But yeah, a thing. And he was about like he didn't want any, you know, markings on his body or he didn't want anything to be like obvious that he was with somebody. Yeah. Which I'm like, OK, fine. no worries, but then when he brought me over to the US, we would not stay at his house. He had a hotel close by and then he would go like from hotel to his home and to the hotel and then it'd be like things like, you know, ⁓ I really, you know, okay, so do we have to do like a not a trigger warning because I mean trigger warning narcissists by like, this is PG what's going to be PG. 16, I don't know. It's disclaimer. I mean, we're adults here. he was like, it's not going to be very saucy. I'm sorry. ⁓ I'm just saying. And he was like, you know, I want you like I want you in my bed, not like in the hotel bed. I'm like, well, OK, sure. And then we went to his house, but then he stopped the car in front of the house was like, just wait here. I'm going to see. Amelie: Hehehehe, disclaimer. Lynn: what the kids are up to, like his teenage kid and his like 20 something year old daughter. And he was like, okay, like clear, we can go in. And I was like, are you like sneaking around with me in front of you, like, or behind the backs of your kids? Like, that's not okay. Like how serious are you about this relationship? It doesn't seem very serious to me if you're like hiding me from your kids, right? So there was already like this kind of conversate or this, you know, like, kind of icky feeling. And I guess he thought about it. And then the next day he introduced me to his kids and that was a little weird slash awkward. But, you know, it was it was OK. But, you know, that was one of the first things where just, you know, it was just like a little off. And then there were starting to be like these things when There was something when I was not 100 % happy about something, like for example that, I was not very happy about the sneaking around. And then I would say, this is not okay. So when I was not 100 % happy, he got really, like he turned like almost 180. Like he got really not necessarily mean, but very cold, like very hard. He was like, at some point he started to drink again and he had like a problem with alcohol before. So he was like, I remember like one time we actually had like a fight and then was like drinking heavily and he was a completely different person. ⁓ he tried to, I remember he tried to manipulate the fuck out of me. ⁓ I was just too, you know, I saw like through ⁓ manipulation techniques. I was just like, no, it's not gonna, you know, it didn't work on me. You know, I was just like giving him the mirror all the time. ⁓ And hated that, like he hated getting it back. Amelie: they hate that. That triggers them so much. Lynn: He was not used. I hate that. Yeah, so he was very triggered. was just like, know, ⁓ mean, it work on me. You're the one like, he's the one who's like angry and foaming. And I'm just like very matter of fact, like, no, this, ⁓ you I don't the details of the It's ⁓ very, very many ago, right? But yeah, that didn't go so well. And I think that was after that, I came back to Europe and And then suddenly he to try and be very... He started to be quite possessive, like being happy proud of me or showing me off to his friends or whatnot. He started to be very possessive. Suddenly ⁓ tried implement rules like, you need to check in with me every five hours at least or something. unless you're sleeping, like stuff like that. I remember I was, my friend came over for a visit ⁓ and know, once best friend is here, like ⁓ nothing matters. And we went to, yeah, ⁓ and went to the spa And that's kind of like a, you know, you leave your mobile phone behind and everything and it's just like five hours of like just spa-ing and amazing. No, no contact the outside world. Amelie: Exactly. Lynn: So we had an amazing time. Five or six hours later, we are on our way back. I take my phone out. I have like, I don't know, 20 messages. getting ⁓ and more angry. And I'm like, what happened in my absence? Yeah. And then it was so comical because he was like, he completely spun out of control. And he like, I don't know ⁓ if you're an orgy or something. And I'm like, I told you. I was going to the spa with my best friend. he was just like going like he had so much jealousy and so much anxiety about the sexual aspects of things. And it really came out and you just making like, how does one and the other thing connect? I'm with my best friend. We're going to a spa. Yes, there's like naked skin ⁓ a spa, but it's like ⁓ having an orgy. yeah, and that's where he got like really crazy about this. No, you have to check in with me, like so and so many hours. And I was like, you know, I don't like it, but I'm gonna make a compromise. ⁓ I can try that for a while. Yeah, and that didn't last long. ⁓ relationship I think was over a few months after that, but just got crazy. I'm like, wow. ⁓ Amelie: made it harder because you were not in the same country so he kind of didn't feel like he had the you know he just control you as such ⁓ then I'm also thinking ⁓ this is something that he would do because normally people think that other people are the way because of someone that they maybe something that they're themselves experienced with someone else ⁓ ⁓ Lynn: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Amelie: that's something that would do themselves. Lynn: Yeah, we project, we project. Yeah, and I know this because I mean, I know that he did do not not orgies, but he did go or had other women like without telling me like I was we had an open relationship and I was fine with it. I was just like for me, like my rule was that, you know, and tell me about it if you want to go with somebody else, you know, and just I would like to know. And he did. I think it happened twice. He never did and he only did it when he was butthurt about something. And then he would tell me like a ⁓ few weeks after and put it like in there like as a mean to try to hurt me. so I... ⁓ he kept it in the bank. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And obviously that was to me, there was a trust breach of, going like for the say like promising or saying like, yeah, yeah, we're talking about it and we're going to be open about everything. Amelie: He kept it in the bank for the good occasions. Lynn: And then he just kept stuff like that closed and that was also like to me, he's like, mm, dude. Amelie: Mm. It was also a way of saying, you know, like, well, we have an open relationship, so it's not on your business kind of a thing, you know, which, you know, it's, yeah, it's bad. Yeah, it's no, it's, there's no, no excuse really. Lynn: Yeah, but after being like, we're gonna talk about it. Yeah. I think it was his way also to kind of gain control that he thought he didn't have because choosing not to tell me something or choosing to do things that I don't know about that possibly, you know, in his head might hurt me. he knew it was important to me that we have an ⁓ communication about things. way he would be able to control things and I was not very controllable otherwise. So, you know, it's like... Yeah. ⁓ ⁓ Amelie: At least he knew that would trigger you to ⁓ reaction. Lynn: Yeah, I got a reaction, but I mean in the end, I mean it bit his ass because I wasn't the kind of person who was like, you know, I'll keep forgiving you forever and you know, I was just like, I'm done ⁓ some point, you know, I'm pretty forgiving, but at some point I'm just like, man, Amelie: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no. that's bloody shit, isn't it? Lynn: Yeah, it was, but it was also interesting. I mean, at least, you know, I was safe, you know, it could have been situations that I wasn't, although I did have a really icky situation with him. in general, was not, I didn't feel like threatened or anything. It was just, you know. So I in a way lucky and I could observe this whole, well, phenomena of how something can just turn from Amelie: Yeah. Lynn: Yeah, from like A to not even skipping B and C, you know, just going straight to... Yeah, just the whole alphabet and the... it's... I a lot. I learned lot. So that was actually really... In the end, grateful for it, you know. It was a great... mean, we did have a great time while we had a great time and I got to see a lot of places I wouldn't have been able to see. So, you know, there lot of good experiences, but it's just... Amelie: A to Z. Yeah, I think being... Yeah, no. a lot of things like that, when they happen to you, it really is a learning curve and that's like, it's like the harshness ⁓ you have things that are not pleasant happening to you. While in this situation, when you are in the midst of it, it's really difficult. But when you think about it afterwards, once you come out of it, you ⁓ so much, much more than... Lynn: It wasn't meant to be. Mm. Mm. Amelie: if it was just you know, or good, or mediocre, don't know, ⁓ or ⁓ it of like teaches you ⁓ so more. But it's sad in way that you have to go through something like this, but I guess that's part of life. I know. I'm kind of telling this myself as well. ⁓ Lynn: Mm. Mm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. and it's part of life. mean, as long like, hmm. Yeah. I mean, it's all good. Like it's really, it was a good lesson. You can often say that after something that is uncomfortable is over, but I mean, without the discomfort, we, you know, I don't think we'd grow as much or at all. ⁓ I know. I just, you know, like sometimes when I think about ⁓ like things that happened in the past that were difficult for me, I'm thinking about how it would be if it happened to me now. mean now I would probably just be like no right from the start from the first red flag or orange flag and be like weird. just because also from the from occult like from the spiritual or magical path or whatnot you know because obviously there's happened a lot for me then as well and I experience things in a different way so I ⁓ I'm like like what ⁓ how would be now? Amelie: Yeah. Lynn: I think now I would just be like, he would say one word and then somebody else would just be like, no, you know what, Lynn, this is not for you. And I'm like, okay, probably. But you know, I don't know. Amelie: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's interesting. It's interesting when you say that as well because like this whole, when you have this ⁓ or whatever, also I like, I don't know if you're similar, I ⁓ think you might a bit similar like me, I just feel like when someone is a little bit different or acts differently, find it is almost like endearing because it's like it's different and then you a lot of things slide because ⁓ you you accept that someone is because as we are slightly weird like well other people can be a bit strange or weird or have like different ⁓ you and then you kind of let a lot of things slide and it takes a while to kind of like understand like ⁓ this is actually maybe not Lynn: Yeah, or... ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Amelie: nice or this is not a good thing or this is strange or this should not be happening. Lynn: Mm. Mm. it's difficult, right? Because it's so tantalizing. For me, mean, I mean, me, it's an attraction point if somebody is ⁓ a strange or weird, like I'm not attracted to normal people at all. So that's, ⁓ but then have to, you know, a lot of the weird people. apparently also are not so great people. So it's like, where are the great weird ⁓ Where are the good ones? The ones that are not toxic, you know? I mean, they exist for sure, but it's like lot of obviously, ⁓ yeah, you don't know at the beginning, like you said, and then you're very forgiving because you're just like, this person seems weird and I love it. And then, you know, and then sometimes you get lucky and it's a really good weird that really vibes with you. And then sometimes it's... Amelie: No. Yeah. Yeah. Lynn: too much trauma that doesn't actually go well with your own trauma or something. I have that too, unfortunately. So like, know, yeah, gosh, it's a puzzle. It's like puzzle piece. It's really difficult sometimes. ⁓ Amelie: Yeah, but also I think when you're a good listener as well, people do, they do see, when they do see that you're a good listener and when people have the narcissistic traits, they kind of latch onto you because you're listening to them and you're trying to understand them and help them and ⁓ ⁓ problem solving that I was talking about as well ⁓ And it's like Lynn: Mm. Mm. Mm. Amelie: They see the goodness in you and they just exploit it. little by little and you don't even realize that this is not okay or that they do come and say that they... like a scenario of like they are nice but then they flip like he did. They'll kind of flip because I mean alcohol is quite common but maybe they flip because of something but then they come back and they want to kind of... Lynn: ⁓ Yeah. Hmm. Mm. Amelie: apologize but they would never apologize but they always have a thing like ⁓ yeah but you know I was drunk I'm so sorry because I was drunk they sorry because I was drunk not because they said something or they acted in a weird way it's because they done something or like ⁓ you know I didn't like the place or I didn't sleep well or there's always an excuse there's always something else that makes them act like that but it's never Lynn: Yeah, yeah, some weird, yeah. Hmm. Hmm. Mm. Amelie: you know, sorry I was wrong, that was, you know, it's always because of something. Which I find also, like, they don't take accountability for what they've done because they don't care, really. Yeah. Lynn: No, because they're perfect. Yeah. Also that, yeah. And they're perfect to themselves. Right. That's like also disclaimer. We are not like therapists or anything anywhere. We're just talking about our experience. All right. But what about like, yeah. What about like you? Do you have any specific experiences that you would like to share? Amelie: Yeah, yeah. But to be honest, you know I could. I'm gonna print myself one. No. Yeah, you know what, I've been through my fair share of crazy people or toxic people or narcissistic people. think I've been working through a lot of things ⁓ past few years. But I did have the first person that was very difficult with me was my dad, ⁓ my dad, because he was an alcoholic and... ⁓ Lynn: Mm. Amelie: He was very, very nice to me when I was a kid when he wanted to, but then he also took me when I was a years old to see his friends in a pub, you know, let me play outside. he was like, obviously I was a kid. didn't really like, you know, but it's, I had like, I had a very weird childhood, probably nothing to, you know. Lynn: Great parenting. Amelie: strive for but I say that, you know, I don't to hear any sob stories or anything like that. ⁓ So think like he was, and I just because the way he was, later on in I think I excused that kind behaviour more because I was used to ⁓ it since I was kid because that was like normal for me and I think it's just so embedded in you. Lynn: Right. Amelie: that certain things, normal, that's not strange, but actually when you think about it, this is ⁓ normal, this is not okay. Because my grandfather was also kind of like that. My he became much better when he got older, he completely changed. But he get ⁓ quite, you it was this whole drinking thing, think ⁓ alcohol does lot, but... Lynn: Hmm. Yeah. Amelie: But I think kind of ⁓ it more difficult for me later with relationships and friends because ⁓ I've been forgiving people ⁓ and try to when did this happen? Maybe like... must have been like five years ago or so. I broke up with my then boyfriend for a while and I think ⁓ been other as well in between with friends and stuff that's been happening but I think this was like my trigger point because he was very similar to my dad and a lot of things happened that were very similar ⁓ and ⁓ was... I don't know, was very like, it was, he had all these of like, you know, I'm good. And then ⁓ was really like super and then very apologetic like, you know, I think I, know, don't like ⁓ psychologically, I might be well. I think maybe I need to see a therapist and stuff. ⁓ But the thing like, never happened. Lynn: Mm. Right, yeah. ⁓ Amelie: It was always the same, it was always going around the same circle. And I did, I think like I did, I was like way too patient. And I think once that ended, it just ended for good. And I had a whole year because it was during the lockdown, I had a whole year of just being by myself as well. And I was like in... Lynn: Hmm. Amelie: in the flat that I always wanted to live in the area and I was just like, okay, I'm doing things for myself now and I think I realized so many things and I kind of then, not even during the time, but afterwards I connected this with my childhood and certain like trigger points and things and That was just really eye-opening for me and I thought like, why? That's another thing, you feel so stupid afterwards because you're like, why did I do this? Why did I, like how, like why didn't I say it? It's like you question yourself and you feel really stupid but at the same time, you're like, was trying to be there for someone, you know, and you could see that like, they some potential, you you have potential. Lynn: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Hmm. Amelie: Because the end of the day the person is not ⁓ bad, they're also good, but there's way you can get rid of that cycle. I really don't think so. I think it's very difficult to get rid of that cycle and it's going ⁓ slap you so many times if you don't learn to see these kind of triggers. I also had friends. you know, one that just completely made it like a turn to like the worst and the thing is like I have this amazing aquarian trait of when I'm done, I'm done. I'm like, I give, I'm very much like three, like I have like the three, there's three strikes. I tolerate probably too much. I'm very forgiving, but I like, there are things that I never forget. I might not be bringing them up all the time or like, but I see a register. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. cough Mm. Mm. Amelie: once, once I can feel it, like once I'm done, I'm super done and there's no going back. There's no going back. Yeah. Lynn: And that feels very taurian too though, it's like, cause we have this thing of like bottling up stuff and like noticing everything and forgetting almost nothing, almost like an elephant brain. And then, but not necessarily saying anything and used like for Taurus, very like that they stay so calm. And then suddenly it's just like something happens and it's like the last straw and then you just explode and people have never seen. Taurus this angry in their life and it's really scary and you know everything comes out and ⁓ yeah like this is... Amelie: Yeah. I'm more like a quiet exit. I think with me it's the opposite. If get angry and I get ⁓ and angry then you can salvage it. But if I get like... okay and walk away in silence then you'll probably not see me again. ⁓ just like okay I'm done, done. And sometimes people don't know why. Lynn: Right, right. Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Yeah... I can't explain it! Use the list! ⁓ god... Amelie: And then I can be like, well, if you want me to, I can list all the things, but it's not going to like... I can list them all for you, I can explain myself, but it's not going to change anything. It's not going to change anything because at that point, like I'm just, done. can talk to me, I'll be civil, whatever, but we are not going to be friends. It's just like... ⁓ don't call me if you're, you know, in a pinch because I, no. I'll politely go like, sorry, not sorry, bye. I'm very much so. I think ⁓ so many chances. So once they're like used up, then ⁓ should I give more time? It's just, ⁓ spent too much time, too much time. Lynn: Yeah, you'll just hang up. Yeah. Mm. Mm. Yeah, I mean, if the bottle is empty, like you cannot shake out another drop of water the well if the well is empty. ⁓ ⁓ Amelie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the funny thing is, know, of these people actually that I have been like silently just dropped because they've been just so like, ⁓ always a time, you know, after a few months or even a year or like, they're always somehow seem to either find you on social media and try to talk to you. ⁓ Lynn: You Mm. Mm. Amelie: or message you or email or ⁓ it's almost like, I'm so sorry. I know it was my fault. I sorted out now, you know, and they kind of want to like, ⁓ why can't we just like meet up and catch up or something? And it's just like, ⁓ good for You sorted yourself out. Lynn: Hmm. Yeah, I mean good for them. Yeah, good for them. Yeah. Yeah. Amelie: This means I've done something. This is also a thing, you know. You know that even it feels wrong to say certain things at the moment, but if you really know that it's going to help someone, it probably will, but it might take a while. many times it does. ⁓ ⁓ when that happens, I'm like, then my job here is done if you helped yourself. You actually don't need me. Lynn: Hmm. Amelie: Now it's just you feel bad or something but like it's it's like done. I'm just over over it. Lynn: It's like the I told you so again ⁓ Amelie: Yeah, but is it also when you're a person that is comfortable with being by yourself, it's not as daunting, I think, to be like, no, I'm good. Because a lot of people, they keep friends with people that shouldn't be friends with, have their own relationships that should not be in. Lynn: Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Amelie: just because they're so afraid of being alone. And I think a lot of people probably are. Lynn: Mm, yeah. I think so too. Yeah. I mean, I mean, you see that like evidently or, know, in real life or also like in media or whatnot, but people who are just with somebody else because otherwise, you know, alone sucks. And I feel like it's probably sometimes like for people like us who are a little bit or very weird, it often feels like a curse of being like alone so much. And ⁓ sometimes you really get the bright side of it or the really good side of it is that because you're alone with yourself so much, you can stand yourself ⁓ you you learn to because I mean, there's some people who are alone and they hate themselves. I don't know how that works. ⁓ I don't know. It sounds crazy. like, yeah, it must be really tough. But I mean, I ⁓ think we're ⁓ only children, right? You don't have any siblings either. Yeah. Amelie: don't know how you can do that really. ⁓ Yeah, no. Lynn: And then mom was a single mom also and the in her life have like never taken responsibility. I felt like there had to be like a father figure. So I was always just like a single mom. And then she obviously was working a lot and stuff. So I was a lot by myself and I enjoyed my childhood a lot. And it was so much with imagination and books and, you know, making adventures outside. And I love that. And I mean, I wasn't really that alone alone as children because I as a child because I had friends, but there was a lot of time I really just spent by myself and I enjoyed that time. been since I was a child, ⁓ you know, I've been very much used to being that, you know, loner and then, you know, going into school, I was obviously like the weirdo because of several reasons and that being one. Right. But it yeah, yeah. If you just. Yeah, learn to be comfortable with yourself from an early age. And as an only child, I think you, especially if it's not all parents are present either, you have to learn that. And obviously there's probably lot of trauma with that, know, but there's good sides to it. Amelie: Yeah, I think it was like three years ago, maybe two years ago, something like that. ⁓ don't know how it came about, but I found this book on complex ⁓ stress disorder, ⁓ And I was reading this book and I literally like, I was so shocked. Lynn: Ahem. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Amelie: and I just started crying and I was like, ⁓ my God, that this is probably what's wrong with me. And it was, it's very strange to, it's like, never, I never seen myself have any kind of. Lynn: Yeah. Hmm. Amelie: mental disorders or I don't know. It's so common now with all these. I used to have flatmates ages ago and her brother was autistic and she used to always say to me, know, Amelie, when women are autistic, it's not like men, it's very different. And then suddenly, I think you should do a test. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Amelie: and I was like I'm not autistic come on like I'm not because like I thought like you have to be like really good at something and like you know like the typical I'm not I have she did some kind of test and I was like some kind of in the borderline but I'm still kind of like I don't like personally I don't I don't really get it and I don't think I really understand why you have to label these things because I find a lot of people that have these little quirks I find them it's just Lynn: Mm. You Hmm. Amelie: quirky. Like, I think a lot of autistic people are amazing because they focus in into one subject so deeply and they know so much and I'm thinking like ⁓ is that like a mental disorder? ⁓ cruel. ⁓ you know, it's ⁓ social norms. So when I kind of like read that book, it was very difficult for me to see myself. like maybe Lynn: Mm. Mm. Mm. Amelie: could be it. Like I... it was so many things and like the the triggers and things that happened to me when when things happen when you just don't understand why you act a certain way because there are certain things that could just trigger me and it could just like I could go from like I'm fine to like I need to get out of here right now because I just need to get out of here. It was so weird. I have not Lynn: Hmm. Mm. Amelie: been diagnosed by anyone. It would be definitely interesting to talk to a therapist. And I remember when I was very, very young, I used to have a boyfriend, it was a long time ago. And he used to be like, oh, I think you're really depressed. And he took me and forced me to go to a therapist. Lynn: Yeah. Hmm Amelie: And I kid you not, all the questions they asked, I knew exactly how to answer and they were like, there's nothing wrong with you because that's how I am. I would never, I would never be like, well, don't feel sorry about me. I can handle myself. Like I can handle myself, whatever. And so they, there's nothing wrong with you. But I, it was like a play for me. I just, I thought it was really weird. But I think at that time I was living in Sweden as well. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Amelie: And know a lot of people ⁓ that Sweden is a great country. just, got me so depressed. When I moved to London, was, it's the ⁓ kind of people I find, they're quite cold. I don't know if it's like this in Norway as well, ⁓ but it very difficult to, ⁓ when you friends, it's more like acquaintances. Lynn: Mm. Amelie: They don't, I don't, it's very difficult to get close to people. It's a scandi thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I had few friends that were like, cause we used to do poetry together. So I studied, I studied in Gothenburg. And during that time it was great cause I had friends in school and I had few friends. But when I, when I kind of, Lynn: ⁓ That's a Scandic thing. Yeah, it's a Scandic thing. difficult. Yeah, it's difficult. Yeah. ⁓ it's very particular. Yeah. a very particular thing. Yeah. Amelie: Yeah, because I moved to Paris and then I moved back to Sweden again. I think because I went... I moved so much. When I came back, a lot of them... ⁓ Yeah, just all over. This ⁓ is I meant with I lived so many different lives. It's literally like, ⁓ feel like different person in each timeline. It's like... Lynn: Yeah, we need a timeline at some point. Mmm. Mmm. Hmm. Amelie: different lives. It's not like my me is just different person. Lynn: No, but no, no, no. But I it's true, though. mean, I've I've not been through that many as you are thing, but I I've lived in different countries as well. And it's like every time you have like this chance or this possibility to reinvent yourself or become somebody else. And I think the first time I that, I did almost like when I realized this, I did it almost on purpose because that was when I was like 16. And I was like, ⁓ it school I was an outcast, was at the weirdo, was like the one people would throw stuff at, know, I was like bullied all the time. I turned 16, I went to another country and suddenly people thought, you know, I was new there, right? But, and I was still looking the same as I did there, you know, like, but I was like suddenly people like... thought I was cool and people wanted to hang out with me and not everybody right but they're cool the weird cool weird people wanted to hang out with me and I was just suddenly hey I can just... I'm just somebody completely else now yeah so I was really yeah that's a cool experience to go through ⁓ Amelie: Yeah. Yeah, it's... Yeah, it really is. And you just do, like you do reinvent yourself, specifically when you're younger. You know what, I was thinking about that as well before we just started to like, before we did the podcast. And in my head, I was like, Amelie, this is your time to like go back to a little bit the person you were before that you thought was more fun. Lynn: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Amelie: and just reinvent yourself and just start this whole new thing but then I thought to myself, you've done it so many times, why are you doing it again? You're a little bit too old for that. So I'm like, you know what, scrap it, I'm just going to do something new and not reinvent myself. Lynn: Right. Mm-hmm. Right, okay, that should be fine to do that as well. Amelie: like, ⁓ ⁓ I think ⁓ lockdown just made me like not do things to my hair and to my face as much as I used to before because I just hardly go out. But obviously I thought to myself, but you're going to be on camera. So why don't you represent yourself the way you want to be represented? But then I'm like, you know what? I also don't want to have a mask. I want to ⁓ you know, as Lynn: Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Amelie: Yeah, just want to be authentic. know, can like go on camera with like ⁓ makeup and perfect hair and like do your hair and makeup before ⁓ show like for two hours or something. But I just don't, I don't feel I need to. ⁓ to do random like little photo shoots and stuff. ⁓ fun. But it's like atmospheric thing. This is more like authentic talking. So like, no. ⁓ Lynn: Mm. Mm. Mm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No. Amelie: You know, I'm not going to reinvent my self now, but I know what you mean. Lynn: No. But you know, also like, I think maybe when you get older, like when you want or if you're like thinking about reinventing yourself, you have so many more spare parts that you'd have to exchange than you're young. ⁓ I it takes a little more. ⁓ Maybe. Amelie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and you just get tired more. I don't know. I just feel like... Lynn: ⁓ yeah, and your back hurts all the time guys. The knees are creaking. Amelie: No, I don't know, it's just like, I feel like the time that you kind of like, do you want to spend like an hour in front of the mirror and do my hair and stuff to be like perfect? Or do you want to spend like maybe 20 minutes to like brush my hair, put on some lipstick and maybe the next 40 minutes to, I don't know, do something else? Like, I don't know, whatever, whatever you want, I mean. Lynn: Mm. There's just so many things, yeah. ⁓ Amelie: draw some ideas for something, know, edit something. You can do so many more productive things with that time. Lynn: Seriously, I like when you're like super young you waste so much time like on Bullshit, and then you just a little older and it's like why did I waste my time? And I'm like more like I'm not I don't want to waste my time that much anymore You know I'm like you know I'm barely on social media even you know like I go through that I don't get notifications from them, so I'm just like now I want to go on Amelie: Yes. Neither do I. Lynn: Yeah, this is good when you're actually doing something that requires you to use social media, right? Like this, but it's like, you know, I on my private account, you know, my own Instagram, you know, I go on there, like when I feel it for it, I like, because I've taken some pictures and I'm posting them to my story or something. And I was like, ⁓ there's like six chats, you know, like maybe I'll catch up or maybe not, you know, but, know, yeah, I prefer. Amelie: Yeah Yeah, I'm very bad as well. I'm very, bad at replying to messages. And I think I've got this from numerous of people, you know, I talked, I tried to like reply and talk to them. people do send me really interesting things. They send me a lot of things. ⁓ ⁓ ⁓ my of thought is Lynn: Hmm. Yeah, right. Amelie: I don't want to reply to them in a rushed way. I want to actually go through the messages and I want to, you know, reply with intention. I don't know. I just want to reply with intention. So what I do, I'm just like, I'm going to save these messages. I'm going to savor, savor these messages. And when I have more than like 15 minutes, I'm going to read them and reply with a proper reply. Lynn: You are so on the spectrum, Amelie. No, no. Yep. Amelie: And this makes you accumulate a lot of messages because you never find that like perfect, beautiful time to like, that it just never happens. Lynn: No. And meanwhile, in the life of the other person, you just don't reply to the messages. So then even when it's like a thing, when you like can be left on read, you know, and they're like, why did she read? And why did she not reply? And then they're like, she hates me. You know, so that can, if you have a very, yeah, if you have a different personality, you know, somebody who needs, who needs like the connection and the attention and that can go. Amelie: Yes. Yeah, yeah I had that. Lynn: really bad, know, we send a really like, ⁓ my god, she hates me. I thought she was my friend. then, like, not as a joke, even like they really feel really, really bad. And I have friends like that. And then for them, it's like, you know, if you just say like, an okay, or like, I've read it or just like, I can't reply now. This means so much to me. I'm like, all right, let's do that instead. Because yeah. Amelie: That's basically my mother. She messages me quite often and sometimes I just don't message her back because I want to message with something more. And then she she gets, stresses because she's like, ⁓ my, why, you must be depressed. You must be sad. You know, and then I have to be like, no, ⁓ but I actually, ⁓ there's, it's funny. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Amelie: I'm sure she's going to listen to the podcast, which makes it even more interesting. no, my mom, my mom does actually not understand English super well, but there is a, there is a someone that I got to know online through the TMA group. ⁓ and I know that she'll, she'll probably listen to the podcast. ⁓ So it's, it very interesting. ⁓ I have thing happen to me a few times, but ⁓ let's ⁓ the, Lynn: All the moms! Mm-hmm. Amelie: take her as like an example. because we started the Discord on the TMA Discord and there's another group that I am ⁓ part of on Discord that's also another, probably can talk about it later but it's a big thing as well. ⁓ But private me and we started talking about different decks and things and She's very very sweet and she messages, she messaged me a lot and she's very like intuitive, she loves tarot and she's very into like all those like spiritual things and stuff what happened was like with the other group it just there were certain things that did not sit right with me ⁓ so just did not open Discord at all. Didn't open and then maybe like a few weeks after I opened Discord. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Amelie: And there was like messages from her like, why don't you reply blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, and I was like, ⁓ my God, like I just didn't realize that it would be, don't know when you just talking about random things with someone, I just didn't realize like I was important because I don't see myself as important. So I did explain like, I don't really ⁓ on Discord very often because of this, you know, what happened. So don't really go very often. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Amelie: but I do have Instagram if you want to message me there I'll probably check them more often. So we were basically like following each other on Instagram and stuff. And this has happened so many times to me with Instagram because I also don't get notifications and there are some times when I just I can't go online because I see so many posts that are just make me feel really sick really to be honest because you get all these ads and suggested things. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Mm. Amelie: And sometimes I just can't handle it. So I'm not on Instagram for like a week, sometimes two. And the amount of times she says like, have to unfollow you. She unfollows me. She follows me again when I come back, she unfollows me. I I was like, ⁓ this is so annoying. But then in my head, I was like, you know what? This is a really, really good learning curve for both me and her because ⁓ Lynn: Mm. Hmm. Amelie: I'm very straightforward and I was very straightforward and I said, I don't think this is a very healthy behavior ⁓ someone doesn't reply to you for a few days, you unfollow them because you think that they feel poorly about you or they don't like you anymore. I'm like, I don't think it's very healthy for you. ⁓ And thought to myself, ⁓ she you Lynn: Hmm. Mm. Hmm. Amelie: lashes out on me and hate me even more for being so straightforward or you know she'll think about it you know and and she took it really well and she's like you know what I am a kind of I'm a very clingy person I am a clingy person I like talking to you because I don't really have anyone to talk to about spirituality things like this it just ⁓ a you know I like because you understand like that realm of things and I was okay Lynn: Mm. She falls in love. Amelie: I understand this more now, but I said if I don't reply straight away, if I don't reply for a days, it's not because I don't like you, it's because it's just I get overwhelmed, my brain gets, you and I'm taking this upon myself as well, a learning curve for myself to reply and to know that someone might actually wait for your reply. even if it's, you know, like, ⁓ I'm really busy right now and I'm really trying really hard. And I think she's such a good example of like me, because I really like, I really do not want to make her sad because she is such a sweet person and I don't want to make her sad. And it's not intentional, but it's just the person I am. I do it with my mom. I have, I have another like pen pal or email pal, also someone that just randomly found me. Lynn: Mm. you Amelie: you it's like the discussions as well, they're just like completely ⁓ different, interesting. that's the problem. ⁓ I want be, I want to reply with this profound replies. And it just takes time. ⁓ wish I sometimes I'm like, Amelie, just sit there and write what comes to your mind. And I do that and it's fine. But then I feel fake sometimes. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hmm. Amelie: that I don't put in more effort to it and I don't like that. I don't know. This is weird. Lynn: Yeah, yeah, I get that. Yeah, I don't get it. yeah. people are so interesting. No, yeah, yeah. But it's just so interesting how different people function. then because, mean, you just used to what you just know yourself, you know, and how you function. And I mean, you understand people around you. But then when somebody is completely different from you and you just have your own like your own matrix or whatnot, you know, I mean, Amelie: That was a long ramble but it's like... Lynn: You you learn to, you get to know other matrixes in a sense, other patterns, but still you just experience the world through your own. And then if somebody is so completely different and if you've not come across it very often, it's like, what is this? You know, like why, like, you know, also this, like, why are you so dependent on me? Like, okay, you think I'm cool or something, but like, why, why with this intensity, you know, and then If you read the psychology or if you understand the psychology behind it something, is it just different trauma? It makes sense. But navigating that or just trying to get into their mind and feeling like, this would be so exhausting for me. I don't have that kind of energy that I could be just latching onto people. I'm just like, no, no, no, people stay away from me. Amelie: Yeah. Yes, the thing, that's the thing. ⁓ Lynn: It's like, yeah, it's so interesting. Yeah, it's like cats and dogs. We can communicate, but it's like, just ⁓ so easy. ⁓ Amelie: Yeah Yeah, it's very difficult when you're very different people, but this is something that I found really interesting. One of the things that I love is discussing with people that are very different. ⁓ a challenge sometimes. And it's a challenge not to get angry with each other, because it's quite childish in a sense, but just having a discussion with others. Lynn: real. Mm, mm. Mm. Amelie: But no, I think that's really interesting. But I also think with me, never seen myself, I think it's coming from childhood thing. ⁓ I seen myself like important to someone else. ⁓ in like specifically you never met in real life, if it's just someone that messages to you. Lynn: Hmm. Hmm. Amelie: It's very difficult, I find, to understand the importance of you because you're like, but I'm just someone, I don't even live in the same country. We messaging and I'm sure that you have friends that are way more fun to be with than like just messaging me. then it maybe also puts a bit of pressure. Because if someone really like, kind of likes you, it puts a little bit of pressure on you. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Amelie: that you cannot, like what if I, you know, make them disappointed? What if I can't live up to like the hype? Lynn: you too kind Amelie you know it's just if you if you just get more like evil witch you know or like the it's just like you know Amelie: I... know what? I... ⁓ I've been... I've been... I've been on both... like both, you know, sides there. ⁓ never... never been like rude or without... without no... like always have to have specific reason and if it's something that I do that might seem harsh. Lynn: Yeah. Yeah. Amelie: it's with an intent to There's a learning curve in everything. ⁓ don't believe just to ⁓ dismiss people out of, you but I do think like if something actually feels too burdensome, you know, if I would find her messaging me so much ⁓ burdensome, I would say like, look, I don't that we can have this friendship because I Lynn: Mm. Mm. Amelie: I cannot handle this, I would explain that. But at the same time, I just felt like this is a challenge. This is a nice challenge in a sense of like, I'm not dealing with a psychopath. You know what I mean? It's not like, it's like, I've been trying to help so many like very nice people in my life. Why shouldn't I also be there for someone that is actually nice? Lynn: Hmm. Hmm. Hopefully. Yeah. Amelie: So I thought this could be a nice change. Lynn: you Yeah, something else is trying something else. Yeah. I know. I think like for me, as I've older, wiser, I don't know, but like it's I've gotten I've become very because I used the word possessive earlier, so it's not entirely the right word. But I've been quite protective, I guess, of my own energy. And I don't mean like in woo energy, but it's like if you talking like ADD or something like spoons. the energy to interact with other people or the energy to do something social or whatnot. And like very protective of that. And gotten much, much better to take care of it. Like to the point that even now it's sometimes, for example, when I'm in social situations where I do have to put on masks, you because I feel like, you know, now at this age ⁓ that I reached, you know, I... don't have to wear a mask anymore. with friends, prefer, usually don't wear a mask, depends on what level of friendship, right? But ⁓ my circle, I'm just like me, of they see different types of me, like not everybody sees the witch Lynn, right? And not everybody sees the writer Lynn or whatnot, but ⁓ still I'm Amelie: until they're Lynn: Mm-hmm, so they're ready maybe. it's interesting to just try and mingle those worlds a bit. It just blows people's minds. It's fantastic. I just did that. It was really cool. But anyway, it's like, yeah, so I'm trying, you know, I'm just basically me and people don't like it, you know, because I can be quite straightforward with things and then I don't really sugarcoat stuff unless I... I know you and I like you and I know that you need it, sometimes I do, but mostly I'm going to be quite blunt and Norwegians are not very good at bluntness. They stuff sugarcoated. So I'm just like, you know, sometimes just like, it's a interesting experience too. But I'm, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, ⁓ you know, Amelie: Yeah, it's like that in Sweden as well, I'm sure. I mean, I am sure, I know you have to sugarcoat things there. Lynn: But yeah, like even now it's like even in spaces where I'm more likely to wear a mask, like for example at work where I have like my mask is whatever I am as a job, you know, is the one that I'm primarily. But then I have recently started to step out that or not step out, but being more like, okay, I know I need space now and I don't care. If you think I'm un social or something, I'm just not going to be here in this room with you guys now. Like I have one co-worker who is very extrovert and she's sweet and all right, but she's very extrovert. And especially when I'm like on my break or when I've been like four or five hours just nonstop doing stuff. And quite it's a job that takes a lot of like both brain and physical energy and stuff sometimes, you know, so and sometimes when I'm going on my break. The last thing I want is like sit in a room with people that are all chatty and talking about and laughing about stuff and be like, ⁓ you know, I need the break and the coming down. So it's happened that I'm really just like, know, I'm just like ⁓ the room or even going there, you know, or you just like poking my head in and then people are like, nope. And I just ⁓ and not a big place, you know, so it's not like ⁓ one out of 20. It's like one person out of four. or five. So it's like, no, I'm not going to be here. I'll just sit down there and drink my drink and read my book or scroll my phone or whatever I'm doing. Right. So, yeah. And that helps a lot. Amelie: Yeah, I can completely relate to that. Back in the day when I used to go to work, I'm one of those lucky people that now can work from home, which I'm so grateful for, but it comes with its setbacks too. But ⁓ yeah, used to do that too. I used to literally like go ⁓ lunch I used to just like... Lynn: Yeah. Right, you're one of those here, right? ⁓ ⁓ huh. Amelie: just leave, go somewhere, sit by myself and do my thing. been ⁓ I've been trying to learn how to be more social and I do think that I learned to be more social because I had flatmates. So ⁓ that of ⁓ made a little bit kind of forcefully social. ⁓ But I think ⁓ that created trauma me. ⁓ Lynn: Mm, mm. Mm. Yeah. Amelie: Because, on who they are, I had some amazing flatmates, but I also had a few clingy ones ⁓ just just much for me. it's almost like you have to constantly be aware of their space, but they're never aware of your space. ⁓ Because ⁓ they're clingy and they need you, you're trying to be like, okay, I'm just going to put on that mask and be there for them because you can see that they need it. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Amelie: but then they will never do that back. It's always like knock, knock, knock on the door, you know, why don't you come out? Why can't we do something? And you're like, look, I need my space. I need to do something. And it's like almost like, yeah, but why can't you do it in the living room and we can watch something together. And I was like, no, I want to do it like by myself. So it's just, it's very frustrating when people around you don't understand that you have that, that you want to be by yourself. Lynn: Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Mm. Mm. Yeah. Amelie: I know, I do, really admire people that can do their own thing with other people around. They don't care who's like walking around. You know, when you go sometimes to markets and you have a market stall when there are maybe, let's say they're selling t-shirts, but they have a sewing machine and they're also sewing them at the stall. And you have like customers coming in, but they're still Lynn: Hmm. Mm. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, mm. Mm. Amelie: you know, being creative and doing their thing while people are watching. I really don't like that. I like to like do my thing. That's like that's my that's my ritual. I like to do it without anyone looking at me. And a lot of people have been like asking me like, don't you film yourself when you make your jewelry? Just like, but it's it's really awkward to me. Maybe I'll do it one day, but it's just like it just feels really awkward. Like, why would people want to Lynn: Mm. Mm. Hmm. Hmm, yeah. Mmm. Hahaha Amelie: look at what why like when i'm doing things it's really boring it's just sitting there fiddling with something you know it's boring but i don't know Lynn: Mm. I think it's probably meditative. From the other perspective, I also think it can be really interesting to watch somebody just do their stuff when people are immersed in their own world and don't care. It's quite relaxing. It's the 8 of discs thing, know, if it's just outside of that and you just observe it. It's very nice. Amelie: Yeah, but then I rather... Yeah. Yes, yes, but I'm like what Don't watch me, there's loads of other videos you can watch. Lynn: Yeah, I mean, if you don't like voyeurism, know, don't give into it. But I'm just saying, I understand that it can be very interesting. I've seen some of these videos online from these workers in China. They're quite like long videos, like several minutes, which is very long for like social media, right? And I just sit there for like... Amelie: Yeah Yeah. Lynn: I watched the whole thing because it starts out like somebody is really like farmers, you know, usually it's either a woman or a man, but it's usually like this one woman. And maybe there's people out there who know exactly I'm talking about. I'm talking about it's beautiful, like mountain landscapes. You know, this one woman doing like farmer work, like she would go out and she would start like hacking away something and she would throw stuff in the river and wash it. And then you see like, I don't know, two days go by and something. And then she goes and then she has like a big bundle of like wood or something on her back, like the 10 of wands, you're like, how the fuck does she carry that? I don't know, how does this tiny woman not break her back? And she must do this more often than once in her life, right? And she goes back and then she starts hacking at it and then she just does this this and this and again, and then this process, another process, and another process. And you're just sitting there like, it's so interesting, and what is she making? Because it's not saying, right? So what is she making? And it gets smaller and smaller and it's more intricate and you're like. I don't know, I don't even know what materials she's using, you know, and then, and then in the end, you see that they're making, I don't know, like an intricate mahjong set, right? Or some intricate artwork or just color. They're just prepared to make some indigo or whatever, you know, it's like, wow, and the whole process of this handcraft took like from several weeks, months to years, you know? it's like, yeah. Amelie: Yeah. But that I think, that think is really interesting because you're ⁓ like the ⁓ materials from the very start to finish. But just like, I'm just getting some like silver clay and making things. It's just like, it's not the same. You're like outside the scenery and like, it's just like beautiful. ⁓ Lynn: That's very beautiful to watch. Hmm. Yeah, but also Amelie. But you're taking it, you're taking it with that, with that filter of yourself, or you're saying that you don't think you're important. So when you have that, right, so when you have that filter that you're like, ⁓ but I'm nobody important, you automatically think like, what I'm doing isn't interesting either. You know, you see the connection there? Yeah. Amelie: Yeah, exactly, exactly. But it's funny that I feel like this because I used to dance, right? And I used to be on stage and I used to have some videos as well uploaded and stuff. And that's very much like you're there. Obviously when you're dancing, people have to look at you. And I had no issues with that as such. I quite enjoy it, but I think... Lynn: Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Amelie: What I used to do when I was doing the choreography, even when I was in a group, I used to always make a character of whoever, know, whatever choreography I did. I always, even if it was just in my mind, even if we all had, you know, similar clothes and stuff, in my mind, I was like, okay, this is the song, this is the character you are, she moves like this. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Mm. Hmm. Amelie: So when I'm on stage, I'm like in character. So it's not really me, it is a character. And that's kind of my way to separate that. So still, even though I was on stage and I've like, know, have videos and dancing, I'm in character. So this means like if I'm going to make videos of me like making jewelry, I have to ⁓ come up with a character. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Mm. Right. Yeah. Hmm. Mm. Amelie: It's really weird. Some kind of trauma. Lynn: Yeah, I mean, yeah, mean, there's yeah, yeah, no, no, but I mean, there's this thing, there's definitely this thing with performance, right? Versus I know what the versus would be authenticity or just being with like being yourself. But like when you it's almost like when you're feeling like you're you have to perform or you want to perform or whatever. if yeah, if there's people looking at you or having expectations, it's more likely that we're going into like a performative role. and not necessarily what we would do. And it could be like even in the small things, like when you say that, like with your flatmates, you know, that they want you to come out and you're like, hey, okay, I'm going to put on that mask then, right? And I'm stepping out and being like the ooh, extrovert. when you feel that other people need you in another way and you're like, okay, they need me now, I'm going to step into this role. It's mostly, or not mostly, but there's this, there's this sense of performing, performing, functioning. Amelie: Mm. Lynn: fulfilling a function for other people. Whereas if you were completely not performing and completely just doing what you actually felt like doing, lot of people might not try with that obviously. But I that's ⁓ a interesting thing to experiment with or ⁓ try and or do. to just realize like when am I actually performing something? When am I not? And can I pull this non performing thing into other into other situations? So I mean, I know, I mean, I mean, we are all performing . I have lots of my masks and this has been like, is this a current learning process for me as well? Like with this masks thing and the performance and whatnot. And I just find it very valuable to just experiment with what if I'm not performing right now, if I'm just genuinely me. And in some situations, it's probably like, you know, if in social situations, or you think you must wear masks, so it's easier sometimes. ⁓ sometimes if you just try and drop it and just be like, okay, it makes you vulnerable in a sense as well, But you just drop it, Amelie: Yeah, I was a- Lynn: without necessarily having to interact. It's not like you drop your mask and you talk to somebody, but just like being with other people without any pretension and then see how other people respond to that. And some people might respond negatively or feel like this is weird, but some other people think they might actually jive with that kind of, well, with the authenticity that is you in that moment much more. And again, also this thing is like what you're vibing outwards is also usually what you're getting back or what you're attracting. So if you're being more, I would say, I mean, again, we have to experiment, but people people say that as well. There's people behind me who say this is correct and true. But like if you're just being yourself, authenticity, authentically, a mask in a situation, ⁓ people who don't like whatever you were vibing them, they will not want to interact with you while people who think, okay, this is something that I feel very, very good about that will come to you. I just had, I just had a memory with us. I mean, maybe just sit with that in silence, you know, pause the podcast because this must be, ⁓ but had a memory with exactly this actually. And that was such, and this actually is a little bit weird in the sense that maybe it's little bit magical. Amelie: Hahaha Lynn: All right, so it fits with our stuff. But this was last year. And I was at a festival here in Norway that is a once in a year festival where both the Viking world, like a renaissance fair, mixed with heavy metal music and other music, also like more Viking music, Very, very cool place. It was the first time I partook in that. I was invited and I was so lucky. I was actually a tarot reader there. We had put up a big tent for like healers and it was really, really, really amazing experience. And we lived in the Viking village, you know, with our authentic Viking clothes and stuff. It was great. But there was a situation where one night there was always this They make this big bonfire at midnight and some of the artists, the musicians and some of the people from the Viking village who are sleeping there, they would come and then there would be music and people would bring drums and it was a really great experience. So I was at the bonfire for a while and then I just felt like, you know, there were some people I knew and then we had just separated and I just felt like, you know, being I was in this state, I was vibing like with myself basically and I just felt like pulling away and I walked to beach or to the water and I just sat down next to the water ⁓ and was a little cold, like away from the fire, just sat down with my drum and just out over the soft waves and know there were people to the left like laughing or swimming, people to the right and I heard the bonfire still but ⁓ it was like of things. And that moment, ⁓ connected I was like, okay, I'm at the water. ⁓ I with, I wanted connect with some of my deities and guides. And I was going into this zone ⁓ where I'm with the other world, basically. ⁓ And while was in there ⁓ and ⁓ going this. And I've probably been in that for like five, 10 minutes. I don't know. And I was, you know, in that space. And suddenly this person comes up to me from behind me. I don't remember exactly what the conversation was, ⁓ he came out from behind me and then he basically said, like, I think he started with like, you're you're out here all by yourself, you know, and I'm like, yeah. And like, huh? And you seem to like that. was just like, yeah. And he was like, can I just sit down? And he's like, sure. And I was like, I was not stepping out of that zone that I was in. Right. he just sat down and there was like a little bit of an exchange. I remember he asked me something and I said something incredibly profound. think I don't remember what. But he's like, know, and he's just like talking to me. And I felt he had this air of reverence almost like he didn't he was not a person evidently who was used to people being alone being happier or wanting to be alone you know because his first approach was like you know more like you're alone like you know are you okay kind of thing right he was he changed his vibe so much while he was just sitting there and talking to me and then he started saying like you know just sitting ⁓ to you and talking to you That is like therapy. You should do that as a thing. I'm point taken. was like, ⁓ know. mean, people said similar things, right? I mean, that I have something that people, I calm people down and whatnot by just being me or whatnot. But that was kind of particular because I was ⁓ vibing a different. frequency, suppose. then this part, and I was connected to particular entities at the moment. And then somebody I've never met before and never met after comes to me and he says stuff like, I think he said something else as well, something that when I afterwards, I was like, you know, if this had been like the eighth century or something or, know, I would go back to my village and people would be, he was a messenger from the gods, you know? I was like, because the things he said, was like, yes, yes, I should, I should do this. I should be this, you know? I was like, yes, you know? So that was like. Amelie: moments like that do have a meaning, it is a profound thing even though it's a person that you don't really connect with know before or after ⁓ during that moment ⁓ he said was meant for you to hear and I would definitely as well Lynn: one of them. Yeah, and I think the other way around, yeah, also the other, mean, I don't know what happened to him, but he just, you know, there was like this shift in his awareness or something that I found interesting, but also just the stuff that, or what he said, it's like that, that found a home, you know, as well. So I'm like, hmm, cool, very interesting, yeah. Amelie: Yeah, I mean meeting you only for that little time ⁓ life changing for him. You just never know. Lynn: Maybe, yeah, I believe that. No, I believe it profoundly. Maybe he went on to a meditation event or something. Yeah, I mean, just like there's something. Amelie: Yeah, I don't think it's a big headed to say that. Yeah, you just never know. Maybe that he was between like thinking about two things or maybe he was in, you know, conversation with himself where to go. ⁓ this ⁓ this real, is this not real? Should I go with this? Maybe was like the answer he Lynn: Yeah. Amelie: I think things like that definitely have. Lynn: Yeah, it was really cool. I also feel like probably like the way that I was sitting there, you know, in the dark, he was probably also thought that maybe I was not completely human myself either. you know, was really, really, really cool. Meeting. Yeah, that was really cool. So, apropos vibing yourself, stuff happens. Amelie: Yeah. That's really cool. Yeah, that's very true. But that's also... I don't know, it's like easier because you're being yourself by being by yourself and someone comes up and then you're just there because you can't just switch. think it's more ⁓ on like myself when I'm walking into a room with people ⁓ and myself like, you're just going to be yourself. And you know that there's 10 other people in that room, I find that very difficult but if you're just there... Lynn: Mm. Mm. Amelie: it's slightly easier somehow. Lynn: Oh yeah, yeah, and that's like what I said with this experimenting or trying to even like practice it. I've been trying to like really practice this, trying to take off my mask or switching masks where you don't expect a certain mask to be. And with masks, I feel like, you know, for example, the job or witch or writer or whatever, dog trainer. What are like many of these roles that I play? Amelie: Hmm. Mm. Lynn: and just switch into something where it's not expected or switching out of it and and and practicing that because it's so we're so it's so imprinted on us a thing and be so automatically going into those masks or into those roles that we know or we think are needed right now or are expected. You know, like the super social like now I'm going to be the extrovert here and you know, I'm going to make conversation and I'm going to be funny or you know, stuff like that. just practicing to try and switch out and in ⁓ of that is very, it's very interesting, quite magical practice. It's like shifting, know, it's shape shifting, ⁓ just, you mental or psychological shifting. Amelie: Yeah, I also think that... Yeah. just when you say I think I've done that all my life but maybe not in the same sense. It's just the fact that I always fit into wherever, you know, that's also different masks but I've been like that since school. I can fit into any kind of group which is really annoying as well because this is how you kind of... maybe... maybe will out. Lynn: Mm. spectrum. Amelie: as we go along we will find out where on the spectrum I am ⁓ that's very true ⁓ Lynn: We're all on some sort of spectrum, obviously, because everything is. But now, no, no, like this being able to just to say, put it out there, but being able to be like a chameleon ⁓ ⁓ really well like social patterns and fit in really well is is quite ⁓ is of those big traits of ⁓ Aspie Asperger's women, for example. They're extremely good at. fitting in everywhere, knowing what to say, knowing what is expected. And they fit in so well that they go completely under the radar of being ever on some sort of spectrum. ⁓ Amelie: Yeah, yeah, could be me. No, for sure. I've always been like that. But I also feel whenever I kind of the mask down ⁓ ⁓ I've been myself, many ⁓ well, a few times now, it all ⁓ happened that show yourself who you really are and then ⁓ that Lynn: Mm. Amelie: person just hurts you. So I feel been ⁓ of like maybe hiding because many times I feel like ⁓ some maybe mean to say but I'm gonna say it anyway just like you don't deserve to see me who for who I really am and it almost feels like there's Lynn: Mm. ⁓ yeah. Amelie: it's almost like you have to earn it, but I'm not talking about earning it and in the sense of like you have to buy me an ice cream or a really expensive present, it's not like that. But it's more like this whole, I need to see like, what is your, like how are you with loyalty? How are you with like, know, honesty? ⁓ find those things are very ⁓ And if I... ⁓ Lynn: Mm. It comes with trust, yeah. Amelie: Yeah, and I have extreme trust issues. That's like one of the things, extreme trust issues. So for me, I find it very difficult to just like, just be myself completely with other people of that. So ⁓ feels really mean to say to people like that you don't really, you deserve the me yet. ⁓ It's not I'm being fake or anything. I'm still being. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mmm. Amelie: I'm still being, you know, authentic myself, but I'm very aware. This is why I think many times I do stutter when I reply to things and this has been happening so ⁓ this whole narcissistic ⁓ I'm wary of how I say things and what I say because ⁓ I want to be triggering to people. I don't want to say something wrong because then... Lynn: Yeah Mm. Mm. Amelie: You just don't know how they're to act. It was just so stupid. It's so silly. Right? But Lynn: Well, you've learned it. Amelie: Yeah, but it's really annoying. do get like, I think once I get comfortable with the people, I more more relaxed with it, ⁓ but just very aware of how I say things. And I think it doesn't really help the fact that we have so many nowadays that get so triggered by certain just random things. ⁓ And ⁓ Lynn: Mm. Hmm. Mm. Amelie: a completely different, like, those are narcissists too. ⁓ that's it. Lynn: Yeah, I was like walking on eggshells. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's difficult. It's difficult. Yeah, there's a lot. So it's really nice to either, you know, to either be ignorant of everything is very nice or being able to just be a bitch about everything also makes life much easier. yeah, kudos, kudos to that. Like that is that is a strength. Yeah. But I feel like Amelie: or just to bitch about everything. Lynn: What you just said with having to earn that kind of side of you. mean, that sounds or I mean, to me, like for me, it would sound more like, you know, it's the vulnerability that, you know, because that obviously is where people can hurt somebody. And, know, obviously people have different levels of vulnerability and are vulnerable in different places. And then all the masks we wear and everything we put on, obviously that or I say obviously, maybe too much. But that is seemingly a protective shell that we put on. and protective layers, they go two ways because although they protect us from the outside, they also like a shield protects us, but a shield also shields us in the sense that we also cannot get through. Yeah. It's like a little bit like a prison. It's like it goes both ways. And yeah, I don't know. mean, for me, like we thought like my little experiences with like difficult people or like toxic relationships or when I've been hurt by people that I've been really close to. And it usually comes out of nowhere. Like for me, like, it's like, why did this happen? know, it's like. Amelie: Yeah. Yeah. Lynn: more I've gone through experiences like this. ⁓ the beginning, it was like I was walling myself up more and more and more and building like more of these protective layers. But ⁓ feel like in the past, I don't know, five to 10, no, probably not 10, but at least, I don't know, half a decade maybe. have, think more in this place where I know. I know a quotation, a quote unquote, that I don't all these protective layers because there's very little ⁓ needs to be shielded. So this is like very, it sounds very like high almighty because this can be a situation. And if I get, know, when you get close to somebody and you put yourself open, you're obviously very like out there and then they can put a knife in it or dagger and twist it. And that is shit, right? But still, feel like I don't have that much to protect anymore as I used to. Not it's not to be protected, but that I I can heal myself faster if something happens, if that makes sense. So don't have to put up all those shields, if that makes sense. Yeah, but that is that is like a big learning. Yeah, it's but it's like a process or it's been a process for me and it's been like a Amelie: Yeah, it does make sense. Lynn: sometimes a steep learning curve and there's been like an ice wall. Yeah, I think there was still like six years ago or something. was like, there was somebody was interested in me and I was like, just like, you know, you're not gonna get through this ice wall. And he really tried to melt in. I was just like, not happening. I mean, I wasn't interested, know, but it was interesting to see or to just be like, no, you know, there's a wall. But then like, No, actually, there's not really a wall anymore. Now it's just like I'm presenting myself the way that I want to be seen, more or less, you know, and then if you don't like it, you just go, you know, it's fine if you like it. Step one step closer, we'll see, you know. Yeah. ⁓ Amelie: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Lynn: I don't know. So life is interesting, man. Look at that. We just, okay. So ⁓ is like, is this a full length episode already? ⁓ started talking about toxicity and narcissism or narcissists rather specifically for quite a while, you know, going on about our own experiences with it and everything. Amelie: Yeah. Yeah Yeah. Lynn: about reinventing ourselves. Yeah. Talked about social media as well or wasting time or not wanting to waste time. Communication issues and this whole thing about also like authenticity and now last but not least like walls of protection and vulnerability. Yeah. I think we brushed lot of things here. ⁓ A bit of magic. Amelie: We ended up on the thing that a narcissist would hate the most. Lynn: yeah. We going full circle. ⁓ Yeah. That was that was great. Amelie: Hehehehehe Yeah. Yeah, hope... No, I'm quite sure that this would be an interesting topic to many, because I have a feeling that a lot of people had someone ⁓ ⁓ their lifetime, yeah. ⁓ you know, that fit the description to... Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's very true. Lynn: Mm. Oh, it'll feel familiar. Yeah. Oh, maybe they're still in it. Get out. Get out. Yeah. No, no. Amelie: Yeah I was just about to say get out. It's not as easy as it sounds but you know... But do. But do. Lynn: Do it, do it. well ⁓ was tonight's episode of Corner of Chaos. Appropriately chaotic. Well, hope see you in the next rabbit hole. Have fun meanwhile the dark night skies out there ⁓ and if you what you heard subscribe below. Bye! Amelie: Yeah. Definitely chaos. Bye.