Latest / Rugby Direct / Rugby Direct Episode 238: In, out, and unlucky - breaking down Rennie’s first squad

Transcript

Rugby Direct Episode 238: In, out, and unlucky - breaking down Rennie’s first squad · Rugby Direct

0:09
Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks at B.
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Speaker 1: Straight down the Middle.
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Speaker 2: Drop Sky.
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Speaker 1: Try get inside the game from every end goal. It's
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Speaker 1: Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith and Leam Navier powered by
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Speaker 1: News Talks B.
0:41
Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Habit House Book today
0:44
Speaker 2: and stay in the game. Elliott Smith with me, Liam
0:48
Speaker 2: Napier and nape said, has been a full on day
0:51
Speaker 2: for both of us, up early to go to Palmi
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Speaker 2: North and then be on that too Field and Yellow's
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Speaker 2: Rugby Club for the first All Black Squad announcements of
1:00
Speaker 2: the year. I'm sure by now our beloved listeners would
1:04
Speaker 2: have seen that list. But what was your reaction to
1:07
Speaker 2: the third before, read by David Kirk at about twelve
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Speaker 2: o'clock today?
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Speaker 3: It was great to be in the heartlands, wasn't Elliott's
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Speaker 3: in championship country these days? Super rugby championship country. Good burgers,
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Speaker 3: great people, yep, great rugby teams.
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Speaker 2: Keep going. We'll get to the hurricanes of it later
1:26
Speaker 2: on that We're allocated about ninety seconds for them of
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Speaker 2: the podcast.
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Speaker 3: Look the thirty four man All Black Squad Dave Any
1:33
Speaker 3: highly anticipated. I think largely as expected, but four rookies
1:41
Speaker 3: and a couple of big emissions. Rika Whanney the big
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Speaker 3: headline missing absentee, the first player to go away on
1:51
Speaker 3: an overseas sabbatical and not come back straight to the
1:54
Speaker 3: All Blacks. So that's notable in itself we can unpack.
1:58
Speaker 3: I guess we're Rico's that in terms of his career.
2:00
Speaker 3: Bit more, Noah Hotham starting Crusaders halfback, overlooked for Kyle
2:05
Speaker 3: Preston who was very impressive off the bench, and Dupe
2:11
Speaker 3: Caifa played eight Tests for the All Blacks last year
2:15
Speaker 3: as rookie test year under Scott Robinson without really having
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Speaker 3: too much impact or a lot of those tests were
2:23
Speaker 3: off the bench. He's been usurped by Anton Segna. So
2:27
Speaker 3: I think three big outs, four big inns and Artie
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Speaker 3: Severe captain who was probably always going to be captain,
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Speaker 3: wasn't He.
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Speaker 2: Did feel like it was heading towards Ardie Savier being captain.
2:35
Speaker 2: There's a bit of talk about a Cody Taylor or
2:36
Speaker 2: a Jordie Barrett, but it felt like Dave Rennie was
2:39
Speaker 2: poised to make Ardie Savia captain. Although they he only
2:42
Speaker 2: made that phone call yesterday to Ardie Savia. We'll get
2:46
Speaker 2: onto some of the emissions and various other things shortly.
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Speaker 2: The four new Caps named today out of the Hurricanes,
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Speaker 2: three from the title winning team, prob Zavi and Numea
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Speaker 2: Wingsfo and Josh Morby gets elected and out of the
3:00
Speaker 2: Blues Anton Segna, three players that had certainly been in
3:04
Speaker 2: the mix. Sorry full players that have been in the mix. Again.
3:08
Speaker 2: The loose for trio was always up for debate, saving
3:11
Speaker 2: to me, I felt like he was going to be
3:12
Speaker 2: They've had a very very good Super Rugby season and
3:15
Speaker 2: the two wings combined for thirty four tries for the
3:17
Speaker 2: young and Moreby and I guess we start with them.
3:21
Speaker 2: Their form was just irrepressible and have played it down
3:25
Speaker 2: a bit by just saying he caught the ball into
3:26
Speaker 2: the passing chain today. But you know they've earned their
3:30
Speaker 2: spots and they've gone with the hot hands and the wingers.
3:33
Speaker 4: Yeah.
3:33
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And I think traditionally the all Black swings you
3:37
Speaker 3: do select on form. You get them when they're hot,
3:39
Speaker 3: when they're scoring tries. But these guys have done more
3:43
Speaker 3: than that. I think they have made the most of
3:46
Speaker 3: the hurricanes attack, but they've they go looking for work
3:49
Speaker 3: and then he is a real work. Great guys, but
3:52
Speaker 3: these guys go off their wings that are highly involved,
3:56
Speaker 3: great furnishing, prowess, anticipation, different players. Moreby's probably morphed from
4:03
Speaker 3: a fallback to a wing finger on all four his
4:06
Speaker 3: strength pay and I think he's been the best finisher
4:11
Speaker 3: out and out finisher in Super Rugby this year. Interesting
4:14
Speaker 3: to see where his contract goes now. I think I
4:18
Speaker 3: don't know this, but I think Morby may have missed
4:20
Speaker 3: out had lestifying a nook who been fits. They could
4:24
Speaker 3: have included Fying a Nuoku as a forward or a back.
4:27
Speaker 3: He's got that hybrid potential. But both those guys are
4:30
Speaker 3: fully deserving of their inclusion. It's going to be interesting
4:33
Speaker 3: to see how that form translates to the Test arena,
4:36
Speaker 3: which in recent years has featured a lot more high balls.
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Speaker 3: That's been a real Achilles hero of the All Blacks game.
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Speaker 3: Moreby is probably more proficient at that.
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Speaker 2: From the limited evidence we've seen at Super rugby level.
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Speaker 2: And again it's not a way. You know, we sort
4:50
Speaker 2: of a lot of it on Saturday night with the weather,
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Speaker 2: but it's not necessarily a way that New Zealand teams
4:55
Speaker 2: tend to attack, or at least not with the regularity
4:58
Speaker 2: of foreign teams where they are using it as one
5:02
Speaker 2: of the sole attacking weapons. It's part of the arsenal
5:04
Speaker 2: for a lot of New Zealand teams, but not the
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Speaker 2: sole thing or the main driver to the way to
5:10
Speaker 2: turn aerial battles into position contests. But I've been really
5:14
Speaker 2: impressed with Josh Morby, and he's a player that I
5:17
Speaker 2: think he's twenty seven from memory, you know, went and
5:20
Speaker 2: had a stint in France.
5:21
Speaker 3: Well Montpellier. He was signed for two years, got out
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Speaker 3: of that contract one year early to come home for
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Speaker 3: the Hurricanes, and now he's in the album.
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Speaker 2: Now he's in the All Blacks and he looking pressed
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Speaker 2: before he went, but didn't really shout All Blacks potential,
5:34
Speaker 2: at least to me. Has come back and looks really
5:37
Speaker 2: in a shured part. And for a lot of the
5:38
Speaker 2: season he sort of went under the radar with Finangonoph
5:41
Speaker 2: and I'd argue that phanangen enough went under the radar
5:44
Speaker 2: last year at the Hurricanes because of what Kenning the
5:45
Speaker 2: Holo was doing on the other wing. But this year
5:48
Speaker 2: they both got the Spoils and I really like Molby's
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Speaker 2: tidiness under the highball. His work rate is exceptional. He
5:55
Speaker 2: goes looking for work and inside the twenty two he's
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Speaker 2: just a bundle of energy and I think that's really
6:03
Speaker 2: real positive to have in an all black setup.
6:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, and when we cast ahead to the first Test,
6:09
Speaker 3: I think you're probably looking at Caleb Clark on the
6:11
Speaker 3: left and Fingale and Off on the right. Fullback's probably
6:15
Speaker 3: up for debate at this point because will Jordan's touch
6:17
Speaker 3: and go whether he'll be fit for that, So it
6:20
Speaker 3: could be Bone and Barrick, could be Damien McKenzie, but
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Speaker 3: I don't think Morby will be starting just yet. But yeah,
6:29
Speaker 3: interesting to see how those guys are progressed.
6:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And with Jordan not potentially not being there,
6:34
Speaker 2: I don't know why they'd risk him against France. It
6:36
Speaker 2: feels like maybe you get him some game time against
6:38
Speaker 2: Italy and then with a view to playing him against
6:40
Speaker 2: Ireland in Week three of the Nations Championship the Southern Series,
6:44
Speaker 2: so you know those are the options there's Having you
6:48
Speaker 2: upfront has been impressive for the Hurricanes this year. Fellow
6:51
Speaker 2: last year he was right in the mix inn from
6:52
Speaker 2: memory injury just around the All Black squad selection, then
6:57
Speaker 2: didn't quite get up to All Black speed. But this
7:00
Speaker 2: year he's been a vital part of that Hurricanes title
7:03
Speaker 2: winning team and really like what he offers at scrum time,
7:08
Speaker 2: So you know, around the park, really impressed with what
7:10
Speaker 2: he's done and while deserving of a selection.
7:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think again, the Test arena will test him
7:16
Speaker 3: in different ways. You're coming up against the box potentially England, Islands,
7:24
Speaker 3: France really good scrummaging. Scrummaging in particular will potentially raise
7:28
Speaker 3: a few question marks, but we'll yet to find that out.
7:30
Speaker 3: But in terms of around the field mobility, offloading, physicality
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Speaker 3: on defense that he really brought this year, he could
7:39
Speaker 3: not pack com I thought Lean Norris might have gone close,
7:42
Speaker 3: but they went George Bauer, so he knew me a
7:45
Speaker 3: fully deserving What about signa overt duplessy on the face
7:50
Speaker 3: of it too, kind of similar players who attacked the
7:53
Speaker 3: breakdown a lot signa. It's a great story, isn't it.
7:57
Speaker 3: He started playing rugby as a ten year old in
8:00
Speaker 3: Germany following the twenty eleven World Cup from Europe, getting
8:05
Speaker 3: up in the morning and took a chance to Nelson
8:09
Speaker 3: as a teenager room with leicesterifying Anokho down there, and
8:13
Speaker 3: he's just really really chipped away at his craft, bulked
8:16
Speaker 3: up and this season was a standout for the Blues
8:19
Speaker 3: in a pretty underwhelming Blues year.
8:22
Speaker 2: Yea, he was. He was clearly the best player, most
8:24
Speaker 2: consistent play and look, I imagine it was a really tight
8:28
Speaker 2: call between those two. But we've seen Signa's work rate
8:31
Speaker 2: is huge and I'm not saying du isn't because he
8:35
Speaker 2: gets a lot of work, gets all the week, a
8:37
Speaker 2: lot of turnovers, but it sounds like Anton Signer's work
8:40
Speaker 2: post contact with ball in hand, post contact meters probably
8:44
Speaker 2: got him over the line. He's a line out option,
8:46
Speaker 2: although you probably wantn't want to use him with too
8:49
Speaker 2: much regularity at international level, but the Blues certainly had
8:53
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's just I mean, it's a great story,
8:55
Speaker 2: isn't it. And and look, he's gonna have to take another
8:57
Speaker 2: step up to go to test level. But I sort
8:59
Speaker 2: of felt last year, you know, would track the story
9:02
Speaker 2: for a little bit. You know, it's been a headline
9:04
Speaker 2: story for it for a number of years now, Anton
9:05
Speaker 2: Signa and the potential of playing you know, All Blacks
9:08
Speaker 2: and starting with Nelson College and then Tasman and beyond,
9:12
Speaker 2: it felt like it for a time it maybe it
9:14
Speaker 2: wouldn't happen for him, Maybe it was just a tad
9:16
Speaker 2: too small.
9:16
Speaker 3: But yeah, I felt we talked about him earlier this
9:19
Speaker 3: year and you're probably pushing this case a wee bit
9:21
Speaker 3: more than I thought, maybe on the cusp, but potentially
9:24
Speaker 3: we were undersized.
9:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he has bulked up. And not saying he's,
9:28
Speaker 2: you know, the hulk, but he's he's bulked up a
9:30
Speaker 2: little bit. And sometimes test we kind of need those
9:34
Speaker 2: players that are just terurious and that is probably where
9:39
Speaker 2: Anton Signa falls into his work road is immense. And
9:42
Speaker 2: you know what's that saying, it's not the size of
9:44
Speaker 2: the five and the dog, it's the size of the
9:46
Speaker 2: dog and the flight. Whatever it might be. It's been
9:48
Speaker 2: a long day. But regardless, that's the kind of player
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Speaker 2: that he is and could be for the All Blacks.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think he deserves a crack. He was
9:58
Speaker 3: Blues Player of the Year players player just consistently amongst everything,
10:02
Speaker 3: and I think Renny talked today, like you pointed out
10:05
Speaker 3: about the numbers behind some of the selections, but also
10:10
Speaker 3: reference to the fact that dub Careff he was sensational
10:13
Speaker 3: for the Hurricanes last year and probably didn't quite have
10:16
Speaker 3: the same impact this season, where Signa in a battling
10:20
Speaker 3: Blues team was consistently their best player.
10:22
Speaker 2: So that helps.
10:24
Speaker 3: And also think back to last year and yeah, the
10:26
Speaker 3: All Blacks had their struggles, but I think Caref he
10:29
Speaker 3: did struggle to bring that same impact, particularly at the breakdown,
10:33
Speaker 3: which is his out and out strength from Super rugby
10:36
Speaker 3: to the Test arena. So maybe this All Black panel
10:40
Speaker 3: reflected on that as well.
10:41
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and look, his time may come again for the
10:44
Speaker 2: All Blacks the South African to look, he'd be the
10:47
Speaker 2: ideal of midweek captain's. His absolute leader is Careffe and
10:51
Speaker 2: you know is on the edge of that Test level.
10:53
Speaker 2: He could be a player that you know, leads this
10:55
Speaker 2: team in the in those key midwek fixtures away from
10:59
Speaker 2: the you know that the shadow Test team potentially, I
11:01
Speaker 2: don't know, I mean maybe something that they look at.
11:05
Speaker 2: Let's talk about do they slipped on form they promised
11:08
Speaker 2: I would and Dave Ronnie did when he took on
11:10
Speaker 2: the job. Do you feel they did.
11:11
Speaker 3: In most cases? Yes, I think you could argue guys
11:15
Speaker 3: like Courtiz Ratma, Luke Jacobson that just top of the
11:23
Speaker 3: heads there's eleven Canes as eleven Chiefs, So the two
11:26
Speaker 3: best teams in Super rugby were rewarded. There's five Crusaders
11:32
Speaker 3: with a few missing through injury, but uh, it's well done,
11:38
Speaker 3: Dave Rennie. Five Blues, one from Wana an Ardi and
11:43
Speaker 3: one lone soldier Ethan de group from from the Highlanders
11:47
Speaker 3: taaoare missing out as well. So the two best teams
11:52
Speaker 3: in New Zeala have been rewarded. But you could potentially
11:57
Speaker 3: argue the Chiefs are a bit heavy, but they clearly
12:01
Speaker 3: like Jacobson over over a Kreefe because he covers all
12:06
Speaker 3: three loose Ford trio position and Ratsma I think didn't
12:10
Speaker 3: have his best season and I still have question marks
12:13
Speaker 3: about his ability at test level. I really like Kyle
12:16
Speaker 3: Preston's inclusion. I think his speed to the breakdown, which
12:20
Speaker 3: is why Rennie pointed out that no Hope the missed
12:23
Speaker 3: out and his Preston's ability to kick off both feet.
12:28
Speaker 3: What about you on the whole? Did Rennie make good
12:31
Speaker 3: on his promise?
12:32
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think he did. Look, there's always players you
12:34
Speaker 2: can quibble over and What sticks in the mind Ros
12:38
Speaker 2: recently is the Hurricanes belting the Chiefs to the tune
12:41
Speaker 2: of sixty points to five. But he said that no
12:43
Speaker 2: one they had thirty four locked in before the final
12:46
Speaker 2: didn't change as a result of that. I think by
12:49
Speaker 2: and large it's on form. You know, there are players
12:51
Speaker 2: in that squad that certainly haven't had their best seasons.
12:54
Speaker 2: You know, Boden Barret would be one of those as well.
12:57
Speaker 2: And you know there's probably a little bit of pressure
12:59
Speaker 2: coming in with Richie Wong is impending return, absolutely because
13:03
Speaker 2: one of these three are going to be squeezed out,
13:06
Speaker 2: you would think, out of the first five ranks unless
13:08
Speaker 2: they pipulate at the squad in a different way. You know,
13:10
Speaker 2: Lucas Casey had a strong season for the Highlanders, maybe
13:13
Speaker 2: touched too early, but wouldn't surprise to see him on
13:16
Speaker 2: the South African tour and probably a little bit hurt
13:19
Speaker 2: by the fact that the Highlanders season ended so early and
13:22
Speaker 2: he wasn't in front of mine for selectors too.
13:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, just on that I heard a whisper that so
13:25
Speaker 3: the All Blacks, they had a camp prior to the
13:28
Speaker 3: squad naming guys like Ethan Blackheader Lucas Casey, Richie Muanger.
13:33
Speaker 3: We're all amongst that and the non finalists, so clearly
13:38
Speaker 3: those guys are well in the frame.
13:40
Speaker 2: Indeed, you touched on before Kyle Preston making it over
13:42
Speaker 2: Noah hopem Let's listened to what Dave Rennie had to
13:44
Speaker 2: say about that earlier today.
13:48
Speaker 4: I just really like his speed the breakdown and the
13:50
Speaker 4: quality of his skill set.
13:51
Speaker 2: He distributs really well.
13:54
Speaker 4: We want to play a really high tempo game, and
13:57
Speaker 4: he sees that he's obviously kicks excellently off both feet
14:00
Speaker 4: and so look, it was tough Noah's noa has had
14:03
Speaker 4: a good season. He's a very good player. But we
14:07
Speaker 4: felt Kyle and will it give us a little bit
14:12
Speaker 4: more speed to a breakdown?
14:14
Speaker 2: Speed to the breakdown and we you s emphasize that
14:16
Speaker 2: what they're looking for there, it couldn't be much clearer, really, no.
14:19
Speaker 3: And that comes back to the way this all Black
14:21
Speaker 3: team will attempt to play tempo, pace, physicality, brutality. I
14:27
Speaker 3: think you'll see them try and use the ball get
14:30
Speaker 3: to width, but fundamentally they'll have to win the collisions first.
14:34
Speaker 3: They'll have to get that go forward. Their set piece
14:36
Speaker 3: will have to be proficient, but speedable both in the
14:40
Speaker 3: hands and at the breakdown's key and if you're getting
14:43
Speaker 3: that go forward you don't want to waste it. So
14:45
Speaker 3: it is probably a bit of a rocket for Noah
14:46
Speaker 3: to work on that area of his game.
14:49
Speaker 2: From Our Statsman, where Crusader's commentator Nick Beuley pointed out
14:52
Speaker 2: that Kyle Preson did not start a single game for
14:55
Speaker 2: the Crusaders. There can't of be many players that have
14:57
Speaker 2: done that in the Super Rugby season then being selected
15:00
Speaker 2: in the All Blacks.
15:02
Speaker 3: No, I can't think of too many. I guess the
15:04
Speaker 3: Hurricanes are probably one example of their depth at tight
15:06
Speaker 3: hair prop Pusclio Tossi was a bit of a boulter
15:09
Speaker 3: from the blue, wasn't there. He had barely played for
15:13
Speaker 3: the Hurricanes, but they liked his body shape and his
15:17
Speaker 3: potential and that's been proven true. So yeah, sometimes your
15:20
Speaker 3: Black selectors have different ideas in their club counterparts.
15:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, they do. What order would you put the half back.
15:26
Speaker 2: Let's assume Roy Guard's top, who would you put on
15:30
Speaker 2: the bench for next week's test.
15:32
Speaker 3: I'd have Preston, yeah, because he's a real point of
15:34
Speaker 3: difference and he's been fulfilling that role very well for
15:38
Speaker 3: the Crusaders. I think Ratima has got elements of game
15:42
Speaker 3: his game to work on while he's more experienced. I
15:47
Speaker 3: do like what Preston brings.
15:48
Speaker 2: You, specipect Hathn's time would probably come again. His speed
15:53
Speaker 2: to ruck is what evidently he needs to work on,
15:55
Speaker 2: according to Dave, for any there, because it's not up
15:57
Speaker 2: with what Preston's doing, Ratsma and of course roy Guard,
16:00
Speaker 2: so he needs to work on that for Tasma and
16:02
Speaker 2: the NPC.
16:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's be clear that this that this thirty four
16:06
Speaker 3: man squad is for Three Nations Cheam and Ship's tests
16:09
Speaker 3: in July, and you can have forty four players go
16:12
Speaker 3: to South Africa and August, so it's only a month away.
16:16
Speaker 3: And that adding ten extra players gives you so much
16:18
Speaker 3: more flexibility, allows you to build depth. You're going to
16:21
Speaker 3: have multiple games. So the door is not closed on
16:25
Speaker 3: Iwane and a lot of these guys, or is it.
16:28
Speaker 2: Well, maybe it is. He's what Dave Rinni had to
16:30
Speaker 2: say earlier about how the selection wents in terms of
16:34
Speaker 2: not selecting Rico Juani for the All Black Side. Yeah,
16:37
Speaker 2: I missed a lot of competition.
16:38
Speaker 4: If you look at a couple other guys who've come
16:40
Speaker 4: and on debut fore Here and Josh basical call seventeen
16:46
Speaker 4: tries each have been on fire. Now Rico I've obviously
16:52
Speaker 4: been away at Leinster and what we know is will
16:55
Speaker 4: take forty four to Africa, and so he's still an
16:58
Speaker 4: opportunity for him to come and especially with his Vestaly well.
17:01
Speaker 2: You can add him to the having touring squad by
17:04
Speaker 2: the sound of it. But what I took from that
17:07
Speaker 2: from Davin is that he clearly sees him as a
17:09
Speaker 2: wing option. He mentions for he and Josh moreby being
17:13
Speaker 2: in good form, doesn't mention about the midfield makeup for
17:16
Speaker 2: Rico y Wanning or am I reading too much into that?
17:19
Speaker 3: I think maybe reading too much into it for me.
17:22
Speaker 3: Rico his avenue back and is still I think he
17:26
Speaker 3: needs to commit to center. I think he's too slow
17:28
Speaker 3: for wing. I think he is not proficient under the
17:31
Speaker 3: high ball, doesn't deal with it well, doesn't chase it well.
17:37
Speaker 3: He did spend the bulk of his time at Leinster
17:39
Speaker 3: on the wing, but then finished at center in the
17:43
Speaker 3: USC final. If he can really work on his distribution,
17:47
Speaker 3: he's still buy and large well prior to going to
17:51
Speaker 3: Leinster and now was very good defensively. Yeah, So I
17:55
Speaker 3: just think at the back end of his career everything,
17:58
Speaker 3: there's so many hurdles to overcome to become a Test winger,
18:02
Speaker 3: to turn back the clock. It just it doesn't happen.
18:04
Speaker 2: Really.
18:05
Speaker 3: So if he is going to crack back, and I
18:06
Speaker 3: think his avenue is it seen to. So you're looking
18:09
Speaker 3: at guys like Billy Proctor, Antolina Brown, Quinta Pie still
18:14
Speaker 3: well down the wrung isn't here he is.
18:16
Speaker 2: Look. I made some comments on the pod last week
18:17
Speaker 2: around the fact that if you go on sabbatical you
18:20
Speaker 2: get selected for the All Blacks, evidently not under Dave
18:23
Speaker 2: Rennies All Blacks because they've drawn a hard line and gone,
18:25
Speaker 2: actually you're form away from New Zealand isn't good enough
18:28
Speaker 2: to be selected in this all black squad. And it's
18:33
Speaker 2: the first that I can recall a player going on
18:35
Speaker 2: sabbatical and not getting it back, which I guess now
18:37
Speaker 2: probably puts in the minds maybe of players that may
18:40
Speaker 2: be under the top tier, maybe mid tier players want
18:44
Speaker 2: of a better term going on sabbaticals, that have earned
18:46
Speaker 2: the right, that have played the seventy test mark, which
18:49
Speaker 2: has long been suggested as the trigger mark for earning
18:52
Speaker 2: a sabbatical, but it just puts in the back of
18:55
Speaker 2: their mind, is this actually worth it? And I don't
18:58
Speaker 2: know rika Yani is coming back a USC champion, but
19:01
Speaker 2: ultimately was it worth it because he's not going to
19:03
Speaker 2: be in the All Blacks at least for the first
19:04
Speaker 2: three tests of the year he.
19:06
Speaker 3: Was bank balance is going to be improved, and I'm
19:08
Speaker 3: sure he enjoyed the experience of going to Ireland, playing
19:11
Speaker 3: a different style of rugby, playing in different arenas, with
19:15
Speaker 3: different players. All those things are great experiences. I don't
19:22
Speaker 3: think it was a great decision from him to go there.
19:25
Speaker 3: The bar was set so high by Jordi Barrett Lens
19:28
Speaker 3: to have exceptional expectations. Japan would have been a much
19:33
Speaker 3: easier option for him. Whether that would have improved his
19:36
Speaker 3: game or tested him, probably not in the same capacity,
19:41
Speaker 3: but maybe he will regret his decision. And I think
19:44
Speaker 3: you're right that others are the fringe or Blacks will
19:48
Speaker 3: potentially question that in future, and it does see in
19:51
Speaker 3: a signal that you're not guaranteed, and it is the first,
19:55
Speaker 3: really I think we've seen others who weren't contracted to
19:57
Speaker 3: come back to He's on a rugby so they had
19:59
Speaker 3: to come back and first play provincial rugby. But this
20:01
Speaker 3: is the first of a guy who had made a
20:03
Speaker 3: longer commitment who has not come back for the All Blacks.
20:07
Speaker 3: But let's be honest, Rico, prior to going to Leinster
20:10
Speaker 3: had been on the Wayne for at least eighteen months.
20:13
Speaker 3: He'd fallen down the pecking order. He was out of
20:15
Speaker 3: the first choice twenty three squad consistently. He finished starting
20:20
Speaker 3: against Wales the last All Blacks Test, but that was
20:24
Speaker 3: a fringe prospects wider squad game when the Grand Slam
20:29
Speaker 3: was gone. So he's been on the Wayne. This is
20:33
Speaker 3: not a total shock. But to go from missing a
20:37
Speaker 3: first choice twenty three man squad to a thirty four
20:39
Speaker 3: man squad, he's got a lot of work to do.
20:41
Speaker 2: He does, and look, maybe the time it lends comes back,
20:44
Speaker 2: implements it in the NPC for Auckland or maybe in
20:47
Speaker 2: the midweeks for the All Blacks, and maybe his time
20:49
Speaker 2: comes again and he does find a way back in.
20:52
Speaker 2: But this feels like a big juncture in terms of
20:54
Speaker 2: his career, doesn't it.
20:55
Speaker 3: Oh massive, And I think by the end of the
20:57
Speaker 3: year will know whether he's gonna stick around, have a
21:01
Speaker 3: crack at the World Cup, or whether it's times passed
21:06
Speaker 3: them by and maybe asked for an early release.
21:08
Speaker 2: On early releases or various things. For being selected. We've
21:13
Speaker 2: touched on him being selected. We haven't touched on the
21:15
Speaker 2: fact that he is leaving after this year in one
21:17
Speaker 2: of those other contract wrangles. And you know, presidents, I
21:21
Speaker 2: suppose similar to Rico, is that never before, to my knowledge,
21:25
Speaker 2: the All Black selected an uncapped player and a year
21:28
Speaker 2: that they have signaled they are leaving New Zealand rugby.
21:31
Speaker 2: So what does this tell you?
21:34
Speaker 3: It tells you that he's very hot and couldn't be overlocked.
21:38
Speaker 3: But I think it firmly indicates that the All Blacks
21:43
Speaker 3: want him to stay. I think fear he wants to stay,
21:46
Speaker 3: and everyone will be doing everything they can to ensure
21:49
Speaker 3: that happens. My understanding is there's not going to be
21:53
Speaker 3: a rapid resolution around this, but him making the All
21:56
Speaker 3: Blacks changes the complexion of his earning capacity and the
22:03
Speaker 3: the enticement that comes with going to Newcastle. It's not
22:06
Speaker 3: the same money, but it also potentially decentivisers Newcastle as well.
22:13
Speaker 3: Because they're not going to get him when they thought
22:14
Speaker 3: they were fore he could be in the All Blacks
22:17
Speaker 3: till the back end of November and then you know,
22:21
Speaker 3: he goes up to Newcastle potentially late. So it significantly
22:26
Speaker 3: changes the complexion of that scenario for me.
22:28
Speaker 2: Is it still live that maybe he could go up
22:31
Speaker 2: and play for Newcastle for a season then push the
22:34
Speaker 2: you know, the back end of that contract after the
22:36
Speaker 2: World Cup.
22:36
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there's a lot of things on the table.
22:38
Speaker 3: You could potentially struck a compromise where yeah, maybe he
22:40
Speaker 3: goes up there for a season and then as available
22:42
Speaker 3: for the World Cup. And I think there's a potential compromise.
22:48
Speaker 3: It all depends how good his agents negotiating tactics are.
22:54
Speaker 2: Anything else on the score. Before we just wra wrap
22:56
Speaker 2: up with a bit of captaincy talk.
22:59
Speaker 3: I think, so do you do you have any qualms
23:02
Speaker 3: of five Crusaders?
23:04
Speaker 2: I always wanted more. Look, I didn't stick to my
23:07
Speaker 2: sword last. But I think there are certain players that
23:11
Speaker 2: were probably close to the cut, like a fee hockey
23:14
Speaker 2: or something like that. But you can't argue with the
23:17
Speaker 2: likes of Moireb and finnan an Oath that they've been
23:19
Speaker 2: outstanding all season long. Probably we signed the Crusaders that
23:24
Speaker 2: you know that the power balance, at least the depth
23:27
Speaker 2: they used to have in terms of being able to
23:29
Speaker 2: call on All Blacks has really shifted and maybe a
23:32
Speaker 2: little bit of a wake up call it Crusader's HQ.
23:35
Speaker 3: Yeah. The one thing we haven't mentioned Jamie Hannah is
23:37
Speaker 3: in as a replacement. Injury replacement well toop goes through
23:42
Speaker 3: concussion protocol, so a reward for a standout season.
23:46
Speaker 2: He's been very, very good this season and deserving of
23:49
Speaker 2: being around the team. Let's get into the captain c
23:53
Speaker 2: any speaking about ardisav being appointed the All Blacks captain.
23:57
Speaker 4: Yeah, look, it's you know, I'm really excited about it.
24:00
Speaker 4: Such a good man. Deeply care is very experienced, the
24:06
Speaker 4: highly respected. I reckon Ardie. He's not a massive talker,
24:12
Speaker 4: so he'll lead through his actions and certainly our recent
24:16
Speaker 4: time in Corbert, we made him captain for one game
24:19
Speaker 4: and just played through the roof, so he'll do a
24:23
Speaker 4: good job leading the guys and he'll lead through his actions.
24:26
Speaker 2: There we have it there. Any talking about Artie save
24:29
Speaker 2: as we touched on at the top, not really a
24:31
Speaker 2: huge surprise, but for the people that wanted him to
24:35
Speaker 2: be captain two years ago. Now Ardie save has finally
24:38
Speaker 2: ascended to that throne on a full time basis, and
24:43
Speaker 2: you know the challenges now. Give us a bit of
24:46
Speaker 2: that winder pacific a style leadership. He'm not saying he
24:49
Speaker 2: hasn't played well in recent times, but we saw what
24:51
Speaker 2: he could do as a leader while playing last year.
24:54
Speaker 2: More of that for the All Blacks please, Yeah. Absolutely.
24:57
Speaker 3: The big takeaway there for me was really talking about
25:00
Speaker 3: how he plays as captain and we have seen that,
25:04
Speaker 3: as you mentioned with Wuana with the All Blacks when
25:06
Speaker 3: he stepped in for Scott Burrett last year. When the
25:09
Speaker 3: stakes are high, when the pressure is on, when people
25:14
Speaker 3: are looking to him to lead, that's when Ardie tends
25:17
Speaker 3: to play his best. So I think the other thing
25:20
Speaker 3: with Ardia, I think he is quite high emotional EQ
25:25
Speaker 3: and I think he reads people very well. He connects
25:29
Speaker 3: with people, and I think he will bring that team
25:30
Speaker 3: together and I think it was a bit fractured for
25:34
Speaker 3: various reasons, certainly at the back end of last year,
25:38
Speaker 3: but it will be important to surround him with good
25:40
Speaker 3: people because he is a different style of leader.
25:42
Speaker 2: He is and they haven't announced vice captains stay for
25:45
Speaker 2: any about that today in the media conference and he said, well,
25:48
Speaker 2: you know, we want to build the leadership group and
25:51
Speaker 2: you know, maybe they have these discussions in the coming
25:53
Speaker 2: week once they gathered together. As of Wednesday, I don't
25:57
Speaker 2: know that you need vice captains necessarily. We had Scott
26:00
Speaker 2: Barrett having his brother Jordan, and obviously Ardia's vice captains.
26:05
Speaker 2: Maybe you have one, but I you know, I've donet
26:07
Speaker 2: necessarily think you need vice captains in a test scenario.
26:10
Speaker 3: I think you need one strong, clear captain and then
26:15
Speaker 3: a support group around them.
26:16
Speaker 2: Yeah.
26:16
Speaker 3: The other point to note with Ardi is he's just
26:18
Speaker 3: played eighteen months straight basically from Wana PACIFICA through to
26:23
Speaker 3: the All Blacks straight to Kobe, and there has been
26:27
Speaker 3: taught prior to this that he might even set out
26:30
Speaker 3: the July Test. I think it's really important that he
26:33
Speaker 3: started as captain. But Renny did mention today that he
26:38
Speaker 3: will need to be managed, that he may not play
26:41
Speaker 3: all the tests. So potentially you're looking at those bledders
26:44
Speaker 3: Low games somewhere around there where he may have a spell,
26:48
Speaker 3: because otherwise that might come back to bite him, particularly
26:51
Speaker 3: with things like the World Cup on the horizon.
26:53
Speaker 2: You need to get the sky right through to the
26:55
Speaker 2: World Cup France. He could obviously play in christ Church,
26:58
Speaker 2: maybe sits out Italy, but comes off the bench against
27:00
Speaker 2: Italy and then Ireland and then you know he doesn't
27:03
Speaker 2: need to play retour game in South Africa or so. Sure,
27:05
Speaker 2: no one will play retols game in So Africa. But
27:07
Speaker 2: there are ways throughout the year that you can manager
27:09
Speaker 2: in the breaks in between. But yeah, that has been
27:12
Speaker 2: the All Black squad for the first three games of
27:14
Speaker 2: the year, the Nation's Championship. We'll take a break, come back,
27:19
Speaker 2: let's Super Rugby Final. After this, you're back with rugby
27:23
Speaker 2: direct time now took the Super Rugby Final. Look a
27:28
Speaker 2: compelling performance from the Hurricanes, no two ways about it.
27:33
Speaker 2: They drove the Chiefs into the dirt and then some
27:37
Speaker 2: at Henry Stadium. This was as good a performance in
27:41
Speaker 2: a final I think that you could possibly want from
27:45
Speaker 2: a Hurricanes team.
27:47
Speaker 1: I was.
27:47
Speaker 3: It was magic to witness all leet. The only thing
27:49
Speaker 3: better would would be being there.
27:52
Speaker 2: I've got to be there.
27:54
Speaker 3: You got the witness Champagne footy. There's so many reasons
28:00
Speaker 3: that this was so good, Like the weather, for one,
28:03
Speaker 3: All right. It was. I think I saw on the television.
28:06
Speaker 3: It was sixty two kilometers in our but very gusty,
28:10
Speaker 3: extremely difficult, challenging conditions, and the Hurricanes just played ball
28:17
Speaker 3: in hand and that worked for them, the link play
28:20
Speaker 3: between backs and forwards, their attacking execution. They bullied the
28:25
Speaker 3: Chiefs and that was significant because of what the Chiefs
28:29
Speaker 3: did the week before to the Crusaders. And when you
28:32
Speaker 3: take a step back and look at the Hurricanes' playoff run,
28:35
Speaker 3: they wiped the floor with the Brumbies. The Blues actually
28:38
Speaker 3: got the closest to them, and then they put the
28:40
Speaker 3: biggest loss ever on the Chiefs. That was really humbling,
28:45
Speaker 3: embarrassing for the Chiefs on that stage, and it really
28:50
Speaker 3: started with Damien McKenzie's performance in that first half.
28:54
Speaker 2: It did, and his kicking was all over the show. Yes,
28:58
Speaker 2: he was playing into a breeze and I think sounds
29:02
Speaker 2: like Lou Jacobson picked the toss wrong when he won
29:05
Speaker 2: the toss in terms of deciding which way to go.
29:07
Speaker 2: He thought he was played, you know, with the breeze
29:10
Speaker 2: at their backs in the first half. They weren't. But
29:13
Speaker 2: the kicking was all askew and what you can probably
29:17
Speaker 2: forgive one or two eras in that sort of wind.
29:19
Speaker 2: You know, McKenzie kicks it and it goes back six
29:21
Speaker 2: seven meters on the first one. But he didn't learn
29:24
Speaker 2: from the way that the game was being played out
29:28
Speaker 2: in front of his eyes. He didn't change his tactics.
29:30
Speaker 2: The Chiefs as a hold and change of tactics, but
29:32
Speaker 2: your game driver at ten did not change their tactics.
29:35
Speaker 3: He kicked two restarts dead, one went short, He mistouched
29:38
Speaker 3: from penalties, got charged down, dropped a ball. I can't
29:44
Speaker 3: see how he can start at number ten for the
29:48
Speaker 3: All Blacks after that performance. There's only one performance, and
29:51
Speaker 3: he played well throughout the year, but just head to
29:55
Speaker 3: hear between him and Ruben Love, it's not necessarily a
29:58
Speaker 3: fair comparison in terms of the platforms. But those were
30:02
Speaker 3: individual errors from McKenzie and he did, as you say,
30:05
Speaker 3: did not adapt, and there's got to be some massive
30:08
Speaker 3: mental demons for him for the Chiefs after four straight
30:12
Speaker 3: lost finals now and yeah, bloody sweet for the Canes
30:16
Speaker 3: tench ten years a long time. I think they did
30:19
Speaker 3: it really well building that squad, but also bring in
30:22
Speaker 3: a lot of old boys like Dane Coles was heavily
30:24
Speaker 3: involved Christian Cullen, so they got the mix of that
30:27
Speaker 3: really were.
30:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, they did, and they'll have been the form team
30:30
Speaker 2: all season and well deserving of their win. You know,
30:34
Speaker 2: they just managed even though though clearly the bit of team,
30:37
Speaker 2: they just managed the final the thought really really well.
30:39
Speaker 2: You know, they got out to twenty six nil, took
30:41
Speaker 2: the penalty before half time to get out beyond four
30:44
Speaker 2: converted tries, and then after half time you know, I
30:47
Speaker 2: think John A. Gibbs said on the night, you know,
30:49
Speaker 2: if we got to twenty eight seven after halftime, maybe
30:51
Speaker 2: this is just a fraction of jar. They couldn't and
30:54
Speaker 2: they kept piling on the points and it was very
30:56
Speaker 2: very loud in the contest that the Chiefs did get
30:59
Speaker 2: over and it felt like, you know, at one point,
31:00
Speaker 2: you know that you're playing Jonoloma rugby. If you made
31:03
Speaker 2: and you've got the dodgy knockoff controller that came from
31:07
Speaker 2: five dollars from the warehouse, he's playing with the legitimate
31:10
Speaker 2: controller and yours is about a fraction a second slower,
31:14
Speaker 2: and you're trying to play but you can't you can't
31:15
Speaker 2: do anything about it. And the Chiefs were just you know,
31:19
Speaker 2: unable to stop what this Hurricanes wall in front.
31:22
Speaker 3: Of them, that's right, And you thought, yeah, okay, the
31:25
Speaker 3: second half, the Chiefs are going to come out, They're
31:27
Speaker 3: going to have the wind at their backs. They'll build
31:30
Speaker 3: a bit of momentum and just get some sort of
31:32
Speaker 3: foothold in the game. But it just never happened that
31:34
Speaker 3: they couldn't get anything going. They were shell shock rattled
31:39
Speaker 3: and yeah they had a few injuries. Yes, the Canes
31:42
Speaker 3: probably were more of fai with those conditions, but you
31:45
Speaker 3: still have to put it together on the night. So
31:49
Speaker 3: what a performance.
31:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard to analyze because it wasn't I.
31:52
Speaker 3: Don't think anyone any I don't know, right, you put
31:57
Speaker 3: them against Bordeaux to lose Northampton maybe, but on that night,
32:01
Speaker 3: particular night, in those conditions, the way they played, I
32:04
Speaker 3: don't think anyone stopping Hurricanes.
32:06
Speaker 2: No, it's really hard to analyze, isn't it. Sort Of
32:08
Speaker 2: it's like when the All Blacks, you know, go and
32:09
Speaker 2: torch somebody to World Cup and obviously they said highest
32:11
Speaker 2: stakes in terms of a Super Rugby final, but there's
32:14
Speaker 2: really little analyzed because the Chiefs were just never, never
32:16
Speaker 2: in the contest. And you mentioned you know, four straight
32:20
Speaker 2: final defeats and they're lost in varying ways. Got bulted
32:23
Speaker 2: by the Blues in twenty four either side, they got
32:26
Speaker 2: beaten and really tight of fears by the Crusaders. But
32:30
Speaker 2: this will sting probably the most out of the four
32:33
Speaker 2: and off the back of beating the Crusaders and humbling
32:36
Speaker 2: them the week before. This will live long in the
32:41
Speaker 2: craw for the Chiefs and I don't know where they
32:44
Speaker 2: go to from now, because yes they made the final
32:46
Speaker 2: on four separate occasions, but that was the furthest away
32:49
Speaker 2: from winning it. And look they've had the same sort
32:51
Speaker 2: of Johnny Gibbs is new to the head coaching role,
32:53
Speaker 2: but he's been around. They're set up for a season
32:55
Speaker 2: or two now. You know, Roger Randa has been their
32:57
Speaker 2: attack coach for a few seasons. A lot of the
32:59
Speaker 2: names have been there for a few years now. Maybe
33:03
Speaker 2: it requires some fresh thinking. I don't know.
33:05
Speaker 3: You don't get over there ever. I saw Stephen Donald
33:09
Speaker 3: in the build up to that game talking about how
33:12
Speaker 3: he relives the one final that he played in against
33:16
Speaker 3: when the Chiefs got smacked by the balls in South Africa.
33:19
Speaker 3: And it's not daily anymore, but it's still ever present
33:24
Speaker 3: and that sort of result you just don't get over.
33:27
Speaker 3: And on the flip side, it was imperative that the
33:30
Speaker 3: Caine sees that opportunity because they are losing some massive weapons.
33:34
Speaker 3: Warner Durns he would probably go close to MVP for
33:40
Speaker 3: the year. I say a wakle. I think there's at
33:44
Speaker 3: least ten players leavings along with Jason Holland, so there's
33:48
Speaker 3: going to be some big turnover in a team where
33:51
Speaker 3: continuity of that squad was the backbone. I think the
33:55
Speaker 3: Hurricanes also prove they had by far and away the
33:57
Speaker 3: best coaching team, and I think we will see a
34:01
Speaker 3: lot more of guys like Jamie McIntosh and Corey Jane
34:05
Speaker 3: in particular, and Clark Laidlaw. He's recommitted to the Hurricane
34:08
Speaker 3: for next year. But beyond the World Cup, you'd have
34:11
Speaker 3: to think that Scotland come knocking, you'd have to think.
34:13
Speaker 2: So I was gonna ask you whether the chances of
34:16
Speaker 2: Hurricanes dynasty here, but I think with the players leaving, look,
34:20
Speaker 2: they'll be there or there about some sure, because they've
34:23
Speaker 2: got regard and love, they've got Barrett, they've got you know,
34:27
Speaker 2: perhaps they've got do know they've got more, but you
34:29
Speaker 2: know they've got a lot of the back line sticking around,
34:31
Speaker 2: but it's the forwards like Flanders leaving, Walkerlea, Whdi leaving
34:36
Speaker 2: and Dunes obviously, as he touched on, So whether they
34:39
Speaker 2: can replace those players with light for like or even
34:41
Speaker 2: near light for like, probably not.
34:45
Speaker 3: I think they're still definitely the team to beat, but
34:48
Speaker 3: lock's probably the only the main concern. I think most
34:51
Speaker 3: of those other areas they have great depth. You think
34:53
Speaker 3: about Braden Yosse, Brad Shields are still there, pretty good
34:59
Speaker 3: depth across the board, but lock is generally quite thin
35:03
Speaker 3: within New Zealand rugby. Even the All Blacks depth has
35:06
Speaker 3: been tested currently when Scott Barron Fabian Holland are out
35:09
Speaker 3: and then you're starting to dig pretty deep. So I
35:13
Speaker 3: think the Hurricanes could struggle to find some locks and
35:16
Speaker 3: that potentially undermines one of their strengths, one of their
35:19
Speaker 3: massive improvements this year, which was their Type five, their
35:22
Speaker 3: set piece. So that's an area of concern, But elsewhere
35:27
Speaker 3: I don't have great concerns.
35:30
Speaker 2: I'm going to put you on the spot here, give
35:31
Speaker 2: me you three two ones. I assume they are all Hurricanes.
35:35
Speaker 3: Ruben Love that was a master class performance goal kicking,
35:40
Speaker 3: tactically triassists that the tray scored in the corner. That
35:44
Speaker 3: was brilliant. Jordi Barrett, that was his best game of
35:46
Speaker 3: the year, saved his best till last really stepped up.
35:49
Speaker 3: It was interesting to note that was his one hundred
35:51
Speaker 3: and twenty fifth game for the Hurricanes. He's waited that
35:53
Speaker 3: long for a title. And one point to Peter Luckeye,
35:57
Speaker 3: he was brilliant as well.
35:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to give three to Jordi Barrett. I
36:03
Speaker 2: think it was probably a toss up between him and
36:04
Speaker 2: Ruben Love, but being in terms of the MVP midle,
36:07
Speaker 2: which Love did get for the game, Love gets my
36:09
Speaker 2: two and and I was sourcing up between Roy Garden
36:12
Speaker 2: and Luckeye. But I'm gonna be a Roy go because
36:14
Speaker 2: you went like But that means that for here, finneng
36:17
Speaker 2: is our Rugby direct MVP middle for twenty twenty six. Congratulations.
36:21
Speaker 2: Fee should have actually brought a middle down to Paris North.
36:24
Speaker 2: I mean it would have been as just just as
36:25
Speaker 2: much as an All Black selection. I'm sure for FEI,
36:27
Speaker 2: but go the base winning. Yeah. Producer Mark Kelly, Rugby
36:32
Speaker 2: directs middle goes to.
36:34
Speaker 3: I'll tell you what, he's an All Black call up.
36:36
Speaker 3: But I think that'll that'll top.
36:37
Speaker 2: It feels like it, doesn't it. That feels like it. Liam,
36:40
Speaker 2: thank you as always for joining us on Rugby Direct.
36:42
Speaker 2: We're going to take the rest of the week off.
36:44
Speaker 2: We'll be back next week though, as we get into
36:46
Speaker 2: Test Week, the first test week of the year, the
36:49
Speaker 2: All Black's building out to play fronts and christ Treots
36:51
Speaker 2: look forward to catching it.
36:52
Speaker 3: The indeed and just shout out to Fielding Yellows today
36:57
Speaker 3: great great Wi Burgers great, just great to get back
37:01
Speaker 3: to grassroots footy and.
37:03
Speaker 2: You shout Ashley as well actually from the club who
37:06
Speaker 2: came over and see gooday and took a photo and
37:08
Speaker 2: city was a fan of the podcast, so great to
37:10
Speaker 2: catch up with him and also Patti Gao also a
37:12
Speaker 2: big fan of the Podcast's right. Good to catch up
37:14
Speaker 2: with you both, and we will catch you next week
37:16
Speaker 2: on Rugby Director. Thanks to Mark Kelly for producing We'll
37:20
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