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The MOVE Bombing · Conspiracy! The Show

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Sort Win True Insurance? Did I true the Truth? I'm
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: a check out both good True?
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Thing is the audis?
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Hey?
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Everybody, welcome to Conspiracy the Show. I'm your host Adam
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Todd Brown joining me special guest co host this week,
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Sliceberg Slim. How's it going? Say hello to the people?
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Is that people? What's up? Adam? How's it going?
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: I'm good man? How are you?
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: I'm trying tojust back to normal life. Today's the first
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: day I went to a combook stores since before COVID.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, Yeah, I'm going to the movies tomorrow. I'm
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: very excited about that. I've gone to the movies once,
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: but the movie sucked. Can I ask what AMC? They
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: brought a list back?
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you. I have stalking them, so I appreciate you.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: AMC is going nowhere if I have anything to do
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: with it. For people who are unaware of Sliceberg is
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: my co host on a podcast called Pod six that
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: you can hear on the Unpop's, Patreon and Supercast. It's
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: also a music producer does a bunch of the themes
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: you hear for the podcasts. And Uh, you've been on
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: this podcast before?
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Right? Uh? Yes, I think I believe.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: I don't remember what we were talking about. Something something
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: probably very grim and unhappy.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: I think I was. It was me, you and a
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Tief last time.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, everything a Tiff is on is depressing. So yeah, right,
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: so yeah, something something sad that's not going to change.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: This week we are talking about one of the saddest
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: moments in American history. Completely by coincidence, we are recording
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: this on the thirty six year anniversary of what we're
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: talking about today, which is the move bombing in Philadelphia.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: If you're not familiar with this story, buckle up. It
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: is crazy. Slice Berg. You were not familiar with this
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: story when I recruited you for this episode, right.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: It took me total surprise, no idea.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: And you watched the documentary. There's a few documentaries, but
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: there's one of the first ones was called Let the
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Fire Burn, and that's the one you watched last night, right, Yes,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: And you texted me and said fuck you for making
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: me watch this.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: Now. To be fair, I was passing that fuck your
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: mom my girlfriend told me to fuck me.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, Adam, Yeah, I mean you were planning
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: to watch Bordello of Blood, So I did fuck up
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: your night. For sure because that movie w oh I
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: got to make tonight. So before we get into it,
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: for people, what was your impression of the events in
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: this documentary.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: When I'm surprised myself never hearing of this, it almost
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: seems like a movie, Like it's it's unreal almost, it's
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: like a plot of a movie. Almost.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what, it sort of reminds me of
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: not white as bad, I mean maybe, but the Black
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Wall Street riot that happened in was that Tulsa where's
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: a bunch of angry white people just went and burned
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: down a whole section of Tulsa that was called the
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Black Wall Street for a reason. Nothing is ever called
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: the Wall Street of anything for bad reasons, even though
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Wall Street it's awful, right, what an irony? But yeah,
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: this is kind of the same thing. It's just that
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: this was even more sanctioned by the government.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Everyone in charge just made the wrong decision, Like everyone
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: just did everything possibly wrong. Everyone is even down from
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: moved themselves. I mean, I don't want to victim blame,
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: but they made it hard.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's gonna be a hard line to toe throughout
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: this because what happens to move is absolutely tragic. But
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: it would also have been absolutely tragic to have them
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: for neighbors, because holy shit, cut your neighbors a little slack.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, question, was there a reason that the children had
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: to be completely nude? I didn't understand.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: Here's the thing. I hope not. Actually, I hope there
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: was no reason the children were nude other than fuck
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: close their kids. What do they care?
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Because the kids just made that choice. They say, you
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: know what, maybe these we got these dogs.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: Here's the thing, though, we're not just going to talk
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: about the left the Fireburn documentary, but in that documentary
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: they interview one of the only survivors of the move bombing.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: There were two survivors, and one of them was a child,
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: and you can tell in that interview they're really trying
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: to get this kid to say that he was being
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: abused inside that house, and he never does. He likes
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: it when it comes up. Yeah, So, I mean, I
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: guess they just wanted to be naked. I don't know,
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: because it really didn't like that never is even suggested,
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: which I like because a lot of times with groups
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: like this you also hear and the leader had a
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: fourteen year old wife. In this case, there's not even
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: any of that. They're just terrible neighbors.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: You know. It's almost like it did It didn't even
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: factor into the story when the kids having no clothes,
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: It really was consequentially, it just happened to benked with dogs.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: So here, here's the here's the real question. Did it
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: need to be in that documentary?
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: But if it's not going anywhere, we could have cut
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: that whole visual. Yeah, yeah, they.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: Just they just kind of shoehorned that in. You're right,
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: that was the reason we're talking about Move. Even though
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: it is the anniversary. By the time this goes up,
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: the anniversary will have passed last week. But when I
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: was researching those Jonestown episodes, Move came up very briefly,
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: and the author of that Jonestown book called them a
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: creepy cult. And I never really thought of them as
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: a cult. I just thought of them as a group
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: who got bombed by the Philadelphia police. And I still
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: don't know if is accurate.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: You know what, I thought creepy cult too, Only I
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: just assumed when it came home with the kids, you know,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: and no clothes, that dogs like, oh, well, this is
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: a creepy cult. But then it makes a sharp turn
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: said not cult. Like I feel that the images of
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: the kids where they had to kind of maybe persuade
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: you to think it was something that it wasn't.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: I always feel like for a group to be a cult,
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: there has to be some degree of confinement, Like you
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: can't leave otherwise you're just in a group. Like the
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: Boy Scouts push a lot of shit that I don't
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: care about, and I would find weird if someone asked
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  Speaker 2: me to want to learn it. But you can leave
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  Speaker 2: the Boy Scouts if you're in it, So it's not
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: a cult. And this like they're weird. They're a strange bunch,
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: but they don't seem like they were abusive to each other,
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: which I feel like, also, you need you kind of
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: need that for a cult.
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  Speaker 1: You do two things. When I was a brief failed
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: boy Scout at my church, I could not leave, uh too.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: Just feels like a cultploitation? Is it a thing?
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: A little bit? Yeah? Oh yeah, now it is. Cult'sploitation
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: is a definite thing now because we've run out of
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: serial killers to celebrate in this country, so now we
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: got to celebrate the works of awful cults. That's why
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: there's all this Netflix series about them that makes sense
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: celebrate in the CIA's handiwork. So there's also a documentary
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: on HBO Max called Forty Years a Prisoner, which also
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: touches on the MOVE bombing, but focuses more on a
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: group called the Move nine who will talk about in
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: a minute. Actually should have read ahead in my notes.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about them right now. There are a group
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: of MOVE members who were imprisoned over a nineteen seventy
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  Speaker 2: eight police shootout, and they stayed in prison way longer
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: than anyone charged with the crime they were charged with.
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  Speaker 2: Should But we'll talk about the shootout later, So let's
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: talk about Move first. Let's talk about their beliefs, because
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: this is a group that still exists. You can go
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: to their website. It's on a move dot com if
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: you want to check it out for yourself. And these
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: are their teachings I guess from their own website, and honestly,
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: most of it doesn't really sound that crazy, and I
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: should mention I very much differentiate crazy from shit. I
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: wouldn't want to do. Like I know, there's a lot
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: of people that love nature and being outside and they're
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: not crazy. I just disagree. I just don't want to
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  Speaker 2: be out there with them, so right, So all right,
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  Speaker 2: let's go through the first one. Our religion. Life. This
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: is a quote. Each individual life is dependent on every
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: other life, and all life has a purpose. So all
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: living beings things that move are equally important, whether they
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: are human beings, dogs, birds, fish, trees, ants, weeds, rivers, wind,
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: or rain. Sounds good. Also becomes a huge problem when
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: it comes to their confrontation with the natives.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it does.
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  Speaker 2: At one point. Natural law. We believe in natural law
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  Speaker 2: the government of self. Man made laws are not really
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: laws because they don't apply equally to everyone, and they
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: contain exceptions in loopholes. I fucking love this last line
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  Speaker 2: so much. Natural law says that when you see something
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: getting too close to your eye, you will blink, whether
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: you are a German shepherd or a Supreme Court justice.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Fuck. Yeah, you know what if that was their only tenant,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: it had been perfect, you just left it at that.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Oh it's been so good, you can get behind it.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: I feel like there's room for this next one too, though.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: Self defense. All living things instinctively defend themselves. This is
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: a god given right of all life. If a man
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: goes into a bear's cave, he violates and threatens the
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: bear's place of security. The bear will defend his home
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: by instinctively fighting off the man and eliminating him. The
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: bear is not wrong because self defense is right.
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  Speaker 1: No one. Is that a great teaching. It's followed by
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: a great example.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: That it's an amazing example. It's better than what my
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: example would have been, which is forever and always stay
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: out of the ocean that does not belong to us.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: I guess if you're on a boat, you can be
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: in the ocean, I guess. But other than that, no way.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: I love when people are like, you got as much
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: chance of getting struck by lightning as you do by
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: getting bit by a shark. It's like, yeah, because I'm
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: on land, that's why I'm not in I have zero
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: chance of getting bit by a shark. Actually, I have
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: way more chance of getting struck by lightning. Right and wrong.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: The fact that something is legal under the system's laws
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: doesn't make it right. Slavery was legal, Killing Native Americans
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: and stealing their land was all done legally. John Africa
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: taught us that what is right applies equally across the board.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: If something is right, it's right for all of life
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: with no separations. I should mention John Africa is the
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: founder of this group. We'll get to their background in
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: a second. And yeah, there's a lot more on the
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: website about their kind of beliefs and their work and
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: who they are and what they do, and yeah, go
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: check it out if you want more information. But that's
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: kind of the broad overview of what this group believes.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: And again, doesn't sound bad on paper, but when it's
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: being put into action in your closely confined neighborhood, becomes
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: a whole different thing.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it did.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: If any group should have been the one to just
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: go out in the middle of nowhere and build a
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: huge fucking compound, this was the one. They didn't have guns.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: I mean they had a few guns, but who who
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: doesn't have a few guns in Philadelphia. But they didn't
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: have They weren't like stockpiling weapons, they weren't abusing anybody.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: They just were bad neighbors.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, they should have ended some piece of
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: land somewhere like they They weren't meant to live amongst
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: others who weren't moved members move when he works with moves.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a weird choice to reject technology and modern
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: society the way they did and then set up shop
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: in the fresh Prince of bel Air's hometown.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: So that part when they show them teaching the children,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: like what do I guess? They point towards the camera
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: say what is this? They say technology and they'll harm you.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was Also they kind of tow a line
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: there because there's no like electricity or heat or anything
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: in the house. But they do drive cars, which.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: So which one is it?
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: And here's the thing. If there's one thing I know
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: about Philadelphia, people are tooling around on horses in Philadelphia
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: all the fucking time. Like there's documentary. Yeah, there's documentaries
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: about it.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: You mean, like not just cops, like just average citizens.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: Sliceberg, not just average citizens, Black citizens. It's called Fletcher
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Street Urban Riding Club. Google it. Look at the images.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: It looks like it kind of looks like The Walking
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: Dead because everyone looks super modern. But also they're on
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: horses in the middle of the city. Pretty funny.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: That the thing.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, they could have got horses, they didn't have
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: to have cars. But whatever, we're not here to criticize them.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: We're here to criticize the police.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Is correct.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: So let's talk about a little bit of the background
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: of this group. We'll link to everything we're talking about.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: There's a couple of really good resources for if you
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: just want a quick rundown about the history of MOVE.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: One is at Philadelphia Encyclopedia dot org slash archives slash
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: move and the other is a Penn State project with
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: a URL that is way too long to bother reading.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: You won't remember it or write it down. We'll link
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: to them both, So let's go through a little bit
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: of it. This group emerged in the early seventies as
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: the American Christian Movement for Life or the Christian Life Movement,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: was founded by a guy named Vincent Leiphart aka John Africa.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: He was born into a huge family during the Depression,
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: served in the Korean War, and when he came home
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: from the Korean War, took a shot at an interior
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: designed career in New York City, which was not a
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: twist I saw coming in this dude's background at all.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: That was it was different, especially at that time because
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: the Korean War, I mean it never ended technically, but
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: I mean that was done by the fifties, who even
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: knew interior design was a career. Was he the first?
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: Was he the first interior designer?
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: How is that a thing that even get a position?
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Let loan for like a black person. It's like, yeah,
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: pretty advanced, but it doesn't work right there.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: He ends up not becoming an interior designer and instead
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: returns to Philadelphia and in the sixties he develops this
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: philosophy of life that centered around the belief that the system,
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: which he defined as man made constructions of law, government,
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: and industry, was the source of all problems. And here's
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: the thing, yep, I think I agree with that.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he had, he was onto something.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: He wrote the foundational text of the group, which at
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: various points has been called the Book of Guidelines, the
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Book the Guidelines, and the Teaching of John Africa as
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Part's interesting. At the time he wrote them, he was
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: functionally illiterate, so he dictated the words to a University
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: of Pennsylvania social worker named Donald Glassie. This is a
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: three hundred page text. I'm not lying. I would rather
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: type it than be the one who has to say
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: it all.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's a lot.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: As people who record podcasts like you get through an
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: hour of one of these, and it's like, oh, thank god,
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: that's over.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Is about was to quickly learn how to read? Had
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: no choice?
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess this was quicker.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: When I do solo podcasts, once I hit like the
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: thirty minute mark, I'm like, kill me, someone kill me.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Cia not intervene right now, and my misery please, They're
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: just gonna let this come out. Huh. All right, here's
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: where we get into the part where it's not bad.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: It's just not for me. It talked about the importance
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: of scavenging. I'm posting eating raw foods and exercise. I
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: can get behind exercise. We should all do that eating
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: raw foods. If science got on television tomorrow and was like,
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: the world is going to end in twenty five years
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: if we don't all start eating raw foods right now,
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: I'd be like, let's make these twenty five years count
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: because I'm not eating raw food Yeah. The group adopted
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: the name MOVE in nineteen seventy two. It's an acronym
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: that means move in other words, not an acronym. They
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: just capitalize the word to make it look cool, like
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: every indie band today.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: I was sure it meant something, but no I.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: Did so, Hey beag it a raw real quick? Did
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: you hear? They asked a young I think was his name,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: Birdie Africa, the young kid. Yeah, he mentioned that they
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: gave the kids raw chicken. Get the fuck out of
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: here with that.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that that right there.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Ofss the the least rosting to eat.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if if the if the police we were pitching
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: shutting this group down, that's the role. That's the one
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: point where I'd be like, all right, you at least
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: got to get those kids out of there. I also
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: like the part where Birdie Africa said that the adults
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: didn't eat raw food because they weren't used to it.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: That I don't know, that seemed that seemed a little shady.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: It's like, here's your carrot. I am gonna throw down
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: on some pizza rolls, thank you very much.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: Because I'm not used to it, but you will be.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: You'll get used to it. Maybe we're just with the
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: wall seeing what sticks.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: I'm already an adults, but you're a kid to go
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: into this raw chicken taste.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: It's too late for me. My arteries are trash, but
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: you're feat with the raw future. So this group they
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: own properties in Rochester, New York, but lived communally primarily
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: in West Philadelphia, born and raised on the playground most
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: of my days. Honestly, the opening lines of the theme
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: from The Fresh Prince of bel Air do work if
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: you apply them to MOVE. You just have to think
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: of the couple of guys who are up to no good,
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: who start causing trouble in the neighborhood as the police.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: When I read your notes, I thought about it. It
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: almost be my mind. I yes, I mean the rest
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: of it, it almost sank up perfectly.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: And uh yeah, I don't blame them for not living
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: in upstate New York. That place is fucking crazy. You
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: think Philadelphia is racist, they upstate New York. They would
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: have just bombed the whole town of Rochester to get
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: rid of the st surprise they haven't. Now, let's talk
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: about some of Move's movements. In nineteen seventy four, the
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: group occupied a three and a half story Victorian house
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: and eventually an adjoining house in the Powellton Village neighborhood
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: in West Philadelphia. Was there operational headquarters in living space
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: startups call it an incubator. They operated a car wash
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: and did odd jobs for elderly people around the neighborhood
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: earn money house heated by wood burning stove. Children homeschooled,
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: which I don't normally criticize someone for choosing to homeschool
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: their kid, But the reason MOVE homeschooled their kids is
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: because they specifically wanted them not to learn to read
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: and write, because they viewed that as a false education.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: So in that case, but you.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Have to replace that with something. Yeah, you can't just
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: den if you want to take it away, then what
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: are you putting in the educations? That's that's not fair.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: And when I heard that, I was like, did the
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: government start this? Who would they would want that for people?
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Why would they? Because they themselves, I'm assumes some of
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: the MOVE members themselves are literate and can read and write,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: So why would you reset your children's and not?
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: And they and most of the write ups about this
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: group it says John Africa was functional illiterate at the
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: time he wrote that text. Does that mean he did
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: learn to read and write at some point?
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Right? Why would you say at the time? Right?
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah? And I guess this whole belief system, wouldn't it.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: It's shocking to me that we are finding so many
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: conflicts within the teachings of a devoutly religious group. Yeah,
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: normally religious groups absolutely stick to everything they say crazy,
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: but still don't drop a bomb on them. God damn it. Yeah,
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: we're getting there. So let's talk about the neighbors. What
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: ends up? I just I will say this a few
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: times throughout this podcast. What ends up happening to Move
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: is a tragedy and one of the darkest periods in
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: American history. That said, boy, were they terrible neighbors. My god, Powellton,
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: the first neighborhood they set up in it was a
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: relatively progressive neighborhood. So Move seemed like a good fit
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: at first. But the thing is Move didn't just oppose
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: the system. They opposed societal structure in general. Case in point,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: garbage collection, that is structure. Move did not have their
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: garbage collected. They just tossed it in the backyard as
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: like a crude form of composting.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: That couldn't have been an endgame. It's not a good end.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Game, no like, And so obviously it smelled. And as
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: someone who at one point when I had a studio
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: in Burbank failed to take the trash out in a
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: timely manner. Over the course of a couple days. I
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: know what happens when you just let trash sit around.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: It attracts roaches. And I learned that lesson really hard
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: as soon as I had the studio, and then from
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: there I just took the trash out every night. So
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: they were taking the trash out every night out to
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: the backyard and letting it pile up, and so it
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: attracted roaches and attracted rats. But remember we read that
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: belief at the beginning of the episode all living things
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: are equal, So that meant those rats and roaches deserve
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: to be there, and they would not do anything to
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: remove the rats and roaches or the garbage pile.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: See that's that's weird because you say they desire to
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: be there, but in that case, they're only there because
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: of the trash you left for them. So it's like,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: are you watch you wait to feed them?
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: Slice perg. That's constructs of your world, man.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: You're right, I'm I'm thinking in the box.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, in the box man. So this part's crazy too.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: They also took in a large number of stray animals,
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: and these animals eventually they accumulate enough that they form
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: a pack and they just let it wander freely around
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: the city.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Again, is that a huge developing dog soldiers? Like, what
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: are you doing these packages? You can't just make these
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: groups and just send them free, Like what do you
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: are you doing? These dogs? Yeah? They part of are
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: they moved dogs?
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: They all had dreadlocks.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, you should have did that, Like you're
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: gonna spend a message like don't just be creative.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, dread those dogs up. Yeah, that's the thing, Like
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: instead of trying to like slowly spread their message and
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: hope people catch on and do it from sort of
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: a remote place, it's like they just set up in
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: the middle of the city and we're like, all right,
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: everyone is going to have to take to how we
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: live or you're fucked. And seems like a bad approach
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: you want to build. Like here's the thing. When you're
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: in a black neighborhood and you have built up less
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: goodwill than the police, that's a problem because people immediately
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: immediately start going to the police in this neighborhood in general,
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: they mentioned in one of the articles that we read
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: for this that in this neighborhood specifically, they viewed the
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: mayor Frank Rizzo as just a straight up racist.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: How that dude, I could have believed that the shitty
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: was saying, oh yeah, and in the eighties like I didn't.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: I was saying, the eighties were fucked up. That's crazy.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Seventies and eighties were crazy. Like nineteen seventies New York.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: I don't seem escape from New York shit, but it
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: was New York still open. So yeah. Because of all
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: of this, Powellton residents, who again generally opposed the city government,
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: start complaining to the city government about Move, and that
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: prompts a group of health inspectors to show up at
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: the Move house on May twentieth, nineteen seventy seven. They
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: were met on the porch by MOVE members brandishing rifles.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: This is an important point because if you watch the
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: Let the Fire Burn documentary, you'll get a glimpse at
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: the kind of weapons this group was toting around, and
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: they look like the weapons of a group that has
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: a wood burning stove in their home, Like they would
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: accuse this group of having like automatic weapons. And then
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: like the rifles they were holding here looked like civil
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: war muskets. They were just trying to like show off.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: They weren't right, It wasn't really just threat but this
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: somehow turned into a ten month standoff where move members
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: Barrick hated themselves inside and police maintained a constant presence
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: outside for ten months, Like will you just throw the
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Will you just throw the trash away? Like you know,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: that's what everyone living in that neighborhood was, like, fucking
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: just throw the trash away, It's all we want. And
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: maybe maybe train that pack of wild dogs, Yeah that
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: you let run rampant through the neighborhood.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: If I want to throw the trash away and train
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: the dogs to take the trash to a dumbstore landfill.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this is like I wouldn't ever accuse this
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: group of being affiliated with the government because of how
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: things end, but I will say that this would be
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: a brilliant thing for a government hoping to break up
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: mildly affluent to affluent black neighborhoods.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: I thought about that, like, it wasn't what a way
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: it ended, Like, say, this could have been something. Yeah, no,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: the way it did it wasn't the government.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: But no, definitely not. But I wouldn't be surprised if
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: the government was likeh should we try this? Should we
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: just send a crazy cult into every well off black neighborhood,
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: so everyone moves. So in March nineteen seventy eight, Mayor
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: Frank Rizzo obtained an order to blockade the move house,
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: cut off water, and prevented anyone from getting supplies to
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: the house. Here's a quote from Frank Rizzo. A small
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: vocal minority among us seeks to destroy the heritage of
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: seventeen seventy six. I wonder what he means by that.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: That has to be one of the most coded, loaded,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: dog whistling, super racist forefather bullshit. I've heard like that
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: means something. There's like a call to arms or something.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a clip of this moment in the Let
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: the Fire Burned documentary. And even though I watched it
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: last night and I know there's not I still when
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: I replay this scene from the documentary, in my head,
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: I see a Confederate flag in the background, but there
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: wasn't one in the documentary. It's just, oh there should
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: have been.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: I that's just how good his words were. It fasted
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: there for you.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, me.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Makes a a very flag a pin for your eyes,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: those words.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: It probably does. And so they do this this blockade.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: He goes in and basically blocks off access to the
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: move house, but it also blocks off access to the
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: entire block that the Move House is on. So now
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: these residents who just wanted Move to clean up their
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: trash and not let the dogs out, now they have
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: to get police escorts just to and from their house.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: So it just made it worse for them. And eventually
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: an agreement was worked out where MOVE would surrender their weapons,
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: allow an inspection of the house, and leave by August first.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: In exchange, the city agreed not to arrest members who
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: didn't have warrants and to expedite trials of jailed members.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: Move violated the agreement by staying at the Powellton home
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: after August first.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, so I have a question. Yes, I kind of
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: wish they didn't mess that agreement up because I really
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: want to know what if the cops would have kept
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: their word, you know what I mean?
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Or if Yeah, that's the thing, like by being the
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: side that violated the agreement, like.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: You kind of forced I hate to say they forced
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: their hand, but like now you know, like now you
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: escalated it. It sucks.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, who knows if the police were actually going to
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: follow through, Maybe they were gonna gonna do him like
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: Ray Allen at the end of he got game and
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: uh not let dad out of prison. That's a deep
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: spike Lee cut everybody listeners. But yeah, because they violated
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: the agreement, it gave kind of just gave the police
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: a mandate to do something a little more extreme. And
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: oh boy on the morning.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: There's a reason. I was like, could y'all be there's
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: a reason they will let them in, like were maybe
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: they didn't want him in there for a reason.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, they were health inspectors. It sounds like they
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: definitely didn't want health inspectors in their house, not in
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: that backyard at least, right because that was probably going
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: to get the house condemned, at which point they would
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: have had to leave. So this was a pretty fair agreement, Like,
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: it's a decent settlement to it, especially a ten month
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: standoff and you're not getting arrested if you didn't have
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: warrants before.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I kinda yeah, I want why did they not
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: take the deal?
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just it's one of those moments where you're like, oh,
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: this didn't have to go this way. But still it
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: doesn't justify what the police end up doing.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Right, that's the worst part. You have to say that.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, yes, yeah, they should took the deal, but no,
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: it should have ended this way.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: And so on the morning of August eighth, police with
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: bullhorns surrounded the move home and demanded that the occupants
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: come out. When they didn't, the police bulldozed a wooden
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: barricade that had been constructed in front of the house.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: A cherry picker removed the wood slats mounted on the windows,
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: and then they used high pressure hoses to blast thousands
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: of gallons of water into the house.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: What is the official weapon of races everywhere?
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it very much is, especially this Philadelphia police. They
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: love firing a firefighter hose at a house.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: That should like a misuse of firefighter equipment. It shouldn't
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: be used. You shouldn't be able to use it on people. Yeah.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: What if there was a fire nearby and you're.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Always saw that fucking water on a house.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yet you're you're hoarding all the water to settle
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: an episode of fear Thy Neighbor on Investigation Discovery. I
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: can calm down.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: That's crazy.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: So a shootout ensues and police officer James Ramp was killed.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: Two other officers and three firefighters were wounded, and the
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: police finally cleared the house using tear gas, making sure
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: to violently beat move member Delbert Africa in the process.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: And this is a beating that was.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: Some bullshit, like like what the fuck was that about?
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: Like that was a straight meat like they hate MOVE,
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: like they couldn't wait to get their hands in the
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: movement and just beat the shit out of them.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: And they they play a clip where one of the
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: cops is like, yeah, we hit them on the head
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: with a metal helmet once. But a Philadelphia Inquirer was
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: filming and they like they were coming up taking turns,
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: stomping on this dude and beating this dude.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: But that's the worst part about it. He said we
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: hit him when they heard with a metal helmet once,
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Like that's like saying, you shot somebody, but they're not
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: telling them not to that, or we come into pieces.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah that's not all you did.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: I like the way the documentary presents it too, because
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: when he's saying that, they show this clip where you
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: can just sort of see the helmet flying through the air,
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: but it's obscured. It's obscured by this truck. So you're
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: like huh. I wonder if they did really beat him,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: and then like ten seconds later it's just them standing
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: over him, stomping the guy. It's like, oh yeah, they
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: beat the shit out of this dude. But if you
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: can believe this, three of the cops were arrested and
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: tried for this, and they were acquitted on all charges,
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: even though there was videotaped evidence. In what world does
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: that happen?
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, it happens so in this even back then
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: with our minor technology, somehow we got to hold a
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: straight video and they're like, I can't make out what happened.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, not guilty.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that, like I could see that having been like
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: the first Rodney King incident, if not for everything else
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: that happened, right, Because when you take everything the police
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: did to this group into account, beating up one guy
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: is kind of minor, so it like it's like it
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: just got overshadowed, but it really is the probably the
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: first example of a police beating being caught on film
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: Definitely.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: Meanwhile, the cops get acquitted on all charges, but eleven
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: move members were tried on charges of murder, aggravated assault,
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: and conspiracy. And I should clarify third degree murder, which
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: is the baby murder, not murdering babies, but it's the
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: baby of murder. Right, and Move argued that they didn't
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: kill Ramp and that he was actually killed by friendly
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: fire from his own police, and that the evidence of
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: this was covered up when the city immediately bulldozed the house.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: And I mean, it is weird that they bulldozed that
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: house that quick. They bulldozed it by the night of
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: this shootout.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: I believe that because Move didn't have the technology technology
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: one or the fire pavo to this kind of shootout.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: So it's like I've been just kind of sitting They're
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: just sitting there while the getting fired upon. I don't
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: think they've returned, probably no more than maybe four or
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: five shots at best.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, they it's the way they bulldozed that house.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: You have to take into account. They they were obviously
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: considering that a crime scene. They're saying a murder happened
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: from inside that house, and you bulldoze the crime scene. Nope. Yeah,
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: that's uh yeah, that is that is not a thing.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: Very so. In May nineteen eighty nine of the defendants
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: were found guilty and sentenced to prison terms ranging from
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: thirty years to one hundred years for third degree murder.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: And the obvious question posed by a MOVE member in
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: the Let the Fireburn documentary, how do nine people kill
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: one person in a shootout?
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: For a good question there, like, that's why.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: Firing squads work the way they do, Like everyone shoots,
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: so no one really knows who killed the person, so
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: you don't have to live with that guilt all your life.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: But they're sure that nine people fired the one bullet
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: that killed this guy.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: Very suspicious, this is a magic bullet, But the one
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: that killed Kennedy.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: We do accept that answer as a government, that's for sure.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: So this group came to be known as the Move nine,
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: and in the years following moves protests focused on getting
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: the Move nine out of prison. We haven't mentioned their
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: protest yet. That's also a thing because it plays pretty
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: heavily into what happens next. Basically, they employed this technique
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: called strategized profanity, which involved showing up in public like
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: they would go to zoos because they were big animal
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: rights people. They would show up at courthouses and they
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: would show up with bullhorns and not only would they
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: shout their demands and protests and rants. They would just
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: lace in profanity at every point possible, and it's kind
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: of funny to watch because that is I mean it's
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: a peaceful protest. I mean it's an assault on our
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: delicate sensibilities. They were actually some of them were funny,
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Like there was one where a guy just would not
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: stop saying motherfuckers. Yes, yeah, that that dude was great.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to assume that someone's in there, Like
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: I'm jumping ahead a little bit, but to the actual place,
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: the actual compound before it got got blown up, it
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: had the loud speaker outside of it. Yeah, so I'm
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: assuming at twenty four to seven there's a guy out
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: there just holding a mic, just letting their rip, well
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: everything every crazy shitting and think let's just just go.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: That's kind of the problem because after this nineteen seventy
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: eight shooting, they end up relocating in nineteen eighty two
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: to a home on Osage Avenue in West Philadelphia owned
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: by John Africa's sister Luise James, and they continue to
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: demand that the Move nine be released, and no one
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: was paying any attention or responding at all. So in
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: late nineteen eighty three, they put a loud speaker outside
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: their house and just broadcast their demands on a loop
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: twenty four hours a day. So you're living in this neighborhood,
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: which again this is like a middle class these are
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: middle class black homeowners. Basically, you know, it sucks.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: I can't speak for all black people, but I will
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: speak for all black people and say we would rather
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: than not call the cops of the black people sorately
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: had their hands pretty much tied with this situation. Yeah,
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: they didn't make any friends with the neighborhood. They didn't
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: try to recruit. They were just whether they were like
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: isolated and just didn't try to build relationships in the community.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: That didn't help them.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they didn't try to earn any goodwill at all
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: with their neighbors, which I mean, it's a black neighborhood.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: You could probably recruit some of them to your cause
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: if it used them. Yeah, but instead they set up
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: this fucking loud speaker. And now those neighbors they are
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: not about that shit at all. So they start complaining
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: a lot. And there's a new mayor by this point,
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: Mayor W. Wilson Good, Philadelphia's first black mayor, and he
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: wanted no part of another violent confrontation with move, so
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: he didn't really do anything to address the neighbor's complaints.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: He was just like, oh, can that just work itself out? Please?
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: I hate this guy. Yeah, many reasons, but I'll say.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: That, yeah, he's a real piece of shit. I will Men,
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: we've been talking about to Let the Fire Burn documentary.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: It's kind of hard to find right now, but if
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: you have a library card, you can watch it for
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: free on a site called canopy dot com without ads.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: I was sure there's gonna be ads every fifteen minutes,
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: but nope.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty sweet. Yeah it was. That's kind of cool.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: I never heard of that site. And they got they
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: got a bunch of shit that you can't find anywhere else.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: Just get a library card. You should have one anyway.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: What if you're homeless someday?
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: All right?
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: So yeah, you can also tell how put off by
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: this the neighbors were because not only do they call
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: the police, they also testify at a hearing later where
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, uh, what happened to them was bad.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: My house got burned down. But you don't understand the
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: garbage man, the fucking garbage the around the clock messages.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: It drove people crazy. Yeah, and that's what I think
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: is most worth watching in the Let the Fire Burn documentary.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's a good documentary in general, but you
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: get to see these neighbors testify and talk about their
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: experience living in this situation, and it really does at
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: least make it clear that the neighbors in this even
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: though they're the ones who called the police or notified officials,
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: they're not really the enemy here. I feel like there
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: is no blame to go around for the neighbors.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: I agree.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, someone was going to call the police.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: Sure. Hi.
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: We're two non doctors.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: I'm Liz Meely, I'm Maria Shahata.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: We have a podcast.
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: I don't know how we got it.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: Well, we're comedians.
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: We stopped getting actual stage time, so we turn to
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: the internet.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: We have a lot of questions about health.
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: We talk about what we want to know more about,
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: and then we ask our fans to tell us if
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: we're right. And we're very rarely right.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: We're never right, and we've been learning a lot through Google.
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: Our first episode is about Maria having missophonia to me,
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: discussing aslexia, stuff that people feel like they know a
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: little bit about and want to know more about to us,
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: discovering stuff neither of us knew much about, like ASMR.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: My mom's on the show. My mom is a veterinarian.
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure she's going to replace us.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: At some point.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: We are on the unpops network.
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: They saw our potential and was like, we think someday
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: you guys will actually have value.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: Which is an unpopular opinion. If you're not doctors, don't
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: don't liten to us.
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: Seriously, guys, we don't know what we're talking about.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: So they start complaining and nothing's getting done because this
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: new mayor doesn't want that confrontation. So they take their
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: grievances directly to the governor, guy named Richard Thornberg, and
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: they sent him this statement. We are here to let
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: the governor know about the disquietude and general state of
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: terror we are forced to live under by the Move organization.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: We want the governor to know that, regardless of whatever
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: may have happened in the past, today, Move is a
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: clear and present danger to the health and safety of
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: our entire block. We also want the governor to know
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: that we have been to our elective representatives in the
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: city and state government, but to date, nothing of any
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: consequence has been done. We are now asking Governor Thornberg
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: to step in and deal with this situation.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: Whoops, that letter is what that letter is? Literally caught
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Blanche when saw that letter, and then it was like, okay,
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: let's fuck some up.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: Very much so, because that's really all they needed, because
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: the mayor didn't want to be the one to say, yeah,
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: this is a huge problem. We got to deal with it.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: But once the people are saying it, yeah, that's it,
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: it's a whole other thing. And little sidebar here I
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: knew I recognize the name Dick Thornberg from somewhere. He
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: is the governor that was caught in this corruption scandal
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: where he was using state funds to pay for his
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: wife's travel and that ends up being exposed by a
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: guy named Bud Dwyer, who was kind of forced to
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: expose it because it was his job and someone brought
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: it to him and he was like, well, I'm the
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: accountant here, I gotta say something. And thorn Berg basically
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: framed Bud Dwyer in retaliation for that, and things spun
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: so far out of control for Bud Dwyer. People who
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: know the name know what's coming next. He shot himself
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: in the head during a live televised press conference, and
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: that was in large part due to the actions of
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: Governor Richard Thornberg. So fuck this guy in his face anyway.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: Thornburg finally forces Mayor Good to act, and the plan
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: is to one remove the children from the home on
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: the grounds that they were being illegally held from school,
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: and two execute arrest warrants on four move members. And
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: so around six am, Police Commissioner Gregory Sambor shouts from
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: a bullhorn that the residents of the home have fifteen
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: minutes to vacate. And he doesn't just shout that, he says, move,
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: this is America. You have to come out.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: It's like, fuck you, yes this yeah.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: And so that didn't happen, and a shootout ensues, in which,
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: according to the Philadelphia Special Investigation Commission, police fired over
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: this is a quote, over ten thousand rounds of ammunition
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: in under ninety minutes at a row house containing children
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: end quote. And yep, they shot that fucking place up
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: knowing there were kids. That they were there to get
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: the kids, which that which that is the same thing
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: as Waco, where they were like, all right, we got
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: to come in and get these kids. Better, throw some
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: flash grenades in the room, and of course they break
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: out the fire hoses.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Again, Is it just knew it was that gunfight? Did
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: it seem one sided this one? Like like literally just
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: they were just shooting at them while they were just
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: getting shot.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: At I kind of feel like that happened in both cases.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: I honestly wonder if Move was doing any shooting at all.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: And how'd you feel about the footage of the room.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: That's why I say it's like a movie because the
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: reporting here, these fucking reporters give these guys fucking Emmys
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: purple hearts. Whether fucking your reporters rescin a life for
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: this shit? Yeah, you guys a duck and low on
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: live television on a fucking shootout.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: There's one where just a ton of shots start going
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: off and the guy turns around and goes sounds like
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: they're shooting, and the police are like, move, what you're
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: doing and he's like all right, all right. Then he
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: starts trying to talk on the camera again, like you
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: were going to get shot.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: These reporters went so hard in the paint and who
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: got the footage of a cop car driving up popping
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: this trunk delivering more AMMO to his buddies. Yeah, the
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: fuck is that?
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: That's crazy shit because what happened is they they vacated
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: that entire block before they did this, so there were
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: police and reporters in people's houses like filming and shit.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: And yeah, the footage of this moment and the nineteen
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: seventy eight shootout both the footage in this documentary is insane,
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: like they they found a lot and it is fascinating
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: to watch.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: Like you mentioned that happening now today a low TV
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: like that would people lose this shit?
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: Oh, the protests, the pro like that's the thing. News
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: like this when you're dealing with mainstream media, especially when
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: you when you're getting into like New York Times and
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: shit like that, if they don't, if they decide not
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: to cover something, it's not gonna become big news. Like
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: the McDonald's me too strikes, the mc two strikes h
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: None of the big outlets covered that, so most people
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: don't know that McDonald's was the target of the first
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: organized me too action against a corporation in America. No
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: one covered it because McDonald spread so much fucking ad
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: money around, who's gonna spit in their face? So like
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: stuff has to get up to the right channels before
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: it spreads around. And I imagine like, unless you were
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: watching news at the right time, this probably just didn't
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: I didn't hear about I was alive in nineteen eighty five.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: I was nine, I was four.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: But I just feel like this, this should have been
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: I feel like this should we should have like every
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: year remember this or something like so it never happens
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: again in something.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we should have been taught this in school, for sure,
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: in our class about the government overstepping their bounds. That's
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: definitely what this is. So so this shootout ensues, They
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: fire water cannons. Of course, none of this is working,
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: So this drags on until late in the afternoon, and
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: ironically named Mayor Good at this point authorizes the release
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: of a two pound satchel bomb composed of tovax and
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: C four explosives from a police helicopter onto the fortified
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: bunker on the roof, which we should point out was
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: made of wood. And we didn't mention that. That's another
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: thing that made the residents didn't like move at one
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: point puts a bunker with gun turrets in it up
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: on the roof.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: So not that they light us at all, but des
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: roite my only opportunity for this. But later when they're
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: in court and they have to they have a model
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: of the building, the compound. Yeah, and they're demonstrating the
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: court hot of cops and what they did, didn't they
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: compound like the dopest place st you've ever seen.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: It looked amazing, even that bomber. I was like, I'd
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: put that bunker on my roof.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: Imagined if they had the speaker syste built in a
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: microphone the trunk through it to you have the action figures.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, like snake Mountain. Oh that's so dope.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: I'd have Christmas lights in there. Stack in nineteen eighties
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: porn on paper living like what if? That's just what
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: it was. They're like these holes, it's for weed, smoke,
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: Calm down, that makes sense. We're not trying to hot
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: box our homeschooled children. They're not alloud weed. We are
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: because we're used to it.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: They're not, yeah, chicken, but yeah, they drop.
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: A bomb on this huge wooden structure on top of
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: the camera on camera, on camera like they're proud of it, like.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: Watch what we can't do that? That's wow.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: And what's really crazy is when this bomb goes off,
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: heated metal fragments from that bomb penetrate a gas can
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: on the roof and that ignites gasoline vapors and sets
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: off a fire within seconds of that bomb going off,
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: but it gets worse. Instead of fighting that fire, both
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: the police and fire commissioner decided it would be better
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: to let the fire burn as a tactical weapon meant
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: to get the residents to evacuate.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: So that point they said, they literally said it fucking kids,
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: that's what he said.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it is again a lot of parallels to Waco,
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: except in the case of Waco at least the government
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: pretends they didn't set the fire, like this was blatantly
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: the government being like fuck it, bomb them.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: They went a credit for this one.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: And the thing is, even though they say, well, we
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: let the fire burn so people would evacuate, there are
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: a lot of suggestions that the police set the fire,
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: let it burn, and then when the move members tried
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: to flee, they shot at them so they would go
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: back inside. I'm convinced that happened for what Birdie Africa,
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: the thirteen year old kid they interviewed throughout this whole thing,
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: They ask him like, they don't say, were they shooting
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: at you when you ran out? Because he mentions that
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: they ran outside and then ran back in. They just say, well,
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: why did they run back in? And he goes, they
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: were getting shot at That is some insidious shit right there.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: See, this is the part the part documentary. If this
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: was a movie like based on this whole event, and
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: they added that part about shooting them, that would be
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: the part of the story that Hollywood made up just
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: to make it more fucked up. They found that's the truth.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: Like people actually didn't think, yeah, that's that's the monster
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: shit right there.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it is. You're right real, it's the part
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: where you'd be like, Okay, I mean that wouldn't that
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: wouldn't be my argument, but a lot of people yeah,
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: and yeah. What's especially weird about it is, despite all
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: that footage we have of what happened in runt of
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: the Move house, they blocked access to reporters and cameras
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: in the alley behind the house, and that's where they
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: were shooting at Move members fleeing the house exactly, so
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: then they could do it and be like, do you
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: see us on camera shooting at anyone? Of course we
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: didn't do that.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: So that's the one time they came about the camera placement. Yep,
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: that's the one time bomb drop a bomb. But that's
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: too much.
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: They're like, come on, there's so much garbage back here.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: Please let us clean up first.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: No cameras.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah, there's a really great moment because they
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: they're cutting back and forth to this uh inquiry panel
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: that's like looking into this and interviewing the people that
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: were involved, and there's this uh like a black preacher,
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: minister or something like priests. Yeah, and uh he's talking
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: to these cops who are accused of shooting at people,
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: and he's like, I can't fathom in my mind what
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: would make people run back into a burning house after
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: getting out. And one of these cops is like, they're
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: move members. You're never going to under it, and he's like, whoa, No,
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: they're people. I knew these people, and they are not
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: the kind of people who would run back into a
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: burning house. So the police were shooting at these people
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: when they were trying to flee.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: The best part I like how he worded it. He
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: said it so blatantly without having to say it, and
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: their responses said everything like you know what, I got
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: my answerer, Yeah, they made it was so it was
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: perfectly worded, and they fell right into the trap like yeah, yeah,
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: you got Yeah.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: There's also I didn't put it in the notes. We
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: talked about it briefly before we started recording. But there's
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: one cop in this whole thing. Well, I mean, his
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: partner seemed cool too, but there's this one cop who
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: when Bertie Africa escapes. When Bertie gets out, he falls
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: off a ledge and yeah, this CoP's partner is like,
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: you know that thing where some falls so hard you
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: feel it, and like he wasn't joking, he was like
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: I felt the thud in my chest. And his partner
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: is like, so, yeah, obviously I wanted to go get
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: this kid and get him out of harm's way. And
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: some other cop comes up and goes, I think it's
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: a trick. Look at how the woman fell, and they
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: ask him in this panel why he said that, and
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: he was like just a hunch.
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: It's like, motherfucker, that's that's so fucked.
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: So eventually this other cop ignores him and just runs
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: up and grabs the kid and gets him out of
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: harm's way, and they actually thank him during this inquiry panel,
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: like they're like, you are the one cop that did
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: your job according to how the job is supposed to
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: be done.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: When you're talking to monsters and there's one one day
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: a monster, you gotta let him know, Hey, fase not
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: being a monster with the other monsters.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's like, we know that's a thing. Like
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: here's the thing. I think a lot of cops are
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: very bad, but there are also plenty of stories of
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: cops trying to turn and fellow cops for being corrupt
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: and they just get punished for it. And this guy
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: is no different. After the panel thanked him very unfortunate
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: racial slurs written on his locker at work, and he
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: eventually had to quit the force because he had PTSD.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: So the one guy who did his job is also
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: the one cop who came away from this with any
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: sort of repercussions or ramifications in his life because no
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: one gets arrested for any of this, no one's ever charged.
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: They just bomb the fucking house.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: That kind wanted to help because like when he's yeah,
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: he worked with monsters, but it seemed like that one
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: point he made decision like I think I want my soul. Yeah,
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: helped this kid.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like he might have even been a racist fuck stick,
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: but he's like, I'm not that racist. It's a child.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, He's like I can't.
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: He's like, we'll meet again when he's in his twenties.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: I'll beat him then. Yeah, let him enjoy his youth.
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: Oh this fucking story.
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah a lot.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: And there's one more crazy detail to go. Because the
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: police and the fire department decided to let this fire
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: burn as a tactical weapon. They were unable to control
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: the fire, so sixty one houses on that block also
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: burned down, which is there's in the Let the Fire
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: Burn documentary there are interviews with people on the street
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: who are like, my fucking house is gonna burn.
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: Down, And it's a sad because they showed them. They
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: showed the systems before they left, and they showed them
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: when they came back after everything was ruined. So they
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: left and like, I guess they'll get them out. You
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: come back like, ah, not blue atle Bo.
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah it is, and that that literally they burned down
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: the entire block, serving an arrest warrant on four people.
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: That is bonkers. It's such a fucking dark moment in history,
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: and it really is not talked about much at all.
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: Like I feel like once people start throwing around the
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: word cult, people kind of care less because they think
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: they have in their mind. And I think there is
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: a thing in your mind that when you hear the
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: word cult, like you think of a few specific, very
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: unsavory things. This group just had some weird beliefs. They
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: weren't abusing their members and even if you still don't
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: drop a bomb on them and burn down sixty one
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: other homes.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: Along with and just no regards for children whatsoever.
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like there were so many kids in there. Yeah,
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: And when it was all said and done, six adults died,
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: five children were killed. That is a total of seven
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: more people than the police were there to even arrest.
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: And the aftermath also not great. Ramona Africa, who was
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: the only adult survivor, ends up getting convicted on riot
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: charges and goes to prison for seven years.
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: That's bullshit.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: But in nineteen ninety six, she and relatives of two
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: move members who were killed in the bombing sued the
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: city and won a total of one point five million
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: in a civil suit judgment. The surrounding nameghborhood, though never recovered.
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: The city did rebuild the homes they destroyed, but if
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: you can believe it, they did such a shitty job
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: rebuilding these homes. All of them were condemned in two thousand.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: If they built on purpose maybe or just co incidents.
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: The people who built the homes actually went to jail
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: for how they mishandled the funds to build those homes. Wow,
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: And they they did finally pay those families one hundred
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: and fifty thousand dollars each for their home. But again,
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: it destroyed a neighborhood of middle class black people homeowners.
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: In a community.
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah now that like the neighborhood still exists, but it
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: obviously led to a huge exodus of people. So that's
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: a bummer. And over the years, there have been a
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: few different panels that are all like, yeah, the police
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: were completely wrong in their actions, and it's like those
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: cops are still alive. Like is there a statute of
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: limitations on murdering children? I don't think there is.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: It shouldn't. Yeah, gonna get those guys.
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I don't think anyone would be mad if
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: thirty six years later, we were like, yeah, they should
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: be in prison. Huh, Like that would be a positive
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: step for this country, but it's probably not gonna happen.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: In November twenty twenty, a full thirty five years after
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: the bombing, the Philadelphia City Council formally apologized, no rush,
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: take your time. They didn't even apologize in ninety six
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: when they gave them one point five million dollars, like
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: just right, sorry in the memo on the check at least.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: Oh, you're right, and if you booked the houses, they
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: didn't say it then.
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, hey, sorry, we burned your house to the ground.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: Here's a shittier one's crazy And uh yeah. They also
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: in that formal apology they call for an annual day
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: of remembrance on May thirteenth, and hey, that's today as
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: we are recording this. But I kind of get the
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: feeling that apology was finally issued because they knew they
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: had another scandal coming down the pike. And that is
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: in April twenty twenty one, officials at two Ivy League
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: universities acknowledged that anthropologists had been passing the bones of
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: a young move bombing victim between them for the last
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: thirty six years. The Bones were also featured in an
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: online course video called Real Bones Adventures in Forensic Anthropology,
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: taught by a University of Pennsylvania professor and offered by Princeton.
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: Goddamn, this sounds like this sounds like the sequel to
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: Move but not eveone extreme.
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this would be like the third, like the part
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: three where you're like, all right, this is getting silly bones.
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: What are they?
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: Are?
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: MOVE members haunting this college And here's the thing. I hope,
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: so right, I hope that place is haunted as fuck.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: I hope the Ghost Adventures team shows up to look
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: into it, because that's going to be annoying for everybody.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: It's going to be the sight of Tales from the
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: Hood four.
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: Tales from the three is so good.
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: I feel like everyone I tell to watch it, they're like, no,
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: I will fucking watch Tales from the Hood three.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: Watch it, people so good.
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: This is a quote from Mike Africa Junior, who was
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: a six year old MOVE member at the time the
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: bombing happened, and this quote is in regards to the
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: news that came out about the Bones in April of
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty one. It's like this never ends, and no
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: matter how much time passes and you hope that things
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: can get to a place where you can begin to
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: heal some it's right back up in your face. I
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: haven't cried this many consecutive days since nineteen eighty five.
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: And that sucks.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: We're not done with the crazy details of this bones thing,
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: because it eventually came out that workers at penn Museum
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: knew for years that the bones of move victims were there,
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: but museum director Christopher Woods was only no about that
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: because there was another scandal involving bones, and in that case,
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: the University of Pennsylvania for decades was in possession of
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: hundreds of skulls, including those of enslaved people, that had
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: been collected by a nineteenth century physician whose research was
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: used to justify white supremacist views. So basically, the director
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: of this museum comes to his staff and is like,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: do we really have these fucking skulls? And they're like, wait,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: if you think those bones are racist, let's show you
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: what we got in the back room. You ever hear
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: the move bombing And he's like, no, I haven't, what's that.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: It's like the guy that was a crazy nasty guy
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: from falling down. Yes, it's like it's like an underground
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: slave bone shrede Like, what is this? Yeah, and that's crazy.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: Did you know there's websites where you can buy human bones?
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: Is it India?
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: No? Well, I this came up on pretty scary this
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: week and because I, oh, we were wondering where someone
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: got a skull that they had and that they had
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: I said that on accident that they had and uh, yeah,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: there is a website called bone room dot com and
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: slice bird they sell human bones authentic.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: Yes, they certificate authenticity.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: They specialize in human bones. It says. There's also one
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: called Skulls Unlimited.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: Wait wait, I love this organized by size and I
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: guess the sex of the person, the color that is
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: organized like that. I was just because it's.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: Just because who's going to prove you lied to them?
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: I'd be like, this one's an alien human head shapeway.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: So the Penn Museum has promised to return all of
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: these bones to their respective families if possible, because in
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: some cases they can't even identify them. So that is
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: the super sad ending to a super duper sad story.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: The move bombing. Watch both of those documentaries, if nothing else,
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: and find out more about it. It's dark.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: Well you have another question about the bone thing you said,
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: I send them to the family. Yeah, if possible. So
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: that means, if possible, you're gonna send someone here's your
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: your cousin, uh femur and jaw bone. Sorry that's all
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: we had.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope they at least fire off text first,
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: and like, I.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: Don't want random ball as a family. If you don't
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: have the whole selton, I'm good.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, I don't know. My sister somehow managed to
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: lose my dad's ashes. At one point she had them
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: and like moved out of an apartment and didn't take
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: anything with her, including my dad, And a woman tracked
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: me down on Facebook and was like, hey, I got
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: your dad to mail them to you. I was like, yes,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: thank you.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: It was woird, very it's weird, but good.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: That good that yeah, yeah, but that's weird man. So yeah,
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: one one.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: Thing I wasn't got the hook. This got damn Mayle good.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: Do you see his epilogue at.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: The end, Yeah, he's fucking reverend now or something like that.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: You know, he lost his soul you'll never get it
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: back and basted, it's over. Yeah, he pulled a mace.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's he's a lot like I forget the FBI
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: dude's name. Have you seen Judas in The Black Messiah?
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: Not yet?
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: It's great, It's it's great. And in real life, Uh,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: the guy that set them up, there was a this
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: is in the epilogue, So I'm only spoiled spoiling the
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: epilogue for you, but uh, the real story about that, Uh,
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: there was a documentary that came out about it in
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: like nineteen eighty and the cop who set them up
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: killed himself the night that documentary came out because he
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: basically like he was a black dude and he set
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: up like the Black Panthers and he kind of set
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: up Fred Hampton to be killed. And so when that
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: documentary came out, he was like, this isn't a good look.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, where you literally have no where to go?
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah, except you can pull like you said,
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: pull the mace, route get religious, go find God.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: That's it at the end, like when they go through
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: the like, really that's what that's what he did. I'm
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: not going to fix anything.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: Like even though this even though mayor good fucking got religious.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: No one has to like him, like, you can still
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: hate this guy. Yeah, it was his decision after all,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: too or he authorized dropping that bomb.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: There's no way he sleeps at night perfect Like, I'm
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: okay knowing it probably fucks with him with him over,
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: I bet it did.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: They had to, Yeah, he should have PTSD. Also otherwise
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: he's a fucking psychopath because he killed a bunch of kids.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: So that is our goddamn depressing episode. Slice Berg. Do
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: you have anything to plug before we get out of here?
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, I I have. Well I had one already,
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: but I had like two interviews with this. These pretty
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: cool smoked CBD shops around here. Some get one of
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: these as a parts out on job and add some
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: fun things to my smoking sessions.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: Very nice. Uh Patreon, dot com, slash on pops and
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: on Popsnetwork, dot Supercast, dot tech. We uh changed the
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: levels around a little bit, so go check them out
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: see if there's anything you like. You can Also, you
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: get these podcasts without ads if you subscribe there. I
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: think that's it. Let's get the funk out of here,
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: Slice Burg. Say goodbye, goodbye people, goodbye everybody. We love
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: you