Latest / The Healthy Church Staff Podcast / You 1099'd Them So You Could Save the Church Money...

Transcript

You 1099'd Them So You Could Save the Church Money... · The Healthy Church Staff Podcast

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: You hire someone to leave your children's ministry 20 hours a week.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: They report to your executive pastor.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: You set their responsibility to prove their time off and expect them at the weekly staff meeting every week, right?
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: But then somebody asks, hey, could we just pay them as a contractor?
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: That would save us a bunch of money.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: And there's the question we're going to talk about today on the podcast.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Are you bringing someone onto your staff or are you hiring an independent contractor slash professional to provide some kind of a service to your church?
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now, both arrangements can work, but they come with different expectations and different responsibilities.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: And the deciding question can't simply be which one will cost the church less, because there's a person on the other side of that decision.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Hi there.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: This is the Healthy Church Staff Podcast.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Todd Rhodes, one of the co-founders at ChemistryStaffing.com.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Today let's talk about employees, contractors, and doing right by people who do the work.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: All right, let's start with the difference.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: An employee generally works under the church's direction.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: The church has the right to guide what they do and how they do it.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: And their responsibilities are part of an ongoing job and a job description, and they're accountable to somebody on your team.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's a general regular employee.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: An independent contractor is something totally different.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: They generally operate their own business or professional practice, and the church hires them to provide an agreed service or a result, and they have meaningful independence in how they can deliver that result.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Think about hiring a video production company to create your Easter invitation video.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: You agree on the project and the price and the deadline, they bring their expertise and they manage the production.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now think about hiring a communications director whose weekly priorities, responsibilities, and work are directed by your executive pastor.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Those are totally different working relationships.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: And here's an important detail.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Part-time doesn't automatically mean contractor.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Working remotely doesn't automatically mean contractor.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Signing a contractor agreement doesn't even settle the question sometimes.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: The actual relationship is really what matters.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: There are legal rules involved, and churches should get qualified advice about their particular situation.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: You should always do that.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not that person, I'm not the lawyer.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: But you don't need to become a tax expert to recognize when a conversation needs to happen.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about what how that relationship feels to the person doing the work.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Some people want to be contractors, okay?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: They value their independence, they serve multiple clients, maybe your church part-time with a contractor situation and another church part-time.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: They want to negotiate their fees, they want to manage their workload, and they want to be able to build their own business.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: And for those type of people, a contractor arrangement can be exactly right for them and for the church.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: They don't want or even need to have a staff title to feel valued.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: They need a clear agreement, some fair compensation, some reasonable expectations, and respect for their independence.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Other people are looking for a place on the team, right?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: They want an ongoing role.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: They want to contribute to decisions that are being made.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: They want to develop professionally, they want to advance their ministry career and understand their future with the church and your church in particular.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: The frustration comes when the church and the worker are living in two different versions of the relationship.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: The church says, You're a part of the family.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: We need you to own this ministry.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: But when the person asks about time off support or what happens when the rule changes, the answer becomes, remember, you're just a contractor.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Now that can feel like belonging comes with conditions.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: You want, we want you to feel fully invested, we want you available, we want you to carry the responsibility, but we haven't been equally clear about our responsibility to you.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: And even when nobody intended harm, that gap can damage trust.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you're going to find that the relationship won't last long.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you choose the right arrangement?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Start with the work that you actually need.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Do you need someone in an ongoing role that church leadership will direct and supervise?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: If so, that points toward an employment relationship, an actual employee.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Do you need an independent professional to deliver a defined service with kind of real control over how they provide it?
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: So you give them the task and they do it however they they want to, but they deliver the task well?
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: If so, that might be a contractor relationship.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then have someone qualified, once you come up with those details, review those details.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Classification isn't just a preference the church and the worker get to pick.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: There are some rules, and that again is why you need to get some legal advice here.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: And once you understand the appropriate relationship, talk honestly about the whole deal with the either the employee or the contractor, however, you come down.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: What are the responsibilities?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: What does ability or availability look like?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: How is compensation determined?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: What support is included?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: How does either side end the relationship?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: For a contractor, the fee needs to account for the cost that they carry as an independent business, which may include insurance and equipment and administration and unpaid time away.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: For an employee, you know the game.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: You need to be specific about pay and time off and benefits, eligibility.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: You need to be clear about expectations.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: A staff title by itself doesn't tell somebody what they're gonna what kind of support they're gonna get.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: So clarity is part of caring for people, whether they're employees of the church or independent contractors.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now, don't get me wrong.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: I know that church budgets are tight in a lot of cases.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you're trying to feel a real ministry need with money that barely covers the position.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you're honestly just looking for a way to make it look and make it work.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's understandable.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: But if the job requires an employee, calling the person a contractor doesn't solve the budget problem at all.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: It can shift costs and uncertainty onto the person who may have the least room to absorb them even more than the church.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the responsible answer is to reduce hours or narrow the responsibilities or to delay the hire or raise the money to support the role property properly.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: And those are really tough and hard decisions.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: But just saying, hey, we can afford this if the worker carries more of the burden, that's not a good answer.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Good stewardship in churches includes how we treat the people that our budgets pay.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: So here's the challenge this week.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Choose one paid role at your church, especially one that you've always maybe treated as a contractor, and review what the person actually does and how that relationship works.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Get qualified guidance if the classification is unclear, and then sit down with that person and ask them simply, are our expectations clear?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Does this arrangement work for you?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: Are we asking you to carry responsibilities that we haven't accounted for?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: And this goes for both contractors and employees, to be honest.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: Listen before you explain the budget.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: You may discover that the arrangement's working really well.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure it stays clear and fair.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: But you may discover that something needs to change.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: And if you discover that, take responsibility and make a plan to address it.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: The goal is a working relationship that makes sense for the job and treats the person well.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: So don't simply choose the easiest or the cheapest arrangement.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Choose the appropriate one.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Fund it honestly and follow through on your responsibilities.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Whether somebody is on your staff or serving your church through their own business, their work deserves respect and the person deserves care.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: People first and put that in the budget too.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: All right, well, that's it for today.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening to the Healthy Church Staff Podcast.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Share this episode with somebody who helps make hiring decisions at your church.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: And this week, of course, take care of the people doing the work.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Love to hear from you.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Reach out to me anytime, podcast at chemistry staffing.com.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to hear from you if there's any way that I can help your church or partner with your church in the area of staffing, any kind of staffing needs or any kind of questions you have, maybe about compensation or hiring or firing, reach out to me, podcast at chemistry staffing.com.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: All right, that's it for today.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Hope you have a great weekend.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: We're right back here on Monday, every weekday, right here on the Healthy Church Staff Podcast.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: Have a great day.