Latest / The Inspired Stories Podcast / Following the Child's Lead: Sharon Lowery's Educational Revolution | Childcare Series

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Following the Child's Lead: Sharon Lowery's Educational Revolution | Childcare Series · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of Inspired Stories, where leaders
0:07
share their experiences so we can learn from their successes,
0:10
how they've overcome adversity, and explore current challenges
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they're facing. Welcome to another edition of
0:18
the Inspired Stories podcast, where leaders share their
0:20
experiences so we can learn from their successes and be inspired
0:24
by how they've overcome adversity.
0:26
My name is Anthony Kotosbodi and today's guest is Sharon Lowry,
0:30
owner and director of Smart Start Developmental Learning
0:33
Center, which was founded in 1992 in a converted garage in
0:37
Culver City, CA. They are a special kind of
0:41
preschool and elementary school. They offer speech services,
0:44
occupational therapy, developmental behavior therapy
0:47
and so much more. They believe that all children
0:50
have the right to develop and to be fully known hearts and minds.
0:54
They have a passion for the most current and progressive
0:57
foundational education and services.
1:00
Smart Start is unique in their approach and they are committed
1:02
to a comprehensive developmental education and therapy model for
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all of their children. Sharon herself has a long list
1:11
of degrees, certifications and specialties including a
1:14
Bachelor's and Master's in Psychology.
1:16
She has a postgraduate certification and expert trainer
1:19
in Dir floor time. She has studied under Doctor
1:23
Danley Screen Greenspan and she's an expert in the fields of
1:26
special education, inclusive special education, relationship
1:30
based and sensory based education.
1:33
And she was a senior level ABA therapist and was trained by
1:37
Doctor Ivar Lovas, who is the founder of the Style Therapy.
1:41
But she now has different ideas on ABA and we'll hear more about
1:44
that. Before we get into all that good
1:47
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AD back benefitsagency.com. Now back to our guest today, the
2:16
owner and Director of Smart Start Developmental Learning
2:19
Center, Sharon Lowry. I appreciate you making the time
2:21
to Share your story today. Thank you, I'm going to enjoy
2:24
being here and talking with you. So tell me who Doctor Danley
2:29
Greenspan is and why was so instrumental in your approach to
2:33
early childhood education? Sure.
2:36
It's Stanley Greenspan. So that might clarify things a
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little bit. What did I say?
2:42
Danley. Thanks for the correction.
2:47
It's OK. It would be a unique name.
2:49
So Stanley Greenspan is no longer with us.
2:54
But Stanley Greenspan was a psychiatrist, and he was in the
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Washington, DC area and specifically in Bethesda, MD.
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And he was seeing children who had neurobiological challenges.
3:10
And so he began to look at how do we, he's a part healthy
3:17
development and how are the neurobiological challenges that
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he was seeing in his clients? How are those impacting their
3:24
developmental milestones and how they were achieving them.
3:27
And so he came to his methodology, something called
3:31
the DIR Floor Time Model, by studying healthy development and
3:35
then integrating the understanding of how the
3:38
neurobiological challenges were impacting their development.
3:42
Having a deep understanding of the sensory system of children
3:46
and how the disintegration of their sensory system was
3:52
impacting their development. And then creating a methodology
3:56
that goes back in and hits all the developmental stages from
4:03
zero all the way up through current their current stage of
4:08
development and looking to see where their gaps were and going
4:12
back in and filling those. The difference with his
4:15
methodology is it was done and is done through play based
4:20
interaction and foundationally it's looking, he had a, a catch
4:24
phrase that has become very misunderstood, but it was follow
4:29
the lead of the child. And what he meant by that was
4:33
you are looking at the individual interests that that
4:35
child has and that was going to that is going to be your window
4:39
in to your therapeutic intervention.
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And sometimes children who have developmental challenges may
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have very, very curious interests.
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So maybe they have a strong love of cars and trucks.
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And you think, oh, boys and girls are particularly boys,
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usually have strong interests in cars and trucks.
5:01
But really what they're doing is they're feeding their visual
5:04
system through watching the wheels of those trucks go, OK,
5:08
yeah. So that gives us a little bit of
5:09
information about that child. But then I'm going to take cars
5:13
and trucks. And that's going to be my window
5:15
into building that relationship with the child because as human
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beings, we all know that we have strong relationships with people
5:25
that share the same things we love.
5:27
And so the DNDIR is development. So studying development I is
5:32
individual difference. So looking at all the individual
5:35
differences in the children and R is foundation, which is the
5:38
relationship. And that is that was very
5:42
different than the interventions that we were seeing for kids who
5:47
had what we would say now neurodiversity.
5:52
So tell me what you mean by disintegration of sensory
5:56
systems. OK, so children are born, people
6:03
are born with a sensory system. And when children are having
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some struggles with the way that system is starting to integrate,
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they start, they have from zero to three months of age, we are
6:18
as infants learning how to regulate to our environment so
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we can take in all the different stimulation and with support or
6:28
so with soothing, we can come to a calm regulated state.
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That calm, regulated state allows us to then be able to
6:35
interpret the world and to make our developmental gains.
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If you have disintegration, you're not able to access the
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ability to soothe because your central nervous system came out
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raw and the neural pathways are not strong and are not firing
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efficiently to send the information.
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That back and forth signaling system that with pressure or
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with a hug from mommy or daddy or whoever the caregiver is,
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then that baby can come into a soothe state.
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There are different sensory systems that we all, the sensory
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systems that we all know of course, sight, sound, taste,
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touch, but there is also the proprioceptive system and the
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vestibular system. The vestibular system tells us
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where our body is in space through the information through
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our middle ear. The proprioceptive system is the
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system of our body that tells us where we are in space through
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the information to our joints and muscles.
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So very often children who have neurobiological challenges have
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an under responsive proprioceptive system.
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So the the information that they're getting is not hitting
7:49
their their neural pathways. And so all the ways that we know
7:54
to soothe and connect, they're not able to soothe and connect
7:59
that child. So when you have that
8:02
dysregulation, you need to go in and see what systems are under
8:06
responsive, what's over responsive and how can we
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address that? And this is absolutely under the
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the domain of an occupational therapist.
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Jean Ayers was the creator of sensory integration therapy.
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And that is a pivotal therapy for children to make the
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progress that they need to make in order to be able to access
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all the learning environments. So when you talk about
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underdeveloped pathways, is this like a physical underdevelopment
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is? Yeah, say more about that.
8:41
OK, so we're going to step way out of my depth of knowledge,
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but I'm going to, I'm going to share with you from a very more
8:50
of a helicopter view. So the neural pathways and the
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signaling system, the hardwiring of those neural pathways that
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signals the brain to the parts of the body and back and forth,
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those neural pathways are not solid or strong.
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And So what you get is that dysregulation because what would
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be a, a solid foundational neural pathway, the, the child
9:17
would be responsive in a way that would be predictable within
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the quote UN quote normal bell curve of development.
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So that when you are doing the type of therapy where you're
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integrating and working through the sensory system, you are
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strengthening those neural pathways.
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And so let's say, for example, that child who loves to roll
9:39
cars back and forth in front of their eyes because they're
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feeding a visual system and they lay down on the ground because
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they need more input into their body.
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If you're taking and you're, you're doing activities that are
9:52
strengthening their ability to integrate the information, you
9:56
are doing activities where they get to see things flying.
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Let's say you're doing bubbles or water balloons or things that
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are, you're doing a an activity where you have balloons that are
10:07
on a string and they're doing some hand eye coordination.
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All those things are, are strengthening those neural
10:13
pathways. So then they don't have to be
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down on the ground rolling cards back in front of their eyes
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because they don't have a sensory need for that anymore.
10:24
So let me workshop something with you.
10:28
So say you've got a child with a particular phobia.
10:32
And so that I'm assuming indicates that these pathways
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are not well developed. And tell me if I'm wrong on
10:40
this. And then by following some of
10:43
the things in this line of thought, you can strengthen
10:47
those pathways and maybe that phobia becomes less reduced.
10:53
Let me ask you when you say phobia because that isn't a word
10:56
we use in in child development. Tell me what you mean by that,
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because I want to be able to kind of.
11:03
Bring the two. Together, like a child who might
11:05
be deathly afraid of bugs. OK, so if it's a child who's
11:14
afraid of, of bugs and they're just a little 1, so they don't
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know, oh, you know, the spider might bite me and then I get
11:21
itchy and I don't, it was a really horrible experience for
11:24
me. And so there's trauma
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associated. We're not talking about trauma
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association to phobias. You know, I would say that they
11:32
that child cannot predict the movement of that bug.
11:37
And so it, it gives them a a flight response or a flight
11:44
response. So they can't integrate the
11:47
information because the predictability of that bug is
11:52
creates anxiety in them. So if you are then working
11:58
through multiple activities that are helping them be able to
12:04
tolerate movement or less less predictable movement, but in a
12:10
safe environment where they are with trusted adults who they
12:13
love, then they are going to be able to then begin to tolerate
12:18
things that are less predictable or movement that's less
12:20
predictable. They may always be a child that
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doesn't love bugs or let's say they don't maybe don't love
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birds because birds for sure when they fly around are, are
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never going to be predictable and and that can be a bit of a
12:34
trigger for them. But then they can come up with
12:37
adaptive strategies to help them understand, oh, that's a bird.
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Yeah, that made me feel uncomfortable, but I'm going to
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be OK. So to help develop these neural
12:48
pathways and to help them feel safe and protected, loved the
12:55
the primary Ave. is sort of safe human touch.
13:00
Is that a summary? Yeah, I, I think mostly it is
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being in an environment, you know, the, the school
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environment in particular or the, the home therapeutic
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environment is set up. So the person who they're with,
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whether it's parent, whether it's a caregiver, whether it's a
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therapist, whether it's the teacher at the schools, it's
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going to be the educators. They, they are known by their
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educator. So the, the, the educator knows
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the things that are hard for them.
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They know the things that they love.
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You know, one of the things that's in our enrollment packet
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is it's a page that says I love and the family fills in all the
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things that child loves, books, characters, songs, toys,
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activities, movies. And we make sure we have those
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things available on that child's first day because not only is
13:53
that very comforting for them, but it begins to build that
13:56
relationship. And it says to that child the
13:58
whole they like the same things I like.
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So when you are building that trusted relationship and you
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know this, if you're a parent or if you are a grandparent or you
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know, you have nieces and nephews, you know, when you have
14:14
that bond with the children, they are willing to do a lot
14:17
more things than they would with somebody that they don't know is
14:20
a safe person that's going to hold them and be able to to take
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them through the things that are hard.
14:27
You said something else that I'm curious to know more about.
14:30
Follow the lead of the child. And this idea has kind of been
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misunderstood. In what way?
14:36
Yeah. So this goes to the DIR floor
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time model is a very complex model and of intervention for it
14:47
works for the lifespan of of any individual.
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It works with neurotypical neurodiverse, it works with an
14:56
aging population. It's used in in a geriatric
15:01
setting as well. But when Doctor Greenspan
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created, he was AI had the privilege of working directly
15:11
with him and he was really, he loved people and he loved kids.
15:14
And I know that may sound like, well, of course, but as we all
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know, that's not always true when people are leaders in their
15:21
field. But he truly found he loved
15:24
children. And So what he would, when he
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said follow the lead, what people heard is that when you're
15:34
doing the DIR floor time therapy is you follow the child around
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and you don't set up intentional specific activities for the
15:45
child that you know ahead of time is going to address the
15:48
developmental needs of that child.
15:50
And so a lot of people who have not had the proper DIR floor
15:55
time training end up doing their quote UN quote therapy by
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following the child around. Children who have more, who have
16:04
neurodiversity and have these challenges have some oftentimes
16:09
challenges in organization of behavior.
16:11
So their ability to be more intentional about their choices
16:17
is something that they're definitely going to be working
16:19
on. And so if you're just following
16:22
a child around, you are not creating a therapeutic
16:25
intervention, you are exacerbating a child that needs
16:31
the support to begin to develop organization of behavior.
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So a different way of looking at what he was saying is look at
16:41
the lead of interest of that child, identify what that
16:45
child's interests are. That's going to lead you to your
16:49
tickets and your windows into your intervention with that
16:52
child and how to form that relationship and that bond with
16:56
that child. It's also going to inform the
16:59
the sensory challenges because you're watching like my example
17:03
with a child who lays down to roll cars in front of their
17:06
eyes. You're going to get 2 tickets on
17:09
that one. You're going to get the ticket
17:10
that they love cars and trucks, but you're also going to get the
17:13
ticket that they need a lot of visual sensory input and they
17:17
lay down on the ground because they don't feel entirely safe.
17:20
And they get a lot of input into their body when they're laying
17:23
flat on the ground, you know, in a setting that may be
17:25
overwhelming for them. That's interesting.
17:27
So you find that the child is really into cars and trucks.
17:31
You start playing cars and trucks with them as a way to
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sort of initiate the conversation about the thing
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that they need assistance with. Yeah.
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And I wouldn't say initiate a conversation because a lot of
17:44
times these are not kids who are conversational yet.
17:47
So it's your window into the therapeutic intervention that
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you're going to establish and your goals that you're going to
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set for them. And you wouldn't just be playing
17:56
cars and trucks. Let's say for example, that
17:58
child has a strong sensitivity to textures and maybe what
18:03
you're going to do then. And so textures are aversive for
18:06
them. And so it means that they really
18:09
shy away from anything that's wet or sticky or anything like
18:12
that, or they just sand is not something that they can
18:15
tolerate. What you're going to do is
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sorry. Please continue.
18:22
So what you're going to do is you're going to pick, you're
18:24
going to choose activities that involve cars.
18:26
So if they don't like wet or sticky substances, you might
18:29
take shaving cream and put it out on a table and draw roads.
18:34
And then the child is driving through the the shaving cream
18:38
with their truck. They are getting that that
18:41
texture that normally would be really noxious for them.
18:45
But they're able, because they have that love for the trucks,
18:48
they're able to begin to tolerate that texture, which
18:50
then builds and strengthens those neural pathways.
18:53
Interesting. So let's shift into talking
18:56
about ABA therapy. Can you first explain what it is
19:02
and then why you no longer align with it?
19:06
Sure. So ABA therapy, ABA's down to
19:10
applied behavioral analysis and back in when I was trained at
19:16
UCLA, the creator of the methodology in its application
19:22
to at that time individuals who had an autism diagnosis is Ivar
19:29
Lovas. And Ivar Lovas, he came out of
19:31
the University of Washington and he came to UCLA and he was
19:37
coming in at a time in the 70s when autism was a pretty, I
19:43
mean, Kanner identified the syndrome or the diagnosis in the
19:49
40s. So really true.
19:50
The, IT had only been an identified diagnosis for 30
19:55
years at that point. So he came in and he took the
19:59
work of BF Skinner and I, there were other colleagues at the
20:01
University of Washington that we're doing some of the same
20:04
work, but he took the work of BF Skinner, which is operant
20:09
conditioning the stimulus response, the traditional, the,
20:13
the pigeon pecta placed on the cage, they got a pellet.
20:17
It reinforced the behavior. So the foundation of, of ABA is
20:21
there's an antecedent, there's a behavior and there's a
20:24
consequence. And if it's.
20:27
A positive consequence, the behavior increases.
20:30
If it's a negative consequence, the behavior is supposed to
20:33
decrease. So when Doctor Lovasz came in,
20:38
there had not been any early intervention that was not part
20:41
of the mandates to the states yet.
20:45
And so these were individuals who were very impacted on the, I
20:51
mean, it wasn't even called autism spectrum at that point
20:54
with autism, a lot of them were in state hospitals.
20:57
There was a lot of self injurious behavior.
21:00
So he came up with this methodology of the using the
21:05
operant conditioning of we want to increase adaptive behaviors
21:09
and decrease maladaptive behaviors.
21:12
And you do that through giving them either positive, you know,
21:16
a positive verbal response or a or a treat.
21:21
There was, I mean, countless M and Ms. and goldfish were
21:25
applied at that time, goldfish crackers or they got a very firm
21:31
no, he was he all ABA has turned away from this now.
21:37
But there were thigh slaps, hand slaps.
21:42
There was famously people used cattle prods.
21:46
I mean, it was, it has a very, very dark past.
21:49
Nobody does that anymore. That's not part of the
21:51
methodology. But Doctor Lovas, I read back
21:57
from Psychology Today in the 80s that he once quoted, and this
22:02
one really just is a kick in the stomach.
22:05
He believed at the time that children with autism don't have
22:08
a soul. Oh my goodness.
22:12
We're just going to sit with that for a moment now.
22:16
I knew him, I worked with him. He was, I was, he was a mentor.
22:23
And I don't, I really don't know if that's truly, I mean, and I
22:29
don't know if he truly believed that, but he saw children as a,
22:33
as the, the sum total of their behaviors.
22:39
And when he was designing his methodology, if anybody knows,
22:42
university professors keep their jobs by doing research, right?
22:46
That's how they maintain their positions, especially at some,
22:50
you know, at the high level universities.
22:53
So when he was creating, it was called behavior modification.
22:56
At that point it wasn't called ABA, but when he was creating
22:59
his model, he couldn't figure out how to take data on the
23:04
emotional system, so he just left that out of the
23:07
intervention model of serving kids.
23:09
So it is purely a methodology and it has a very specific
23:15
curriculum for all children, regardless of how they come to
23:19
their autism spectrum diagnosis or their developmental delay
23:23
diagnosis. There's a specific methodology
23:27
that is based not on how children develop.
23:31
It has no integration of understanding their
23:34
neurodiversity in their sensory system and it takes in no
23:38
account to the development of their emotional system.
23:41
So if you believe Doctor Greenspan, switching over to him
23:46
for a moment, believed that your EQ drives your IQ, your
23:50
emotional intelligence drives your intellectual intelligence.
23:53
So you're starting with a methodology that is based on
23:58
foundationally on that, that children are a product of their
24:01
behaviors. It doesn't take into account
24:05
that they came wired in some pretty interesting ways and it
24:10
also doesn't integrate any part of their emotional their
24:14
emotional development if I already said that.
24:17
So it is something that is easy to learn, it's easy to train,
24:23
it's easy to teach. So it's the predominant way of
24:27
of intervention. It is a well researched
24:31
methodology because it's frequent, it's come out of a lot
24:34
of universities. So there is that idea that it is
24:38
science based and it has, it's a research based methodology, but
24:44
it does not integrate the whole child and it's not based on
24:47
foundational development and how children are human beings first.
24:52
And we are emotional beings. And we all, from our own
24:57
experiences, really know that when you have somebody who loves
25:01
you and is there for you and works with you, or you have a, a
25:05
professor in or a, a teacher in school that's really passionate
25:09
about their subject, or you're personally passionate about your
25:13
subject, you integrate great. And you learn very differently
25:16
than when you have to do something that truly has no
25:21
meaning for you. You're going to do what you have
25:23
to do, and then you're going to move on and you're going to
25:25
forget it all. And so at what point did you
25:30
realize that this was not the methodology that you believed
25:34
in? Two things.
25:36
One, I started to have exposure because my sole foundation was,
25:41
you know, I was hard a hardwired, dyed in the wool ABA
25:45
therapist 'cause that was my foundation at UCLA.
25:47
And so they had a program at UCLA where you actually got to
25:51
go and work in home with children on the with autism.
25:54
And I absolutely loved the work and so I really believed in it.
25:59
The difference was. When Smart Start first started,
26:04
after a couple years we had a teacher come to us who was from
26:08
Australia and she was a developmentalist and she really
26:12
taught me a lot and a lot about development.
26:15
And I started to think there's so much I really don't know and
26:19
that but the real change was when my daughter was born.
26:23
So I started the school when my daughter was 18 months old and
26:30
we started as an ABA therapist. But it when I started to then
26:34
think about the things that I did with children and I started
26:38
to watch the way that I interacted with my daughter,
26:42
they were very different. And I could not do that.
26:44
I couldn't work that way with kids anymore.
26:48
How were you working? With your daughter, that was
26:50
different. Oh my goodness, she.
26:53
Was a kid 1st and you know, and she and we had a loving bond and
26:57
a relationship and ABA is very I mean this was my daughter was
27:02
born in 1990 and the school started in 92 so this was.
27:09
ABA was. Very intense at that time it was
27:13
there. A component of it that some
27:17
companies still use. It's called discrete trial
27:19
training and it's mass repetitions of of presentations
27:24
of materials to learn. So it's like if you're you put a
27:28
red block, a green block and a yellow block in front of a
27:31
child, then you'd say touch red and they touch the blue.
27:35
No, do it again. Press Touch.
27:39
Touch red. No, it's.
27:41
Really this? It's very intense.
27:43
Oh, good job. It's it sounds.
27:45
Cold and transactional it is 100.
27:49
That's, that's a perfect description of it.
27:51
And so then I have this adorable, beautiful little baby
27:57
crawling around and she and I are learning about the colors of
28:00
things because we're playing with them and we're talking
28:02
about them. And it, it was, it was an
28:05
organic, of course, very beautiful way to, to teach, but
28:10
it was so different than what I was doing with kids.
28:14
Was that destabilizing to you in some way?
28:17
Because like you said, you were a dyed in the wool ABA, you
28:21
know, this was your foundation. And now it's like, hang on
28:24
everything that I sort of based my, I don't know, my work, my
28:28
career on seems to be built on AI don't know a, a, a very
28:34
unstable foundation. Yeah, yeah.
28:38
And it was not, it wasn't a, a super rapid transformation
28:44
because we didn't trans, we didn't transform the school to a
28:47
developmental school until 1998. So we're talking, you know, it
28:52
was a transformation. It was a transformation of.
28:56
Integrating and. Bringing more people in who
28:59
really looked at kids differently and thought
29:02
differently. But you know, my background is
29:05
my mom was a special education teacher.
29:08
And of course I swore I was never going to do that right?
29:10
Of course. So but I have a deep, I was
29:16
raised and I have a deep respect for special educators.
29:20
I saw how hard my mom worked, how passionately she worked with
29:23
kids. And this was way before ABA was
29:25
ever integrated. And I and I saw how dismissive
29:31
ABA was of the special education field.
29:34
Like, step aside, people, we know what we're doing.
29:36
Oh, is that right? Oh my.
29:38
Goodness, to this day anyway. And it's unfortunately
29:43
integrated special education. So it's the predominant
29:45
methodology in schools now too, working with kids which.
29:51
Yeah, you can. Imagine how I feel about that.
29:53
But also my father. My father was a writer and he he
29:58
wrote a book. Oh my goodness, I can't even
30:01
tell you. Maybe in the 80s, seventies, it
30:04
was called the Kid Business. And it was about he was a a non
30:09
fiction writer and he was a reporter for the LA Times.
30:11
But he he wrote a lot of non fiction books, but he wrote a
30:15
non fiction book and this one was called the Kid Business.
30:18
And it was it was about the industry of children.
30:23
So I sort of come at this with this background of.
30:29
A strong heart. For kids.
30:31
And so for me it was I've always wanted to do best by children
30:37
and I don't have, I'm very passionate and outspoken, but I
30:43
I never want to think that I know or have all the answers.
30:49
I want to always grow and develop the programs that I have
30:54
the privilege of directing and guiding to integrate whatever is
30:59
going to work best for children and families.
31:01
And so I wasn't going to hold on.
31:04
My ego was not going to determine the future of the
31:07
school. Good for you.
31:09
I mean, that's a difficult thing to kind of admit to yourself as
31:12
well as to those around you, that I had a very strong belief
31:16
system over here. And I get that it didn't happen
31:18
overnight, which makes sense. Like these things, there's an
31:21
evolution to the process, right? You had to be exposed to
31:24
different ways of thinking and be able to sort of test them out
31:27
in your own life with your own kid and then, you know, in your
31:30
own school to kind of, you know, come to the realization that
31:34
there's a better and a different way.
31:35
But I mean, you got to pat yourself on the back for making
31:39
that transition because for a lot of folks, the ego would be
31:41
too strong to be able to let go of this former identity.
31:46
Yeah, and. You know, to this day I would
31:49
say that I am still a recovering ABA therapist because.
31:55
Are you in a 12 step program? You go to meetings.
31:59
Well, I am, yeah. I, I, I do regularly attend them
32:03
now. It's, it's just, it's like
32:06
anything, what your initial training is can get a little too
32:09
hard wired. But what I've really been able
32:12
to do is present new employees who come from an ABA background
32:18
of a path out of it. And then also much more
32:22
importantly, I've been able to give parents who are trying to
32:26
decide what is the best intervention for their child.
32:31
I've been able to say, I've walked that road and let me
32:34
share with you why that's not the road I travel anymore and
32:37
why we're a different type of a program.
32:39
And so for me, I'm extremely grateful for that background
32:43
because it gives me the perspective of knowing and then
32:48
being able to share why I chose differently and.
32:52
Why is it specifically that ABA is so dismissive of special Ed?
32:56
They think they're too touchy feely or what's?
33:04
This is my 100% an editorial comment, and so I'm just going
33:08
to go there with you. Please do.
33:11
Doctor. Lovas was a force.
33:13
He was the, he was, I think he was Norwegian.
33:19
He was from Scandinavia, let's let's say.
33:22
But he was like, he was a very strong personality and he was
33:27
he, he believed that what he was doing was all powerful and all
33:32
important. And he was.
33:34
A force within the psychology department at UCLA and he had a
33:40
a group of graduate students that were the first wave of of
33:43
PhD students that came out and they all started ABA agencies or
33:48
behavior modification agencies. And.
33:54
These are all, and I worked for one of them after I graduated,
33:57
and these are all men who believed.
34:00
And ultimately there was one woman who really, really took
34:04
off. Her name is is 'cause she's very
34:07
much alive. Doreen Graham's Pichet.
34:09
And she started an organization that became the largest ABA
34:13
organization internationally. And CARD, which is the Center
34:17
for Autism and Related Disorders.
34:19
Maybe, I don't know what CARD stands for.
34:24
Can you? Ask me your question again,
34:27
what? No problem.
34:29
You get passionate. You got to go off on these
34:31
tangents and it brings up other people.
34:32
I'm like please. I got to bring it back and I
34:34
can't remember the question. So why is ABA?
34:37
So dismissive as special Ed. What?
34:38
What's OK? Sorry.
34:40
The beef there. So these.
34:41
Men and and women believed that what they were doing they knew
34:44
best. Like one of, and I will not name
34:47
his name one of the people I worked for when a child was
34:52
going to go to occupational therapy to get sensory
34:54
integration. He's like, oh, that's, that's
34:56
this junk science. But you know, it can't hurt for
35:00
half an hour, an hour a day that they get that.
35:02
Well, that's a foundational therapy for these kids.
35:05
So when you went into a a special education classroom, the
35:10
belief is we know so much more than you do and we know better
35:14
than you do. And, you know, kind of a pat on
35:16
the head. Let let us show you how to a
35:18
better way to work with kids and so when I would go in and work
35:24
in schools with kids and with teachers.
35:27
Because I. Was the daughter of a special
35:30
educator. Oh my goodness, that was never
35:33
going to be the way I was going to interact with the teachers,
35:38
but I had I would watch some of the my coworkers and and the way
35:43
that we were coached and supervised.
35:48
It was to go in and and show the better way.
35:52
And unfortunately, then it became part ABA become so
35:57
prevalent, it became part of the curriculum in the special
36:02
education credential programs. And because it is quote UN
36:09
quote, efficacy based and has this research behind it, it was
36:13
believed, it's believed to be the most effective methodology.
36:20
But in, in reality, development, developmental science has been
36:25
around a lot longer than ABA and there's a lot, a lot more
36:29
research to that. But there's great lobbies and it
36:32
was, it's been a people have made a lot of money doing ABA.
36:39
So. I didn't initially intend to
36:41
spend so much time on these different methodologies, but I
36:43
found it fascinating. And so I'm glad that we did and
36:45
I'm sure that our listeners will appreciate that as well.
36:48
But now I want to focus on Smart Start.
36:50
And what, first of all, what was the inspiration for starting it?
36:54
You had a daughter who was 18 months old at the time.
36:56
Was she part of the the reasoning behind starting the
36:59
school? Tell us how it came into
37:00
formation. Yeah.
37:02
So. Before I had my first child, I
37:06
was an ABA therapist and I traveled all over Los Angeles
37:10
providing in home behavior therapy and I went down, I went
37:14
down as far as Orange County all the way up to the San Fernando
37:18
Valley. And if anybody is a Southern
37:20
California person listening, they know that a long way.
37:23
I put 60,000 miles on my car in one year.
37:29
And then? I had my daughter and I did not
37:32
want to be away from her for that length of time.
37:38
And I had a Co worker at the time who had a her son a few
37:45
months after I had my daughter and they were both about, I
37:49
don't know, not yet a year. And she said, what do you think
37:53
about starting a preschool for kids with autism?
37:58
And she had a detached garage. She lived in Culver City.
38:02
And she said we can convert my garage.
38:06
And I thought. OK, I love that idea.
38:09
I'd never imagined that I was going to be an entrepreneur.
38:12
It was never part of any thoughts that I had.
38:16
I never actually intended to go on into this field.
38:19
I was going to be a psychologist and I was in a a master's
38:24
program for counseling. I was going to get my PHDI had
38:28
all different plans, but you know.
38:31
Clearly, that was. Not my path.
38:33
So we it came at the same time that early intervention was
38:39
beginning to get funded through IDEA in California.
38:42
So it was the beginning of the early start programs in
38:46
California. And so because I am a daughter
38:52
of two people who championed the causes of people who were less
38:57
fortunate, I went to find out how we could access public
39:01
funding for our program. And so we started the program by
39:06
getting vendored to be a a program in Southern California
39:13
serving kids between 18 months and three years old through the
39:18
regional center system in California, which is a program
39:23
for all people regardless of their ability to pay where they
39:27
the state of California pays for services for children with
39:31
identified needs. So that was.
39:35
We started. We marketed way before marketing
39:39
was a word and we had one. We started with one student and
39:45
then quickly built up our program.
39:50
To serve. Children through that age group
39:55
and we were in the garage for three years.
39:59
So what did Marketing. Look like in the early days.
40:02
Going to people's. Home and sharing with them what
40:05
our plan was and what we were going to do and sitting in
40:08
living rooms and talking about our background and how we could
40:12
make a difference in their child's life.
40:14
That was how we got our first child and he's just walking.
40:18
Up and down the street, knocking on no, no, no it.
40:20
Was like, because, you know, somebody might say, hey, I know
40:24
this family is looking for a program and because we were
40:27
already connected within the community of of behavior
40:31
therapy. And then once the program got
40:35
started, the regional center, the West Side Regional Center,
40:39
which is the part of Southern California that we're in, the
40:42
schools in Santa Monica had a group of caseworkers who really
40:49
supported our program and began to send lots of kids to us that
40:54
they that came into their system and they came out to visit the
40:58
program. So we built a reputation pretty
41:02
quickly. And because of my background and
41:05
my partner at that time, her background, we were already
41:10
established and known within the community as therapist.
41:14
And so at. What point did things progress
41:16
to the point where you needed to move out of the garage?
41:22
We were bursting at the seams and my business partner's family
41:27
was really ready for people not to be in their garage anymore.
41:34
So we moved to a second location in Santa Monica.
41:38
We chose Santa Monica because. It's a city.
41:42
That has within their city codes, you don't have to get a
41:47
conditional use permit to lease a building and they had a lot of
41:52
support for child care within the city because it's extremely
41:56
liberal city. So we found a small it was, it
42:02
had been a a pediatric office, but it was a converted two-story
42:06
house. And so we were there for five
42:09
years and then after we outgrew that site, we moved to our
42:14
current location, which is also in Santa Monica, but it's a 6000
42:18
square foot building with lots and lots of outdoor space for
42:22
our kids and so. What do the services look like
42:26
today? So we.
42:29
Have a number of ages and stages and groups of kids that we're
42:34
working with. So we are what's called the full
42:36
inclusion school. And full inclusion means that
42:39
all kids are welcome regardless of their learning challenges.
42:44
So we serve kids from all the way from highly gifted to the
42:47
kids who are very significantly impacted either with autism or
42:52
genetic syndromes. There is a phrase it's not used
42:57
anymore very much, but it's called reverse mainstreaming
43:00
because we have been foundationally a therapeutic
43:02
program our whole our whole existence.
43:05
But when we moved to our current location in 2000, we opened it
43:09
to all children so we could be full inclusion so that all kids
43:13
can come on. The benefits to the kids who
43:17
have special needs to have neurotypical peers is obvious.
43:22
And we can talk about that if we if, if there's time.
43:25
But for the kids who don't have special needs it there are some
43:29
very significant advantages for those kids to be in the
43:34
environment. And we serve kids all the way up
43:36
through highly gifted we. Also.
43:40
Our kids can start as young, I say, as long as they're stable
43:44
walkers, they can start in the program.
43:46
So that's usually, you know, 12 to 18 months and that we have a
43:53
program for kids up in that classroom is for through age 3.
43:58
We have a three-year old preschool classroom, we have a
44:00
four year old police preschool classroom that's now a
44:02
transitional kindergarten. We have two different
44:06
kindergarten options. And then we have an elementary
44:10
program that goes through 5th grade.
44:13
We also provide speech and language therapy for the kids
44:17
who have the speech and language needs.
44:20
And then we also have occupational therapy.
44:25
And then the last. Component of the program is we
44:28
provide in home dir floor time therapy and that is provided
44:35
afternoons, evenings and weekends for children.
44:38
Those are all children with identified needs.
44:41
So where does? The funding come from is this
44:43
all private pay? Is there any insurance or public
44:46
funds that comes into play? All of the above.
44:49
So predominantly this is funded from for our kids under three
44:55
that who have special needs, they are funded through the
44:59
regional center system in California for their for the
45:03
school program for speech and occupational therapy.
45:06
The behavior of the the DIR behavior therapy is funded
45:11
through the regional center system as well.
45:15
If once the kids turn 3 in California, the state of the the
45:19
state, the school districts are responsible for funding their
45:22
education if they are placed with us.
45:26
There are three different ways to come.
45:28
One is for families to pay privately.
45:31
The second is for them to be reimbursed through the school
45:34
district, which is a a legal process the families have to go
45:37
to. But we're also what's called a
45:40
non public school, which is through the Department of
45:43
California, Department of Education, you can become
45:45
certified to be a non public school and school districts can
45:50
place children in our program. So those are the three different
45:56
ways. But it's much more common for
45:58
children to come with funding from some source rather than
46:02
families paying privately. And you mentioned that.
46:05
There are benefits for neurodivergent kids to have
46:09
neurotypical kids in the same classroom.
46:12
Is that just because, oh look, Johnny's my size?
46:16
He's, you know, doing that thing that means I should be able to
46:19
do that thing? Is that sort of what it is like?
46:22
Inspired by your peers? Yeah, I mean there's.
46:25
There's some that's, that's one component of it.
46:29
There's a few different ways that it supports the child who
46:34
has learning differences. 1 is that if the child does not have
46:41
any identified special needs, then they can support and kind
46:46
of hang with that child for a little longer.
46:49
And if the teacher says, hey, can you play such and such with
46:55
your friend and remember, they they communicate by by using
47:03
their hands or they're remember they're not going to be able to
47:05
share with you using their words, but they definitely want
47:08
to play with you. And so that's one advantage.
47:12
Another is the component of a little bit of like what you were
47:18
saying, but kids who are the same size provide a visual motor
47:22
map. So if they are doing the same
47:26
thing, then you would have the child.
47:29
Like if you're doing like, let's say an obstacle course, you're
47:31
going to have the child who does not have the same challenges go
47:34
first. So the peers who have the
47:36
challenges can watch and do a visual mapping of how that child
47:40
navigated that obstacle course. So you're getting a motor map, a
47:43
model of the motor map. And for our kids who do not have
47:50
special needs, it is a much more individualized program.
47:57
So you've got educators with their eyes on all kids because
48:00
we all come with areas that are, are easier for us in areas of
48:06
learning that are more challenged.
48:08
And so you get a, a much more focused educator watching and,
48:13
and supporting your child. Of course, the huge component
48:18
from the social emotional component is that they learn
48:23
that all, all peers come differently created.
48:28
So that they're, you know, a lot of the kids have been with us
48:32
since they're two years old and they've been in an inclusive
48:35
setting and they actually don't really have any conscious
48:37
processes about, oh, I'm a good friend to so and so because they
48:41
have special needs, it's just part of their existence.
48:44
And that is a really beautiful thing because if you didn't have
48:48
that experience and you see somebody who really is.
48:52
Has a. Different presentation, you
48:54
don't really know how to integrate or how to approach
48:57
that that person. So it it builds that really they
49:03
really know how to be kind. It's almost like we're.
49:05
You're hardwiring them to be more accepting and open to
49:09
people who present differently. Yeah, it doesn't even.
49:11
It doesn't really even they don't have a thought about it.
49:14
It's like, well, this friend doesn't communicate with with
49:18
their mouth. They have a device and the and
49:20
they can type and they can communicate.
49:22
For our older kids, they use iPads sometimes to communicate.
49:26
So that friend, they communicate this way, even though I know
49:30
that's true. He's also a phenomenal reader,
49:32
reads better than I do. Or, you know, it's like if the,
49:36
the younger kids are early, they're learning to read.
49:39
And sometimes children on the autism spectrum have hyperlexia,
49:44
which means they're, they can become early readers.
49:47
So when the teacher calls somebody up to read who's not
49:51
yet reading, then she might say, hey, let's ask so and so up and
49:55
you guys can read together because he's reading already and
49:59
he can help you with that. So really helping show each of
50:02
the kids what their strengths are and what are the areas of
50:07
extra support they may need. For the kids who are in the
50:10
gifted, the gifted profile, very often they can come into us with
50:16
maybe some speech delay. It's not uncommon for them to
50:20
have delays in development, but then as they get closer to
50:24
three, it's obvious that actually those things are coming
50:27
in and they're probably more in the gifted profile.
50:30
But what happens a lot of times for kids who are in the gifted
50:33
range is their emotional systems are not quite as strong as their
50:38
intellectual systems. And so you get some struggles
50:42
with taking the perspective of others.
50:44
And so there's some EQ work that really needs to be done with the
50:48
gifted kids because they're going to have their own
50:50
challenges because they're going to be really far ahead in the
50:54
academic realm. And teaching them how to really
50:57
be a kind friend and an accommodating friend for and
51:01
developing their social skills as well.
51:03
It's really important for that group.
51:06
What does the term garden? Variety mean.
51:10
Yes, so. That is a euphemism for an
51:16
inclusive setting where all kids are welcome and they can come to
51:20
us from all different backgrounds.
51:23
They may have high levels of need within, you know, from a
51:27
developmental perspective. We've had kids.
51:31
With genetic issues, with genetic conditions, terminal
51:37
illness, kids who again, go on to have a gifted profile on kids
51:45
who are just, you know, gonna travel a a a smoother
51:50
educational journey. So it kind of just means
51:52
everybody's welcome. Sharon.
51:55
Before your daughter was born, you did a lot of in home
51:58
services and you started this school.
52:00
Are in home services still part of what you do?
52:03
Yeah, yeah, we. Still do the the in home
52:06
behavior therapy, but it's done with the DI R4 time model.
52:11
So we have a whole group of, of families that we serve.
52:15
Some of them go to the school and we serve them in home.
52:19
Some of them come to us wanting because there aren't a lot of
52:23
agencies that do the DIR four time model.
52:26
And then some of them used to go to the school, but now have are
52:30
up in the middle and middle school range or high school
52:34
range because with that service goes up to age 18.
52:38
Where? Does Smart Start go from here?
52:41
Are there plans for growth, new services, new buildings, more
52:46
classrooms? Or you feel like, hey, we've got
52:48
a good thing going. We're just, we're not going to
52:50
monkey with it. I'm 61.
52:55
I don't really have a desire to grow outside of the building
53:02
that we're in, but we are in a recovery still from COVID.
53:08
So we have begun to increase our class sizes again.
53:17
You know, during COVID, not only of course we had to close, we
53:20
closed for a short period of time because we're a private
53:23
school. As soon as California allowed us
53:25
to do what we wanted to do, we did it.
53:29
But we had to reduce our class sizes.
53:32
And there was a season where parents were still very anxious
53:40
about sending kids back to school.
53:42
So our class sizes reduced either because parents weren't
53:46
ready to send their kids back or we kept a smaller class size
53:50
because we needed to keep spacing.
53:53
So we're in a very focused rebuilding period and wanting to
54:02
grow the program so that we're increasing our preschool program
54:07
to add more kids. We do have availability in that
54:11
and the elementary program we're continuing to right now I'm
54:17
already starting to tour for next school year.
54:20
So it is in a growth, a growth cycle in that way.
54:24
Our home services, that's not something that has the
54:30
limitations of space because we can add, we can add more kids
54:34
because we're serving them in home.
54:35
It doesn't. It's not limited by our square
54:37
footage. How about staff?
54:40
Is it difficult to find and retain good staff?
54:46
Well, I believe. That's not just in our industry,
54:50
but absolutely the the job market and the ability to the
54:57
the staff that we've that we have is a really spectacular
55:02
group of people who are committed.
55:06
The hiring process has definitely of the face of that
55:10
has changed pretty dramatically. It is harder to add new staff.
55:15
Some of the limitations of growth have been based on making
55:19
sure that we are getting people that are of the caliber and the
55:26
background that we need to be able to do the type of work we
55:29
do. So.
55:31
It is most. Definitely been a challenge and
55:33
I've had to do a lot of learning and growing on how to pivot for
55:41
this new this new season within the job candidates in the job
55:46
market. What things?
55:49
Have you tried and had success with so far?
55:53
In terms of. How do I find somebody good?
55:55
How do I hold on to somebody good?
56:04
It's been. It's been a challenge for me
56:07
because I, I can't and won't compromise on the caliber of
56:11
people that we're bringing in. So it is, you know, for, for me,
56:20
when I'm looking for a new staff, of course, they have to
56:24
have a background in working with children.
56:26
But what I'm always looking for is somebody who's very
56:30
passionate about what they do and really loves to play with
56:34
kids. And that may sound strange.
56:36
Well, of course they're in education.
56:37
They love to play with kids. But the ability to play with
56:40
kids is is is not a lot of people have it.
56:46
So we're really I, I haven't compromised in, in that area,
56:50
but it does make it a challenge. So.
56:55
I I. No longer get offended though.
56:59
I scratch my head when you know, you have 10 interviews set up
57:03
and three people show up for those interviews even though
57:06
they've all confirmed that they're coming.
57:09
So, but you know. I have a friend who's a senior
57:11
partner in the law firm and he's like, well, we haven't, we
57:14
haven't been able to fill positions within our law firm.
57:18
So don't take it personally. OK, I get to talk to.
57:21
Folks in all kinds of industries because of this show and my work
57:24
and yeah, it's a pretty universal thing still today.
57:28
So yeah, I think it's a. Recovery, it's a COVID recovery
57:32
process. And I also think that, you know,
57:35
it's, it's a generational component to, of a different in,
57:41
in pivoting and in my expectations of who's coming
57:48
through, but never deviating from making sure that the people
57:52
that we choose to come aboard are going to be able to share
57:58
our passion and our vision and our mission.
58:01
Sharon, what's? Maybe a particular challenge
58:04
personally or professionally that you've gone through lessons
58:08
learned, how you got through that coming out the other side.
58:13
Again. At age 61, I am having done been
58:18
in the field for 40 years now. I really did not.
58:22
And I, this is where, you know, it's just kind of probably my
58:25
personality at this point. I didn't believe that I would
58:29
still be having to fight every day for kids and for families
58:34
and for funding and for organizations to do right by
58:40
children and families. And, and I think that's just
58:45
naive. You know, I am, I am very
58:52
passionate about what I do and I take things very intensely,
58:59
making sure that we're doing the best we can for kids.
59:04
But I I would have loved for it to not be such a challenge.
59:08
But I think that that's just the reality.
59:12
I am somebody who will go go to the map for kids and families
59:16
and it's just my personality and the way I was created.
59:21
But I don't always enjoy that part of things.
59:23
I would really love for things to be smooth sailing.
59:26
I just don't think that's life. And the lessons learned is if I
59:31
had known that at 61 I would still be battling and fighting,
59:35
I may not have done it. So I'm really thankful that I
59:38
didn't know that sometimes. Ignorance is bliss.
59:42
Absolutely. I have.
59:47
I have I. Still would choose.
59:50
It I'm sure of it because there's nothing better.
59:53
I had a a call a couple months ago from a grandma who had a
1:00:02
grandchild that she was needing who was showing some signs and
1:00:09
of developmental delay and she said to me.
1:00:16
You know my. Son was in your program and I
1:00:20
just want you to know that he just graduated from USC Business
1:00:25
School. This is, you know, and I was
1:00:27
like, and that was that was a beautiful moment.
1:00:31
And I thought, OK, the fight is worth it.
1:00:35
The fight. Is worth it.
1:00:37
And when we get graduation cards and pictures of college
1:00:42
acceptance from kids that were in the program years and years
1:00:46
ago, it's, it's all worth it. It's it's all worth it to see
1:00:54
the progress that kids made. I have another quick story.
1:00:57
I have I had two girls last over the summer who both they had
1:01:03
both been in the program since they were two.
1:01:05
I think one started when she was 3.
1:01:07
So diaper still in diaper stages.
1:01:11
And I saw the two girls chatting and they're both 12 years old.
1:01:17
And I said, oh, girls, what's going on?
1:01:21
She's. And one said, oh, she just
1:01:23
started her cycle. And I said right now.
1:01:27
She said, yeah. I said, oh, OK.
1:01:31
Well, did you do you have anything in your backpack?
1:01:34
Did mommy send you with any kind of some supplies for that?
1:01:37
And she said no. And her friend said, now these,
1:01:41
mind you, these are both girls who came to us very
1:01:44
significantly on the autism spectrum who have emerged to
1:01:49
really be at grade level and doing really fabulously well.
1:01:52
And so her friend said to her. Oh, I have a.
1:01:55
Pad in my in my cubby. Let me go get it for you.
1:01:58
So she went and got her her pad and so I took the other gal in
1:02:02
the bathroom and showed her what to do and I said you doing OK
1:02:07
honey? I'm fine.
1:02:08
OK, so and I check on her the rest of the day and her friend
1:02:12
checked on her 'cause her friend had started her cycle a few
1:02:15
months before. And it was and.
1:02:18
So I called the little gal's mom and I said OK so your daughter
1:02:23
has has started her period and she Mama freaked out.
1:02:27
Oh my goodness, Oh my goodness. Does she need to get picked up?
1:02:30
Is she OK? I said no she's great and her
1:02:33
friend helped her and it was truly such a beautiful moment.
1:02:37
Not only had had these girls come from diapers to getting
1:02:41
their first period, but also to watch the camaraderie and the
1:02:45
friendship and how they stayed calm and regulated.
1:02:48
And it was just like, oh, it's no big deal.
1:02:50
It was a it was a beautiful, beautiful moment.
1:02:52
And I have to imagine. That it really helped that it
1:02:55
was her friend that was helping her with part of this, right?
1:02:59
Oh yeah. Yeah.
1:03:00
So it's, you know, it's not the big deal.
1:03:03
Yeah. There's no.
1:03:04
Big deal. Yeah, let me go get the.
1:03:06
Pad out of my cubby. It was truly a beautiful,
1:03:11
beautiful moment. So those things all make it
1:03:14
worth it and all the battling and.
1:03:19
Yeah. So I'm I'm.
1:03:20
Grateful, I'm super grateful to be where I'm at at this point,
1:03:24
sure And I've just. Got one more question for you,
1:03:26
but before I ask it I want to let people know the best way to
1:03:28
get in touch with you. What would that be?
1:03:32
My e-mail is always the best way to reach me.
1:03:35
You can also access the website and there's contact forms all
1:03:39
over it so that those all come directly to my e-mail.
1:03:42
So my e-mail is going to be, I'm sure in your show notes, but you
1:03:48
want me to share that? Yes, please.
1:03:50
OK. So it's Sharon, Sharon at
1:03:54
smartstartschool.com and I, a very reliable returner of
1:04:02
e-mail. And I also, if somebody wants to
1:04:05
call me, they can send an e-mail.
1:04:08
And I'm always happy to talk to people, whether or not they ever
1:04:11
have any interest in the school or send their kids to the
1:04:14
school. I'm always happy to chat with
1:04:16
people. Oh, that's tremendous.
1:04:18
That's very generous of you. So last question for you,
1:04:21
Sharon. What do you see are the big
1:04:23
changes that are kind of coming in your field in the next couple
1:04:26
of years? Oh boy, that's a big.
1:04:33
One huh? That's a.
1:04:34
Big one, because that means I have to get my head up out of my
1:04:37
current my current challenges. Maybe just one thing What What's
1:04:49
something that you think is coming that outsiders like
1:04:53
myself wouldn't know about? Oh my goodness.
1:04:57
I was so don't know that. So to answer that question, I
1:05:01
would say I have my hopes and dreams.
1:05:03
My hopes and dreams are about that children who.
1:05:12
Have identified. Needs have opportunities for
1:05:18
different ways of being worked with on really seeing as unique
1:05:23
and have opportunities to learn and grow and not be seen as a
1:05:30
problem but be seen as an opportunity for them to grow
1:05:36
and. This is a.
1:05:38
Story that I think I would love to be able to have people kind
1:05:43
of ponder. Many years ago, it was at a very
1:05:46
large conference, and there were about 1000 people in the
1:05:49
audience, maybe more, maybe 2000.
1:05:52
And there was this gentleman along the side who was probably
1:05:57
in his early 20s. And he clearly was, by my
1:06:01
estimation, on the autism spectrum.
1:06:04
And he's running up and down on the side aisle and he's hopping
1:06:08
along and he's clapping and he's bobbing and he's making a lot of
1:06:12
vocalizations and. And I had.
1:06:16
A lot of thoughts, oh, he has autism.
1:06:19
He's very significantly impacted with autism.
1:06:22
And I made all sorts of of assumptions about him.
1:06:28
And they introduced who the next speaker was going to be at the
1:06:31
conference. And guess who the speaker was at
1:06:34
the conference? It was that man.
1:06:36
He went up on the stage and he proceeded to type out his, his,
1:06:43
you know, he had a, a device where he was able to type in and
1:06:46
then it was a voice projection. And that man was not a verbal
1:06:51
communicator, but he was an incredible, accomplished, deep
1:06:57
thinking man who did not have the ability to speak using his
1:07:01
voice. And he shared his story.
1:07:06
And it was a testimony of being underestimated and people making
1:07:11
assumptions about who he was based on the output of his
1:07:16
sensory, the sensory system in his body.
1:07:19
It was a transformational moment for me because I really, truly
1:07:23
want to be able to say never underestimate who kids are based
1:07:28
on what you see and to really dig deep to discover who they
1:07:34
are because Oh my goodness, you're going to be surprised and
1:07:38
you are also going to be humbled in that process.
1:07:42
And so I just want to encourage people out there to really spend
1:07:48
the time to get to know kids and to keep a really high level of
1:07:57
expectation and never underestimate them.
1:08:01
Sharon, that's a. Beautiful and perfect way to end
1:08:03
today's interview. Thank you for sharing both your
1:08:05
time and your story with us today.
1:08:07
I really appreciate it. It's always.
1:08:09
My pleasure folks. That's a wrap on another episode
1:08:12
of the Inspired Stories podcast. Thanks for learning with us
1:08:15
today.