Latest / DevQuestions with Tim Corey / 074 How Do I Get C# Work Experience? How Do I Get My First Job?

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074 How Do I Get C# Work Experience? How Do I Get My First Job? · DevQuestions with Tim Corey

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Dev Questions Podcast with Tim Corey.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Join us each episode as we tackle the questions you are asking about a career in software development, understanding the industry, and new technology.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: If you're just starting out or you want to grow stronger as a developer, this is the place to get your questions answered.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Now, here's your host, expert developer and online educator, Tim Corey.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: How do I get C Sharp work experience?
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: How do I get my first job when jobs require work experience?
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: This is a great question.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's one that I hear over and over.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought I'd take some time now to address that in today's episode of Dev Questions.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the first thing you need to remember is that employers want to know that you can do the job.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's really all they care about.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: So when you see a job posting where they ask for a number of years experience, they ask for certain degree or certifications, and they ask for other requirements, really what they're trying to do is they're trying to filter the population down to people who they think would definitely be able to do the job.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: That does not mean that you're not qualified if you don't meet all of those requirements.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: It may mean that they filter you out immediately if they use an automated filter, and that can be difficult at times.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: We can talk about how to get around that to an extent.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: We can't lie.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: But the real kind of the crux of all of this is that employers just want to know that you can do the job.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: If they're asking for an entry-level position, but they're saying, hey, two to four years experience, the reason why is because they want someone that can start on day one and do work where they don't have to train them as much.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that's if you keep that in the back of your mind, then it helps make more sense as to what you can do to show an employer what they want to see.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: So the purpose of work experience is just to assure them that can do that you can do a job.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: So if you can show work on an open source project, that can show them that because you're still getting work experience, you're just not getting paid for it.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: You need to be careful how you say things.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: You can't say, hey, I was employed at this open source project.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's not what you were.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: But you can say, hey, I worked on this open source project from this date to this date, and really you can make that like your side job.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Again, don't say it's a job, but say you worked on this project and that can show some experience.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: If you volunteer your time and build an application for an animal shelter or other nonprofit organization, that can be work experience, even if you didn't get paid for it.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great way to kind of uh line up two or three things in a row, because if you volunteer your time for a nonprofit, first of all, you're hopefully doing something good.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're you're helping out someone in the community that is um hopefully doing some good in the community as well.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: So you're helping out there, but then also you are being able to contribute a real working application, which gives you that well-rounded uh I you know growth as a developer, where you're actually building something that works, not just building something for show.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: And you're giving it to a real user or set of users who can look at it and say, this doesn't work right, or this needs to be improved, and you can kind of grow through that as well.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: But then when it comes to your resume, not only do you have work experience, but you also have someone that can be a reference to how good you do.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: And since most likely they won't be developers, they're not gonna be commenting on the quality of your code when they are your reference, they'll be commenting on the fact that you did work for them.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so they'll be a lot more enthusiastic, a lot more um, they will talk about you a lot better in some ways than even if they were developers, because they'll be saying things like, Man, they came in and they made a huge impact in our organization.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: They allowed us to do things more efficiently, they allowed us to be able to spend more time with the people we're we're giving it back to rather than on administrative things.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Those are the kind of things that an employer is gonna like to hear.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: The fact that you helped an organization move forward, helped an organization do better.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: And yet at the same time, it's not gonna be about your code quality, it'll be about how you contributed to the organization.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: That can actually be really positive.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: So that's another way that you can kind of show off some work experience.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Now, there are some things that you do not want to show them, or you want to limit how much you show them when it comes to your pro your resume, your portfolio.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: The first thing is sample projects.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: This really goes against the work experience.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: If you show a project from school where school gave you a project and you completed it, and then you put that into your portfolio, that kind of goes against the work experience.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Now, when you're first starting out and that's all you have, put that in your portfolio.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: It does show that you wrote code, but it's going to be good as soon as you can to put a real project in there, one that actually solves a problem.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the first thing I want to say, be careful of is don't just fill your pro your portfolio up with sample projects.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Put real code in there, real applications that actually do something.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that means you'll have to build some.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so that's your first thing to do.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: The next thing is do not put fake experience in there.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Be very careful of this.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: When I catch someone in a lie on their resume or their portfolio, they're done.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: I am not going to consider anything else they say.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you have been caught in a lie in your portfolio or resume, I don't know what else is true and what's not.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm going to write you off and say, nope, not at all.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: So do not fake experience.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: Don't stretch the truth.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: Be very truthful and up front.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: But say, hey, I have worked for five years in office, not doing coding, but I've got five years of going to meetings and managing projects and show off what you did gain from that work experience.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's not programming experience, but it is work experience.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then show off what skills you have as well, and that can translate.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: So but don't say I have five years programming experience because I wrote one program once at work in the past five years.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the same thing, don't lie.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Now, when it comes to your portfolio, again, don't have apps that don't solve real problems.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: So you want to replace those sample projects from school with real projects, but make sure they solve real problems.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: They don't have to be large problems, they don't have to be complicated problems, but solve a problem.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, what happens is the employer looks at the app and says, I don't understand why this was created.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: And you can say, Well, it's a show-off that I can do X, Y, and Z.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but it's hard to translate that into a real world project.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: So build a real world project, something that solves a real problem.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Now, next up, don't show them a generic resume.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's easy to want to do this.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: You're applying to a hundred jobs, you create one resume and send it out to all of them.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's not gonna do well.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's not gonna get you your best responses.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you may say, well, Tim, I don't have time to apply to a hundred different jobs.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: Then apply a 10.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe send your generic resume to 90 of them.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: But the 10 that you're most interested in, create a custom resume for each of them that focuses on the things that you could do for them, the things that they're looking for.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're looking to apply to an entry-level C sharp web developer position, and you've done a little bit of web development, maybe in WordPress or you've done some custom HTML and CSS, yes, put those things and try to put something that you've done in C sharp as well, even if it is a sample project or a portfolio project that's not for a real company.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: But kind of take out the things that don't apply.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like I wrote stuff in Python, that's great.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe if it shows you're a programmer, maybe, but don't rely on that.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Focus on HTML, CSS, uh, maybe a little JavaScript, but mostly C sharp then, if that's the kind of position you're applying for.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Focus it on the employer.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, the employer is looking at can they do a job for me?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: The fact that you've written stuff in Ruby and machine learning doesn't really apply to this.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: So why is it in your resume?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and with that, also take out the paragraphs of information that just tell me what you can do or would do or things like that.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Paragraphs of information are gonna get skipped at the very least.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're just very, very wordy, you're gonna get pushed to the bottom because an employer wants you to show, not tell.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of people out there saying I can do this.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: If you're one of the voices that's saying, I can do this, that's not good enough.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: You need to show the employer I have done this, or here's what I have done that shows that I can do this.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's what you need to show.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: So show, don't tell.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Also, be professional.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: When you create your portfolio, when you create your resume, when you create your cover letter, make sure that you spell check it, make sure that it's consistent.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: For example, if you start off with bullet points, don't end with numbers.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: You laugh, but at the same time, I've seen this.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, line up all your paragraphs so they're all in line, things like that.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Be professional.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you're in the conversation talking to a potential employer, don't talk down about yourself.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Don't say things like, Well, I don't or I haven't, if you can help it.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Instead, focus on what you can do and what you have done.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: So when they say, Hey, we're looking for a person that has deep experience in C sharp, don't say, Well, I don't have deep experience in C sharp, but I'm a pretty good programmer.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's sell yourself short.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Instead, say, Well, I have worked with C sharp for the past two years, and I've gone pretty deep in these areas.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: And here's my training plan for how I'm going even deeper in C sharp.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: You see how it focuses on the positives, the things that you are doing, the things that you can do, rather than putting yourself down and basically tell giving the hiring manager an out.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: If you tell them I don't and I can't and I haven't, then you are basically giving them the words to spit right back at you to say, well, since you don't have deep C sharp knowledge, this really isn't the position for you.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, don't give them that ammunition.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: They may say that, and that's gonna have to be okay, but don't you be the one to say that.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Bottom line for all of this is show that you can do the job.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: So work experience, yeah, it's hard to get work experience before you get a job, but it is possible.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Donate your time, uh, work in open source projects, build your own project if you can solve some type of real problem.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Small, keep it small, but solve some problem.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: But the bottom line is you want to show an employer that you can do the job.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Don't just give them gaming samples when they are a business-oriented company.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Get them samples that apply to what they're doing.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: The closer you can get to showing them the exact job that you would be doing, the better.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the bottom line.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Show them you can do a job and you will have a shot.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Don't wait to apply until you have five years of work experience.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Apply earlier than that.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Apply with no work experience if you can show in some way you can do a job.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: Even if they say, hey, here's the minimum bar, because they will let you in sometimes.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Not all the time, but sometimes.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: And the more you can show you can do a job, the more likely it is you can get the job.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: All right, thanks for listening to this week's episode of Dev Questions.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: If you have a question about being a developer, check out the past episodes.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't find the question that you have, go ahead and contact me through I amtimcorey.com.
• 14:01
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• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening, and as always, I am Tim Corey.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining us for this episode of Dev Questions.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Tim is committed to making it easier for you to become a developer.
• 14:21
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• 14:28
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• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, remember, you are too smart and your time too valuable to waste it making all the mistakes Tim did.
• 14:41
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