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Andy Stanley - From the Vault Confronting Challenges with Charlie Renfroe · Andy Stanley Sermons

0:05
Hey, everybody, Welcome to our monthly leadership podcast. If you are a
0:08
regular podcast subscriber, you know that Lane Jones is normally our host. But
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today I'm filling in for Lane because one of my favorite people in the world
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is filling in for me. Now, if you were to ask me,
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is sometimes I'm asked who outside of your family and or who outside of your
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parents were the most influential people in your life. The first person on my
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list is our guest today, Charlie Renthrow. Charlie has been a mentor.
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We'll talk about that. He's been a friend, he's been a board member,
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And for those of you who've read any of my books or listen to
0:39
any of my messages, I have quoted Charlie more than anybody else. In
0:42
fact, Charlie, I've quoted you so many times I started changing your name
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so people thought I had more than one friend and more than one influence in
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my life. Charlie and Patty have five children, three sons that work in
0:54
the family business, one son that's in heaven. His daughter, Christa also
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works in family business. This eleven grandchildren, and Charlie and I met thirty.
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We figured this up yesterday thirty years ago. I met thirty years ago
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in about nineteen eighty five, when I was starting my first real job.
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Charlie, you were about I think we figured up you were forty three or
1:15
forty four years old, and then you said you were fighting alligators and bank
1:18
officers. We're going to talk about that. Charlie was participated in our church
1:23
when I was working for my father and his kids were in our youth group,
1:26
and I was a youth pastor, and so one day this forty something
1:30
year old guy walks up to me and says, Hey, any let's have
1:33
breakfast. We had breakfast. That became a regular thing, and it literally,
1:38
as you're going to discover, impacted my life in a significant significant way.
1:42
And the story that most of you who have listened to me for some
1:45
time have heard me tell about Charlie, and this will put it all in
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context. Charlie would walk into the original House of Pancakes. I'd be there
1:51
waiting for him about six thirty in the morning. He'd be all dressed up
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in his suit and his tie and his cuff links, and he'd sit down
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and smack his ring down on the table and say, Andy, what you're
2:00
working on big. What you're working on big? And at that point in
2:01
my life, I wasn't working on anything big big, was just trying to
2:06
get to work and keep my job. But Charlie believed that I had the
2:08
potential to work on stuff big and saw that maybe one day I would be.
2:13
So would you please give a Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast. Welcome to my
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friend Charlie renfro Thrilled that you're here. Charlie, Andy, thank you so
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much for inviting me, and I'm just excited to be here with you.
2:23
About this conversation, Yeah, well it's about to get really exciting. So
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here's what I want to do. We're going to get things way out of
2:29
order. And I want to start with where you were in your career when
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we first met. You were about forty four years old. Yes, I
2:36
was this leading a youth group of you know, one hundred people or one
2:38
hundred kids or so, trying to get them home from six Flags on time.
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I wasn't working on anything big, as I said. You, on
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the other hand, had several businesses you were involved in, and you were
2:46
about you had just gotten into something really, really big. So just kind
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of catch us up with a little bit about what was going on right then.
2:53
Yes, we had just moved to Atlanta in nineteen eighty five, and
3:00
we, as you said, we were in business in making in Tuscaloosa and
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East Tennessee, and the billboard business and the mini warehouse business down in making
3:08
in Tuscaloosa. And in those two businesses of the mini warehouse, we had
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gotten off into another business called document storage records, archive, storage of files,
3:21
files, boxes full of files, tax returns, you know, law
3:25
documentation, you know tiles lee, Yeah, medical records, you know,
3:30
blueprints, Coca Cola, payroll slips, the whole thing. I mean,
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anything that was generated off of a computer and printed out. We kept as
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an off site storage facility in those two markets. Well, when I moved
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to Atlanta, I had the opportunity to go down and visit a man that
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owned a company called Atlanta Archives. And they had all the law firms records
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in Atlanta, and all the accounting firms, all the big eat. They
4:00
had the Southern companies records, all of the documentations and paperwork that are involved
4:06
in running an accounting firm, tax returns, log wheels, all those kinds
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of things. Tens of thousands of boxes, you know, three hundred thousand
4:15
boxes of records and a building down next door to where the aquarium is today.
4:23
And the reason this was big business in Atlanta is because office rents were
4:26
so high and these companies couldn't afford to store records on site because of what
4:30
they were paying for their square footage with office site right space. That's correct
4:34
in downtown Atlanta and the Peachtree Centers and all these big multi story buildings.
4:42
The firms just rented what they needed as far as office space for their personal
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was concerned because at that time, office rents are twenty and twenty five dollars
4:50
a square foot. That was tremendously expensive to be storing inactive or active records
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in another room that you were paying that kind of rent for it, so
5:00
early on they were using off site storage. When I stumbled on that business
5:05
in Atlanta, I saw right away that there was an opportunity to take our
5:12
marketing experience of advertising and promoting this business to another level. Because the man
5:19
that was operating it was a really wonderful man, but he was an accountant
5:24
type of person, and we approached it from a marketing service oriented so you
5:29
ended up buying his business. Yeah. I visited with him for about three
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or four weeks, and I think it was you know, we called it
5:34
a trauma center because there was so much going on that was uncontrollable, and
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he had all the records on three by five cards. There was no computerization
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that he was sophisticated enough to use, and then which we later brought in,
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you know, an IBMAS four hundred had our own programmer that did the
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work to keep up with all that. But when I suggested to him,
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I said, Ken, do you think you might be interested in buying this
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selling me your business? He said, yeah, I'd love to talk about
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that, And the next morning I brought him a contract, he signed it,
6:06
and he left. And I found out about a week later why he
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left because I had just bought an emergency room and I didn't know how to
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be a medic. But as always, and for so many of our podcast
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listeners, this is where they live, you saw an opportunity. You didn't
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know anything about his business, but you saw the opportunity and decided to act
6:29
to initiate. So then what happened, Well, we acquired that company from
6:34
him, and then as I started looking around to say, okay, if
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we're going to be in the archives business in Atlanta, Georgia, the document
6:42
storage, then I want to be the best. I want to be the
6:44
biggest, and I want to be the best known. So we're going to
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market this. So then I started looking around and there were four or five
6:50
other small mom and pop archival storage companies, and so we started working with
6:56
those people, and eventually we acquired all of them, all of them,
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and so we became the largest record center archival storage center in a top five
7:06
market in the United States that was family owned. So you purchase a business
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you don't know much about, then you purchase all the smaller versions of that
7:15
business that you are still learning about. As I heard you say one time,
7:18
this was an unsolved opportunity. Yes, yes it was, and a
7:24
very capital intensive opportunity because again you've decided not to just do this, but
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to market this. And that's what led to the next chapter in this story.
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Yes it was. And when we started acquiring all these other companies and
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then started doing a little marketing to it. When I bought the guy's business,
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all the vans were white, they didn't have their name on them,
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and I said, why don't you have your name on the side of the
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vans. They're all over town, they're all over Atlanta. He said,
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well, that's our security. We don't want people to know what we do.
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I said, well, nobody cares anything about dead records. I never
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heard of anybody holding up a truck and stealing a box of records, and
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you know, on the side of the road. So we immediately developed a
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marketing campaign. We painted all the trucks data management business records. We developed
8:13
brochures at that time to me interrupt. But you didn't just paint the sides
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of those vans. I was in your office one day and you said,
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Andy, look down there, and I don't know. We're on the tenth
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floor of wherever your office was. And I looked down and there's a data
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management van. And the reason I knew it was a data management van is
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why the logo was on top of the van. Top of the vans,
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that's right, Because you said, all these people up here in these high
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rises, they're looking down. I want them to see our data management van.
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So you put the logo on the top. That was so smart.
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We did, and at that time, my son Chuck had just graduated from
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Baylor University, and Chuck is a very erudite, articulate person and was very
8:54
good at making great communication marketing pieces. So he had just graduated from and
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I said, Chuck, I bought this trauma center and I need for you
9:01
to come out here and help me market it. And now's your one chance,
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so come on. And so he loaded up and moved to Atlanta.
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He was single at the time, and my second son, Scott, had
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started working with our company and our many warehouse divisions. So when I bought
9:20
this big archives center in Atlanta, I moved Scot up to Atlanta and he
9:24
started working in the operation side, which was managing the trucks and the drivers
9:28
and the shelving and the capital intensive part of it. Andy was keeping the
9:33
trucks running, buying new trucks, shelving. We were taking in twenty five
9:37
and thirty thousand boxes a month. New boxes, well, you couldn't set
9:43
them on the floor. So we had a shelving company that we had cut
9:46
a deal with that they were bringing weekly racks of shelving and putting them up
9:50
in these warehouses that we were renting. And that was the capital intensive part.
9:56
So at this time in our outdoor advertising business, we had become involved
10:03
with some financing people that were trying to get big national banks to finance billboard
10:11
companies and as such, so we became introduced to this bank called National Westminster
10:18
in New York that everybody was running trying to do finance billboard companies, and
10:24
so they introduced us to this company. We had at that time, you
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know, a fifteen year track record of incredible growth in the outdoor side.
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We had just got into this archive of business that they understood a little bit
10:39
about because they used themselves in New York with this Iron Mountain company up there.
10:43
So we developed this big line of credit on a non recourse basis because
10:50
they just took our whole company and they didn't require personal guarantees because it was
10:54
a cash flow lending scenario. People are renting the box, were they were
11:00
paying you to hold onto their boxes, right, we were the big side
11:03
of it was the storage side, but the really big side was the service
11:07
side because we were retrieving and delivering and picking up and scanning and going back
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and forth and picking you know, we had trucks running all over Atlanta,
11:16
Georgia. That's when I got the idea to paint the logos on the top
11:20
of the vans, because you could look out of any office building and there's
11:24
all these service vehicles down there, and ours was the only one that had
11:26
our name on the top of them. And we also had that same logo
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on our boxes. So we had boxes sitting in every major office in Atlanta,
11:35
Georgia with data management on the side. When I bought the company,
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they were just brown boxes, got no name on it. So you're running
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a gun and making lots of money. Things are great. You have this
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big line of credit. I think you said, like thirteen to fifteen million
11:48
dollar line of credit, which again, that's a lot of money, but
11:52
back in the eighties that was a whole lot of money, a lot of
11:54
money. And it's a family owned business still. And then the economy goes
11:58
flat, and that that's when there was a little bit of tension with your
12:01
new friends up in New York to pick it up there well. On cash
12:05
flow lending, they liked to have all kinds of projections and charts and graphs
12:09
and stuff, most of it beyond even the comprehension of the people asking for
12:15
it. You know, I understood it because I knew what we were doing
12:18
and what our cash flow was was going to be. If we continue to
12:22
invest the capitol in the shelving and the new billboards and the new mini warehouse
12:28
buildings, I understood how that would affect our cash flow. And we had
12:33
the plan on you know, we knew what the council cibl is going to
12:37
be. We had a great plan for managing the counter civils. So all
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these projections with this twelve fifteen million dollar line of credit was based on a
12:46
forward moving upward moment of increased cash flow, increased volume, and all of
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that growth. Yeah. Growth. Well, when the economy flattened out in
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the early nineties, the covenants that we had based on the forward moving projections
13:05
flattened out, So we were not going to be able to make some of
13:07
these financial covenants, not financial payments, but the covenants. And as they
13:13
were ramping up, then in the next year or two, the principal payments
13:16
were going to ramp up as well. So in our cash flow projecting that
13:22
we did monthly, we were projecting six months out exactly what our cash flow
13:28
needs were going to be and what our capital needs were going to be.
13:31
So we could match them up and you saw a problem looming. Yeah,
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we saw a problem coming. We saw a storm coming, and it was
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going to be a big storm if we did not it was going to be
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a major hurricane if we did not have a game plan that would address that.
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So my good friend Tom Mayfield, who at that time I had made
13:50
president of the Data Management division, as he was a banker friend, personal
13:56
friend of mine from Galveston, Texas. He had been a bank president for
14:00
twenty years. He understood all of the ramifications and inner workings of the banking
14:07
financial deal and he was a tremendous assistance to me. And I relied heavily
14:11
on him. And that's another one of your things. And you talk about
14:15
leadership, it's getting good people around you that know what they're doing, that
14:18
are experts in their arena, and delegating to them. You do a lot
14:22
of podcast on delegation. Well, delegation is important because if you're not willing
14:28
to do that, then you're relying on yourself to do everything. And I
14:33
could not do everything. So Tom says, Charlie, here's what we got
14:37
to do next June. We're not going to be able to make that increased
14:41
principal payment. We can make the entrant payments and the current principal payments,
14:46
but unless this economy turns around, we're not going to make that. We're
14:48
going to hit the wall. As we say, so, he says,
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I suggest that we call New York, say we want to come up there
14:54
next week. We want to bring you some financial information and tell you about
15:00
a game plan we got for next gene. And so that's what we call
15:05
calling the five hundred pound gorilla out of the cage. Now, this is
15:11
this became a word picture that you've talked about a lot, and anybody's listening
15:13
to me speak or listen to this podcast, I've talked about that, and
15:18
this was a big This was a big moment for me because as you were
15:20
explaining to me this is I was twenty seven, twenty eight years old,
15:24
as you're talking about all this high finance. I never understood half your stories,
15:26
but I knew they must be true and they must they must be important.
15:31
I'm you know, I'm thinking about a situation I had at work where
15:33
basically I didn't have to go to New York. I just had to walk
15:35
down the hall right and walk in the door. And open a conversation that
15:41
I was avoiding because I had become a conflict avoid I was hoping that person
15:45
would never walk down the hall and walk through my door. I was hoping
15:46
not to see them in the hall. And suddenly you're talking about buying a
15:50
plane ticket, you know, loading up with a bunch of files and starting
15:54
a conversation that you don't even want to ever have to have. You're going
15:58
to initiate that conversation. And that's when this whole imagery of walking up to
16:02
the cage opening up and inviting the five hundred pound gorilla into the room,
16:06
that's where that came from. And this was a big, big learning for
16:08
me. And I cannot tell you how many times when I have been tempted
16:11
to avoid conflict, to hope it doesn't happen, to hope it goes away,
16:15
to hope they don't discover it. I've thought to myself, No,
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I have to initiate this conversation. So you guys, load up, go
16:22
to New York, start the conversation. Tell us what happened now, well,
16:26
you know, and it's also about accountability too, because you know,
16:30
we had twelve to fifteen years of audited financial statements from the very beginning of
16:34
my company. So I had a credibility track record that I also needed to
16:40
protect. And we had great financial information within our company, as I told
16:45
these bankers, and so we're providing all this financial information for ourselves. You
16:51
just happen to be a recipient of it because it's necessary for you to make
16:56
financial lending decisions. But we're using it daily to man is this company and
17:00
the growth, tremendous growth that we're having. So we call these people up
17:04
and we said, we want to come to New York and tell you about
17:07
a situation that's going to come up next June, and how we what our
17:11
game plan is to handle that. Well, that was that was totally odd
17:15
for them to hear that kind of conversation. Usually they're having to track you
17:18
down. Yeah, yeah, I mean when when a when a lender,
17:22
when a borrower gets into trouble, the last thing he's going to do is
17:26
call his banker and say, hey, I got a problem over here.
17:29
I'm not going to be able to make my payments. And usually if he
17:30
does, he's doing it the day before the payments do. Right, So
17:34
we made the decision that we want to be way out ahead of the headlights.
17:38
We want to look down the road and around the corner, and we
17:42
wanted to keep the car keys to our business. So we figured, with
17:45
Tom Mayfield's guidance and pressent decision making abilities in this arena where he was an
17:53
absolute expert, that we needed to go initiate that. So and a lot
17:59
of people and he, like you talk about in your situation. When we
18:00
talked about it, all of us have the nature. I mean, it's
18:06
not an abnormal thing not to want to go confront a situation. It's normal
18:11
not to want to do that. But when you initiate that and you go
18:15
do that, then you take a lot of pressure off yourself, and you
18:18
take a lot of pressure off the person that you're doing that with, because
18:23
generally you're were leaving them, whether it's they were not able to do the
18:27
job or it was the way they were handling their own personnel in an environment
18:33
that you had to go communicate with them about. You take a lot of
18:36
pressure off of them by opening that cage and talking about that subject. So
18:41
we got to New York. We got to New York. By the time
18:45
we got there, we're talking to the third or fourth relationship manager, and
18:49
when they knew we were coming, they were thinking, well, maybe we
18:52
need to get another expert in here to tell us should we even continue doing
18:56
business with the people that we've just lent twelve million. And so there was
19:02
a guy in the in the room named John Bamback, and he was a
19:04
very stern I call him the black hat guys. He was very stern looking.
19:08
And we walked in and we started with our presentation because we call the
19:12
meeting, and they started interrupting us, asking us questions before we got to
19:18
the answer, and so I stopped him and I said, you have to
19:21
let me make my presentation because this is my meeting. I called this meeting.
19:26
When I get finished with my presentation, please ask us any question that
19:30
you want to ask us. So I made my presentation, and this real
19:34
stern looking guy, John Bamback, who ended up being a wonderful person in
19:38
our life, said to me, mister Renfro. He said, tell me
19:42
why you think that I should recommend to this bank that they work with your
19:47
company. And I just immediately said, well, mister Bamback, that is
19:51
a great question, and I'm so glad you answered it. Because there's two
19:56
very distinct reasons that you should make that recommend. Number one is is evidence
20:02
you can trust us. Because we called the meeting eight months ahead of Dame.
20:06
You didn't have to come looking for us. You didn't have to come
20:07
looking for us. These people here, this young lady here, who is
20:11
now the third relationship officer, has never ever had to ask us for financial
20:15
information. Matter of fact, she's calling us saying, what does this mean
20:18
that you sent me? What does this mean? How can I use that?
20:22
What does this mean? So? Number one, you can trust us?
20:25
And because Andy that it was a non recourse loan, and I knew
20:29
it. He knew that I knew it, and Tom Mayfield knew that.
20:32
He knew that we knew it. So we said, mister bamback. The
20:34
second reason that you should recommend working with our wonderful company is And then I
20:41
took the car keys out of my pocket, my car keys, and I
20:44
threw them on the desk and I said, unless you guys think you can
20:48
run a billboard company in Middle Georgia, you should work with us. And
20:55
the room went stone dead. I mean, I mean you could heard a
20:59
pin drop down to Middle Georgia. Nobody. No, really, they literally
21:03
had never been to Middle Georgia up until that time. And so he just
21:07
looked at me and I'm thinking, boy, I boogered up because he's about
21:10
to cut my throat and tell him get the keys, you know, And
21:14
he looked at me for about a minute and he just grinned and he looked
21:17
over at this young lady that was my relationship officer and said, I think
21:22
we all to work with these people. So at the end of the day,
21:26
they didn't take the car keys, you know. They let you keep
21:29
your company and you you got through this difficult time. And then the company
21:34
you mentioned earlier, Iron Mountain, came in and bought Data Management. Yeah.
21:38
Yeah, Well the good news, and thank you for reminding me again
21:44
of that, is that they did continue to work with us, and because
21:48
we continue to perform and give them the information and do the things that we
21:52
told them that we would do, and we kept going back up there.
21:55
As you recall, I remember you told him you were never going to have
21:57
to come look for us. And as a matter of fact, they after
22:00
our third trip, they said, we're guilty. We feel so guilty.
22:04
We want to come to Atlanta on the next trip and see your facility and
22:07
do that. So that really worked well. And because they did that,
22:11
because they allowed us to continue on because they trusted us, and they trusted
22:18
us, as I said earlier, because we exemplified that. We showed them
22:23
that they could trust us, and so that made a big difference to that
22:26
lending institution. So because they did that and continued to work with us and
22:32
let us expand that business continuously, we really made it into a really big
22:37
significant business in Atlanta, Georgia. Then the Olympics came and that just accelerated
22:44
everything in Atlanta, Georgia. And we owned this building downtown, the Hasting
22:51
Seed Building, which is next door to now the Aquatic Center, and we
22:57
had somebody wanted to buy that and put apart loft apartments in it. So
23:02
they paid us a fortune for that because they wanted to have it built before
23:06
the Olympics came. And then right in the middle of that, we moved
23:08
all the records over to Charlie Brown Airport and what I call an aircraft carrier.
23:15
It was a two hundred thousand square foot building and we started moving all
23:18
the records there and that's when Iron Mountain came the Olympics. All the economy
23:23
was coming back, everything was rocking and rolling, and they needed to be
23:27
in Atlanta because they were a huge national company. So they bought the company.
23:33
They bought that completely out of debt. Totally out of debt. Puts
23:34
some money in your pocket, money in everybody's pocket. And we built more
23:38
billboards and built more many warehouses. And that was a great, great ending
23:42
to that. And I think is one of the things I got out of
23:47
that whole thing is I shared with my children is that it's very important.
23:52
Showing up is ninety eight percent of anything. I tell them that all the
23:56
time. And we showed up at that bank. We had a game plan
24:00
and we were willing to work hard. So showing up having a game plan
24:06
and hard work wins, then we're gonna win well. As I mentioned at
24:10
the beginning, our relationship and this conversation actually began over breakfast and then became
24:15
a series of breakfast and so I lived with you and walked with you through
24:18
this journey. Yes, but I'll never forget the morning when I finally confided
24:23
and said, you know, Charlie, in a much smaller way, I
24:26
have a situation at work and I'm avoiding conflict. And I told you about
24:30
the situation again. It was it was embarrassingly small compared to what you had
24:36
been through. But the principle was the same. Principle was the same.
24:38
And you looked at me and you kind of brought that hand up and the
24:41
way you would do and you would point it at me, and you said,
24:44
Andy, I tell you what, when we finished breakfast, I want
24:45
you to go out there, get in your car, you drive down there,
24:48
you walk down the hall, you throw up in the door, and
24:51
you invite the five hundred pound gorilla out and you initiate that conversation. And
24:55
don't don't you avoid that anymore. And I'm telling you again, feel what
25:00
I felt that day, and it was life changing because I realized several things.
25:03
And sort of to wrap up this episode of our podcast, you have
25:08
to initiate conversations. If somebody is looking for you, go looking for them.
25:12
If somebody if you think somebody's looking for you, if you think somebody,
25:17
as you said earlier, if you think somebody is processing, how do
25:19
I confront Andy? Or how do I confront Charlie. They shouldn't have to
25:23
figure that out. We should be standing at the door. That's true leadership.
25:29
Well, and as you said, it takes pressure off of everybody,
25:32
and to some extent it throws the person that you're going to negotiate with off
25:36
balance. I mean the banker's After a while, it's like, really,
25:37
you don't need to come here anymore. We got it, we got it,
25:41
leave us alone. We know that you're not going to hide from us.
25:44
And the other thing that this illustrates is the importance of communicating early and
25:48
often, early and often. I think usually when there's pressure and there's an
25:52
emotional situation, we communicate late and very infrequently, because again we want to
25:59
avoid. So again, I think part of the takeaway is when I find
26:00
myself withdrawing, I need to remember early, off, and early often.
26:04
And then the other thing that you illustrated so well with this story is your
26:08
track record matter the reason you were able to look at them and say,
26:12
with all sincerity, you can trust us. It wasn't a promise, It
26:18
was a statement that was a punctuation on a series of events where you had
26:22
been trustworthy. So again, trust is the currency of relationship and trust is
26:29
the currency of business. Yes, and so when we need it, you
26:34
know, if we don't have it when we need it, then we can't
26:37
play that card. But you guys had a history of trust with the bank
26:41
and so when you needed it, you were able to pull it out and
26:44
they couldn't point to anything to say, no, we don't trust you now.
26:47
And you know, the very end of that story, tragically was that
26:52
we performed mightily pay them all off and all that several years later because that
26:57
bank that did not have the right principles, they folded the bank. The
27:03
bank folded, They went out of business because they either had the wrong people
27:07
in the right slot or they didn't have the right council. They didn't have
27:12
the right communication with their borrowers, and they made bad loans and bad decisions
27:18
because they didn't have trustworthy people inside the organization. And they folded. And
27:25
we're still here. You're still standing. We're still standing with it. Well,
27:29
that's it for this episode of the podcast. Make sure you join us
27:30
next month. But this wraps up our conversation with my good friend and mentor, Charlie Glynfolding