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140. Pope Innocent VIII - Anything but Innocent · Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood

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Speaker 1: Hello, delicious friends, and welcome to Who Did What Now?
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Speaker 1: The history podcast That's not Your History Class with me,
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Speaker 1: your host Katie Charlwood, History Harlotte, and reader all Books.
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Speaker 1: That being said, I don't think I could read a
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Speaker 1: book right now, even if I wanted to, Like, I mean,
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Speaker 1: I could listen to an audiobook, which counts, but I
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Speaker 1: couldn't like physically read a book. Like I can't read
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Speaker 1: a book or watch TV, like I can't focus on
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Speaker 1: things like not metaphorically or anything not like ugh, my brain.
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Speaker 1: I still feel I can't focus. I mean no, I
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Speaker 1: actually can't focus because I woke up this morning and
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Speaker 1: my right eye completely bloodshot and it was as if
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Speaker 1: someone had like smothered a lens in vaslin, Like it
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Speaker 1: was completely blurred. And I've got no peripheral on my
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Speaker 1: right side, and my depth perception is just it's not
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Speaker 1: it's not a thing currently and so here I am right,
1:01
Speaker 1: and so yeah, that's that's my situation right now. And
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Speaker 1: I am seeing an optom tomorrow, so like it's all good,
1:08
Speaker 1: got moptomologist and I have a poke in my eye
1:10
Speaker 1: and make sure everything's right. Well, I feel like poking
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Speaker 1: might not be involved but anyway, I know what you're thinking.
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Speaker 1: You're thinking, Katy, quit your jibber jabber in fact me,
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Speaker 1: in fact you I will. But first we've got to
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Speaker 1: get our sores on. Our sources are The Curious Case
1:26
Speaker 1: of Pope Innocent the Eighth by Zadravko Kiyzik, Pope Innocent
1:31
Speaker 1: the Eighth by Stella Fletcher, Pope Innocent the Eighth by
1:35
Speaker 1: Nicholas Weber, Under the Knife by Arnold van Delar, Saints
1:40
Speaker 1: and Sinners, A History of Popes by Amon Duffy, The
1:43
Speaker 1: Life of Girolamo's of Anarla by Robert Rudolphi. Witchcraft and
1:48
Speaker 1: Magic in Europe by Joy at All, For the Glory
1:52
Speaker 1: of God, Homnotheism Led to Reformation, Signs, witch Hunts and
1:56
Speaker 1: the End of Slavery by Rodney Stark. In Spain by
2:01
Speaker 1: David H. Durst, Pophistory dot com, and of course Britannica
2:06
Speaker 1: dot com.
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Speaker 2: I use it in coomfortably good. Then let's mean, so, before.
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Speaker 1: I get into anything, I was going to cover someone
2:15
Speaker 1: else this week, and then Pope Francis died and I thought, hey,
2:20
Speaker 1: here's something I can talk about with little to know.
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Speaker 1: Notes to focus on and that would be my least
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Speaker 1: favorite pope out of all the popes. He's definitely my
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Speaker 1: least favorite. Listen. In my defense, I'm a recovering Catholic
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Speaker 1: and i love history, so this is my wheelhouse. Okay,
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Speaker 1: So Pope Innocent the eighth, who was anything best? In fairness,
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Speaker 1: Innocent the Third not great either, but Innocent the Eighth
2:45
Speaker 1: is probably the shittiest pope out of all of them.
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Speaker 1: I think he may objectively be the worst. And I
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Speaker 1: know what you're thinking, that's a massive claim, Kerrie, but
2:56
Speaker 1: you know what, Let's get through this and let you
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Speaker 1: be the judge of that. So before he became pope,
3:03
Speaker 1: he was a man, and before that he was a boy.
3:06
Speaker 1: And before that he was a baby. I'm not saying
3:09
Speaker 1: babies can't be boys. I'm just saying he was a baby.
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Speaker 1: And in fourteen thirty two he was born Giovanni, but
3:18
Speaker 1: he's discible to Arano Cibo and his wife too do
3:22
Speaker 1: Reino de Mari. I'm gonna do the weird accent thing
3:26
Speaker 1: we used know me at this point, it's gonna happen.
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Speaker 1: So but from Genoa, but they're of Greek heritage, and
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Speaker 1: through his formative years his father was a Viceroy of Naples,
3:38
Speaker 1: so he's not exactly pinching pennies. And so as a
3:41
Speaker 1: young kid, he's spending his time at the Neapolitan court,
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Speaker 1: so he's exposed to this like quite young, and he's
3:47
Speaker 1: getting an understanding of just how things work, like how
3:51
Speaker 1: the wheels turn. On top of that, he's also making
3:54
Speaker 1: connections which are gonna hold him in really good steadilater on,
3:58
Speaker 1: because it's not what you know, it's how you know,
4:03
Speaker 1: which is how we get nepo babies. Fun fact, like
4:08
Speaker 1: the reason that I actually knew what nepotism was, Like
4:11
Speaker 1: how I learned it was studying popes, well, I say popes,
4:15
Speaker 1: it was actually the split of the Catholic Church, you know,
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Speaker 1: with Martin Luther, because one of his major gripes was
4:23
Speaker 1: nepotism within the church. And that's how I learned about
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Speaker 1: it as a child. But yes, nepotism. So while he's
4:34
Speaker 1: living in Naples, Giovanni, the future Pope Innocent, his dad
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Speaker 1: basically gets in the job as a canon of the
4:42
Speaker 1: Cathedral of Capua, and on top of that, he was
4:45
Speaker 1: also given the priory of Santa Maria Darba in Genoa,
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Speaker 1: so he manages to hold on to this canonry for
4:51
Speaker 1: a few years until King Alphonso dies. See what happens
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Speaker 1: is because like Giovanni, he is quite an likable person,
5:02
Speaker 1: mainly because he's insufferable and also because he's a dick,
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Speaker 1: and like he doesn't like other people either, Like he
5:09
Speaker 1: has like a really bad temper all the time, and
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Speaker 1: he's just not a pleasant guy to be around. And
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Speaker 1: so friction's mount between him and the Bishop of Genoa,
5:21
Speaker 1: sorry know, the Archbishop of Genoa, and he's just like,
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Speaker 1: you need to go now, and so he has to
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Speaker 1: resign his canonry, and so he ends up going to Padua,
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Speaker 1: and then he gets sent onto Rome to further his education,
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Speaker 1: which isn't all too surprising, Like he's already on like
5:40
Speaker 1: the path to popness. I guess the path to popnis,
5:46
Speaker 1: that's what it's called now. And so his dad, right,
5:50
Speaker 1: like when Giovanni was a teenager, he became a senator
5:54
Speaker 1: in Rome under Pope Callixtus the Third. So like wheels
5:59
Speaker 1: are being wriste here, and thus Giovanni gets himself involved
6:04
Speaker 1: in religious politics and really integrating himself with the whole
6:09
Speaker 1: papal system. And he starts off as a priest under
6:13
Speaker 1: Cardinal Calandrini, and so Cardinal Calandrini he's actually the half
6:18
Speaker 1: brother to the then Pope Nicholas the Fifth. So after
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Speaker 1: Nicholas dies, So when Nicholas the fifth dies and the
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Speaker 1: new pope comes in, Pope Paul the Second, Giovanni moves
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Speaker 1: up the rank to bishop and he becomes the Bishop
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Speaker 1: of Savona in fourteen sixty seven, now five years later,
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Speaker 1: he actually exchanges this sea, which is the name of
6:46
Speaker 1: the position, so like you are a bishop of Savona,
6:49
Speaker 1: so that is your see, Savona is your sea, and
6:52
Speaker 1: so he exchanges that to Malfetta, which is in like
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Speaker 1: southeast Italy. So during this time as a bishop, he
7:02
Speaker 1: sires two illegitimate children, and of course he's going to
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Speaker 1: feed into the roborous of nepotism and his kids now
7:11
Speaker 1: they don't like go into like religious politics, they just
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Speaker 1: go into like regular politics. So I mean, still, you know,
7:21
Speaker 1: moving up in the world, just not not in that
7:24
Speaker 1: same same level. Now Giovanni himself he is also moving
7:30
Speaker 1: up the ranks. He has gone up that ladder, that
7:33
Speaker 1: papal ladder. I very nearly almost said corporate ladder, but
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Speaker 1: that would be incorrect. So a year after making his
7:41
Speaker 1: way to Malfetta with the help of Giuliano della Revere,
7:46
Speaker 1: he is made cardinal by Pope Sixtus the Fourth. It's
7:51
Speaker 1: a way fun fact about Jiuliano della Revere, like he
7:55
Speaker 1: would go on to become a pope as well in
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Speaker 1: like three to four pops time. Like he's he's down
8:01
Speaker 1: the line a little bit, and he becomes known as
8:04
Speaker 1: the warrior Pope right, And the reason he chooses the
8:08
Speaker 1: name Julius is to honor Julius Caesar, fucking pope's man.
8:14
Speaker 1: They're all weird. So when Pope six is the fourth dies,
8:19
Speaker 1: a conclave is held, which is basically a pop vote,
8:23
Speaker 1: a vote for a pope. And here's the thing. The
8:26
Speaker 1: papal conclave of fourteen eighty four was pure chaos. It
8:32
Speaker 1: was wild, right, So there were papal factions. It's like
8:37
Speaker 1: the jets versus the sharks versus the warriors. And like
8:42
Speaker 1: a major contributing factory to all of this tension is
8:46
Speaker 1: because six is the fourth. When he was pope, he
8:49
Speaker 1: had politicized the College of Cardinals, and so it was
8:52
Speaker 1: full of like loyalists who were now divided over not
8:56
Speaker 1: only his legacy. But the direction of the church itself
9:00
Speaker 1: and the calls within the conclave, it like bleeds out
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Speaker 1: into Rome itself because you've got these powerful Roman families,
9:09
Speaker 1: particularly the Colonna and Orsini families, because they want to
9:13
Speaker 1: influence the election. So you've got one of the leading candidates,
9:17
Speaker 1: Cardinal Marco Barbo, right, he was he was not well
9:23
Speaker 1: liked because well, Pope Sixtus he had this whole isolation
9:28
Speaker 1: of Venice going on, and so he and Barbaro had
9:31
Speaker 1: like clashed so many times during the papacy. And so
9:35
Speaker 1: in order to prevent Cardinal Barbo from being elected, like
9:39
Speaker 1: the Orsinian Colonna families inserted gang violence, right, they had
9:46
Speaker 1: gangs Rome the streets, just causing mayhem, armed mobs, enforcing
9:53
Speaker 1: civil disorder. Who so purpose was to put pressure on
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Speaker 1: the cardinals and the conclave. And so you've got all
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Speaker 1: these cardinals just chomping for votes like hungry, hungry hippos.
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Speaker 1: You've got the Orsini, the Colonna, You've got Cardinal de
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Speaker 1: la Rivere. You've got Cardinal Borgia, that's right, the Cardinal Borgia.
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Speaker 1: In the end, duels are made, votes are cast, and well,
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Speaker 1: Giovanni Batista is elected Pope because he's seen as a
10:27
Speaker 1: safe choice because they're like, he's not going to cause
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Speaker 1: much travels. He's just you know, Cardinal Batista. And so
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Speaker 1: with at least two thirds of the cardinal's votes, he
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Speaker 1: becomes Pope Innocent. They eighth and they get to choose
10:46
Speaker 1: their own names. So that was his choice. And so yes,
10:51
Speaker 1: he is Pope of the Catholic Church from August twenty ninth,
10:56
Speaker 1: fourteen eighty four. So they are thought Pope Innocent. They
10:59
Speaker 1: ate going to be like a safe bet because yeah,
11:02
Speaker 1: he wasn't going to cause you know, political upheaval. Now
11:09
Speaker 1: he did. He just went right and did that. So
11:13
Speaker 1: at the time, in sort of this area within Europe,
11:16
Speaker 1: you have a lot of wars happening. In fairness, you
11:19
Speaker 1: could probably just throw a dart at a map and
11:23
Speaker 1: then just pick a year and you will probably find
11:27
Speaker 1: within five hundred miles you will find a war that's
11:30
Speaker 1: going on right Like any date whatsoever, there's a war
11:34
Speaker 1: happening somewhere in that vicinity. And so he decides what
11:39
Speaker 1: would be a really really good idea was to launch
11:42
Speaker 1: a crusade against the Turks. Now, luckily no one else
11:47
Speaker 1: gets on board. With this idea, and so there's also
11:50
Speaker 1: this rebellion against the aristocracy in Naples, which causes a
11:55
Speaker 1: whole situation and results in Pope Innocent being King. Charles
12:01
Speaker 1: the eighth had a double check which Charles it is,
12:05
Speaker 1: because they've got a lot of Charles, They've got a
12:07
Speaker 1: lot of Louise. There's a bunch of them, right, Francis
12:09
Speaker 1: Lewi Charles, just Pierre, you know, loads of them. I
12:14
Speaker 1: don't think there was a King Pierre. There should have
12:17
Speaker 1: been a King Pierre anyway, too late now, And so
12:22
Speaker 1: he's like, hey, when it comes to Italy with an
12:24
Speaker 1: army and take possession of the Kingdom of Navals. Needless
12:30
Speaker 1: to say, this was not well received by the majority
12:35
Speaker 1: of the Italian peninsula. And there's also a situation with
12:39
Speaker 1: like the Ottoman Empire. So obviously they want to bring
12:43
Speaker 1: like Christendom to the Ottoman Empire. And yeah, the sultan
12:49
Speaker 1: he's not happy about that. But the sultan has a brother,
12:52
Speaker 1: and the brother and the Sultan are basically odds because
12:56
Speaker 1: he's challenging his rule, and so the brother he ends
13:00
Speaker 1: up like fleeing to Rhodes in Greece, and he's like
13:04
Speaker 1: seeking protection from the Knights of Saint John, and he's
13:07
Speaker 1: like offering peace between, you know, the Christian side of
13:11
Speaker 1: Europe and the Ottoman Empire. But the Sultan is like
13:16
Speaker 1: two steps ahead of him, and he is paying the
13:18
Speaker 1: knights to keep him captive, and he offers to just
13:22
Speaker 1: like keep paying people to keep his brother like away
13:25
Speaker 1: from the Ottoman Empire, but like alive. But in forteen
13:28
Speaker 1: eighty nine, the brother ends up being put in the
13:32
Speaker 1: custody of Innocent the Eighth, and so whenever the Sultan
13:36
Speaker 1: threatened to like launch a campaign, he's like the Pope
13:40
Speaker 1: would just be like, I'm gonna release your brother, and
13:43
Speaker 1: we would just be like using as a deterrent, And
13:47
Speaker 1: so the Sultan ends up paying him. So he gets
13:50
Speaker 1: a yearly fee of forty five thousand ducats. On top
13:55
Speaker 1: of that, he gets a one off payment of one
13:57
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty thousand crowns. And the Holy Lance or
14:01
Speaker 1: what is supposed to be the Holy Lands, which is
14:04
Speaker 1: like the spear that was supposed to stab Jesus in
14:08
Speaker 1: the in the side when he's up on the cross.
14:11
Speaker 1: It's also the same thing that they dipped the vinegar in,
14:13
Speaker 1: like the sponge of the Vinegar like, which is a
14:16
Speaker 1: whole other story and I can explain that another time.
14:18
Speaker 1: But we were talking about this pope and now we get
14:22
Speaker 1: to the papal bull which is basically like a decree
14:27
Speaker 1: but by a pope. Yeah. Yeah, it's like it's like
14:31
Speaker 1: a pope law. Yeah. Well, you know what they say,
14:36
Speaker 1: nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. So the Spanish Inquisition, it
14:45
Speaker 1: had been going on for what six years at this point,
14:48
Speaker 1: and inquisitions they were they they were uncommon, but they
14:55
Speaker 1: weren't like everywhere, you know what I mean. And so
15:00
Speaker 1: in his very first years, pope, like within the first
15:05
Speaker 1: twelve months, he will collaborated with this German inquisitor, Heinrich Kramer. Well,
15:12
Speaker 1: I say German. It was from the German States. Now
15:15
Speaker 1: Germany as a whole didn't exist until the eighteen hundreds,
15:22
Speaker 1: the late eighteen hundreds, I can't remember, eighteen seventy something,
15:28
Speaker 1: after the Franco Prussian War. After that, after that happened,
15:33
Speaker 1: and so Heinrich he had done this investigation into upper
15:38
Speaker 1: parts of Germany. So you've got like Mainz, qun Treer,
15:43
Speaker 1: Salzburg and Bremen. I would like to officially apologize for
15:47
Speaker 1: my pronunciation. But the German R is really hard. Like
15:52
Speaker 1: I had someone say to me it was like imagining
15:55
Speaker 1: an R, a French R, dying in your throat. And
16:00
Speaker 1: that's that's a description. Yeah. And so hand Like in
16:06
Speaker 1: his investigation he is claiming that they are people both
16:10
Speaker 1: male and female, all over Upper Germany just forsaking Catholicism. Right.
16:15
Speaker 1: They are doing incantations, they're making charms, they're conjuring things,
16:23
Speaker 1: and they are doing cusses and the like. They are
16:26
Speaker 1: damaging crops and ruining minds. Year yer Ary era and Handlike.
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Speaker 1: Here he had gone to the local ecclesiastical authorities who
16:40
Speaker 1: who weren't really on board with his ideas or his authority,
16:45
Speaker 1: and so they were like, no, you can't do anything.
16:48
Speaker 1: And so he's like, I'm going to go above your head.
16:51
Speaker 1: I'm going to speak to your manager. And so he
16:53
Speaker 1: contacts the Pope, and because of this Pope innocent the
16:58
Speaker 1: eighth issue, the Papal bull sumus desidelantes effictibus. I don't
17:05
Speaker 1: speak onten, I feel like I should, ohso put that
17:08
Speaker 1: in there. So I've probably pronounced that incredibly wrong. And
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Speaker 1: so the Papal Bull states it has recently come to
17:17
Speaker 1: our ears, not without great pain to us that in
17:20
Speaker 1: some parts of Upper Germany, many persons of both sexes,
17:24
Speaker 1: heedless of their own salvation, and forsaking the Catholic face,
17:28
Speaker 1: give themselves over to devils, male and female, and by
17:31
Speaker 1: their incantations, charms and conjurings, and by other abominable superstitions
17:36
Speaker 1: and sortages of fences, crimes and misdeeds, ruin and cause
17:41
Speaker 1: to perish the offspring of women, offspring, the foe of animals,
17:46
Speaker 1: the products of the earth, the grapes of vines and
17:49
Speaker 1: the fruits of trees, as well as men and women,
17:52
Speaker 1: cattle and flocks and herds and animals of every kind,
17:55
Speaker 1: vineyards too, and orchids, meadows, pastures, harvests, gray and other
18:01
Speaker 1: throats of the earth. Which is a very long description
18:06
Speaker 1: actually to say basically what I said earlier, Like, if
18:10
Speaker 1: you listen to any of the witchcrafty stuff I've talked
18:13
Speaker 1: about before, it's really really interesting because a lot of
18:18
Speaker 1: the things that they accuse, like as witchcraft are just
18:22
Speaker 1: normal things. Like superstitions are things that we've had for centuries.
18:28
Speaker 1: Superstitions are just spooky traditions, right, It's just a healthy
18:32
Speaker 1: dose of fear right to get you through, and some
18:35
Speaker 1: of it's based on experience and anecdotal evidence, etc. But yeah,
18:40
Speaker 1: they're like step on a crack, break your mother's back,
18:43
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh no, it's a curse from a witch.
18:48
Speaker 1: Like it still makes me laugh though, because like one
18:53
Speaker 1: of the things that you have to do to become
18:59
Speaker 1: a witch is you have to you have to rim
19:04
Speaker 1: the devil, like you have to perform. It's so weird
19:08
Speaker 1: when you think about it, because it's like accusing like
19:12
Speaker 1: pestilence and drought and floods on rimming, like, ugh, the
19:22
Speaker 1: field is barren because she rimmed of rimming. And so
19:26
Speaker 1: to mention the Spanish Inquisition again, like with the Spanish Inquisition,
19:31
Speaker 1: a lot of the torture it was public and so
19:35
Speaker 1: it was not that sort of salacious way that you'd
19:38
Speaker 1: see it. Like a lot of the so called torture
19:40
Speaker 1: devices also not real. But like, the thing about this
19:46
Speaker 1: about this people bill is that this starts witch hunts,
19:51
Speaker 1: Like this is the legal like decree, This is the
19:56
Speaker 1: reason the witch hunts actually start. This is how women
20:01
Speaker 1: got bumped at the stake, how they were dunked in
20:05
Speaker 1: rivers and everything else. That went with it, like this
20:09
Speaker 1: led to trials in torture and death because of this,
20:16
Speaker 1: And so not only does the People's Bill sort of affect,
20:21
Speaker 1: you know, people who are going to be accused of witchcraft,
20:25
Speaker 1: but also it is so harsh that anyone who goes
20:31
Speaker 1: against the people will anybody who tries to stop witch hunting,
20:35
Speaker 1: like they are excommunicated, like whether excommunicated or they're like persecuted,
20:43
Speaker 1: they were accused. Like there are so many things like
20:45
Speaker 1: you can't even go, wait a minute, that's not right.
20:49
Speaker 1: But of course lack of due process, we wouldn't know
20:53
Speaker 1: anything about that. Also, Heinrich Kramer, right, you may have
21:00
Speaker 1: heard me mention his name before in the Witchy episodes.
21:04
Speaker 1: Because after this paper bull and he gets the support
21:08
Speaker 1: that he wanted, he ends up putting all of his
21:13
Speaker 1: like witchy investigation nonsense into the book Malius Maleficarum, which
21:21
Speaker 1: is basically the witch hunter's book. Now, some say that
21:26
Speaker 1: the whole reason that Pope Innocent the Eighth actually, you know, decrade,
21:32
Speaker 1: this papal bull was basically to exert his power with
21:38
Speaker 1: sort of the ecclesiastical authorities in Upper Germany, like he
21:42
Speaker 1: wanted to be like no, I'm the boss. This is happening,
21:47
Speaker 1: which feels like still not the best idea to, you know,
21:52
Speaker 1: instigate the vast abuse, torture and murder of women. Just
21:58
Speaker 1: feels like, maybe let's not do that. So the Renaissance,
22:03
Speaker 1: Pope's right, they all had different views on slavery, on
22:09
Speaker 1: enslaved people. Now a lot of the time they were like, yay,
22:14
Speaker 1: let's trade people and then we can convert them to Christianity.
22:20
Speaker 1: Saint Patrick did the same thing. Actually his first goals
22:23
Speaker 1: were like slaves and then noble women. It's a whole thing.
22:28
Speaker 1: But anyway, Pope Innocent, he agrees to trade with the
22:34
Speaker 1: Barbary slave trade, who were also known as the Barbary Pirates,
22:38
Speaker 1: like they actually sacked Baltimore in Cork, which is like
22:42
Speaker 1: apart from the Vikings as.
22:44
Speaker 2: Like the only other like slavery.
22:48
Speaker 1: From an outside force, the Vikings or the Norsemen, they
22:53
Speaker 1: took slaves all of the shop. It was just something
22:55
Speaker 1: they did, right. But the Barbary Pirates when they came
22:58
Speaker 1: to Ireland like the at one time, like that we
23:02
Speaker 1: know of it at once, and that they just never
23:04
Speaker 1: came back, like I don't know what that says about
23:07
Speaker 1: Irish people that they were like not again, lads, not again,
23:11
Speaker 1: but anyway, So back to Italy. So when an it's
23:16
Speaker 1: in the eighthies, pope, and he receives one hundred Moorish
23:19
Speaker 1: slaves from King Ferdinand of Aragon, so that's of Ferdinand
23:24
Speaker 1: and Isabella fame Isabella of Castile, Ferdinand of Aragon, and
23:29
Speaker 1: so he gives him one hundred Moorish slaves, and they
23:32
Speaker 1: are known as Moray, which means dark skinned men. And
23:39
Speaker 1: so the reason they're called Moor's right is this is
23:42
Speaker 1: the description of Muslim people in the Iberian Peninsula, right,
23:49
Speaker 1: So enslaved people from the Iberian Peninsula were called Moray,
23:55
Speaker 1: but enslaved people from Africa were called Moray nerry, which
24:01
Speaker 1: means black moles. So you've got moles and you've got
24:06
Speaker 1: black mills. So you have dark skinned men more means
24:10
Speaker 1: dark skinned men and black dark skinned men, which which
24:18
Speaker 1: seems which seems like a very strange differential, but here
24:24
Speaker 1: we are. I mean, in Irish we call black people blue,
24:30
Speaker 1: which actually comes from the term for the devil. So
24:33
Speaker 1: the term for the devil is do so, which is black.
24:36
Speaker 1: And so when black people finally made their way to Ireland,
24:40
Speaker 1: because you know, we are cold, wee island out in
24:43
Speaker 1: the Atlantic. And so when you know the population actually
24:48
Speaker 1: started diversifying enough that you weren't worried that you were
24:51
Speaker 1: going to accidentally marry your cousin, we had to come
24:54
Speaker 1: up with a new name, and so in order to
24:56
Speaker 1: not disrespect black people, they were called Gorm, which is blue.
25:03
Speaker 1: There you go. I've had a lot of Irish history
25:05
Speaker 1: facts today in this one. I wasn't expecting them. It's
25:08
Speaker 1: probably because I'm working a bit more rough hand today. Anyway,
25:13
Speaker 1: Bob in Innocent shared the Morey amongst his cardinals, and
25:17
Speaker 1: so what they were all being to do was convert
25:19
Speaker 1: them to Christianity. So basically they allowed slavery, but only
25:25
Speaker 1: if you converted those slaves to Christianity. So on top
25:30
Speaker 1: of instigating the murder of thousands of women and condoning slavery,
25:35
Speaker 1: he also made some cardinals, and he created them all
25:40
Speaker 1: in like one go, but he had two of the
25:43
Speaker 1: names like with health. They were released until after he
25:46
Speaker 1: died so that they could vote in the conclave, which
25:49
Speaker 1: was okay. So he makes what eight cardinals all in all,
25:54
Speaker 1: and these are Lorenzos cyboed to marry who shocker was
25:59
Speaker 1: his nephew, Ardugenio de la Porta, who was the papal secretary,
26:04
Speaker 1: Antonio bill A, Genie Gindile, Andre d' spine, Pierre Dobisson,
26:13
Speaker 1: Giovanni de Medici, who would go on to become Leo
26:17
Speaker 1: the Tenth, who's another. Let's he's another he is, Oh God,
26:22
Speaker 1: I've got an episode on him, Leo the Tenth, I've
26:25
Speaker 1: got a whole episode on him and his elephant. So
26:28
Speaker 1: those are the ones that were published like in a
26:30
Speaker 1: Lifetime and the two that were published after his death,
26:33
Speaker 1: where Frederico de sans Verino and Mafio Gerarde. So as
26:40
Speaker 1: he's getting older, he's getting more cantankerous, Like he's getting
26:44
Speaker 1: even more grumpy to be around. His mood swings are
26:49
Speaker 1: just all over the place, and he is just sleeping
26:54
Speaker 1: a lot, and he's also just eating. Right, he becomes
26:58
Speaker 1: incredibly obese, to the point that he can't actually move.
27:02
Speaker 1: Like the term they use was mass all flesh. He's
27:09
Speaker 1: just a mass of flesh. Now there are theories that
27:13
Speaker 1: he had several strokes later in his life. It gets
27:17
Speaker 1: to the point where he actually can't eat solid food anymore,
27:21
Speaker 1: and he has to be breastfed by young women. Now,
27:26
Speaker 1: nurse maids were a very a very common thing at
27:30
Speaker 1: the time, and somebody said, oh, what if they just
27:33
Speaker 1: like gave him like cups of breast milk, because I've
27:37
Speaker 1: seen people argue this over the time of he couldn't
27:39
Speaker 1: have actually been breastfed, and it's like, well, he could have,
27:43
Speaker 1: Like logically he could have. They could have easily brought
27:47
Speaker 1: in like a nursemaid to do it, because like, I
27:54
Speaker 1: don't think this was a point where people were like
27:56
Speaker 1: manually like pumping, Like I don't. I think breast pumps
28:00
Speaker 1: had been invented at this point. So it stands to
28:03
Speaker 1: reason that if he's going to consume breast milk, it's
28:07
Speaker 1: gonna be fresh from the teat okay, just for youre
28:12
Speaker 1: logistical purposes. So he is very ill at this point.
28:16
Speaker 1: He's sixty years old, and he is just I think
28:20
Speaker 1: struggling to live is probably the best way to put it.
28:25
Speaker 1: And they decide that they're going to try and extend
28:28
Speaker 1: what is left of his life, and they want to
28:33
Speaker 1: do a blood transfusion, which is not just not common. Now,
28:38
Speaker 1: this wasn't his decision. I want to add, because I
28:42
Speaker 1: think it's the fifteenth century conicler Stefano Infansura. He says
28:48
Speaker 1: that he was on the brink of a coma, like
28:51
Speaker 1: he's not quite with it when they decide to do that.
28:56
Speaker 1: And so they bring in three Roman boys who were
29:04
Speaker 1: all going to be paid a duck it each, you know,
29:07
Speaker 1: to give blood to the pop right, and this is
29:10
Speaker 1: seen as an honor, like it's imagine you're helping the pope, right,
29:14
Speaker 1: and you're going to earn a ducket from it, Like
29:16
Speaker 1: that's amazing. And the way it's described is there's a
29:21
Speaker 1: Jewish doctor, right, that's like they make a point. They're like,
29:26
Speaker 1: it's a Jewish doctor. He's doing this wild thing. And
29:30
Speaker 1: they say it's a blood transfusion. But they weren't doing
29:33
Speaker 1: an IV like there was no injection happening. They weren't
29:38
Speaker 1: quite that far. They hadn't figured out the tubing because
29:43
Speaker 1: Leonardo da Vinci wasn't around jet are we they he
29:47
Speaker 1: wasn't Maybe if he was, he was young, But anyway,
29:51
Speaker 1: I think like general anti Semitism is why they specifically
29:54
Speaker 1: felt the need to state Jewish doctor. So the idea
29:59
Speaker 1: is is that the Pope needs to consume like orally
30:03
Speaker 1: consume the blood of like healthy boys, and that's what's
30:08
Speaker 1: gonna like help him live because blood is a life
30:11
Speaker 1: force and you consume things to live. I feel like
30:15
Speaker 1: that's them joining the dots on this puzzle. So there
30:19
Speaker 1: were three ten year old boys and they drain blood,
30:24
Speaker 1: and so they give it to the Pope. It's sorry,
30:30
Speaker 1: I know it's such. I'm being very bitter here, but
30:32
Speaker 1: it's such. It's such a weird thing. But whatever happens,
30:37
Speaker 1: they drain too much blood. I don't know if they
30:40
Speaker 1: knew the exaguination was going to be the situation unsure. However,
30:46
Speaker 1: what I do know is that these boys died, and
30:51
Speaker 1: like so did the Pope. Like all four people involved
30:55
Speaker 1: in this process lost their lives. Like I'm, you know,
31:00
Speaker 1: more sad for the three young boys though, because I
31:03
Speaker 1: feel like they had a lot to offer the world.
31:07
Speaker 1: And on the twenty fifth of July fourteen ninety two,
31:11
Speaker 1: Pope Innocently eighth died. He was buried twice, the first
31:18
Speaker 1: time in the Oratory of Our Lady in Old Saint
31:20
Speaker 1: Peter's Basilica, which I remember from the from the Assassin's
31:27
Speaker 1: Creed Games. Then he was reburied, right, he was moved
31:32
Speaker 1: around fifteen oh seven, and he was moved to the
31:36
Speaker 1: shroud l which was adjacent to the Chapel of the
31:41
Speaker 1: Holy Lance, the Chapel of the Spear, the Jesus Spear,
31:46
Speaker 1: and like the inscription above his tomb like it had
31:49
Speaker 1: been like changed a few times, and at one point
31:52
Speaker 1: somebody like put in the word tyrant. So that's that
31:56
Speaker 1: kind of shows you the opinion. And so basically he
32:01
Speaker 1: died leaving the Papal states in such a mess like
32:05
Speaker 1: it was just it wasn't great, and so he fuked
32:10
Speaker 1: about and someone else to find out really, And so
32:13
Speaker 1: ends our story on Pope Innocent the eighth. He was
32:18
Speaker 1: followed by Pope sixth is the fourth who was lest
32:23
Speaker 1: you forget, the guy who actually got him, like the
32:25
Speaker 1: cardinal position way back, Francesco dela Rovere, who is basically
32:33
Speaker 1: had the construction of the Sistine Chapel and the creation
32:37
Speaker 1: of the Vatican Library like during his two year reign. Anyway,
32:42
Speaker 1: so ends our story of Pope Innocently eighth. If you
32:45
Speaker 1: liked my retelling of this tale of this pope, feel
32:48
Speaker 1: free to wait and review five stars. If you didn't
32:51
Speaker 1: like it, you can just say nothing, because kindness is free.
32:56
Speaker 1: I know I've been a bit shorter tonight than usual,
32:58
Speaker 1: and I hope you will forget me for that. But hey,
33:01
Speaker 1: I guess it's recommendation time. So for watching, I'm going
33:07
Speaker 1: to recommend poker Face, just because I love Natasha Leone
33:11
Speaker 1: and I think she's amazing. For reading, you know what.
33:16
Speaker 2: I'm going to do something completely different. So if you
33:20
Speaker 2: play D and D, and I have a feeling that
33:23
Speaker 2: if you're listening to me, you mte. There is a
33:27
Speaker 2: source book for D and D called Full of High Court.
33:30
Speaker 2: It's by Ben Brainard, right, and it focuses on using
33:34
Speaker 2: hit dice power abilities and it's fun.
33:38
Speaker 1: It's fun.
33:39
Speaker 2: Okay, if you play D and D in just there
33:42
Speaker 2: you go, there's an option for you. And for listening,
33:46
Speaker 2: I guess.
33:46
Speaker 1: I know I've mentioned them before, but if you're not
33:48
Speaker 1: listening to trashy Divorces, what are you doing? It's so
33:52
Speaker 1: much fun, and I'm trying to get them to guest
33:55
Speaker 1: on my show. But we keep passing each other like
33:58
Speaker 1: ships in the damn night. It's the it's our schedules
34:01
Speaker 1: just don't keep aligning. But hopefully, hopefully we can make
34:05
Speaker 1: crossovers happen like that's that's my goal. Anyway, I hope
34:10
Speaker 1: you all had a great Easter weekend, if you celebrate,
34:14
Speaker 1: and even if you don't celebrate. Who doesn't have a
34:16
Speaker 1: chocolate egg? I actually have a I have a Highland cow,
34:23
Speaker 1: because of course I do, and I'm gonna eat that
34:26
Speaker 1: at some point, but it's still like sitting there looking
34:28
Speaker 1: at me. But anyway, I am gonna I'm gonna go
34:34
Speaker 1: and edit this poorly because I can't fucking see. And
34:38
Speaker 1: I hope everything is good for everybody. Share Care, Care
34:44
Speaker 1: bears all that jazz AnyWho Adios au revoir of We
34:48
Speaker 1: to them my friends, Bibba