Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Michael Jackson: Superstar pedophile, shocking evidence continues to emerge [Part 1]

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Michael Jackson: Superstar pedophile, shocking evidence continues to emerge [Part 1] · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:04
Speaker 1: Why did it take a documentary, a Hollywood documentary to
0:09
Speaker 1: convince the world what so many of us knew at
0:13
Speaker 1: the time, And we're berated. I recall I got to
0:16
Speaker 1: hate mail, death threats, low works. First thing. Hey, I'm
0:22
Speaker 1: a Jackson fan, but Jackson's a molester. BAM crime stories
0:33
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. It just isn't fair what they put
0:42
Speaker 1: me through because there wasn't one piece of information that
0:46
Speaker 1: says I did that. But let me ask to this day,
0:49
Speaker 1: nothing still nothing. Let me ask nothing, nothing nothing nothing,
0:55
Speaker 1: I got nothing, I guess, let me ask this. And
0:58
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think how to phrase it. Though, here
1:00
Speaker 1: is a man who's been in an inordinate amount of
1:02
Speaker 1: time with these young boys. What is a thirty six
1:07
Speaker 1: year old man doing sleeping with a twelve year old
1:12
Speaker 1: boy or a series of them? Right, Okay, when you
1:15
Speaker 1: say boys, it's not just boys. And I've never invited
1:18
Speaker 1: to get some boys to come in my room. One.
1:20
Speaker 1: It's ridiculous, not that ridiculous according to California prosecutors, and
1:25
Speaker 1: not that ridiculous according to a Bombshell documentary Michael Jackson.
1:32
Speaker 1: There is no doubt about it was one of the
1:35
Speaker 1: most talented musicians in the world. But he was a
1:40
Speaker 1: child molester. What if anything can be done now? I mean,
1:46
Speaker 1: see Grace, this is crime stories. Thank you for being
1:48
Speaker 1: with us. Believe it or not, the debate still rages
1:53
Speaker 1: an you know, it's like the improverse clothes. He has
1:57
Speaker 1: one little boy after the next in his bed overnight,
2:01
Speaker 1: drinking wine with the little boy. What can nobody see?
2:07
Speaker 1: What was happening? Joining me an all star panel. Stephen Lampley, detective,
2:12
Speaker 1: author of Outside Your Door, host of crime and forensics
2:15
Speaker 1: on casey AA LA Stephen Lampley dot com. Jason Ocean's
2:20
Speaker 1: renowned defense attorney. Joining me from New York Psychoanais, Doctor
2:26
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, Doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Francy Haiks, former
2:30
Speaker 1: federal prosecutor, first ever National Coordinator for Child Exploitation Prevention
2:36
Speaker 1: and Interdiction at Francy Hikes dot com. Professor Forensics, jacksonvill
2:42
Speaker 1: State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.
2:46
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan but right now to Alexis Terrazchuk in
2:51
Speaker 1: the middle of it. Joining me from LA investigative reporter
2:55
Speaker 1: Radar Online dot com. Alexis I don't get it. You
3:01
Speaker 1: had victims lined up saying he molested me when I
3:05
Speaker 1: was a boy. He shows up to court at his pajamas.
3:08
Speaker 1: He still gets not guilty from a jury. Then, years later,
3:13
Speaker 1: after Jackson is dead, thanks Conrad Murray, his doctor, suddenly
3:20
Speaker 1: there's a Hollywood documentary. Everybody goes, oh, yeah, he was
3:23
Speaker 1: a molester. I believe it. Now what, let's just start
3:27
Speaker 1: with the documentary. Everybody wanted to meet Michael or be
3:30
Speaker 1: with Michael, and then he likes you. I was seven
3:38
Speaker 1: years old. Michael asked, do you and the family want
3:42
Speaker 1: to come to Neverland? We'd drive in and forget about
3:47
Speaker 1: all your problems. You were in Neverland. It was a fantasy.
3:52
Speaker 1: The days were filled with magical childhood adventure experiences, laying tag,
4:01
Speaker 1: watching movies, eating junk food, anything you could ever want
4:06
Speaker 1: as a child. It's like hanging out with a friend
4:10
Speaker 1: that's more your age, just kid things. They were just
4:14
Speaker 1: doing kid things. He just came across as a loving, caring,
4:19
Speaker 1: kind song. It was easy to believe that he was
4:23
Speaker 1: just that kind of a storybook, right, I'm a fairy tale. Hello, Wade,
4:30
Speaker 1: today is your birthday, So congratulations. I love you go by,
4:37
Speaker 1: there's no thoughts of this is wrong or anything like that.
4:42
Speaker 1: Told me if they ever found out what we were doing,
4:46
Speaker 1: he and I would go to jail for the rest
4:50
Speaker 1: of our lives. Secrets will eat you up. You feel
4:54
Speaker 1: so alone. I want to be able to speak the
4:58
Speaker 1: truth as loud as I had to speak the lie
5:03
Speaker 1: for so long you are hearing Leaving Neverland the documentary,
5:08
Speaker 1: Alexis tell me why the documentary was so powerful it
5:12
Speaker 1: has now changed public opinion. Leaving Neverland was the documentary
5:17
Speaker 1: that was released at Sundance and Sundance Film Festival, and
5:22
Speaker 1: it was It had two of Michael Jackson's Vixen victims,
5:26
Speaker 1: and they laid bare what they said happened to them.
5:30
Speaker 1: It was so traumatizing. I was at the premiere for this.
5:35
Speaker 1: They had counselors in the outside the theater for people
5:41
Speaker 1: if they were feeling traumatized by this show. Because these
5:45
Speaker 1: men who had been they were men. Now these were
5:48
Speaker 1: not They were no longer boys. This happened fifteen years
5:51
Speaker 1: ago to them. These were men in their thirties. They
5:53
Speaker 1: described the actions of Michael Jackson and how he molested them,
5:58
Speaker 1: and they both said about Alexis Tourez Chuck, Alexis Toures Chuck.
6:04
Speaker 1: Do you think this is a tea party? You think
6:07
Speaker 1: the queen and a Corgi's are going to march in
6:08
Speaker 1: in about five minutes and you're gonna sit down, sit
6:10
Speaker 1: to some earl grey because that ain't happening. What did
6:15
Speaker 1: the men say happened to them when they were little
6:21
Speaker 1: boys with Michael Jackson? They don't spare me details, No,
6:26
Speaker 1: what did they say exactly? They said that Michael Jackson
6:31
Speaker 1: raped them. They said that he molested them, that he
6:35
Speaker 1: fondled their genitals. They were very specific about how they
6:38
Speaker 1: would be in the bed with him, and that he
6:40
Speaker 1: would sexually assault him. Take a listen, Michael Jackson. You
6:43
Speaker 1: earlier heard him with Diane Sawyer, or here he is
6:46
Speaker 1: with Ed Bradling, And I'm gonna quote here. Why can't
6:49
Speaker 1: you share your bed? The most loving thing to do
6:51
Speaker 1: is to share your bed with with someone. As we
6:55
Speaker 1: sit here today, do you still think that it's acceptable
7:00
Speaker 1: to share your bed with children? Of course, of course,
7:05
Speaker 1: why not? If you're going to be a pedophile, if
7:08
Speaker 1: you're going to be Jack the Ripper, if you're going
7:10
Speaker 1: to be a murderer. It's not a good idea that
7:13
Speaker 1: I'm not. That's how we were raised. And I didn't
7:18
Speaker 1: sleep in the bed, but the child. Even if I did,
7:20
Speaker 1: it's okay. I set up on the floor. I gave
7:23
Speaker 1: the bed to the child. I would never stop helping
7:26
Speaker 1: and loving people the way Jesus said to He said,
7:30
Speaker 1: continue to love, always love, Bring on the children, imitate
7:35
Speaker 1: the children. My childish but childlike. Well, what's wrong with
7:41
Speaker 1: sharing your bed? I had set up in the bed.
7:44
Speaker 1: Even if I dissip in the bed, it's okay. I
7:46
Speaker 1: am not going to do anything sexual to a child.
7:50
Speaker 1: It's not where my heart is. I will slip my
7:52
Speaker 1: wrist verse. I would never do anything like that. Let's
7:56
Speaker 1: not Michael Jackson. I'm sorry. That's someone else. Okay. So
8:01
Speaker 1: who do I believe him? Or all the people now
8:03
Speaker 1: lining up saying yes it did happen, people that worked
8:07
Speaker 1: for him there in Neverland, that saw him molesting children. So, daughter,
8:13
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, I hate to drag you away from
8:16
Speaker 1: all your millionaire clients there in rodeo drive trying to
8:19
Speaker 1: figure out which pair of Lubetans to buy. Not judging,
8:23
Speaker 1: but can I use your substantial brain tell me why
8:28
Speaker 1: everybody drags Jesus into the middle of everything. Here We've
8:32
Speaker 1: got an accused child molester and he has to drag
8:35
Speaker 1: Jesus into it. You think Jesus is happy about that?
8:38
Speaker 1: And I'm certainly don't have a leg to stand on.
8:42
Speaker 1: Not speaking for Jesus, of course, I don't think you
8:45
Speaker 1: would like that very much. But why why does Jesus
8:49
Speaker 1: always You know, I'll never forget when I first started
8:52
Speaker 1: prosecuting Bethany, I always wear my cross, and I got
8:59
Speaker 1: a sign to a courtroom, one of the busiest courtrooms
9:02
Speaker 1: in inner city Atlanta, Colton County Courthouse. And as soon
9:07
Speaker 1: as the defendants saw my cross. The next week, the
9:14
Speaker 1: first one came in, I would do pretrial negotiations with
9:18
Speaker 1: the defendant himself and his lawyer. The first one came
9:21
Speaker 1: in with a giant woven cross out of felt or
9:27
Speaker 1: yarn around his neck. I mean big, like, you know,
9:30
Speaker 1: eight inches long, big hanging around his neck. And I
9:34
Speaker 1: took a look at it and just kept going. The
9:37
Speaker 1: next one came in with a yarn cross around his neck.
9:40
Speaker 1: Then the next one, Okay, you know, I still remember
9:47
Speaker 1: that moment and it was all with the public defendant.
9:49
Speaker 1: I said, what did you tell all your clients in
9:51
Speaker 1: the jail to do? Are these even the same cross?
9:54
Speaker 1: I mean they're all read well what you think? No,
9:58
Speaker 1: it's not working. I'm not an that much of an idiot.
10:01
Speaker 1: So why do they always drag Jesus into it? Nancy?
10:04
Speaker 1: I think that's really a part of unadulterated grandiosity. So
10:09
Speaker 1: if we back up for a second, if these allegations
10:12
Speaker 1: are true, and evidently they are, these young men came forward,
10:17
Speaker 1: we could look at this through the lens of pedophilia
10:20
Speaker 1: of Michael Jackson being a sex offender. And the definition
10:24
Speaker 1: of pedophilia is that there is more than five years
10:28
Speaker 1: age difference between the perpetrator and the victim. The victims
10:32
Speaker 1: are generally prepubescent, although the age may vary, and the
10:37
Speaker 1: perpetrator attaches themselves sexually to the victim until the victim
10:41
Speaker 1: grows up and ages out, and then they choose newer,
10:45
Speaker 1: younger victims. So we're thinking about this in terms of pedophilia,
10:49
Speaker 1: but let's think about it in terms of criminality, which
10:52
Speaker 1: is what you're talking about. Criminals are very grandiose. They
10:56
Speaker 1: want to be sitting at the right hand of God,
10:58
Speaker 1: because then they can justify their actions. I mean, who
11:01
Speaker 1: can argue with you if you're God's emissary, if you're
11:05
Speaker 1: praying to God's every day, and if when you give
11:08
Speaker 1: your the children your molesting wine, you call it Jesus juice.
11:11
Speaker 1: Do you remember that Michael Jackson called the wine Jesus juice?
11:15
Speaker 1: So he was fond of calling upon the name of
11:18
Speaker 1: the Lord, let's say, in order to justify his actions.
11:38
Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace. Michael Jackson got out of
11:48
Speaker 1: a car behind the Santa Barbara County Jail in handcuffs.
11:52
Speaker 1: His lawyer said, the singer is enraged. He considers this
11:55
Speaker 1: to be a big lie. He understand the people who
12:01
Speaker 1: are outraged, because if these charges were true, I assure
12:04
Speaker 1: you Michael would be the first to be outraged. Jackson
12:07
Speaker 1: had arrived on a private jet from Las Vegas. The
12:10
Speaker 1: plane rolled its nose into a hangar, where Jackson got
12:13
Speaker 1: into a waiting car out of view of television cameras.
12:17
Speaker 1: He was taken into custody there at the airport. Jackson
12:20
Speaker 1: had his mug shot taken and he was fingerprinted. Here
12:24
Speaker 1: at the county jail, before he posted a three million
12:27
Speaker 1: dollar bond. You are hearing what happened when Jackson pulled
12:31
Speaker 1: in and stepped out of a private hangar in a
12:33
Speaker 1: private jet. This is ABC News correspondent Brian Mooney. So Jason,
12:37
Speaker 1: notions New York defense attorney, why is he so outraged?
12:40
Speaker 1: He's charged with felony child molestation? Boy witnesses are aligned
12:44
Speaker 1: up to testify what he thinks. He shouldn't be fingerprinted
12:47
Speaker 1: and the reason photos were taken of his nude body,
12:50
Speaker 1: I might add, is because there were, according to police,
12:55
Speaker 1: identifiable markings in his growing area. I think, as I recall,
13:00
Speaker 1: I had something to do with a skin disorder that
13:02
Speaker 1: the little boys could describe. So what are they? Why
13:06
Speaker 1: are they able? It's like you're in Vanderslout describing alle
13:09
Speaker 1: Halloway's underwear. Why why would they know about skin markings
13:14
Speaker 1: or discoloration in his genital area? Jason? Why shouldn't he
13:19
Speaker 1: be handcuffed, fingerprinted and photos? Well he should have been.
13:23
Speaker 1: He was. He was charged and arrested and processed that well,
13:28
Speaker 1: So why is gey Goes so angry? Quote outraged? In rage?
13:32
Speaker 1: That's uh, that's the job. I mean, you're you're you're
13:35
Speaker 1: playing towards the media. I mean, this isn't just a
13:38
Speaker 1: small town case. This is huge. This is theater, it's production.
13:43
Speaker 1: Everything is about to Michael Jackson. Uh, you know, why
13:46
Speaker 1: wouldn't you be outraged on the behalf of your client
13:49
Speaker 1: and indignant much like he was in the Ed Bradley interview. Uh,
13:54
Speaker 1: much more soft spoken than uh, you know, defense counsel
13:57
Speaker 1: Garrit Goes. But nonetheless the angle that you have Michael's
14:02
Speaker 1: card was, you know, the lord and acting childlike and
14:07
Speaker 1: Garat Gos's you know, just indignant. This is Michael Jackson.
14:11
Speaker 1: I could you possibly think that? Well? As a matter
14:14
Speaker 1: of fact, he was arrested. Take a listen to the
14:18
Speaker 1: District attorney. Yesterday morning, at around eight thirty am, investigators
14:22
Speaker 1: from the Santa Barbara County Sheriff's Department in Santa Barbara
14:25
Speaker 1: District Attorney's Office served the search warrant at Neverland Ranch
14:28
Speaker 1: and Los of Levos. Simultaneous to the service of the
14:32
Speaker 1: warrant at Neverland Ranch, two search warrants were also served
14:36
Speaker 1: in southern California. Approximately seventy investigators from the Sheriff's Department
14:41
Speaker 1: and the District Attorney's office were involved in the service
14:44
Speaker 1: of this warrant at Neverland Ranch. The operation was concluded
14:49
Speaker 1: around eleven pm last night. The service of the warrants
14:55
Speaker 1: was part of an ongoing investigation alleging the criminal misconduct
14:59
Speaker 1: on the part of Michael Jackson. The basis for this
15:02
Speaker 1: investigation regarding mister Jackson involves allegations of child molestation to
15:08
Speaker 1: eighty eight A of the California Petal Code. Additionally, I
15:12
Speaker 1: don't know, rest warrant for mister Jackson has been issued
15:16
Speaker 1: on multiple accounts of child molestation. The bail amount on
15:21
Speaker 1: the warrant has been set at three million dollars too.
15:25
Speaker 1: Just Ascott Morgan, forensics expert, exactly what are they looking
15:28
Speaker 1: for at Neverland Ranch. Well, they're going to look for
15:32
Speaker 1: anything that's going to tie Michael Jackson back to these
15:37
Speaker 1: crimes that he is alleged to have committed. And we're
15:40
Speaker 1: talking about any kind of videography evidence if he film anything.
15:45
Speaker 1: Is there any kind of fiscal evidence that's been left
15:47
Speaker 1: behind that would tie him back to these activities that
15:51
Speaker 1: he's involved in relative to these kids, and also is
15:55
Speaker 1: there any kind of are there any kind of pornographic
16:00
Speaker 1: images that are there let's say, for instance, child pornography.
16:04
Speaker 1: That's there because many times these individuals that engage in
16:08
Speaker 1: this behavior are collectors. They fantasize about this, They think
16:11
Speaker 1: about this all the time, so they go around collecting things.
16:14
Speaker 1: And if he's got specific victims, is there a chance
16:17
Speaker 1: that he photographed them, Is there a chance that he
16:20
Speaker 1: videotaped them so he could go back and relive these experiences. Well,
16:24
Speaker 1: of course, this was not the first time Superstar Michael
16:28
Speaker 1: Jackson had been investigated. Listen, I want to make several
16:32
Speaker 1: things clear about why this is different from the last investigation.
16:37
Speaker 1: Number One, it is different because the law in California
16:42
Speaker 1: has changed, and it was changed specifically because of the
16:45
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three ninety four Michael Jackson investigation. The law
16:49
Speaker 1: in California at that time provided that a child victim
16:53
Speaker 1: could not be forced to testify in a child molesque
16:57
Speaker 1: proceedings without their permission and consent and cooperation. As a
17:03
Speaker 1: result of the Michael Jackson case, the legislature changed that
17:06
Speaker 1: law and that is no longer the law in California. Secondly,
17:12
Speaker 1: as you all know, or most of you know, either
17:15
Speaker 1: from being involved or knowing about that investigation. There were
17:19
Speaker 1: never any charges brought in that investigation nor warrant issue.
17:24
Speaker 1: There is a warrant outstanding, and I can assure you
17:26
Speaker 1: that within a very short period of time, there will
17:30
Speaker 1: be charges filed against mister Jackson multiple counts. Two Radar
17:34
Speaker 1: Online dot Com investigative reporter Alexis Terreschuk ninety four. None
17:40
Speaker 1: of the witnesses would testify, they would not come forward,
17:46
Speaker 1: but things started to change. Let me ask you in
17:51
Speaker 1: the ninety three ninety four investigation, what were the allegations
17:56
Speaker 1: the same as every other allegation that he had him
17:59
Speaker 1: in a bad that he slept with him, that he
18:01
Speaker 1: followed him, that he sexually assaulted him to Stephen Lampley,
18:04
Speaker 1: detective and author of Outside Your Door, host of crime
18:08
Speaker 1: and Forensics casey A in La. Stephen, do we know
18:12
Speaker 1: the name of the alleged victim in ninety three, Yeah,
18:15
Speaker 1: that was a twelve year old boy named Jordan Chandler Nancy.
18:20
Speaker 1: I assume he would not testify. He did give a
18:23
Speaker 1: description of Jackson's genitals and have been presented to the
18:28
Speaker 1: jury along with the actual description of Mike's Michael's genitals.
18:33
Speaker 1: The jurors felt that they did not match in this instance,
18:37
Speaker 1: but Jackson went ahead and settled for twenty three million
18:40
Speaker 1: dollars with the understanding that this was not admitting guilt.
18:44
Speaker 1: This is just, you know, to get rid of the
18:47
Speaker 1: trial and let's go back to living our lives frid
19:04
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. Did you ever, as this young
19:14
Speaker 1: boy said you did, did you ever sexually engage fondle
19:20
Speaker 1: have sexual contact with this child or any other child?
19:25
Speaker 1: Never ever. I could never harm a child or anyone.
19:28
Speaker 1: It's not in my heart. It's not who I am,
19:31
Speaker 1: and it's not what I mean. I'm not even interested
19:34
Speaker 1: in that. Why did you settle the case? And it
19:36
Speaker 1: looks to everyone as if you paid a huge amount
19:39
Speaker 1: of money that I talked to my lawyers and I said,
19:44
Speaker 1: can you guarantee me that justice will prevail? And they said, Michael,
19:48
Speaker 1: we cannot guarantee you that a judge or a jury
19:50
Speaker 1: will do anything. And with that I was like catatonic.
19:53
Speaker 1: I was outraged. How much money? Totally outrage. So what
19:57
Speaker 1: I said, I have got to do so something to
20:00
Speaker 1: get out from under this nightmare. We got together again
20:03
Speaker 1: with my advisors and the advised meets hands down a
20:06
Speaker 1: unanimous decision resolved the case. This could be something that
20:10
Speaker 1: could go on for seven years. Okay, do you believe
20:12
Speaker 1: him or do you believe this? Okay? Okay. He said
20:19
Speaker 1: he want to show me, master me. He wanted to
20:23
Speaker 1: show you how to master pay. Okay, okay, he said,
20:29
Speaker 1: you do it for me? Okay, and did you do
20:33
Speaker 1: it for you? Go get cabin. It's fine, but he's
20:46
Speaker 1: hand in pats. Did you put it on the outside inside?
20:51
Speaker 1: And what did you do next? He started started master me? Okay, yes,
21:04
Speaker 1: stop until that is just one of the reason you
21:09
Speaker 1: charges were brought. After the twenty three million dollar settlement
21:14
Speaker 1: with another little boy's family, You were hearing sex victim
21:19
Speaker 1: then a little boy, Gavin or Viso speaking to police
21:24
Speaker 1: to Francy Hayks joining me, former federal prosecutor, Francy, it
21:28
Speaker 1: just it just makes my skin, the here on my
21:33
Speaker 1: neck just rises up just hearing this. You think they
21:38
Speaker 1: wanted to go up against Michael Jackson. No, but when
21:41
Speaker 1: you hear a victim speak about what Jackson did to him,
21:47
Speaker 1: you have to seek justice. Why that jury let Jackson go,
21:51
Speaker 1: I will never know. But this is a kind of
21:54
Speaker 1: interview you hear every day Francy. Well, that's right, Nancy,
21:58
Speaker 1: And one of the most significant things we just heard
22:01
Speaker 1: was from Michael Jackson himself when he was answering questions,
22:04
Speaker 1: I would never harm a child. This is classic defense
22:08
Speaker 1: from those of the sexual interests in children, because they
22:11
Speaker 1: truly believe that their sexual interests in children is reciprocated
22:16
Speaker 1: by the child, and that that kind of sexual activity,
22:20
Speaker 1: but that illegal sexual activity, that deviant sexual activity between
22:24
Speaker 1: them and children, isn't harmful to the child. So Michael
22:28
Speaker 1: Jackson may very well have been telling his version of
22:31
Speaker 1: the truth that he did not harm a child, because
22:33
Speaker 1: in his mind, sexual abuse of children isn't harmful, but
22:38
Speaker 1: it absolutely makes your skin crawl. And these children all
22:42
Speaker 1: tell the same consistent story of the pattern and practice
22:47
Speaker 1: of Michael Jackson, which is classic grooming behavior, bringing the
22:51
Speaker 1: children in, plying them with alcohol, bringing them to the ranch,
22:54
Speaker 1: providing them with gifts, giving himself this kind of stature.
22:59
Speaker 1: He is a classic acquaintance defender, and the jury just
23:03
Speaker 1: simply could not withstand the wattage of his star power
23:08
Speaker 1: and they disregarded the true story of these children. Well,
23:12
Speaker 1: you were hearing Gavin Arvizo describing what Jackson did to
23:16
Speaker 1: him as a little boy. Now take a listen to
23:18
Speaker 1: our friend at CBS, Gail King as she speaks with
23:21
Speaker 1: another then boy, Wade Robson that first night, Michael just
23:26
Speaker 1: kind of took us on a little bit of a
23:28
Speaker 1: tour and he said to me and my sister, you
23:31
Speaker 1: can stay in one of the guest rooms, or you
23:33
Speaker 1: can stay in here with me if you want. And
23:36
Speaker 1: my reaction was, of course, I want to stay with you.
23:39
Speaker 1: We had one more night that way, myself and my
23:43
Speaker 1: family were going to leave and go on another kind
23:45
Speaker 1: of vacation to the Grand Canyon. I was devastated to
23:50
Speaker 1: leave Michael. Michael was devastated for me to leave. He
23:54
Speaker 1: actually sobbed, say you got to stay, So I got
23:56
Speaker 1: to stay. And so it was just Michael and I
23:59
Speaker 1: never landed for the next week, and your parents allowed that.
24:02
Speaker 1: My parents allowed that. Within even the first or second
24:06
Speaker 1: night of Michael and I being alone at Neverland, the
24:09
Speaker 1: night started changing. One of the ways I remember it
24:12
Speaker 1: starting is, you know, Michael just sort of starting to
24:16
Speaker 1: touch my legs and touch my crotch over my pants.
24:22
Speaker 1: It progressed to him performing oral sex on me, him
24:27
Speaker 1: showing me how to perform oral sex on him. It's
24:32
Speaker 1: I don't even know how to respond to that exactly
24:37
Speaker 1: to doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst. I know I'm way overprotective,
24:43
Speaker 1: but why would you leave your child with a grown
24:47
Speaker 1: man and let him sleep in the room with him? Nancy,
24:49
Speaker 1: It's inexplicable to me that any parent would do this.
24:53
Speaker 1: You know, they must have been swayed by his celebrity.
24:57
Speaker 1: They must have imagined that nothing would go wrong. But
25:00
Speaker 1: you know, the Neverland ranch was there to groom children
25:05
Speaker 1: and their families, right, because this is what pedophiles do.
25:09
Speaker 1: They don't just groom the child like with Robson. You know,
25:12
Speaker 1: his sister was there, his entire family was there. In
25:15
Speaker 1: almost every victim instance, the entire family was brought to Neverland.
25:21
Speaker 1: And I think that not only did he prey on children,
25:24
Speaker 1: but he preyed on vulnerable families. You might want to think, Nancy,
25:28
Speaker 1: that for every family who allowed their child to spend
25:33
Speaker 1: the night, there may have been twenty others who didn't.
25:37
Speaker 1: So these sex offenders, like Michael Jackson there are prolific
25:41
Speaker 1: in their offending. There's one stat that male on boy
25:45
Speaker 1: sex offenders offend on average five hundred and sixty two
25:49
Speaker 1: times throughout the lifespan. So we're just seeing the outliers,
25:54
Speaker 1: these parents that turned the blind eye. But it would
25:57
Speaker 1: be interesting to know about all the kids that got
25:59
Speaker 1: away and all the parents that said no. And we're
26:02
Speaker 1: protective of their of their children. That's another story, right, Well,
26:05
Speaker 1: it just goes on and on. His pool of victims
26:10
Speaker 1: is very far reaching. Listen to our frankielle King. He
26:14
Speaker 1: introduced me to masturbation, he said, I taught him out
26:18
Speaker 1: of French kiss, and then it moves on to oral sex.
26:23
Speaker 1: But you frightened or thinking this is weird or wrong. No, No,
26:28
Speaker 1: it's in the context of a loving, close relationships and
26:32
Speaker 1: there's no alarm bells going off in your head or
26:35
Speaker 1: any thoughts like that. Really, it's just I love this
26:37
Speaker 1: person and we're trying to make each other happy. He said,
26:42
Speaker 1: I was his first. But even as a kid, you
26:44
Speaker 1: don't even know what that means. So your lovers and
26:47
Speaker 1: your best friends, what does it mean? James, you're in
26:49
Speaker 1: a relationship and your lovers you're a little boy, right
26:52
Speaker 1: and he's a thirty something man and you're a little boy.
26:56
Speaker 1: Because at that age. How do you even know what
26:57
Speaker 1: that means? You don't You just feel really connected to
27:02
Speaker 1: someone and you just love them intensely. Crime Stories with
27:18
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. He introduced me to masturbation, he said, I
27:26
Speaker 1: taught him out of French kiss, and then it moves
27:30
Speaker 1: on to oral sex. But it's you frightened or thinking
27:34
Speaker 1: this is weird or wrong. No, no, it's in the
27:37
Speaker 1: context of a loving, close relationships and there's no alarm
27:41
Speaker 1: bells going off in your head or any thoughts like that. Really,
27:44
Speaker 1: it's just I love this person and we're trying to
27:48
Speaker 1: make each other happy. He said. I was his first.
27:51
Speaker 1: But even as a kid, you don't even know what
27:53
Speaker 1: that means. So your lovers and your best friends, what
27:56
Speaker 1: does it mean, James, you're in a relationship and your
27:58
Speaker 1: lovers you're a little boy, and he's a thirty something
28:02
Speaker 1: man and you're a little boy. Because at that age,
28:05
Speaker 1: how do you even know what that means? You don't
28:08
Speaker 1: You just feel really connected to someone and you just
28:12
Speaker 1: love them intensely. Well, that was yet another then boy
28:16
Speaker 1: victim James save Chuck speaking to Gail King. It goes
28:21
Speaker 1: on and on. What I don't understand is how a
28:26
Speaker 1: jury managed to turn away from the evidence. Alexis to
28:30
Speaker 1: rest Chuck joining US investigative reporter Radar online dot com. Alexis,
28:34
Speaker 1: what exactly were the charges the second set of charges,
28:39
Speaker 1: they were childless seas and child assaults to Francy Haig,
28:44
Speaker 1: former federal prosecutor way In Francy Well Nancy. They were
28:47
Speaker 1: California's version of statutes you and I would be very
28:50
Speaker 1: familiar with from Georgia, which would have been sixteen dash
28:53
Speaker 1: six dash four child molestation that is actually engaging in
28:58
Speaker 1: some kind of illicit sexual activity with a child. They
29:01
Speaker 1: have very specific definitions, and here the definitions included actually
29:09
Speaker 1: touching the genitals of the child and performing oral sex
29:13
Speaker 1: on the child, and having the child perform oral sex
29:16
Speaker 1: on Michael Jackson. There were very serious charges, and what's
29:21
Speaker 1: so unbelievable to me is that a jury just completely
29:25
Speaker 1: disregarded the consistent testimony of the child and his brother
29:32
Speaker 1: and his family members, especially when you take into context
29:37
Speaker 1: all the statements that by that point Michael Jackson had
29:40
Speaker 1: made that he didn't even hide about sleeping with children.
29:45
Speaker 1: I think this is pure and simple. This was a
29:47
Speaker 1: case of jury nullification. I think that It is a
29:50
Speaker 1: classic example, Nancy that you and I would have faced
29:53
Speaker 1: as prosecutors in the nineties, where you had juries who
29:57
Speaker 1: just did not want to believe children. They did not
30:00
Speaker 1: want to believe child sexual abuse existed. And when you
30:04
Speaker 1: took a celebrity and put him in that mix, there
30:07
Speaker 1: was no way that we're going to convict someone of
30:09
Speaker 1: a crime that they didn't understand, didn't want to look at,
30:13
Speaker 1: and didn't even think existed. Let me respond with the
30:17
Speaker 1: actual charges against Michael Jackson. Now we know the investigation
30:25
Speaker 1: in ninety four led to nothing, but Jackson was ultimately
30:30
Speaker 1: indicted on four counts of molesting a minor, four counts
30:34
Speaker 1: of intoxicating a minor in order to molest him, one
30:39
Speaker 1: count of attempted child molestation, one count of conspiring to
30:44
Speaker 1: hold a boy in his family captive, and conspiring to
30:48
Speaker 1: commit extortion and child abduction. Jackson found not guilty on
30:54
Speaker 1: all of these. To Alexis Terrez, Chuck and regular people talk,
30:59
Speaker 1: what does all that? Who was the victim in the
31:01
Speaker 1: ultimate charges. The victim was a boy named Gavin r Viso.
31:05
Speaker 1: He and Michael Jackson had met. He had cancer. Michael
31:09
Speaker 1: Jackson found out that this little boy had cancer, started
31:11
Speaker 1: sending his family gifts and showering them with attention. Then
31:15
Speaker 1: brought them to Neverland. They brought Gavin, his brother, his mom,
31:20
Speaker 1: and his dad. They all testified during this trial. And
31:25
Speaker 1: though everybody is saying is they don't understand jury nullification.
31:29
Speaker 1: What happened was for some reason, this jury hated Gavin's mother.
31:34
Speaker 1: They said that she was combative on the stand. They
31:36
Speaker 1: didn't like her, and they believed that she had made
31:39
Speaker 1: her son lie about this. This is what a juror
31:43
Speaker 1: from Santa Monca, California said, I could never imagine being
31:46
Speaker 1: the kind of mother who would have the more who
31:48
Speaker 1: would teach my children such bad morals. They believe that
31:51
Speaker 1: this mom told her son to lie about it, and
31:54
Speaker 1: they kept saying it was for money. Gavin's family never
31:57
Speaker 1: asked Michael Jackson for any money. This was something that
32:01
Speaker 1: his lawyer said on the sand. There was no evidence
32:03
Speaker 1: to this, and this is what the jurors believed at
32:06
Speaker 1: the time. What did they mean in the charges by
32:08
Speaker 1: conspiring to hold the boy and his family captive and
32:11
Speaker 1: conspiring to commit extortion and child abduction so he was
32:15
Speaker 1: They were saying that they brought them to Neverland and
32:18
Speaker 1: that they didn't have a lot of money. Michael Jackson
32:20
Speaker 1: obviously had a ton of money, and that he wouldn't
32:22
Speaker 1: let them leave, and he kept saying, Oh, no, just
32:25
Speaker 1: stay here, just stay here. It won't be anything. So
32:27
Speaker 1: the prosecutors had said that he held them captive, and
32:30
Speaker 1: then he would say, Oh, don't tell anybody, because the
32:33
Speaker 1: media will turn all this into something bad, and that
32:35
Speaker 1: is the extortion. The police will look at me and
32:38
Speaker 1: they all think this is bad when this is just
32:40
Speaker 1: something so wonderful at innocent, as Michael Jackson always says,
32:43
Speaker 1: did jury dislike Gavin's mom take a listen to ABCGMA.
32:49
Speaker 1: She would look at the jury and its and after
32:51
Speaker 1: figures and say, you know, this is the way it
32:53
Speaker 1: should be. Yes. That was very expimidating because I was
32:57
Speaker 1: directly Mike and I were directly across from the witnesses,
33:01
Speaker 1: and she would turn right to us like she's just
33:04
Speaker 1: you know, but Melissa, what did that say to you?
33:06
Speaker 1: I mean, apart from how it made your fit, what
33:08
Speaker 1: did that say to you about what who she was?
33:10
Speaker 1: And the testimony she gave m her testimony, A lot
33:14
Speaker 1: of the parts of her testimony. I wanted to just
33:17
Speaker 1: break out laughing, but I couldn't. You know, her m
33:22
Speaker 1: she was up and down, up and down, and the
33:25
Speaker 1: parts that I felt that she should have been more,
33:29
Speaker 1: you know, more emotional about, she wasn't. So it's just
33:35
Speaker 1: not incredible your thing. That's just so hard for me
33:38
Speaker 1: to take. In to doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst in Beverly Hills,
33:43
Speaker 1: I wonder how that juror feels now after leaving Neverland
33:48
Speaker 1: the documentary comes out. It persuades the world Jackson was
33:52
Speaker 1: a child molester, and she says the molestation of victim's
33:56
Speaker 1: mother made her want to break out laughing. You know, Nancy,
34:00
Speaker 1: there's a saying in the field of law, there are
34:03
Speaker 1: no model plaintiffs, right. Just because you bring somebody in
34:06
Speaker 1: as a plaintiff doesn't mean that they're likable. And this
34:10
Speaker 1: juror should feels shame. She fixated on Gavin's mother's personality
34:15
Speaker 1: characteristics rather than the fact that a little boy was
34:19
Speaker 1: likely molested. And this is a common mistake the jurors make.
34:23
Speaker 1: And if I'm correct about this, Gavin's mother was also
34:26
Speaker 1: unwelfare and Mather wove this long tail and dug into
34:32
Speaker 1: the mother's history and found out that she had committed
34:35
Speaker 1: some kind of welfare fraud, and he paraded this in
34:38
Speaker 1: front of the jury, and he convinced him that the
34:40
Speaker 1: mother was not trustworthy, that she was unlikable. And the
34:47
Speaker 1: jurors got so fixated on the mother's character traits that
34:53
Speaker 1: they were blinded and they did not look to the
34:56
Speaker 1: reality of what might be happening. And Nancy the re
35:00
Speaker 1: he was right in front of them. I mean, Neverland
35:03
Speaker 1: was a pedophiles playground. As I said earlier, he used
35:07
Speaker 1: it money to Broomschidren. I mean he had a fairris
35:11
Speaker 1: wheel and you know, a whole whole circus, fairround set
35:16
Speaker 1: up over there. But he used it to groom the
35:19
Speaker 1: entire family, and instead, sadly, the jurors fixated on the
35:23
Speaker 1: mother's character rather than the child's testimony. Tomorrow on crime
35:29
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace, one little boy after the next
35:33
Speaker 1: in his bed overnight, drinking wine with the little boy.
35:38
Speaker 1: What did nobody see what was happening? Why did it
35:41
Speaker 1: take a documentary, a Hollywood documentary to convince the world.
35:48
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson's sex abuse accusers can now sue his company's
35:53
Speaker 1: following a court appeal, We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy
36:01
Speaker 1: Grace crime story, signing off goodbye friend M.