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Shapiroworld by Strictly Business · Strictly Business

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You're listening to Strictly Business Podcast with Lindsay Williams.
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It's Monday, so it's time for Shapiro World with David Shapiro from Sassfin
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Securities in Johannesburg.
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David, welcome back.
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First of all, you missed Taylor Swift's wedding.
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That was the only thing that I thought about when I saw it.
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And I loved her timing because she's obviously not a big fan of Trump and
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neither he of her.
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And she sort of tried to steal the show on July the 4th, didn't she?
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It was a definite strategy.
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But anyway, New York looked really good fun.
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I'm sure she did that.
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I'm sure there was something around that, you know, that it should be on July the
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3rd.
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And believe me, the security arrangements ahead of the wedding were incredible, you
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know,
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as they are for any kind of major event.
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And it goes on at a time where...
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New York is very crowded.
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A lot of tourists there, particularly around the World Cup.
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So I'm not sure why she chose Madison Square Garden.
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She's not a New Yorker.
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She's not a natural.
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I think she comes from Carolinas or somewhere down there.
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I'm not sure.
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I like her.
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I've got nothing against her.
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I think she's a marvelous entertainer.
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But I'm not a big fan in the sense that I listen to her music or anything like that.
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She's cheap.
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presents herself well.
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This won't end in, you know, this is a, I don't know, maybe three, four, five years,
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they'll be divorced or something like that.
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Oh, that's nice, David.
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Don't you think she's a homely sort of gal and he seems like a nice fellow?
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They'll have babies.
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Yeah, she's too clawing.
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No, she's too clawing.
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You know, if you listen to her music as well, it's all about people rejecting her
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and it's,
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she's not...
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She's not like the Rolling Stones or anything like this, you know, really
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rough, good rock or anything like that.
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And he's past his prime.
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You know, I don't know whether he's got another one or two seasons, and that makes
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it very difficult, because I think she's
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an enormously popular figure.
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And, you know, wherever she goes, I think it must be very difficult.
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to spend your life with somebody like that, you know.
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And he's going to be out the limelight in a year or two.
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Somebody that doesn't know much about Taylor Swift or listens to her music, you
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seem to know a lot about her music and the lyrics, a lot about
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her life.
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But that's you, David.
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You're an analyst.
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No, you know why?
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You know what I do?
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I use Spotify.
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So I'd go into Spotify and I'm quite electric and I'd say, okay, top hits, you
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know, and
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sure, she's… Taylor Swift will be there and you'll hear.
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But all of them, Olivia Rodrigo and all of that, always moaning about the boys, you
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know, the men messing
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around.
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Oh, God.
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You know, just whining and whining, you know, just this.
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So, you know, for that reason, I said, just get on with it, man.
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Okay, let's just get on with it as well.
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So that's my Taylor Swift.
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But my grand...
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Daughter, I mean, and hey, they're major Swift supporters.
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They're Swifties.
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Swifties, yeah.
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David, Microsoft has just announced it's cutting 2.1% of its workforce.
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I don't know how much.
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It's not a massive number, but it's a significant number because it's Microsoft.
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The other thing that happened on the jobs front while you were swanning around in
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the United States of America was that
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Volkswagen in Germany announced finally that they're closing four plants.
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four plants, 100,000 people out of their 600 and something
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thousand workforce globally.
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100,000 people suddenly wake up and say and know that they're not going to have a
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job either in three months' time or one
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year's time.
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It's an awful lot of people on the street.
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It's, you know, for Volkswagen it's very big.
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I don't know whether these people will be replaced by robotics.
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in some form in factories as they go more digital, not digital, but electronic.
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What's the word?
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They go more robotic.
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Yes.
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And I don't know whether it's around that and where manufacturing goes.
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I think manufacturing globally is going to go that way.
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Modern factories are going to be completely different to the old-type
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factories.
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But I think it also has to do with the Chinese and the way that they've taken
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over the market.
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And it's very difficult.
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All those...
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The motor manufacturers that we knew from Mercedes to Volkswagen all have
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to re-look at their futures.
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I mean, things are changing, Lindsay.
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Where these people are going to find their jobs, I'm not quite sure if they are in
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areas where jobs are
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available, manufacturing jobs.
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But it's a big number.
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You know, it's a massive number.
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I think in the US, a lot of the jobs are still around hospitality.
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And I think that's why they slowed down, having employed people just ahead of the
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holidays, particularly for events like the World
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Cup.
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But the market just kind of brushed that aside.
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I don't think it had any major impact on the market.
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But I just, you know, I keep saying to you, I just found where we're going into
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and, you
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know, where we're heading just yet.
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So fascinating as things change in the so-called AI digital world.
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You've got to keep sharp.
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You've got to be very sharp about where you are and where you put your money and
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what you look at.
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And it's easy for us because I can take money out of one company and put it into
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another.
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But if you've got a factory or you've got something around that, it's a different
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situation.
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Yes, the people that are not nimble.
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are going to be left behind.
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We've said that before on a number of occasions, both with ourselves and with
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the governor.
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And you've got to have an AI director, an AI specialist in the company or a
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team of people combing through reams and reams of information and saying, right,
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look what so-and-so is
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doing.
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We must do it as well.
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And then another three months goes by and there's a new technology and you have to
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do that as well.
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The markets carry on.
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It's so summery, Northern Hemisphere summery.
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The Dow briefly went through 53,000 for the first time on the opening today,
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David.
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It's down below there now, but nothing's happened.
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I mean, when was the last time you saw a headline about the war, for example, or
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Netanyahu?
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When did you last hear Netanyahu's name?
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I don't know what he's done there.
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There is a bit there which is negative for him.
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But I haven't quite seen the story.
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I mean, I think the Israeli people can't wait to get rid of him, to be honest.
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But that's another story in itself.
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But there is nothing.
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I think everybody was, you know, enraptured with the July the 4th
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celebrations.
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I'm still trying to find Trump's speech.
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I haven't seen anything there or had any headlines around.
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Which one, the Freedom 250 or the July the 4th one?
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July the 4th one is very, very interesting indeed.
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It sets out a very dark future for America, saying that if they pass the
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Save America Act, which hopefully they won't, the numbers aren't with Trump at
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the moment, but if they did
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and a couple of other...
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A couple of other things he said.
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Then he said the Republicans will not lose an election for 100 years.
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So in other words, he's rigging the vote.
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Essentially what he said in this speech was that communism is bad.
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It was just like McCarthyism really from the 1950s.
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He said communism is bad.
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It's the biggest threat in the world, never mind World War I, World War II or
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9-11 or any other skirmish.
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America is under threat from communists.
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this is the worst thing of the last century.
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And it was so disturbing the way he called all Democrats, we call them
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Democrats now, they're all communists.
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There's no middle ground.
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If you're a Democrat, you're a communist, and he's going to do something about it.
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I found it very dark.
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You know, it is a dark chapter.
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And I think that the Democrats have to gather and decide, in which direction
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they're
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going.
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And having lived through where it's all starting to bubble up from, which is in
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New York,
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it can be frightening because they're as extreme as the right wing.
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The lefties are extreme.
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In other words, this is it.
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There's no room for discussion.
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And to put it bluntly, and what I'm saying is that They're not around issues of
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climate or any of those kind of issues at all.
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It's all around tax the rich, hate the Jews.
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That's it.
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And I'm being blunt about it, Lindsay.
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That's what it is.
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When I say hate the Jews, it's not in language like that.
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It is, do you support Israel?
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Well, I might.
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I don't mind.
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You know, I reckon I...
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you've got to say that they committed a genocide in Gaza.
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Unless you say that, you're out, that kind of thing.
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So if you're a politician and you want to stand for the Democratic Party and you're
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facing these kind of, in
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these areas where the so-called socialist Democrats are, That's the calling card,
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you know, hate
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Israel, free Palestine, free Palestine.
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You know, they continue to do that.
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How big is the Jewish vote in America?
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How important is it?
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The Jewish, it's, you know what, there's the population in New York, the
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Jewish population is the second biggest in the world outside of Israel.
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But they're complacent.
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They're not radical.
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And these are the areas, and this is taking place.
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in areas in which there's not a large Jewish population.
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You know, and I bless my wife.
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She would meet people in the building and have a discussion or meet them for tea or
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something like this.
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And she'd always bring up politics.
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They weren't interested in politics.
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They wanted to go to Broadway.
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They wanted to go to restaurants.
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They'd lead a very comfortable, easy life.
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Yes.
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Not a radical life, if you understand what I'm saying.
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And so Linda can't shake off her roots, in other words.
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No, she can't.
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She always wants to pick a fight or pick an argument.
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Or just try and get an understanding of things.
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But that's what I found as well.
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The vast majority of people in New York couldn't be bothered.
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Oh, this will pass.
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You know, this is nothing.
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And for me, it's a bit of a danger.
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The danger for the...
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Democrats, unless they identify themselves or move to the middle, you're going to get
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this vast middle ground
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shifting.
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That's where Trump comes in, shifting towards the right.
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You know, they will not tolerate, as we've been saying, a Jeremy Corbyn or a Bernie
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Sanders or
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those kind of radicals, you know, who are trying to take over America.
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Lindsay, and if I'm rattling on, I don't, why, what I, what I learn about New York,
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it's a rich.
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city.
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What I mean by that, it lives off the rich.
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I went down, for those people who know Manhattan, right down to the lower end,
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13th Street, 14th Street, which is Soho, which is Chelsea, or that area.
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And there's an island, a little garden that was built by Diane von
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Furstenberg.
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Yes.
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The Dishonor.
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Yes, it was sponsored by Carl Icahn, who's a husband.
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I think she died together with him.
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A beautiful garden, you know.
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They donated it together with the high, what do you call it, the high, not the
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high rise,
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the old underground railway.
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Well, it's not underground.
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This is overground.
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They turned it into a walk.
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Yes, I've been on that walk.
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It's very lovely.
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It hasn't been gentrified whatsoever.
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It's been beautified.
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It's lots of plants and all that sort of thing.
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This comes with a donation of rich people.
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That's what it is, the ha'la.
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And so you walk there and it's magnificent.
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Instead of trying to take down the steel, which they would never be able to do,
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they've turned it into a very pretty garden.
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But that's how it functions.
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It functions off parks that have been donated by… very wealthy people, all the
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events
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that take place, whether it's Broadway, whatever it is, financed by wealthy.
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The MoMA, the Museum of Modern Art, the Whitney, the Frick, the Guggenheim, the
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Metropolitan,
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all of those.
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You know, they can't function without the donations and contributions of the
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wealthy.
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So do you think out of spite because of Mamdani or whoever it is in the future?
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Do you think out of spite that there will be no donations, do you think they will
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leave New York just because they're getting a, just because a wealth tax is
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put in?
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Is that what you're saying?
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They are.
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That's exactly right.
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That's exactly what I'm saying.
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When you lose these people, you know, when you lose, you lose New York.
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And he's going after the wealthy, you know, and trying to tax them out
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of existence.
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Why should they be a billionaire?
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you know and and so on get the billionaires you know too many
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billionaires too much money that kind of cry uh
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leave new york alone you know this is i don't care how much money these people
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have got whether they inherited whether they made it
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themselves whatever it is but it's it's it's a kind of city that thrives on on
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wealth and it's been like that ever
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since um the dutch bought it yes you know from the indians in i don't know wherever
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It's been a trading
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city.
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It's never been a historical place.
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So I just worry about where this can go.
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And these people are radical.
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You can't sit down and talk to them.
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I think even for radical leftists, David, money talks.
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So if they sit around the table and say, okay, we understand we should pay a bit
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more tax when people like Trump don't
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even put their tax returns in, it is a little bit of a...
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um skewed society in that regard so yes we'll talk to you but uh yeah if it's
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completely radical and the the
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garden factor the highline factor that you've just highlighted is is is in the
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background as well then you know
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maybe is that there is something to be said when you withdraw money you know it's
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like the the property taxes
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you know for those um rents that are in control or you know you apply each year to
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how you how much you can,
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I don't know, I don't want to say the rent control, but it is, you know, you can't
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just decide on what rent you want to put up.
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There are certain buildings, I don't know under what act they fall, whatever it is.
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The danger is that when you stop landlords getting increased for two years, but the
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plumbing
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charges keep going up, electricity charges, everything else goes up, well,
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then you neglect the buildings.
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You know, you say, I'm not going to bother about the garden.
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So what if the geese is a year old, you know?
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or we need replacement.
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And that's what happens.
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You get a deterioration.
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And the trouble is it doesn't reverse quickly, as we've seen with inflation.
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You know, when inflation gets embedded, it's very difficult to suddenly turn it
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around.
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It's in the price.
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You can't then lower the prices.
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That's when, you know, economists talk about embedded inflation.
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Yes.
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You know, once you start to embed it in the prices, it's very difficult then to
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reverse this.
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And this is the trouble is that.
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the same thing.
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Jamie Dimon is, he's very moderate in the way that he speaks, but, you know, you can
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hear him
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in his quiet way discussing what Mandani is going to do.
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And he's a little 35-year-old pipsqueak, you know, without any real political
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clout, you know, he's
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one of these smiling politicians that...
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He presses the right buttons, David.
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He presses the right buttons.
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We're going to have free buses.
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It's going to be this for the poor and that for the poor, et cetera.
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So let's see how it plays out.
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Okay, so there's nothing to talk about in the markets outside of politics.
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There's no war talk.
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There's nothing to get your teeth into.
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It's June the 6th, for goodness sake.
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So, of course, we've got another month or two of this.
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And hopefully it will be nice and quiet like it is now.
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But what we can't get away from, David, is the extraordinary goings-on since we last
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spoke at the World Cup,
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which has been it's getting better and better.
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Yesterday I was in tatters.
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I watched Norway versus Brazil, and I'm rooting for Haaland.
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I love Haaland.
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He's an honest, decent young man.
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He's making a fortune.
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but he invests, unlike people like Ronaldo who buy diamonds the size of gulls eggs
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and
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sticks them in their ear, Erling Haaland invests in a chess championship in Europe.
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He's a chess player.
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So he buys into the company that is trying to popularize chess and make it an
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international sporting event or
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a European sporting event.
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Anyway, so I'm for Norway and they won.
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So I'm elated and I thought...
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Shall I go to sleep between the two games, i.e.
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the Norway game and the England game?
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I thought, no, stuff it.
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I'm too hopped up now.
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Did you stay up?
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Of course I did.
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And then, David, then Reuters news alert flashed across my phone and it said,
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source says Trump involved in FIFA decision to overturn the record.
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And I got so wound up about that.
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I got so angry.
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I took to social media and I used inappropriate language.
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occasionally, to express my disgust at this, the interference, the corruption,
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the ignorance of Trump and Infantino to ruin what has been a fantastic tournament.
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And the reason it's been a fantastic tournament is because Trump has had
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nothing to do with it.
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He hasn't been to a game, and the reason he hasn't gone to a game, David, is
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because he would be booed, and he can't stand that.
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So he's left, he's been in the background.
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Occasionally he says...
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Yeah, the attendance figures are brilliant.
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But this weekend, he crossed the line.
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Yesterday, he crossed the line with the interference.
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He's admitted this.
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And I'm mad.
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It's headlines now.
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It's headlines now as I watch Bloomberg now.
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Trump asked for a review by FIFA on the Balogun red card.
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Yes.
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And FIFA came up with some story.
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I think they've suspended it for a year.
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He's, for whatever reason, I don't know.
19:40
I don't understand what this is all about.
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But the fact is that he is going to play.
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And I think it's unfair.
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You know, I don't know the reason.
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I don't know whether there was a legitimate appeal.
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We see it in the UK as well.
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They didn't appeal.
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The team didn't appeal.
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The player didn't appeal.
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Trump appealed because somehow he read that America wasn't he doesn't know
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football.
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He's never been to a football match.
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He doesn't know the rules.
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He doesn't even know what a red card is.
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He's an idiot.
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But he found out about it.
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It doesn't it smells.
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You know what I mean?
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The fact that he phoned, it smells.
20:16
When the president of the country that's hosting it phones You've got to have the
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courage to say, look, we'll take care of this.
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It's going to be very difficult.
20:25
Even if it was a legitimate reversal, it's very difficult to stand behind it.
20:30
It wasn't a legitimate reversal.
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It was a technicality.
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And UEFA came out with a very strongly worded statement.
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This is Europe versus the United States and UEFA versus FIFA.
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And they just said it very plainly.
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FIFA has crossed the line.
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And there's going to be a lot of ramifications.
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Well, they'll lose anyway, America.
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I think they'll have a good team.
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Belegun or no Belegun.
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So, but still, I agree with you, it's wrong.
21:05
But outside of that, I mean, it has been phenomenal.
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The England game was something superb.
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I woke up.
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Well, of course, I thought of you actually because at halftime I went outside.
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to catch my breath.
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And the sun, the first sort of hint of dawn was emerging across the
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fields.
21:28
And I thought, I bet Shapiro's out having a run now and he'll actually watch this
21:32
game.
21:33
Because, you know, it started at four o'clock my time.
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So I'd been up, you know, watching football since 10 or something.
21:40
And anyway, it was an exhausting evening.
21:43
But it was great fun, wasn't it?
21:45
It was an extraordinary game.
21:47
Yeah, it was.
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And I didn't want to turn the TV on because
21:55
my wife was sleeping.
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But I was watching it on my phone.
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And I just said, you know, you start to watch it.
22:03
The minutes go by and the seconds tick by.
22:05
Just blow the bloody whistle.
22:07
Yes, exactly.
22:08
It was 11 minutes.
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It got to 12 minutes and 20 seconds and I was beside myself.
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And then that John Stones tackle that just crept.
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past the post.
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Oh, it was wonderful.
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And now tonight, of course, we have the Iberian Derby, David.
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We have got Laminia Mar, the young pretender, versus the old goat Ronaldo,
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who I hope falls flat on his face, literally and metaphorically.
22:34
He annoyed me in Man United.
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He annoys me now even more.
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He's an annoying character.
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And Piers Morgan likes him, so it makes him even more annoying.
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And the Norwegians are the darlings of this tournament.
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Yes.
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I must say, they're a row, you know.
22:51
The supporters chant in the row, yes.
22:53
It's very good.
22:54
They're a small country.
22:56
And when I say honest, I mean they're just decent people.
23:00
All, you know, speak English beautifully.
23:03
Very articulate.
23:05
And it's just lovely to watch, you know, to see them.
23:08
I wasn't mad about the Brazilians.
23:10
They never had a good team, eh?
23:12
They're so far away from where they were 20 years ago plus.
23:17
Just not the same.
23:19
David, before we go, how are the roads and how is Johannesburg in general?
23:26
What's the mood and what's your mood going back to that place?
23:34
There are still a lot of issues.
23:36
I mean, they are trying.
23:37
I've seen some around our area.
23:40
Things are being patched up.
23:42
And the problem is that electricity, power stations falling over is still a massive
23:47
issue.
23:48
The water issue is even greater.
23:51
And, you know, that's why I'm saying I'm not even going to say anything to you just
23:54
in case I tempt Providence, you know, tempt fate.
23:57
And suddenly later on, I find that electricity is gone here.
24:01
But I think that is still a big issue here.
24:06
It's things seem to be quiet here.
24:08
The whole xenophobia story.
24:10
um went with the whimper thank goodness there was no real violence or or turning
24:15
of you know looting or anything like that
24:17
but still it left a very very bad taste you know the whole way that it was handled
24:22
and our name is you
24:24
know it's it's it's hurt south africa's name is hurt It's hurt the democracy,
24:28
particularly Ramaphosa, in the
24:31
way that he's trying to project South Africa.
24:35
I think he hasn't come out on the right side.
24:38
There are attempts now to start governing properly in that.
24:42
But, Lindsay, it comes back to policy.
24:46
They're not going to forego policies.
24:50
There doesn't seem to be an energy to get this place right.
24:55
It's steady at the moment.
24:56
It's stable.
24:57
But when I look at the market and I read Hudayko's numbers and things like that,
25:03
you see the
25:03
manufacturing report.
25:06
It's a country that continues to slow down.
25:13
It's a lesson I learned from America.
25:15
I was absolutely fascinated by the United States.
25:20
I don't like the left politics.
25:22
I don't like the right.
25:23
is this The center that just keeps on going, when I see institutions visited, I
25:28
told you about the Costco
25:30
when I went to visit Costco in Boston and the store, you're just blown out
25:37
by how big it is.
25:39
And I would see little kids coming from Europe and their eyes were wide open at
25:45
the
25:48
size of it.
25:49
And the amount of expenditure, you know, you go into a store and there's just...
25:54
piles and racks.
25:55
You go into a supermarket, you know, small in space, but, you know, racks full and
26:01
thousands and
26:02
thousands of people just shopping.
26:04
This is the America that you're fascinated with.
26:07
You go to Arkansas, David, or Missouri, and you'll say, is this the same
26:14
country?
26:16
Would I vote for the Democrats if I lived in an asshole like this?
26:21
I mean, come on, you've got to vote for somebody that says, yeah, I'm going to
26:24
build a wall and we're going to make your lives better and cheaper, et cetera, et
26:28
cetera.
26:29
Meanwhile, there's no wall and food prices are high.
26:33
It doesn't matter.
26:33
The point is that you stylize America very nicely because you only go to Boston and
26:40
New
26:41
York.
26:42
Yeah, but it's the heartbeat, you know, of the together with like the Californians,
26:48
the Texas and the big
26:49
cities there.
26:50
That's where the heartbeat is.
26:52
But you're dead right.
26:53
You know, you go down to maybe Atlanta or Georgia or cities like that.
26:58
I think you'll find a different America.
27:01
We should do something about that.
27:04
We'll weave it into some sort of podcast.
27:07
But that means you're going to have to go on a road trip, David.
27:12
We could get it sponsored.
27:14
David Lee's New York, we'll call it.
27:16
Yeah, but I used to go to, you know, Buffett, to Omaha very often.
27:23
And it was the same thing.
27:24
You know, you'd go into this very neat city, lovely manicured lawns and neat
27:29
buildings, but
27:31
Hicktown, you know, yes, it was a hub for farmers.
27:36
You know, this was a massive hub for agriculture and farming.
27:42
But, you know, you go there and you'll see.
27:45
You go into a bar and it's a sports bar and there you are.
27:48
You've got these chaps, you know, with their butt showing.
27:50
What do you call it?
27:51
The crack showing, you know.
27:52
Yeah, the builder's bum, they call it.
27:54
Yeah, builder's bum, yeah.
27:57
And they have no idea who Buffett is.
28:00
You say, why?
28:01
Yeah, no, come to see Buffett's AGM.
28:03
Who's Buffett, you know?
28:04
I mean, this is in the heart of the bar.
28:06
As we close this, David, talking about the agricultural communities, I live in an
28:12
agricultural area as well and I'm
28:13
absolutely fascinated.
28:15
that when I go to a shop on a Sunday, the shop's open at 12 o'clock, the supermarket
28:19
that I go to, and I go there and
28:22
there are men coming along, stout gentlemen with good tans, big tummies,
28:28
shorts on,
28:29
and they're wearing wooden clogs.
28:33
They still wear clogs in this part of the Netherlands.
28:36
And every time I see one, I'm stupid.
28:39
I get my phone out and I start taking a picture of them.
28:42
To document these things, I like to document new things in my life.
28:46
And occasionally a guy will look at you and say something and I'll pretend that I
28:52
was taking a selfie of myself or
28:53
something like that.
28:54
But I take pictures of people's clogs.
28:57
It is incredible.
28:58
And if you go to Amsterdam, one of the most liberal, sophisticated cities and
29:03
beautiful cities in the world,
29:05
they wouldn't even know what a clog was there.
29:08
No, no.
29:11
My same fascination is when the tabs come in from the Midwest or wherever they are,
29:16
the cowboys, and you see them
29:18
in these cowboy boots, you know, that have been engraved leather, you know, those
29:22
with a stubbed toe and high heel and they're wearing
29:25
these hats, you know, you look at yourself, where is this from?
29:30
And it's, it's, it's, you saw that in Omaha, Nebraska.
29:35
And Buffett used to have, you know, he always has in the exhibition halls, it
29:40
always show off the products in which he's invested.
29:42
And they were cowboy boots.
29:44
Boy, you know, stacked to the ceiling, cowboy hats.
29:48
I'd love to see you dressed up as a cowboy, but that's another matter.
29:52
David, thank you very much.
29:53
It was one of my childhood ambitions.
29:54
I always wanted to be a cowboy.
29:56
Here we go.
29:57
Nice time to end.
29:58
David Shapiro is from Assessment Securities.
30:00
And that was Shapiro World.
30:02
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