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Firefighter Cancer Prevention: Chief J.T. Wallace on Changing Department Culture · Firefighter Nation Podcast

• Nat Kapustin: Welcome everyone to episode 67 of APS Radio. My name is Jim Bernica. Today I'm joined by my old friend, Chief JT Wallace. How you doing? Good. Good. Good afternoon to you. Good afternoon to you. All the way representing Ben Fire District number four in Louisiana. Yes. Yes. It's the only place where I can remember. This is one of my favorite stories, Chief. Is Going there and it was the first time I was there and and hearing the actual words, we're gonna have to spray the station for scorpions. Yeah. That is not something I've ever heard mentioned in Ohio or anywhere else. Well, w the great state of Louisiana has many, many things that are unique. Clearly. Absolutely. So I'm excited to have you on the show. I mean, you're bringing over fifty years. Of historical data yourself in the fire service. Fifty-two years from nineteen seventy-four on. And this is this is in your blood too, you know. Yes, ⁓ my father was ⁓ fire chief. Together, ⁓ if you put ⁓ our service together, it's 90 years that that we had collectively and ⁓ part of that is as fire chief, but but ⁓ 90 years in the fire service. So I ⁓ I grew up around firemen. my firemen were my heroes. I mean, I I knew the people he worked with and later instead before went to work with the people that he that he was working with. And they they were my heroes and and for all good reasons. They stood their ground when it was time to stand the ground and they and they did good things. And ⁓ all all heroes in in in by all stretches of imagination. So let's let's go back to that way back machine when you actually started. Was it the year 1974? 1974. Firemen rode on the back of of of a fire truck. They the diesel fire trucks had just been introduced and we had one and not everybody got to ride on it. You didn't ride the tailboard of that truck. ⁓ you rode inside ⁓ behind in in a dog house. You know, it wasn't actually closed in, but it was better than being on the back and then in the rain and in the cold. But ⁓ You know, there's there's other things that that we didn't that we did different. Then we ⁓ we didn't use air packs all the time, although we that I was trained to use them and told that that was standard operating procedure. But most of the times we left them on the we left them on the fire truck. And the only time we did anything with them is check them in in at the the beginning of the shift that they did have air in it. I was told please don't use that. We have to go. to across town to get it filled. We didn't even have a way to fill it at the time. So they were new. You know, in nineteen seventy four air packs were actually the use of them was new. And and we did it didn't until the eighties before they really got started to be used. So that well at the very beginning of the year, like you look at back at that and you're you have to kind of cringe a little bit, like, and I realize you didn't know what you didn't know. And information was scarce. Like we didn't know that cancer was so prevalent back then. Absolutely not. We didn't know any of this stuff. Well, the thing the things that the things that we didn't know are the reason that my heroes all died from an occupational disease. I have a picture in my office that's of ⁓ the entire Boja City Fire Department in nineteen fifty-five, and my father's in that picture. Each and every one of those men ⁓ died from the c occupational disease. Maybe not directly, but each one was affected in a negative way. Their health was affected in a negative way and it limited their their ability to do things they wanted to do and and eventually they died from it. It's and it was because of the things they did, the things they were exposed to and the things they did not know is what what what they fell fell victim to. And You know, that's a that's a hard, hard thing to do. ⁓ 1974 had a lot of good things going on. ⁓ it's it's you know, it really had some some significant fires. And it some of the fires that we fought weren't as dangerous as the ones today. You know, the the materials that were burning were not as dangerous as the the materials that burn today, but we just didn't have any protection. That was a problem. ⁓ the badge of courage was a was a dirty helmet and and dirty bunker clothes. That that was something that you left a little bit on there so you could tell it's been used. That was that was the culture. ⁓ the the culture then was you had to do some of the take these unnecessary chances so that so that you could prove that you were brave. And and now that culture doesn't exist anymore. I've noticed here and it gives me great hope. people that work here today, they would not ever consider not having an air pack on. They wouldn't consider not having a clean cab. They wouldn't consider that that smoke smell and find the fire truck, you know, that you smell for a week after the fire, but you put your bunker clothes in there. They would never consider that. They know nothing more than how to bag the clothes and and transport them either in another vehicle or bagged inside the cab. You'll never smell a a smoke, an ounce of smoke ever again in a fire truck. I have personally gone to each station where we have a fire truck to see if I can smell it. It's not it's not detectable. So we do have clean calves, that I can assure you. That's the difference in in 1974 and today. you know, those men did, they were they were men of courage. They they truly had courage and they truly did brave things. They just didn't know that some of the brave things and the dangers they were were taking on. They didn't know how how significant they were. Sure. But along throughout your career, you've realized you've seen these things happen to you personally and and ⁓ yes. Seen everything. And and you've you've realized that the fire service in yourself needs to evolve in order to make sure that the stuff you know, doesn't happen and affects us as as minimal as possible. Well, my background was more started in in the fire and I'm I was the first chief of EMS for Bozer City Fire Department. And and my focus was safety, health and safety for that for that all that length of time. And I knew that that the things that we were had been doing were bad. I made fire chief. And we made some changes. We changed this the how we did things. And unfortunately, my hero started dying. And I I marched two foot behind my daddy's cast. Which is a very difficult thing to do. It's even hard to talk about it today. But behind, but from two foot behind came what we're doing today, the ⁓ health and wellness. All of that came from that. trying to figure out what to do next. So no one else had to see. Sure. Chief. And it has started to work. We have a different culture today. You have you have been able to take what happened to your father and to your friends. And I knew it the first time I ever talked to you, like how truly personal it was and how you wanted to make sure that this never happened to any of your guys or gals. And that's I mean that's why I have you on this show is because like you actually mean it. Like you are the Chiefs chief that you know you're there for the guys and gals. You want the very best for them throughout their career and you also want them to enjoy their retirement. Something that you really I'm not worried about. Yeah. Because you're still doing it fifty two years later. Well the one of the reasons ⁓ I I actually retired from Bozier City and And had the the intent of working here for a few years to solve some some some critical issues they had and move on. But the longer I work, the more I realized that this ship could be steered in the right direction much more easily than a bigger department could. And with that, I've been able to prove some theories, do some things that have made remarkable differences, not only in how our people look. but how they feel and how they act. ⁓ th these people are very healthy. I I I showed you a report that we with that we've done. And that is truly it it was even more remarkable to me. And that was only the 10 years of the 20 years we've been working on it. And in those 10 years, we've seen work's comp go down. We've seen absences go down we have less overtime like by 70% less over time. And that's that's remarkable. One of the things that I that I that we see that's is the the biggest thing is the more people I put on, the fewer hours of of ⁓ exposure these people have. They're not getting as many calls. So they're not getting as many exposures. And that's the that's what it's all about. I firmly believe now, after 52 years, if I can keep people from seeing disaster, the more disasters I can keep them from, the better off they'll be. The more prepared they will be by not seeing it. Learn about how to do it, but only do it when you have to do it. I believe that. Absolutely. Yeah. The analytics. Back it up, that report was very interesting to see. But and it goes to show like what I've always seen from you is you invest in your people. It is it is the number one asset that we have, and it's the number one asset we always had. My daddy told me one thing that I'll never forget. And we had been hired and they the rumor was that the firemen were going to be laid off right after we were hired and trained. And the union was going to go to City Hall and and and just to make a stand, not to do anything crazy, but make a stand to say, don't do that. And He said you need to go with them. I said, Well, I really don't want to go. Well, he said, you need to stand with them so they will stand with you. And and it's been it's been the mantra ⁓ for my whole career. Outstanding. You again, you yes, you have the title chief, but like you are one of the guys. I think that's the difference that and and s again, like I don't I usually don't have a lot of chiefs on the show, but like your leadership and how you go about things, I think is I mean it's it's something to strive for. And I want other people out there to listen to this and watch this and realize like You know, this is something that they can do with their department too. And it's really it's just a shift in priorities. And I mean that's the main thing. The the the main thing is not about yes, you need the equipment, you need the houses, you you need the supplies, you need to outfit your your members with with what they need to do the job, but y that also goes into the cancer prevention stuff. It goes into the mental health side of things, it goes into the the physical fitness. ⁓ even your your schedule, like it's it's different than any place I've ever seen before. Like you guys doing, you know, shift change around dinner time. Yeah. You know, and that's something that like your your members are are for. It's it's it's it's you know, they're part they I I think the other thing is like you you actually listen to them. And dare I say and I I'm going to I'm not going to cuss, but it's it's a minimal cuss. You you give a shit. You give a shit. ⁓ yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And that's the I don't see that everywhere. And and the other thing that I like to is the follow through. If somebody brings something up, you're like, okay, well let's let's figure out how we can fix this. Let's let's put the work in to make this right. This is one thing I know. I can't undiscover something I discover. And if I discover something that's going to harm you. I'm going to remove it and I will be focused on that until it's gone. I'm not gonna there's nothing gonna change my priorities. The these this the the the wellness and health, wellness and the ⁓ you know, the operational readiness is what I call it. Having the having the health and wellness is more than a gym. It's for them. And we have complete buy-in at this time. Now we People think you pay them six hundred dollars a month to exercise. I'm I'm really not that wasn't really the the reason for it. That was a carrot to get them to get healthy. And once they get healthy, they're not gonna let pride is not gonna let them go backwards. That's the truth. It's just a part of their salary, you know, and it we made it a part of their salary. It's just an incentive for them to do the right thing. And That's was money well spent. It's an investment. ⁓ and while it's ⁓ you know, getting close to two hundred two hundred thousand dollars a year, it's a boy ⁓ it's a good investment. I'd spend that two hundred twenty thousand again knowing what I know today. We we talked about earlier just briefly about you know, your your B W C claims are down. ⁓ Absolutely. Yeah you know, the injuries are down, but I mean Think about that. For those out there listening, ⁓ the math, six hundred dollars a month, thirty-six hundred dollars a year, if your firefighters stay, you know, at a certain level of fitness. I mean, that's that's a lot of money. I've never seen that much money for a fitness incentive anywhere. The intric the interesting part, if you look at how much per employee, thirty-six hundred dollars average per employee. It was that much in twenty fifteen, and it's that much per employee with with forty. five employees the same amount. It actually went down with forty-five people per employee. So that tells you something right there. You get to that magic number to where it's effective and it's working, it's going to stay that way. No matter how many people you put in, it's going to end up being messed. Yeah. It it works. The math works and it's amazing that it works that way. I love it. I love it. So you have the fitness aspect, all the all the stations have workout equipment or they have access to workout equipment at least and you know it's that incentive is there. But that's it doesn't just stop there. There's other programs that you put together as well. Well, you know, the the ⁓ you know, we we're the fire stations are are clean ⁓ and I say clean from they're not exposed to the the the carcinomas we go fight. The the the we covered the bunker clothes. We don't hang ⁓ on the hooks anymore. We put ⁓ in in blockers and cover them so that diesel smoke doesn't get on ⁓ E even the little bit of diesel that goes out after We have the the the hoses that's hooked to it with a vacuum system. And that's at every station. And ⁓ when you first came, we didn't have it at every station, but we got there finally. And ⁓ we're building a new station now and it will have it, it will have that also. ⁓ it's ⁓ it it's a it's an it's an amazing thing. ⁓ that once you make the investment and you do the work, the hard work's over. All you have to do is keep adding to it. And we've grown by 376% in employees. And and not to have any more money per employee and in incentive is really a remarkable thing. And part of all of it is the cancer prevention. ⁓ you know, it's it's the exposure part of it. You know, these are these are pref these are ⁓ occupational athletes. You know, what they do, they they don't we just don't know when the game's gonna be. That's the problem. And that's why they have to be fit all the time and be ready all the time. Sure. And they understand that concept. That that took a while to get that in there, but they're organizational athletes. There's nothing more difficult than stay ready all the time in peak condition. It's hard. And I'm not talking about ⁓ a caffeine ⁓ you know fueled people. You know, they're healthy, they're healthy people. And and they're amazing. They truly are amazing. And the progress they've made is unbelievable. And the fact that we can prove that, you know, it's I'm not it's not even bragging. And I am certainly the the optimist for them. I am their advocate, as you say. I am truly their advocate. I believe in them. You know, they're part of me. and I'm part of them. And and I've always been for them. Ever since I can remember, firefighters have been everything to me. They were my baseball coaches in the summer when I was little. They they were everything to me and they still are and will always be. That's one thing that I that in my life has stayed constant. I've always had a group of people standing with me. No matter what I do, they stand with me and they work with me. And that's what it takes. This you have to have that kind of ⁓ powerful experience and And with with a group of people who can work the mission. Everybody is pulling the wagon in the same direction. And the results are what we what we've done with this program. It's that way for everything. They're that good at the fire ground. We have ninety-eight percent advanced level EMTs that work here just because that was a priority. They wanted to be part of the of that mission. All of them, even the ones who don't didn't want to. learned how to. It's it's that important to them to to to do what is our mission. Absolutely. So we we talked about the fitness side of things. We talked about the cancer side of things, which you know that's that's really how I got introduced to you by the way, was doing all the cancer stuff. And yes what I've liked ⁓ if I've truly enjoyed is the the five times it's just crazy that I've actually been out and spent time with you guys. Every time I go out there It's better. You know, you've you've you've updated things every single time. And you're you're consistently working on just doing what you can with whatever information is out there. Well the last the last thing that that really was something I thought was going to be the holy grail was cancer testing. And the and Willis Knighton has agreed to cancer test every firefighter in Caddo and Bozier Parish, not only once a year or over five years, they're gonna do it for the rest of their life. It doesn't matter if they retire. Everyone is tested and everyone has that. We have given our retirees, they will have access to exercise. They have access to the to the physician that we've hired. They will have access to cancer screening for free for the rest of their life. That is unbelievable. And that is corporate that's a corporate sponsor, a corporate partner who says we believe enough in your your your department and what you're doing. We want to make sure you stay healthy. Can you I mean for those listening Yeah, for those listening and watching this, like isn't that amazing? Like I I've I've complained a lot lately of of just the simple fact that when you typically when you retire you're left on your own. And where the problem is, especially with the f the physicals, is you go to your family doctor And they're very limited at the screenings they can do. Because now here on private insurance, ⁓ maybe Medicare, and they're just not going to they're gonna limit the screenings. You're not gonna get the stuff that you actually need because of all the exposure. So we have all these big screenings, exposure stuff that we do when we're working, but that's a lot of times not when our cancer shows up. Our cancer typically shows up after we retire because it has that lengthy period of twenty, twenty-five, thirty years. So the fact that you have that in place for your retirees is humongous. It's such a amazing perk. That's how it should be that's how it should be everywhere. But it's not. But it is at Bentfire District Number Four in Louisiana. Well I hope that it will be everywhere. I really pray that it will be everywhere because the you know the What we do is we help people. People who do what we do should not have to die for what they've done. And they should be able to have have a monitoring because we know how dangerous it is. And we know how much they've been exposed to, whether they know it or not, whether they try to or not, they need to be evaluated. And insurance does not pay for things like that, but we will. There's that gap. And my friend, you were able to fill that gap, and that's huge. Because you're right. Because people are going to get diagnosed, but because they have those screenings, they'll catch it early on. Absolutely. And have a chance that they will have a b a better chance than anybody else in the country. Because not everybody believes in tests in screening and vaccines and things that that go to protect us. But this is real. And there's no Punitive damage for anything. There's nothing you can get that we won't help you with. We are with you from cradle to grave if that's what it takes. If that's the way you want to look at it. We're here. And it's and it's it is part of you what you've done for the people of this of this district. Because you have served them, they're going to serve you for the rest of your life. Point blank. That's amazing. I love this so much. So Well, it I love it too. Yeah. Trust me. And and and the guys and gals do too. Like I they that's the thing. I know that they feel appreciated. Like the morale is good there. I I go there enough and like yeah, like I I get it. I see it firsthand. But you know, another thing that we did and this was last year, and this was yeah, I I kind of felt like the the evolution was coming to where You're doing good, you're doing really good on the fitness stuff. You're you're you know, taking the cancer stuff very seriously. And the the behavior health side of things was what was really next to work on. And we've hired a bill. Yeah, I was able to bring Joe Terry, who's my go to, just kind of stir the pot, like just you know, kind of throw the grenade in the room and let it go. And she did her thing. And it really it started some some major balls rolling and and got some things going. If you want to touch on that, I'd love it. We do have somebody that that's a mental health professional that is going to be on equal basis of the of the the physician. They're going to they're going to be two different sides and we're going to work they'll work in unison, but it's the same working for the same thing. We'll we'll evaluate each individual. and their needs for that for that year. And they'll be able to contact this person with w and they will be will we will pay a certain amount of money for them to do our business, do our do things for us. And the employee again doesn't have to pay anything. They they just they will be they will be evaluated, treated, or advised on what they need to do. And it's that simple. It's something that's necessary. It's a piece of the puzzle that no one's ever people didn't think about it, that they didn't think that. But you know, if you look at it, part of the problem is, you know, forced overtime. We we've we've got fewer people than we need, fewer people than we can recruit. So we work more people on overtime. The more overtime you work, the more frustrated it is frustration hits you, anxiety comes in, and you don't know how to get rid of it. You can't turn that off. You know, you end up with sleep shift disorder. You you all the things that come with it. And then more, and then comes depression. And then comes how am I going to deal with this? And the butt and it just keeps rolling. We'll cut that off. We'll head that off. Everything is about preventing something from happening. And then the things we can't prevent, we're going to catch in the yearly evaluations. Yeah. So having a culturally competent clinician basically available so you can they can everybody can see them throughout the year. And then if there is any critical incident, like you've got them on standby too, ready to go. Absolutely. And we have and we have a chaplain that ⁓ also chaplain program also we have a chaplain that that does does work for us. And then we have ⁓ Actually multiple champions that that we would that we use. And I I know I can't remember if the peer support team is up and running, but I know that if they're not up and running, that was in a process. Okay, good. So ⁓ again, like a problem is presented to you, but very quickly you and your team and I love everybody that is working with you in that building right now. I mean they well they all work together and like they okay, here's a problem, let's solve it. Well, I'll give you an example. In nineteen eighty-nine, I started the first script business and stress debriefing team that that was in Bozier City. And we didn't really know exactly what we were doing. We were schooled on what to what to look for, but but we were we ran by the seat of our pants. These people are are tuned up and they're they're very effective. It's new, you know, it's new to even talk about it. ⁓ But it's not taboo with us. I mean, it's just we expect those kind of things. It what else can a human do when they see tragedy? I mean, once you have to see tragedy, you can't unsee it. It's there. I can't tell you the number of of skeletons I have hanging in the closets of of calls that I've made and tragedy that I've seen. And it's not all the same. Each individual one is different. And everyone has got to be dealt with. You know, after you do the best you can do, there's still the human the human carnage is there, the tragedy is there, and you have to deal with it just like any other human being, un other than you're not supposed to to to feel bad about it. You know, you're supposed to get over it and do the next one. Well, it's not possible. It's just not possible. It's not humanly possible. We're gonna deal with that in a in a big way. I mean it it does not matter what it takes, we would we will provide it. I love that. You know, again, you've already accomplished so much in a pretty short time there. Like I've seen the growth, you know, firsthand as well. And it's crazy to think you guys aren't done growing, not by a long shot. You wanna talk about what's what's next? Yeah. Well it's exciting. We one day w I woke up in an Amazon data center had been announced. And we had a lot of a lot of the people who knew about it hadn't signed nondisclosure agreements. And so they couldn't really talk about the big thing that was coming. But the big it's the biggest thing that's ever come. It's a $12 bit billion dollars with a big investment in Bocher Parish. And what that means is our 174 square mile area that has about 30,000 people in it will grow to somewhere ⁓ up to as much as 60 some odd thousand people will be living in this district. That means we're gonna have to double in size, at least, maybe even bigger. And it's gonna be in a short period of time. This will all happen. It'll be growing buildings that are it's a data center and that it's about I think it's a million it well it's five and a half acres under a roof. six of those buildings and they're two stories tall and it it it's got computers and all the things that make f store data and it ⁓ you know it's it it's an important thing. AI is I just got through taking an AI class from from LSU Baton Rouge and I learned that against I won't hold that against you. I'm telling ⁓ you that's for Maddox more than anything. Yeah. We learned we we he took the class also and Scott did too. And and and you know, part of the real reason we have progress are the people who work on this staff. I mean that we have expanded our ability to it's basically a big think tank here. I mean, we we're able to to put things on the table and come out with programs that work, you know, in a short period of time. Now, not all are problems are that simple and a lot of it's, you know, you got to go in and finesse it, but but if something is real and we see it, we can fix it. And I can and I capitalize the we. It's it's it's a joint effort. We have a the these folks in, you know, one of my biggest things is is ⁓ you know, I need to be able to leave this organization and they don't need me. That that's what my goal has always been. And and beginning here has been a hard time, but I'm I'm telling you, we're getting close that I won't be needed many more. And we're in a secession planning stage now. And so in the next four or five years, I can exit and and go about and that because they they really don't they won't need me. They can function without me now. I had surgery on my back earlier this year and for three months they ran the show and and it without a hiccup. I mean they and they had some pretty pretty stiff issues to deal with. So I I'm pretty s I'm pretty comfortable in the direction we're going. And the help that we have now, there's not a there is no problem we can't solve. That I assure you. We can we can do it. So we we're actively working for hiring people. That's not real easy in today's world. You know, to get get the number of people that we need. I want you to think about this concept. Everybody who works here now, there's about 40 people. Everybody who's not an officer is gonna be an officer within the next five years. That's how big it's gonna grow. And they're not ready. Our job, our job is to make them ready. And we can accomplish that. There's n it's without question, we can accomplish it. But we couldn't have done it five years ago. There's no way it couldn't have been done. This it but Amazon, they landed in here, we're going to end up with somewhere around $210 million over 20 years is is what what we will get in taxes. But the district will get. Yes. And growth pays for growth. 100%. The citizens have no additional costs for them to be here. And that is for annoying, you don't get that deal very often. And I'm not not trying to be a proponent for data centers. I'm just telling you what this group is willing to do. They're paying for what they need. They're building ⁓ they're building ⁓ power plants for their need for power. They're paying to have water brought to the site to have so they can have 35,000 gallons, 3,500 gallons a minute for flow for fire. Like it like the code says you'll do. And they're paying for that. So this is a remarkable thing. We'll be able to purchase equipment that we need, the additional equipment, and hire the people that that we need and be able to do a first class job. We we're being re-rated here soon and we expect to improve to a class two is what we we think will be. But with this this growth and Amazon There's no reason we can't go higher. It's it's really that it's really gonna be that significant. And it's all about being able to handle that. We couldn't have done it five years ago. We can do it today. And health and wellness isn't is one of the reasons. Yeah. How we don't go ahead, I'm sorry. No, it is you we just don't have this part to worry about any as much anymore. We know how to do this, we got it rolling. We can expand. We can get more balls in the air. So I I'm curious. I mean, you I know you have a pretty good retention rate. Like, you know, the people that are there are happy they stay there. ⁓ but recruitment is is a whole nother ball game. And the fact that you're gonna have to double in size essentially and bring in all all these new guys and gals, like kinda what is what is this gonna be the strategy behind that? Like, cause that's That's hard to do in today's age. I mean, I remember I mean, this is going my story, like in Ohio, like sitting in a room with twelve hundred guys and gals, you know, nowadays, you know, you get maybe two or three hundred. Yeah, it's it's definitely it's definitely different to in today's world. ⁓ we have we have ⁓ we were we go out and we we are now going to colleges that are teaching EMT and ⁓ there's no and they have fire science degrees, but the people are work usually working people. They're in the fire service is the reason they're going back to get that. But ENT, we have people that are ENT trying to do paramedic. We recruit those those people. But ⁓ we're going to we're gonna honestly we're gonna give a big pay raise. I'm be honest with you. That's how we're gonna do it. And we're able to do that because we have Amazon. So we're going we're going to have have the carrot in the stick. 'Cause competition is is always gonna be hard. So you gotta be better than your neighbors and everywhere else. And money talks and schedules And nobody else got nobody else got a data center. We got a data center and and we know what it's gonna pay. We know and we're we're smart enough to figure out how to add the people and we're gonna do that. And it's gonna take we're gonna pay more money. And that's quite honest. That's a very simple, honest answer. So what that makes you what that does. Is it makes you a destination department. So people will come and flock to you because you know they're gonna be paid more and then when they talk to your guys and gals, again, your guys and gals are gonna vouch for you. They're gonna say, Chief Wallace, his staff, this place is good, and they actually give a shit. They're not gonna abandon you. They're gonna take care of you. This is this is a place where you go and you hang your hat and you're good. We have we don't have people quit. We have a few people who've decided they don't like doing this kind of work and they may quit, but it's a a small number. Percentage wise, it's it'll it's gonna be less than two percent. And then but we the re the people we retain are quality people. We've got ⁓ to the to fur until the end of their career, whatever that may be. And we encourage them to stay past thirty years. It's not where you are forced to leave, you can s As long as you can help make a difference, we want you because that's how we are. It it is, you know, it this is, you know, kind of ⁓ I don't want it to be seen cliche, but but with this is a family. You know, this is a family of people that have a common interest, who have common denominators throughout their life. This is the way it is. And I think I think it's ⁓ it's something that's worth doing and and I think that people, the new people come, they're gonna figure that out quick. You know, we we've had to learn how to speak the language of the younger generation. And it's multiple generations now, you know, that that we've had to learn to talk to, but we but we are able to do that. You know, they have they're they truly have some of the same interests that we do. It's just that we have to learn how to to to discuss it and have a conversation where it means something to them. But like a lot of those younger generations I referring to are very into family life and they don't want to work overtime. And right. And like they their priorities are really to stay home and stay to themselves and and just do their family thing. But like you have created a culture that is welcomes like welcomes that. Well The to be honest with you, I'm trying to and this is this is we we're we're far twenty-four seventy-two. This I know you're working on that project. That's one of the things you really like. And and I too like the idea. We and this the the situation that we're currently in, we're in a good position to look strongly at doing that. ⁓ I think that would give people more time to to to to develop. a better family life or or a bigger family life, ever how you want to put it. If that's what they want, they'll be able to do that. And they won't have to work so much over time. You know, it this is we're heading in the right direction. I tell you, I have great hope ⁓ for the future. This is this isn't this is not this story's not near about over. This is we're just getting started. This organization can be as big as it needs to be and function at this same level. I know that for a fact. I believe it. You you think you can balance growing, but yet not not forgetting how you got here in the first place and the people that helped get you there. I've worked I've had as many as two hundred and fifteen pro employees in a in a fire another fire department. And I've and I can see us having that also. And I and I will know every name. I didn't know every name in in the other place, but I will know every name here. I know that. I love that. No, and it's again, it's been so cool to see your growth throughout the last decade. Cause that's really how long I've been I've known you and been going there. So and and ⁓ like I could I sense the excitement. ⁓ absolutely. You know, a couple years ago at this point in time we thought I mean, we've talked about we thought you would be done. And I could tell you got the gleam in your eyes still. Like, you're not done. You are just getting started. Like there's so much cool things happening. Like it's it's exciting. Well, I I'm excited for you here in Ohio. Well, I honestly I had considered, you know, that I was gonna go and then Amazon popped. And it sparked it sparked that that thing that I've been missing for the last couple of years. That's all I needed is another spark and we're ready to roll. And ⁓ so this there's not there's a lot left to do. And it it does excite me. It does excite me. I love building and and that's the one thing that I've that I've done in both the fire departments I have is built, built fire stations, hired people, and we're doing that again. And and th this is the part I love. the difference here is we are. a fire district and we have a source of revenue and that's all. You know, I there is no politics really involved in the in this at all, other than a board who is very supportive and approves the things that are legitimately need to be done. it really is it is truly a good good ⁓ good way to provide fire protection. You just have to have the right team doing it. That's right. I mean it's I mean think about it again. ⁓ we're talking more pay with Amazon coming and you're talking better schedule than anybody else has. There's nobody else, correct me if I'm wrong, there's nobody else in your state that's on a forty two hour work week. Is that right? No, it isn't it's not even been talked about at all. It's not you're I'm not sure anybody's e pays attention to it. You're gonna be first out there with that. You know, medical physicals for everybody, not just on a job. But throughout the the rest of their life. I mean I I mentioned it earlier, but I Chief, I mean it. You have created a destination place. A place in which you know, these guys and gals are gonna fight to get there. And you are going to be able to get the cream of the crop because of what you've created, how you've created the culture. Like I again, I'm excited for you and I I could tell you are and and your staff You know, all those guys are just, you know, just ready to go. Like, heck yeah, let's do this. I've always believed nobody does it better, but now I have a lot of proof. I don't I I've never had a bunch of stuff to back me up, but we we truly can prove that that that that that we've made that kind of progress. ⁓ fire rating's great and and the future of that is great. And ⁓ fireman's health is and wellness. And ⁓ you know, readiness, operational readiness that beyond beyond reproach. I love it. You are again a great role model. I'm glad to call you a friend as well. But like you know, I wanted you on here because I just I need people to hear some good examples of what a chief can actually be. Like this is this is you are dare I say a rarity. And I've been I've been throughout this country. I've met a lot of chiefs. I've been outside this country, met a lot of chiefs. And there's there's nobody quite like you. So please know that. Take that as a compliment. That is that I've never said anything quite like that. I do appreciate that. It is it is been it's been an absolute pleasure. Fifty two years is is been truly a day without work. You know, I it's it's so, I love it so much. And I always have. I remember the, you know, I was trying to be a rock star playing music, playing guitar in a band. And then one of my daddy told me, you're gonna have to, you're gonna have to go back to work. You know, you're gonna have to be a fireman. I said, well, I don't know if I want to be a fireman. But he said, you're gonna go take the test and you're gonna be a fireman. And that's what I did. But from day one, I knew that I had arrived. There was no doubt and this is what I need to be doing. And I remember calling my mother on the telephone. ⁓ at she was at home and I called and I said, We just made this run, and I I'm telling you, this is this is what I'm supposed to do. And and sh and she reminded me of that 30 years later. And I it's I said the same thing. This is what I'm supposed to do. She's calling. I think so. Yeah. But I mean, you know, it it speaks to your character. I mean anybody can show up and not anybody, but people can show up and do this job, but not do this job for as long as you have with the rank you've had and truly make everything else better for everything everybody else you touch. Like the ripple effect is real with you. And and I think that that's that's amazing. It's true, it's truly part of my fabric. I am undeniably an employee advocate. I don't even I I don't I've been criticized for it. I've been told that I'll do anything for them and give them anything they want. And the truth is, yes, I will. If I can, I will. And I'm don't hide that fact. I'm not ashamed of it. People have I've had people criticize me for that. It it's not a game to me. This has been real to me for a long time. And the reason I'm still doing it is because I'm not finished. And I know when I'm finished, and that's when I'll leave. No. And it and also you I think the difference with you than a lot of people is you're always leading with your heart. Like that that is what guides you. It has been your guiding light, you know, f through ever all the years I've known you. And that's that's different. You know, you you'll take that criticism and you 'cause you know ethically and morally you're doing the right thing. Yes indeed. And you're advocating you're advocating for your members. You're advocating for their families. Like you're just you're genuine. And I know it's for all you out there, I know it sounds like I'm kissing his butt. Yeah. Well fair. But it's but I it's genuine. Like again, I'm not I just haven't been around this type of leadership and so I thoroughly enjoy it. And I'm just I'm grateful for you and everybody there because I've I've g I've I feel like I'm an honorary member. Absolutely. And and it's you know, I feel that way Probably South Bend and and your department. And that's about it. Like so it's you just special. Remember you guided us in a in the direction we needed to go, a place we didn't know how to get there. And you know, I'm all about beating the path down as fast as we can. You showed us a way, and the way was a good way and it worked. And so we're gonna keep doing that also. I mean, I've got a lot of people that taught I've learned a lot of lessons from a lot of people. But no more powerful than what you did. You giving us you giving us the tools we needed. I d I don't need to walk two feet behind the casket again. It's something I don't want ever wanna do again. You helped me not be to have to do that again. Well you were you were open for it. Absolutely. That's the main difference. And again I'm a sponge. You are. You are. For sure. Well, I know it's it's it's lunchtime there. Yes. You know, I I know I know ⁓ all those guys, Scott, Robbie, Dusty, Maddox, they're all probably screwing off eating lunch, waiting for you to be done, going, How was it? Dusty's actually beat you up. Yeah. Dusty's actually Is Dusty the technical guy? Is that what he's doing? He's the man. I love Dusty. But he and so do I. Yeah. Tell me what you really think about him off camera. No, I'm kidding. He's my favorite. He's my special favorite. ⁓ Dusty, it's on tape. You're his favorite. He's gonna love that. He'll pay for that. Chief, if if anybody out there has any questions just regarding just how you do things, like all this er everything you've been able to accomplish throughout your career, what's the best way for them to reach out to you? You know, you can you can send an email at firechief at bentonfire dot org. You can call me at three one eight nine six five nine four five four and any of those will will will get me. There you go. I appreciate it. And we and we'll respond we will respond but any in kind, any way that we need to. ⁓ but you know, we're allowed to try to to learn something from the people who seek it too. There's always a lesson to be learned. That's for sure. Yep. All right. Well, I'll get you out of here. ⁓ again, I appreciate you making the time to join me on this. It's it's ⁓ been a really cool experience. I know I know this is the even years are my off years for not seeing you live in person. So I'm looking forward to next year being there and I mean who even knows what we're gonna end up doing, but like I'm excited for it. Well, there'll be a lot more people to talk to. ⁓ yeah. That's cool. A lot of lot a lot of newbies. Yep, there will be. Some people that never heard it before. Yeah, that'll be good. I love it. All right. For everybody out there, he's Chief JT Wallace. I'm Jim Bernica. And we'll see and talk to you next month. Take care, Chief. Thank you. Thank you very much.