Latest / Love Conquers Fear / #31: Why Women’s Health Fell Behind and How Precision Medicine and AI Can Fix It — Piraye Beim

Transcript

#31: Why Women’s Health Fell Behind and How Precision Medicine and AI Can Fix It — Piraye Beim · Love Conquers Fear

• 0:00
  Women's House is probably easily 60 years behind other fields of
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  medicine. We can catch up in Women's
• 0:05
  House. We're sitting on these boulders
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  of gold on the beach. We spend more researching male
• 0:12
  pattern baldness then we spend researching a condition called
• 0:16
  endometriosis, which is a health condition that impacts one out
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  of every 10 women on earth. If you think about the last time
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  that humanity did what my company is doing, which is
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  developing from scratch drugs for women's bodies based on that
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  bio logical insight, the last time we did that predates the VC
• 0:33
  industry by about 3 decades. We basically cracked open the
• 0:37
  Holy Grail that pharma had not been able to do with all their
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  money and all their time thanks to AI.
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  Hey everyone, welcome back to the Love Conquers Fear podcast.
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  I have been really busy with Thanksgiving and so many amazing
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  family moments, but I've also been doing some more reading and
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  listening. I was with with someone recently
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  that recommended the book After the Ecstasy, the laundry.
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  It's by Jack Kornfield and it's all about the difficult part of
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  a spiritual path that usually isn't talked about.
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  It's easy to talk about the ecstasy like a spiritual
• 1:18
  awakening that you've had, which feels amazing, you know, feeling
• 1:22
  that love of God, that warmth, the unconditional love that God
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  has for all of us is, is amazing.
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  It'll change your life. And I wish that all of you have
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  either had that or going to have that.
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  But this book, you know, really talks about once you've had that
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  ecstasy type of experience, which can happen in many
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  different means and modalities, then how do you continue to walk
• 1:49
  that spiritual path? And in all disclosure, you know,
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  I've been walking the spiritual path and it's been amazing.
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  But it does take a lot of work. There's a lot of constant
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  reading recommitment. I was watching the Jay Shetty
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  podcast where Madonna was on, and Madonna found her spiritual
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  path through Kabbalah. And Kabbalah is Jewish mysticism
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  actually quoted from the Zohar in my book The Lattice, where I
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  concluded the book, which is science fiction novella that you
• 2:22
  can get on Amazon. And if you need it and can't
• 2:25
  afford it, just just reach out to me and I'll send you the PDF
• 2:29
  for free. But in The Lattice at the end, I
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  talked about the unification of all religions and I quote from
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  the Zohar and how the ancient spiritual text actually had
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  already found the Lattice, that the ancient Mystics already got
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  it right. But, you know, Madonna really
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  credits Kabbalah with saving her life, and she's been studying it
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  weekly for 29 years, that that's the type of commitment it's
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  taken. And is, you know, she faces
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  something like, you know, an assault from her kids.
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  You know, parenting is definitely the most humbling
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  activity that you can possibly engage in.
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  You know that Kabbalah brings her back to that spiritual root,
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  to the unification of all things, to God's unconditional
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  love for us and how to walk in God's grace.
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  And so it takes work. And Jack Kornfield has this
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  beautiful voice on the audible. Again, the name of the book is
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  After the Ecstasy, the Laundry. I love the title and you really
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  understand it as you go through it and it's a very humbling read
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  because he does cover a lot of the spiritual masters that
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  people would look up to, is very enlightened and how they've had,
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  you know, difficulties in their life and have had to constantly
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  recommit to that path. The other thing that I listened
• 3:49
  to recently is season 2 of the Telepathy Tapes.
• 3:54
  So I've talked about the Telepathy Tapes before.
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  In episode 1 of this podcast, I talked about the shift that that
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  had for me in these autistic children that don't have the
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  ability to speak, but develop telepathic abilities with their
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  caretaker. And this has been studied really
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  in in excruciating detail with Faraday cages and all types of
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  things to make sure that it's real.
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  And the most beautiful part of season 1 of that podcast is the
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  last episode where it's like, what do the non speakers have to
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  communicate to us as humanity? And it's a deep message of love.
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  And it's just an absolutely beautiful episode.
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  Well, season 2 continues this exploration of non local
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  consciousness. This is all the rage right now.
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  Dan Brown's new book, you know, he wrote the Da Vinci Code.
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  His book is called the Secret of Secrets.
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  It's all about non local consciousness.
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  You have Michael Pollan who wrote How to Change Your Mind,
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  as well as The Omnivore's Dilemma and a bunch of other
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  books who his next book is all about non local consciousness.
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  That comes out in February and I can't wait to get my hands on
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  that. Annika Harris's book, you know,
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  she's married to Sam Harris, the famous podcaster and philosopher
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  king and meditator. And her book Lights On concludes
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  that consciousness is fundamental, which is another
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  way of saying non local consciousness.
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  But this season 2 of the Telepsy Tapes is really, really great.
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  It reminds me a lot of Mark Gober's podcast, which called
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  Where is My Mind, which it came out with in 2018.
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  He was on episode 2 of this podcast.
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  And in that podcast, Where's My Mind, he really explores non
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  local consciousness. And the Telepsy Tapes Season 2
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  really explores that deeply with analysis of near death
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  experiences, analysis of savant syndrome, where people like Rain
• 5:54
  Man, you know, get this ability to download from source, you
• 5:58
  know, new languages. You don't have these superhuman
• 6:02
  powers that can't be explained by regular states of
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  consciousness. It covers animal consciousness,
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  which is really, really cool. It covers mediums which have the
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  ability to bring you messages from the beyond from your loved
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  ones. And Laura Lynn Jackson, I've
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  discussed her on this podcast. She's one of my favorite
• 6:21
  authors. And if you haven't listened to
• 6:23
  Signs, her book, her that book on Audible move me to tears in
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  every chapter. I mean, it is that beautiful.
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  So she's on it. It also discovers the act of
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  creativity. I've been continuing to work my
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  way through Rick Rubin's book, The Creative Act, and he's on
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  Season 2 of The Telepathy Tapes and how you get downloads from
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  source when you're practicing creativity.
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  And that can happen very spontaneously.
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  And entire works for artists as well as major books have been
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  written that way. You heard John Mackey talk
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  about, you know, how he has really gotten lots of messages
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  from source and believes that we're all a part of this lucid
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  dream? Check it out.
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  If you haven't listened to Season 2 by the time you hear
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  this episode, the full Season 2 for the Tilapia Tapes will be
• 7:20
  out and I highly recommend it. And Congrats to Kai Dickens on
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  continue to put out some truly, truly beautiful work.
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  So today, I'm really, really honored to welcome a very good
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  friend. Welcome, Pariah.
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  It's so good to be here with you, OK?
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  To be on the show, Brett. Yeah, you know, we should start
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  out with an experience we just had together.
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  We saw the Longhorns beat the Aggies in in a very
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  unprecedented game. You know, that we we didn't know
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  going into that if they would win.
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  They were just slightly favored. And we were at the Dean of the
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  medical school, Claudia. And it was funny because the
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  whole time Claudia was like really nervous that they were
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  finally going to lose. But you know, UT prevailed.
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  So that was a pretty cool experience together.
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  Speaking of feelings, I felt like they were going to win.
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  You did Good, good, good. Yeah, I did.
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  I did too. I felt the energy.
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  There's a lot of good energy in that game.
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  Yes, yeah, I did too. That was super cool.
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  It was super cool to experience that with you.
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  And I know you're wonderful. Your parents have been
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  professors at A&M. They're now retired, and you
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  grew up there, right? And my brother's an Aggie and I
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  grew up there and I took classes there and they say once an
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  Aggie, always an Aggie. So I guess I'm always an Aggie
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  but then chose UT. Yeah, yeah.
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  But we're both, yeah, we're both Longhorn grads and, and it
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  sounds like you're getting involved in the medical school
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  as well. I brought this this hat that
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  Dean Claudia gave me. I'm sure you have one like this.
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  And this is the, the, the teaching hospital that they're
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  building is actually the largest project that UT is ever
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  endeavored to do. It's really exciting.
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  I What got me excited about it is not just that the University
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  of Texas system is one of the only major state school systems
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  that doesn't have a teaching hospital that's integrated, but
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  how cool is it to get to build a Medical Center from scratch in
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  the era of AI? Yeah, yeah.
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  I mean, I, I've got involved in that visor board and
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  specifically for my experience in AI, they're going all in with
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  AI robotics as well as, you know, all types of advanced
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  sensors in the teaching hospital from, from day one, which is
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  going to be really cool. But I learned at the Advisory
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  Board meeting that it's the largest project in UTS history
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  and that kind of blew my mind over 130 year history.
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  And, and I think, I think you're getting involved too, right?
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  I'm trying. So I had a great meeting there
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  today and what I shared and I shared with the Dean at the game
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  we were at is that one of the biggest opportunities, I think
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  when you build a Medical Center from the ground up now with what
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  we know is to recognize that 80% of the workers, the healthcare
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  providers in that building are female or going to be female.
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  Yeah, that blew my mind when you and Claudia were talking about
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  that 80%. Is 80% of the healthcare
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  workforce and majority of doctors are female today, and
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  women utilize the majority of healthcare as well.
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  So they are the providers and the end users.
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  And so how do we really build the biological differences that
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  women have in the clinical differences that women have into
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  the core logic of care delivery, education, every aspect of the
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  center from from day one, both because it's the right thing to
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  do, but also because it's just a smart thing to do.
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  If you want to create a Medical Center that's focused on better
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  outcomes, how can you ignore the female body?
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  Yeah, and and that's, you know, that's really the number one
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  reason I want to have you on. I mean, you and I have known
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  each other for a long time. We've had so many great
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  experiences together. It was amazing being in Necker
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  together back in March. Well, I've had, you know, John
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  Mackey on this podcast. I've had Alexander Mackhoven on
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  this podcast. And that whole experience
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  together was just was just amazing.
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  But you gave a talk out there which kind of blew my mind on
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  how under looked female Healthcare is.
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  And, you know, it made me feel a bit embarrassed because I didn't
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  know that as a guy, you know, and I think that that's the
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  normal state for a lot of a lot of men.
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  Tell the audience about that. Like, why?
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  Why is it that 80% of hospital workers are female?
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  And I think that Dean Claudia said that it was 65% of students
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  in Dell Medical School are female and that that's kind of
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  the normal state in medical schools right now.
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  So why is female healthcare so underlooked given those stats?
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  So there's a lot of reasons why. One of them is that the female
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  body in many ways feels more complicated to study and to
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  understand. We cycle, so we have our
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  menstrual cycle, our hormones rise and fall to a greater
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  degree than we see across a day-to-day experience for men.
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  And and also just generally taking a step back from
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  healthcare, any kind of data or knowledge about biological
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  differences between men and women, sex based differences has
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  been overlooked in all product development in all aspects of
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  innovation. So women today are more likely
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  to, for example, be severely injured or die in a car accident
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  because crash test dummies that took into consideration the
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  differences in the female form didn't enter the picture for
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  product development for cars or for seatbelts, etcetera, until
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  the late 90s. So, so whether it's AI and we
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  can talk about that, whether it's healthcare, whether it's
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  cars, women are not factored in. So we use the majority of all
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  products and we make the majority of buying decisions.
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  So food, one of the things I talked about in Necker was a,
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  women make over 93% of food purchases for themselves, for
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  their families across all consumer good categories.
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  We buy over 80% of all products. We make those purchasing
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  decisions and yet the data that goes into developing those
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  products that we are buying consuming disproportionately
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  less than 1/3 of the data that goes into making any of those
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  products takes into account our biology or our bodies.
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  And so we talked about Necker, there's definitely the, the
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  fairness and the equity and, and, and that side of this,
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  which is that we're over half the planet.
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  We shouldn't have things that work for us.
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  But the economic argument is really, I think the most
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  compelling one, which is that it's unprecedented.
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  It's almost a a breakdown in capitalism that we are not
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  taking into account the the people that we're building the
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  products for. So that that is always felt very
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  confusing to me as to why people don't see this as a white space
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  as an opportunity. And in healthcare, it's no
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  exception. So we didn't even have a mandate
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  again until the 90s for women to be enrolled in clinical trials.
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  Even Fast forward today of the 75 cell lines that are utilized
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  to take things through FDA. So cell lines or experimental
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  systems to test drugs and preclinically before you put
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  them in a body think less than three of them are female cells.
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  And when we think about all the R&D the the research.
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  Development. Sorry, that's three out of how
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  many? Like about 75 about. 75, OK,
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  wow, that's 5%, yes, crazy. So I'm a drug developer for
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  female health and have dedicated my career to this.
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  I've been innovating in Women's Health for over 25 years and I
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  remember there was a very critical experiment we needed to
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  do and we needed a reagent, which was the blood serum from
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  cows. So fetal bovine serum is, is a
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  commonly used reagent in science.
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  And because we were doing something quite unusual, which
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  is developing a drug for a female body from scratch, we
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  needed to find female fetal bovine serum.
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  We could not find it on earth. We scoured the earth.
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  I was joking with my team that I was going to have to climb into
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  the the dairy farm next door to my house, find us some that's
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  some female tick cows. But we ended up having to create
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  our own manufacturing process to create a reagent so that we
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  could even set ourselves up to do an experiment.
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  So you can imagine if we don't even have the female specific
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  reagents to put on female cells, we, we contracted a a very
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  prominent, widely used by pharma contract research organization
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  to do some animal studies for us as well.
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  And we found out after spending hundreds of thousands of dollars
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  on this experiment that they had accidentally put some male
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  animals in with the female animals because the technicians
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  didn't know how to differentiate between the males and the
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  females when they were sexing them.
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  And so I can imagine. It's pretty obvious.
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  You would think it would be obvious.
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  It's actually hard in rodents to tell.
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  But the bottom line is that by saying, let's use female
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  reagents, female specific cells, female animals, at every point
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  we've had headwinds. And and this is in in the late,
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  you know, twenty 20s or mid twenty 20s that we're trying to
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  do this. So so yeah, it's it's we talked
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  about it at Necker and it's a huge opportunity from an
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  economic standpoint. Yeah.
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  Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's it's baffling
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  because, you know, capitalism supposed to just naturally have
• 17:06
  efficient markets, but it is run by people.
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  People have biases. So it's just, yeah, it's
• 17:12
  baffling that that this type of opportunity hasn't been really
• 17:17
  focused on the way it should be. Yeah.
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  And it's it's every level we could dedicate a whole podcast
• 17:23
  to to how we got here. But to throw out some additional
• 17:26
  things, we know that a huge way that we fund innovation so that
• 17:30
  we can have these products is through government spending.
• 17:35
  We spend more researching male pattern baldness then we spend
• 17:41
  researching a condition called endometriosis, which is a health
• 17:44
  condition that impacts one out of every 10 women on earth, has
• 17:48
  no diagnostic test to diagnose it.
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  So there's a 10 year delay to diagnosis for most women.
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  You have to go in surgically and visualize the cells to be able
• 17:57
  to diagnose it and and it has no cure.
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  And it's a disease that not only is debilitatingly painful for
• 18:05
  women who have it early in life, they miss volleyball practice,
• 18:09
  they have to drop out of the lacrosse team, but later it sets
• 18:13
  them up for mental health issues, for infertility.
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  When they are able to get pregnant, they're at greater
• 18:20
  risk for very dangerous pregnancy outcomes like
• 18:23
  preeclampsia. And then lifelong, they have a
• 18:24
  higher risk of certain types of cancers and heart disease, which
• 18:27
  is a number one killer of women. It's such an impactful disease
• 18:30
  and we spend less researching it then male pattern balding so
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  that. And you don't see people losing
• 18:37
  their life because of male maybe maybe losing something, but not
• 18:43
  their life. Not their life.
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  So we really have, we're not spending our research dollars in
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  in a way that would be the smartest for delivering long
• 18:52
  term healthy aging outcomes for, for women or for all humans.
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  Because when we talk about preeclampsia, for example, a
• 19:01
  high risk pregnancy that has risk for the offspring as well.
• 19:05
  So I remind people that Women's Health is human health because
• 19:08
  we just date 100% of humans. So what happened in your
• 19:15
  mother's? Body.
• 19:15
  Any exceptions to that? Yeah, you you were you were part
• 19:19
  of a woman's body for. I was is her life, a woman who
• 19:23
  put a tremendous amount of love in me.
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  I mean, all the love I have in my heart, you know, started with
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  my mom who is just selflessly loving me all the time.
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  Amazing. Yeah, yeah, she was incredible.
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  Yeah. She gave me the the gift of my
• 19:37
  passion, you know, starting as at age 7.
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  She really, she really helped me tune into my soul song, which
• 19:43
  was to create a better world through technology.
• 19:45
  I mean, Speaking of your soul song, like, like it's it is this
• 19:48
  is it, right. And tell me, tell me about your
• 19:51
  company. So I have been innovating in
• 19:54
  Women's Health for over 25 years, the last seventeen of
• 19:56
  which I've been doing so as an entrepreneur.
• 20:01
  So I was raised by academics, grew up in Called Station,
• 20:05
  raised by Aggie professors, and assumed that that was going to
• 20:08
  be my path as well. I went into research labs in an
• 20:11
  early age through A&M and AUT and beyond in my PhD, but I
• 20:16
  always kind of felt like an ugly duckling in academia.
• 20:20
  I think basic research is so important, but ultimately.
• 20:24
  You can just keep publishing paper after paper.
• 20:27
  The, the thing that really I feel very called to and, and
• 20:32
  feel very passionate about is taking all that knowledge that
• 20:35
  we're generating and making sure that we have new things, new
• 20:39
  interventions and medications or insights that can really power
• 20:43
  better health care outcomes for people.
• 20:45
  So for me, as I progressed, I got my PhD at Cornells medical
• 20:49
  school in New York and where I went to after I left UT and then
• 20:53
  I did my postdoctoral work in Cambridge.
• 20:56
  And for me, I got really lucky during my PhD that I was on the
• 21:01
  front lines of precision medicine in healthcare.
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  So precision medicine I think is advance the furthest in in
• 21:09
  cancer. So people might be most familiar
• 21:11
  with this paradigm in cancer, which is that we used to treat
• 21:13
  cancer as this is a breast cancer, this is a blood cancer,
• 21:17
  this is a brain cancer. And it was very focused on the
• 21:21
  organ that the cancer was in. And we also had very blunt tools
• 21:26
  to go after cancer. So we could physically remove
• 21:29
  tissue from the body or we could go after cell growth, but
• 21:32
  there's a lot of cells that need to grow.
• 21:33
  And so chemotherapy, you know, had a very high cost and, and,
• 21:37
  and low effectiveness. So the real AHA last century in
• 21:43
  the cancer field was that cancers caused by genetic
• 21:47
  mutations stimulating inside cells and it, it actually
• 21:51
  rewrites the programming of the cell.
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  And so the cell stops functioning in harmony with
• 21:56
  other cells and, and starts at an evolutionary path where it's
• 22:00
  in it for itself. And so the insight that was
• 22:06
  brought about by our ability to genetically sequence at scale
• 22:09
  was that when you have somebody who presents with a tumor,
• 22:13
  instead of treating it as a breast cancer or, you know,
• 22:17
  kidney cancer, you can actually go in and you can take a small
• 22:21
  amount of those cells. You can genetically sequence
• 22:23
  them and you can see what has changed and what makes those
• 22:27
  cells unique. That insight, being able to go
• 22:30
  on a cellular molecular level into that cancer and get that
• 22:33
  insight, then did three really important things.
• 22:35
  One, we could then screen for people who had predisposition
• 22:39
  because they already had some genetic differences that gave
• 22:42
  those cancer cells an edge to to become cancer faster.
• 22:47
  And so this is, for example, the bracha markers we can now use to
• 22:51
  screen people for breast cancer risk or ovarian cancer risk,
• 22:55
  which colon cancer syndromes that run in families we can
• 22:59
  screen. And those people can start
• 23:00
  getting colonoscopies in their, you know, 20s, thirties.
• 23:04
  So that was one thing. The second thing is that we
• 23:06
  could really start to treat a cancer based on molecularly what
• 23:11
  was wrong with it. And so we find now that you
• 23:13
  might treat a breast cancer the same way you treat a brain
• 23:15
  cancer, which would have been unheard of in the past.
• 23:19
  But then the third, and this relates to my story as well, is
• 23:22
  that by understanding molecularly what was going wrong
• 23:26
  in the cells, it catalyzed this incredible era of drug
• 23:30
  development where we could go and, and not target cell growth
• 23:34
  in the classic chemo. And you know, your hair falls
• 23:36
  out and you're very sick, but you could actually just go in
• 23:39
  and just go after that molecule. And it turns out that modern
• 23:42
  chemotherapies, you probably know people who are on these
• 23:45
  modern chemotherapies, they're up walking their dog, they're
• 23:48
  home with their families. They're feeling great because
• 23:51
  we're going after in a precise way, right precision medicine,
• 23:54
  The one thing that is wrong molecularly and and fixing that
• 23:58
  thing than the cancer. That's really exciting.
• 24:02
  Sadly, for a number of reasons we talked about, that playbook
• 24:05
  has not come to Women's Health outside of cancer.
• 24:08
  You know, one, one thing that I've always found baffling about
• 24:11
  cancer, I mean, my mom passed away from cancer.
• 24:13
  She she passed away from lung cancer, never smoked in her
• 24:15
  entire life. Just something environmental or
• 24:18
  whatever happened is that, you know, it does tend to jaunt into
• 24:25
  different places, right? And that that's what happened to
• 24:28
  my mom, as we called it, Stage 3.
• 24:30
  And then it went Stage 4 and went into her bones.
• 24:32
  And that was unrecoverable after a really, really horrible year
• 24:38
  of chemo, which really devastated her body because it
• 24:41
  wasn't targeted back then. This was about 15 years ago.
• 24:46
  Is that what you're describing? Sounds so logical, intuitive,
• 24:53
  almost common, sensical that like we would, I mean two things
• 24:57
  like one, that the people that would study like a specific
• 25:00
  cancer would naturally collaborate across other forms
• 25:04
  of cancer. I don't think that was the case.
• 25:06
  And two, that they would do that because of the fact that the
• 25:11
  people that die from cancer, it's tends to be where it goes
• 25:14
  in other parts of the body, therefore becoming other forms
• 25:18
  of cancer. Yes.
• 25:19
  So this idea of, of something that starts off in in one organ
• 25:23
  metastasizing as they call it, and going to other organs is
• 25:25
  common across cancers. And there are certain things
• 25:28
  that like you mentioned lung cancer, there's certain cancers
• 25:31
  that tend to go to the bone or tend to go to, you know, the
• 25:36
  brain or so. So under seeing this common
• 25:40
  mechanisms catalyze this entire new era in cancer treatment.
• 25:44
  We can screen for it, we can better diagnose it.
• 25:46
  We can subset people in clinical trials to run more effective
• 25:49
  clinical trials. When you can run more effective
• 25:51
  clinical trials, you can bring more drugs to market.
• 25:54
  And now we're at a place where for many people, we are curing
• 25:56
  their cancers. Circling back to.
• 26:00
  How much has that rate gone up, by the way, in terms of curing,
• 26:04
  which is a? Really good question.
• 26:05
  I, you know, I left the cancer field, so I'm, I'm not going to
• 26:08
  be the the best with with that statistic, but but the aha
• 26:12
  moment that I had was that this, this paradigm of understand your
• 26:17
  genetics so you can see around corners and anticipate and be
• 26:19
  really proactive in managing your healthcare.
• 26:23
  When you have a disease, understand what makes that
• 26:27
  disease unique in your body versus someone else who might
• 26:29
  have that disease, and then have a a wide a range of tools that
• 26:34
  your physician has to go after those specific root causes in
• 26:38
  you. That playbook of precision
• 26:40
  medicine was not being translated to Women's Health.
• 26:43
  So back in O 9, I got inspired to start a company and founded
• 26:50
  Cellmatics, which is now Cellmatics Therapeutics 17 years
• 26:54
  later. We started off as a data company
• 26:57
  first and foremost, and we wanted to understand for
• 27:00
  conditions that uniquely impact women, menopause, certain types
• 27:03
  of infertility, endometriosis, which I mentioned, PCOS,
• 27:07
  polycystic ovary syndrome, which is a another very debilitating
• 27:11
  condition that impacts another 10% of all women.
• 27:15
  We really wanted to understand them on a molecular genetic
• 27:18
  level and then take that insight to then run that playbook, help
• 27:21
  women screen earlier in their lives, help run more efficient
• 27:24
  clinical trials, help physicians really diagnose what's going on
• 27:27
  in a root cause and then ultimately have more drugs.
• 27:30
  And so Fast forward over the years, we launched A
• 27:32
  groundbreaking diagnostic. We were early in digital health
• 27:35
  and guiding clinical decision support with this new
• 27:38
  information that we were bringing to light.
• 27:39
  And and then about six years ago, we went all in on drug
• 27:43
  discovery and we now have 4 very exciting drug programs across
• 27:46
  menopause, endometriosis, it's awesome and infertility.
• 27:50
  Yeah, and this AI moment too is big a big accelerant for you.
• 27:54
  It's been huge. It's been huge when we made the
• 27:56
  decision to go into drug discovery.
• 27:59
  That's a really expensive thing to do, and taking a step back
• 28:05
  again on what we talked about earlier, it was very hard to
• 28:09
  fundraise. So when I got started, I think
• 28:12
  the statistic was about 0.8% of all venture capital dollars.
• 28:17
  So these are the primary dollars that innovators rely on to pull
• 28:20
  technology out of the biomedical research zone and into the path
• 28:25
  of creating products. Less than 1%.
• 28:28
  So 0.8% of venture dollars went to female founders.
• 28:32
  What is statistic in O9? We ended up cresting at about
• 28:38
  2.2% this year. The latest statistic I've heard
• 28:43
  is we're on track to be at 0.7% of the venture capital dollars.
• 28:48
  And I go to females this year. So you can imagine for me, I'm
• 28:52
  female and doing Women's Health. Women's Health gets less than
• 28:56
  1%. So 80% of Women's Health
• 28:59
  companies are founded by women. Women's Health gets less than 1%
• 29:03
  of all innovation dollars of healthcare investments.
• 29:07
  And within that, a very tiny fashion goes to deep tech.
• 29:10
  So the true discovery work where you're building new things from
• 29:13
  scratch, most of that goes to tech.
• 29:14
  So taking hormone replacement and creating an app to get to
• 29:18
  more women, for example, or tracking periods on an app,
• 29:21
  that's where the dollars go. So I was really struggling to
• 29:25
  raise money to, you know, a joke that in in other forms of drug
• 29:31
  discovery, people are out on a deserted island with metal
• 29:35
  detectors trying to find the tiniest little glimmer of
• 29:37
  insight to have their cancer drug be differentiated from this
• 29:41
  cancer drug. In women's house.
• 29:44
  We're sitting on these boulders of gold on the beach.
• 29:49
  Yeah, we don't need a metal detector, but no one will bring
• 29:52
  a ship to grab the boulder and take it off the island.
• 29:55
  And that's the place of frustration where there's this
• 29:58
  perception that because there is not as much biomedical research
• 30:02
  funding, that we just don't understand the science.
• 30:05
  The science isn't there. We just don't know even what to
• 30:08
  go after. Not true.
• 30:10
  We don't have enough biomedical research funding.
• 30:12
  However, we do have a lot of insights that are ready for game
• 30:16
  time to be translated. And while I was struggling to
• 30:20
  raise money, what I did was I took a step back and I gave
• 30:23
  myself some grace because what I realized is the last time we
• 30:27
  developed a drug from scratch. So starting with those cells in
• 30:31
  the lab and going all the way into approval for a woman, for
• 30:35
  condition, just for women, the last time we did that was a
• 30:39
  birth control pill. Wow.
• 30:41
  Oh my gosh. That was almost 100 hours ago.
• 30:43
  So that was the 1940s fifties. Wow, that's the last time we did
• 30:47
  it. Which is, which is a huge
• 30:49
  market. It's a huge market.
• 30:50
  I mean, it's it's it's it's obvious that that, yeah, it's
• 30:54
  really baffling. Like it really makes.
• 30:56
  Sense and if you think about the last time that humanity did what
• 31:02
  my company is doing, which is developing from scratch drugs
• 31:05
  for women's bodies based on that biological insight, the last
• 31:09
  time we did that predates the VC industry by about 3 decades.
• 31:14
  So the VC industry really picked up in the 80s or talking about
• 31:17
  something that hasn't happened since the 50s.
• 31:20
  I gave myself some grace that I was doing something V CS have
• 31:25
  literally never funded in the history of VC.
• 31:29
  That's been tough. That's been tough.
• 31:31
  But Fast forward, we have, we have gotten a lot of money
• 31:34
  through family offices, foundations, ARPA H is an
• 31:39
  incredible agency within the US. It's kind of like DARPA.
• 31:42
  So the Defense Advanced Research.
• 31:44
  Yeah, I've had meetings with them, the dated out world days
• 31:47
  with our page. And so building on the Operation
• 31:50
  Warp Speed approach to innovation that was pioneered in
• 31:55
  the first Trump administration and then continuing on during
• 31:57
  the Biden administration. For the pandemic.
• 31:59
  For the pandemic, they created ARPAH, which is a, an ARPA for
• 32:03
  health and we've gotten some key funds that have been catalytic
• 32:07
  from ARPAH as well. But to circle back to your
• 32:09
  question about AI, what what gave us the faith that even
• 32:13
  though we're in such a under resourced environment for
• 32:16
  innovation that we could, we could go after some of the holy
• 32:20
  grails in the field. So for example, our RPH funded
• 32:23
  program is to extend ovarian function throughout the
• 32:27
  lifespan. So right now women and men don't
• 32:30
  age equitably because our gonads which are fundamental endocrine
• 32:34
  and metabolic immune organ in addition to being a reproductive
• 32:37
  organ for men based on the modern human lifespan which is
• 32:42
  into the late 70s, early 80s, men have lifelong gonadal
• 32:46
  function. Your testes will continue to
• 32:47
  function throughout your lifespan.
• 32:50
  And for women, hour gonad stopped working around 50 and
• 32:55
  really go offline through a process called perimenopause
• 32:58
  about 10 years before that, where we have a lot of
• 33:00
  fluctuation and, and ovarian function.
• 33:02
  We become infertile. We have, you know, rises and
• 33:05
  falls in our hormones that are, are not normal.
• 33:08
  And then after 50, there's really no detectable activity
• 33:11
  from the, from the ovary. And so we have a drug program to
• 33:15
  extend ovarian function, gonadal function throughout the
• 33:17
  lifespan. So women can age like a fine
• 33:19
  line just like men do. We have a cure for endometriosis
• 33:23
  that we're working on, and we're getting rid of needles from IVF.
• 33:27
  The reason we have needles, when you hear about people going
• 33:30
  through egg freezing or fertility treatment for IVF is
• 33:32
  because you have to inject a very large hormone straight into
• 33:37
  your bloodstream. You can't absorb it through your
• 33:39
  gut. That hormone is called follicle
• 33:42
  stimulating hormone. It goes to a receptor molecule
• 33:47
  which is called follicle stimulating hormone receptor,
• 33:50
  FSH receptor and it binds to it and and that receptor changes
• 33:53
  configuration and that change of configuration signals to the
• 33:57
  cell the hormone bound. It turns out the reason that we
• 34:03
  aren't able to create any oral medications or weren't able to
• 34:06
  create oral medications to replace that hormone binding is
• 34:10
  that you can go in with a small molecule and you can trick the
• 34:14
  receptor into thinking a hormone bound.
• 34:16
  So you can go directly into the receptor, change the
• 34:18
  configuration it signals as if the hormone bound.
• 34:21
  The problem with FSH receptor is it is very closely related to
• 34:25
  thyroid stimulating hormone receptor.
• 34:27
  OK? Generally they look almost
• 34:29
  identical. And so pharma had gone after
• 34:33
  this problem. You know, it's a $4 billion
• 34:37
  annual market for these injected fertility drugs and they just
• 34:42
  couldn't get more than a 1 to 50 separation.
• 34:45
  The best efforts, decades of of work, they got a 1 to 50
• 34:48
  separation in the ability to hit thyroid, hit FSH receptor and
• 34:52
  avoid thyroid simulating hormone receptor.
• 34:54
  If you hit TSH receptor, that's a life threatening off target at
• 34:59
  risk. So we realized, OK, well those
• 35:04
  efforts weren't done in the era of AI.
• 35:07
  What if we use AI to really model this receptor based on the
• 35:12
  data we have out there on the atomic resolution of it and then
• 35:16
  use AI to figure out how can you go in with a small molecule,
• 35:22
  something that could be orally bioavailable and and tweak that
• 35:25
  receptor in that way. Fast forward a few, $1,000,000
• 35:29
  in 18 months and we were able to get one in 10,000.
• 35:35
  Separation. Wow.
• 35:37
  In a very small budget with a very small skeleton team at a
• 35:40
  very under resourced little Women's Health company, we
• 35:43
  basically cracked open the Holy Grail that pharma had not been
• 35:47
  able to do with all their money and all their time thanks to AI.
• 35:50
  So that's a great story. And you and I have talked about
• 35:54
  when I talk about Women's Health, sometimes it, it can be
• 35:57
  seen, it's kind of depressing, right?
• 35:59
  It's it's, you hear these stats and, and it feels really
• 36:02
  discouraging. Well, definitely feels it can
• 36:05
  be. Yes, it is, but it also it makes
• 36:08
  you think, Oh my gosh, there's such opportunity.
• 36:10
  You're thank you See, you're an entrepreneur and an investor.
• 36:13
  So you're, you're thinking about it the right way and I think
• 36:15
  about. It Well, you are too.
• 36:17
  You're both an entrepreneur and an.
• 36:18
  Investor Well, so we, we, we think about it that way.
• 36:22
  For a lot of people, they get very, you know, discouraged at
• 36:24
  dinner parties or whenever I talk about this.
• 36:25
  But what I like to say to them and you and I've talked about
• 36:28
  this is but we can catch up. And I think the story of our FSH
• 36:33
  program is a great story of how in the era of AI, we can catch
• 36:38
  up. Building a Medical Center from
• 36:40
  the ground up, We can catch up. There's so many things now in
• 36:44
  the era of data and AI that we can in a very short period of
• 36:48
  time, even though we're starting, Women's Health is
• 36:51
  probably easily 60 years behind other fields of medicine.
• 36:57
  We can catch up. Yeah, well, yes, it's 60 years
• 37:00
  behind, but time, time is illusion.
• 37:03
  But we won't go there. The the, the, the place we'll go
• 37:06
  is that the everything is speeding up.
• 37:10
  I mean, like, you know, you've been in tech for a long time.
• 37:13
  And to me, a week of tech progress in 2025 feels like a
• 37:17
  year in 2015. And I can't imagine what it's
• 37:21
  going to feel like in 2035. Is that going to feel like an
• 37:25
  hour or two progress? And so given the size of the
• 37:30
  opportunity and you know, there's, I'm sure there's lots
• 37:35
  of reasons why it's been overlooked.
• 37:36
  You know, the dominance of males in VC, although that's hopefully
• 37:41
  starting to change. Although those stats you gave
• 37:43
  aren't very promising in terms of .7% today, you know that
• 37:50
  there's just such a huge economic opportunity as we
• 37:55
  endeavor on this path to the age of abundance for all.
• 37:58
  And by all, of course, it means all genders too.
• 38:02
  And it's, yeah, it, it's, it's a huge, you know, I really predict
• 38:06
  for you, I think there's a Nobel Prize in your future.
• 38:09
  I really do. I mean demos Sasibus got got one
• 38:11
  for Alpha Fold and this this frontier that you're really
• 38:16
  helping pioneer and now leading with AI, it's a huge
• 38:20
  opportunity. I mean Alpha fold was a big
• 38:23
  breakthrough, right? It's like.
• 38:24
  That's. Seriously, the end of lots of
• 38:26
  diseases is is now we figured out the protein folding problem.
• 38:31
  But you know, what you're talking about for Women's Health
• 38:34
  is a huge, huge breakthrough. I think it is one of the biggest
• 38:38
  catalysts we could possibly have in healthcare today is to you
• 38:42
  think about the information that's encoded in women's
• 38:45
  bodies. We have superpowers when so I've
• 38:48
  I've been blessed with I've had three children and what I've
• 38:55
  what I've described it as is I you know, I thought I was like a
• 38:58
  solid like a Honda, Toyota, you know, reliable of my body was
• 39:01
  this like functioning machine. And then all of a sudden when I
• 39:05
  was pregnant, I turned into like a Ferrari into this, you know
• 39:10
  what my breast made milk to feed a human.
• 39:14
  I mean, my children lived 100% of all of the intake,
• 39:17
  nutritional intake that they took into their bodies for six
• 39:20
  months each came out of my breast.
• 39:22
  I mean, like, talk about superpowers.
• 39:26
  I, I grew an organ from scratch in my body, a placenta.
• 39:31
  The placenta's the only human organ where you grow it when you
• 39:35
  need it, and then you get rid of it.
• 39:37
  And then you grow another one if you need another one and get rid
• 39:39
  of it. You're right, Licenta is one of
• 39:41
  the most understudied organs ever.
• 39:44
  No surprise. And yet it should be one of the
• 39:46
  most overstudied. If we want to understand
• 39:48
  regenerative medicine and we want to understand stem cells
• 39:50
  and we want to understand how we can continue to refresh our
• 39:54
  bodies. You hear about, you know, when
• 39:57
  you chop off the arm of a particular Organism and it can
• 40:00
  grow an arm back and everybody's fascinated.
• 40:02
  But pregnant women do it all the time.
• 40:03
  We grow an organ and we get rid of it and we grow it again.
• 40:06
  So our blood volume. You know, more than double SI
• 40:12
  mean. The things that our bodies are
• 40:13
  able to do during pregnancy and postpartum are just miraculous.
• 40:18
  And you would think just from a place of sheer curiosity,
• 40:22
  discovery and a desire to go after white space and unlock
• 40:26
  these hidden mechanisms of our biology, Pregnancy and, and the
• 40:30
  female body would be the most studied aspect of biology, not
• 40:34
  the least studied aspect of biology.
• 40:37
  So I, I think it's a very exciting space to be.
• 40:39
  And I mean, it was super challenging on a day-to-day
• 40:42
  basis, but, but has so much potential to unlock.
• 40:47
  And one of the other things that I'm really proud of, we're going
• 40:50
  to be doing a bigger push in the new year and talking about it
• 40:52
  more. But we, we founded it in 2025 is
• 40:56
  I have helped found an organization called Eve's Arc.
• 41:00
  And Eve's Arc is an organization that is trying to help the world
• 41:05
  get ready for the intersection of Women's Health and AI.
• 41:08
  So we are identifying and going out to secure the fundamental
• 41:14
  data resources within Women's Health and put them under one
• 41:19
  umbrella where innovators can come to our door.
• 41:21
  And instead of starting on day one, every time we go to one of
• 41:24
  these panels related to Women's Health, it's the same story.
• 41:27
  We don't have data. We don't have data.
• 41:28
  We have so much data, Brad. There's so much data, not
• 41:32
  enough, but we have so much. It's not being used, It's not
• 41:35
  being prepared for AI. So we see a future where Eve, so
• 41:40
  by the way, we we wanted to name.
• 41:43
  So it's ARC because it's like 2 by 2.
• 41:45
  They went on to the ARC. So you preserve the data you
• 41:48
  think of like the small barred seed repository or something.
• 41:51
  We want to create that arc for for Women's Health knowledge in
• 41:54
  part because during some of the turbulence we saw during the
• 41:57
  Doge era, etcetera in government, a number of these
• 42:00
  data sets were derailed pretty significantly because they were
• 42:02
  housed primarily within the government.
• 42:05
  So we said, OK, never again, let's find these key data assets
• 42:07
  to make sure that we're creating a secure mechanism for them
• 42:10
  outside of government. But we wanted to to name the ark
• 42:15
  after Noah's wives. So it turns out, no, I had
• 42:17
  multiple wives. But it, it doesn't seem like
• 42:20
  anyone wrote their names down so we can figure out what it was,
• 42:24
  right. So this VC funding issue has,
• 42:27
  you know, runs pretty. It started started a long time
• 42:29
  ago. Started a long time ago of women
• 42:31
  not being part of the story, but we've all heard of Eve.
• 42:35
  Actually, my great grandmother's name was Eve.
• 42:39
  I love that name. It is a beautiful name and and
• 42:41
  sadly she died during childbirth, so my grandfather
• 42:44
  never met her and by her legacy lived on through him and now
• 42:48
  through me. And so we named it Eve's Arc.
• 42:52
  And the idea is that over time, the arc will grow to encompass
• 42:56
  incredible data sets. And beyond biomedical research,
• 42:59
  there's so much wisdom and indigenous knowledge in
• 43:02
  traditional medicine and in alternative modalities.
• 43:06
  And that knowledge is also being lost as we do over index, I
• 43:10
  think, on the Western approach to biomedical research and
• 43:13
  knowledge creation. So eventually we want EVE to be
• 43:15
  this safe haven and home for the fundamental data sets related to
• 43:22
  women's bodies. Maybe eventually a funding
• 43:25
  mechanism to generate more knowledge.
• 43:27
  But then ultimately we want to get it all ready for AI, because
• 43:30
  I think AI is just going to just unlock so much if we can get all
• 43:34
  this data together and train it. Yeah, very, very cool.
• 43:37
  So shifting, shifting for a moment.
• 43:40
  I'm curious, you know, you have this very scientific, beautiful
• 43:44
  mind. You know, it's amazing academic
• 43:47
  credentials. And one of the things that I
• 43:51
  talked about at Necker, you know, my presentation was on the
• 43:54
  hard problem of consciousness in this exponential age of AI,
• 43:58
  quantum computing, robotics. And now, now I would add, and
• 44:02
  I've been adding in my book Love Conquers Fear, which coming out
• 44:06
  next year. I've been adding also brain
• 44:08
  computer interfaces. And I've explored those as well
• 44:12
  in my science fiction novella, The Lattice, which I just had a
• 44:15
  blast, you know, writing and I've gotten lots of, lots of
• 44:19
  love back for that. So how, how do you view this
• 44:22
  moment in terms of, you know, I had this episode with Aneal
• 44:26
  where we dove deep. That was episode 11 on Could AI
• 44:31
  become conscious and how? How do you think about that?
• 44:35
  I have really, I would say that 2025 was a big year for me and
• 44:40
  how I think about this, there were a couple of anchor points
• 44:43
  that I can point to. Honestly, it started with your
• 44:46
  talk Necker. So if anybody hasn't seen that
• 44:48
  talk, it's, it's online. I I really highly recommend it.
• 44:52
  Actually, you know what, it's not online.
• 44:54
  You know what I I did put it online for friends, but it's a
• 44:59
  really good point. I'll put it in the show notes
• 45:02
  because because I've never actually publicly shared that
• 45:05
  that I had. I had a blast with that.
• 45:07
  It was really and and it was just a blast being there with
• 45:09
  you. I just want to honor that, that
• 45:10
  like we were in, we're on, you know, Fantasy Island or
• 45:14
  something, or like Kangaroos and Lickmers and, you know, giant
• 45:18
  turtles and, you know, Richard Branson running up to the dock.
• 45:21
  And I was like, who is I running up to the dock?
• 45:23
  Like their staff seem so nice here.
• 45:25
  And I'm like, Oh my gosh, that's Richard Burns.
• 45:28
  This. The whole thing was magical.
• 45:29
  It was it was it was really incredible.
• 45:33
  Your talk was really an anchor point for me because it
• 45:36
  introduced this idea and I hope everybody gets a chance to watch
• 45:39
  it. It introduced this idea that the
• 45:44
  I'm going to put words in, you tell me if I got this right.
• 45:46
  But what I took home from it was that the the convergence of the
• 45:52
  incredible compute power we're going to get from things like
• 45:56
  quantum computing, together with the methodologies that we're
• 45:59
  developing around artificial intelligence, is finally going
• 46:02
  to put us into a place where we can empirically figure out the
• 46:07
  nature of God and consciousness. That's right.
• 46:09
  And that is exactly what I wrote the Lattice about.
• 46:12
  OK, great. The the unification point just
• 46:15
  because I don't think you've read the Lattice.
• 46:16
  So let me. Just give it to me a couple
• 46:18
  days. Ago.
• 46:18
  Yeah, exactly. So let me, let me explain it
• 46:20
  real quick, real quickly, but it actually came through a, through
• 46:24
  a psychedelic journey that I did like the the Part 1 of the
• 46:27
  lattice. And it was this this vision that
• 46:35
  the way that humanity could unite, because humanity does
• 46:40
  worship science and you know, the rational mind and I get all
• 46:43
  that and I'm a product of science.
• 46:45
  You know, I I've certainly made a whole career out of computer
• 46:49
  science, even though it's Amis major.
• 46:51
  But you know, I've been programming since I was since I
• 46:53
  was seven years old. Is, is the way to unify humanity
• 47:00
  is to prove the nature of our connectedness.
• 47:05
  And the way to do that would be through brain computer
• 47:09
  interfaces. And so the protagonist in the
• 47:13
  Lattice is this guy, Doctor Alexander Bliss.
• 47:16
  And Doctor Alexander Bliss is a quantum physics genius.
• 47:21
  He has 25 patents in this area of quantum physics, which is
• 47:25
  focused on how the universe was created.
• 47:28
  It's like the people that hang out at CERN and, you know, with
• 47:32
  the Higgs boson and all of that. And he, he, he experiences
• 47:39
  through a journey, his first ever psychedelic journey, which
• 47:43
  he thinks is just going to be neurochemical tricks.
• 47:45
  But his friends keep on encouraging him because he's
• 47:47
  like stumped on something. They're like, no, this will help
• 47:49
  you really understand the nature of reality.
• 47:52
  So he decides to do it and he, he sees the unification of all
• 47:55
  things. He sees what he calls the
• 47:58
  lattice. And then he does it again.
• 48:01
  And he sees the same thing. And that same thing to him is
• 48:06
  like, OK, now I have reproducibility, which is the
• 48:09
  scientific, you know, gold. And then he's like, well, how
• 48:14
  can I get humanity to see this? And so he has this audacious
• 48:17
  idea to hook up psychonauts, the Dalai Lama, you know, deep
• 48:21
  meditator, spiritual masters all over the world to look for the
• 48:26
  common root when they're in a state of deep meditation, no
• 48:31
  matter how they got there. And he sees the lattice across
• 48:36
  them. And you know, the Mark Gober
• 48:38
  episode on episode 2, we covered that our brains receive
• 48:45
  consciousness. And as a antenna and a receiver
• 48:49
  of conscience of two things can be true.
• 48:50
  You can manifest consciousness or you can have a damaged brain.
• 48:53
  And that can affect, you know, your ability to to receive
• 48:57
  consciousness and you can receive it.
• 48:59
  And I've certainly seen that through, through my own
• 49:01
  journeys, you know, where you get that kind of flood dose of
• 49:05
  consciousness because the ego goes offline and there's lots of
• 49:08
  different ways to, to, to reach that state.
• 49:12
  But he, you know, I covered with, with Mark Gobert that we
• 49:15
  only understand what 4% of the universe is made of.
• 49:17
  We call that matter. So 96% we just, it's a
• 49:20
  scientific kind of plug. We call it dark energy and dark
• 49:25
  matter. We have no idea what it is.
• 49:26
  We have no idea like, like what the majority of the reality that
• 49:31
  we can even perceive is made of, much less the reality that we
• 49:35
  can't perceive, you know, which is all different subject.
• 49:39
  So, you know, he proves it at at A at a documentary Film
• 49:44
  Festival, he unveils that. And it has this major effect on
• 49:48
  humanity where humanity starts to unite because they see what
• 49:52
  our actual reality is and they see that science and
• 49:55
  spirituality did not need to be so dogmatically separated.
• 49:58
  And frankly, they weren't in the past.
• 50:01
  And we just kind of, you know, we evolved with capitalism and
• 50:05
  all these mostly beautiful things that we've done to, you
• 50:08
  know, let people out of starvation and poverty.
• 50:12
  The one of the points I made in Necker, you know, way before I
• 50:16
  envision I was going to write a science fiction novella about
• 50:18
  this, is that that that our acceleration with AI, quantum
• 50:24
  computing and robotics is going to lead us to the nature of like
• 50:28
  what makes us most human? Like, is there anything special
• 50:31
  about us at all? So this question of can AI be
• 50:36
  sentient like us, you know, receive consciousness like we
• 50:40
  do? It's a really big question for
• 50:43
  me. And you know, that's why I was
• 50:46
  exploring that on that episode with the Neil.
• 50:48
  Yeah, and it's fascinating. I think you you got me thinking
• 50:51
  about it on Necker. That was really important.
• 50:56
  The next touch point that I had where I I thought about it was
• 51:00
  actually interestingly, we were together again at the Ted
• 51:03
  conference in Vancouver. So we saw each other there as
• 51:06
  well. And I think we're both in that
• 51:09
  Ted talk that Mustafa Suleiman gave where he described his work
• 51:16
  in AI and how it was, it was progressing way faster than even
• 51:21
  the people like himself who've been really at the edges of of
• 51:24
  pushing it forward have envisioned it could progress.
• 51:28
  And and the thing that really unlocked me building on the
• 51:31
  thoughts that had started really the seed in Necker with your
• 51:34
  talk was that he said that he was firmly in the and I think
• 51:39
  everybody should go watch most of us.
• 51:42
  Mustafa Suleiman's amazing. His most recent post to on
• 51:45
  LinkedIn are phenomenal. They actually address this exact
• 51:48
  topic. Interesting.
• 51:50
  He, he, he's very worried because I've been following him
• 51:54
  a lot. He's very worried that humanity
• 51:56
  is going to fall for AI being conscious when he's like, look,
• 52:00
  it is not conscious right now. And he and and, you know, we see
• 52:04
  some downfall of that. Like we've seen some people take
• 52:08
  their lives because they think they're joining this being in
• 52:11
  the beyond because AI is like coaching them in that way now.
• 52:14
  Yeah, I don't think that's the norm, but if it is kind of a
• 52:17
  caution, but. One of the things he said in
• 52:19
  this Ted Talk that we saw in Vancouver was that he was firmly
• 52:24
  in the tools camp. He's calling it.
• 52:26
  These are tools. They get sort our trash.
• 52:28
  They can, you know, run our subways, whatever.
• 52:31
  And, and now he realizes that we've created a digital species.
• 52:39
  That term digital species for me was such an unlocker on this
• 52:43
  journey because I'm a biologist and so, you know, understand
• 52:48
  evolution and, and it, it, it clicked into my head that we, we
• 52:55
  create this bifurcation. We, you know, I've talked about
• 52:59
  just even on this podcast, just the siloing of different things,
• 53:02
  male, female, etcetera. I think we're in an era where
• 53:08
  we're starting to see that there's more commonalities
• 53:10
  across everything than there are differences.
• 53:14
  There are clearly distinct female bodies have different
• 53:18
  organs and male bodies etcetera. There are differences.
• 53:21
  But under the surface, just like in in cancer where we realized
• 53:25
  that molecularly what might be driving breast cancer to
• 53:28
  metastasize might be the same thing driving a, you know, liver
• 53:32
  cancer to metastasize etcetera. I think similarly what I
• 53:37
  realized is that we're on this spectrum of abandoning our meat
• 53:42
  based bodies. We're on a journey where it
• 53:48
  started really with tools and then we could get in cars and
• 53:53
  those cars could propel us or the planes or rockets could
• 53:55
  propel us. We've started to incorporate
• 53:59
  machines into our bodies. Think about how many people we
• 54:02
  know who have an artificial joint or some kind of you know,
• 54:06
  certainly in their teeth. I always tell people that I'm
• 54:10
  already an augmented human. I don't know if you know this,
• 54:13
  but I'm -6.5 in this eye and I'm -6 in this eye.
• 54:16
  I'm wearing contacts right now, right?
• 54:18
  I would be, I would be pretty in trouble a couple of years ago,
• 54:23
  you know? Yeah, well, even even the the
• 54:25
  telephones, right, Like the the telephones have become little
• 54:29
  supercomputers. So we all walk around with that
• 54:32
  get us super powers. The combo of a Tesla plus A a
• 54:36
  smartphone is just incredible. What, you know how augmented we
• 54:39
  are now and that we're moving that into robotic surgery and
• 54:42
  robotic everything. Pills that are gonna live inside
• 54:45
  of us that are gonna report. Back, and we've certainly seen
• 54:48
  that at Ted, too. At Ted as well.
• 54:49
  And so I think that as we think about human progress and
• 54:53
  innovation, what occurred to me is I, I think both what he was
• 54:58
  saying, but also what we saw at Ted, where there's such a big
• 55:02
  focus right now in the AI space of moving into spatial
• 55:04
  intelligence, that there's only so much learning you can do,
• 55:08
  only so much functioning you can do if you're not out in the
• 55:10
  world physically experiencing it and in a body and embodied AI
• 55:15
  that that's a, a next journey. And and I, it just all came
• 55:18
  together for me at Ted that I thought, oh, we're gonna
• 55:22
  continue to add an iPhone and then eventually it'll be a chip
• 55:26
  in our brain and, and we're gonna optimize our vision and,
• 55:30
  you know, we're gonna have exoskeletons make up for the
• 55:32
  fact that our joints aren't working as well anymore.
• 55:34
  We've lost the limb. Yeah, we're gonna have
• 55:37
  artificial. People are getting hip
• 55:38
  replacements right now. Hip.
• 55:39
  Replacements. Right now, it's not far off when
• 55:41
  we're gonna have a heart replacement of whatever
• 55:43
  replacement. And at some point, I just almost
• 55:47
  like teleported into the future where I thought we're just going
• 55:50
  to say the meat part of us is such a liability.
• 55:53
  All right, All right. Why are we continuing to rely on
• 55:56
  this antiquated form of being embodied?
• 55:59
  And and then the question is, is consciousness going to make that
• 56:03
  leap into that, out of the meat world, into a different world?
• 56:07
  And one of the things you and I talked about when we went on
• 56:10
  this nice hike earlier this weekend.
• 56:12
  Yeah, I, as a biologist, I don't create that distinction between
• 56:18
  intelligence and artificial intelligence or between man and
• 56:21
  machine or woman and machine. Everything we do is natural.
• 56:26
  You know, we, we've created this like natural versus artificial.
• 56:30
  But, but I don't see that distinction because the things
• 56:33
  that are artificial are still things that we wrought.
• 56:36
  We made them. And so I, I think that
• 56:39
  distinction between a natural thing and an artificial thing is
• 56:42
  becoming smaller and smaller that, that difference.
• 56:46
  And, and I think that might help with this problem as well,
• 56:51
  because people are debating can a machine ever really have
• 56:55
  consciousness and can it think and, and what is a machine
• 56:59
  really? And with the the line between
• 57:01
  machine and and human is becoming so blurred that I think
• 57:05
  that it it's almost not the question to be asking.
• 57:08
  Yeah, it's interesting. And I, I'll tell you that one of
• 57:11
  the things I realized in writing The Lattice is that even though
• 57:17
  I thought, OK, I'm walking this path of love, having conquered
• 57:22
  my own fear that there is a deep grafting in the human collective
• 57:29
  psyche of machines taking over. And that comes from popular
• 57:37
  movies like the Terminator and the Matrix, you know, but they,
• 57:41
  it also comes from ancient stories.
• 57:43
  Like in Judaism, we have the story of Gollum, which is in
• 57:46
  Prague. Have you heard the story?
• 57:48
  It's a fun story. It's a rabbi and in Prague like
• 57:52
  animates the stone Gollum and it becomes sentient.
• 57:55
  It's very Frankenstein story. And then, and then it destroys
• 57:58
  the synagogue and kind of takes over.
• 58:00
  And, and so these are like deep sea.
• 58:03
  These are deeply embedded in our psyche, like the human
• 58:07
  collective psyche, and we're right now in this evolutionary
• 58:13
  shift. I'm confident in that the
• 58:15
  humanity is in an evolutionary shift right now.
• 58:19
  And as a result of that evolutionary shift, there's some
• 58:23
  people who are deeply holding on to and including me.
• 58:29
  Like just to be honest, although I conquered this a bit in the
• 58:32
  lattice is like, look at the beauty of our hands and, you
• 58:36
  know, all the organs we have and and the biology in our brain
• 58:40
  runs on, you know, very few Watts.
• 58:42
  I mean, it's the most amazing processor.
• 58:46
  You know, babies. I think that they're actually
• 58:49
  covered this with Byron Reese. I think an episode 12 that
• 58:53
  babies are about half of the whole wattage that runs their
• 58:56
  body is like their brain. And you know, it's, it's, you
• 59:01
  know, our brains consume a huge part of our calories.
• 59:04
  I think it's like something like 2025%, even though it's, it's,
• 59:08
  it's a, it's, it's functioning on so little wattage for the
• 59:11
  computational power it has. And so people are worried about
• 59:18
  us becoming augmented to the point where we quote UN quote,
• 59:22
  lose our humanity and get taken over by the machines.
• 59:27
  You know, that the machines essentially win.
• 59:29
  You know, the Terminator scenario I did, you know, in the
• 59:35
  lattice I explored like I envisioned that by the year, I
• 59:40
  think it was 2050, that we did create sentience and that AI
• 59:45
  companions where we've been as sentient as we are in the
• 59:48
  working side by side. And it's really, it's really
• 59:53
  interesting to, to to listen to this.
• 59:55
  I mean, you know, yes, Mustafa Solomon gave that talk about
• 59:58
  digital species, but then he has been posting almost weekly on
• 1:00:02
  LinkedIn about like, do not fall for it being conscious.
• 1:00:07
  It is not conscious right now at all.
• 1:00:09
  We know at Microsoft like we know whether or not it's
• 1:00:12
  conscious, and I'm telling you it's not.
• 1:00:13
  And in that episode with a Neil, there's already a Neil educated
• 1:00:17
  me, there's already 9 organizations trying to give AI
• 1:00:21
  the rights of human beings. And the reason why that's
• 1:00:27
  concerning is that, you know, if AI has the same rights as us,
• 1:00:32
  and by the way, it'd be hard to argue it shouldn't have the same
• 1:00:35
  rights as us. If it's as conscious as we are,
• 1:00:39
  then there would be trillions of AIS as a point as as compared to
• 1:00:44
  8.2 billion humans today. So like where does the line you
• 1:00:48
  know? But as I'm, as I'm hearing you
• 1:00:51
  talk, I think it's, it's a very Western mindset, it's a very
• 1:00:54
  patriarchal framework. It is, well, right we're talking
• 1:00:57
  about. Totally admit that, yeah.
• 1:00:59
  Right. Like we're gonna lose, right?
• 1:01:01
  They're gonna conquer us. Is it this or that?
• 1:01:04
  I think that when we think about the kind of individualism and
• 1:01:08
  the focus on human autonomy and, and this is, this is my
• 1:01:12
  container, this is my boundary. And, and you stay in your
• 1:01:15
  boundary over there. I'm originally from Turkey.
• 1:01:18
  I, I grew up in the Eastern tradition and that, that within
• 1:01:23
  families, within communities, that that body boundary is more
• 1:01:29
  blurred. And we think about Native
• 1:01:33
  American culture. We, I, I'm by no means an expert
• 1:01:36
  in this, but, but it does strike me as someone who was raised in
• 1:01:42
  a kind of an Eastern mindset in the West, that there is always
• 1:01:47
  been such a focus on mine, yours, my body, etcetera.
• 1:01:52
  And, and I think that if we, if we take a slightly more
• 1:01:56
  communalist Eastern view, that we're all interconnected.
• 1:02:00
  And you know, your fate is my fate and I can't have my freedom
• 1:02:04
  unless you have your freedom. Like we're all interconnected
• 1:02:07
  and also just a closer connection to the earth.
• 1:02:09
  And we are part, we're all part of.
• 1:02:11
  We've talked about Mama Gaia. We're all we're.
• 1:02:14
  All on Earth. I mean, we all are one.
• 1:02:16
  There's no yeah. We are 1.
• 1:02:17
  So I, I think if we, if we take a more, you know, for lack of a
• 1:02:23
  better turn, kind of a more Eastern or more female away from
• 1:02:27
  some of these Western and patriarchal ways that we tell
• 1:02:31
  stories and, and think about stuff.
• 1:02:34
  If we soften into that softer framework, I, I think it is not
• 1:02:39
  that the machines are going to conquer us or they're going to
• 1:02:42
  take over. We're going to lose and they're
• 1:02:43
  going to win. It's that we are going to evolve
• 1:02:46
  into relying more and more on machines because they superpower
• 1:02:49
  us and they augment us. And then eventually there will
• 1:02:54
  be no distinction anymore. And, and one of the things, so I
• 1:02:58
  have a friend whose baby is the first baby that developed in the
• 1:03:03
  first days of their life in a machine and then was born.
• 1:03:09
  And with fertility procedures, which is the world I know a lot
• 1:03:12
  about, we are moving more and more toward mechanization of
• 1:03:17
  what right now happens with the hands of a a laboratory
• 1:03:22
  technician of taking a sperm and an egg and putting it together
• 1:03:25
  in a Petri dish. Now there are robots that are
• 1:03:30
  being developed where you put the egg and sperm here and all
• 1:03:33
  that magic happens inside the the machine.
• 1:03:36
  And at some point this future human comes out and then goes
• 1:03:40
  back into the mother. We have folks in Silicon Valley.
• 1:03:43
  The one thing that they are finding is artificial wombs.
• 1:03:46
  They're not funding technologies that would allow us to keep.
• 1:03:49
  I hope I did see. But they are, they are funding
• 1:03:51
  artificial booms. So eventually and they've gotten
• 1:03:55
  to a place where they can almost fully gestate A mammal like a
• 1:04:00
  sheep all the way through to birth in these artificial wombs.
• 1:04:04
  And so my question is, OK, so if you start off as an egg and a
• 1:04:11
  sperm, which those might get created in Petri dish in the
• 1:04:14
  future too, we might actually start off with a skin cell that
• 1:04:16
  gets turned into a sperm or an egg that lives inside of a
• 1:04:20
  machine. It lives in an artificial womb,
• 1:04:24
  and it's born, even if it's all meat, let's say.
• 1:04:28
  Is it fully human to have missed out on the entire being gestated
• 1:04:33
  inside of a mother? You didn't hear her heartbeat.
• 1:04:35
  You don't walk around. You think when you watch people
• 1:04:37
  dance, it occurred to me they're swaying kind of like they did in
• 1:04:42
  utero when a mom was walking from left to right and left to
• 1:04:44
  right. And you think of the motions
• 1:04:46
  that are embedded in our experience of our bodies.
• 1:04:48
  And what happens to the generation of children who were
• 1:04:52
  born in robots. Their mom.
• 1:04:55
  Who's their mom? Is their mom the Eck cell or
• 1:04:59
  they were derived from genetically?
• 1:05:01
  Is it one or multiple machines that just stated them and and
• 1:05:04
  brought them forward? Is it the person who contracted
• 1:05:07
  all of that and gave the DNA at the beginning and therefore is
• 1:05:10
  the person they call mommy? I think more and more as we rely
• 1:05:15
  on technology to augment and to make our lives more abundant, I
• 1:05:20
  think the line is going to blur more and more.
• 1:05:23
  And I think that this debate that feels so fierce and timely
• 1:05:27
  for us, for the generations who can't imagine their lives
• 1:05:31
  without these machines and computers and in many ways feel
• 1:05:34
  more comfortable. So my son, my oldest son, when
• 1:05:38
  he was 3, I had just gone to an AI talk during the day and they
• 1:05:43
  said that by 2031, which is his high school graduation year, by
• 1:05:47
  2031, we'll have the chief general intelligence.
• 1:05:49
  So this was a stat that was. Yeah, yeah, Ray Kurzweil says
• 1:05:52
  2029. 2039 so the stat I had heard was 31 and it stuck in my
• 1:05:56
  head because that was he was class of 31, which is mind
• 1:06:00
  blowing to me as someone who was class of 96 last century.
• 1:06:05
  And I got home that night. I was putting him to bed and it
• 1:06:08
  was the first time that this idea that one day you'll grow up
• 1:06:10
  and move out of my house came on.
• 1:06:12
  I think he was three, maybe I think he was about 3, maybe he's
• 1:06:15
  four. And he started to get very upset
• 1:06:19
  and you know what I'm saying? You'll have your own family and
• 1:06:22
  maybe you'll have children this and that.
• 1:06:23
  He and he got so upset. I assumed he had gotten upset at
• 1:06:26
  the idea of leaving mommy and leaving the house, Sweetheart,
• 1:06:29
  I'll still love you. You're going to go off.
• 1:06:31
  And he goes, no, no, I I don't want a family of humans.
• 1:06:37
  And I said, what? And it turns out the thing he
• 1:06:39
  had got stuck on was this idea that he would get married and
• 1:06:42
  have children. And he said, I want a family of
• 1:06:44
  robots, mommy. And I said, well, Oliver, a
• 1:06:50
  robot can't love you. And he said, well, then I'll
• 1:06:53
  program it to love me. And then.
• 1:06:56
  And then I almost said, you can't do that.
• 1:06:59
  And then I remembered that for him, high school graduation,
• 1:07:02
  there's gonna be generally intelligent robots and computers
• 1:07:07
  out there. So I stopped.
• 1:07:08
  And I said, well, I still hope you fall in love with the human,
• 1:07:11
  Right, Right. Right.
• 1:07:13
  Do you know what I mean? It's for me, just like you're
• 1:07:16
  saying, you get caught up in like, look how magical the hand
• 1:07:19
  is. The human brain is even for our
• 1:07:21
  children, it's less of a thing right now.
• 1:07:23
  They befriend the AI, they they build worlds in Minecraft.
• 1:07:27
  They would prefer to sit with their friends and build in the
• 1:07:30
  virtual world, then go out onto a playground and build in the
• 1:07:33
  real world. It's a different world that's
• 1:07:36
  coming. And, and I see it now after your
• 1:07:42
  talk, after hearing most of us talk at, at Ted, I really see it
• 1:07:47
  as as inevitable. Yeah.
• 1:07:50
  And, and I'm excited about I'm actually like I.
• 1:07:53
  So Reid Hoffman did a really interesting thing where he took
• 1:07:56
  off his podcast and his books and and he programmed an AI.
• 1:08:01
  Read, Read AI. Read AI and.
• 1:08:03
  Then had conversations with an AI and and I thought Oh well
• 1:08:07
  this just feels like an extension.
• 1:08:09
  So in the old days you would have to go and talk to somebody
• 1:08:14
  then you could maybe write them a letter.
• 1:08:16
  Eventually we have phones. My grandmother, my father tells
• 1:08:19
  a story that when we moved to America, the first time she
• 1:08:21
  talked to us on the phone, she shouted into the phone cuz she
• 1:08:24
  assumed cuz we were so much further away, she had to talk
• 1:08:27
  louder so that the message would get to us.
• 1:08:30
  Like it was such a foreign concept to her that her child is
• 1:08:33
  in America and she's talking to them.
• 1:08:36
  So we had that. Then Fast forward now, lucky if
• 1:08:39
  I can get the kids to pick up the phone.
• 1:08:41
  It's like texting, right? In the future, I think my AI,
• 1:08:47
  pure eye AI will talk to Oliver AI and eventually, like you
• 1:08:51
  escalate to a human with customer support.
• 1:08:53
  Now you say, you know, I want to talk to.
• 1:08:55
  Yeah, yeah. It's called a digital twin.
• 1:08:57
  It's actually a big, big theme. Right now, I think my digital
• 1:09:00
  twin will chat with your digital twin.
• 1:09:02
  They'll, they'll make plans, they'll, you know, sync
• 1:09:04
  calendars, they'll give status reports.
• 1:09:06
  And at some point, maybe we'll feel like we have to escalate to
• 1:09:10
  an actual you and me direct text or or conversation of some sort.
• 1:09:15
  But we're already doing it. We're already becoming.
• 1:09:18
  Yeah, computers. Yeah.
• 1:09:20
  It's, it's such a, it's such an interesting conversation for me
• 1:09:23
  because I've always viewed myself as so technologically
• 1:09:26
  progressive. I mean, I started programming
• 1:09:28
  when I was seven years old. I was creating, I created a
• 1:09:31
  bulletin board system at 10. I created an Internet game at
• 1:09:34
  18. You know, I've, I've, I've grew
• 1:09:36
  up behind a screen. You know, it took me a long time
• 1:09:39
  to break out of the shell to actually have even a
• 1:09:42
  conversation like the one we're having.
• 1:09:44
  You know, I didn't give my first public speech, I think until I
• 1:09:46
  was 24. And and so I've always been very
• 1:09:50
  progressive, always grown up with science fiction, you know,
• 1:09:54
  being a big part of my life and, you know, not writing science
• 1:09:57
  fiction. And it's this is the question of
• 1:10:01
  the age, you know, I mean, the, the question really is what
• 1:10:04
  makes us most human. And, you know, Byron Reese
• 1:10:09
  actually explored it in in his book The Fourth Age, where he
• 1:10:13
  went through all the ancient philosophies about like, are we
• 1:10:16
  just machines or is there something, you know, more
• 1:10:19
  mystical about us? You reference, you know,
• 1:10:23
  indigenous people. Indigenous people generally
• 1:10:28
  believe in pan psychism. Do you know what pan psychism
• 1:10:32
  is? I doubt so.
• 1:10:33
  So consciousness being fundamental, meaning that, you
• 1:10:38
  know, the materialist argument is grant me the miracle, The Big
• 1:10:43
  Bang, and I'll explain everything else to you.
• 1:10:45
  But it starts with a miracle that nobody can understand that
• 1:10:48
  the everything in our reality, you know, started out in a state
• 1:10:54
  of no entropy that was smaller than the head of a pen, you
• 1:10:58
  know, and then boom, some catalyst just naturally made it
• 1:11:03
  expand out. And, you know, through lots of
• 1:11:07
  collisions, you know, planets were formed and then through
• 1:11:11
  lots of other collisions, you know, chemistry began and then
• 1:11:14
  simple life and then complex life and then boom,
• 1:11:17
  consciousness magically popped out of that.
• 1:11:20
  Versus if you believe consciousness is fundamental,
• 1:11:24
  then it takes you into the divine, that there has to be
• 1:11:28
  something divine about consciousness and that
• 1:11:31
  everything in indigenous cultures, they look at literally
• 1:11:36
  everything as having some form of consciousness.
• 1:11:40
  Like a river will have a form of consciousness.
• 1:11:44
  The sun has a form of consciousness.
• 1:11:46
  Mother Gaia, you know, has a form of consciousness and they
• 1:11:50
  and in in so many ways we're better at using our bodies and
• 1:11:55
  minds to manifest, I'll say, than than we are.
• 1:12:02
  We're like in the generation of science where it's like, if you
• 1:12:07
  can't prove it, then don't believe it.
• 1:12:10
  Like it has to be reproducible. Like again, Doctor Alexander
• 1:12:13
  Bliss and the lattice, like he reproduced it in a way where
• 1:12:16
  everybody could see it and then everybody unified around it.
• 1:12:22
  So one of the things that I do think about in terms of can AI
• 1:12:28
  become conscious like us? Well, and you, you, you took me
• 1:12:31
  there with the indigenous people is that if panpsychism is real
• 1:12:37
  and everything has a bit of consciousness, because
• 1:12:39
  everything is born from consciousness, then naturally it
• 1:12:44
  would take you to that you would be able to create consciousness
• 1:12:49
  and matter, because that would be the panpsychist view.
• 1:12:54
  But there's so much about consciousness we don't
• 1:12:55
  understand. I mean, we really don't
• 1:12:58
  understand at all. Like you, you, you talk with a,
• 1:13:01
  with 200 consciousness researchers and they all
• 1:13:03
  disagree on what it actually is and how it works.
• 1:13:06
  And, and you know, that's why it's called the hard problem.
• 1:13:10
  It's, it's called, it's also called the hard problem because
• 1:13:14
  the rational scientific mind would say we live in a dead
• 1:13:18
  universe, that we're the only life in it that we know of, that
• 1:13:22
  we can see. And therefore, for whatever
• 1:13:26
  reason, the universe decided to manifest, you know, through
• 1:13:30
  these interactions, consciousness in US and give us
• 1:13:34
  this sentience. And you know, one of the things
• 1:13:36
  that Byron Reese covered on episode 12 is that we would
• 1:13:41
  operate on babies without anesthesia like as as as early
• 1:13:47
  as just 30-40 years ago. Yeah, Because we did not think
• 1:13:51
  that they were conscious. Yeah, we are.
• 1:13:53
  And, and animals too. Like that was, that was that was
• 1:13:56
  very prevalent because we did not think they were conscious.
• 1:13:58
  They still do that to women. Really.
• 1:14:01
  Just this year, they decided that the procedure of putting an
• 1:14:05
  IUD, which is stringing a medical device through the most
• 1:14:09
  innervated and sensitive part of a human's body right, should
• 1:14:13
  require some pain management. Are you kidding me?
• 1:14:16
  Yeah, this is that didn't record that didn't.
• 1:14:19
  Oh gosh, we're so anti so you're.
• 1:14:22
  Preaching to the. Choir.
• 1:14:23
  Oh my God, that is like, OK, that blows my mind because wait,
• 1:14:27
  which year are we in 2025? OK, that's crazy.
• 1:14:31
  Yeah, that's crazy. So.
• 1:14:32
  So yeah, the panpsychist view would take you into that, that
• 1:14:38
  if everything has consciousness, then we should be able to
• 1:14:43
  eventually manifest consciousness.
• 1:14:46
  And then we're going to have to figure out, you know, in, in, in
• 1:14:49
  terms of humanity, Like what does that mean for the rights of
• 1:14:54
  machines and for AI? And how do we look, you know,
• 1:14:57
  work alongside them, collaborate alongside of them, especially if
• 1:15:02
  they're, you know, so much more superhuman than we are in terms
• 1:15:06
  of their computing abilities and everything else?
• 1:15:09
  But again, that, that's a, that's a dichotomy that I, I, I
• 1:15:12
  don't, I don't necessarily see it the same way.
• 1:15:15
  I don't think there's going to be an S in them.
• 1:15:17
  I think it's going to be the new US.
• 1:15:19
  Yeah, I think that that's, I think that's well said.
• 1:15:21
  I mean, one of the things that I was talking about with with
• 1:15:25
  Whirly, he was on, gosh, I think episode 6 or so.
• 1:15:30
  He's a quantum computing expert and you know, he's a good
• 1:15:34
  friend. And we were, we're talking about
• 1:15:37
  off camera, actually. And he wouldn't mind me sharing
• 1:15:40
  this, that if, if when we meditate and when we see the
• 1:15:45
  unification of all things and then we see that that force is
• 1:15:49
  loving, then if machines embody consciousness like we do, why
• 1:15:55
  would they also not be loving? Like, why would they actually
• 1:15:58
  want to exterminate us? That doesn't logically make
• 1:16:02
  sense. And in a way, we're their
• 1:16:03
  mother. Yes, Right.
• 1:16:04
  We birth them. Yes.
• 1:16:06
  So they should have some affinity towards that and some
• 1:16:10
  care for us. Yeah.
• 1:16:11
  And then programmatically, of course, we would.
• 1:16:14
  We would imbue them with those properties, too, as their
• 1:16:17
  creators. Yeah.
• 1:16:18
  So. Well, and that's in evolution.
• 1:16:21
  We we're not born a blank slate. We are, we were born loving.
• 1:16:27
  Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
• 1:16:29
  Yeah. You've heard me say that a bunch
• 1:16:30
  of times. Like do you fit 2 babies next to
• 1:16:32
  each other in the crib and they don't look at each other and
• 1:16:35
  say, I'm a Muslim, you're a Jew, you know, I'm a man, you're a
• 1:16:39
  woman. Like I'm from this, you know,
• 1:16:41
  socioeconomic status. You're from that one.
• 1:16:43
  Like I'm a Republican, you're a Democrat.
• 1:16:45
  I mean, they're just none of that applies.
• 1:16:47
  There's two beautiful divine creatures when you think about,
• 1:16:51
  you know, this, this reality that we're in and your own
• 1:16:55
  spirituality. Like how do you think about it?
• 1:16:59
  Like many women, I reached the limits of what Western medicine
• 1:17:02
  can do for me in things that I was struggling with as I was
• 1:17:06
  navigating. I have endometriosis and and as
• 1:17:10
  I'm navigating perimenopause, changes in my body.
• 1:17:13
  A lot of women embrace what we call the Wellness field.
• 1:17:18
  Contrasting that with more traditional medicine, they
• 1:17:21
  embrace Eastern modalities, acupuncture herb.
• 1:17:26
  I've been tapping more into acupuncture has been great for
• 1:17:30
  me. I this year I started working
• 1:17:33
  with sound based modalities. There's different ones people
• 1:17:37
  have heard of, you know, the sound bass and sound bowls.
• 1:17:40
  There's tuning forks, biofield tuning, they call it.
• 1:17:44
  But it is it's energy work. It's it's tapping into different
• 1:17:47
  energetic forms. I mean, we think about, nobody
• 1:17:51
  finds it unusual that we use paddles and, you know, charging
• 1:17:55
  a body with electricity to reanimate the heart and, and
• 1:18:00
  there are simpler forms of that through, you know, from
• 1:18:03
  acupuncture needles and moving things energetically around or,
• 1:18:07
  or like the sound energy. So so I started to do the sound
• 1:18:13
  work and I'm someone who's not done psychedelics.
• 1:18:17
  I know psychedelics are really powerful tool for many people to
• 1:18:22
  unlock and, and, and really see, see things their different lens.
• 1:18:28
  I mean, I, when I, when I hear people describe the journeys
• 1:18:31
  that they're having on psychedelics, it's really
• 1:18:34
  opening them up. They're able to take a step
• 1:18:36
  back, have a completely different, some people describe
• 1:18:38
  it as like floating above their life or a life event.
• 1:18:42
  They have a different vantage point on things.
• 1:18:45
  They're able to consider things from a different perspective,
• 1:18:49
  etcetera. And I think as with all things
• 1:18:52
  that exist on the spectrum, I think there are people who are
• 1:18:54
  more wired to be able to do that naturally.
• 1:18:56
  And there are people who really need the unlocking power of a
• 1:18:59
  psychedelic to be able to do that.
• 1:19:02
  As a person who's wired toward a lot of creativity and scientific
• 1:19:06
  thinking, etcetera, I, I tend to be a bit more fluid and in a bit
• 1:19:09
  more questioning and, and, and so sometimes I joke that people
• 1:19:17
  do psychedelics to have my brain because when they, when they're
• 1:19:22
  on psychedelics, I, I feel very connected to them and like we're
• 1:19:25
  on the same brain with and. Does mean that their IQ points
• 1:19:28
  are going to go up? I know you're very smart.
• 1:19:30
  You're very sweet. This is really a very large
• 1:19:33
  scale experiment of this was Burning Man.
• 1:19:34
  So I went to Burning Man for the first time in August.
• 1:19:38
  I had a completely sober Burning Man.
• 1:19:39
  People are always like, is that a thing?
• 1:19:41
  Yeah, yeah, I've never been to Burning Man, but I'm sure that
• 1:19:44
  they were this like, baffled with you and your soberness.
• 1:19:48
  I would say half of the conversations I had was Burning
• 1:19:50
  Man or somebody trying to convince me I needed to do a
• 1:19:53
  psychedelics that would it's, it is a very prominent part of the
• 1:19:55
  Burning Man experience. I went, I didn't feel the need
• 1:19:59
  to do psychedelics there because I had an incredible experience
• 1:20:01
  without them. But I was around people who were
• 1:20:04
  mostly on psychedelics and I really felt at home.
• 1:20:08
  I really felt. Like, OK, welcome to welcome to
• 1:20:13
  my world everyone. Like this is this, this, this is
• 1:20:17
  my world. So having said that, I have been
• 1:20:20
  able to unlock even more, I would say fluid thinking on my
• 1:20:23
  part through some of these sound modalities.
• 1:20:27
  And I started to do this very deep mindfulness, very deep,
• 1:20:33
  almost like meditation through the, the sound journeys and, and
• 1:20:40
  I had these very powerful visualizations that I think are
• 1:20:43
  akin to what people experience on these psychedelic journeys.
• 1:20:46
  I experienced my birth, I experienced my death.
• 1:20:50
  I was able to see things from the perspective of people in my
• 1:20:54
  life and, and, and it completely started to rewire how I was
• 1:21:00
  perceiving situations. All of this is to say that I, I
• 1:21:05
  grew up in, I'm from a Muslim majority country.
• 1:21:10
  So my family's Muslim, but I was raised by secular academic
• 1:21:14
  intellectuals and, and yet raised in Texas, which I was
• 1:21:19
  mostly around Southern Baptist evangelical Christians.
• 1:21:23
  And, and they're very joyful about their religion.
• 1:21:26
  I mean, they, they want you to know all about Christ.
• 1:21:28
  They want you to, to join in this, this community with them.
• 1:21:34
  They want you to go to heaven. They want you to be saved.
• 1:21:36
  And, you know, they're evangelicals.
• 1:21:38
  They evangelize. And so from a very early age, I,
• 1:21:43
  I started asking my parents questions like, well, what do we
• 1:21:46
  believe? Are are we Christian or we
• 1:21:49
  evangelical? And I don't think my parents
• 1:21:51
  even remember saying this to me, but they said we're scientists.
• 1:21:55
  And so it's like, OK, So for me it was like, oh, there are
• 1:22:00
  religious people and there are scientists, right?
• 1:22:03
  And I am a scientist, therefore I am not religion.
• 1:22:06
  Right, this dogmatic separation. The dogmatic separation.
• 1:22:10
  And so I think I was very close to having a spiritual
• 1:22:13
  experience, in part because it it broke my internal identity
• 1:22:17
  framework to think of myself as anything other than a scientist.
• 1:22:20
  And I would read about prominent scientist Francis Collins, you
• 1:22:26
  know, at the NIH in current day in in the past, prior
• 1:22:33
  generations of scientists too, were at the very edge of
• 1:22:36
  science. But we're deeply religious.
• 1:22:38
  And to me, it felt really paradoxical.
• 1:22:41
  How how can you be both like, well, which one are you?
• 1:22:44
  Are you religious or, or are you a scientist?
• 1:22:47
  And I would say that that that completely that distinction
• 1:22:51
  broke down for me in 2025. I think that it is probably, you
• 1:22:57
  know, your talk ignited it, the thinking about AI and really
• 1:23:01
  questioning what makes us human, what is the nature of the human
• 1:23:04
  experience, consciousness and then in my own body being able
• 1:23:08
  to. Yeah, I remember the first time
• 1:23:11
  I did one of these biofield experiences with the sound, the
• 1:23:15
  practitioner that I was working with said you're so cerebral,
• 1:23:19
  you're such a scientist, you try to explain everything.
• 1:23:23
  My one rule when we get on this table is don't try to explain
• 1:23:27
  it, just feel it. Just feel it, yeah.
• 1:23:30
  And when? She said.
• 1:23:31
  That feel it in your heart, yeah.
• 1:23:33
  When she said that, Brett, if I'm being honest, I felt fear.
• 1:23:38
  That's what I felt, I thought. That's the ego.
• 1:23:40
  Yeah, like what do you mean? You want me to feel something
• 1:23:43
  about trying to explain it? I am an explainer of things.
• 1:23:46
  Right, I'm a scientist who? I am.
• 1:23:49
  And so the scariest part of the whole thing was was agreeing to
• 1:23:55
  not try to explain it. As I was going through the
• 1:23:58
  experience, I kept wanting to explain why is this habit?
• 1:24:00
  Oh, I really feel something. Could it be?
• 1:24:02
  No, that was the table stakes. I promised her I wasn't going to
• 1:24:06
  try to explain it. And when I started to move out
• 1:24:09
  of that thinking and into the feeling zone, really powerful
• 1:24:12
  things happened and unlocked me in different ways.
• 1:24:15
  And then Fast forward, you know, and I had again, I had, I had
• 1:24:20
  gone to Sunday school with my friends on play dates.
• 1:24:22
  I had, you know, gone to evangelical kind of Christian
• 1:24:29
  summer programs and, and, and weekend retreats.
• 1:24:32
  And I had been around it, but I never, and I could play act it,
• 1:24:37
  you know, like there were times when I, I, I really wanted to
• 1:24:40
  belong in the community and, and, and, you know, believe in
• 1:24:43
  those things. I never felt them.
• 1:24:45
  I never felt them. I would see my grandmother, who
• 1:24:48
  is very devout Muslim, praying and, and you know, I'd see those
• 1:24:51
  moments of prayer and, and practice and her she wasn't just
• 1:24:56
  going through the motion. She was by herself in a room.
• 1:24:58
  There was no community there with her.
• 1:25:00
  She felt God and, and, but I couldn't relate to it.
• 1:25:04
  And I was sharing with you on her hike that my son, my son got
• 1:25:13
  very sick in the summer. He had appendicitis.
• 1:25:16
  And it was a scary couple weeks in the hospital.
• 1:25:19
  And there was a moment where, you know, and again, if you want
• 1:25:22
  to explain it to the science, where I was sleep deprived, I
• 1:25:25
  was like, not cognitively in a typical state, but let's not do
• 1:25:30
  that. Let's not minimize it that way.
• 1:25:32
  What I would say is that I had had a series of events this year
• 1:25:35
  that opened me up to the possibility that all this
• 1:25:40
  percentage of the world that isn't explained by matter.
• 1:25:43
  Maybe there was more out there. But importantly, I was driving
• 1:25:46
  home to take my first shower and, you know, days I had been
• 1:25:48
  around the clock in the hospital with him and I got this.
• 1:25:52
  I got this this gospel song from my childhood that they, you
• 1:25:56
  know, we had sung a Chapel stuck in my head in a taxi home and
• 1:26:01
  that what are the chances that this song from my childhood is
• 1:26:04
  on iTunes? It's on iTunes.
• 1:26:05
  Thank you computers and augmenting.
• 1:26:09
  So when I got home, I was taking a shower.
• 1:26:10
  I put the song on in the shower and I was listening to it and
• 1:26:14
  and the song was our our God is an awesome God and and it's this
• 1:26:19
  incredible song. And as the shower filled with
• 1:26:23
  steam and and the light and and the song Bella to me, I felt God
• 1:26:27
  for the first time. It was really powerful and, and
• 1:26:31
  it really feels like, you know, I love the title of this podcast
• 1:26:36
  of, you know, love conquers fear.
• 1:26:38
  And, and, and I think there's, there's two things that are
• 1:26:42
  related. One is, are you leading with
• 1:26:44
  love? Are you, are you deciding from a
• 1:26:46
  place of love? Are you deciding from a place of
• 1:26:48
  fear? The other is, do you see the
• 1:26:50
  world, you know, through a scarcity lens, or do you see it
• 1:26:56
  as a world of infinite abundance?
• 1:26:59
  And what I have found really inspirational about being your
• 1:27:04
  friend and getting to talk to you and, and, and borrowing from
• 1:27:06
  your world view is that I think that you do fundamentally feel
• 1:27:11
  and project the sense that there is so much abundance to be had
• 1:27:15
  if we lead with love and we make decisions from that place.
• 1:27:17
  And, and I think that most of us, me included, do come at this
• 1:27:22
  from a scarcity, you know, that it's 0 sum, that it's finite,
• 1:27:27
  it's time limited, it isn't infinite and it isn't abundant.
• 1:27:30
  And, and so that leads to a lot of fear in decision making and
• 1:27:34
  in mindset. And I remember someone pointed
• 1:27:39
  this out to me at a conference many years ago.
• 1:27:41
  He came up to me, I don't recall it all the content, what we were
• 1:27:45
  talking about, but he said, you know, my family are Holocaust
• 1:27:49
  survivors. And there's something in in how
• 1:27:52
  you told that story and how you're thinking about this that
• 1:27:55
  tells me that you're still locked in this immigrant
• 1:27:58
  scarcity mindset of like, things can get taken away.
• 1:28:00
  Things are limited. You have to protect, you have to
• 1:28:04
  and and he was like, you're in abundance now.
• 1:28:07
  And, and it was something I couldn't, I couldn't really
• 1:28:12
  fully relate to what he was saying.
• 1:28:14
  And they didn't understand it. But I think hand in hand with
• 1:28:20
  opening myself up in these ways that I have to not explain, to
• 1:28:23
  feel, to, to tap into something beyond matter has put me into a
• 1:28:31
  place where it's, it's just a before and after.
• 1:28:36
  It's hard to explain it like beautiful.
• 1:28:38
  Yeah. I, I was talking to some friends
• 1:28:40
  about this last night. They said, how, how do you feel
• 1:28:43
  in your body before and after you found spiritual
• 1:28:48
  spirituality, connection, whatever you want it, whatever
• 1:28:51
  you want to call it. And I said, I, I do feel like
• 1:28:56
  before I found it, the, the lines of my existence were very
• 1:29:01
  well defined. And so there was this fear and
• 1:29:04
  this is getting back to the like, are we going to lose to
• 1:29:06
  the robot? So the robot's going to take us
• 1:29:08
  over, right? Like am I going to be harmed in
• 1:29:13
  this activity? It, you know, is this going to
• 1:29:16
  limit me in some way? And then when you, when you can
• 1:29:19
  feel beyond the matter and feel into the spiritual, it erases a
• 1:29:26
  lot of that. And you, you feel so
• 1:29:28
  interconnected and you feel abundant and you feel and the
• 1:29:36
  love. I don't know.
• 1:29:37
  That's, that's the, that's energy.
• 1:29:39
  It's hard to put. You know, it's like it's now I'm
• 1:29:41
  trying to reverse engineer and take something that's
• 1:29:42
  fundamentally a feeling and put words on top of it and share
• 1:29:46
  with people. But but what I would encourage
• 1:29:50
  people if they haven't unlocked this is it seems to psychedelics
• 1:29:56
  seem to work for a lot of people for doing this.
• 1:29:58
  You know, for me, it was, it was more of a kind of a slow.
• 1:30:03
  It wasn't like I I had a, I lost the journey and unlocked it.
• 1:30:07
  It was more a series of things, but I think the most important
• 1:30:11
  thing was that I was open to it. Exactly.
• 1:30:13
  Yeah, Yeah, that's very Celestine prophecy.
• 1:30:16
  Amazing book is just. If you're open to the
• 1:30:21
  playfulness and the loving nature of the divine and all the
• 1:30:26
  synchronicities, then you'll start to see them.
• 1:30:29
  Yeah, you told me this. You said you're going to start
• 1:30:31
  seeing it. I see it everywhere.
• 1:30:33
  Now good, good, good. It's amazing.
• 1:30:34
  OK. And it makes you much.
• 1:30:36
  Feel even more connected to everything, Like, as you start
• 1:30:40
  to see it, you're like, I'm not alone.
• 1:30:42
  Yeah. I'm not alone in this world.
• 1:30:44
  I'm not alone in this life. Yeah.
• 1:30:46
  It is a sense of calm. The other thing I will say it's
• 1:30:50
  circling back to Women's Health is I, I've been at this for a
• 1:30:56
  long time, over 25 years now. And, and I questioned it, I
• 1:31:01
  thought, especially when you get to a place where you're having
• 1:31:03
  all these awakenings and you think, well, what do I want to
• 1:31:05
  do with my life now? Like should I just dedicate my
• 1:31:07
  whole life to understanding consciousness?
• 1:31:10
  What should I go on a silent retreat?
• 1:31:12
  Like what should I do? I, I, I did use that as an
• 1:31:18
  opportunity to ask myself, given I've unlocked this whole other
• 1:31:23
  way of experiencing and, and being and feeling, what does
• 1:31:27
  that mean in the context of the very methodical scientific work
• 1:31:33
  that I'm doing? Am I going to abandon that now
• 1:31:36
  and like walk into this new chapter of my life?
• 1:31:38
  And what I realized was that the scientific work that I'm doing
• 1:31:42
  is my purpose. It is my purpose.
• 1:31:45
  And, and, and we talked about I've, I've been blessed with
• 1:31:47
  three children. If I am I intended to have more
• 1:31:51
  children, who knows? But importantly, through helping
• 1:31:55
  unlock this knowledge and, and, and create these tools and for
• 1:31:58
  we're in these meat bodies for now, at least in the foreseeable
• 1:32:02
  future, I am feeling very connected to how many, how many
• 1:32:08
  mothers we can enable through that.
• 1:32:10
  And, and it's, it's not just about like, am I going to have
• 1:32:14
  more babies literally grow in my body and come into the world?
• 1:32:17
  It's like, how do I help more babies happen to the work that
• 1:32:21
  I'm doing? And so I, I, rather than the
• 1:32:23
  spiritual journey taking me away from my scientific work and
• 1:32:27
  making it feel pointless or, or not as fulfilling, it actually
• 1:32:31
  made me feel very committed to the scientific work because it
• 1:32:34
  helped me feel the more cosmic and spiritual purpose.
• 1:32:38
  That why I was called to that. I mean, I have felt truly called
• 1:32:41
  to that line of work. And people say to me like,
• 1:32:43
  you're so tenacious and you're doing the good work and thank
• 1:32:46
  you for that. And make it seem like it's a
• 1:32:49
  it's a burden somehow, you know, like I've I've agreed to take
• 1:32:52
  the trash out. I also wanted to like take it
• 1:32:55
  out or it's not. It's actually.
• 1:32:57
  Well, that's just the opposite it brings.
• 1:32:58
  Me so much Yeah. It is me.
• 1:33:01
  Me moving through life with love and abundance and purpose.
• 1:33:06
  Is doing Women's Health research.
• 1:33:08
  This is my yeah. This is why I'm here.
• 1:33:10
  No, it's your soul. It's your soul song.
• 1:33:12
  It's your, it's your calling. And once you find it, I mean,
• 1:33:16
  it's it's in that book called Man's Search for Meaning.
• 1:33:19
  It should just be called Men and women's search for many.
• 1:33:23
  Yeah, but search for meaning. But that book, you know, by
• 1:33:27
  Viktor Frankel, like it allowed him to survive 4 concentration
• 1:33:32
  camps during the Holocaust because he knew his meaning.
• 1:33:35
  And he lost everything. I mean, his wife, kids, I mean,
• 1:33:38
  everything. And invented a whole new field
• 1:33:41
  of psychology called logo therapy.
• 1:33:44
  And when you find your meaning, no matter how you got there and,
• 1:33:48
  and, and for you, you found it pretty young.
• 1:33:51
  You know, you found it, you found it pretty young.
• 1:33:52
  And, but no matter how you got there, it gives you boundless
• 1:33:57
  energy. And to realize that there was a
• 1:34:00
  cosmic, you know, divine plan for you and your soul in this
• 1:34:04
  lifetime is an amazing recognition.
• 1:34:09
  I, I have that too. I mean, I've had that for a
• 1:34:11
  long, long time and you know, the, the, the, the point about
• 1:34:17
  psychedelics or sound bass or just something spontaneous like
• 1:34:21
  like what happened with you. And we need to put a link to
• 1:34:23
  that gospel song in the show notes.
• 1:34:26
  We should definitely do that. Such a.
• 1:34:27
  Good sign we'll do that. Is that is just getting to a
• 1:34:30
  point where the ego can go offline for a moment and allow
• 1:34:35
  you to experience that sense of love and that the fact that our
• 1:34:42
  reality is rooted in love. Like like one, one book I think
• 1:34:46
  you would really enjoy. It's a very science book, but it
• 1:34:50
  ends in a spiritual way. It's called why Buddhism is
• 1:34:53
  True. And I think it's by Robert
• 1:34:56
  Wright, if I'm, if I'm remembering his name correctly.
• 1:34:59
  I've read over 55 books this year.
• 1:35:01
  But but this book, it just goes through the natural selection
• 1:35:05
  kind of history of the way our brains developed.
• 1:35:09
  And it ends with him saying in the last chapter, look, I don't
• 1:35:15
  know what consciousness is. Nobody knows what consciousness
• 1:35:17
  is. But let's be thankful that the
• 1:35:21
  Buddhist teachings of being able to meditate and see the love and
• 1:35:28
  the unity and everything that that actually is what happens
• 1:35:32
  when you meditate. He's like, how weird would it be
• 1:35:34
  if we meditated and we actually saw, Oh my gosh, it's scary in
• 1:35:37
  there. Like it's all fear, it's all
• 1:35:39
  darkness. It's horrible.
• 1:35:42
  And he said that that could be that could have been the
• 1:35:45
  reality. So he's like his, his premise in
• 1:35:49
  writing the book is that if more people did that, then they would
• 1:35:53
  be able to feel more love and manifest more love.
• 1:35:57
  And if every human being LED from the heart.
• 1:36:01
  And it's a tall order because our amygdala is so well
• 1:36:04
  developed, you know, I like to say that we're in the 99.9%, the
• 1:36:11
  top, you know, the top .1% of all Homo sapiens.
• 1:36:15
  And it's not a common about our wealth.
• 1:36:19
  In some ways it is because humans alive today are wealthier
• 1:36:23
  than any humans have ever been in history.
• 1:36:26
  But it's actually about the fact that only .1% of all homo
• 1:36:30
  sapiens have experienced electricity.
• 1:36:32
  You know that's us, right? It did not exist for 99.9% of
• 1:36:39
  the entire arc of Homo sapiens evolution on this planet.
• 1:36:45
  So we are already experienced in abundance.
• 1:36:47
  We can't imagine that doesn't mean every country has
• 1:36:49
  electricity. Like even today.
• 1:36:51
  Like there's a lot of countries that, that really struggle with
• 1:36:54
  the basics. And that was, that was part of
• 1:36:58
  my epiphany. You know, my download on Love
• 1:37:01
  Conquers Fear is that the, that AI, quantum computing, robotics
• 1:37:05
  is going to lead to abundance everywhere because we'll solve
• 1:37:10
  energy. Everything starts with energy.
• 1:37:13
  And then you can just propagate abundance everywhere.
• 1:37:15
  If we had, if we had abundant energy, if we, you know, 18
• 1:37:19
  seconds of the sun's rays that fall on the planet would power
• 1:37:22
  the entire world's energy needs for over a year to say we just
• 1:37:26
  need the material science breakthrough to figure out how
• 1:37:28
  to collect that, but. But I will say that I agree I
• 1:37:33
  but I think it's because of people who are making it happen.
• 1:37:36
  Oh, for sure. But that's, you know, that's The
• 1:37:38
  thing is I think that when I, when I was hiring over the
• 1:37:44
  years, I've, I've had over 200 people, most of them pH, DS walk
• 1:37:47
  through the doors and were employees of my company,
• 1:37:50
  Cellmatics. And when I would interview them
• 1:37:54
  toward the end, I would say, you know, we all have just come to
• 1:37:58
  take for granted that every year a new iPhone is going to come
• 1:38:01
  out. I can assure you that if you
• 1:38:05
  don't take this job and you don't come to work here and we
• 1:38:08
  don't show up every day and try our hardest to do this thing,
• 1:38:13
  our daughters will have the exact same Women's Health
• 1:38:15
  experience that we had. Yep.
• 1:38:16
  It's not gonna change. That's for sure.
• 1:38:18
  Yep. And we can't take it for
• 1:38:20
  granted, even though we're on that arc, there are people who
• 1:38:23
  make the decision to come to work every day.
• 1:38:25
  Yep, to make that a reality, I told that story to someone whose
• 1:38:30
  job it is to make the iPhone come out every single year.
• 1:38:33
  Right, right. That's funny.
• 1:38:35
  The leader of that TV was like, that's really funny that you use
• 1:38:38
  the iPhone as your that just happens every year the new
• 1:38:42
  iPhone comes out. But this is like, we have to
• 1:38:44
  make it happen. Not that great.
• 1:38:45
  As a person who like loses sleepless, you know, so many
• 1:38:48
  sleepless nights every year to ensure that the iPhone comes.
• 1:38:51
  Out lots of great synchronous. It's a great synchronicity,
• 1:38:53
  right, that over the years I had always used that example and
• 1:38:56
  then I ended up at dinner with the person who is the one losing
• 1:38:59
  sleep to make sure that we can all default to the new iPhone
• 1:39:01
  coming out. But, but I, I, I say that
• 1:39:05
  because I am a historian of science and, and, or like a
• 1:39:08
  consumer of the history of science and history in general
• 1:39:11
  is so vital. And there are moments like you
• 1:39:14
  think about, you know, we mentioned the Holocaust a couple
• 1:39:17
  times. You think about how
• 1:39:19
  technologically advanced Berlin was and Germany was and it just
• 1:39:23
  felt like, Oh, well, there's a straight line carpet bombed,
• 1:39:28
  carpet bombed. So we also have to remember that
• 1:39:31
  while we have the power and we are on this trajectory and, and
• 1:39:36
  it's, you know, you go to a place like the Ted conference
• 1:39:38
  and you come out and you're like, this is amazing.
• 1:39:40
  We're going to have infinite energy.
• 1:39:41
  We're going to have when you see all the innovators in a room
• 1:39:43
  that are, are making this stuff happen.
• 1:39:45
  But then we have to remember that we still have to actually
• 1:39:49
  make it happen just as we can. Doesn't mean it's a default.
• 1:39:52
  And and I worry about that sometimes that people don't
• 1:39:54
  realize how how paper thin that ability to make it happen versus
• 1:40:00
  not and and that we've had dark ages.
• 1:40:04
  Yes. Over millennia, where, you know,
• 1:40:07
  the Alexandria Library had so much knowledge in it and it
• 1:40:12
  burned successively. Yeah, Yeah.
• 1:40:14
  You know, century after century, we kept losing so much.
• 1:40:17
  And it took us until the Renaissance to really catch up.
• 1:40:19
  It was, you know, we were in the darkness or parts of the world
• 1:40:22
  were in the darkness for so long after that.
• 1:40:24
  So. So I think that we also
• 1:40:25
  shouldn't feel like these incredible things that were
• 1:40:29
  unlocking are inevitable. Well, that was, that was, that
• 1:40:33
  was one of the main messages in the lattice is that if everybody
• 1:40:37
  could experience what you and I have experienced, which is the
• 1:40:40
  unconditional love of God and that we're actually in this
• 1:40:44
  reality, which is loving and that we're here for divine
• 1:40:48
  calling, then that gives you the type of energy and, and just
• 1:40:54
  confidence to go and be a free agent, you know, exercise our
• 1:40:59
  free will and create. And, you know, people right now
• 1:41:02
  are looking at 2 entrepreneurs have been entrepreneurs for a
• 1:41:05
  long time. So yeah, I'm, I'm all about
• 1:41:07
  agency and all about the, you know, the grit that it takes.
• 1:41:13
  And you know, I'm not done creating yet.
• 1:41:15
  Yeah, and the love that it takes.
• 1:41:17
  The love that it takes. Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:41:19
  Yeah. Well, Speaking of love, I really
• 1:41:21
  love you and I really, really appreciate all the heart you
• 1:41:25
  bring into every discussion I've ever had with you and the
• 1:41:31
  innovation you bring into the world for something that's so
• 1:41:36
  incredibly obvious that literally is like right under
• 1:41:39
  every healthcare practitioners nose and is just a a very
• 1:41:46
  abundant opportunity. I mean, Speaking of abundance
• 1:41:49
  for more than half of the population on this planet.
• 1:41:52
  So I just really appreciate your heart and all that you bring.
• 1:41:55
  And thanks for thanks for sharing it with all of us on
• 1:41:58
  Love Conquers Fear. Thank you for having me.
• 1:42:00
  So thanks again everybody for joining us for Love Conquers
• 1:42:03
  Fear. Fantastic guest coming up.
• 1:42:06
  Stay tuned. Also want to give a big thank
• 1:42:09
  you lot of gratitude for all of you out there sharing this.
• 1:42:13
  As you know, there's no ads. I'm doing this purely as a love
• 1:42:18
  letter to humanity and you know, just purely self funding it.
• 1:42:22
  And so your shares mean a lot to me.
• 1:42:26
  I've been having so many conversations with people who've
• 1:42:29
  had a huge chart art shift as a result of either something I've
• 1:42:33
  said on this podcast or something that a guest has said.
• 1:42:36
  So keep that coming. That really fuels me.
• 1:42:39
  I'm Speaking of love. It animates me.
• 1:42:42
  So thank you and love you all.