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PARANORMAL SOLVES NURSE'S MURDER? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. In all my years of prosecuting, yes,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: I was approached by psychics that told me they could
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: help with the case. But all I could think about
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  Speaker 1: was how can I bring this in as evidence? It's
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: just that black and white. Actually, if I bring in
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: this evidence, will it harm my case? I want to
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: talk to you about a brand new book called Goodbye Hello,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Processing Grief and Understanding Death through the Paranormal. Now, how
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: does that relate to crime stories and criminal investigations? I'm
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being
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  Speaker 1: with us here, Voxination and series XM one eleven. First
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: of all, I want you to take a listen to
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  Speaker 1: Adam Barry at the Waverley Hills Sanatorium on Kindred Spirits.
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  Speaker 2: We're trying to lure John out of hiding. If we succeed,
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  Speaker 2: we'll capture an image of.
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  Speaker 3: Him on this SLS camera.
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  Speaker 4: Do you have a name?
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  Speaker 5: How old are you?
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  Speaker 4: He's eating them. Our reason for being here is to
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  Speaker 4: help Tina.
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  Speaker 3: What about it? Manic?
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  Speaker 2: We've been nothing but nice and courteous to you this
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  Speaker 2: whole time.
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  Speaker 3: Right, thank you, You're welcome.
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  Speaker 4: Do you need help? This is Amy there's a lot
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  Speaker 4: of voices.
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  Speaker 3: I'm having trouble keeping up and more. I found a
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  Speaker 3: story in a local paper about a man named John,
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  Speaker 3: and it was about how his wife was murdered. She
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  Speaker 3: was murdered while John was here as a patient, and
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  Speaker 3: because his seven children did not have someone to look
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  Speaker 3: after them, they were given to the state. And that's
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  Speaker 3: a terrible story.
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  Speaker 2: He turned off my equipment, so I'm not gonna use
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  Speaker 2: it just like, okay, Okay, he wants me to use it,
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  Speaker 2: so I'm not gonna use it. Okay.
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  Speaker 3: So my question to you is, are you or do
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  Speaker 3: you know who John Mitchell is?
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  Speaker 6: Okay?
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  Speaker 1: You are hearing Adam Barry and others at a sanatorium
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  Speaker 1: called the Waverly House.
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  Speaker 6: I just want you to hear one more tiny bit
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  Speaker 6: of it. Listen.
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  Speaker 3: Do you feel like your life was taken from you
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  Speaker 3: a sudden this breeze, all of a sudden gout of nowhere.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, like only in those hallways, Like it's moving back there.
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  Speaker 5: I don't know.
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  Speaker 4: It sounds like footsteps.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, John, If that's you, we want nothing but the
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  Speaker 3: best for you. We don't want you to be here.
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  Speaker 3: Oh my god, my bottom, my botom, my bottom.
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  Speaker 2: My Goda, my bottom aut me not by Where'd you
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  Speaker 2: see him?
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  Speaker 3: I saw santaa away.
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  Speaker 2: It was literally a person.
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  Speaker 1: Joining me an all star panel to make sense of
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  Speaker 1: what we are hearing. With me is Adam Barry, paranormal researcher,
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  Speaker 1: EP and star of Kindred Spirits on the Travel Channel
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  Speaker 1: and Discovery and author of Goodbye Hello, Processing Grief and
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  Speaker 1: Understanding Death through the Paranormal. You can find him at
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  Speaker 1: Adam Barrybooks dot com. His new book just released, Adam
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  Speaker 1: Barry Warning, You've got a lot of skeptics on the
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  Speaker 1: panel today.
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  Speaker 6: Right you understand that?
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  Speaker 5: Yeah?
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  Speaker 6: Okay.
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  Speaker 1: However, if it's real, then some people could be persuaded
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  Speaker 1: to bring it in front of a jury. Also with
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  Speaker 1: me Crime Online dot com investigative reporter Nicole Parton, renowned
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  Speaker 1: psychiatrists joining us out of the Atlantic jurisdiction doctor Angela
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  Speaker 1: Arnold and you can find her at Angela Arnold MD
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  Speaker 1: dot com.
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  Speaker 6: And high profile.
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  Speaker 1: Lawyer, former prosecutor who deals with the black and white
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  Speaker 1: of the evidentiary code, now defense attorney Darryl Cohen.
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  Speaker 6: Darryl, thank you for being with us. You can find
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  Speaker 6: him at Darryl B.
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  Speaker 1: Cohen co O h E. M. Darryl Cohen the first
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  Speaker 1: to you. Would you ever dream of introducing this type
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  Speaker 1: of evidence in court?
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  Speaker 5: Nancy? I guess the word never is very very important here.
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  Speaker 5: The answer is never. Having said that, if I have
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  Speaker 5: nothing else and I have to try this person, I
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  Speaker 5: reach for the stars, and maybe it's in the stars,
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  Speaker 5: because that's where it's coming from.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, Doctor Angie Arnold way in do you've dealt with
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  Speaker 1: thousands of patients in your psychiatric practice?
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  Speaker 6: Do any of them really believe in ghosts?
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  Speaker 7: That's really a tough one, Nancy. I've got to tell you.
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  Speaker 1: Let's say yes. No, Okay, Lightning Round. Do any of
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  Speaker 1: your patients believing ghosts?
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  Speaker 6: No, You've never had a.
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  Speaker 1: Patient believing ghosts. I find that really hard to believe.
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  Speaker 1: But Okay, Adam Barry with us, who has just written
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  Speaker 1: this book and the colepartin Crimeonline dot Com investigative reporter.
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  Speaker 6: I haven't gone to you.
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  Speaker 1: Guys yet, but I wanted to prepare you, Adam Barry,
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  Speaker 1: for what you're waiting into. And I'm almost through with
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  Speaker 1: your book. I can't wait to get to the end
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  Speaker 1: of it. A lot takes place regarding Waverly House, what
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  Speaker 1: is Waverley House?
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  Speaker 2: Waverly Hills is a sanatorium hospital tuberculosis hospital that was
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  Speaker 2: open for a long time in outside of Louisville, Kentucky.
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  Speaker 2: And it was a place where a lot of people
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  Speaker 2: died because the procedures that they were doing were very new.
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  Speaker 2: They were experimenting a lot. And it's said to be
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  Speaker 2: one of the most haunted places in America. Do you agree, oh,
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  Speaker 2: one hundred percent. Yeah, I've It was one of the
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  Speaker 2: first places I ever investigated.
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  Speaker 5: I've investigated there.
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  Speaker 2: Four other times, and I have had experiences. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: in that clip that you heard, we literally saw someone
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  Speaker 2: standing in front of us, you know, appearing out of
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  Speaker 2: nowhere and disappearing. I've seen, you know, things right there.
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  Speaker 6: Stop stop stop shop Adam.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, Are you sitting.
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  Speaker 2: Down, I'm definitely sitting down, Adam.
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  Speaker 6: You want us to believe that you have seen a ghost?
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  Speaker 2: You know, Here's the thing. I'm not in the business
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  Speaker 2: of making people believe in ghosts or not. I'm in
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  Speaker 2: the business of telling you what I know and what
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  Speaker 2: I well.
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  Speaker 1: If I don't believe in ghosts, why would I buy
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  Speaker 1: your book? If you can't convince me and tell me
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  Speaker 1: I mean, okay, let's start a let's starry. Ever, what
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  Speaker 1: is your background? Because you sound perfectly rational.
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  Speaker 2: I am.
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  Speaker 1: I'm not saying I do or don't believe. I'm a
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  Speaker 1: fact finder, So I am. Tell me your background.
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  Speaker 2: So I grew up in Muscle Shoals, Alabama. I'm born
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  Speaker 2: and raised in the South.
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  Speaker 6: Really, Now, where exactly.
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  Speaker 1: Is Muscle Shoals.
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  Speaker 2: Muscle Shols is in that corner between Tennessee and Mississippi.
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  Speaker 2: It was the recording capital of the South. And I was,
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  Speaker 2: you know, grew up surrounded by church, family and good food.
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  Speaker 6: You know what I'm saying, Yeah, I do.
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  Speaker 1: As a matter of fact. Now, where is that as
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  Speaker 1: it relates to Mobile?
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  Speaker 8: Uh?
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  Speaker 2: Directly nor like top of the state, in the corner
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  Speaker 2: directly opposite?
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  Speaker 1: Got you?
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  Speaker 6: Got you?
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  Speaker 1: Okay, you grew up in Muscle Shoals, Alabama. When do
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  Speaker 1: you believe you saw your first ghost?
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  Speaker 8: Uh?
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  Speaker 2: When I was when I was a kid. And that's
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  Speaker 2: and that's the funny part. So I've always been sort
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  Speaker 2: of a skeptic first always because my whole rationale is,
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  Speaker 2: let me try to explain how this can naturally occur,
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  Speaker 2: because nobody wants a ghost in their house.
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  Speaker 9: Point blank.
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  Speaker 2: So if I can explain how it can occur naturally
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  Speaker 2: with natural things that are explainable, then that's better. And
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  Speaker 2: So when I was a kid and I had my
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  Speaker 2: first experience, it was literally a ghost. I heard a
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  Speaker 2: dog in my room and we didn't have a dog,
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  Speaker 2: and I didn't see a dog, and it was playing
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  Speaker 2: in my bedroom. So thinking about that as an adult, Okay.
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  Speaker 1: Stop right there, stop right there, right there, Darryl Cohen
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  Speaker 1: is joining me. Darryl that was an incredible prosecutor with
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  Speaker 1: an incredible win record, has gone on to a civil
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  Speaker 1: practice and a criminal defense practice. And to do this
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  Speaker 1: usually trial lawyers, not always, but usually are very cut
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  Speaker 1: and dried. We know what can come into evidence. We
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  Speaker 1: know what we can try to get into evidence. When
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  Speaker 1: you speak to witnesses, Daryl Cohen, and you were judging them,
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  Speaker 1: you're judging their veracity, their truthfulness, how they'll do on
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  Speaker 1: the stand. Can I put this person on the stand
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  Speaker 1: and while they fold on the stand, where they lie
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  Speaker 1: on the stand, when they get nervous and vomit on
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  Speaker 1: the stand. When I'm looking for veracity, I look for
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  Speaker 1: a story rich in detail. Now, when he said I
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  Speaker 1: saw my first ghost when I was a little boy.
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  Speaker 1: I did not expect him to say it was dog
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  Speaker 1: and it was barking in my room. To me, that
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  Speaker 1: is a sort of a detail that is a rich
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  Speaker 1: detail that tends to indicate not necessarily truthfulness.
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  Speaker 5: Nancy, I completely agree with you. When I have a witness,
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  Speaker 5: whether I was a prosecutor or now a defense lawyer,
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  Speaker 5: I first want to hear their story. I watch their face,
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  Speaker 5: I look at their facial expressions, I look at their
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  Speaker 5: body language. And when I hear something that you just
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  Speaker 5: he just mentioned, oh my gosh, Absolutely, that is a
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  Speaker 5: detail that jury's like to hear, and it's an unusual detail,
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  Speaker 5: something that will resonate, that a potential juror or jury
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  Speaker 5: will listen to and pay attention to. Rather than what
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  Speaker 5: I call a PFA pick pro mayor. This is something
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  Speaker 5: oh my gosh, what did he testify to? Again? I
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  Speaker 5: need to hear that, and that's extremely important. I love
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  Speaker 5: it when a jurr resonates with what a witness is
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  Speaker 5: saying from the stand, testifying to under oath, saying I
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  Speaker 5: swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but
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  Speaker 5: the truth.
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  Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace Adam Bury. The question you
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  Speaker 1: said you heard a dog was the dog barking?
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  Speaker 2: The dog was scratching on the bathroom door, and then
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  Speaker 2: it would walk into my room. I could hear the
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  Speaker 2: dog tags, I could hear the nails on the floor,
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  Speaker 2: and then when it got to the foot of my bed.
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  Speaker 2: We had one of those knob and tube TVs that
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  Speaker 2: when you push the button in it would glow a
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  Speaker 2: little bit after it turned off, and every time it
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  Speaker 2: reached the TV, the TV would glow and then it
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  Speaker 2: would repeat. And it did this for at least five minutes,
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  Speaker 2: and I sat there watching it.
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  Speaker 1: I'm just trying to take in everything that you're saying. Okay, guys,
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  Speaker 1: you heard Adam Burry, author of a new book called
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  Speaker 1: Goodbye Hello, Processing Grief and Understanding Death through the pair
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  Speaker 1: of normal Adam Bury. According to you, are you able
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  Speaker 1: to see or hear or feel the ghost? Yeah, I
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  Speaker 1: get a way to put it when other people with
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  Speaker 1: you cannot.
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  Speaker 2: No. That is I am not a psychic, so I
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  Speaker 2: don't believe. I mean, I believe in psychics and some psychics,
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  Speaker 2: but I am not psychic, and so all of my
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  Speaker 2: experience are coming from things that I can rationally experience
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  Speaker 2: with other people in the space, and it's actually better
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  Speaker 2: when it's verified by somebody else because it's more likely
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  Speaker 2: you're not imagining it or making it up.
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  Speaker 1: Take a listen to Adam Barry and Amy Brunei and
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  Speaker 1: Haunted Farmhouse Kindrid Spirits listening.
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  Speaker 3: Wait a minute, something weird and black just went across
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  Speaker 3: the floor camera. What.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, I've honestly never seen anything like it.
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  Speaker 3: So this is upstairs in the master bedroom, right right
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  Speaker 3: in front, like it's crawling toward the fireplace.
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  Speaker 5: That's weird.
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  Speaker 4: It's so strange.
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  Speaker 1: So in that sound at a Barry where you steal
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  Speaker 1: at Waverley.
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  Speaker 2: No, So that is the Harrisville Farmhouse, known mostly as
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  Speaker 2: the Conjuring House from the Conjuring movies. And when people say, oh,
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  Speaker 2: you've been to the Conjuring House, it was terrifying, wasn't it.
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  Speaker 2: The answer is yes, slightly, because I was afraid of
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  Speaker 2: what could happen based on what Hollywood has told me
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  Speaker 2: that can happen. However, it wasn't like that at all.
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  Speaker 2: We did have activity, it was intense at times, but
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  Speaker 2: nobody got flown like thrown against the wall.
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  Speaker 6: What do you mean activity, I.
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  Speaker 2: Mean anything that you cannot explain supernatural or paranormal, something
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  Speaker 2: that is not natural, or something that is above the normal,
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  Speaker 2: such as Rantom Knox, footsteps happening in front of you, voice,
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  Speaker 2: disembodied voices like where a voice where a mouth should be,
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  Speaker 2: but nobody's standing there, things moving on their own, objects
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  Speaker 2: catching images on your camera when nobody's in the space,
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  Speaker 2: being touched, being scratched, being pushed, those kind of things.
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  Speaker 1: So do you believe, Adam Barry, that they supernatural can
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  Speaker 1: actually have physical contact with a person you said pushed.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe it can, and it's happened a number
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  Speaker 2: of times for sure.
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  Speaker 1: I want to circle back, So when you're a little boy,
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  Speaker 1: how old were you when you felt you perceived a
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  Speaker 1: dog in your aim?
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  Speaker 2: I was in the fourth grade. And the thing about
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  Speaker 2: that experience, when I look back on it as an adult,
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  Speaker 2: you know, things come to mind. Well, it was at night.
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  Speaker 2: Was I sleeping? Was I sleepwalking? Was I tried to
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  Speaker 2: rationalize why this thing was happening. But even in the
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  Speaker 2: fourth grade, I did the same thing. I remember pinching
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  Speaker 2: my cheek, hitting my face to make sure that I
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  Speaker 2: was awake, looking to see if my brother, who we
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  Speaker 2: shared a room, was awake, and he wasn't wanting to
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  Speaker 2: run to my parents, but I couldn't because the sound
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  Speaker 2: was coming through the doorway. And then at one point
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  Speaker 2: I had had enough and I grabbed the sheets and
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  Speaker 2: I yelled stop, and the sound completely quit. It just
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  Speaker 2: instantly stopped, and it stuck with me ever since.
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  Speaker 1: I believe it. Question, Adam, when was your next supernatural experience?
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  Speaker 1: That's fourth grade?
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  Speaker 2: So the next time I had a life changing experience
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  Speaker 2: was when I was old enough to know better. I
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  Speaker 2: was about twenty three years old.
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  Speaker 6: Okay, white, Why white? Why white? Right there?
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  Speaker 5: Yeah?
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  Speaker 1: Darryl Cohen and doctor Angela Arnold and Nicole part Crime
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Online dot Com and everyone jump on with questions. While
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: I've got Adam Barry, author of a brand new book
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: Goodbye Hello, Processing Grief and Understanding Death through the par
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  Speaker 1: of Normal.
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  Speaker 6: I'm guessing I'll let's explain this later.
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  Speaker 1: That the gist of the book is I can confirm
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  Speaker 1: there is a supernatural out there, which means there is
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  Speaker 1: life beyond death. That's what I'm my take on your
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: title is. But Daryl Cohen, my question to you is
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  Speaker 1: he has one episode in the fourth grade and the
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  Speaker 1: next one is not until his twenties.
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  Speaker 6: Again, if a witness.
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  Speaker 1: Told me that if someone was lying, I would expect
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: them to go Okay. Then the next year this happened,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: and then three months later this happened, I would expect
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  Speaker 1: a much more embellished story.
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  Speaker 5: Well, Nancy, it seems it seems real. Now. I am
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: a skeptic. I'm the first to tell you that, because
• 15:54
  Speaker 5: if no one else saw it, did it really happen?
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  Speaker 5: Is it in his mind? Is it something that he
• 15:59
  Speaker 5: is he picking from air? But the fact that it happens.
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  Speaker 1: Or wants to believe or wants to believe.
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  Speaker 5: Wants to believe because I bought the line.
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  Speaker 1: If you don't have a witness to it, it didn't happen.
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  Speaker 1: If you don't have scientific proof, In my world, it's not.
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  Speaker 5: Real, not unless there's something else to go with it,
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  Speaker 5: Not unless there's something tangible that can be seen, felt,
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  Speaker 5: or touched by someone else.
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  Speaker 1: Let me correct my statement. If there's not a witness
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  Speaker 1: and it cannot be supported by scientific evidence as we
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  Speaker 1: know it, I can't get it in to court. I'm
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: not saying it's real or not real. I can't get
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: it into court. And if I do manage somehow to
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: get it in, I will be discredited in front of.
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  Speaker 6: A jury, so that would be taking that.
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  Speaker 5: I do laugh that if what you'd laugh that I
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: just discredited, but humbled embarrassed.
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  Speaker 1: Now, according to what I know, Adam Barry, your family
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  Speaker 1: has observed supernatural activity as well. Is that correct?
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  Speaker 2: When I was growing up, my parents didn't really pay
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  Speaker 2: attention to it that much. My father was, you know,
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  Speaker 2: in his early thirties working a full time job, didn't
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  Speaker 2: have time for ghosts, and never really noticed anything peculiar
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  Speaker 2: except that the person that they rented the house from
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: told them that on it and gave them a few stories.
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  Speaker 2: My mother, on the other hand, had had small experiences,
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  Speaker 2: but again brushed it off until I started saying something
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  Speaker 2: about it, until I came to them describing things that
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: you know, a kid about the dogs specifically, and then
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: that's when she takes.
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  Speaker 6: What about your mom and the keys?
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  Speaker 2: So that not my mom? There was a there was
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  Speaker 2: a My mother's makeup would go missing in the house,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: and then it would show up in places that she
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: had not placed it, and they blamed the Gertrude Is,
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  Speaker 2: who the previous owners called the ghosts right. Things go
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  Speaker 2: missing sometimes and haunted houses and people don't know for since.
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  Speaker 2: We were on a case where this lady said she
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: couldn't find her keys, and it kept missing, kept missing,
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: and she said, can I just need my keys? I
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: have to go to work, and they fell through the
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: ceiling plan that was on high onto the floor out
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: of nowhere, and she picked them up and went to work.
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  Speaker 2: And it was one of the cases that we had
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: to work on.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: You said your next event, your supernatural event, according to you,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: was in your twenties.
• 18:22
  Speaker 6: What happened.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: I was in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, and I took a ghost tour.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: I was completely sober at this point, and meaning that
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: I didn't drink before the ghost tour. And it was
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: at twelve thirty and the gentleman was describing the Battle
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: of Gettysburg, which you know is something that we all
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: should remember. And he said, down in the field is
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: the most haunted place in Gettysburg. And I said, can
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: I go down there? And he said I would not
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: go on my own, and I was not him, so
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: I went because I wanted to see something was It
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: was this moment for me where make or break is
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: something's going to show to me, I'm gonna it's gonna happen.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: And so I went down by myself, and I know
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: what you're already thinking. Nobody else is with you, so
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: how can you prove it? I went down. I saw
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: what looked like large, misty anomalies like walking in the
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: trees that I could not explain. I heard gunfire, and
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: in the middle of all of that, I went back
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: and got someone else so that they could see it,
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: so that I could know that I wasn't, you know,
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: imagining it. And you know, we both had experiences and
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: it was as if a battle was being replayed in
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: front of me. You couldn't see anything, but you could
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: hear it, and it was wild, and it really pushed
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: me over the edge. Now this was before I would
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: try to debunk it, right Like I didn't wasn't thinking
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: about this at the time, but like, if if it
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: happen now, I would go in and look for speakers.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: I would go in to look for something that somebody's
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: trying to do to trick me, to see if it
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: is actually real or not.
• 19:57
  Speaker 6: It was that real to you one.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: Hundred per And what's crazy is we've taken I've taken
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: friends back there over the years to that same spot
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: which anybody can go to, and people have experienced similar things.
• 20:10
  Speaker 5: Uh.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: And so it's not just a one off, one off.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: Think it happens all the time.
• 20:14
  Speaker 5: It's Gettysburg.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Guys. How does paranormal activity relate to a veteran died
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: in the wool trial? Lawyer? How does it relate to
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: cases that we are working on? I want you to
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut seven.
• 20:33
  Speaker 9: I was listening to a news broadcast on a radio,
• 20:35
  Speaker 9: and the night before a girlfriend had called me on
• 20:38
  Speaker 9: the phone and asked me if I had heard about
• 20:40
  Speaker 9: a nurse who had been kidnapped and was missing in
• 20:43
  Speaker 9: our area, and I said no, I hadn't heard about it.
• 20:45
  Speaker 9: The following day at work, I listened to the radio
• 20:47
  Speaker 9: and they said that they have found a lady's vehicle
• 20:50
  Speaker 9: on a dead industreet and that they were making a
• 20:52
  Speaker 9: house to house search for her. And as soon as
• 20:55
  Speaker 9: they said house to house search, it was as if
• 20:57
  Speaker 9: I heard someone speaking to me says, she's not house.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: You are hearing the voice of Edda Smith, who I
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: personally interviewed.
• 21:08
  Speaker 6: Here she's speaking to Oprah. Listen.
• 21:10
  Speaker 9: And as soon as that thought registered. I saw exactly
• 21:12
  Speaker 9: where she was. It was like there was a picture
• 21:14
  Speaker 9: in front of me. I didn't know the name of
• 21:16
  Speaker 9: the street, but I knew the area. I knew how
• 21:19
  Speaker 9: to get there, and I just knew. Well, this was
• 21:21
  Speaker 9: about three o'clock in the afternoon. I was at work.
• 21:24
  Speaker 9: I get off work at three point thirty, and I'm
• 21:26
  Speaker 9: arguing with myself all the way home because when I
• 21:29
  Speaker 9: get to a certain intersection, I either turn right to
• 21:32
  Speaker 9: go home, or I can turn left and I'll be
• 21:33
  Speaker 9: right in front of the police department. Well, when I
• 21:35
  Speaker 9: got to that intersection, I said, let him think I'm nuts.
• 21:39
  Speaker 6: I have to stop and more.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: I talked to.
• 21:42
  Speaker 9: A homicide investigator, told him exactly the area. I said,
• 21:48
  Speaker 9: I knew that it's on the right hand side going
• 21:50
  Speaker 9: up this canyon road, and that there was a dirt
• 21:53
  Speaker 9: path going towards this person and with the hill behind her.
• 21:58
  Speaker 9: He said they had not check that area, that they would,
• 22:02
  Speaker 9: and I said, well, you know, I have a feeling
• 22:04
  Speaker 9: I will also inside. I wanted to be wrong, but
• 22:08
  Speaker 9: I also felt that if I didn't check, I'd never
• 22:10
  Speaker 9: know the truth. I didn't go with them. I went home.
• 22:13
  Speaker 9: I told my children why I was late coming home
• 22:16
  Speaker 9: and they wanted to.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Go with me.
• 22:18
  Speaker 6: I told them I was going.
• 22:19
  Speaker 9: I feel bad about that now because at the time
• 22:21
  Speaker 9: I wasn't thinking properly. I wouldn't have taken the children
• 22:24
  Speaker 9: out to look for someone. I took two children with me,
• 22:28
  Speaker 9: plus a niece who was twenty one at the time,
• 22:32
  Speaker 9: and you found the body.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Ultimately, Yeah, this is.
• 22:35
  Speaker 6: A woman, perfectly practical.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: I spoke to her and she was just as down
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: to earth as anybody you would ever meet.
• 22:47
  Speaker 6: Nicole Parton joining me.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, This woman, Eda Smith
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: has I can only call it a vision, and.
• 22:56
  Speaker 6: She sees she told me something white.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: As I recall out in a canyon area, the nurse
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: was wearing her white uniform, having just got off from work.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Nicole Parton when she tells police what she and her children,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: she takes her children out there have discovered.
• 23:18
  Speaker 6: What do they do?
• 23:19
  Speaker 7: Well, obviously the body is found, but now she's in
• 23:24
  Speaker 7: trouble because who would know this much detail about where
• 23:28
  Speaker 7: the body was unless you had something to do with
• 23:32
  Speaker 7: the murder. So they arrest this poor lady, thinking that
• 23:37
  Speaker 7: she had something to do with the crime.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: You're absolutely right, Nicole Parton. Take a listen to our
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: cut eleven.
• 23:42
  Speaker 9: Well, they said I knew too much about it not
• 23:44
  Speaker 9: to have been involved, because I had described in detail
• 23:48
  Speaker 9: where she was up this canyon road on the side,
• 23:51
  Speaker 9: on the right side, with a dirt path going to
• 23:54
  Speaker 9: her and a hill behind her. I said I had
• 23:57
  Speaker 9: to have been there to have known that.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: The questioning of miss Eda Smith went on and on.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Listen to cut twelve.
• 24:06
  Speaker 8: It went on for hours. It went on till ten thirty,
• 24:10
  Speaker 8: maybe at night. I don't think they're believing me. I
• 24:12
  Speaker 8: kept telling them the same thing. But this one officer,
• 24:15
  Speaker 8: he became really belligerent through a chair and raised his
• 24:18
  Speaker 8: voice to intimidate me. What you think I'm involved in this?
• 24:21
  Speaker 8: I was capable of this. My husband would have been
• 24:23
  Speaker 8: dead a long time ago. I'll take a light detective test.
• 24:26
  Speaker 8: I'll prove to you I don't know anything about this
• 24:28
  Speaker 8: other than what I've told you.
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: They take her up on the offer.
• 24:31
  Speaker 8: They said, you fail. That went all conversation was over.
• 24:34
  Speaker 8: They transported me to the Van Eys jail and I
• 24:37
  Speaker 8: was booked and put in a cell.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: You're hearing curious true heroes, but that's not all that
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: happened to miss at a smith take us an hour thirteen.
• 24:47
  Speaker 8: I am strip searched, I am cavity searched. I try
• 24:51
  Speaker 8: to do the right thing, and I end up in jail.
• 24:52
  Speaker 10: She went out on a limb to try and find someone,
• 24:55
  Speaker 10: although in an unconventional way, and she was successful, and
• 24:58
  Speaker 10: for that she was literally brutalized for four days.
• 25:02
  Speaker 8: I got dysentery and lost twelve pounds and seventy two hours.
• 25:06
  Speaker 10: There was no probable cause for her to be arrested
• 25:08
  Speaker 10: simply because she found the body in an unusual way,
• 25:11
  Speaker 10: and arresting her for that for murder. I'm glad the
• 25:13
  Speaker 10: jury agreed with us and the judge agree that having
• 25:15
  Speaker 10: a psychic phenomenon is not probable cause to arrest.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Someone, Isn't it true? Nicole parton crime online dot Com.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: She turned around and sued the police department, and.
• 25:25
  Speaker 7: One she did absolutely because she in fact had nothing
• 25:29
  Speaker 7: to do with the crime, nothing at all, and she
• 25:32
  Speaker 7: had been falsely accused and mistreated in this horrific way.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: And what really happened is, as she told me, is
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: that the nurse victim got off of work from a
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: late shift and was at a red light, and a
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: group of guys pulled up beside her and started heckling her,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: and they decided that they would kidnap and rape her,
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: and then they killed her and dubbed her body out
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: in that canyon area. Her body would have clearly over
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: time disintegrated, decomposed. The case may never have been solved
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: if not for the vision miss Eta.
• 26:15
  Speaker 6: Told me that she had.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: And there's really no other way to explain it. Now,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: would I bring it into evidence? I don't know that
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: I would. I don't know what I would do in
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: that situation. I'd have to think long and hard about it,
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: because isn't it true?
• 26:35
  Speaker 6: Darryl Cohen? You bring in one fact.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: That the juries the jurors reject, and that can cast
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: doubt on your entire case, and your whole case could go,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: as I like to say, legal term, right down the crapper.
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: Oh absolutely, Nancy, if everybody is focused on one thing
• 26:54
  Speaker 5: and one thing only, like the.
• 26:56
  Speaker 6: Glove, the glove, oh Jaja, the one glove.
• 27:01
  Speaker 5: It didn't say well that there was more to it,
• 27:03
  Speaker 5: but that was the Johnny Cochrane antice that worked. But
• 27:07
  Speaker 5: that's another story for another trial. But absolutely, you bring
• 27:11
  Speaker 5: in something picked from air, out of the blue didn't exist.
• 27:15
  Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, are you kidding me? All that we
• 27:17
  Speaker 5: previously heard is not true.
• 27:19
  Speaker 6: Yeah, light the glove. Everybody focused on that.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: If I were to introduce mss Eda, who I found
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: to be very credible, the jury could focus on that
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: instead of all the other evidence.
• 27:29
  Speaker 5: Daryl Cohen taking away we're focusing on everything. All of
• 27:34
  Speaker 5: a sudden, something from the far left our right shows up,
• 27:38
  Speaker 5: and it's unusual, unique, and we're going to focus on that,
• 27:41
  Speaker 5: and we're going to forget everything else that took place
• 27:44
  Speaker 5: because they took away our staring, our ability to be
• 27:49
  Speaker 5: completely precise. And this is something that we have to
• 27:52
  Speaker 5: consider now because it's different. It's not what it was.
• 27:56
  Speaker 5: Are you kidding me? Are you really serious?
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: But just because you can't introduce it into evidence does
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: not mean it's not real.
• 28:04
  Speaker 6: Take a list an hour cut.
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: To something is running.
• 28:11
  Speaker 7: Down my back like.
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: Yes, like a fall, like pet down.
• 28:18
  Speaker 5: My back.
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: Like gently? Yeah, so what Roger was describing?
• 28:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah, she just do this to my back right, let
• 28:32
  Speaker 5: me know that she was there. That was.
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: Crazy.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace, Adam Barry is with us
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: termal researcher, executive producer, star of Kindred's Spirits on the
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Travel Channel and Discovery. He's got a brand new book, Goodbye, Hello,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Processing Grief and Understanding Death through the Paranormal, just released,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Adam Barry. Please don't take it in a Let me
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: just say detegrating way.
• 29:26
  Speaker 6: I'm not saying I don't believe or do believe.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: I'm arguing with Darryl Cohen about the practicality of introducing
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: paranormal activity of any sort, including clairvoyance in at trial.
• 29:41
  Speaker 6: And miss Ada was one.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: We would do multiple shows when I was guest hosting
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: for Larry King on Psychic Detectives because Larry absolutely did
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: not believe in psychics in any way and he did
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: not want to do the show. So I'm, you know,
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: working at Court TV at I'll do it. Whatever it is,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: I'll do it. So I had never even considered supernatural
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: activity or psidekicks in any way until then, and we
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: would do entire programs for I would walk off sy
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: going what just happened. I can't make sense of it,
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: I can't explain it. And that's where you come in, Adam, Mary,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: you applied to get on with ghost hunters.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Why I wanted to travel the country and search for
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: the afterlife. I wanted to see if it was real.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: I wanted to have my own experience. I wanted to
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: see it for myself. I didn't want someone to tell
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: me the ghosts were real or not real. I wanted
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: to make up my own mind. And that is why
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: I started to do what I did, and about introducing
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: it to evidence, like I honestly, I don't think you
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: can introduce paranormal like things that I captured, like on
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: the video or on audio. I think that would be
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: very hard to introduce into court because you know, everything
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: that we do is theory, right, it hasn't been proven
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: one hundred percent, even psychics.
• 31:05
  Speaker 5: It's hard.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, that story is crazy, that she found this body.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: That's an insane story to me. And it was like
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: literally a modern day witch hunt from the police department.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: They took her, they arrested her. They because they could
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: not exactly, they could not grasp it, they could not
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: understand it. And you know, there are things that are
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: that happen in this world that we don't have to understand.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: For instance, Amy and I were investigating an old Masonic
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: temple and we got evidence from a spirit that said
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: I was left down here, that their body was left
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: in the basement. And I said, where in the front
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: part of the basement, in the middle part of the basement?
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: Are in the back? And it says the back, And
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: so what did we do. We called in a cadaver
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: dog to search the basement and lo and behold, the
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: dog landed on one specific spot in the back of
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: the basement, didn't go anywhere else. So then we called
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: in a ground penetrating radar. The guy said, yep, there's
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: an anomaly under here. So then we called the State
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: Police of Massa Matthewsett State Police. They immediately said it
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: was a crime scene. We all had our IDs taken.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: They were interviewing all of us because lo and behold,
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: They're like, what are you Why is this cadaverdog hitting
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: on human remains? They bring in the state cadaverdog who
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: hits on the same spot, and then they bring in
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: a forensic team to start digging. Now, the remains that
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: they found were very, very old. They were they were
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: not of any interest to them because it was so old,
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: and they started getting water as they dug deeper. But
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: they took it so seriously because it was real and
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: it was true, and we.
• 32:37
  Speaker 6: Had no idea.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: They said, the remain that they said that there is
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: something down here, but we've gone so far that it's
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: just not feasible.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: You know, it's not here, and say they said, if
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: the owner wants to continue to dig, they should call
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: in the local archaeology team from the college and they
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: can do further work. But it was real and we
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: were told that.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: Adam. Let me ask you, queues you wanted to have
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: your own experiences, what would you say is the most
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: compelling experience you've ever had that convinces you that there
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: is a supernatural, that there is life after death.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: That's a very hard question.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: Oh. I feel the same way when people say, what's
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: your favorite case, like one of martyr or rape or
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: child will as station is somehow a favorite? You know, no,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: but just give me an example.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, here's the thing. I think. It's a
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: culmination of things. It's not just one thing, because one
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: thing doesn't make the truth. One thing isn't convincing, but
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: a number of things are convincing. Like I've I have
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: seen apparitions, I have talked there was a lady that
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: I talked to, physically talk to as if she were
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: a real person, and standing in front of me. And
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: I was with a group of people around, and I'm
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: talking to this woman and I turned my back and
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: then she's gone and she disappeared. Nobody else sat her.
• 33:59
  Speaker 6: Can I ask you what she was saying?
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we were at the Mount Washington Hotel in New Hampshire,
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: and she wanted to know what I was doing and
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: why I was up in this space with this group
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: of people. And she was wearing red sweatpants, a gray
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: sweatshirt and holding a dirty coke bottle. And I thought
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: she was personally I thought she was a party crasher.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: I thought she was really weird looking and something seemed
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: very off about her and I couldn't explain it. But
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: I was trying to be very nice and the second
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: I like a human. Yeah, she looked just like you
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: and me. And what's funny is people say, well, how's
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: that possible? And I said, how many people live in
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: New York City and are on the subway and see
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: that weird guy at the end, dressed in like seventies clothes,
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: acting a fool and they think he's just someone who's
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: like deranged or has a mental problem. I was like,
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: how do you know that that person isn't a ghost?
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: Did anybody talk to him? Didn't they go over to
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: him and touch him?
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, Adam, Adam, Now look, you do know that what
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: you said might sound crazy to some people. Yeah, but
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: I don't I know enough AUVI to know you are
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: not crazy. You believe this has happened, right, you have
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: just published this incredible book. My question to you is,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: what is generally speaking, what is the most common message
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: that these entities are trying to send? What do they want?
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: Most often those that have passed on they're still here,
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: want help or recognition or communication. They want the same
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: human interaction that they had in their living life. But
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: they don't get it because they're hard to see and
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: they're hard to hear.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: And why are they still here and not in either
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: hell or heaven?
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: Right, So, there's many different reasons. Some stay behind to
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: look after their legacy, Some stay behind to look after
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: their family. Some stay behind because they don't know they're dead.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Some stay behind, you know, because they refuse to go,
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: whether they whether they you know, maybe they maybe they
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: were a terrible person in his life and they think
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: that hell awaits them and for some reason, they're not going.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: Now that it doesn't mean, you know, it doesn't mean
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: that that's the case. But what we find is that
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: these spirits need something, or want something, or have unfinished business.
• 36:26
  Speaker 6: Adam Barry Why the book? Why the book?
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: I wanted to write a book. There wasn't just a
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: ghost book. I wanted to write something that could help
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: everyone better understand our own grief and mortality through the
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: only lens that I know it, and that's the paranormal.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: You don't have to believe in ghosts. You don't have
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: to believe me, But this book maybe can give somebody
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: a different option if they're stuck in their sadness, or
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: if they want a different thought or feeling about the afterlife.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: It may give them something else to ponder.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: You mean you I can comfort grieving people by convincing
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: them through these experiences, your experiences, that there is an afterlife, right.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: And it's not even about convincing, it's just saying, hey, look,
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: these stories are real to me. I've been doing this
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: for a very long time and they mean a lot
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: to me. Here's my story, take take, take with it
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: what you will, and if it helps you, great, and
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: I think the consensus so far is it does help.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: And I've been messaged by people who have gotten the
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: books who don't believe in ghost and they're like, you
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: know that religion chapter.
• 37:31
  Speaker 5: I feel you.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: I grew up Southern Baptists, and and I understand what
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: you're saying about, you know, uh, the spiritual body of
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: of of our religion, and I get it, and I
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: think I think it's a universal concept.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: Well, I've got to tell you something, Adam Barry. If
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: this were coming from anybody else, I would chick it
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: right out the door. But I know that there are
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: so many things that we as humans can never understand.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: We just don't have the capacity to do that. This
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: new book, goodbye, Hello, Processing Grief and Understanding Death through
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: the Paranormal. Adam, I would absolutely consider putting you in
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: front of my jury.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: You know what break a leg with this book, and
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: I hope and do believe that it can help many
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: many people that are grieving. And I want to thank
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: you for being with us, Adam Berry, and I expect
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: that I'll watch it just climb straight up the charts.
• 38:36
  Speaker 6: Thank you, Adam Berry.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Goodbye, hello,