Latest / Stuff You Should Know / Selects: Where Did Trick-Or-Treating Come From?

Transcript

Selects: Where Did Trick-Or-Treating Come From? · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, everybody. For this week's select, I've chosen our twenty
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: nineteen episode on trick or Treating. It's a really in
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: depth look at trigger treating and it's got a lot
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: of surprising stuff inside, Like it turns out that if
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: you don't set abandoned buildings on fire on Halloween, then
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: you've been trick or treating all wrong all this time.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: But don't worry. We're releasing this just in time for
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: you to learn the ropes this Halloween. Happy and extremely
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: safe Halloween, everybody.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: there's Charles v Chuck, Brian over there, there's Jerry, And
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: this is stuff you should know that right before Halloween.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Addition about.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: Feel like a little kid every Alloween.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty excited about it.
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, do you get trick or treaters? No?
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Not really, no kind of life hashtag, et cetera.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I've told my story before, but I'll just
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: briefly summarize again that my house is after a big
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: curve in the road, and people seem to just stop
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: at that curve in the road.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Well, they don't want to come up on old man
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Bryant's house. No, you know, the old dead oak tree
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: with the big hole in it that yeah Boo Radley
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: hides figures in is kind of off putting. Is right
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: on your property.
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: And I think in my neighborhood too.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: They close they literally close off, the cops close off
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: two blocks.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: It's just this big square of streets and.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: That's the official sanctioned no stress area where the parents
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: all just walk around and get drunk and all the
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: kids just run around and don't to worry about cars.
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: Right, So.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Everyone in my neighborhood has congregated there and you're outside
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: of them, outside the zone. Yeah, which I kind of miss,
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: Like I like trick or treaters coming to my house.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: I guess I could maybe try, and well I could
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: move a few houses in which I'm not going to do.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: We could casually move the the roadblocks a little further
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: back to include your house.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Well, they're actual police cars with police officers. I can't
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: move them, give them some but I could put signs
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: that like, you know this way for the best yet
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: and then you like only two more houses.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Right, or like leave a trail of candy because I remember.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: When I first moved to Atlanta, we rented a house
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: that got a lot of trick or treaters and I
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: loved it.
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: Man, I scared the heck out of those kids.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Oh really, yeah, it was a lot of fun, Like
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: I really got that was my first big adult giving
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: out candy night, like the first time I've ever been
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: able to do that, because you didn't have kids yet,
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: so we weren't out of trick or treating. And uh yeah,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: I made a really a punt to music out, like
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: the Psycho theme and scary John Carpenter stuff.
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: Sure, I really enjoyed it.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Did you like do anything to overtly scare them?
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: Yes, I wore a I was dressed up as a
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: very scary person.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: Huh. And I would jump out and scare them over
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: and over and over.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Did you really jump out? Good for you, Chuck, or.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: I would stand in the like Emily would be giving
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: out candy, and I would just be in the darkened house,
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: like eight feet behind her, just standing there motionless.
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: That's always a nice attack.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Nice, But the point is I sort of feel like
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: we're missing out, Like we certainly enjoy taking our daughter out,
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: but I really wish we had kids that came by.
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I wish you did too, too bad.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a stupid house right there near the main road,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: so close yet so far away, so far away, and
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: that's your forever house too. Huh Yeah no, trigger treats
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: ever again for you.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: And walked in there.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: But what we could do is, you know, we could
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: go to a friend's house and that they jump on
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: their coattails.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: You can't sit on their couch. You have to take
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: your shoes off in their house. You can't be comfortable.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: We've long talked to me and my friend Eddie and Allison.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: You know the I'm about. They have a good backyard.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: It's about doing like a haunted trail one year that
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: like if you come trick or treating, you got to
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: go through.
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: The trail first.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: It sounds like a lot of work.
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: It is, and it would be fun, no, I mean for.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: The kids who have to go through the trail kind
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: of earn right, you got to earn that free candy.
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: Earn that Reesa's pieces.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: So we just hit upon like fifteen different themes in
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: this episode. If you'll if you'll agree, I agree, yes,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: So we're talking about trick or treating here, and if
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: you look at the thing on its face, just the
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: words trick or treat, there seems to be some sort
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: of option here. You can do one or the other.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: There used to be give me a treat or you
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: get a trick, basically was the equation.
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they should just change the name now to just
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: treat night.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: Treat night, right exactly. We aren't one hundred you sent
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: sure on where trigger treating came from, but what we
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: do know is that it was originated in America in
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: the twentieth century, and that there was this really like
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: brief Golden age where it lived up to its name
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: trick or treat. There was a there was an offer
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: to not get pranked or tricked, and if you didn't
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: take the people up on the offer, the kids up
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: on the offer by giving them candy, you got pranked.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: That was the equation. It was in the name. Everybody
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: knew the score. And then it slowly kind of moved
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: over to what we understand today, where the police set
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: up roadblocks and everything is.
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: Safe these kids these days, and it's just.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Kinda just like you said, just the treat side of
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: the equation.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was, of course kidding but we'll get to it.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: There are people that really do decry this new generation
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: of children who just expect handouts and that it leads
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: to the idea of the welfare state, right, and all
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: this other garbage that I have no patience for sure,
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: because it's just a fun thing for kids. Yeah, do
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: you think they should be earning the stuff?
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: No?
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: No, No, I don't feel that way.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: I do feel well, I think it'll come through loud
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: and clear as we do the episode.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: Right, Well, we should jump back a little bit to
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: the origins of Halloween. We've gone over this before an
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: episode's past, but we all know it originally started as
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: a pagan harvest or not just one, but pagan harvest
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: festivals in general among the Celts over in the UK. Yes,
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: and that evolved into Halloween, but it had nothing to
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: do with trick or treating at the time.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: No, it wasn't wrong. Again, trick or treating is a
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: one hundred percent American invention, that's right. And so with
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: Halloween in particular, you've got all these different components for
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: the modern Halloween or for trick or treating. Yes, you
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: have going from house to house, you have getting two
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: said house and asking for a treat, basically sanctioned begging,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: got your costume, costume, dressing up, being outside, kind of
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: parading around. All of these things find their origin in
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: the Celtic and I think specifically Gaelic harvest festivals that
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: introduced the dark half of the year. That's right, And
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: in particular there was Sowyn, which forever I've always said
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: sam Hayne, because that's how it's spelled.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: Now, you said Salen right when we did our have
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: a wee an episode, didn't you? Probably? Yeah?
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: By the way, speaking of sown or sam Hayne, you
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: realized that I went to New York and saw the
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Misfits on Saturday.
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, how was that?
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: I mean it, it was great, colossally amazing. This is
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: the original Misfits, right, the original Misfits. Glenn Danzig, Jerry
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: Only Sure, Doyle, Wolfgang von Frankenstein. Yeah, who actually specifically
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: invited us to this listener right, yes, to this this show.
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: And it was that's amazing.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Knock your socks off?
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: Didn't the Damned play as well?
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: The Damned opened, and then Rancid and then the Misfits
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: just tore the roof off the sucker.
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: I saw when I saw you were going.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: I looked up some YouTube clips of this tour and
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: it looked pretty amazing.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: It was amazing and I think Glenn Danzig said that
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: was their last one ever. Oh really, and so we
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: got to see it. Wow, yeah, you me and I
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: had a great time.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: Amazing.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: So big, big thanks to Doyle Wolfgang von Frankenstein for
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: the invite.
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: The stage set up looked great, it was.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: It was just a really cool show and they played
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: almost everything.
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just a really good show.
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: That's fantastic. So anyway back to Sowyn, Yeah, so I
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: mean that's a perfect time to mention that show. Though
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: it all worked out, it did.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: Hallow's Eve was the night considered when the veil between
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: the living and the dead was the shortest, and so
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: that's when this that's when Halloween formed.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: Right right, So people would dress up in like modern
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: day Ireland, Scotland, I believe, Wales. Yeah, man, they would
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: dress up like demons or fairies or supernatural characters who
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: were because this veil was so thin between the living
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: and the dead or the supernatural, right, they could cross over.
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: These preachers could cross over and communicate.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: So if you dressed up them. Maybe they would be
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: confused and think you're one of them and leave you alone.
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: That's right.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: So this now we've got the costume thing going right.
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: And part of that was the community getting together, getting
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: drunk on you know, probably high octanea meat and stuff
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: like that, and they would pray through the town. They
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: still have Halloween parades all over the place. Right here
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: in Atlanta we have one of the best and little
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Five Points Halloween parade.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Fantastic, Like when you think about the Halloween preyed at
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: your town, like that is centuries millennia old. Yeah, that
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: tradition is.
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: So we have those two things going on, and then
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: the one missing piece is knock knock, Hey give me candy. Right,
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: But this we have the origins of which came and
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: it's still not Halloween. It took American kids to put
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: all this stuff together. But the European tradition of souling,
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: which was when kids on Hallow z would go from
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: house to house and pray for the souls the departed,
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: and in exchange you would get a soul cake.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which I looked up. They look pretty good.
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: What is it? Just a little bit good?
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: It looks like a muffin top like top of the muffin.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: To you, it looks really good.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: Soul cakes or mumming, which is and this sounds fantastic.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: I wish kids still had to do this stuff. You
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: would have to perform a short musical number or some
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: kind of performance to get a treat of some kind, right,
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: maybe a little spare change.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Right, So in that sense you have going to house
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: to house and getting something from the owners of the house,
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: like a treat or something like that.
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: That's right, But there was a reason.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: For that, praying for the soul of their departed loved one,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: doing a little dance number something like that. The prank part,
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: the prank part of the equation that also existed before
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: trick or treating too, and in fact that was kind
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: of the origin the biggest tradition of Halloween itself was pranking.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and that came from Ireland, is that right?
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, in the eighteen eighties, they would prank. They would
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: just run around doing pranks and then they would blame
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: those fairies or demons, right, han sown for the mischief
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: that it wasn't nuts, it was the fairies.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: On sam Hin, right, I mean it sounds.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: That's how it's spelled.
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really that's a confounding pronunciation, it is.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: But there you have it.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: And then pranks back then, and of course we're pretty
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: low key dingdung ditch stuff like that, moving the neighbor's
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: furniture to the roof.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: I saw that. Yeah, flower pot on the chimney. Sure,
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: but it would also get way way worse than that.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I looked up mischief night. We never did that.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: In Georgia, no or Devil's Night.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: It was also called.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which is the night before Halloween when all these
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: pranks would happen region to region is called different apparently.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: In New Jersey it's mischief Night, Cabbage Nights. Well, in Camden,
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: New Jersey's Mischief Night. Other parts of New Jersey call
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: it cabbage Night. Since NATA calls it Damage Night.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: That's pretty overt. That's a punk band name, right there.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: Damage Night, Yeah, totally that you insurance deductible night. Other part.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know why Ohio is so highly represented here.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Beggar's Knight is something else. They called it in Ohio.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: Chok, because there's nothing else to do in Ohio but
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: sit around and wait for that night.
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: For Hellow's Eve.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Other names Doorbell Knight, Trick Night, Corn Night, Tic Tac Night,
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: Goosey Night, and then in Canada Gate Night or Matt
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: Knight if you're in Quebec, because mat.
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: They would take.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: They would steal the gate off your fence or the
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: mat from your doorstep and.
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: Oh really remove it.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so they're pretty on the nose, especially Damage Night.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: But Devil's Night in Detroit it became legendary over about
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: a twenty year period in the seventies and through the
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: mid nineties. I saw before they finally got a little
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: bit of a could put a dent in it by
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: forming Angels Night.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they kind of rebranded it.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: Well, not rebranded.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: The angels were volunteers who would walk around to keep
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: kids from setting everything on fire.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, because that's what they did on Devil's Night.
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: It was a night of arsen It was a night
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: of arson.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: I thought that it ran its course because they burned
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: all the buildings down in Detroit. There was nothing else left.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: It was a real problem.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: Though I looked into it and like hundreds of kids,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Like in nineteen ninety four, I think there were like
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: three hundred and fifteen kids arrested from the Devils Night
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: fires and other stuff.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty four, the peak of Devil's Night in Detroit,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: there were eight hundred and ten cases of arson in
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: one night. Amazing in Detroit. Yeah, they would just set
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: the city on fire.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: And I'm sure some of these were bags of poop
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: on a doorstep, which I think we can all agree
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: is harmless fun.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: It is, unless you're the steppy cever.
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: Did any of the stuff? I never rolled a house.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Oh you didn't, Now that was fun.
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: I'm so mad. I was so busy being good.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: Never too late, buddy.
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: I know I should roll a house or fork a yard.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: I don't know if that is the plastic forks.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: Just basically get like two thousand plastic forks and stick
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: them in the yard.
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I've never heard of that one. You never
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: did that. Really chew up a lawnmower.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: I never egged a house because I always heard that, Yeah,
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: really damage his paint.
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah. We did have the Junior senior egg fight every year.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: That was kind of fun.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Well, there you go, you got something.
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: We get together in a field and throw eggs at
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: each other.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Aside from wasting a lot of press resource with well eggs, yes,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: but also toilet paper. You really should roll somebody's house
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: at least once in your life. It's great, is it?
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah? All right, Yeah, I'm gonna roll your condo.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: I remember when I was a kid. Actually, my friend
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: and I rolled the neighbor's house, but we had to
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: be in or at least, so we were doing it
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: basically in broad daylight. It was dusk at best, and
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: the cop drove by, which never happened in our neighborhood ever.
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: Never.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: The cops just weren't needed, right, It was just I
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: think we talked about in the free Range episode in
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: parents episode, you could just do whatever. And we had
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: to knock out of the house of the neighbor whose
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: house we just rolled to let us in to hide
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: from the cop. She went out and told the cop like,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: it's it's fine, don't worry about it. We rolled her
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: house and had to get safe harbor from her.
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And you can't really clean up a roll house,
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: can you.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: You can? And if they come tell your parents what
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: you did. The rain makes it way worse.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but I mean you can't you up there can right?
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: Some of it's inevitably stuck up there. But you can
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: pull it down as gingerly as you can to get
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: as much as you can. But no, some's going to
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: be left over.
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: All right, I'm going to roll a house.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Okay, just know whose house you're rolling, like, you don't
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: want to get shot at or anything.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: I don't see that anymore either, I feel like it.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't live in the suburbs. Maybe it's
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: a little more prone to happen there. Yeah, but it
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: seems like a lost art it very well.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know anybody who rolls. I just assumed
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: it was because we'd outgrown it, you know.
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: Emily called it teeping house.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah that's Ohio.
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, all right, let's take a break.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: We barely talked about this. I think we're one page
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: in good that's great, all.
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: Right, stop, should stop, should know?
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: So to recap, Chuck, we have the costumes in play now.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: We have being out on Halloween nights sometimes parading drunkenly community,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: we have going from house to house, and we have
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: the prank factor.
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: All of these things are out there, floating around, have
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: been out there for centuries millennia. By the time America
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: is born and makes it to the twentieth century, and
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: at some point some kids said, we think, hey, you
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: know what, we could pull all this together and turn
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: it into something really amazing and peculiar and unique called
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: trick or treating.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: You found a great piece from a sociologist named Samira Kawash,
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: great name called Gangsters, Pranksters, and trick or Treating nineteen
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: thirty to nineteen sixty.
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and is this.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: That pure period, Yeah, that you were talking about where
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: she thinks that American kids just created this thing.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's two historical views, because we don't know where
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: it came from.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: Huh.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: One historical view, and I think this is what Kawash
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: believes too, is that it was actually kids who figured
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: this out, which is great, who said we can extort
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: adults to not prank them if they give us treats, right,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: And that it was a genuinely a kid in mention
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: of kids, they made it up, right, And there's some
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: evidence for that kind of thing. A lot of like
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: the early newspaper accounts of it kind of call the
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: kids gangsters and say they're extorting people. It's also possible
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: that was like written super tongue in cheek and that dry.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: It was kind of dry and lost to the ages.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: The other historical view is that the kids were out
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: pranking and doing the pranks, and it was the adults
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: that introduced treats into the equation to buy them off,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: okay to yeah, to keep them from pranking.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: Right, Los Angeles possibly as the point of origin, and
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: this one wealthy kids. I guess that makes sense that
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: this would be the idea of like kids a privilege. Sure,
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: you know, like come around, give me stuff. But apparently
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: in Los Angeles, kids in the wealthy parts of town
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: would dress up and their parents would take them around
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: from house to house and this is this is that
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: pre nineteen thirty period though.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they think sometime in the twenties, and if you
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: think about it, that really resembles what we do today. Yeah,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: But in between that origin and where we've arrived today,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: there was this pure period nineteen thirty to nineteen sixties.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Some people might even take it a little further beyond that,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: where the kids seem to have run the show, and
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: there really was both sides of the equation.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: A trick or a treat, right, But that term actually
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: was in nineteen twenty seven in an article. Right, it's
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: at the first time they found the two words in print.
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: Together, I guess three words.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: That was in an article about a town called Blackie
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: in Alberta, Canada. Yeah, and it seems like all of
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: it was sort of on the West coast early on.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and again they think possibly it did originate in
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Los Angeles, or it may have originated in multiple towns
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: on the West coast roughly at the same time.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: But we're thinking twenties because in nineteen nineteen there was
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: a book by Ruth Edna called Ruth ruth Na Kelly
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: called The Book of Halloween, and it didn't mention any
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: kind of trick or treating in there.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: No, and it's like an exhaustive, comprehensive homemaker.
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: Oh review would have been in there, right for sure,
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: and you.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Got to think, like poor Ruth ed Ni Kelly's like, gosh,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: if I just waited like two years to put this
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: book out, they're going to come up with something brand
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: new with Halloween two years after I come.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: Up with this book, I wrote the book on it. Right,
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: not quite now it's out of date.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: But they did find mentions of it in newspapers out
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: West Portland, Washington, Reno, Nevada, Nevada, Helena, Montana.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you can kind of track its progress from
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: the dates and mentions in West East paper articles. Right. Yeah.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: So there's those two sides. One say that it was
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: kids who came up with it on their own. Perhaps
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: they were introduced with the idea of going from house
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: to house to get treats in Los Angeles, but then
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: they said, well, we're also doing these prankings. Maybe we
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: can say, hey, we won't prank you if you give
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: us a treat. There's that view. The other view, again
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: is that it was adults who said, whoa kids, You know,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: we don't want you setting fires any longer, derailing street
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: cars because every once in a while, somebody would die,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: people would get shot at by angry neighbors. Sometimes somebody
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: would be in one of those buildings that they set
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: on fire and they die. People would die in a
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: building that kids set on fire as a Halloween prank.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: So for the most part though, it was just kind
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: of tolerated as one night a year when the kids
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: basically had power and we're allowed to run the show.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: So this idea, this other historical view that adults finally said, hey,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: you know, we're not going to just say you can't
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: do pranking. That'll probably be a bad thing. But why
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: don't we just start having parties on Halloween night while
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: we're out pranking, and they'll be cider and doughnuts, and
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: you can come inside and bob for apples and maybe
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: do that instead of running around pranking the neighborhood. And
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: once you did do that, you went from and this
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: is samir k Wash putting it, like you under the
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: rules of society. You went from this powerful kid who
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: could levy a prank on you if he or she
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: wanted to, to a house guest of the adult who
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: now had you in and had given you donuts and cider.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: You're really going to set their house on fire as
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: a prank after that? Of course not, you're not going to.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: So in this sense, trick or treating was something the
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: adults introduced to keep kids from carrying out these pranks.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was by the time World War two
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: came around. It was a big thing in the nineteen forties.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: But of course, with the sugar rationing and just the
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: fact that there was World War two going on, it
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: put a dent in it for a little while, but
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: it came back bigger than it ever had been after
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: the war, And.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: I mean seriously, it came very close to dying out
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: going from World War Two. It was pretty new. It
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: hadn't gained that much traction. There were a lot of
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: cranks and grumps who were not happy about this kind
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: of thing.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: I'm curious what else had died in the war and
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: never came back. There's got to be lots of little things.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: That's a great question to look it up.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: But there were a couple of big pop culture sort
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: of tent poles that helped Halloween along Charles Schultz's pe Nuts.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Of course, it wasn't the Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown yet.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: That was the sixties, I think, yeah.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: But in nineteen fifty one he had a four day
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: comic strip run around Halloween where the Peanuts gang got
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: already and got their costumes going, and that really brought
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: it to the forefront.
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: And then Donald Duck. It was a cartoon Donald Duck Trick.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Or Treat a year after that that had Donald working
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: with his nephews, or trying to prank his nephews while
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: they were trick or treating and working with a witch,
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: and then the candy companies get involved.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: There was also a very famous costume company called Ben
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Cooper Costumes.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they're the ones that did like the cheap.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Yes, plastic mask like a Vinyl smod that's right. But
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: they had this really great talent of identifying what was
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: going to be like a hop culture phenomenon.
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: Before it ever blew up. Yeah, it'd get the right.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: They're cheap, yeah, but they were also making these things
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: like ten months before, so they really had to have
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: foresight and they were really good at it. But the
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: fact that you could get cheap, amazing costumes that the
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: little kids all wanted of their favorite characters, yeah, that
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: definitely helped things along too.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was It's hard to overstate like how big
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: of a deal it was to a kid to be
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: that the certain whatever they wanted to be. I think
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: it's still that way, I'm sure it is, but now
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: it's a lot easier, I think to buy costumes, right.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: I think when you and I were kids, there's a
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: lot of fashioning costumes.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: Uh huh.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: When you didn't have the ability to be like the
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: alien from Alien or you know, it was a lot
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: harder to put together these elaborate costumes, but once you
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: get your heart set on it, you like you had.
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: To sure, you know.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to tell you my best costume, and
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: you tell me yours. Okay, okay, my mom made one
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: from scratch. Yeah, clown is a clown costume. But the
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: big kicker was that it was an upside down clown
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: walking on his hands, So my feet were the clown's hands. Yes,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: his head is like dangling between my legs. I've got
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: his legs sticking up off of my shoulders and I
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: don't remember my head must have been covered up like
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: I was in his butt or something like that, right,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: but I was upside down walking clown. Greatest costume ever?
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: Really? Yeah? Got any pictures somewhere? Okay?
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: I did a lot of funny ones, like my brother
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: and I were Han Solo and Luke Skywalker when I
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: was really little nice. But then I got into like
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: I was always wanted to do like funny characters. I
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: like like I like Ed Grimley one year, the Saturday
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: Night Live character I did Ed Grimley one year, and
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: I was I don't know, I felt like I was
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: always trying to make people laugh. I never did scary.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Stuff until little kids started coming around and trick or
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: treating me at your house.
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: Yes, and then you started just scaring like movie characters.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: Like even into my adult years, you know, I would
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: try and find some cool movie character, like Hi from
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: Raising your Zona.
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: I did one year.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: It's almost a grimly same here.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: Uh No, not all actually uh.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: And then one year I did a great I actually
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: won a contest in New Jersey one year when I
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: was a hardy kushna and I like shaved my head.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: I did the whole thing. Wow, I had literature. I
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: passed out. Wow, made the whole the whole deal.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: You just ended up joining a local chapter for a
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: little while. It was fine, really got into the role.
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: But I haven't. It's been a few years since I've
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: dressed up.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, same here, because I just, oh, that's not true.
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: I haven't been.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: I haven't been to a Halloween party in probably five years. Right,
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: what were you last year?
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: I was Patrick Bateman from American Psycho.
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: So you were you, but with a tie, right and like.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: A giant inflatable brick cell phone.
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: Uh huh?
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: And you was a specific Michael Jackson A moment of
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: Michael Jackson's history where he's holding blanket over the balcony.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Oh sure, and Momo wast it's you can see it
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: on Instagram.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: That's great. Yeah, I have to check that out, all right.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: So the candy company started getting involved, That's where I
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: left off.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because the costume company.
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: They knew it was gold for them.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: Mars Incorporated in the early nineteen fifties were doing ad
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: campaigns on TV and in newspapers and on the radio
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: and stuff about trick or treat. It became a thing
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: with UNISEF. They had a Trick or Treat for UNISEF
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: campaign back then.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: I think they still might, you know. You know, I'm
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: talking about the little boxes. I think so holds change.
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and they.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Would just give them to little kids, and while they
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: were out trick or treating, they'd also ask for change
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: for UNISEF right to help needy kids overseas. Yeah, and
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: that actually went a really long way to legitimizing trick
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: or treating.
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: They're doing a lot in these days too for kids
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: special needs kids like it. It's taken this long to
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: finally get the word out, Like the blue pumpkins.
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: Have you heard of those?
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: If you trick or treat with a blue pumpkin, that
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: means that you have some special need where you may
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: not be able to walk to a front door and
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: say trick or treat. I'm dressed as you know, Michigan
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: j bullfrog what.
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: That'd be a great costume? It would be.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: But did you pull that off of I just yeah, wow, nice.
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: He's been on my mind lately. I guess so.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: But so people know, like, oh, you've got a blue pumpkin,
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: so I shouldn't say, like, you know, come on, kid,
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: why don't you tell me what your costume is?
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: And?
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: Uh?
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: It's good though, like that it's taken.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: It's ironic that it's taken this long to get parents
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: on board to the fact that some kids need, you know,
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: different kinds of treatment.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know if ironic is the best word, as
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: much as disappointing is. Yeah, you know, you're probably right.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Should we take another break? Oh my god, we're gonna
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: have to take three more?
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: No?
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Not, okay, yes, we will then.
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: Stop? You should know stop? You should I should know?
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: All right, So I think basically what we were saying
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: when we left off, it's sorry about the nostalgia here everybody.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: But I mean, come on, you.
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: Get us in a room. Yeah, around Halloween, it's going
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: to happen.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: So by the early fifties, trigger treating was huge and
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: established and had so if the nineteen thirty to nineteen
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: sixty was the Heyday, the golden age of trigger treating,
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: nineteen fifty to nineteen fifty nine was the salad days
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: of the Heyday?
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: And when did people start complaining about it? The seventies
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: and eighties, nineties.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Far back as the twenties. Oh really, yeah, because those
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: newspaper articles that you can track the progress of Halloween,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: more often than not they were like old cranks complaining
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: about how they didn't want to have to give tricks
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: or treats or whatever little kids.
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: Don't you blackmail me?
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: They don't, Yeah, exactly, you know, what are we teaching
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: our kids? And there's actually, if you kind of scratch
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: beneath the surface of trick or treating, at first, it
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: appears to be kind of a weird power struggle between
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: kids and adults, and it definitely is that, But there's
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: also another power struggle going on between adults of two
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: different minds, ones who are like you are overparenting by
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: being upset about this or like this is just one
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: night a year, it's good for kids, and other people
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: are saying like this is terrible for kids. Well, allowing
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: them to go from house to house to beg is
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: just a bad idea. It's unsafe a is another way
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: to put it to. So there's like a struggle weirdly
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: over trick or treating, and it has to do with
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: underparenting and overparenting and that conversation about the whole thing.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: I have seen parents ruin kids' experiences, whether it's like
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: a Easter egg hunt or trick or treating.
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: I've seen this in action.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Because they're too involved. Yeah, yeah, I mean that's what
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: it comes down to, is just how involved are you
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: in your kids trick or treating. For a very brief period,
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: there was very little involvement in kids trick or treating. Yeah,
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: and a lot of people say that's actually really good
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: for kids. In this other way that we've kind of
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: started to evolve toward is not.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't remember my parents taking me around trick
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: or treating. I'm sure that happened maybe when I was
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: really little, and we certainly would have had to go
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: somewhere else, because you know, I've lived on the dirt road,
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: the dirt road with no neighbors or very few of them.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: But I just all my memories stem from being like
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: probably ten to fifteen and being completely on my own
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: with my friends.
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: Ten to fifteen, ten years old.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: But to fifteen, that's pretty late.
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: What to trick or treat?
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh, now we trick or treated up until
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: probably the like the ninth orteenth grade.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Well we'll get to it, but in some places you
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: get to get arrested for that.
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: When did you stop? You'd still trick or treat if
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: they would let you.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: I think I stopped around thirteen.
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: Well, maybe fifteen was too late. Maybe thirteen or fourteen.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: You're fine, nough fifteenth great, go with God.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: No, but you're you're probably right now that I'll look
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: back at. Maybe I went to Halloween parties, but maybe.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: There's a kind of an unofficial slash official again in
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: some places cut off after twelve, really done? Yeah, because
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: thirteen you're a teenager now, and that's not kids stuff
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: as we'll see it. Allegedly, trick or treating is a
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: transition from kidhood to adulthood, and by the time you're thirteen,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: you've made that transition that's in your past. It's sad,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: but it's I don't know why, I'm like Christopher walk
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, but I am. Yeah.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: Maybe I wasn't going that late, but I definitely remember
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: going by myself at a certain point. But now with
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: my neighborhood, it's just that I see mostly parents.
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: Not involved at all.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: They're there kind of like if your child is two
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: or three, helping them walk to the door and stuff. Sure,
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: but otherwise we're just drinking and the kids are doing
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: their things.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about this. Then let's skip toward the
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: end and we'll jump back. Okay, all right, there is
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: this debate over, you know, whether it's better to just
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: kind of cross your fingers and hope for the best
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: and let your kids go out and trick or treat
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: on their own, whether that's good or whether we need
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: to the world's just too unsafe for that, and we
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: need to much more manage kids trick or treating than
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: just letting them go out on their own.
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: Well, it depends on where you are. That's the big divide.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And one of my personal heroes, the world's worst
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: mom Lenori's Kanazi, who came up with the Free Range
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: Kid's blog and the whole movement. Frankly, she makes this
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: really great point that when we let kids trick or treat,
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: we let them confront danger like on their own, and
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: it's real, it's just a thin, the narrowest margin of danger.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, people always talk about like the you know,
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: like the worst things that could happen on on Halloween
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: when a kids out trigger treating, getting hit by a car,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: getting kidnapped by a stranger, getting like, yes, just stuff
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: that happens, and it can't happen. It's true, but it
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: happens so infrequently that the chances are it's not going
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: to happen, and you're actually better off just letting the
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: kid roll the dice, because, as Lenorise Kanazi puts it,
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: when when you go trigger treating, you're transitioning from being
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: a kid to a grown up, and you're doing this
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: quite literally. You go with your parents first, and they
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: kind of teach you the rules of the road, like
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: just take one piece of candy, or that house over
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: there has their lights off, so leave them alone. They
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: don't want to have anything to do with this and
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: then after that you let them go on their own, right,
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: and they kind of take the ball and roll with it.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: And she says that that when they're out trick or
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: treating kids dressed like grown ups, they take to the streets,
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: they encounter the scariest possible locals, which is in goblins,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: and then yes, they're doing the scariest possible time night
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: and the whole thing is dressed rehearsal for adulthood, and
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: that like, that's the benefit of trick or treating.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: I don't quite get that that is the same as adulthood.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: Like you and I all the time walking around night
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: fighting goblins and water.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Right, exactly where would we have been without trick or
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: treating to prepare us for fighting goblins?
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: All right?
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: But just confronting fears are on their own, without their
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: parents managing their world for them so that they can
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: handle themselves, have the confidence to know they can handle themselves.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: And I guess feel good about having confronted their fears
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: and gotten candy in return. Let's not forget about that. Yeah, Now,
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: on the other hand, it's just just take the candy.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: It's fine, right, Mommy and Daddy made it perfect for you.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: All you have to do is go get the candy.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: You're in a perfect bubble and everything's fine. Yeah, So
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: I kind of tend to fall on Lenor's Knazzi's side
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: on that.
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: Well, should we talk a little bit about the.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: You know, whether or not there have been all these
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: real horror stories over the years, and whether or not
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: any of those are true. As far as the razor
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: blade and the apple and stuff like that, hypodermic needles
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: and candy, this stuff doesn't happen, No.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: And the thing to point out, and I know we've
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: talked about it before, is that it was an urban
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: legend that came true.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: Right There was one case, and this is actually kind
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: of funny if you asked me. In nineteen fifty nine,
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: there was a dentist in California named William Shine who
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: I took alo laxative pills and disguise them as candy
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: and give out four hundred and fifty of them jerk
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: to kids, and they were all pooping.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: I guess, so I think a few did poop. Nobody
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: got injured, though.
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: Right now, you're not gonna get injured from a laxative.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: You could poop over, poop over poop.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but this is when I think this real story
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: got out. And then all of a sudden he gets
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: morphed into needles and razor blades or poison or candy
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: laced with heroin and.
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: Stuff like that. Well that did happen.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, but that's the thing, Like the examples that
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: are listed are reverse engineered almost right.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Right, So, there was a little boy in Texas who
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: died from eating a cyanide laced pixie stick right in Texas,
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: in I can't remember what year.
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: Of seventy four, and.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: It turned out that it was his dad. That his
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: dad was the scum of the earth who had taken
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: out insurance policies on his own children, good Lord, and
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: then gave them spiked Halloween candy to make it look
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: like some mad poisoner he killed his kids so he
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: could collect insurance. One of his kids did die, but
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: it wasn't just some random Halloween poisoner. That guy didn't
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: really exist at the time.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, nineteen seventy in Detroit was the heroin incident. This
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: kid overdose, These kids ate their uncle stash is what
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: really happened. And then the uncle's like, oh crap, let
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: me sprinkle the heroin on the candy and cook up
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: the story and maybe cook up some heroin right since
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: I'm cooking, Yeah, and to try and get out of this.
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: So again, it really happened, but not in the way
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: that you think.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: No. The thing that got everybody so that William Shine guy,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: who I just think is a scale for that, because
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: he scared the pants off of America's parentsh He basically said, hey, hey,
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: you know how you're letting your kids run free? Something
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: really bad could happened to him, and I just showed
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: you how. And from that that next year on, the
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: parents were anxiously involved in Halloween like they never had
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: been before. Sure because of William Shine. But the thing
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: that really killed Halloween, or at least cemented I think
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: the anxieties in the heads of parents in America is
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: that tail and All poisoner. Oh, sure canceled Halloween nineteen
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: eighty two. Did it really almost drove Ben Cooper Costumes
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: out of business? Candy sales went down fifty percent.
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: Trick or treated in nineteen eighty two, Well.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Your parents didn't love you. I think I did too.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: I don't remember not I would remember not trick or
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: treating one year.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because that would have been eleven. That's prime time, right,
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: Apparently those are the retirement years.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: But all of this stuff added a veneer of fear
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: and anxiety on trick or treating for parents, not for
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: kids necessarily, but for parents, and it drew them into
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: what was possibly just a kid run activity because of fear,
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: probably irrational. Yeah, and now you have to this day,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: the FDA sending out guidelines around Halloween saying don't let
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: your kids eat any candy until they bring it home,
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: which is just torture. Yeah, and you have to inspect
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: it and if you've see any pinholes or tears or
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: anything that looks weird, just throw it away. Some hospitals
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: say bring your kids candy and well X ray ye
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: to see if there's any razor blades or needles in
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: it or something like that. This is the kind of
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: terror that ironically is overlaid on Halloween. It's like fun
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: terror has actual real terror on top of it, which
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: makes it less fun.
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: We don't inspect candy. Oh you don't you roll the dice? Huh?
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great.
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: I don't know anyone who does.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Really.
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: Oh, man, I was raised like that. You inspect it candy.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, my parents were serious about it.
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: We never did. I don't know, I just I don't know.
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: That's great.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's that thing of like if you're the because
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: it doesn't happen.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: Right, No, I'm hardened to hear that. Yeah, because when
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: we did our Free Range Kids episode, I remember thinking, like,
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: what what's going on now? Like like kids are treated
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: like this yor not.
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: Being poisoned by Halloween candy. It's just not happening, right,
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Plus in our neighborhood, with the sanctioned closure, all
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: the candy is, people aren't buying their own candy. It's
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: like the neighborhood buys all the candy and they congregated
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: in these couple of blocks.
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: Oh that's cool.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I mean there could be a madman living
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: among us. It happens, but that's like being scared to
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: walk out your front door for fear of being murdered.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: Right right, Chuck, You know you just can't live that way.
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: You can't live that way. You know.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: You told me a story about a village, Like villages
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: in Japan have like a festival or two every year. Now,
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: like the whole community comes out it's like a big deal.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: And there was one village, a little tiny town where
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: this one woman, just I guess, went mad and poisoned
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: the curry that she brought to the village. Thing, kill
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: the bunch of townspeople. It happens, It does happen. But
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: you're right, you can't not eat the curry just because
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: of the small, small chance that some mad person has
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: poisoned it.
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: The way I look at it is, if that's what happens,
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: then that's you know, your numbers up, your numbers up
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: in your story in the newspaper, right to scare other people.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: Sure, you get to be immortalized on stuff.
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: You should know it's trick or treat going away, Josh,
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: I don't know, Chuck, I say, no, Okay, that's good.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear that, because again I'm living hashtag
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: condo life. I'm out of the action.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there's this the last bit of this
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: article you sent talked about it going away potentially, But
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: I just I don't think that's ever ever going to happen.
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: So what are your arguments for it going away?
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: That it might My arguments or your are my observation,
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: your observations. One of the big ones is that fear
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: among parents that helicopter parenting has not been good for
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: trick or treating. Ah okay, okay, but think about that's
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: a real struggle going on right now overparenting versus underparenting.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: Which one's gonna win out right? Okay. Another one is
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: there's a perception that that trick or treating is dying out,
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: which is kind of funny, is there. Yes, because people
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: are moving back into towns and gentrifying those towns, like
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: we talked about in the Historic District episode, and as
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: they're doing that. Trigger treating was never huge in the city,
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: and so people who were raised in the suburbs and
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: or were used to it or moving into the city
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: and there's no trigger treating going on anymore. So I
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: guess trick or treating is dying because that's what I'm seeing.
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: I beg to differ with that too.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, But I mean, you don't live in the city city,
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: you live in a neighborhood.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's all Atlanta is a bunch of neighborhoods. Okay,
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: you mean I don't live downtown.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: Maybe these people live in Des Moines.
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: I don't know. No one lives in downtown Atlanta.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: No, it's true, although it has gotten cooler than it
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: was like a decade ago.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: Sure, but I beg to differ that trick or treating
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: doesn't go on in the cities. I think there are
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: apartment buildings in New York where people trick or treat,
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: like just because it's not the picket fence suburban neighborhood.
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: Sure, I think trick or treating goes on everywhere.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: But this author my house, Julie Beck, who wrote in
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: The Atlantic, she put it really well that basically the
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: suburbs and trick or treating just go hand in hand. Sure,
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: Like the suburbs are set up for trick or treat. Yeah,
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: you've got houses that are close together, super safe, yeap
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: where people who live there are just well enough off
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: to buy enough candy for the whole neighborhood. Yeah, they
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: all have kids, They know each other enough that you're
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: not embarrassed for your kid to go up in trick
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: or treat there, and you know that this candy is
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: not going to be poisoned. In the city, you're much
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: more isolated from one another, even though you're living on
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: top of one another.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think maybe if we're talking about like
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: areas where there are poor kids and where poverty is
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: run rampant, then maybe there's less traditional trick or treating,
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: but there are programs and parties and things they try
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: to do for those kids too.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, so those very things may end up being what
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: kills trick or treating, I should say, the purest version
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: of trick or treating. You can also just make the
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: case well that's what it's evolving into, and just go
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: with it.
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: I think it will probably be both.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: But you're talking about the big Halloween parties, community parties,
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: trunk or treating, trunk or treating, or what was it
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: called Halloween tailgating, Halloween tailgating, trunk or treating. This is
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: the idea that you and we had this at our school.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: We had the Halloween festival, but that did not replace
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: trick or treating.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: Okay, this replaces trick or treating for a lot of children.
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: So you go out and you get in a big
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: church parking lot essentially, yep, and you have Bob and
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: Frapples and the dunk tank.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: Oh this is different, and huh, this is a little
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: different than that well.
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: I mean I've seen these in person, and.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, but that's a Halloween festival you're talking about.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: No, No, I'm talking about instead of trick or treating. It's
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: a big party where they have candy and they have
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: activities and games and stuff.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: So are you going from car to car getting candy
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: like the cars or houses?
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: No, not necessarily, but they're giving out candy.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, you're not talking about a trunk er treating.
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: It feels very nitpicky to me. No, but it's not.
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: And here's why I'm not talking about a Halloween festival though.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's fine, that's fine, but you're not talking about
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: a trunk er treating either.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: You mean you walk five feet to a car and
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: they give you candy, then five feet to another car
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: and they say, don't play any games, don't bob for apples,
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: or don't do anything else.
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: All you're doing is walking to cars.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that they don't have bobbing for apples,
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: but the purpose of trunk or treating is to basically
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: set up a safe ring of cars where the kids
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: are literally penned in. Yeah, the kids who used to
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: be the ones who were running the show are now
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: penned in by the anxious adults cars handing out candy
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: rather than going to houses, walking around to church parking
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: lot for trunk or treating instead of trick or treating. Yes,
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: these are not the kids who could pull that.
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to replace trick or treat what the.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: Kids in the goonies were able to pull off because
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: they had freedom and spark. That kids who trunk or
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: treat are being denied right as let me go back
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: to my friend Lenor Skanazi. She says, the trunk or
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: treating is just another adult light activity, one that reinforces
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: the community killing idea that kids aren't ever safe outside
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: the home, school or supervised program. And that is most
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: definitely the message that kids get when they're trunk or treating.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that is not going to kill trick
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: or treating or take over trick or treating.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: We'll see, Chuck.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: I hope you're right, because one thing I have not
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: seen since I've lived in Atlanta is any big trunk
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: or treating activities.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: Well, that's because you live in Atlanta. All you have
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: to do is go out to the suburbs and they're everywhere.
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: But the suburbs are made for trick or treating. They're
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: out in the neighborhoods.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: I got to end on a quote I ran across
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: a website, I guess a church website that's talking about
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: trunk or treating. It's awesome this quote. It says that
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: the scariest part about the night this is a trunk
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: or treating night, isn't the costumes. It's the possibility that
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: you could miss out on the chance to use trunk
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: or treat to build relationships and reach these kids with
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: the gospel. Well, yeah, that's the opposite of what Halloween
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: is all about.
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: That's right.
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: Have you got anything else? It's about arson, right, eight
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: and ten cases of it. Sorry, I'm one of those
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: curmudgeons that it turns out one more thing. Yes, if
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: you like Halloween, go on to our old Stuff you
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: should know website and search Halloween and Creepy and you're
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: gonna find some amazing slideshows we put together over the
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: years that I remember that. One of my favorite is
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: cute and creuddy Halloween costumes, vintage Halloween costumes that are
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: really creepy, best Jack lanterns, all sorts of great stuff.
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: Remember those days where we count page views and get
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: excited about that.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this one felt like a bit of a tirade.
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah was it? I don't think so.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, Kim, Well, if you want to know more about Halloween,
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: get out of there and trigger treat. And since I
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: said that as time for listener may.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: This is follow up on paraphilias that we wanted to
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: read for the last few weeks. Just now get into it.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: Hey guys, longtime listener, first time writer. I've had this
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: episode pop up a few times. It's just been on
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: my mind. I'm in our N with MSN and background
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: and have background in neurophysiology who enjoys studying abnormal psych
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: I understand you were doing a show on psychological term
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: on a psychological term, but you may have ended up
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: painting wrong ideas onto certain practices, specifically S and M
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: and cross dressing. From when I've come to know, it's
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: extremely rare that people practice these primarily for sexual gratification.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: Of course, these practices are adult in nature. Most regard
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: it as an emotional practice or exploration of self. For example,
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: shibari or rope bondage takes hundreds of hours of practice
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: to perform and those that partake describe a meditation like
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: state as a result, though most would say it's sn M.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: Most cross stressors describe the long process of becoming female
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: as cathartic and self affirming, although be it temporary. Simplifying
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: cross stressors to those who walk around on high heels
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: to reach completion, well imagine saying that about a trans woman.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: Of course, if you were doing these practices for sexual gratification,
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: all the power to you. I suggest you look into
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: kink culture as an episode. It's where a wide range
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: of people congregate and share their interest in a community
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: that is founded off respect and consent their meetups and
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: presentations on practices so that others can learn proper technique.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: The most that practice would like to keep their privacy,
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: and that is from Anonymous.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: Takes a lot, Anonymous. That was a good correction emails right. Yeah.
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: If you want to get in touch with us like
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: Anonymous did to set us straight, we love that kind
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: of thing. You can join us at stuff youshould Know
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: dot com and check out our social links there, and
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: you can send us an email to Stuff podcast at
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: iHeartRadio dot com.
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: more podcasts My heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.