Latest / Drawn of History / Joe Rogan Experience _2368 - Michael Button(M4A_128K)

Transcript

Joe Rogan Experience _2368 - Michael Button(M4A_128K) · Drawn of History

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: The Joe Rogan Experience.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.
• 0:09
  Speaker 3: Hey, Joe.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Good to see you, man. Nice to meet you.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: You too, man. Pleasure.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: I love your channel, man. It's really great.
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: You're really doing some really interesting videos. When did you
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: get started? Thanks.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Well, I only started the YouTube less than a year ago.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: That's crazy.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: It's been a bit of a wild ride.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: I don't even know how I found it. It was
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: like one of them YouTube recommends things. It just popped up.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: And I don't remember which one it was. It was
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: something on ancient history. And I was like, oh, all right. Yeah,
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: it was cool.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I started just under a year ago,
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: but no one started watching until like March. And then
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: I think you see me just after that point. And
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: it's been a bit of a big journey since then upwards.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: But it's been very exciting and very happy to be
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: here today. Very excited to be in Austin. And yeah,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: looking forward to talk about some ancient history.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: So did you start off on a traditional academic journey
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: and then sort of get sidetracked into a YouTube career?
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Like how did this work?
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, basically. So I studied ancient history at university for
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: four years. And I've always been interested in history. I've
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: done history all the way through. Like I was fascinated
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: about history as a kid and got to the stage
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: of my life where it was, you know, thinking about
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: going to university. So I thought I'll do ancient history
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: at university and study there for four years. Graduated. all
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: of that kind of stuff. But there came a point
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: during my degree where I was kind of, you know,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: a little bit, I didn't quite agree with the kind
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: of high level ideas regarding the timeline of history and
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: what we're taught about our ancient past. And it wasn't
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: that I disputed anything that I'd been taught. And I
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: have like great respect for the people that I met
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: at university and my professors. And I don't dispute anything
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: that we were taught actually on the course, but it
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: was more the kind of high level macro perspective of,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: history that I found myself having more and more questions about.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: What bothered you?
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: What were the questions?
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: It was kind of the big questions regarding the origins
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: of civilization and how deep civilization goes and how complex
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: human behavior, I thought, went way back further into history
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: than what we were being taught. I just didn't buy
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: this idea that Nothing happened for like a vast stretch
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: of time. Because it was during my course that they
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: found that modern humans, they made this discovery in Morocco
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: in 2017 or 2018, I think. And that was when
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: I was at university.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: Was that Denisovans?
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: No, no, Homo sapiens. So I can't remember. It's called
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: like the Jebel Irud site or something like that. But
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: they were modern Homo sapien remains. They thought they were
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Neanderthal initially because they were so old.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: How old were they?
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: They're 315,000 years old. That's kind of like the estimate.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: It goes up to potentially 360,000 years old. So they're
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: super old. And yeah, they thought they were initially Neanderthals
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: of this age, but then they discovered a few more
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: and they classified them as Homo sapien. And when I
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: saw that, I was like, how is this not kicking
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: up more of a fuss? Because before them, the oldest
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Homo sapien remains we had were around 200,000 years old.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: And that had been the case for like a decade
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: or something. And before that, it was like 100,000 years old.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: So this discovery pushed back the age of our species
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: by another third, like 100,000 years. So I saw that
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: and I was thinking like, how are we still basing
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: our kind of idea of history around the fact that
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: nothing happened for, you know, 310,000 years and then everything
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: happened in like the last, you know, 10,000 years since
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: the Neolithic revolution. I just thought that was odd because,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: you know, we've been in this anatomically modern form for
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: so long and yet we were being taught that nothing
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: had happened until, you know, the last, 10,000 years and
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: that just didn't make sense to me so that's kind
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: of where I started thinking about it and then we
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: did this module at university I remember called it was
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: called something like Cataclysms or something and it was all
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: about how in recorded history natural disaster had a big
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: impact on human societies and stuff like that and how
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: small like tiny changes in climate could massively disrupt human
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: civilization and bring them all crashing down and the case
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: study they used was something called the Late Bronze Age Collapse,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: have you ever heard of the Late Bronze Age Collapse? Yeah,
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: it's when all these like powerful influential civilizations at the
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: kind of peak of human progress around 1000 BC all
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: simultaneously came crashing down and no one was quite sure
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: why it was but the best theory we have is
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: that it's like a kind of combination of climate factors
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: which led to trade disruption which led to societal unrest
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: and then all these empires like the Hittite empire the
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Syrian empire the palaces of Mycenae in Greece the Egyptian
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: new kingdom all within a 20 to 30 40 year
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: period all came crashing down the exact same time and
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: I remember being hooked by that. I was like, that's
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: so crazy. We don't even know why this happened, but
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: it was like a half degree change in climate. And
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: so I remember starting to research how bad a climate
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: had been during history and how bad it had been,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: like these big climatic episodes had been during prehistory. And
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: I started thinking like, wow, if that had caused all
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: these civilizations to collapse, just a tiny half degree change
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: in climate, which caused drought, which led to those civilizations collapsing.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Some of the stuff that had been happening during prehistory
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: was so much worse than that. And that got me thinking, like,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: how do we know that sophisticated human culture hadn't flourished,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: you know, 10,000 years ago, 20,000 years ago, 100,000 years ago, 200,000
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: years ago, and collapsed due to climate change or natural disaster, volcanoes,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: comet impacts, anything like that. And that's kind of what
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: set me on the journey, that along with the, you know,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: the discovery of the remains in Morocco. And that really
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: got me thinking about the story we've told regarding our
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: past and how I wasn't quite sure. And Yeah, that's
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: kind of what made me initially kind of break away
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: from the traditional timeline that we were being taught.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: The term prehistory is weird, isn't it? Because it's like,
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: according to what? What we find? Yeah. You know, I mean,
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: how do we know what historical... If there was a
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: great cataclysm, like if the Younger Dryas impact theory is correct,
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: how much history would be written down? What would be left?
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: How would you find it? What would you know? Yeah.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: You know, we're... that's one of the things that disturbs
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: me the most is the arrogance that some academics have
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: to having a definitive understanding of the exact timeline of agriculture, civilization,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: and then modern humans. Yeah.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: It annoys me. I feel like academics, as opposed to
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: the alternative historians are kind of more saying, we don't know,
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: but here's a potential hypothetical scenario that could be possible.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Whereas I feel like more mainstream for want of a
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: better word. I don't really like using that because I
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: don't think there's such thing as a mainstream. It's not
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: like there's a group of people that will collectively decide,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: but some particularly vocal mainstream kind of historians and scientists
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: seem to claim to know absolute truth about the past.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: And that's just stupid. Like how can anyone know about
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: what happened a hundred thousand years ago or 200,000 years ago?
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: And it kind of gets, gets me a little bit
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: riled up because at the end of the day, none
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: of us know what happened back then. So I think
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: a lot more possibilities are, you know, possible than than
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: what many people appreciate and yeah.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: Did you ever see there was a video documentary back
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: in the day something about the mysteries of the sphinx
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: and um there was this archaeologist that was mocking uh
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: graham hancock's ideas and dr robert shock's ideas about the
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: timeline saying you know talking about things that existed pre-10
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: 000 years And he was saying, he was like laughing,
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: what evidence is there of any civilization from 10,000 years ago?
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: This was literally, I think, around the same time that
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: they discovered Gobekli Tepe. This guy was mocking it. I
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: think slightly thereafter they discovered Gobekli Tepe, which threw everything
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: into a tizzy because now you've got something that was
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: absolutely covered, they believe intentionally, somewhere in the neighborhood of 11,000
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: years ago.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think Gobekli Tepe is the biggest kind of
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: smoking gun, at least for the idea that civilization is
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: older and more complex than the traditional model suggests, because obviously,
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: as you say, it's like 12,000 years old and it's
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: massive megalithic pillars. I mean, you know about Gobekli Tepe,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: probably most people listening to this will know about Gobekli Tepe,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: but it's such a clear sign that sophisticated human culture
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: was present way earlier than the conventional timeline suggests and
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: i think that at least should throw a monkey wrench
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: into a lot of these people's ideas regarding human civilization
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: and when it began because clearly the toolkit for civilization
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: existed 12 000 years ago so how why couldn't it
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: have existed a little bit earlier than that and why
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: if it existed then did it then take another 6
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: 000 years for it to emerge in ancient suma which
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: is the kind of traditional thought to be the earliest
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: civilization so quebec li tepe is fascinating i love it
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: it's a really interesting site um I think it will
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: one day be classed as civilization. I'm almost certain that
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: when enough time passes, we'll kind of look at that.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: Because it's a whole culture, the whole Tashtapella culture. There's
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: like 14 sites, at least. And they all have this
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: kind of megalithic architecture. They all have shared symbolism. They
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: all are clearly connected. It's crazy how it's not defined
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: as anything other than hunter-gatherers. And even if you think
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: that hunter-gatherers built Gebekli Tepe, then... You need to massively
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: update the definition of what a hunter-gatherer is because clearly
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: they had surplus. They weren't just building these sites in
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: their spare time. And, yeah, it's a truly paradigm-shifting site. But,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, everyone kind of knows about Gobekli Tepe now.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: But not everyone. But also as spectacular as what they've
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: discovered so far is they have only unearthed 5%. of
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: it which is even more bizarre yeah because you've got
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: so much stuff that's underground you have no idea what's
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: on those pillars you know there's speculation that one of
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: the pillars from gobekli tepe that is unearthed is some
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: sort of a calendar of events and they believe that
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: it depicts some sort of a disaster Like that these, whatever,
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: how they're making these images to be associated with either
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: an impact or something, but there's a timeline that's inscribed
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: in these pillars.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's like a study that was written or a
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: paper that was written and they think it's the pillar 43,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: I think it is. It's kind of like a cosmic
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: calendar and it's like a, almost a prediction model of
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: an impact that could happen or already has happened. And
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: it's like a warning for the future. I mean, that
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: is still disputed, but I mean, there's been good research
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: that's done into that that suggests that's what it is.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: And it's certainly a site that has cosmic alignments and
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: has been built with the stars in mind, which is
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: something that we can say about so many ancient sites
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: around the world, which is another thing that isn't really
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: considered by, you know, quote unquote, mainstream archaeology, perhaps as
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: much as it should be. So yeah, it's a fascinating site.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: And I really think it displays a lot about how
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: human ingenuity and civilization, I mean, people get a bit
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: stuck with the word civilization because we have this very
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: narrow definition of what civilization is. And it's basically based
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: on the old model of Mesopotamia, which is ancient Sumer.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: And because that was the earliest known civilization for so long,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: we kind of constructed this whole idea about what a
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: civilization is purely based on Mesopotamia. But I don't see
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: why that has to be what civilization is because that
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: was just one civilization. And just because that was the
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: earliest one we'd found for a long time and still
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: is thought of as such, doesn't mean that that's the
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: only way that humanity can flourish because humans are so adaptable.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: We do so many different things and we're clever in
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: different ways. And we, you know, change to different environments.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: And I think that definition has really kept a lot
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: of people kind of boxed in when thinking about how
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: sophisticated human beings culture could flourish in different places, in
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: different environments and with different pressures. And I think that's
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: kind of forced people to not consider what other possibilities
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: are out there.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: I think it's even more fascinating if you consider the
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: fact that ancient Sumer and you know, that, that part
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: of the world from about 6,000 years ago is where
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: they're sort of hanging their hat saying that this is
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: the birthplace of civilization. But if you do have this
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: evidence of Gobekli Tepe and then we are talking about
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: some sort of an ancient civilization that lived 12,000 years ago,
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: like what happened? What happened? Like what was the gap
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: between that and then it took 6,000 years before they
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: started civilization back up again? Sort of a reimagining of civilization,
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: which makes you really– at least makes me really consider
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: the possibility of a cataclysm because if the people that survived,
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: whatever they would be, you know, I mean– they would
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: probably be living off the land. They'd probably be barely
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: getting by and barbaric for a long, long time. And
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: if it really took 6,000 years to kind of like
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: settle down again, that is fascinating to me. Yeah.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: And it all ties into this idea that we've had
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: that agriculture leads to civilization, but there's that bizarre thing
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: that agriculture appears in multiple different places at pretty much
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: the exact same time all over the world. And That's
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: never made sense to me because if agriculture was such
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: a kind of vital invention for civilization to flourish, then
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: why did no one invent it for, you know, 310,000 years.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: And then in South America, in Mesopotamia, in ancient China,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: and you could argue there's other different places that say
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: there's like South America and there's Central America. I mean,
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: you could argue that's potentially connected, but a lot of
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: people say it isn't. So how can agriculture, if it's
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: such an incredible invention, be invented by multiple people at
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: the same time, but no one else thought of it before.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense to me.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: It doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: they wouldn't figure out seeds. How do you not know
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: eventually that these seeds are dropping and then you see
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: seedlings that are coming out of the ground? That seems
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: pretty logical and an easy connection. And then you'd say, oh, well,
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: if we gather these seeds and go plant them over there,
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: you know, maybe we can get some fruit trees over here. Oh,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: look at that, it worked. Like, that doesn't... That seems
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: like you'd figure that out in one lifetime.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: I know, it's odd. But I think the idea is...
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: The idea always has been that it's because of the climate, right?
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: So because of the Holocene, which began around 12,000 years ago,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: as we came out of that and we had kind
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: of stable climate conditions that we still live in today,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: that's what enabled the invention of agriculture, right? But then
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: the question I always ask is, well, what about all
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: the other warm periods that have come in the past?
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: If.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: as the idea is that, you know, stable climate led
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: to agriculture, then why couldn't such a thing have happened
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: in the Eemian period 120,000 years ago? There's been four
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: distinct warm periods that have lasted for like over 10,000
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: years while modern humans have been around, at least. And
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: obviously these Morocco remains of Homo sapiens, it's unlikely they're
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: the earliest Homo sapiens that ever lived. They're just the
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: earliest we found. So we could be even older than that.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: So considering we've been through four distinct warm periods before
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: the Holocene. And if the argument is that the Holocene
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: was what led to the invention of agriculture due to
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: the stable climate, then why couldn't it have happened in
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: the earlier warm periods? That's the question I've always asked
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: myself and been fascinated by.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: And the real problem is there would be very little evidence,
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: if any. Yeah.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: So this is the preservation problem. And this is something
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: I talk about in my videos. So I kind of
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: always ask the question, like, what if a human culture
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: had flourished in the Eemian, for example, which was from
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: 130 to 115,000 years ago, what realistically would survive? Because
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: it's such a vast, vast length of time that it's
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: really unlikely, at least as far as I can tell,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: and obviously I'm not a scientist, I'm not like a,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: you know, a materialist, I'm not any kind of, I'm
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: just a guy, I'm not even a historian technically, but
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: as far as I can tell, it's extremely hard for
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: these for any materials, but even our modern materials in
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: our huge civilization that, you know, 8 billion people, industrial society,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: sending rockets to space, you know, all the crazy stuff
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: that we're doing, even us, if we disappear tomorrow, I
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: think it would be extremely unlikely that pretty much anything
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: would survive when you get up to these huge timescales
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: of like 100,000 years. And so I've been doing quite
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: a lot of, you know, research into this because I don't,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: I obviously don't want to, you know, get things wrong
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: and put falsehoods out there and mislead people I don't
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: want to look like a dickhead in front of like
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: millions of people or whatever so I've been trying to
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: like you know debunk myself or play devil's advocate to
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: myself on this point because you know that's the best
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: way to make your argument airtight and no one's really
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: out there debunking me I don't know if that's because
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: I'm right or because like no one knows me maybe
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: that would change after a show like this but I've
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: been really looking into the kind of degradation of modern
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: materials as much as I can and trying to work
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: out how much would survive from a civilization like ours
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: if we disappeared tomorrow in 100,000 years' time.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Right, like someplace like London or Manhattan. Yeah, yeah. What
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: would be left in 100,000 years?
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, of like an actual modern city. And the scary
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: truth is it's almost nothing.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: Really?
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: As far as I can tell.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: Cement buildings that would just deteriorate?
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: They would go like concrete would crack and you'd get
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: CO2 in there and freeze-thaw weathering. And over these huge
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: timescales of like 5,000 years, 10,000 years, they would just
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: crumble down into dust and be absolutely imperceptible.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Just 10,000 years?
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: I think so. Obviously these, I mean, I'm just doing
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: this off the top of my head. I haven't got
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: any notes in front of me or anything. But as
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: far as I could tell from my research, it's going
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: to be a few like 10,000 years, 20,000 years later.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: It's not going to get up to these timescales of 100,000 years.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: So if you do add in, if you think about
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: what Manhattan would look like in 100,000 years, it's almost nothing.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: I would say it was nothing, to be honest.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: Nothing. And it would just get overrun by trees again.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because there's just such an incredible amount of time that...
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: All these materials that we build with are just going
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: to corrode and they're going to, they're going to rust away.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: If they're metals, they're going to oxidize, they're going to
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: flake until they're just tiny little fragments that just disperse
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: in the sedimentary record. And they're just invisible to see.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: And same with concrete, same with even things like glass.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: I've heard a lot of people say that glass would
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: potentially survive because glass is a, you know, it's a
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: very durable material and glass would survive a long time,
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: but glass in the form of a human made recognizable
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: artifact is isn't going to survive in that form. It's
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: going to get crushed. It's going to break away into
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: tiny little nano fragments into silica grains that are just
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: invisible in the kind of archaeological record when you get
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: up to these huge levels of time. And yeah, I mean, there's,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: I would say almost nothing would survive that long. And again,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: with the caveat that I'm just some random dude who's
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: investigated this on the internet and researched this myself, not
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: a scientist. If anyone out there is a material scientist,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: I encourage them to reach out to me, but As
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: far as I can tell, there are very few things
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: that could possibly survive that long. I mean, we're pretty
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: crazy fucking apes. We do crazy shit. So things like
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: nuclear weapons, like we test nuclear weapons in the atmosphere.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: You could argue if we knew when to look and
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: what to look for, we could see traces of plutonium
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: in the atmosphere from our nuclear weapons testing, or you
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: could see our nuclear waste deposits. Or things like carved stone,
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: because stone obviously survives a very long time. Human carved stone,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: you'd be able to find that. But we do find that.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: We find stone tools. But just because ancient humans used
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: stone tools doesn't mean they didn't use anything else. It's
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: just stone is the most likely thing to survive. And
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: the crazy thing is, Joe, do you know how many
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: sites we have, Homo sapiens sites, from more than 100,000
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: years ago?
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: How many? Nine.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: We have nine sites, nine glimpses, nine snapshots into over 200,000
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: years of history. Nine moments in time. And we use
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: that to extrapolate out what every single human was doing.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: Nine globally.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: Nine globally, yeah.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: This episode is brought to you by Whoop. You probably
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: heard me talk about Whoop before, but if you hadn't,
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: here is the rundown. With Whoop, the goal isn't just
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: to live longer, it's to live better. Well, Whoop sent
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: me their latest tracker, the Whoop 5.0, and I love it.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: I love all the new features, especially the new battery.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: It lasts for over two weeks on a single charge,
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: so you never miss a beat. But there's one new
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: feature that's really, really exciting. Health Span is a totally
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: new feature on the Whoop app that shows how fast
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: your body is aging and if you skew younger or
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: older than your actual age, helping you slow your aging
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: down so you can keep doing what you love. It
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: pulls from nine metrics backed by science like sleep consistency,
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: heart rate zones, and VO2 max to give you a
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: personalized whoop age. Join whoop.com slash JRE and get a
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: free trial. That's join.whoop.com slash JRE for one month free
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: of whoop. Check it out. And where are they mostly? Africa.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: And so what do they find? Like, what is the evidence?
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: It's usually capes. And it's usually just, you know, remains
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: of fire pits and stone tools. And that's kind of it.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: And so we see that and we think, okay, they
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: just lived in caves and used stone tools.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: But it's nine sites, nine moments in time for 200,000 years.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: Well, the problem is there's people that essentially live like
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: that right now in some parts of the world, which
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: is really weird, right? Because we always want to think
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: about technology and advancement of civilization being sort of universal,
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: but it's really not. You know, there's people that are
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: living a subsistence lifestyle right now. There's people that are
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: uncontacted right now.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: At the same time as Elon Musk sending rockets to
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: Mars and shit.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Right. I mean, that's the weirdest ones is when you
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: see them get invaded in the Amazon. When you see
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: them contact these people and they're pointing bows and arrows
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: at helicopters. Yeah. And, you know, they're naked.
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: We're so adaptable. Humans can do so many different things.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: And as you say, right now we're sending rockets to
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: space and people are living in very traditional... And that
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: just because we find traditional ways of life in, I repeat,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: nine sites to cover 200,000 years, in my view, that's
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: just what we can see. That kind of points to
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: my point regarding what would possibly survive. Because if you
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: think of all the human lives, stories, cultures that have
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: potentially existed for our whole species existence, if we only
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: have nine little glimpses from, and to be fair, that
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: nine is enormous. You could say it's up to 15
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: because the some sites are debated, but either way, it's
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: a tiny, tiny, tiny amount of human, you know, signs
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: of human life. Just because in that fragment, in that snapshot,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: in that sliver, all we see is some humans with
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: stone tools in caves. Doesn't mean that nothing else was happening.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Well, a good piece of evidence to that, that would
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: point in that direction is Egypt because Egypt, even if
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: you accept the conventional timeline of Egypt, which is 2500
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: BC for the Great Pyramid, go look at the rest
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: of the world at 2500 BC. You don't see anything
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: like that. Nothing even close.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they were clearly, even if you kind of look
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: at the conventional model of history, the ancient Egyptians were
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: wildly ahead of everyone else.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: Everyone.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: It's just so weird.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: So weird.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: And the conventional model doesn't really give us any explanations
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: of how they were doing what they were doing.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: And they arrogantly dismiss any other explanations, which is really weird.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: When you're talking about these immense structures that are baffling. Yeah.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Absolutely baffling to anybody who's being honest.
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: What is your take on these Italian researchers that are
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: looking at the tomography and they're looking at these things
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: that they believe are underneath the Great Pyramid and some
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: other structures in Egypt?
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: What's it called?
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Like SARS, TOPLER. I mean, I don't know. I'm always
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: a little bit suspicious when you make sensationalist claims with
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: new technology. And that doesn't mean it's wrong. Yeah, you
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: have to.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: Be suspicious because it's bonkers. It's crazy. What they're saying
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: is two kilometers deep underneath the Great Pyramid, there's structures.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: And there's hundreds of meters of these pylons, these pillars
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: that are in uniform positions with some sort of a
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: coil wrapped around them. What is that? Is that real?
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: And they reproduce it in multiple different scans, but I
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: don't know what they're seeing. I don't understand the technology.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: I don't understand where the errors could be. What could
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: possibly cause it to glitch like that?
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I would love it
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: to be true, obviously, because, you know.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: I would love it.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine?
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: That's the problem. The problem is the same problem that
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: I have with UFOs and everything else.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: You want it to be true.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: A hundred percent. So it really clouds my judgment. And
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: then I have to get my, you know, analytical mind
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: to say, shut up.
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Let's look at this honestly.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: But I mean, I think there's definitely something below the
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: Giza plateau. Like that's always been written about in ancient
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: sources and These kind of scans and then people kind of...
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: You have stories of people going down into labyrinths that
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: aren't accepted by Egyptology. And there's definitely massive mystery surrounding
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Giza and the construction of the pyramids and what could
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: potentially be below the pyramids. And this kind of new
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: pyramid scan project has the potential, I think, to make
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: big progress in understanding what is below Giza.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: But I don't know.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Until there's better data out there, I'm.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Not going to.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: jump to any conclusions and declare that this is like
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: evidence of, you know, a lost advanced technology civilization or.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: Anything like that. No, you can't. But I am so
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: excited about just the possibility that they're right. Because if
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: they are right, that's the greatest monkey wrench into history
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: that's ever existed. Because explain away that. with ancient people
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: with stone tools or copper. Explain that away.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: They'd probably try me because it already doesn't make sense,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: their explanation for the construction of the pyramids being wooden
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: sledges and stone chisels or whatever they say. It already
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. It's already so ridiculous that I wouldn't
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: even be surprised if they tried to explain away these
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: massive coffins.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: Well, it'll discredit them because the problem is if it
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: does indicate that the pyramid is something other than a tomb,
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: There's not, I don't even see any evidence that, The
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Great Pyramid at Giza, I mean, what's the evidence that
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: that was a tomb? I mean, I don't think they've
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: ever found a body in there.
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: No.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: It's just a chamber which they've called the King's Chamber.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not an expert in ancient Egypt by
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: any respect, but it's always baffled me that they're so
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: determined that the pyramids are tombs just because some later
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: pyramids have had, you know, mummies and pharaohs and sarcophagi
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: found inside them, but.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: That doesn't mean anything. And that doesn't mean that they
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: built it. That also could mean that the pharaoh decided
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: that it was his and wanted to be buried inside
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: of it. And it had existed for thousands of years
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: before they ever even got there.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: And you find bodies in, like, you know, buildings today.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: And that doesn't mean the purpose of that building was
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: to be a tomb.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: It's just someone's buried there. It's a weird assumption.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: It's a very weird assumption. And did you ever read
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: any Christopher– Christopher Dunn, yeah. Christopher Dunn's work. I know
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: a bit.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: I haven't read his book, but I know a bit
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: about it. And it's interesting. I mean, he's like a
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: serious guy, isn't he? He's an engineer.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: And he has quite serious theories that.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: He thinks it's a power plant.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which would be crazy, wouldn't it?
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Especially if you add into that the Graham Hancock's ideas
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: and some of these other people's ideas that perhaps some
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: of these structures are far older.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: Well, the kind of Orion correlation.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: And the Sphinx... Also the fact that the deeper you
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: go into the sand, the more sophisticated the building techniques are. Yeah.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: That gets weird. Like larger stones. Like what happened?
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: The whole of like ancient Egypt and the Sahara Desert
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: in general just doesn't make sense to me because when
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: you look at the Sahara Desert and the fact that
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: it was green for 9,000 years and then it stopped
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: being green at precisely the time that we're told ancient
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Egypt emerged. That doesn't make sense. That defies how civilization works.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Why would a civilization only emerge after the climate got worse?
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: That doesn't make sense at all.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: And so little research done in sub-Saharan Africa where they've
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: actually gone into the ground and done like large scale
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: research of these immense areas.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Nothing, nothing. The Sahara Desert is vast and obviously covered
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: in sand and extremely hot, extremely difficult to survey, politically unstable.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: And there's basically been no archeological work done across the whole,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: and Sahara desert is massive. It's like the whole of
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: North Africa, right down to, I mean, it's massive.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: You could fit the United States in there.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: You could fit anything in there, like a whole preceding
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: civilization for 9,000 years leading up to ancient Egypt. It's
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: the perfect place. It's right by Mesopotamia. It's right by Egypt.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: And yet we have this blank spot for the 9,000
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: years before the development of civilization, which is kind of
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: also the gap between, I mean, it's a little bit
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: less than this, but the gap between Quebec-Litepe and the
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: birth of civilization. We have this huge area, which would
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: have been perfect for civilization, full of rivers, lakes, grasslands,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: perfect climate. And it's just missing.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Also abundant resources where they could Establish a stable civilization
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: because they had so much food and and they weren't
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: being attacked So they could kind of set up shop
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: and figure some things out. Yeah over a long period
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: of time.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so my theory is that things were happening in
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: the Sahara Desert when it was green in the green
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Sahara for those 9,000 years and then because it was
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: really quick That's what I don't think people realize is
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: that when the Sahara Desert turned from you know green
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: lush paradise whatever you want to call it to a
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: desert it was like a few centuries and It's called
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: rapid desertification. And it flipped, not overnight, obviously, but in
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: a few centuries compared to 9,000 years, it's a rapid change.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: And for any kind of culture that was living there,
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: you wouldn't have noticed it straight away. But in 50 years,
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: you'd be like, fuck, it's getting a bit hot here.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean? Like, shit is going on.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: And I think maybe people migrated to the last stretch
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: of green that was still available to them, which was
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: the Nile River. And then the kind of survivors or
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: the migratory populations developed around the Nile River and And
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: using the kind of experience and knowledge that they had
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: from their lives and the kind of history of their
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: cultures in the Green Sahara period, that is what led
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: to ancient Egypt. I mean, that's just a theory.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: Well, it's also just an assumption that ancient Egypt didn't
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: exist alongside that.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: Or even previous to that, which is also possible, especially
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: when you consider what Robert Chalk thinks about the erosion,
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: the water erosion, the Temple of the Sphinx.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they kind of... explanation away of that also never
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: made sense to me that it's wind and sand because
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: when you see pictures of the Sphinx, even from when
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: they kind of found it in Napoleonic times, it's buried
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: in sand. And there's records from the Egyptians themselves who
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: excavated it effectively because it was covered in sand. So
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: if it quickly gets covered in sand, how could it
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: be eroded by wind and sand if it doesn't take
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: very long for it to kind of get filled up
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: with sand? Then how does wind and sand erosion... even
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: count i've never seen anyone kind of explain that.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: Away well it's the walls that are the most fascinating
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: to me because the the deep fissures that clearly look
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: like rainfall it looks like something that water does over
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: thousands of years.
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah you know and when you those whales that were
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: the whale the valley of the whales yeah just about
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: i don't know how many miles south but it's south
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: of cairo.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: That's bonkers too that's crazy they find whales hundreds of
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: whales in the desert That's so crazy. Look at that image.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: That's so nuts. That is so nuts.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: Some of them had teeth and toes.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: So crazy. So crazy. And then it makes you wonder,
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: how did those bones survive? Why are they there? How
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: quickly did they die? How quickly did they get covered
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: up by sediment that they could find them all these
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: years later? Because that's the weird thing about fossils and
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: bones in general. is that most of them you're never
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: going to find because they get eaten, they deteriorate, they're gone.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: It's very difficult to make a fossil. When you think
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: about our quote-unquote fossil record, it's really weird because it's
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: hard to make a fossil. So we're dealing with a
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: very small amount of beings that get turned into a fossil,
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: and that is what we're using as our understanding of life.
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: It's weird.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: It is weird.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: Because it's so limited.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure. When was the... Do you know when
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: the Sahara was covered in water? I'm not even sure
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: when that was. I mean, some people say that there's
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: like a mass flood during the kind of Younger Dryas period,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: which I think is.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: I think they're talking about millions of years ago for
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: these bones. How old are these whale bones supposed to be?
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: But I think millions of years ago, it's assumed that
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: it was completely underwater, right? So are we talking like
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: Pangea times? Like, what are we talking about?
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: But even... Not too long ago, like, you know, kind
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: of 12,000 years ago or whatever, they had these massive
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: river systems, like the Tamarasset River System.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: Here it is.
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: 40 million years old.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: 40 million years old.
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: But I don't know about the whales.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: Primitive whales.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: Primitive whales documenting, how do you say that word? Cetacean?
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: How do you say that word? Cetacean transition? Is that
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: how they say it?
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: Cetacean transition to marine life, uh, Cyrenians and reptiles as
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: well as shark teeth from the Gennaham Formation 40 to
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: 41 million years ago. The strata in, I don't want
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: to say that either, Wad Al-Hitan belongs to middle Eocene
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: epoch and it contains extensive vertebrae fossils within a 200
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: kilometer area. Fossils are present in high numbers and often
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: show excellent quality of preservation. The most conspicuous fossils are skeletons.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: And bones of whales and sea cows.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: What's a sea cow?
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: What's a manatee?
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: You ever see the precursor to whales, like where whales
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: came from?
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: No, where did they come from?
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: It was an ancient animal that was almost like a
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: hooved wolf.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: What, sea animal?
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: No, you mean it was a land animal. That's why
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: they breed air.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: Of course, they're mammals, aren't they?
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: That's weird.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: It's super weird. It's super weird. It was some animal
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: that supposedly lived on land and it was real freaky looking,
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: almost kind of like dog-like.
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: And that thing eventually said, I just like swimming.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go back into the sea.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: And then one day it said, I'm never going back
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: to the land. It's filled with assholes. I'm just going
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: to live out here in the ocean. All you have
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: to contend with is sharks.
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: This article calls it the God of Death whale.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Wow, that's what it looked like. That's what it looked like.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: But there's some images of it on land, some depictions. Yeah,
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: that's what it looked like. That freaky thing was what
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: whales came from. That thing walked around the ground and
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: then eventually said, eh.
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: If it was 40 million years ago, is that what
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: those skeletons are then? Maybe.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Hmm. Interesting. Some of them maybe, right? Because they do
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: know that it was when whales walked in Egypt. Wow.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: I was watching, I think, I don't remember whose podcast
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: it was. I wish I could remember. But they were
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: talking to some guy that found definitive evidence of dinosaurs
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: in Egypt. So if you go back far enough, there
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: were dinosaurs living in that part of the world as well.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: What's that one image you just saw right there with
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: the mouth open? Yeah, that one. That's crazy looking. Prehistoric
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: whale ancestor. Look at that thing. Whoa. That's crazy.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: Here's the sea cows.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: What?
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: This image says a prehistoric sea cow was killed by
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: a prehistoric croc.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: And eaten by a tiger shark.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Boy. Life is hard where there's no doors.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: That's the problem with the ocean. There's no doors. There's
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: nowhere to hide. So it's just constant chaos. It is
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: just constant things eating things in this 3D space. Where
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: they can go up and down and side to side.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: That's just nature, isn't it, man? Everyone's just killing everything else.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: Yes. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: Summer is here, and you can now get almost anything
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: What do I mean by almost? Well, you can't get
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: a well-groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parmesan
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: delivered a day in the sun.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: No.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: A bottle of rum? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: you that for almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: Order now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: for details. We made it. But we figured out doors.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: We did. We figured out walls and doors and that
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: changed the game.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: But when did we do that, Joe?
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: That's the question. That is the question.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: Because a lot of people would claim to think and
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: the kind of consensus always is that we didn't do
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: that until 12,000 years ago. We didn't settle down and
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: form permanent communities until the Neolithic revolution. And I think
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: that's one of the major paradigms, if you like, that
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: we have regarding our past that simply doesn't make sense
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: in light of new evidence.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: What is that evidence that they found of wood construction
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: from far longer than they thought?
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the Colombo structure. And this is something
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: I talk about a lot in my videos because I
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: think it's crazy find and I don't understand why it's
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: not kicking up more of a fuss. Like if I'm
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: the guy that has to kick up the fuss about it,
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: then I'll be that guy because basically the idea has
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: always been that humans were nomadic hunter gatherers that move
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: with the seasons and lived in caves or just kind
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: of walked around for all of our history until the
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: Neolithic revolution, the invention of agriculture 12,000 years ago. And
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: no earlier than that, did we ever settle down and
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: live in permanent settlements. But the Colombo structure was something
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: they found a few years ago in modern day Zambia.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: And what it is, is these pieces of wood. And
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: I'll get to the point about why this wood has
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: survived in a minute, because obviously, you know, wood surviving
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: this long is crazy. But there you go.
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: So the Colombo structure is these pieces of wood that
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: have been joined together deliberately, cut in notches and connected together,
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: tapered and secured at right angles. And they think it
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: was either a kind of raised walkway, like a kind
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: of raised platform, or a house, a dwelling, a hut,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: some kind of structure. And why this is so powerful?
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: shifting is because not only does this kind of scream
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: that humans potentially lived in permanent settlement. Sorry, I haven't
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: even said this. This is 476,000 years old. So this
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: predates Homo sapiens. Allegedly.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: Allegedly. Allegedly.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: As in, what do you mean allegedly?
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: Because we recently found out that they live 300,000 years ago.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, it could have been us. But what
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: they attribute it to is Homo heidelbergensis, who's our last
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: common ancestor with Neanderthals. So they're kind of the human
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: species that came before Homo sapiens. So I guess you're right.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: It could have been Homo sapiens, and we're just not
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: sure how.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: Old we are.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: But it's kind of attributed to Homo heidelbergensis. And the
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: only reason this structure survived at all is because pretty
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: soon after its construction, it must have fallen into a bog.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: And then that bog kind of got solidified over by
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: the sun. And then it was preserved in waterlogged sediment,
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: which protected it from decay for almost half a million
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: years until it was discovered by us recently.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: How recent?
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: I think about five years ago, maybe. Was it 2019
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: or something? I'm not 100% sure. But it's crazy. So
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: another monkey wrench.
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: I would say it's a massive monkey wrench because not
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: only does it kind of really dispute this idea that
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: we didn't settle down until, you know, 12,000 years ago
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: with the Neolithic Revolution. Because, I mean, it's a structure.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, and it's just because it's so unlikely, it's
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: so unbelievable that this would have survived. But that kind
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: of suggests that it's not the only one. There could
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: have been loads of these, like structures everywhere.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: But as you said, Manhattan.
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't live, wouldn't exist in 100,000 years. So this is 476,000 years. Yeah,
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: it's ridiculous. And it's just wood, which is less durable
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: than all the other things that we were talking about.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and obviously people may be saying, well, look, clearly
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: things survive. But this is an extreme edge case scenario
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: where it's like so unbelievably unlikely that this wooden structure
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: would kind of sink into a bog and then that
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: bog be, you know, Solidified over and then it would
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: stay in that preserved like it's.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: A and that they would find it.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: And then they would they would find it exactly because
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: 476 thousand years near the sediment.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly because we don't dig that far and look
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: for anything sophisticated because we think you know Nothing happened
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: back then and then you find this and it really
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: suggests that humans were living in much more complex Societies
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: and they were I mean they the fact that they
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: had the cognitive capacity to plan structurally engineer and build
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: a structure and completely flies in the face of what
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: we've always thought about ancient humans. Because we've always had
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: this idea that there's been this very popular idea in
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: kind of mainstream historical thought that humans only got smart
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: around 50 to 60,000 years ago. And that's just homo sapiens.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: We've always thought that other human species never got smart,
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: never achieved what we call behavioral modernity. And this has
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: always been the kind of idea that we went through
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: this cognitive revolution around 50 to 60,000 thousand years ago
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: and the the most obvious proponent of how entrenched this
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: is in kind of academic thought is have you ever
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: read the book sapiens yes yeah yeah by yuvono harari
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: it's an extremely popular book it sold something like 60
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: million copies worldwide by far the most popular book about
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: prehistory and you know the story of homo sapiens ever
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: written and sapiens didn't kind of do anything new it
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: didn't um i think harari himself would admit this it
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: it didn't um it didn't It kind of just collected
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: the consensus of academia and presented it in a nice,
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: digestible way to the kind of layman audience. But he
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: took this idea that's always been present in academia regarding
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: human intelligence, which is that while we've been around for
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: quite a long time, we didn't achieve behavioral modernity until 50,000
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: to 60,000 years ago. And that's when we started apparently
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: displaying complex cognitive traits like abstract thinking and planning and
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: burying our dead. Art.
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: Art. Yeah, exactly.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: And complex language and things like that. But this just
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: completely flies in the face of that, because if we
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: had the capability to plan, construct and engineer a structure 476,000
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: years ago, that means, you know, mainstream anthropology was off
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: by over 400,000 years regarding the advent of intelligence and
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: the advent of permanent living. And that's And, I mean,
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: that's quite the error. 400,000 years.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: So that kind of suggests they could be off by
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: similar margins about other developmental claims because, I don't know,
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: that's a big, big error.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: Well, it's also when you think about the history of
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: the Earth, there are times that we know that there was, like,
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: there's great bottlenecks that occurred because of some sort of
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: a massive natural catastrophe, like the Toba volcano.
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: Right, the Toba volcano, which was 70,000 years ago? Was
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: that what it was? Brought people down to a few
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: thousand survivors on Earth.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's loads of these bottlenecks. And you look
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: at our kind of genetic history. And I mean, does
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: that suggest that something happened?
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: Right. Well, you're thinking about what evidence there is. And
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: then you think about, well, there's no one left except
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: a few thousand people 70,000 years ago. So it's possible that...
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: That there's been this rise of some sort of a
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: civilization and then massive catastrophe and a rebuilding. Just like
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: if we're talking about the Younger Dryas, which is in
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: this time period we're talking about, when you're dealing with 476,000
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: years ago. Fairly recent, right? Very recent. Right. And think
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: about the 6,000 years it took for civilization to reemerge
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: from that. Now you think of Toba. And you knocked
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: down the entire population of the planet to... What did
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: they think it was? See if you can find out
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: what the number was. I think it was very low.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: I think it was below 3,000 people on Earth.
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: On Earth. Yeah, just from one natural disaster. 3,000 people.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: One massive super volcano, which is, by the way, just
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: like Yellowstone.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah. There's lots. It could all happen again.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: That motherfucker is bubbling, too. Here it is. Potentially... Almost
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: all of humanity, leaving around 3,000 to 10,000 humans left
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: on the planet.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: That's crazy.
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: And supervolcano isn't the only thing. There's so many others.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: What time period is this, Jeremy? 74,000 years ago.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: So that's quite recent.
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: In terms of our story.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: Well, in terms of your theory that I thought was
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: one of the most interesting ones that you brought up
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: in your videos, you were talking about how anatomical humans,
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: just based on what we've agreed to, based on what
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: we found 300,000 years, like what are the possibilities that
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: there have been civilizations that emerged and were destroyed and
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: then there's no evidence of them?
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because I mean, aside from the preservation problem, which
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: we kind of already talked about when you get up
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: to these massive timescales, you know, very little is going
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: to survive, especially when you think about what early humans
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: were likely building with.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: Like it's probably the things they could find in their environment,
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: like wood, hide, plant remains.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: You'd have nothing left. Just look at what we know
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: about the Amazon now because of LIDAR and because of,
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: you know, what is his name? Percy Fawcett. Because these
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: people that made these journeys down there looking for these
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: complex civilizations that at one point in time, now we
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: know did exist there. And just a hundred years later,
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: they called those people liars because they went back to
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: the same place and there was nothing left.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: That's always been, you know, thought of as myth or
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: pseudoscience that it's kind of the most popular myth. idea
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: of lost civilizations with civilizations of the Amazon and it
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: was always dismissed.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: Well, here's what's really crazy. Have you seen Detroit? Have
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: you seen the evidence of Detroit where trees are going
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: through houses?
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: And that's like 50 years less. Or if you look
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: at Chernobyl, the kind of exclusion zone where no one lives,
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: it's already like trees everywhere and like nature is already
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: taking root after less than half a century. Yeah.
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: Bizarre.
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: And then you, a hundred thousand years.
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: Seriously, what's going to be left?
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: Very, very little. And then if you go 200,000 years,
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, if anatomically modern humans, if we've discovered them
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: at 300,000 years, what if somebody digs one up that's
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: 2 million years old? Then what do you do? Then
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: you got to go, oh boy. Oh boy. And then
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: there's also this thought that Neanderthals were stupid. They're kind
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: of abandoning that now too. They're thinking they had language,
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: they had tools, they had society.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: They definitely did. There's so much evidence. And this kind
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: of puts into the cognitive revolution argument, which is, you know,
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: that we were the only smart species. Like our name
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: that we gave ourselves, homo sapiens, literally means smart man.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: It's always been the idea that we're the smartest humans
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: and that's why we won. To be fair, we did win.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: We did win.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: Win, whatever you want to call it.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: We might just be the most evil.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we might be the most evil. Or we just
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: might be the luckiest ones, you know?
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: Well, we're the weakest, so we probably had to be evil.
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: That's true. We had to figure out weapons that would
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: be able to defeat the Neanderthals, who had, by the way,
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: larger brain capacities.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: I think they were just as intelligent as us, to
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: be honest.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: That's nuts.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, that's a claim that probably some people
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: would dispute, but I think there's lots of evidence that
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: they were very smart.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: Well, necessity is the mother of invention, right? And if you're...
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: physically weaker than these other things that are as intelligent
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: as you and far stronger. Like you gotta, you gotta
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: get devious. You gotta figure some stuff out.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: But like, did we even, I mean, either, I mean,
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: maybe they got wiped out by something like disease or
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: did they even get wiped out? Because if you even
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: look at the DNA of non-African humans, it's something like
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: 20% in some populations is Neanderthal. So they're kind.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: Of still here. Well, they just sort of interbred. Yeah.
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: Which is also weird because most species can't breed with
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: other species.
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: Just, you know.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: But we're very, I mean, we're very closely related to Neanderthals.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's weird. The whole history of humans is weird.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: And for academics to deny this possibility to me seems
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: so short-sighted.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: It will change.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: I think we're on the brink of quite a. massive
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: shift in our perspective regarding prehistory.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: I think so too. And I think it has to
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: happen where, I don't mean to say this to be cruel,
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: but the old people have to die.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: It's that quote, isn't it? Science advances one funeral at
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: a time. I hope it doesn't take that long though,
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: to be honest. I hope it's just in the next
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: few years.
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: Well, the good thing is a lot of scientists don't
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: take care of themselves. Which is also weird when you
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: see super intelligent people that are obese and eat terrible food.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: Or health experts that are such. Yes.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: Air quote health experts, not real ones. But it is,
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: to me, a great disservice. And one of the things
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: that I find very promising is that a lot of
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: young academics are embracing a lot of alternative ideas, whether
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: quietly or whether they're doing it publicly. Yeah.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: Well, I think the advent of the Internet. And, you know,
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: shows like this or the medium of podcasting has really
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: kind of democratized the access to information and allowed people
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: with theories that potentially wouldn't have been able to get
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: out there in the pre-internet age where they were kind of,
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: you had to go through a kind of academic institution
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: to get a theory heard or debated. Now, anyone can
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: say anything for better or worse, and that can, you know,
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: reach millions of people. And then if it's an idea
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: that's popular, then it can kind of be in the
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: public I, and then it can be debated properly. And
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: I think that's only a good thing. Obviously there are
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: negative aspects to that, but I think that will increase.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: You know, ideas regarding prehistory, for example, I think it
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: will increase the rate in which these things will get
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: accepted because once the evidence is out there, and once
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: you start talking about the Colombo structure, for example, and
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: how it completely flies in the face of both these
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: paradigms regarding permanent living and human intelligence. It's out there now.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: People can look it up and people can see that
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: this is completely kind of opposed to what we've always
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: been taught regarding prehistory.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: And isn't it kind of arrogant to assume that they
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: know who built it, too? That's weird, too, because they're
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: basing it on this assumption that human beings didn't exist
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: back then, at least Homo sapiens didn't exist back then,
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: which is also being challenged over and over and over again.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the fact they base it on Heidelbergensis is literally
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: just because we found some Heidelbergensis remains like 200 kilometers away.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: And they're like, okay, well, it's Heidelbergensis. I mean, it
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: could have been, to be fair.
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: It could have been. But I mean, right now, there's
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: people that are living in Africa and 200 kilometers away
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: from them are apes. So if one day they found
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: structures in the future and said, oh, these are made
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: by chimpanzees, that's kind of crazy. Yeah, it's kind of crazy.
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's the thing about history is it's all
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: based on massive assumptions. It's not like a hard science.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: It's interpreting evidence and that's fine like that's how we
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: do it but sure that's why i don't.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: It's the only way to do it right now it's
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: the only.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: Way to do it so i don't get why people
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: make these definitive conclusions and then don't allow anybody to
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: kind of speculate or hypothesize about anything.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: Else it's gatekeeping yeah It's gatekeeping. It's academic gatekeeping. It's
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: also these people that have been teaching this one thing
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: forever being threatened by the fact they were wrong. The
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: last thing an academic wants to hear is like, you
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: wrote this book, this stupid book, this book misled people
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: for decades. You were so wrong. Like they will fight
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: it with every ounce of their being because it's essentially
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: their identity. Their identity is being the gatekeeper of their
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: understanding of human history.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they've built a whole career around it and they've,
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: you know, as you say, it's their identity. They've been
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: the knowledge, the keeper of knowledge on a particular subject.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: But it's gross because it's ours. It's the whole planet.
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: It's all the human beings. It's like, do you have
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: a few nerds who you wouldn't want to hang out
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: with in real life? And these are the guys that
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: are telling us we can't explore these things? And those
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: are the people that are attacking Graham Hancock with every
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: possible insult and calling it the most dangerous show on television.
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: But it's also, it's so revealing because it's so obvious
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: that if you watch the show, you're like, wait, this
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: is the most dangerous show on TV?
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: Ancient Apocalypse.
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Like, how is that dangerous? He's like, just talking
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: about these bizarre structures that exist that seem to defy
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: our modern understanding of how things are built. Yeah.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: And when I, I mean, I don't agree with absolutely
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: everything Graham Hancock says, but when I look at you know,
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: these ideas of, you know, human intelligence potentially stretching back 500,000
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: years as displayed by the Colombo structure or permanent living.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: And I would argue that it could go back a
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: lot further than that. So when you look at, when
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: you kind of take into account that these abilities could
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: have stretched back half a million years, when I then
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: look at someone like Graham's work, it seems so plausible.
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: I don't see why it's seen as so outrageous that,
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: because 12,000 years ago, which is kind of when he
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: proposes there could have been a, You know, a sophisticated
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: civilization that was potentially wiped out by a cataclysm. When
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: you look at that from the perspective of, oh, yeah,
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: we've been intelligent for half a million years, it doesn't
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: seem very– it seems very plausible to me.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: Not only that, it's 450,000 years after the first structure now.
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: But no one's even, no one's talking about this.
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: That's what's weird, is that no one's talking about that.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: It's just me.
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: As far as I can tell. It's like those academics
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: as well that found it.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: To be fair, the guy that found it, the archaeologist
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: that found it, said that he never could have imagined
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: that pre-Homo sapien, and again, it might not be pre-Homo sapien,
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: it could be Homo sapien, but he said it's completely
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: paradigm shifting that they had the capacity to plan and
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: build something like this. But again... There's no fuss about it.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: It's just a paper was written and it was put
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: out there. And then that's it.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: Well, these things take time. I guess so. Yeah. I mean,
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: more of these conversations and more people have to understand
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: that these things are being discovered and that we are
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: kind of confused about so many things about human history.
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: And we're being told that, no, there's people at the
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: universities that have all the answers and that it's literally
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: not possible that they're telling the truth. It's not possible.
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: And that's why I get so excited about the structures
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: under the pyramid. Because it's a gigantic fuck you to
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: all those people. It would be. It would be the
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: most gigantic fuck you of all time. If they found
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: out that those scans are accurate and there's these pillars
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: that are wrapped in coils that go down like hundreds
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: of meters. And then below them, there's additional structures and
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: the whole.
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: I think it's all connected as well.
• 56:00
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: Which is like if Christopher Dunn is correct about it
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: being some sort of a power plant and that reveals
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: like how the thing worked and functioned. That's way more
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: advanced than us. Like what is that?
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: In some ways, they already are. I mean, we can't
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: explain how they did it, even based on a kind
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: of conventional model of history.
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: I know, and we lie. I've talked to so many people. Like,
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: when I had Zawi Hawass here, and he's explaining to me.
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: National project.
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: It was the national project. They're like, oh, that'll fix it.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: We should make our national project to breathe underwater and
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: fly through the air. Like, we should make that our
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: national project, to go to other planets and live there
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: in case Earth gets blown up. What are you talking about, man?
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: What the fuck are you talking about?
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they just don't want it. And it does kind
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: of make me worry. I don't really delve into the
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: kind of conspiracy side of things because, I mean, I
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: just try to stay kind of based in.
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: Not me. I go right in.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, I do in my own time and stuff.
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, in my own head and stuff. But in
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: terms of like my videos.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: What one do you dive into in your own head
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: the most?
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: I sometimes combine the UFO one with the ancient civilization one.
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: I do too.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: And I think what happens if, you know, a civilization
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: from a million years ago got so advanced that we
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: can't see them and then... that's what the UFO thing is.
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: It's just someone from this earth that doesn't really need
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: the space anymore and they're just watching us.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: Sometimes I think about that. But obviously I don't talk
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: about that in my videos because I don't need to
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: give anyone any more ammunition to send for me.
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: Well, there's also the genetic engineering one.
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: Oh, you mean like the.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like why humans are so different than everything else
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: in the first place. Like, that's weird. The doubling of
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: the human brain size over a period of two million
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: years is really weird.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: What does that refer to? Is that from Habilis to... Erectus?
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Let's Google it.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: I've heard people say that, and I've always thought, I
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: guess that must be from Homo habilis to Homo erectus
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: from just.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: Over a million years ago. It's just an immense leap
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: that is, like Terence McKenna used to say, it would
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: be bizarre if it was a liver of an otter
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: that doubled over a period of that amount of time.
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: But the fact that it's the very organ that allows
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: us to contemplate and to understand human existence in the
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: first place, and that that organ doubled over a period
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: of two million years? Like, what happened? Yeah. He's got
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: the wackiest theory because he thinks it's psilocybin mushrooms.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: I think there could be something to that. I mean, because,
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: you know, ancient cultures have always used psychedelic substances, and
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: basically all the way up until Western society kind of
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: took hold, it's always been an integral part of human
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: culture and human society. And then us in our modern
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: world have decided to outlaw that. And I think that's
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: a tragic mistake, to be honest with you.
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: And I think history will reveal that one day. And
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: I think that is one of the, also one of
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: the good things about discussions that are happening on the
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: internet that are kind of unchecked and untethered by academia
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: so you could talk about these things. Bigger blatant brains.
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: Onion website says it's actually tripled over the time we've
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: tracked it slow increase from six to two million but
• 59:13
  Speaker 3: a larger increase 800 to 200 thousand years ago That's
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: when the aliens landed.
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: So I didn't even buy that, though, because Heidelbergensis have
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: the same cranial capacity as us, and they go back 900,000 years.
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: Another thing I saw before.
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: But maybe that's Erexus they're talking about.
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: Brains don't fossilize. They deteriorate, leaving a cavity.
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: Inside the brain case.
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: That's part of how they know some of this info.
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: Sometimes sediments fill the cavity. Harmony and natural endocast scientists
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: also make artificial endocasts to study like the ones above. Fascinating. Fascinating.
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're a weird creature.
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: Well, did you say it's 2017 that they discovered modern
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: humans 300,000 years ago?
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: I think so, yeah.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: And where was that?
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: It's in Morocco.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: So that's Morocco, right? You said that. So imagine if
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: they found something similar in China.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: Well, that would fuck everything up because of the Africa thing.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: That would really fuck everything up. I mean, it could happen.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: Well, it wouldn't really even fuck it up. It would
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: just push it back.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: I guess so, yeah. But we're not even supposed to
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: have left Africa until... this time of the cognitive revolution.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: And that's always been the, one of the points like, oh, look,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: we got smart. We left Africa 60,000 years ago, but
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: that's never made sense to me either because Homo erectus
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: managed to migrate out of Africa and colonize loads of
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: Asia and parts of Europe over a million years ago.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: And if they're supposedly, you know, inferior to us, then
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: how can they make this massive leap? And Hadelbergensis did
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: it 600,000 years ago. And if they're supposedly inferior to us,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: how come they did this? And So, I mean, I
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: don't know. I try not to delve into the out
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: of Africa thing because it's, I don't know, it gets
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: a little bit controversial sometimes.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: It does. Well, it gets controversial when you bring in
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: aliens too because aliens become racist. It becomes racist because
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: now you're not accrediting the Africans to building the pyramids.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: You know, which is really fascinating. That's never made sense
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: to me, that, because it clearly wasn't white people.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: That built the pyramids. Well, I watched this very bizarre
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: discussion between some guy that was trying to claim that
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: it wasn't Africans that built the pyramids, that it was
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: white people that built the pyramids. So- There are people
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: that have this sort of racist idea of the construction
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: of the pyramids. But you can't attach that to everyone
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: who's speculating about the construction because it's too– the things
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: are too weird. It's too weird. And let's assume that
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: it was Africans that built the pyramids. But if we
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: are assuming that, like how were they so much smarter
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: than everyone alive today? How were they so much smarter?
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: Let's say it's 4,500 years ago. How were they so
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: much smarter? What was going on? Like what happened? Did
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: they get visited by aliens? Did they discover something that
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: allowed their understanding of physics to be just so much
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: greater than everybody else who's ever lived? Like what did
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: they discover? Like what were they encountering? What were they consuming?
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: What were they doing? What was– what were they teaching
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: each other where, you know, we lost so much in
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: the burning of the library of Alexandria, right?
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: That's, that's, it's quite sad really, isn't it? To be honest,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: like there would have been a lot in, I'm not
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: sure a hundred percent what happened with that. I'm not
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: sure if it was one burning or several burns. Yeah.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: But it's clearly a lot was lost.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: But then, then the question is like, what did they
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: even know? Like, what if it's older than that? Like,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: what if all that stuff, what if, you know, this
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: is one of the things that Zawi Hawass was, uh,
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: very reluctant to, he's like, what is this? I was
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: talking about the king's list that goes back 30,000 years.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: What if that's accurate?
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the Sumerian one does too.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It gets real squirrely when you only want to
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: accept some parts of history.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: And that ties into the green Sahara thing that I
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: was talking about. They have king lists that go back
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: this far. And yeah, we say that some of them
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: are myth. And to be fair, they have kings that
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: reign for like a thousand years, which It's a bit weird.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: It's a bit weird.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: Probably not. I mean, unless you're talking some kind of
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: alien thing, then that probably wasn't human. But that might
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: just be because it would have been a long time
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: ago for them, too, when they were writing these king lists.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: But it doesn't mean that their civilization only started with
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: the first dynasty. What we've decided is the line between
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: myth and fact, because that's a modern interpretation after the fact.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: They never made such distinction.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And this idea that they lived a thousand years. Well,
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: have you ever read the North Korea depictions of Kim
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: Jong-un's first day playing golf? Yeah, it's propaganda.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, he made like nine holes in one. He
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: was the greatest golfer of all time.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? So it's like you're writing
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: about kings. He lived a thousand years. Fire came from
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: his dick. Like, what are we talking about? We don't know.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: We don't know what they were writing. We don't know
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: who wrote it. We don't know how fantastical it was,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: how much hyperbole was involved. But we do know that
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: we accept the king's list when it gets to around
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: 2500 BC. We start accepting it.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: But you don't accept this possibility that it might actually
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: go far, far, far earlier than that.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: And the whole, the pyramids thing kind of plays into
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: the fact that stone is one of the only thing
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: that survives and pyramids are these massive stone constructions. Like ironically,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: they would be one of the only things from our,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: not that they really count as our civilization, but from
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: the modern world, the pyramids would be one of the
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: only things that could survive in a hundred thousand years.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: So it makes you think like, how long have they
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: been there? And I think, The Egyptians definitely undertook some
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: kind of construction project around the time of 2500 BC. Oh,
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: for sure. Because there's records of them saying they did stuff.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean– because they have all these records,
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: but there's no records of how they built it.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: Well, they also– the buildings that they made that were
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: after 2500 BC are dog shit.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: So much worse. They just immediately forgot how to do
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: it again straight away.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: They were trying to copy and they just couldn't do it.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: They didn't have the math. They didn't have the engineering.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: The stones are smaller.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: And no one's claimed, they didn't claim credit for the pyramids,
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: which is weird.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: Why would you not claim it?
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: It's all weird. It's all weird. It's the weirdest, right?
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: So it's the one thing that if you're a logical person,
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: And you think you know the timeline of history. You
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: think you understand human civilization. You think you understand how
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: intelligence evolved and how technology and innovation evolved. And you
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: see that. You're like, oh, I don't know shit. I
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: don't know shit. How is that statue so big and
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: perfectly symmetrical?
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: Isn't that crazy?
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: It's just these vases that they don't understand.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: Oh, is that a replica?
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: This is a 3D model of an actual vase from
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: Egypt built.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. They're doing some good work on this, aren't they?
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: People like Uncharted X.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: Who gave this to us? Did Christopher Dunn give this
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: to us? I think he did.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: It's probably him, yeah.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: But, you know, Ben from Uncharted X, he's done a
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: lot of work on these things. Just those vases are
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: very bizarre. Very bizarre.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: And they appear right at the start of the Egyptian dynasties.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: And they forgot how to do that as well.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: We have no idea how they made them. We don't
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: know what tools they used. Anybody that says that they do,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: you're lying. You really don't know. You can't know. These
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: things are perfectly symmetrical. They weren't turned on a lathe
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: because they have handles. The way they measure them, when
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: you look at the deviation from round and how it's
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: like a thousandth of a human hair. It's crazy. And
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: it's made from incredibly hard.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: It's the hardest stone to do that with.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: So what are we talking about? Like, who are these people?
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: This is kind of crazy.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: And then you have the statues that are perfectly symmetrical.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: Perfectly symmetrical.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: The faces are just incredible.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: And massive. Yeah.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: Huge. Unbelievably huge.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: So they moved them there and then they carved them
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: perfectly symmetrically. It looks like they're 3D printed. It's so strange.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: It just screams at a lost technology.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: At least.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: It screams that these people had some sort of information
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: and some sort of education that is like on a
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: different path of our– we went the way of the
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: internal combustion engine and transistors and electronics and they– it
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: seems like they went a totally different way but maybe
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: even further. Right. But we're scrambled in like our pathway
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: to advancement is the only one that the human mind
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: and all its infinite creativity can conceive of.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: And this is another point regarding like, you know, culture
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: that could have flourished back in 100,000 years ago or whatever.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: We're always looking for ourselves in the past. But there's
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: so many different ways that we could have gone because
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: why did it have to be mass farming? Mass population
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: growth and then, as you say, kind of industrial progress.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: It could have been so many different forms of human
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: development and human lives.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: Well, it could have been if they had enough animals,
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: they mostly ate animals.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, or fish or something.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, mostly ate animals and fish, which is probably healthier
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: for you anyway. You know, really what grain is, is
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: survival food.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we all got shorter and less healthy when that happened.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because we didn't get the right amount of protein.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: And our jaws shrunk because people were eating gruel. If
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: you look at part of the world where people are
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: eating a lot of porridge and shit, their jaws get
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: really small.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not good for us.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: No, it's fucking terrible for us. We're devolving because of
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: our diets, which is really strange. But if you think
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: about this time, and especially that part of the world
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: where there was so much abundant natural resources, that animal
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: agriculture seems super simple. You just corral a bunch of animals,
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: you build a fence, and then you eat them. Yeah.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: And you don't really have to grow rice.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: So many different ways that culture could have flourished.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: And yeah, we're always looking for, and we just don't
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: know where to look as well on the record. Like
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: one point people always make in like my comments and
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: stuff to try and debunk me is like, oh, we
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: would see pollution. We would see kind of lead signals
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: in the atmosphere or whatever if there was like a,
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: and big civilization 100,000 years ago. But that's only the
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: case if it was someone on the scale of us now.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: Or if they were doing it the way we're doing it.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: That's the thing. We're talking about a completely different pathway. Clearly,
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: there's some technology that they had that we don't understand.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: When you talk about the drill holes that they find
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: or the way they had carved out these enormous– massive
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: chunks of stone and we're apparently going to move them.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: We don't understand.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: The unfinished obelisk. Yeah, it's crazy.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: The unfinished obelisk, that's bananas. It's so many of these
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: things that they cut out of the ground and absolutely
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: moved are bananas. So it's like, what kind of technology?
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: Why are we assuming that it's going to be some
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: internal combustion engine that sprays out terrible pollution? What if
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: they'd figured something out?
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: I would say it's entirely possible.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: It's entirely possible because we're going to eventually. If you
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: give us another thousand years, you will not be able
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: to recognize any of this nonsense that we use for
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: technology today, especially when AI gets involved. Did you see
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: that thing where a quantum computer supposedly went one second
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: back in time?
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 3: I did. I was reading that.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: Is that bullshit?
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 3: No, they discovered it six years ago, though. It's not new.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: What? Six years ago? Well, still. 2019, but still.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: It went back in time.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, by one second in some way in quantum fields.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: What does that even mean?
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: That's mad.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: But that's us. Now, imagine that technology that was science
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: fiction 20 years ago, right? Go back to, like, the
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: movie Alien and look at their stupid computers that they had.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: That's what they thought people were going to have when
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: they were starfaring people.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Now.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: Think of this quantum computer experiment where it goes back
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: in time one second and then go forward 1,000 years,
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: which is nothing. We're talking about 4,500 years ago. We
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: might be off by 1,000. So go to 5,500 years ago, 6,000.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: If you're listening to John Anthony West, he thinks it's 34,000 years.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: That's what he thinks.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: And that sounds so crazy, but then you look at
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: the kind of length of time we've been around and
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: it's still quite recent.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's still quite recent.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: And that lines up with the Sphinx, doesn't it? That's
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: the processional cycle.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: How much evidence of a quantum computer from 34,000 years
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: ago would be left? Right. So we did get pelted
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: by comets, which we know happened. That's a fact.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: I saw an estimate. I think it was from NASA,
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: but I'm not 100% sure. But it was from a
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: kind of scientific journal that Earth is hit by what
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: they define as a cataclysmic impact every 100,000 years. So
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: that's an impact that's capable of wiping out a third
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: of today's population every 100,000 years. And 100,000 years sounds
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: like a long time, but again, we've been around for 300,000 years.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: So theoretically, we've been hit by a cataclysmic impact three
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: times already during our story. And that both has the
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: potential to completely wipe out anyone that was doing anything sophisticated,
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: but also to wipe the record clean.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: And that's not the only thing you've got, you know,
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: super volcanoes as we talked about, you got pole shifts,
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: you got solar flares, you've got glaciers just scraping across
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: the landscape and just completely erasing the record. You've got
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: sea level rise. Sea level rise is a massive one
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: because I mean, where have we always lived?
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: By the coasts.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: And if you look at the kind of fluctuation of
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: sea level rise over the last hundred thousand years, 200,000 years, 300,000 years,
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: the sea level is going in and out by hundreds
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: of kilometers at a time and nothing is going to
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: be left.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: Wild stuff. I know.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: It's crazy.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: It is wild stuff. But again, if someone is a
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: historian and they got into this, someone's an archaeologist and
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: they got into this because they have this fascination for it,
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: for them to become professors and then start teaching and
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: writing books about this stuff and not still be fascinated
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: by the new stuff is to me so weird. It's
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: like you missed the whole reason why you got into
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: this in the first place. You got into this in
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: the first place is because you're trying to figure out
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: what happened. How did we get to this point? And
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: if there's evidence that shows that we don't have the
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: full picture and you're ignoring that or dismissing that or.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: But the thing is when you go through these kind
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: of systems and I've sort of got experience of this. Obviously,
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: I was never a professional academic or anything like that,
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: but you know, I I did history for four years.
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: I was kind of inside and I got to the
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: point where it was almost, you know, it was do
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: this as a career, become a professional academic or not.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: It's very hard to kind of even think this way
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: because everyone around you is thinking within these boxes that
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: we've created for ourselves. And so it's very hard to
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: kind of open your mind and you kind of have
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: to do it in private as well because no one
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: else is talking in those terms around you and you're
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: surrounded by people that think in quite limited terms. And
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: I don't say that to kind of be offensive or
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: you know, doubt anyone's intelligence. Well, it's the culture. Exactly.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: It's the culture. And it means that no one is,
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: it's very hard to think outside the box when you're
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: kind of in that culture. And I think that's kind
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: of what creates these, you know, rigid systems of thought.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: It's also kind of fear-based because it's not just discouraged.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: They'll attack you.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, they attack each other even when they are
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: within the box.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: Viciously. Just to think about the Clovis first issue.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's the best example.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: It's the best example because that guy was destroyed.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: His career was destroyed.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, destroyed. And Jack St.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 3: Maas.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: And they were right. They were destroyed for theorizing that
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: human beings had lived in North America and that arrived
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: in North America far before 13,000 years ago. And that
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: was the established timeline of the Clovis people. And then
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: when they found these footprints in New Mexico that are 22,000
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: years old. Yeah. And they hated that as well. They
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: hated that. Of course they hated it. But they hated
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: it just because they were wrong. It's all it is, man.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: It's human ego. It's so gross. And this brings me
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: back to psychedelics. Because what do psychedelics do that's most important? Well,
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: the dissolving of the ego. It's one of the most
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: important aspects of it. It makes you realize the folly
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: of your ways. And all of these people that are
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: supposed to be the academics, they're supposed to be the
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: enlightened ones. They're not enlightened. They're just they have information
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: and they hold that information like it's their identity. And
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: they're right about a lot of things because they have
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: been studying it and they do deserve credit for that.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: What they've done is amazing. And the understanding that these academics,
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: these archaeologists and historians can give us of our world
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: and our history is really cool. It's really awesome. But
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: there's a whole lot more out there. And for them
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: to pretend and dismiss people like they should embrace people
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: like Graham Hancock. And then they should correct him when
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: he's saying something that is wrong.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: But instead of lying and then calling him a racist
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: and saying all these terrible things about him, well, that
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: just shows me that you don't really have an argument
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: and you're trying to protect your identity. Your identity is
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: the gatekeeper of this information that is not yours to gatekeep.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: It's for the whole human race to understand what the
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: hell happened.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: And I wish that, you know, we've seen a surge
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: in interest in ancient history and prehistory and you know
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: the story of our species through people like graham hancock
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: who've kind of created a massive interest in this subject
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: but instead of embracing that they they see it as
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: a threat and i think that's really sad to be
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: honest and yeah i think it kind of hurts the
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: discipline in general because if you kind of like embrace
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: that and like brought him into the table and spoke
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: to him and kind of agreed you know agreed to
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: have the discussion then It would create a much kind
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: of more healthy debate around these things. And when you
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: talk about the Clovis kind of narrative, because we think
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: that we know what happened and thus we know what
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: didn't happen, it means that people aren't even looking for
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: stuff that now we know was there. So they didn't
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: dig deeper than the Clovis layer until very recently because
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: they knew that humans weren't around until Clovis. But obviously
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: that was wrong. So They could have missed so much
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: stuff and they probably did. I mean, have you seen that?
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: There's like a, to be fair, I think Graham mentioned
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: it on the show, the Saruti mastodon site, which is
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: like 130,000 years ago in America. I mean, if that's human,
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: which it kind of looks like it is.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: That's debatable though, right? Isn't that debatable? Because the way
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: the bones are broken. It could have been from some
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: sort of an accident or an avalanche or something, right?
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is debatable. But it's also, it could be human.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: It could easily be human because it kind of looks
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: like human markings on bones.
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: It looks like scrapings, like they're scraping the marrow out
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: of the bones. Yeah, exactly. Or some kind of primitive...
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: But why couldn't it have been human?
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, it didn't necessarily have to be Homo sapien,
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: but why couldn't another human species have got to the Americas?
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: Well, it seems like they certainly could have if they
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: were here 22,000 years ago.
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 3: Like, why.
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: Exactly. What was that timeline? Why'd they figure it out then? Yeah.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: And how'd they do it, right? That's the question. How'd
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: they do it? And we know that people were seafaring. from,
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: what was the earliest seafarers?
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: You could argue that Homo erectus seafared 800,000 years ago,
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: which is just mental.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: Could you really?
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: Well, they reached places that were isolated. And some people say,
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: you know, they kind of floated there accidentally. which is possible,
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: but it seems a bit weird that you'd then survive
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: and colonize a place.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: See, that's where it gets so squirrely. If Homo erectus
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: made a boat, that's bananas.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, Neanderthals were definitely making boats, and this points
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: to how intelligent they were. They were making sophisticated boats
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: and sailing across the Mediterranean and colonizing places like Crete
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: well over 100,000 years ago.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: Well, we know that the North Sentinel people, they arrived
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: by boat from Africa 60,000 years ago. And so at
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: least then people were seafaring. Oh, definitely. And probably way
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: earlier than that. So why would we assume they wouldn't
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: get to the Americas? That seems crazy.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, bigger journey, to be fair. But then, I guess,
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: if you go across the top.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: Which way you're doing it. Exactly.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: If you go across the top and kind of hop
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: down along the coast, then not so hard.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: Also, there's a problem. It's like if you go back 12,000
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: years ago, Canada's covered in ice. There's nothing there. It's
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: literally all ice. So where are they coming from? They
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: have to be coming from the south.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 3: I guess.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's the kind of Theory regarding the Polynesian
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: kind of island chain, you know, hopping across to Easter
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: Island and then making one last hop across to South America.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's a crazy hop.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: Going the other way. It is a crazy hop.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: It is a crazy hop. But people have always done crazy.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: Just the fact that they did it in the 1400s
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: is bananas. That's pretty crazy.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: And they did that with tech that was, you know,
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: no tech. They just did it with the stars.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And wood. But then you get to, how do
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: you say that ancient Greek symbol, that ancient Greek mechanism
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: that they found?
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: Oh, the Antikythera mechanism.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 3: That's it.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: I never could say that. Antikythera. I'll try. I'll try
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: to remember. Antikythera. But I always forget it. But that
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: thing is bananas. Like that, when they first found it,
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: it just looked like a hunk of shit. Like, what
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: is this? And then when they got a better understanding,
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: I think it was like a long time after they
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: discovered it, that they go, oh, wait a minute. These
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: are gears. Like, what is? What the hell is this 2,000-year-old computer? Yeah.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: And also, that's not the first one. Someone didn't just
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: develop that and was like, here you go. I just
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: fucking made a computer. It was clearly a long history
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: of very, very technical stuff in ancient Greece. It could
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: well have been the ancient Greeks, but also it could
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: have been like, well, where did you come from? What's
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: the history of this technology?
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: Right. More technical than like this modern automatic watch.
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: You know, modern automatic watch, if you look at the
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: inside of them, it's crazy. There's springs and gears and
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: it's all within, like this Seiko is like within, I
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 2: think it's a couple seconds a day.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: Like that's crazy. And it's all these little, and it moves,
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: it has no power source other than the movement of
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: your hand.
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: It's nuts.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: And there's a 72-hour power reserve. So for 72 hours,
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: you let it sit there just from the power of
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: your hand from wearing it. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: a cool watch. Nuts. Isn't that nuts? But that's normal.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: That's a normal thing for a modern watch with these
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: little tiny gears. This thing's way crazier than that. And
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: it's 2,000 years old. At least. What do they think
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: it was for?
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: I think they thought it kind of like tracked the
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: lunar cycles and the kind of elliptical movements of....
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: Have you seen the 3D AI representation of what it
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: looked like when it was fully done? See if you
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: can find that because that's the most eye-opening of it
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: because you're bringing this back to the time of Christ
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: and someone made a computer during the time of Christ.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: What are we missing? Graham's quote is the best. I
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: love this quote. We are a species with amnesia. 100%.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: 100%.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And there's another quote that I really love. Things
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 2: just keep getting older.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: And things do keep getting older.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: They keep getting older. Yeah. And this is something that
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: people resist for some strange reason. And I don't understand it.
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 2: I think it's just because it's attached to these folks
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 2: like Graham.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the one.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 2: Look at it. That's nuts. That's what it used to
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: look like.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 3: This is a modern reproduction of it.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: Oh, right. But that is what it used to look like, right?
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 3: Based off of.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: That, yeah. These pieces. So, show me the modern reproduction
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: of what it looked like. Just imagine. Okay, someone 2,000
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: fucking years ago figured that out. And they have these
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: little representations of the stars and the planets of the sun.
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: And then all the planets surround it. Like, first of all,
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: how do they know all that? How are they seeing
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: these planets? Like, do they have a telescope? Like, what
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: are they? How do they know how many planets are
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: in our solar system? What did you base this on?
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: And no equivalent technology ever, like, reemerged until, like, you know,
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: like the 16th century with, like, Swiss clockmakers or something.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: So it just makes you wonder, like, how old is
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: that and what's that from? And what were the, you know,
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: was there other stuff like this that we never find?
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: When I Googled....
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 3: For seafarers?
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's the.
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 3: I don't see the evidence that they have for 700,000
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 3: years ago.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: I think that's the Homo erectus thing.
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 3: I googled it and crossing the Aegean Sea, it says
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 3: they might have been doing, which there was some islands
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 3: that were protecting it from crazy weather, potentially made it easier.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: But that is a crazy thing to read. Some evidence
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 2: suggests that man may have crossed the sea as early
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: as 700,000 years ago. Yeah. Aren't you happy you were
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: born today?
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 2: Imagine trying to gut it out, tough it out.
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: Take the boys and go and cross across some fucking
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: sea in a wooden raft.
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: When you wind up eating your friend because there's no
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: food left.
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: It's kind of amazing that we got as far as
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: we did, but it's really amazing when they find things
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: like that. The Antikythera mechanism. I said it, right? You did.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: I'll try to remember. But just the fact that we
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: found one of those, and it makes you wonder, like,
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 2: would they have an Egypt? What did they have 2,000
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: years before that? What did we miss?
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 3: I'm digging into the stone stuff before you talk about frequencies.
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 3: I saw a video recently that doesn't explain all the
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 3: Egypt stuff, but there were frequencies coming out of these
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 3: rocks that I don't think everybody is currently studying. People
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 3: have studied it. That's very basic, but there's the king's
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 3: chamber and the reverberations that happen. I was reading from Archimedes,
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 3: I think, this quote here. When the priests sing the
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 3: hymns of the gods, they sing the seven vowels in
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 3: due succession. The sound of these vowels has such euphony,
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 3: I think that's that word, that men listen to it
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 3: instead of the flute and the lyre. It's from 200 B.C.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: There's like so many ancient sites that are all built
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: with kind of acoustic resonance in mind.
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's what I was getting into this. I
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 3: was trying to find the proof of it. Someone made
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 3: a video I saw recently where the somatic stuff shows
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 3: up all over the place in some ancient sites, definitely
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 3: obviously in churches and cathedrals. But this is what happens
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 3: when you put sand on a plate and hum on
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 3: it or put a certain frequency.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: Vibrations, yeah.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 3: And how... You stumble across this, and it just so
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 3: happens to be the same thing we're discovering now.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: What is that image of? What is that golden?
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 3: This?
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what's that?
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 3: It's a cathedral. I looked at it a second ago.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: Is that in Canada?
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 3: No, the article is from Spain.
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: It's in Spain. Whoa. That is wild. Okay.
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 3: I was looking into the oldest doors people found. The
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 3: oldest door is only like 5,000 B.C. It was found
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 3: in Switzerland somewhere.
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 2: Huh.
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 3: It was the oldest act of doors in the U.K.
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 3: It's from 900 A.D., I think.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: What are those images of sacred geometry from in that
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: right there? Leonardo da Vinci's original drawing of the flower
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 2: of life. What? Da Vinci? What drugs are you taking, son?
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: How is he seeing that? Yeah, well, that's ancient imagery, right?
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: That's sacred geometry. Those depictions have been around forever.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: He was a crazy dude, Da Vinci, in a good way.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: Smart guy. Bizarrely smart. Very smart. It's weird when you
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: have these outliers, these outliers that come out of nowhere,
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 2: and he had a working model of a flying machine. Yeah.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: And he had like three jobs.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: Crazy guy.
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 2: And he's an amazing artist.
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: It's kind of these outliers. How many of them we
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: never heard of? How many of them were from 30,000
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 2: years ago? We have such a limited understanding of our history.
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: And I always think if something happened to us right now,
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: what would really be left? The real problem is everything
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: is either on paper, and there's not a lot of
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: it on paper anymore. It's on hard drives. And those
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: things would get cooked. If there was just a massive
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: solar flare, something huge that took out our power grid
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: and destroyed all of our cell phone towers and all
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: our satellites, no more electricity.
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: And even if it didn't get cooked, what would you
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: do with it in 10,000 years? Exactly. If you found that,
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: you wouldn't know what that was.
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: You wouldn't know what that was. You would have to
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: devise a new... version of Windows to read it. You know,
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 2: it would take so long. And it would probably have
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 2: been corroded and wasted away.
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: Long before that.
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: Especially if something happened, it was underwater. Especially if, you know,
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: the entire world is on fire because we get hit
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 2: with a comet. Yeah. There wouldn't be much left. And
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 2: this is like a really shitty way to store information.
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: It does feel like a bit of a risk, doesn't it?
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: It's a giant risk.
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: Everything we've ever learned and discovered and thought about.
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 2: Well, you know what happens when your phone dies and
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 2: you don't have a backup phone. You're like, oh, no,
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: I don't know anyone's number.
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: And we do that with our entire civilization's knowledge.
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 2: Right. And so then you would have just stories and
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: myths of what things used to be like. There was
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: an all-female flight crew at Delta. You're like, what? What
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: are you talking about? What does that even mean? Oh,
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: they had satellites. What are you talking about? The thing is,
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: I wonder how many of the satellites would still be
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: in orbit or whether their orbit would deteriorate and they'd
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: come crashing down to Earth.
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: I think they would decay relatively quickly, I think. I mean,
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but lots of them would, I think,
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: when we're talking big timescales.
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's Google that. How many satellites that are in
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: orbit today? Put this into AI. How many satellites that
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: are in orbit around the Earth today will be there
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 2: in 100,000 years? Does perplexity have an answer for that?
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: I think it's unlikely that anyone else was doing space
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: travel and stuff.
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: Unlikely.
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Maybe not impossible, but I don't think there's anything
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: on the moon, for example. I think we'd probably see that.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the weird one, right? There's bases on the
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 2: dark side of the moon and they're watching us. Are
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 2: you sure?
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: I don't think so.
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 2: You know, well, then there's the weirdest of the moon itself,
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 2: that it's the absolute perfect size and the perfect distance
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 2: to completely block out the sun.
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: That is weird, isn't it?
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 2: Real, real weird.
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 3: That is super weird.
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: It's real weird because it's not kind of right. It's perfect.
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: It's precise, yeah.
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: It's very precise. So you would need the precise size
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: and the precise distance. That's weird. And there's also the
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: fact that it stabilizes our atmosphere. It stabilizes our environments.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess the argument for that is we wouldn't
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: be here if it wasn't.
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: If it wasn't the exact right.
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 3: This is the best answer. You might have to read
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 3: the whole thing, but there's thousands of satellites burning up
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 3: each year in the atmosphere. That's what I got to
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 3: the end of.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 2: Oh, so thousands of them have crashed down?
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 3: I mean, they.
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: So how long do they last?
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 3: That's the first. That's why I was trying to track
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 3: that down. The first one only lasted three months.
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 2: So Sputnik 1, the Soviet Union, in 1957, three months later,
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 2: it fell out of orbit.
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 3: It seems like they worked up to about a 25-year
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 3: rule where they don't expect it to last that long.
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 3: And it's going to crash down.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 2: So in 25 years, there's nothing left.
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 3: But I was trying to Google how long until the
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 3: last one. If they stop putting them up, how long
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 3: until the last one crashes down?
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: It seems like 25 years.
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 3: That's why I couldn't get a good answer that way.
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: Did you put it into AI? No.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 3: I didn't because I don't want to. I don't like
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 3: asking questions you don't know the answer to to AI.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 3: I like asking questions I know the answer to.
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: Well, I just like to see how it thinks. I
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: like to see if it's going to just bullshit you
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: and lie to you or if it's going to.
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 3: That's why I want to know when it's bullshitting me.
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 3: I don't like knowing it doesn't. Yeah. Because you just
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 3: have to trust it.
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 2: Well, it's also basing all its information on websites.
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I don't know what year it was trained on.
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 3: I was watching people talk about sports cards. They're like,
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 3: it's not updated in the last three years, so you
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 3: can't use this data. It's not good data.
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 2: Oh, really? Which one was that?
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 3: I don't know which one they were talking about. There's
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 3: so many AI opportunities out there.
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 2: It's funny watching people on Twitter use Grok and try
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 2: to get Grok to say things it doesn't want to say.
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: And you realize, oh, there's an information blockade of what
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 2: Grok is allowed to talk about.
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: You can kind of trick AI to say whatever you
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: want it to say.
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen people do that, like trick it into saying, like,
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: how would you make a bomb?
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's almost the bad thing about it is
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: it kind of becomes your own little echo chamber after
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: a while if you want it to, if you can
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: kind of convince it to.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 2: Well, we've done a really terrible job of taking care
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 2: of most people, and when then you give these people
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 2: access to the kind of power that AI provides them,
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: they're going to ask naughty questions because they, you know,
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 2: It's great fun, though. They're not living in harmony.
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: Because we're a selfish being. We're a selfish creature.
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: It's a crazy thing, though, the kind of advent of
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: large language models and artificial intelligence. It's mad.
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 2: Well, it's also we're in the middle of it. It's
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 2: happening right now, which is real weird. So, like, in
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 2: our lifetimes, we're potentially witnessing the biggest change to civilization
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 2: since the pyramids.
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: Even in my lifetime, like I was born in 97,
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: didn't really have, I had to dial up the internet.
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: I remember when I was a kid and then smartphones
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: came along and then obviously things like AI and it's just,
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: it is pretty ridiculous.
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: I was 27 years old before I ever got online.
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 2: That was when I first got a computer and I
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: got on AOL. You've got mail. I was like, I've
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: got mail? This is crazy. And you could go to
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 2: chat rooms and read about stuff, and you could download information.
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: So I'd print stuff about UFOs. I'm like, this is
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: the future. I'm living in the future. And we're very fortunate,
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 2: I think, that we got to see what life was
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 2: like with the primitive use of the internet to what
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 2: it's become now to a quantum computer can go back
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: a second in time to what is coming next. We
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: don't know. What's really weird is imagine if this has
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 2: been done before. We're assuming that it hasn't. But imagine
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: if the Egyptians had figured out something similar. It kind
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: of makes sense. I mean, it sounds preposterous that they did.
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 2: But why? Why if we can do it? Why if
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 2: we can do it? Maybe it's just a thing. If
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 2: you leave humans undisturbed for a long enough amount of
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: time with food, they start figuring stuff out. if you
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: can keep them from killing each other, and maybe that's
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: the beautiful thing about the way Egyptian technology had advanced,
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 2: they didn't split the atom. Maybe they figured out something else,
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 2: that they couldn't turn into a weapon.
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, they were definitely doing some pretty mad stuff.
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: And then if you look at those kind of granite
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: boxes they made, which are completely smooth surface, I mean,
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: they clearly had some form of technology that we don't
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: attribute to them. I think that's I mean, it is disputed,
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: but I don't see how you can logically kind of
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: look at what they were doing and not think they
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: had some kind of technology that we don't traditionally attribute
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: them to. But whether that means they were like some
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: crazy advanced civilization or it was built by some other
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: advanced civilization, that's a bit more hypothetical. But they were
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: clearly doing stuff that we can't appreciate today. So that
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: logically suggests they had something that we don't understand, right?
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: Right. And when you find... Antikythera from 2000 years ago.
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 2: It makes you just really think like, what did they have?
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: Ancient Greece was very inspired by ancient Egypt. So, I mean,
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: it could have well come from there.
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Yeah. And we, you know, we're just guessing. We're
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 2: just lost in guessing.
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: That's the thing. It's all about interpretation, isn't it? All
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: of history is about interpretation. It's not a hard science like,
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: you know. physics, I mean, physics is kind of crazy too.
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: It hurts my head, man. That's too much for me,
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: all that quantum physics stuff. But have you ever heard
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: of the Silurian hypothesis?
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 2: No. What is it?
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: It's kind of linked to this, it's linked to this,
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: you know, ancient civilization stuff. It's the idea that there
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: could have been an advanced civilization on our planet, you know,
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: a hundred million years ago, a non-human one that, you know,
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: was advanced and industrial and we just wouldn't see any
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: trace because of how long ago it was and they
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: could have been here and you know we just wouldn't
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: know because it's been so long it's kind of like
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: where i come from with my kind of human idea
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: obviously it's a further uh time span but it's been
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: it was proposed by two physicists is why i uh
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: why i just thought of it just then this guy
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: called adam frank and uh well i've had him at
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: adam on before you've had him on yeah adam frank
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: there you go i mean didn't you might.
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 2: We had him on jamie right i don't know didn't
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 2: we It's a problem. That happens all the time. We're like, yeah,
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: we've had them on. I know we have. Episode 1130.
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 2: I knew we have. There you go. I just wanted
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: to check because I have been wrong before. We talked
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 2: about a guy. I'm like, who's that guy? And then
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: I talked to him for three hours.
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 3: I thought you were wrong.
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 2: I was like, uh-oh. It's happened before. So this idea
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 2: is that something else other than human beings?
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: Well, it's just the idea that if it had, we
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: wouldn't know. And because the Earth's been around for so
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: long and complex multicellular life appeared, you know, relatively early
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: in our like four billion year history of the Earth
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: or whatever, I'm not sure on the dates, but we've
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: been around, the Earth has been around for so, so,
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: so long. And we know that intelligence can emerge because
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: it emerged with us and happened relatively quickly when you
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: look at the kind of massive time scale that the
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: earth's been around and how long multicellular life has been
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: around so their idea is kind of like well what
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: what if you know a civilization in the kind of
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: era of the dinosaurs had you know become very advanced
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: and an industrial society and they say we would see
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: absolutely no evidence like when i'm talking about human civilization
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: we would see some potential evidence like you know rock,
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: carved stone or whatever. But they would say you wouldn't
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: even see the nuclear waste deposits because it's that long
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: ago that nothing would survive. And then I think about
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: that and I think, well, isn't it almost more likely
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: that something did happen considering we know that intelligence can
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: emerge relatively quickly? Multicellular life has been on the planet
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: for so, so, so, so, so, so long.
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 2: A limited understanding of the fossil record.
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Why couldn't something have happened before? And then Then
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: you start getting a bit stoner about it, and you
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: start thinking, well, maybe they're still here. That's what I
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: like to do.
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: I like to go interdimensional. Because I think, well, if
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 2: you do have these quantum computers that can go back
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 2: one second in time, and you move forward 1,000 years
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 2: from now, and they're run by AI, what can they do?
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: Do these beings cease to exist in this dimension? Do
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 2: they develop the ability to be trans-dimensional? Do they no
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 2: longer exist in our space and time? Is that like
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 2: the emergence of this new life form and then they
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: observe us? Is that what's going on?
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: Well, I feel like if you kind of survive, you know,
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: a lot longer than we have and you kind of
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 1: get to a different like kind of level of intelligence,
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: then why would you need the kind of physical body?
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: Why would you need the physical realm? And why couldn't
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: you kind of diverge different, dimensions, if such a thing
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 1: is possible.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 2: We certainly can imagine it taking place somewhere else. Another
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: planet with a similar atmosphere that supports life. Maybe they
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 2: live in a solar system that doesn't have an asteroid belt.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 2: I'm sure they must exist. They're not getting pelted all
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 2: the time. We're just in a shitty neighborhood. We're basically
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 2: in a neighborhood that gets shot up all the time.
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: A shooting gallery, yeah.
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a shooting gallery. And imagine them where we
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: are at, but then plus a million years. And you
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 2: can go, oh yeah, well, I guess all bets are
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 2: off in terms of what's possible. You know, a hundred
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: years ago, people were freaking out if they saw a
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 2: car Now we're sending video from a tiny little screen
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 2: on your phone. Across the world. Instantaneously. It's all nuts.
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 1: And we don't even blink at that. You get pissed
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: off if it doesn't work. Fuck, I talked to this
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: guy in Australia and instantly like, why is my phone
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: not working?
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 2: And, you know, people are addicted to staring at it.
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 2: It's like it's pulling you into its gravity. It's all very,
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 2: very weird stuff. Yeah.
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: We adjust very quickly to.
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 2: Real quick.
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 1: How technology develops. And it's just getting faster and faster
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: and faster. It makes you think, where will we be
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: in 100 years, in 500 years, if nothing happens?
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Where will we be? I think we'll be somewhere
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 2: really weird. But I'm hoping that as we do advance
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 2: and wherever we're going to be, it'll help us understand
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: where we came from. Like, you know, like, if AI
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: and superintelligence starts examining the history of the human race
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 2: then things can get very interesting and maybe it could
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 2: give us places to look like we need physical you
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 2: know human beings or drones on the ground excavating certain
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: areas this is like prime place to.
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 1: Look yeah i come i some i kind of flip
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: between like quite a pessimistic outlook and quite an optimistic
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 1: outlook on these things like sometimes i think like it's
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: just gone and we're never going to know and we
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: can speculate for as much as we like but it's
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: gone and then sometimes i think no like You never know.
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: There's so many places that are just completely unexcavated, completely
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: unexplored that we haven't looked at. Like, you know, believe
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: the Sahara on the ocean floor by these. Could I
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: have some coffee, please?
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: Of course.
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: And all these places that, you know, we haven't explored.
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: And as you say, technology like AI. Thank you.
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 3: Cheers.
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: Thank you. You know, I think sometimes I think, yeah,
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 1: maybe we are going to make like these massive discoveries
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: that are going to completely shift our understanding of of history.
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: And as you say, the kind of geyser, the findings
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: beneath geyser, that could be a moment. And I'm always
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 1: looking for that. But then sometimes I flip again and think,
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: you know, maybe we'll never find anything. And I just
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe I'm just speculating for no reason and
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 1: I should just stop.
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 2: Have you seen Ben on Uncharted X? He has a
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 2: very recent video of these, I don't even know how
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 2: you describe it. There's these underground structures that in Egypt
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 2: that he says are bigger than the Giza Plateau, that
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 2: are underground.
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 1: I haven't seen that. I love his channel, but I
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: haven't seen that.
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 2: There's a historical record of these things where people had
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 2: talked about them way back. Even explorers had visited them
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 2: and found them to be more spectacular than what is
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 2: actually on the ground, that the underground thing was even crazier.
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: And that begs the question, why... Why underground? Why do
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 1: we find all this underground construction all over the world?
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 2: Hey.
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 1: Whoa.
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 2: Jamie.
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: That's his theme music. I even recognize that. Shout out
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: to Uncharted X.
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: Yes. He's coming on soon to talk about this very thing.
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 2: He's awesome. He's really awesome. And he spends so much
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 2: time down there. So.
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 1: He did something.
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 2: Are you talking about.
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 1: He did a video.
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 2: That's it right there. Unknown ancient site. So the unknown
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 2: age sites seem to be greater than the pyramids, confirmed
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 2: with satellite scans.
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I haven't seen this.
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 2: Give us the coming up. Just play it.
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 4: Just so many different techniques. The geoscan in Merlin borrows
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 4: satellite technologies. I mean, they're vastly different techniques. They seem
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 4: to be aligned. They're telling you the same things. So
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 4: they found something, like there's something down there. What is
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 4: down there seems to be also quite a mystery. The
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 4: central object is hard to classify. It appears metallic, not
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 4: stone or wood. A freestanding, 40-meter-long, metallic, tic-tac-shaped object. Approximately, what, 50,
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 4: 60 meters below the ground in a huge, big, open
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 4: corridor or an atrium?
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 3: Come on. Like, this is a remarkable claim.
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 2: It's a crazy video. And he goes deep into the
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 2: history of people talking about these sites and even ancient explorers.
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: who wrote about visiting Egypt, would talk about how it
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 2: was even more spectacular underground. Here it is. This is...
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 2: How do you say his name?
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: Petrie, yeah. He's... He's written a lot because he was
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: like one of the first people to.
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's Flanders Petrie.
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 2: So are those the names of the sites he's talking about? Hawara, Biamahou... Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, sorry.
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 2: And Arsone... Arsione?
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Hawara is definitely a site.
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 2: Arsinoe? Arsinoe? So it says... On that space could be
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 2: erected the great hall of Karnak and all successive temples
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 2: adjoining it and the great court and the pylons of it.
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 2: Also the temple of Mut and that of, how do
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 2: you say that? Kansu?
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 3: I guess.
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 2: Kansu and Amenhotep III at Karnak. Also the two great
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 2: temples of Luxor and still there would be room for
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 2: the whole of Ramesium. What does that mean? In short,
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 2: all the temples of the east of Thebes, and I'm
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 2: sorry if I'm butchering these names, folk, and one of
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 2: the largest of the West Bank might be placed together
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 2: in the one area in the ruins of Hawara. Here,
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 2: we certainly have a site worthy of the renown which
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 2: the labyrinth acquired. So this is an ancient explorer who's
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 2: talking about He actually got into this area. The problem
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 2: now is it's all submerged. So it's been flooded. And
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 2: it's very difficult to do any kind of archaeological work
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 2: on it now.
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because he was one of the first people in.
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 1: Western people.
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 2: They're crawling into these holes and swimming in now. It's
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 2: real weird. It's like you could die in there. Yeah.
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 2: Someone's got to figure out how to get the fucking
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 2: water out of there. And what is that? So if
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 2: this guy's accurate with what he's talking about, again, explain that.
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 2: Explain how you've got something that's even greater than what
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 2: you're seeing above the surface underneath 50 meters down in
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 2: the stone.
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: And why underground?
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: So much harder.
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 2: Exactly. What were they doing? Were they hiding? Is this
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 2: like what happened when cataclysms took place? They said, Wilson...
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 2: We need to develop a way to survive these things.
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 2: Let's get underground.
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: There's so many all over the world as well. Ancient
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 1: people were always building underground construction, and we can't explain
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 1: how they did it, who did it, or why they
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: did it today. And again, no one in the mainstream
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: really kind of looks into that.
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that site in Turkey, wasn't it supposed to house
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 2: like 2,000 people?
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 2: Is that the number, like 2,000 people? At least, I think.
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: I can't remember off the top of my head, but
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 1: it's huge.
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 2: Huge. I think it might be 20,000 people. It's massive.
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 2: That sounds better.
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 2: It sounds more exciting. But it is massive, and they
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 2: don't know how they did it, and they carved it
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 2: out of stone.
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: They don't know who built it.
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 2: There's no evidence of the stone being left anywhere. It's
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 2: not like there's a big pile of it outside of it.
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 2: It's real weird.
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, 20,000.
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 2: There you go. 20,000 people together with their livestock and
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 2: food stores. So 20,000 people live... and food stores, extending
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 2: to a depth of approximately 85 meters underground.
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 1: And no one knows who built that.
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 3: That's just so crazy.
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 2: All that underground. Nuts.
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: And their kind of argument is that they built it
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: to kind of protect themselves from... An invading army, but
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 1: that's never made sense to me because if you're attacking
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: those people you just block the entrances.
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then start fires. Yeah. Yeah, that seems silly.
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 2: It seems like more likely what they were doing was
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 2: escaping whatever the fuck was on the surface.
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: And so who built that and why and how old
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 1: is it? Because again, it's stone that could survive for
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: so long.
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 2: And also, did you build it after a cataclysm? Like,
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 2: how do you do it? Do you know it's coming
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 2: and that's how you build it? No, you didn't know
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 2: it's coming unless it happens regularly. And they realized the
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 2: only way to survive it is to get underground.
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 1: Well, I guess it could be the remnants of an
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 1: earlier culture that was wiped out.
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: They had, like, a memory of maybe passed down through myth.
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 2: Look at how nuts that is.
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 3: I was thinking, too, like, knowing how, like, leafcutter ants
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 3: do it, this couldn't have been the first.
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 2: One they made.
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, again.
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 3: And figure out how to make all those chambers to
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 3: breathe and stuff.
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 2: That's so bananas, dude, that that's 85 meters into the ground.
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 1: So crazy.
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 2: So crazy.
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 1: Another great one is Longyu Caves in China, which is just.
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: There's just zero explanation of what that is or who
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 1: built it. There's no record of its construction. Have you
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 1: seen Longyear Caves?
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, pull that up because that's nuts too.
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 1: Absolutely crazy.
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 2: How old is that supposed to be?
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 1: No one knows. They have no idea who built it.
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 1: It's just like, well, what is this? And they don't
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 1: know who built it. There's no record of who built it.
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 1: They don't know what it was for. There's no deposits
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: of stone. There's no tools found nearby.
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 2: Do they have a theory of the timeline?
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 1: I don't think so. I mean, to be fair, it's
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 1: in China, so it's kind of like it's.
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 3: Not– Found in 1992. Whoa.
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 2: A farmer. Four farmers.
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 1: So there's 24 of them looking like that.
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 1: 24.
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 3: At least 2,000 years old.
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 2: Go to a video of it so we can see.
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 2: Because the caves, when people walk around it with a camera,
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 2: it's bananas.
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 1: And there's 24 distinct ones that look like that. And
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 1: it's just like, who's building that?
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 3: Why?
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 2: Can you still visit? China without going to jail? What happens?
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 1: Oh, this is Mike Collins. He's great.
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 2: Wanderer and Wolf. Yes. He's the one who does all
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 2: that stuff about that wall in Montana, too.
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the Sage Wall.
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 2: Very weird. That Montana thing is very weird. I go
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 2: back and forth on that one, being man-made or.
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the case for so many of these things.
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 1: It's like it could be natural, but then.
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 2: Not this one, though.
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 1: This is definitely not fucking natural.
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 2: Can you imagine in 1992 some farmers are just fucking
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 2: around and they find this.
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 1: Find 24 of them as well.
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 2: And they're like, yo, what did we find?
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 1: I think the carvings are modern.
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 2: Oh, they are?
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 1: I think so.
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 2: From 1992?
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 1: Not the parallel lines. They don't know what they are.
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 1: They have no idea why the parallel lines are there.
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 1: But I think the kind of, Carvings depicting like mystical
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 1: Chinese stuff is a kind of modern addition.
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 2: Oh, like brand new? Yeah.
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 1: Like since they discovered it.
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 2: Oh, really? Like even those ones on the wall right there?
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 2: That's so gross.
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 1: I think so.
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 2: I may be wrong.
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: Might be worth checking.
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 2: Oh, I hope they didn't do that. Oh, that would
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 2: be gross. Can you imagine?
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 1: But that site has just always baffled me. Because again,
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 1: if you look at the Wikipedia page for that site,
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: it's just like three lines. But it's like, what the
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 1: fuck is this?
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So the carvings, are those really old or are
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 2: those modern? What made you think that they're modern?
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 1: Because I did a little video on, I mentioned this
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 1: in a video during my research of that.
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 2: I saw that. Oh, so in the research you found
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 2: out that they were modern. Yeah. Okay. So the lines,
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 2: it seems to be, the parallel lines seems to be
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 2: like how they differ. dug all the stuff out like
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 2: one layer at a time. Would you think that?
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but like how and what using what?
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 2: Right. 24 of them.
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 1: And also they're all so precisely identical. It's like what
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 1: tool you're using to make sure this was so identical.
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 2: Right. Like what tool are you carving stone with to
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 2: make a giant cave? One particular cave stands out for
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 2: its detailed carvings of dragons, animals, people and figures. Closely
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 2: resembling the eight immortals from Taoist mythology, these depictions suggest
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 2: a deep connection to Taoism. Whether these carvings were a
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 2: part of the original structure or added later after the
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 2: caves were rediscovered in 1992 remains a topic of debate.
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 2: After close examining of the carvings and a noticing of
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 2: unique method used to chip away at the rock for
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 2: these images, it seems likely that they were added later,
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 2: perhaps turning the cave into a sacred place reflecting the
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 2: religious beliefs at the time. Oh, so some gross people
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 2: carved into it in 1992. That's so crazy that you
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 2: did that, guys, because that's probably what people have done
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 2: throughout time. I bet that's probably the people that put
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 2: their dead body in the pyramid.
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's the thing with all the other things
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 1: in Egypt is people have carved hieroglyphics onto there, but
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that that's when the original thing was built.
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 2: Can you go back to the video, please, Jamie, of
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 2: that site so we could see what it looks like
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 2: when you're walking around in it? Because the fact that
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 2: they don't really know who made it and the fact
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 2: that these farmers found it in 1994, when you see
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 2: the scope of it, that's where it really sets in.
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 1: It's just unbelievably big.
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I think, like, images are cool, but the
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 2: way this guy's walking around it, you really get it.
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 1: And then you have to time that by 24. Can you.
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 2: Imagine those farmers? Like, should we tell anybody? Yeah. If
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 2: we don't, they're going to kill us. They might kill
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 2: us anyway.
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 3: How much was added then afterwards if they did the carving?
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 3: How much like stairs?
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. All the stairs were added for sure, I bet. Right?
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 2: The stairs that that guy's on.
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 3: That doesn't look too new, obviously.
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 1: But again, what was this for? Like why did they
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 1: build this huge?
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they look new.
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 2: All that shit looks new. Yeah. Why did they? Like
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 2: what is this? carvings.
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 3: Maybe they're trying to make the carvings to make it
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 3: seem like it was older and people would come wander
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 3: and just come look and it'd be a tourist attraction.
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 2: Like maybe without art they didn't think it would get
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 2: enough people to visit.
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 1: I think it's also to kind of connect it to
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 1: kind of you know more like contemporary cultural China rather
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 1: than because I mean who knows how old this could be.
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 2: That's crazy.
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: Because it's stone.
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 2: That's so crazy. The fact that they just found it.
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 2: Just stumbled on it. That's what's the weirdest thing. thing
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 2: about some of the discoveries, because that's the same with
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 2: Gobekli Tepe. It was a sheep herder, right?
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 1: Someone found Gobekli Tepe in the 60s, and they didn't
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 1: think it was anything.
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 2: So they left it. Really?
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like that guy fucking.
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 2: Missed the boat a little bit. No way.
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, some American archaeologists found it in the 60s.
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 2: What did they find?
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 1: I can't remember, but they found a little bit of it,
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 1: and they were like, oh, this is clearly just some
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 1: contemporary Bronze Age society.
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 2: That guy must have shot himself.
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 1: He fucking missed the boat a little bit.
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 2: I could be a stoic. I could have been the guy.
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 2: Instead of a fucking sheep herder.
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 2: Because there was a guy who just found like a stone, right?
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, here it is.
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 1: 1960s.
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 2: Survey conducted by archaeologists from Istanbul University and the University
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 2: of Chicago found some flint and limestone artifacts in But
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 2: they didn't perceive the site as anything more than a
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 2: medieval cemetery. Whoops. Whoopsies. Whoopsies.
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the find of your career.
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 3: That's so nuts.
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 2: What a slip up. So the sheep herder that found it,
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 2: I think he just found like a corner of something.
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 2: And he like kicked it with his boot and was like,
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 2: what is this? And then started looking around and scraping
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 2: it off. And then I think once he realized it
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 2: was really big, they started, he goes like, maybe I
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 2: should call somebody. Yeah. Call somebody who knows how to dig.
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 1: The whole like 5% excavation thing is so puzzling in
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 1: Gobekli Tepe because, I mean, to be clear, that's kind
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 1: of how, that's like normal practice, I think, for archaeology.
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 1: But you would think that Gobekli Tepe is like a
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 1: bit more of a, it's a special case.
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not normal. That should, but it's also, they
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 2: make a lot of money off of tourism, people visiting
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 2: it the way it is. And that would disrupt everything
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 2: if you had a bunch of eggheads digging into the
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 2: ground all around you. I see that. But, you know,
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 2: then they started doing weird stuff like planting olive trees
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 2: above the ruins. And everyone was telling them, like, hey, guys,
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 2: if you do that, these trees are going to grow roots.
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 2: The roots are going to destroy what's underneath them. And
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 2: they're like, no, everything's going to be fine. And then
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 2: they realize, oh, it's actually destroying what's underneath it.
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 1: That's like a microcosm of the problem with. a small
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 1: section of very vocal kind of mainstream archaeologists. I think
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 1: the whole tree controversy regarding Gobekli Tepe is... Because it
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 1: was Jimmy, right? Jimmy Brighton. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 2: He can't go there anymore, you know.
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 1: I'm not surprised.
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 2: He might have snuck in recently.
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 1: He did a video, yeah.
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 2: But I think he's banned from the country. from the
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 2: whole of Turkey I think he's banned from the site
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 2: at the very least it doesn't make sense because they're
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 2: mad at him for telling the truth exactly.
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 1: Exactly whatever you think of Jimmy like.
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 2: He was right let's find out if he's banned I
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 2: don't want to get Turkey mad at me because I
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 2: think Turkey's probably the that's probably the birthplace of civilization
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 2: possible of what we think of as civilization I mean
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 2: there's so many different things that they've found in Turkey
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 2: now that's starting to lean people to think that like
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 2: maybe that spot maybe we've you know There was probably
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 2: a bunch of places like that in the Middle East
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 2: where civilization had sort of emerged from whatever had happened before.
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 2: Or the Sahara.
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 1: Or the Sahara, yeah.
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 2: What do you think about the Richard? Let's get to
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 2: that in a second here. Oh, yeah. Turkey should have
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 2: banned me when they had a chance. Jimmy's so crazy.
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 2: If my prior work on Gobekli Tepe upset them, what
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 2: I will share in the coming days, weeks is going
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 2: to take things to another level. But because we were
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 2: cunning around various security protocols and aided with exceptional timing,
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 2: we got the footage. Our ancient history belongs to humanity.
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 2: I agree. Anyone that opposes that has no place controlling
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 2: our lost history. Good for you, Jeremy.
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, whatever you think about him, he was
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 1: right about the trees. And the fact that they had
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 1: these people kind of coming out defending the trees and
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 1: saying the trees were good for archaeological sites, just.
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know what Jimmy has a degree in,
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 2: if anything, but he clearly knows a lot about ancient
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 2: history and he's really interested in it. And this, again,
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 2: this gatekeeping. Like if you watch his videos and he
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 2: constantly gets smeared with all sorts of different horrible claims
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 2: that he's this and he's that. It's like if you
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 2: watch his videos, you know that's not true. He's just
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 2: a guy who is very fascinated and deeply informed on
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 2: a lot of the timelines of all these different things
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 2: and how interesting they are. And he likes to make
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 2: videos of them. And that's a good thing.
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 1: Why shouldn't he be allowed to speculate? He's just a
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 1: guy speculating.
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 2: And he's really fair and balanced with how he talks
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 2: about this.
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 1: And he's good at it, man. He puts together arguments
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 1: really well. And you just mentioned the reshot structure thing.
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 1: I've watched his videos on that. And it's interesting, man,
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 1: the way he kind of connects what Plato was saying
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 1: about Atlantis and brings it all to the reshot. It's
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 1: interesting stuff.
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 2: It's very interesting because it's also, he talks about how
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 2: Plato would talk about the mountains to the north and
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 2: the river to the south. He's like, this all lines up.
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 1: Concentric rings.
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 2: Concentric rings in the same size as was described as Atlantic.
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 1: And the Tamanrasa River system used to run. So it
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 1: was surrounded by water.
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 2: How come everybody's like, nah.
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 1: Well, it's because you can't prove it.
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 2: Well, it's a little bit of that, but it's also
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 2: because this YouTube guy is the one talking about it.
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 2: If they admit that he was right, that would drive
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 2: them fucking crazy.
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 1: They had to with the trees.
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 1: They had to move them.
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Sorry. But I think he's right about Atlantis too.
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 2: I think he might be right. There's something about that
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 2: that's weird. It's also weird if you look at it
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 2: from a satellite perspective, the satellite imagery where you get
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 2: to see where it all looks like it's been washed
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 2: over by water. Yeah. Yeah. Like the whole thing looks
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 2: exactly like sand looks when the tide comes in and
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 2: then pulls back.
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 2: It's all rippled and it looks like it was pommeled
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 2: by water.
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which would match the sinking into the sea in
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 1: a single day and night.
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 2: Exactly. And also, like, how many stories from ancient history
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 2: depict floods? There's so many of them. Like, we can't...
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 2: Are we going to ignore all of them as myth?
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 1: Well, the idea that myth doesn't hold any kind of
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 1: use in understanding the past is just ridiculous because... The
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 1: myth is powerful because it's the thing we've collectively remembered
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 1: as a species, isn't it? So why would we dismiss
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 1: that as a kind of, you know, historical record? And
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 1: then you've got examples of like indigenous cultures that remember
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 1: kind of scientific information through myth. I always go to
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 1: this example of these kind of islanders during the tsunami
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 1: in 2004. And they.
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 1: It was the Andaman Islands and the kind of, you know,
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 1: Western scientists or whatever went to the island after the
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 1: Boxing Day tsunami and they were like, oh, everyone's going
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 1: to be dead. Like they're all going to have been
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 1: wiped out by the tsunami. And they were fine because
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 1: they had this myth in their culture that when the
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 1: sea recedes, you get to high ground because then the
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 1: waves are going to come that will eat men. And
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 1: that myth, you know, that has encoded scientific information regarding
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 1: tsunamis and that saved their culture's lives. And they had
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 1: like no casualties compared to, you know, Western or modern
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 1: people who were devastated.
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 2: Isn't that crazy? Everybody else was like, wow, look at
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 2: all this sand.
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and they were like, woo!
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 2: I thought the beach was over here.
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then they all got fucking killed. And then
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 1: these people, with their myths, scientific information, survived.
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 2: There's a guy who was hiking in Russia when the
• 2:02:24
  Speaker 2: most recent tsunami hit, and he was on a cliff.
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 2: And you see the ocean come in and reach the
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 2: top of the cliff where his dog is. See if
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 2: you can find it. It's crazy. Because he films the
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 2: thing coming in. Like this guy is way above the
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 2: ocean when it starts. And then the water is reaching
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 2: where he is with his dog.
• 2:02:46
  Speaker 1: It's just further testament to the power of nature. And
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 1: we just constantly underestimate nature.
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 2: And that was just a little wiggle in the ocean.
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 2: That's just a little wiggle. Just a little earthquake. A
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 2: little eight pointer.
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 1: And then you think about some of the shit that's
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 1: going on during our time on Earth.
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 2: Comet impacts. Watch this. So look how high this guy is, right?
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 2: Way up. Way up, right? And so as he's up here,
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 2: he's seeing the waves come in. Now, he must have
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 2: known that this was going to happen because everybody knew
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 2: this was going to happen. So watch how it's coming
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 2: in now. And now it keeps coming. It keeps coming
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 2: all the way to the top where he is. It's nuts.
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 2: Look at his dog. His dog's like, yo. I would
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 2: be freaking out. I would be running. I wouldn't trust it.
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 2: What if it goes over the top where you're at?
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 2: You're just guessing. Bro, look how high this water gets.
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 2: It's terrifying.
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's out of there now.
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 2: Look at that. The dog's about to get jacked. I mean,
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 2: if you get trapped in that, like, bitch, you are
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 2: not swimming to shore. That's your life. It's over. I
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 2: don't care if you're Laird Hamilton. Well, he might swim
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 2: through that. But isn't that nuts?
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're fucked.
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 2: That water got all the way to the top of
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 2: that hill. And that's... That is like, doesn't even register
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 2: in the news. Yeah, that's just a thing.
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 1: That happens all the time.
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 2: That's a thing that happens. It's just like a thing. Like,
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 2: no big deal. No one will remember that in five years.
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 2: No one will remember that in ten years. But if
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 2: a fucking comet slams into the ocean right there, or
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 2: slams into a glacier, a comet the size of, you know,
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 2: a few city blocks, that's a wrap.
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 2: That's a wrap. You have massive... Flooding like instantaneous millions
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 2: of gallons of water tearing through the landscape No more
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 2: ice cap.
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 1: It's all gone Yeah, and just any kind of culture
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 1: that was possibly around. It's just wipes Completely wiped clean
• 2:04:57
  Speaker 1: from the earth. Yeah record nothing.
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 2: You're Dunsville. There's nothing left and That's real. This isn't
• 2:05:05
  Speaker 2: speculation like that. We look at the Tunguska impact and
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 2: And that was the same sort of comet storm that
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 2: we passed through. Yeah. At the same time of year.
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 2: And it flattened like this enormous chunk of Siberia that
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 2: still doesn't have trees on it. Yeah.
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 1: And that was quite a small thing.
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 2: And it didn't even hit his air impact. Yeah.
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 1: And if that happened over a city, that's like millions dead.
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 2: Millions. So that could be happening on this planet on
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 2: a regular basis. It is. Yeah.
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's kind of fact that we get hit
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 1: by stuff.
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're always finding a crater. We're like, oh, this
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 2: one's 3 million years old. Look at this fucking crater.
• 2:05:45
  Speaker 2: 3 million years ago, everyone's fucked.
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 1: If that estimate is correct, that we're hit by a
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 1: cataclysmic impact once every 100,000 years, then, I mean.
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 1: What does that mean?
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 2: Well, that's where it gets really weird if you're talking
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 2: about like an advanced civilization like millions of years ago.
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 2: Like imagine if there was some sort of advanced life
• 2:06:07
  Speaker 2: form millions of years ago and then something like that hits.
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 1: Have you seen that wheel that's like 300 million years old?
• 2:06:14
  Speaker 1: Or it's like a preserve. It looks just like a wheel.
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 1: Have you seen it? Jamie, could you please search 300
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 1: million year old wheel?
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 2: Are you on TikTok a lot? Like where are you
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 2: getting this one?
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 1: I've just seen it about and like it looks like
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 1: a wheel. It doesn't mean it is a wheel, but
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 1: it looks remarkable.
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 2: Well, there's some of the stuff from.
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the thing. It just kind of looks like
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 1: a wheel and they found it in a mine and
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 1: then they flooded the mine, which is a bit weird, but...
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 1: There's a couple better images of it. I don't know
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 1: if they'll be on this page, but yeah, there you go.
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 1: It's like spokes in a wheel. I mean, it could
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 1: be natural, but I mean, what the fuck is that,
• 2:06:52
  Speaker 1: you know?
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 2: That looks really weird. Now, what are these fossilized tracks?
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, these are also super old. They're called cart ruts.
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 2: Again, found in Turkey.
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 2: Right? Including Sofka, where they cover an area approximately 45
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 2: by 10 miles. And how do you say that one?
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of words today. Cappadocia, home to several
• 2:07:20
  Speaker 2: clusters of tracks. The discovery of these ruts around the
• 2:07:23
  Speaker 2: world has sparked debate regarding their purpose, age, and origins
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 2: in Malta. especially due to the proximity of the tracks
• 2:07:29
  Speaker 2: to megalithic structures and the fact that some are now
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 2: submerged beneath the sea.
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've seen some of them in Malta. I went
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 1: to Malta. And they go off cliffs.
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 2: Many researchers suggest these fossilized lines indicate significant antiquity. So
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 2: if this was like mud that they were pulling these
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 2: things through or dirt that they were pulling these things
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 2: through and then it eventually fossilized into tracks, like what
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 2: else would be the explanation for something that looks exactly
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 2: like tracks? Is there a natural explanation for those kind
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 2: of formations?
• 2:08:02
  Speaker 1: I don't see anyone providing.
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 2: No one has an idea?
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 1: No, I mean, I didn't really know about the ones
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 1: on Malta because I went there and kind of researched it.
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 1: But those ones, they don't dispute. They're definitely man-made.
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 2: They just... Well, hold on. They're definitely man-made because listen
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 2: to what this says. I first saw tracks in stone,
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 2: fossilized car or terrain vehicle traces, usually called cart ruts,
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 2: on neogen plantation surfaces, peneplene in Phrygian Plain in May
• 2:08:31
  Speaker 2: of 2014. They were situated in the field of development
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 2: of middle and late, how do you say that? Miocene?
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 2: Miocene tuffs?
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know, yeah.
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 2: And tuffites. And according to age analysis of nearby volcanic rocks,
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 2: had middle Miocene age of 12 to 14 million years.
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is Turkey, not Malta. But again, I mean,
• 2:08:59
  Speaker 1: you've got these cart ruts that look like, you know,
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 1: some sort of track. And it's millions of years old.
• 2:09:04
  Speaker 1: And then you find that wheel nearby.
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 2: That's... That's fucking crazy.
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 1: And you're like, what is this?
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 2: Look at what this says. Coltipin holds, okay, the region
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 2: that Dr. Coltipin has studied is relatively obscure with guidebooks
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 2: offering little to no information about it. While mainstream researchers
• 2:09:23
  Speaker 2: argue that the tracks are merely petrified remnants of old
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 2: cart ruts left by wheeled vehicles pulled by donkeys or camels.
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 2: Koltepin holds a different perspective. Rejecting these conventional explanations, he
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 2: stated firmly, I will never accept it. I will always
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 2: remember many other inhabitants of our planet wiped from our history.
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 2: His research suggested a deeper, perhaps forgotten history of Earth
• 2:09:49
  Speaker 2: and its past civilizations. Like what?
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 1: Because if it is, that's the Silurian hypothesis. If it
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 1: was millions of years ago, how would we, we wouldn't know.
• 2:09:56
  Speaker 2: You imagine millions of years ago, people had the wheel wheel.
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 1: Or something. Might not be people.
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 2: Something, whatever they were, was pulling things on wheels.
• 2:10:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 2: And they had cart ruts in the ground. So maybe
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 2: they didn't have... This is fucking crazy. Koltepin theorizes that
• 2:10:15
  Speaker 2: the civilization responsible for driving these heavy vehicles likely built
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 2: the numerous identical roads, ruts, and underground complexes scattered across
• 2:10:26
  Speaker 2: the Mediterranean region... more than 12 million years ago. He
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 2: acknowledges that petrification can occur relatively quickly, but points to
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 2: the heavy mineral deposits on the tracks and signs of
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 2: erosion as evidence of a much older timeline. He also
• 2:10:42
  Speaker 2: connects these tracks to surrounding underground cities, irrigation systems, and wells,
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 2: which he believes are millions of years old.
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's like Derinkuyu. So what if Derinkuyu is millions
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 1: of years old and these tracks are related to it?
• 2:10:57
  Speaker 2: This is so crazy. On his website, Koltepin wrote, I
• 2:11:01
  Speaker 2: hope I'm not fucking his name up. We are dealing
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 2: with extremely tough lithified petrified sediments covered with a thick
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 2: layer of weathering that takes millions of years to develop,
• 2:11:13
  Speaker 2: full of multiple cracks with newly developed minerals in them,
• 2:11:17
  Speaker 2: which could only emerge in periods of high tectonic activity. Whoa.
• 2:11:26
  Speaker 1: Pretty crazy, huh?
• 2:11:27
  Speaker 2: That's the craziest thing I've ever seen in my life.
• 2:11:30
  Speaker 2: That's crazy, because I knew those cart ruts existed, but
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 2: I didn't look into them. I didn't know what the
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 2: timeline was. I didn't know that there's anybody that's even speculating.
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 2: That thing looks like a fucking wheel.
• 2:11:42
  Speaker 1: It's right in the same place. So you've got this
• 2:11:44
  Speaker 1: fossilized wheel and these fossilized cart ruts from hundreds of
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 1: millions of years ago.
• 2:11:48
  Speaker 2: The wheel was printed in a sandstone of the roof. Guys, drifters,
• 2:11:54
  Speaker 2: tried to cut away... The find with the pickhammers and
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 2: try to take it out to the surface. But sandstone
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 2: was so strong and firm and having been afraid to
• 2:12:04
  Speaker 2: damage a print, they have left it in place. At present,
• 2:12:08
  Speaker 2: the mine is closed and access to the object is impossible.
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 2: The equipment dismantled and the given layers are already flooded.
• 2:12:20
  Speaker 2: Get in there. Why would you flood that?
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 1: I think it was something to do with like, just,
• 2:12:24
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's like some conspiracy, like hide the wheel,
• 2:12:26
  Speaker 1: hide the wheel. But I mean, maybe it would, but
• 2:12:28
  Speaker 1: I think it's more just like the practice of what
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 1: they would, they will finish their mining thing and they
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 1: found this wheel. They weren't going to excavate the wheel
• 2:12:34
  Speaker 1: because they were like.
• 2:12:34
  Speaker 2: Bro, if that's a real wheel, if, if someone can
• 2:12:38
  Speaker 2: carve that out of there and realize like if scientists
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 2: look at it, if they get a 3d scan of
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 2: it and they go, okay, we have to completely rethink everything.
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 2: If something had a wheel 12 million years ago?
• 2:12:53
  Speaker 1: 300 million.
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 2: 300... What?
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 1: Nuts.
• 2:12:59
  Speaker 2: Like, what are we talking about?
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, it would be like the Silurian hypothesis. It
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 1: would be another... It wouldn't be human unless... I mean,
• 2:13:05
  Speaker 1: we'd have to radically rewrite everything if that was human.
• 2:13:07
  Speaker 2: Right, but what does that mean then? Like, what are
• 2:13:09
  Speaker 2: we talking about?
• 2:13:10
  Speaker 1: Just different intelligence.
• 2:13:11
  Speaker 2: Some other species. So maybe there was something like us
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 2: that lived like medieval humans. That was millions of years ago.
• 2:13:20
  Speaker 1: It's the same problems. If they're living on Earth, they're
• 2:13:23
  Speaker 1: dealing with the same kind of physics. They have to
• 2:13:25
  Speaker 1: move materials around. Why would you not come up with
• 2:13:28
  Speaker 1: the same kind of thing, like a wheel? It's a
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 1: simple invention.
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 2: That's what's interesting, too. We're always finding new dinosaurs. That's
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 2: a common thing. And if these were a type of
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 2: human being or something similar to human beings that buried
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 2: their dead, what are we going to find? What are
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 2: we going to find after 12 million years? Nothing. Nothing.
• 2:13:48
  Speaker 1: Except for maybe a fossilized wheel.
• 2:13:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, or these wheel tracks.
• 2:13:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:13:52
  Speaker 2: Well, what is the conventional explanation of these wheel tracks?
• 2:13:55
  Speaker 1: I don't know. But all I know about the ones
• 2:13:57
  Speaker 1: in Malton, they definitely say they're man-made. I don't know
• 2:14:00
  Speaker 1: about these ones in Turkey. I haven't really looked into it.
• 2:14:02
  Speaker 2: Those are crazy.
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 2: And the fact that they go to underground structures, help me.
• 2:14:08
  Speaker 2: I know. Well, they're near there.
• 2:14:10
  Speaker 1: I don't think they directly lead to Derinkuyu or anything,
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 1: but they're nearby. So then you start to think, what
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 1: if Derinkuyu is like, You know, to be fair, I
• 2:14:19
  Speaker 1: think that's probably man-made. But, you know, it's stone.
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure it's man-made. But, like, what kind of man?
• 2:14:26
  Speaker 1: And it could have been man-adapted. It could have already
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 1: been something there. And we kind of changed it.
• 2:14:32
  Speaker 2: That would be completely fucked if we found out there
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 2: was another type of human that existed that did all
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 2: that 12 million years ago.
• 2:14:40
  Speaker 1: It wouldn't even have to be a human. It could
• 2:14:41
  Speaker 1: be any kind of life. It's just intelligence.
• 2:14:44
  Speaker 2: Right, but there's no evidence that anything other than primates
• 2:14:46
  Speaker 2: have been that capable of manipulating their environment other than primates, right?
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 1: I guess so, yeah.
• 2:14:52
  Speaker 2: We also know that there's certain... We're finding new ones
• 2:14:55
  Speaker 2: all the time, right? This one that they found, I
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 2: keep fucking it up, Homo juliennes, is that it? I
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 2: think so. Antikytheria? Close.
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 1: Antikythera.
• 2:15:07
  Speaker 2: Antikythera. I'm going to get that right. I fucked this
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 2: one up too, the Homo Juliens. But this one was
• 2:15:14
  Speaker 2: larger than us. It had a larger brain capacity. And
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 2: they know that they just... I mean, this was just
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 2: published in December of 2024. So they know that they're
• 2:15:27
  Speaker 2: constantly finding new branches of the human tree.
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 1: And then you got Denisovans or Denisovans, however you pronounce that.
• 2:15:35
  Speaker 1: And they just reclassified that. Dragon Man scholars... Denisovan and
• 2:15:40
  Speaker 1: that's a huge um.
• 2:15:42
  Speaker 2: Yes so Juluensis is that how you would say that
• 2:15:46
  Speaker 2: I've never heard of this yeah because it's really new
• 2:15:49
  Speaker 2: yeah a new big-headed archaic humans bigger than us with
• 2:15:54
  Speaker 2: big ass heads and big brains.
• 2:15:58
  Speaker 1: Well then you kind of get into the thing of
• 2:15:59
  Speaker 1: like giants and stuff and like Could giants have been real?
• 2:16:03
  Speaker 2: Seems like that's a giant. Exactly.
• 2:16:05
  Speaker 1: And there is giant primates that have been confirmed, like
• 2:16:08
  Speaker 1: Gigantopithecus or whatever it's called. And then you have hobbit humans,
• 2:16:11
  Speaker 1: like Homo florensis.
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know how you pronounce that.
• 2:16:15
  Speaker 1: So you have hobbit humans, you have giant primates. Why
• 2:16:18
  Speaker 1: can't you have giant humans?
• 2:16:19
  Speaker 2: I think they did. I think that's why giants are
• 2:16:22
  Speaker 2: always in the Bible. And I think this thing, how
• 2:16:25
  Speaker 2: old is this fossil that they found of Juluensis? So
• 2:16:32
  Speaker 2: this one existed alongside, I believe, alongside at least some
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 2: versions of man. Does it say how old it is? 300,000
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 2: or million? Million.
• 2:16:53
  Speaker 1: So that would just overlap with us then.
• 2:16:55
  Speaker 2: 300,000 years old?
• 2:16:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Right.
• 2:16:59
  Speaker 2: But here's the thing. They don't have a lot of
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 2: this stuff. They don't have a lot of evidence of
• 2:17:03
  Speaker 2: this creature. Right. So they have, I believe it's one site.
• 2:17:07
  Speaker 2: Is that correct? Is there one site where they found this?
• 2:17:11
  Speaker 3: It's partly on a very large skull found in China.
• 2:17:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So how many have they not found? That's the
• 2:17:16
  Speaker 2: real problem with us and this whole fossil record thing
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 2: is that we're dealing with a very limited amount of information.
• 2:17:24
  Speaker 2: It's very difficult to become information. It's very difficult to
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 2: become evidence.
• 2:17:28
  Speaker 1: Especially when you get up to these Again, it's the
• 2:17:30
  Speaker 1: preservation problem. When you get back this far, it's so
• 2:17:33
  Speaker 1: hard to find stuff.
• 2:17:34
  Speaker 2: You should see what this thing looks like when they
• 2:17:36
  Speaker 2: do like a 3D image of a depiction. First of all,
• 2:17:38
  Speaker 2: they make it look super primitive. They cover it with
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 2: hair and give it jack muscles. It looks like this freak.
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 2: But whatever it is, it's way bigger than us. And
• 2:17:47
  Speaker 2: it's a human. And it lived alongside us.
• 2:17:49
  Speaker 3: So.
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 2: David and Goliath, it's right there.
• 2:17:52
  Speaker 1: And there's also the, I think it's called Meganthropus, which is.
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what it looked like, supposedly. Meanwhile, he probably
• 2:17:59
  Speaker 2: had a calculator.
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 1: They make everything look like that. Everyone's stupid and walking
• 2:18:03
  Speaker 1: around in.
• 2:18:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, everyone's stupid. Everyone has a stick in their hand.
• 2:18:06
  Speaker 3: When I was looking up that wheel, I came across
• 2:18:08
  Speaker 3: the London Hammer.
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 2: Oh, I've heard of that too, but I heard that
• 2:18:12
  Speaker 2: that was solved.
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 3: I'm not seeing, I mean, it doesn't make sense. I'll
• 2:18:16
  Speaker 3: just go with that. It was found in 1936, I think,
• 2:18:19
  Speaker 3: but the limestone around it is supposedly 100 million years old.
• 2:18:24
  Speaker 1: Ah, shit, I never heard of this.
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, someone had an explanation for that.
• 2:18:28
  Speaker 3: London, Texas, not England, just so you know.
• 2:18:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, someone had an explanation for that. I don't remember
• 2:18:33
  Speaker 2: what it was.
• 2:18:34
  Speaker 3: I'm looking over at mysteries, a lot of people discussing it.
• 2:18:37
  Speaker 2: Why don't you look up London Hammer debunked?
• 2:18:43
  Speaker 3: I mean, wouldn't someone want to debunk it?
• 2:18:45
  Speaker 2: I know they would, but I want to know if
• 2:18:46
  Speaker 2: they're right. I'm sure someone would want to.
• 2:18:50
  Speaker 3: There's lots of people saying it's real and fake, and
• 2:18:52
  Speaker 3: there's just not a lot of explanation on how it
• 2:18:55
  Speaker 3: was found in the old limestone.
• 2:18:57
  Speaker 2: Okay, radiocarbon dating of the wooden handle and the geological
• 2:19:00
  Speaker 2: analysis have largely debunked the idea of extreme antiquity. More details.
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 2: The artifact, the London hammer, is a metal hammerhead with
• 2:19:07
  Speaker 2: a wooden handle found partially encased in a concretion hard
• 2:19:12
  Speaker 2: compact mass of mineral matter. The claims, some have interpreted
• 2:19:16
  Speaker 2: the hammer's presence in the rock as evidence of advanced
• 2:19:18
  Speaker 2: ancient civilizations or a young earth, pointing to the seemingly
• 2:19:22
  Speaker 2: anomalous placement of a modern-looking tool in ancient rock. Evidence
• 2:19:26
  Speaker 2: against antiquity radiocarbon dating of the wooden handle has placed
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 2: its origin within the historical period, not millions of years.
• 2:19:34
  Speaker 2: Geological processes, the concretion itself is not necessarily ancient. This
• 2:19:38
  Speaker 2: is what I had read. Minerals and solution can harden
• 2:19:41
  Speaker 2: around objects dropped or left in cracks or on the
• 2:19:45
  Speaker 2: surface of soluble rock, according to Gaia. Out-of-place artifacts, while
• 2:19:50
  Speaker 2: the concept of out-of-place artifacts can be intriguing, the London
• 2:19:53
  Speaker 2: hammer doesn't meet the criteria of being considered an out-of-place artifact,
• 2:19:57
  Speaker 2: as its geological context and dating suggest a more recent origin.
• 2:20:03
  Speaker 2: You know, one of the things that I always go
• 2:20:05
  Speaker 2: to with Egypt is those really bizarre-looking things that almost
• 2:20:10
  Speaker 2: look like a part of a machine, like that wheel thing.
• 2:20:16
  Speaker 1: Schist disc, I think.
• 2:20:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's something, I don't remember what it's called, some
• 2:20:20
  Speaker 2: kind of a disc. But it looks like a part
• 2:20:22
  Speaker 2: of something, like almost a fan. You're looking at that like, okay,
• 2:20:25
  Speaker 2: what is that thing doing? Is that a turbine? Is
• 2:20:27
  Speaker 2: that in water? Does something spin? Like, what is that?
• 2:20:30
  Speaker 2: The fact that that's real... That one drives me nuts.
• 2:20:34
  Speaker 1: It literally looks exactly like something that would be part
• 2:20:36
  Speaker 1: of a machine.
• 2:20:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's a replicate, right? Jamie?
• 2:20:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:20:39
  Speaker 3: I mean, they found the pieces. I've seen someone put it,
• 2:20:41
  Speaker 3: they've cranked it up in water, and it can, like,
• 2:20:43
  Speaker 3: displace water in a very unique way.
• 2:20:45
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 2:20:46
  Speaker 3: I don't know if that's, you know, the use of it,
• 2:20:48
  Speaker 3: but that's... See if you.
• 2:20:49
  Speaker 2: Can get an image of the actual one, not a recreation,
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 2: because I think there's been some of them, they've recreated it,
• 2:20:57
  Speaker 2: because I think it's a very valuable thing, so... When
• 2:21:00
  Speaker 2: people are looking at it, I think a lot of
• 2:21:01
  Speaker 2: times they're looking at recreations. Whatever it was, no one
• 2:21:09
  Speaker 2: can figure it out, right? And it's carved out of stone.
• 2:21:12
  Speaker 2: So how? What are you doing? What does that thing do,
• 2:21:18
  Speaker 2: you know?
• 2:21:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:21:19
  Speaker 2: That thing looks like a part of a machine. It
• 2:21:21
  Speaker 2: looks like a part. Like if you have some ancient
• 2:21:24
  Speaker 2: machine and it does a bunch of things. It's a
• 2:21:28
  Speaker 2: beer mixer. Right.
• 2:21:30
  Speaker 3: But, I mean, if you go with Brian Mararescu, they
• 2:21:32
  Speaker 3: had to mix that stuff up somehow.
• 2:21:35
  Speaker 2: That's true, actually, right? But it's probably just one of
• 2:21:40
  Speaker 2: many different tools that were missing from back then. If
• 2:21:44
  Speaker 2: that is just their stuff for making what they call beer.
• 2:21:47
  Speaker 2: Brian Mararescu is the guy who wrote The Immortality Key.
• 2:21:50
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you ever read any of his stuff.
• 2:21:52
  Speaker 2: But a lot of it is about ancient Greece and
• 2:21:55
  Speaker 2: the Eleusinian mysteries.
• 2:21:57
  Speaker 1: Psychedelics again.
• 2:21:58
  Speaker 2: Yes. Psychedelics again.
• 2:21:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:22:00
  Speaker 2: But a lot of it is, you know, what we
• 2:22:02
  Speaker 2: think of as beer and wine. All their stuff was laced.
• 2:22:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:22:05
  Speaker 2: It was all laced with ergot and a bunch of
• 2:22:08
  Speaker 2: other stuff and different psychedelics that we haven't really identified yet. Yeah.
• 2:22:12
  Speaker 1: And they combine that with that kind of spirituality and everything.
• 2:22:16
  Speaker 2: And that's why they built the society that they built.
• 2:22:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:22:20
  Speaker 2: Which is the craziest thing about, you know, our weirdo.
• 2:22:25
  Speaker 2: technological advanced society is disconnected from that because it's illegal.
• 2:22:29
  Speaker 1: Disconnected from the stars as well. Disconnected from light pollution. Yeah.
• 2:22:33
  Speaker 1: And we're just all kind of rushing around and it's
• 2:22:35
  Speaker 1: really hectic life of just like, you know, got to
• 2:22:38
  Speaker 1: do this, got to do this and just not sitting
• 2:22:40
  Speaker 1: back and kind of appreciating. What was that?
• 2:22:43
  Speaker 3: This is from an unknown author on Reddit. That's when
• 2:22:46
  Speaker 3: they put it on a drill.
• 2:22:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, so they made one of it and put it
• 2:22:48
  Speaker 2: on a drill.
• 2:22:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:22:50
  Speaker 2: That's great. If you have a drill. So we're assuming
• 2:22:55
  Speaker 2: that the Egyptians had a drill. I'm assuming they had
• 2:22:57
  Speaker 2: a drill.
• 2:22:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, they have all those drill holes, don't they?
• 2:22:59
  Speaker 1: And they find all these cool drills.
• 2:23:00
  Speaker 2: And people are like, well, that's normal. Yeah. Well, I
• 2:23:03
  Speaker 2: can explain that away.
• 2:23:04
  Speaker 1: There's that spiral thing. I can't remember what it's called,
• 2:23:06
  Speaker 1: but what's it called? Chris Dunn did like a, he
• 2:23:09
  Speaker 1: put like a thread around it to show it was
• 2:23:11
  Speaker 1: a spiral.
• 2:23:11
  Speaker 2: Oh, yes, yes, yes. The groove of it. Yeah. And
• 2:23:13
  Speaker 2: he also estimated the revolutions per minute that would take
• 2:23:17
  Speaker 2: to do something like that.
• 2:23:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:23:18
  Speaker 2: So you're talking about something that like is going, it
• 2:23:22
  Speaker 2: into extremely hard rock and looks like it has some
• 2:23:26
  Speaker 2: extremely hard tip that can cut that rock. Like what
• 2:23:29
  Speaker 2: is it made out of? Yeah, that's it.
• 2:23:31
  Speaker 1: And these are like serious people. These are engineers that
• 2:23:33
  Speaker 1: are saying this kind of thing. And the problem is that,
• 2:23:35
  Speaker 1: you know, archaeologists and Egyptologists are all a certain type
• 2:23:39
  Speaker 1: of person that don't have the expertise in recognizing machined artifacts.
• 2:23:45
  Speaker 2: Also, they're dorks and they don't connect with people because
• 2:23:49
  Speaker 2: they're so arrogant in the way they talk about these things.
• 2:23:52
  Speaker 2: It freaks people out and it makes them not want
• 2:23:55
  Speaker 2: to listen. This is, I think, the thing that frustrates
• 2:23:59
  Speaker 2: them the most about alternative historians like Graham Hancock. He's
• 2:24:03
  Speaker 2: really interesting. He's compelling.
• 2:24:05
  Speaker 1: He's a great communicator as well.
• 2:24:06
  Speaker 2: Great communicator and a wonderful guy. And people love him.
• 2:24:10
  Speaker 2: And they go, oh, fuck that guy. He's a racist.
• 2:24:13
  Speaker 2: He's a this. He's a that.
• 2:24:14
  Speaker 1: And he's more popular than them as well.
• 2:24:16
  Speaker 2: Yes. That's what drives them nuts. But it should be
• 2:24:18
  Speaker 2: exciting to them because it's stimulating people's desire to know
• 2:24:25
  Speaker 2: where we come from. And that's supposed to be your business.
• 2:24:28
  Speaker 2: That's supposed to be what you're into.
• 2:24:29
  Speaker 1: And all he's doing is asking questions and like putting forward.
• 2:24:32
  Speaker 1: I don't think. Graham would ever claim to be certain.
• 2:24:39
  Speaker 1: He's just saying this could be possible.
• 2:24:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's got some ideas that I think are a
• 2:24:43
  Speaker 2: big stretch. And then he's got some ideas that I
• 2:24:47
  Speaker 2: think are dead on the head. But he will tell
• 2:24:49
  Speaker 2: you that himself.
• 2:24:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
• 2:24:50
  Speaker 2: He will tell you that himself. He's just trying to
• 2:24:52
  Speaker 2: figure this out.
• 2:24:53
  Speaker 1: And that's the position he always has come from.
• 2:24:55
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 2:24:56
  Speaker 1: But they kind of see it and they say, how
• 2:24:58
  Speaker 1: dare you claim that you have proof? And I don't
• 2:25:00
  Speaker 1: think he's ever said he's got proof.
• 2:25:01
  Speaker 2: He's such a nice and sensitive person that, like, this
• 2:25:04
  Speaker 2: stuff really fucking hurts his feelings.
• 2:25:06
  Speaker 1: I can imagine, mate.
• 2:25:07
  Speaker 2: It must be hard. And it's not necessary. Everybody should
• 2:25:10
  Speaker 2: be working together. They really should. And the academics... Everyone
• 2:25:15
  Speaker 2: knows that you had a limited amount of information before
• 2:25:18
  Speaker 2: and there's more information now. Like your students are not
• 2:25:21
  Speaker 2: going to hate you if you say, listen, I wrote
• 2:25:24
  Speaker 2: a whole book on this. This is so crazy, but
• 2:25:26
  Speaker 2: I was so wrong.
• 2:25:27
  Speaker 1: They would respect you more. I would respect you more.
• 2:25:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The thing about it is like that book is
• 2:25:32
  Speaker 2: still out there and academics like to point at each
• 2:25:34
  Speaker 2: other and make fools of each other. They really love
• 2:25:38
  Speaker 2: to do that. They really love to. I see them
• 2:25:39
  Speaker 2: do it to each other on Twitter all the time.
• 2:25:42
  Speaker 2: They'll dismiss someone's credentials and say his work is shit.
• 2:25:46
  Speaker 2: And they're like, God, you're such bitches.
• 2:25:49
  Speaker 1: They're brutal. They're brutal to each other. Let alone someone
• 2:25:51
  Speaker 1: who's- To each other.
• 2:25:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:25:53
  Speaker 2: Like high school girls talking shit about each other in
• 2:25:56
  Speaker 2: chat messages. Or high school boys. They do the same thing.
• 2:26:00
  Speaker 2: Or fucking grown men do it, obviously. And these guys
• 2:26:04
  Speaker 2: are just like that. But it's also, I think some
• 2:26:07
  Speaker 2: of these guys are socially stunted. Because they've spent so
• 2:26:11
  Speaker 2: much time with their head in academia and their head
• 2:26:13
  Speaker 2: in books that they don't realize that the rest of
• 2:26:16
  Speaker 2: the world sees that behavior in a very transparent way.
• 2:26:21
  Speaker 2: If you're acting like a bitch online and all you
• 2:26:24
  Speaker 2: do is say mean things about people, that's not– you're
• 2:26:30
  Speaker 2: not hiding what you are. Every reasonable person sees that
• 2:26:35
  Speaker 2: and instantaneously knows what's going on. This is irrational behavior.
• 2:26:41
  Speaker 2: You're calling people racist because they're questioning the timeline of
• 2:26:44
  Speaker 2: human civilization based on evidence, based on really bizarre things
• 2:26:49
  Speaker 2: that no one can explain, based on water erosion on rocks.
• 2:26:55
  Speaker 2: Now you're racist? Like, what are you talking about?
• 2:26:57
  Speaker 1: It's just a way of, like, you know, shutting down
• 2:26:58
  Speaker 1: the ideas.
• 2:26:59
  Speaker 2: That's exactly what it is. It's exactly what it is.
• 2:27:01
  Speaker 2: But it's done by people that are socially stunted and
• 2:27:06
  Speaker 2: they don't understand that Most normal, rational people who see
• 2:27:11
  Speaker 2: them behave this way are never going to listen to
• 2:27:13
  Speaker 2: them again. By doing this bitchy thing, you have discounted
• 2:27:18
  Speaker 2: your own participation in any true intellectual discourse because everybody
• 2:27:24
  Speaker 2: knows you're a bad faith actor now. You're a bad person.
• 2:27:28
  Speaker 2: You're saying things because you're trying to shut down a
• 2:27:30
  Speaker 2: conversation instead of saying, huh, tell me what you did.
• 2:27:34
  Speaker 2: How did you get to this? So what is he saying?
• 2:27:37
  Speaker 2: Water erosion. Whoa. Show me. Show me the water erosion. Well,
• 2:27:42
  Speaker 2: fucking hell, that does look like water erosion. Okay.
• 2:27:45
  Speaker 1: Maybe we should reevaluate this.
• 2:27:46
  Speaker 2: Maybe we should bring you in to teach. What are
• 2:27:49
  Speaker 2: we doing? We're gatekeeping. We're gatekeeping information because it's protecting
• 2:27:54
  Speaker 2: fragile egos of socially stunted people. Yeah.
• 2:27:58
  Speaker 1: And they've always, you know, they.
• 2:28:00
  Speaker 2: Not to say they haven't done great things.
• 2:28:02
  Speaker 1: Exactly, they have done great things.
• 2:28:03
  Speaker 2: They do deserve the credit for that. But we should
• 2:28:05
  Speaker 2: give them amnesty for fucking up.
• 2:28:07
  Speaker 1: But no one... Yeah, I mean, we wouldn't be able
• 2:28:09
  Speaker 1: to talk about these things.
• 2:28:10
  Speaker 2: Without, you know, mainstream. I know. Imagine what Harry in
• 2:28:14
  Speaker 2: the math department, when you've been shitting on his string theory,
• 2:28:17
  Speaker 2: and now it finds, oh, look, look who's wrong about
• 2:28:20
  Speaker 2: the timeline. Yeah. Oh, it's Mike, the fucking genius. Like,
• 2:28:24
  Speaker 2: shitting on each other and throwing coffee at each other.
• 2:28:27
  Speaker 2: They're a bunch of animals. They're just like any other
• 2:28:30
  Speaker 2: group of men, you know?
• 2:28:32
  Speaker 1: It's just a human thing, isn't it? We're all just humans.
• 2:28:34
  Speaker 2: Sure. Chess players cheat. Yeah, exactly. Even genius ones.
• 2:28:39
  Speaker 1: And often like these people, this is like, you know,
• 2:28:41
  Speaker 1: the thing that they've worked on and the kind of
• 2:28:43
  Speaker 1: biggest success they've had in their lives.
• 2:28:45
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 2:28:45
  Speaker 1: They don't want that taken away.
• 2:28:47
  Speaker 2: They don't want it taken away and they don't want
• 2:28:49
  Speaker 2: to deal with those other academics who are going to
• 2:28:51
  Speaker 2: stick it in their face. 40 years, Bob. 40 years
• 2:28:55
  Speaker 2: you've been teaching lies. How's that feel? How about all
• 2:28:58
  Speaker 2: those college kids that left with a real fucked up
• 2:29:00
  Speaker 2: view of human history because of you, Bob?
• 2:29:04
  Speaker 1: Come on, Bob. Yeah, I mean.
• 2:29:05
  Speaker 2: Poor Bob. Poor Bob. Bob is going to just like
• 2:29:07
  Speaker 2: write a note and blow his brains out.
• 2:29:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But I mean, I don't know. I just, I
• 2:29:12
  Speaker 1: hope that things are going to shift over time and
• 2:29:15
  Speaker 1: over the next few decades, we're going to see a big.
• 2:29:17
  Speaker 2: One funeral at a time.
• 2:29:18
  Speaker 1: I guess so. That is the Max Planck quote, isn't it?
• 2:29:21
  Speaker 1: But I hope it doesn't have to take that long.
• 2:29:22
  Speaker 3: No.
• 2:29:22
  Speaker 1: And I wish people would shift their positions, man, because.
• 2:29:25
  Speaker 2: Well, again, I think new people coming in, it's like
• 2:29:29
  Speaker 2: a lot of things. You know, new people come in,
• 2:29:31
  Speaker 2: they have new ideas. And the old dinosaurs... Yeah.
• 2:29:35
  Speaker 1: But I think it's, I don't know, our adherence to
• 2:29:37
  Speaker 1: these ideas has kind of distorted our understanding of history
• 2:29:41
  Speaker 1: and has kind of prevented us from looking for things because,
• 2:29:43
  Speaker 1: you know, we assume that these things, oh shit, sorry.
• 2:29:46
  Speaker 2: No worries.
• 2:29:46
  Speaker 1: Almost unplugged the microphone.
• 2:29:47
  Speaker 2: That wheel is still freaking me out.
• 2:29:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's crazy, huh?
• 2:29:51
  Speaker 2: It's crazy.
• 2:29:51
  Speaker 1: But we just don't look for these things.
• 2:29:52
  Speaker 2: Have you seen any of Jesse Michael's stuff?
• 2:29:55
  Speaker 1: He's the kind of UAP kind of guy, isn't he?
• 2:29:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:29:58
  Speaker 1: I haven't really. I do kind of delve into that,
• 2:30:02
  Speaker 1: but I don't, I mean, I don't like talk about
• 2:30:04
  Speaker 1: or anything, but.
• 2:30:04
  Speaker 2: His latest one is bananas.
• 2:30:06
  Speaker 1: Is this to do with the mummy?
• 2:30:08
  Speaker 2: Yes. Tridactyl mummies in Peru.
• 2:30:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the one.
• 2:30:11
  Speaker 2: Where they've done scans of them and they have a
• 2:30:13
  Speaker 2: fully intact bone structure. Looks like an actual creature. Fully intact.
• 2:30:20
  Speaker 2: Three feet, three toes, different shaped head than us. Whatever
• 2:30:25
  Speaker 2: it is. Like, and also 1700 years old. Like, what
• 2:30:28
  Speaker 2: is that?
• 2:30:28
  Speaker 1: So what's the debunking of that?
• 2:30:30
  Speaker 2: Well, there's some of them that people have made that
• 2:30:33
  Speaker 2: seem to be a complete fabrication. It seems to be
• 2:30:38
  Speaker 2: some of them they've pieced together bones and created like
• 2:30:42
  Speaker 2: a fake artifact and tried to sell it off. But
• 2:30:44
  Speaker 2: then there's these other ones that were found that don't
• 2:30:48
  Speaker 2: look like that at all. They look like they're huddled up.
• 2:30:51
  Speaker 2: One of them has a fetus inside of it. Yeah.
• 2:30:54
  Speaker 2: What the fuck? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And whatever these
• 2:30:57
  Speaker 2: things are, show them the video when you see the
• 2:31:00
  Speaker 2: scans of it. American Alchemy, Jesse Michaels, awesome show.
• 2:31:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's cool, man. I watched his show on here.
• 2:31:06
  Speaker 2: He's awesome.
• 2:31:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:31:08
  Speaker 2: M-I-C-H-E-L-S.
• 2:31:12
  Speaker 1: Isn't there also, I might have made this up, but
• 2:31:14
  Speaker 1: isn't there also like depictions of this in kind of ancient... Yes.
• 2:31:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, is that true? Yeah, ancient artwork. Three-fingered, three-toed people
• 2:31:21
  Speaker 2: with big heads.
• 2:31:22
  Speaker 1: Well, that's weird then.
• 2:31:23
  Speaker 2: Weird. When you see this thing, this thing looks exactly
• 2:31:26
  Speaker 2: like these. This is it. This is an actual scan
• 2:31:30
  Speaker 2: of this mummy. Look at the size of the head.
• 2:31:35
  Speaker 2: Look at the shape of the head. Look at all
• 2:31:37
  Speaker 2: the bones. Look at all the ribs, everything. That's fucking
• 2:31:42
  Speaker 2: bananas Now I'm Jamie show him what it looks like
• 2:31:47
  Speaker 2: before they scan it so they they found them encased
• 2:31:51
  Speaker 2: in I think it's dichotomous earth Is that what it was?
• 2:31:55
  Speaker 1: But how old do they think these things.
• 2:31:57
  Speaker 2: Are some of them are 700 years old and some
• 2:32:00
  Speaker 2: of them are as old as? 1700 years old so
• 2:32:02
  Speaker 2: not that old but look at that thing so this
• 2:32:04
  Speaker 2: thing this thing That is ridiculous. That seems to be
• 2:32:10
  Speaker 2: an actual mummy of a real creature.
• 2:32:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:32:14
  Speaker 2: And here's the thing.
• 2:32:15
  Speaker 1: Is that Jesse there?
• 2:32:16
  Speaker 2: No. Yeah. Jesse's right there. Jesse is doing real journalism
• 2:32:21
  Speaker 2: on this. It sounds crazy to everybody, including me, as
• 2:32:25
  Speaker 2: it comes out of my mouth. But then when you
• 2:32:27
  Speaker 2: look at that scan, not crazy anymore. That's one of
• 2:32:30
  Speaker 2: a smaller one. But the bigger one with the big head,
• 2:32:33
  Speaker 2: that one right there, that one's crazy. Crazy like what
• 2:32:36
  Speaker 2: the fuck is that if that was a person you
• 2:32:38
  Speaker 2: would run for the hills With a head that shape
• 2:32:41
  Speaker 2: with three fingers and three toes and the fact that
• 2:32:44
  Speaker 2: they have artwork depicting these things that goes back.
• 2:32:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, cuz if it's a fake then how are they
• 2:32:49
  Speaker 1: depicting it right?
• 2:32:50
  Speaker 2: What is this like did they have look at look
• 2:32:53
  Speaker 2: at the scans of the foot mmm go back to that?
• 2:32:57
  Speaker 2: This is crazy It's almost if like it defies any
• 2:33:04
  Speaker 2: the possibility of it being fraudulent. It defies it. It's like,
• 2:33:10
  Speaker 2: make that. You show me how you can make that,
• 2:33:13
  Speaker 2: where you can scan it and you see the tissue
• 2:33:16
  Speaker 2: and the ligaments and the tendons and the cartilage and
• 2:33:19
  Speaker 2: the joints, and they're not human-shaped. Yeah, that's pretty crazy.
• 2:33:26
  Speaker 1: I haven't really looked into this, but this is kind
• 2:33:28
  Speaker 1: of nuts.
• 2:33:28
  Speaker 2: If these were real creatures that existed at one point
• 2:33:32
  Speaker 2: in time alongside us, And they're just now finding them.
• 2:33:36
  Speaker 2: Now then you get into ultimate weirdness. Because like, okay,
• 2:33:39
  Speaker 2: what's the Nazca lines for? Because that's the same part
• 2:33:42
  Speaker 2: of the world. Yeah.
• 2:33:43
  Speaker 1: And then there's other weird artwork of things that look
• 2:33:47
  Speaker 1: alien in South America.
• 2:33:49
  Speaker 2: Well, there's one of the Nazca lines. It looks like
• 2:33:51
  Speaker 2: a fucking spacesuit. It looks like a guy in a spacesuit.
• 2:33:53
  Speaker 2: And also, why would you make artwork that you can
• 2:33:56
  Speaker 2: only see from the sky?
• 2:33:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's always puzzled me about that.
• 2:33:59
  Speaker 2: Weird.
• 2:34:00
  Speaker 1: So weird.
• 2:34:00
  Speaker 2: The same part of the world where you're finding these things.
• 2:34:04
  Speaker 1: And they're perfectly done as well.
• 2:34:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:34:06
  Speaker 1: And they're perfect like, you know. lines and shapes.
• 2:34:09
  Speaker 2: And weird geometric drawings and they keep finding new ones
• 2:34:12
  Speaker 2: yeah they do yeah it's very strange.
• 2:34:15
  Speaker 1: I mean South America is just you know it's I
• 2:34:17
  Speaker 1: think South America and Egypt slash Turkey are the two
• 2:34:19
  Speaker 1: kind of areas that are the most kind of you
• 2:34:23
  Speaker 1: know mysterious and like there's so much going on there
• 2:34:25
  Speaker 1: that I think we haven't quite acknowledged how much mystery
• 2:34:29
  Speaker 1: there is still left and yeah fascinating especially when you
• 2:34:32
  Speaker 1: throw this in I mean I haven't really I haven't
• 2:34:34
  Speaker 1: looked into this at all but crazy gonna have to
• 2:34:35
  Speaker 1: start watching Jesse what is that And.
• 2:34:38
  Speaker 2: What if they find out that's not a human at all?
• 2:34:41
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, it doesn't look like a human.
• 2:34:43
  Speaker 2: Right. I mean, it could be.
• 2:34:45
  Speaker 1: I guess it's kind of humanoid.
• 2:34:46
  Speaker 2: It could be some bizarre mutation, right? Like those ostrich
• 2:34:50
  Speaker 2: feet people in Africa. Have you seen that?
• 2:34:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I guess so.
• 2:34:54
  Speaker 2: It's possible that there's some weird mutation and this is
• 2:34:58
  Speaker 2: a bunch of people with big heads and three fingers
• 2:35:00
  Speaker 2: and three toes. But it doesn't seem like it. It
• 2:35:03
  Speaker 2: seems like something different. Also, what are you doing with
• 2:35:07
  Speaker 2: three fingers? You're operating electronics only. You ain't picking shit up.
• 2:35:11
  Speaker 2: You can't do anything. You don't have opposable thumbs. The
• 2:35:13
  Speaker 2: idea that you have something that looks like us that
• 2:35:15
  Speaker 2: doesn't have opposable thumbs.
• 2:35:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's like a big evolutionary kind of a gauntlet.
• 2:35:19
  Speaker 2: What is this thing doing? What are you doing? Unless
• 2:35:22
  Speaker 2: all you do is put your hand on a machine
• 2:35:26
  Speaker 2: and you control everything with telepathy and you just control
• 2:35:29
  Speaker 2: it by touching it. And you don't need, you know,
• 2:35:33
  Speaker 2: maybe it gets to a point where we stop using
• 2:35:35
  Speaker 2: our thumbs and they just fucking drift away. We only
• 2:35:37
  Speaker 2: need a couple of digits.
• 2:35:38
  Speaker 1: So what is like Jesse's theories on what they are?
• 2:35:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, their fingers have an extra digit too.
• 2:35:44
  Speaker 1: What does that mean?
• 2:35:45
  Speaker 2: So you know how like, you know, your finger bends
• 2:35:47
  Speaker 2: in a certain way. They have what is an extra phalange.
• 2:35:50
  Speaker 2: What would you call it? An extra little, you know,
• 2:35:52
  Speaker 2: you have like one, two, three bones. They have a fourth.
• 2:35:58
  Speaker 2: Fourth bone, so you could type quicker with three fingers.
• 2:36:01
  Speaker 2: I don't fucking know. But it's like, that's not us.
• 2:36:05
  Speaker 2: That's something weird. The skull shape is weird, but it
• 2:36:07
  Speaker 2: looks like a real thing.
• 2:36:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if that's real, that kind of changes everything.
• 2:36:13
  Speaker 2: Changes everything. And you don't hear it in the New
• 2:36:15
  Speaker 2: York Times. You're not seeing it in the New York Post.
• 2:36:18
  Speaker 2: It's not in the Wall Street Journal. But they might
• 2:36:20
  Speaker 2: have actually found a life form in mummified form That's
• 2:36:24
  Speaker 2: not us. That looks a lot like these fucking aliens
• 2:36:28
  Speaker 2: that people have been talking about since the beginning of time.
• 2:36:31
  Speaker 1: And so why is no one talking about it except
• 2:36:33
  Speaker 1: for Jesse?
• 2:36:34
  Speaker 2: I don't know, man. Look at that. Look at the
• 2:36:36
  Speaker 2: x-rays of him. Look and see how he has an
• 2:36:38
  Speaker 2: extra little thing at the end.
• 2:36:39
  Speaker 1: That's like an incredible fake if that's a fake.
• 2:36:41
  Speaker 2: That's not our fingers, man. That's a little extra joint.
• 2:36:45
  Speaker 2: And it's not, the fingers aren't even, you would have
• 2:36:47
  Speaker 2: to be like the freakiest long-fingered motherfucker that's ever lived
• 2:36:50
  Speaker 2: to have fingers that long. Those are weird. That's not us.
• 2:36:54
  Speaker 2: That's something different. That's bizarre. Very bizarre. Again, anybody who
• 2:37:00
  Speaker 2: tells you that we know it all, they're full of shit.
• 2:37:04
  Speaker 2: If that's real, you don't know anything.
• 2:37:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:37:08
  Speaker 2: If that's real, if that becomes mainstream, if this is
• 2:37:11
  Speaker 2: from Jesse, and I hope it does, and they do
• 2:37:15
  Speaker 2: genetic testing on this thing, and then someone figures out
• 2:37:18
  Speaker 2: what it is, and it's got different chromosomes than us,
• 2:37:20
  Speaker 2: and different DNA than us, like, Now what?
• 2:37:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
• 2:37:25
  Speaker 2: Now what?
• 2:37:26
  Speaker 1: What are the chances we have got everything? Because these
• 2:37:28
  Speaker 1: people seem to think that we got it all worked
• 2:37:30
  Speaker 1: out now.
• 2:37:31
  Speaker 2: It's zero. The chances are zero.
• 2:37:32
  Speaker 1: It's never been the case. And we've always thought we've
• 2:37:34
  Speaker 1: had it all worked out all the way through history.
• 2:37:36
  Speaker 1: It's always like, oh, now we know the answers. And
• 2:37:38
  Speaker 1: there's always a major paradigm shift around the corner.
• 2:37:40
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 2:37:41
  Speaker 1: So what's around the corner now?
• 2:37:42
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 2:37:43
  Speaker 1: Something like this or the ancient civilization thing.
• 2:37:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, it's so fun, though. It's really exciting. It's
• 2:37:50
  Speaker 2: a really exciting time to find things out, because if
• 2:37:52
  Speaker 2: this had emerged 50 years ago, 75 years ago, there's
• 2:37:57
  Speaker 2: no Jesse Michaels. There's no YouTube. There's no podcast like
• 2:38:01
  Speaker 2: this to talk about Jesse Michaels and send a bunch
• 2:38:04
  Speaker 2: of people over to go watch it. More people know,
• 2:38:06
  Speaker 2: the better. Let's look at this. This might be real.
• 2:38:10
  Speaker 2: This is crazy.
• 2:38:11
  Speaker 1: And that's why it probably is coming out in this
• 2:38:14
  Speaker 1: kind of day and age, because the internet's not been
• 2:38:16
  Speaker 1: around for very long.
• 2:38:17
  Speaker 2: But why isn't MSNBC covering this? Why isn't CNN covering this?
• 2:38:21
  Speaker 2: They should all be covering this. They should all be going,
• 2:38:24
  Speaker 2: look at these scans that this YouTuber, Jesse Michaels, did.
• 2:38:27
  Speaker 2: If this is true, this seems like something that's not
• 2:38:31
  Speaker 2: a human being. I know. It's just too... Aliens are real.
• 2:38:36
  Speaker 3: This is from 2017. Someone had found just a hand. Whoa.
• 2:38:41
  Speaker 3: It's obviously the same hand.
• 2:38:42
  Speaker 2: Bizarre three-fingered hand in 2017. Yeah. Mummified hand found in
• 2:38:48
  Speaker 2: a tunnel in Peru.
• 2:38:49
  Speaker 3: It said these fingers had six bones in each finger.
• 2:38:52
  Speaker 2: Whoa.
• 2:38:54
  Speaker 3: Regular human bone has three.
• 2:38:56
  Speaker 2: Whoa. Dude.
• 2:39:00
  Speaker 1: Mummified hand is made up of bone and skin suggesting
• 2:39:03
  Speaker 1: that it's not fake unless it was somehow made using
• 2:39:05
  Speaker 1: real bones flesh and skin but how would you think.
• 2:39:07
  Speaker 2: How would you do that a long time ago then
• 2:39:09
  Speaker 2: mummify it yeah it's all so strange and that part
• 2:39:14
  Speaker 2: of the world they've had stories about these kind of
• 2:39:17
  Speaker 2: creatures forever that's why they have all this artwork about
• 2:39:19
  Speaker 2: them not only that that is an exact replica like
• 2:39:23
  Speaker 2: when If you ever see the movie Moment of Contact,
• 2:39:26
  Speaker 2: the James Fox movie, it's about an incident in Brazil
• 2:39:32
  Speaker 2: in 1994, 96. The Varginha, Brazil incident where there was
• 2:39:38
  Speaker 2: a crashed UFO. These police officers went to go and
• 2:39:42
  Speaker 2: see this crash. There was some sort of electrical storm.
• 2:39:45
  Speaker 2: And then they found this creature that seemed to have
• 2:39:50
  Speaker 2: been injured from the craft. The guy picks it up,
• 2:39:54
  Speaker 2: takes it in his car. They bring it to a hospital.
• 2:39:57
  Speaker 2: The hospital refuses to treat it. They bring it to
• 2:39:59
  Speaker 2: another hospital. That hospital, they don't know what happened with
• 2:40:03
  Speaker 2: the records or what happened, but they do know that
• 2:40:05
  Speaker 2: the guy who carried it physically died of a horrible
• 2:40:09
  Speaker 2: bacterial infection that they could not cure. They said it
• 2:40:12
  Speaker 2: smelled like sulfur and it had three fingers and three toes.
• 2:40:16
  Speaker 2: It looked like that thing. It had a long head.
• 2:40:19
  Speaker 2: And whatever this creature was that is mummified, it looks
• 2:40:26
  Speaker 2: exactly like what these people were talking about from this
• 2:40:29
  Speaker 2: UFO crash in Virginia, Brazil. It's the entire folklore of
• 2:40:34
  Speaker 2: the town. They have a UFO when you enter into
• 2:40:38
  Speaker 2: the town of Virginia. They have like this giant statue
• 2:40:40
  Speaker 2: of a UFO. There's still people alive to this day
• 2:40:44
  Speaker 2: that live in that town that will tell you the story.
• 2:40:47
  Speaker 2: And you can go across town. You can go here.
• 2:40:49
  Speaker 2: They all have the same story. There's multiple UFOs in
• 2:40:53
  Speaker 2: the sky. One of them crashed. They found two creatures.
• 2:40:57
  Speaker 2: One of them was alive. They think one of them
• 2:40:59
  Speaker 2: was dead. Whatever this crash site was, they bring in
• 2:41:02
  Speaker 2: the movie moment of contact, they bring this police officer
• 2:41:07
  Speaker 2: to the site and he starts weeping. Like if that guy's,
• 2:41:10
  Speaker 2: if he's a liar, he's the greatest actor of all time.
• 2:41:13
  Speaker 2: The guy starts freaking out when he starts telling the
• 2:41:15
  Speaker 2: story of what he found in the 1990s. It like
• 2:41:18
  Speaker 2: brings him back to that moment. The women who saw
• 2:41:21
  Speaker 2: the being, they're like in their 40s now. They were
• 2:41:24
  Speaker 2: little girls when they saw it. And they all have
• 2:41:26
  Speaker 2: the same story.
• 2:41:27
  Speaker 1: And it matches.
• 2:41:28
  Speaker 2: Three-fingered, three-toed, looked like that. Looked exactly like that.
• 2:41:33
  Speaker 1: Man, if I wasn't doing the ancient history thing, I'd
• 2:41:36
  Speaker 1: love to. Talk about this stuff as well.
• 2:41:39
  Speaker 2: It might be the same thing.
• 2:41:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:41:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, you never know. You never know. I'd love to, like,
• 2:41:43
  Speaker 1: maybe make some, you know, connection. But the thing is,
• 2:41:46
  Speaker 1: I just don't want to give anyone more ammunition to
• 2:41:47
  Speaker 1: come after me and shit. Yeah, they're coming after you, buddy.
• 2:41:50
  Speaker 2: Don't worry about it.
• 2:41:51
  Speaker 1: They're probably coming after me after today.
• 2:41:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're going to after all the nonsense that we've talked.
• 2:41:55
  Speaker 2: But it's fun to talk nonsense. And this is definitely
• 2:41:58
  Speaker 2: fun nonsense. But that body's not nonsense. The Varginia thing
• 2:42:01
  Speaker 2: I don't think is nonsense either. It's a really weird one.
• 2:42:04
  Speaker 1: The kind of stories from however long ago match to
• 2:42:06
  Speaker 1: the mummified bodies. That's weird.
• 2:42:09
  Speaker 2: Not just that, but biblical stories about creatures that are
• 2:42:13
  Speaker 2: demons that smell like sulfur.
• 2:42:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:42:16
  Speaker 2: Right? If you're terrified of something and you think you've
• 2:42:18
  Speaker 2: decided that it's a demon because it's actually an advanced
• 2:42:21
  Speaker 2: life form from somewhere else and it smells like sulfur.
• 2:42:25
  Speaker 2: Like whatever they have that got on this guy's skin
• 2:42:28
  Speaker 2: that gave him this horrible bacterial infant. It's all documented.
• 2:42:31
  Speaker 2: The guy died. He was a young, healthy soldier. And
• 2:42:35
  Speaker 2: he's dead within like a couple of weeks.
• 2:42:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not a coincidence.
• 2:42:39
  Speaker 2: They're giving him antibiotics. This is the 90s. This is
• 2:42:41
  Speaker 2: not like the 1800s. You know, they're treating him with
• 2:42:44
  Speaker 2: modern medicine. And he's fucked. And he dies. What the fuck?
• 2:42:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:42:48
  Speaker 2: And this is the guy that was carrying the alien.
• 2:42:50
  Speaker 2: Are you fucking kidding me?
• 2:42:52
  Speaker 1: Mate, I need to look into this more.
• 2:42:53
  Speaker 2: And it smells like sulfur. And it looks exactly like
• 2:42:56
  Speaker 2: a thing that's a real thing. Yeah. Where they have
• 2:42:59
  Speaker 2: a real mummy of these things. Yeah. See if you
• 2:43:01
  Speaker 2: can just get an image, an artist's depiction. So they
• 2:43:04
  Speaker 2: had these kids describe what they saw. And they drew
• 2:43:08
  Speaker 2: this three-fingered, three-toed little, it was almost like a purple-looking thing.
• 2:43:14
  Speaker 1: Do you think that's linked in any way to all
• 2:43:16
  Speaker 1: this kind of mysterious stone construction we find in South
• 2:43:18
  Speaker 1: America that no one can really explain?
• 2:43:21
  Speaker 2: And here we go. What is the image, the thing
• 2:43:25
  Speaker 2: that was curled up in the ground? Yeah, that one,
• 2:43:29
  Speaker 2: that one with the red eyes. No, yeah, that one.
• 2:43:32
  Speaker 2: That's what it looked like. Somebody actually made a sculpture
• 2:43:36
  Speaker 2: of that, what exactly it looked like, and gave it
• 2:43:38
  Speaker 2: to us. We have it at the mothership.
• 2:43:41
  Speaker 1: The thing is, if it was an alien, why would
• 2:43:42
  Speaker 1: it look so human, if that makes sense? Unless it
• 2:43:44
  Speaker 1: came from this planet, I suppose.
• 2:43:46
  Speaker 2: Right, but does it look human? Maybe that's a constant...
• 2:43:52
  Speaker 2: Thing when you evolve from primates and maybe there's a
• 2:43:56
  Speaker 2: thing about the alien gray To that's always been like
• 2:44:00
  Speaker 2: this archetype of what we eventually will become.
• 2:44:03
  Speaker 1: The big looks skinny limbs Yeah, so this.
• 2:44:05
  Speaker 2: Is how those guys described it. This is how they
• 2:44:08
  Speaker 2: described what it looked like Man, that looks an awful
• 2:44:11
  Speaker 2: lot like that creature. Uh-huh the big eyes the whole
• 2:44:14
  Speaker 2: deal the weird spindly body and That drawing right there
• 2:44:20
  Speaker 2: where it's hunched over, the one to the right of
• 2:44:21
  Speaker 2: your cursor, yeah, that's the one that's my favorite. Because
• 2:44:24
  Speaker 2: it's like, what is it? 1996. Like, I don't know.
• 2:44:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know what the hell that is. But what
• 2:44:33
  Speaker 2: if it's real? And what if those things in Peru
• 2:44:37
  Speaker 2: are exactly that thing? And what if, you know, this
• 2:44:40
  Speaker 2: thing has visited human beings multiple times in history and.
• 2:44:45
  Speaker 1: So would you say it's from another planet?
• 2:44:47
  Speaker 2: Who knows? It might be from here.
• 2:44:49
  Speaker 1: That's what I think. Because if it's got the kind
• 2:44:51
  Speaker 1: of similar kind of like primate form.
• 2:44:54
  Speaker 2: It might... Look, if these things are... They're finding these
• 2:44:57
  Speaker 2: mummified remains in Peru. Clearly it was here. Why would
• 2:45:01
  Speaker 2: we assume it's not from here?
• 2:45:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:45:03
  Speaker 2: Like maybe we just have a really inaccurate timeline of
• 2:45:06
  Speaker 2: life on this planet. And maybe some things went undersea.
• 2:45:11
  Speaker 2: Which sounds nuts. But then there's all these fucking... videos
• 2:45:15
  Speaker 2: of things coming out of the water.
• 2:45:16
  Speaker 1: That's where i would hide if i was trying to
• 2:45:19
  Speaker 1: hide or.
• 2:45:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah you know i mean if you've mastered gravity at
• 2:45:22
  Speaker 2: the point where you create like a bubble around everything
• 2:45:24
  Speaker 2: you are and you travel through it without any resistance
• 2:45:27
  Speaker 2: whatsoever and they they've clocked things going underwater that are
• 2:45:30
  Speaker 2: going like 500 knots underwater you have no idea how
• 2:45:33
  Speaker 2: it does that.
• 2:45:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah well it's all kind of um it's like this
• 2:45:36
  Speaker 1: into i mean you probably know more about this than
• 2:45:38
  Speaker 1: me but my only exposure to the kind of uap
• 2:45:41
  Speaker 1: thing was traditionally through i'm a big fan of uh Blink-182,
• 2:45:45
  Speaker 1: and there's Tom DeLonge.
• 2:45:46
  Speaker 2: Oh, I've had Tom DeLonge on.
• 2:45:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you've had him on. You've had Travis on as well.
• 2:45:49
  Speaker 1: You need to get Mark on. He's the third. He's
• 2:45:52
  Speaker 1: complete the set.
• 2:45:53
  Speaker 2: I love Travis.
• 2:45:55
  Speaker 1: I'm in a band.
• 2:45:55
  Speaker 2: Not that I don't love Tom either. I just thought
• 2:45:57
  Speaker 2: he was crazy. Tom's awesome. I thought he was crazy
• 2:45:59
  Speaker 2: when I had him on before. And now I'm like, damn,
• 2:46:01
  Speaker 2: I think he might be on to something.
• 2:46:02
  Speaker 1: Well, he's so cool. He's always been an inspiration for me.
• 2:46:05
  Speaker 1: I make music, and he's been a big inspiration for me.
• 2:46:09
  Speaker 1: But he always got me into... He kind of got
• 2:46:12
  Speaker 1: me into the UAP thing from.
• 2:46:13
  Speaker 2: A while ago. He's all in. Yeah. He's all in.
• 2:46:15
  Speaker 2: But I do have to say that if I wanted,
• 2:46:18
  Speaker 2: if I was the government and I wanted to like
• 2:46:21
  Speaker 2: spread a bunch of crazy stories about UFOs, I'd tell
• 2:46:24
  Speaker 2: them to people like Tom.
• 2:46:25
  Speaker 1: I guess so, yeah.
• 2:46:26
  Speaker 2: And I'd tell them to people like me. I mean,
• 2:46:29
  Speaker 2: I think people do that on this podcast. I think
• 2:46:32
  Speaker 2: some of the information that gets shared on this podcast
• 2:46:34
  Speaker 2: is probably bullshit.
• 2:46:36
  Speaker 1: To kind of like, you know, muddy the waters.
• 2:46:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And to prime people for disclosure.
• 2:46:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:46:43
  Speaker 2: I think the– if I was in charge and if
• 2:46:47
  Speaker 2: I had done the Hal Puthoff thing, you know what
• 2:46:50
  Speaker 2: Hal Puthoff was assigned to do? Yes. So they gave
• 2:46:53
  Speaker 2: him a numerical value for all these different things that
• 2:46:57
  Speaker 2: would be positively influenced by disclosure and negatively influenced. And
• 2:47:01
  Speaker 2: you assign a value 1 through 10 to like what's
• 2:47:03
  Speaker 2: going to happen to religion, what's going to happen to politics, banking,
• 2:47:07
  Speaker 2: all that stuff. And this was during the Bush administration.
• 2:47:10
  Speaker 2: So Bush essentially said to Hal Puthoff, the Bush administration said,
• 2:47:15
  Speaker 2: we have been working on a crash retrieval program. We
• 2:47:19
  Speaker 2: have vehicles that are not from this world. We are
• 2:47:23
  Speaker 2: not alone. If we release this information to the general
• 2:47:28
  Speaker 2: public and disclose it, what will be the negative impact?
• 2:47:32
  Speaker 2: What will be the positive impact? Is it overall positive
• 2:47:35
  Speaker 2: or is it overall negative? And everyone, there was a
• 2:47:38
  Speaker 2: bunch of different independent people that they assigned this task to.
• 2:47:43
  Speaker 2: Everyone came up with much more on the negative than
• 2:47:45
  Speaker 2: on the positive. So they decided to not disclose it.
• 2:47:48
  Speaker 2: This is how it put off story. I can't tell
• 2:47:51
  Speaker 2: you if it's true or not.
• 2:47:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:47:52
  Speaker 1: But why do you think it was negative?
• 2:47:54
  Speaker 2: Just because it's like the shock. Yeah, the shock. The
• 2:47:57
  Speaker 2: complete lack of any real faith in authority figures.
• 2:48:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:48:04
  Speaker 2: Like why would you listen to the president of the
• 2:48:06
  Speaker 2: United States when there's fucking UFOs reading your mind and
• 2:48:10
  Speaker 2: traveling instantaneously here from wherever they're from? Like all of
• 2:48:16
  Speaker 2: our systems of power and control, they all go away.
• 2:48:21
  Speaker 2: You're not in control anymore, clearly. The aliens are in control.
• 2:48:24
  Speaker 2: People would worship the aliens.
• 2:48:26
  Speaker 1: But do you think they're kind of like drip feeding
• 2:48:27
  Speaker 1: us and then at some point it would come out?
• 2:48:29
  Speaker 1: But then isn't that going to happen anyway?
• 2:48:31
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's totally organized because I think most
• 2:48:34
  Speaker 2: things in the government are not totally organized. I think
• 2:48:37
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of chaos going on at all levels
• 2:48:40
  Speaker 2: of the government. I really believe that. And to think
• 2:48:42
  Speaker 2: that in this top secret UFO crash retrieval world, there's
• 2:48:48
  Speaker 2: not a lot of chaos.
• 2:48:49
  Speaker 1: Just humans.
• 2:48:50
  Speaker 2: There's chaos in everything. There's chaos in the FBI. They're
• 2:48:53
  Speaker 2: having problems. The CIA has its own problems. Every organization
• 2:48:56
  Speaker 2: has great people and a bunch of clowns. And it's
• 2:48:59
  Speaker 2: a bunch of nutty people that don't want to lose
• 2:49:02
  Speaker 2: their positions of power and these little struggles, inter-office bullshit
• 2:49:06
  Speaker 2: in every organization with human beings. So for sure, that's
• 2:49:09
  Speaker 2: the same thing with UFO disclosure. Yeah. And then I
• 2:49:14
  Speaker 2: think there's also the problem with if there really is
• 2:49:16
  Speaker 2: a crash retrieval program and it's been going on for
• 2:49:18
  Speaker 2: a long time and it's been going on without congressional oversight,
• 2:49:22
  Speaker 2: that means you've been lying and you've been misappropriating money. Guys, Jehu.
• 2:49:27
  Speaker 2: Everybody's fucked. Yeah. So what's the best way to like
• 2:49:30
  Speaker 2: you gotta get slowly trickle out the information and you
• 2:49:33
  Speaker 2: got to mix it up with a whole lot of
• 2:49:35
  Speaker 2: Bullshit a whole lot of nonsense and cool and then
• 2:49:38
  Speaker 2: fly some drones over people and see how they respond.
• 2:49:40
  Speaker 1: I remember that thing There's something recently about that was.
• 2:49:43
  Speaker 2: The New Jersey thing Yeah, there's giant drones over New
• 2:49:46
  Speaker 2: Jersey and then they try to find them with fighter
• 2:49:48
  Speaker 2: jets The lights would shut off and they was like off.
• 2:49:51
  Speaker 1: What was that? Well, how did they who.
• 2:49:53
  Speaker 2: Fucking know they just brush over that? Yeah, they say oh,
• 2:49:55
  Speaker 2: it's ours. Oh They didn't even tell us exactly what
• 2:49:59
  Speaker 2: was going on, but it was almost like a national emergency.
• 2:50:02
  Speaker 2: It was a national story. I remember Trump saying that
• 2:50:06
  Speaker 2: he was not going to go play golf in New
• 2:50:07
  Speaker 2: Jersey because they were flying in New Jersey.
• 2:50:10
  Speaker 1: Was this pre-election? Was this before he became president?
• 2:50:13
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 2:50:15
  Speaker 1: Was it Biden?
• 2:50:15
  Speaker 2: I think it was during. Was it during?
• 2:50:18
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 2:50:19
  Speaker 2: I think it was. December, January-ish. I think it was December.
• 2:50:25
  Speaker 2: I don't think he was the president yet.
• 2:50:27
  Speaker 3: No, he became president in January.
• 2:50:29
  Speaker 2: Right, right, right. But was it post-election? It was post-election, right?
• 2:50:33
  Speaker 3: I can't remember. Is Mike Benz saying that this has
• 2:50:36
  Speaker 3: happened a couple of years in a row and they
• 2:50:38
  Speaker 3: were waiting for it to happen this year? It did.
• 2:50:40
  Speaker 3: And then he also predicted it would just disappear a
• 2:50:43
  Speaker 3: few weeks later.
• 2:50:43
  Speaker 2: And it did. Yeah. Like, what was that? Maybe it's
• 2:50:46
  Speaker 2: just a grand show that they put on for us
• 2:50:49
  Speaker 2: to distract us from some other stuff. Maybe there's some.
• 2:50:51
  Speaker 2: banking fucking decisions that were going on at that time
• 2:50:54
  Speaker 2: that we would have probably paid attention to.
• 2:50:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, look at the drones.
• 2:50:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's a real thing.
• 2:50:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, of course.
• 2:50:59
  Speaker 2: I would do that if I had some drones. Or maybe...
• 2:51:02
  Speaker 2: If I was trying to pull off some shenanigans.
• 2:51:04
  Speaker 1: Couldn't it just be, you know, like, advanced weapons or
• 2:51:08
  Speaker 1: technology that, you know, we have or, you know, your
• 2:51:11
  Speaker 1: government has that could.
• 2:51:14
  Speaker 2: Most certainly.
• 2:51:15
  Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be alien just for it to be, like,
• 2:51:17
  Speaker 1: more advanced than, like, the kind of public knows about.
• 2:51:20
  Speaker 2: If that makes sense yeah most certainly i i would
• 2:51:23
  Speaker 2: imagine that a lot of what we're dealing with is
• 2:51:26
  Speaker 2: advanced american military craft and probably done through some top
• 2:51:33
  Speaker 2: secret research that was real shady probably a lot of
• 2:51:37
  Speaker 2: people spent a whole lot of money doing this stuff
• 2:51:40
  Speaker 2: and there's probably some like this is the people that
• 2:51:42
  Speaker 2: have gone to s4 and talked about it You can't...
• 2:51:47
  Speaker 2: It's all anecdotal, so you never really know if they're
• 2:51:49
  Speaker 2: telling the truth. But there's been people that have no
• 2:51:52
  Speaker 2: reason to lie that say that they have technology that
• 2:51:55
  Speaker 2: is 40, 50 years past anything that you can imagine
• 2:51:58
  Speaker 2: right now. Yeah. And they already have it. And they've
• 2:52:00
  Speaker 2: been spending shit piles of money making the wildest things
• 2:52:05
  Speaker 2: your mind could ever conceive of. And they already have it.
• 2:52:09
  Speaker 2: And it probably looks super alien when they take it out.
• 2:52:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:52:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, why would they tell us... what the most
• 2:52:15
  Speaker 1: advanced thing they have is. That's not going to be
• 2:52:17
  Speaker 1: public information, is it?
• 2:52:18
  Speaker 2: Exactly, exactly. So even current history is confusing.
• 2:52:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:52:26
  Speaker 2: So the idea of you knowing exactly what happened 5,000
• 2:52:29
  Speaker 2: years ago, shut up, bitch. You don't know. You definitely
• 2:52:32
  Speaker 2: don't know if you find a 12-million-year-old wheel.
• 2:52:35
  Speaker 1: Like 300-million-year-old wheel.
• 2:52:38
  Speaker 2: It's all too nuts.
• 2:52:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. We don't know what's going on now, so
• 2:52:41
  Speaker 1: how can we know what's going on?
• 2:52:43
  Speaker 2: So the wheel was 300 million years, but the cart
• 2:52:46
  Speaker 2: tracks are what, 12 million years?
• 2:52:48
  Speaker 1: That's what this guy says anyway.
• 2:52:49
  Speaker 2: Listen, it's all fun. It's all fun, and it's very interesting,
• 2:52:53
  Speaker 2: and I'm really glad you're out there because I have
• 2:52:55
  Speaker 2: binge-watched your show. You do a great job. It's really
• 2:52:58
  Speaker 2: informative and interesting and speculative and fascinating because I just
• 2:53:02
  Speaker 2: love the subject, and I think you just do a
• 2:53:05
  Speaker 2: great job. So I hope you get a lot of
• 2:53:07
  Speaker 2: views and you keep doing it, and I'm happy that
• 2:53:09
  Speaker 2: you're doing it, and I'm really happy that you came here.
• 2:53:12
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Joe. I mean, it's been a great honor
• 2:53:14
  Speaker 1: to be here, to be out in Austin. I've loved it.
• 2:53:16
  Speaker 1: It's incredible. What an experience. And yeah, it's been really
• 2:53:20
  Speaker 1: fun talking to you and I'm super appreciative of the opportunity.
• 2:53:23
  Speaker 1: So thanks so much.
• 2:53:24
  Speaker 2: My pleasure. So tell everybody how to find you, social
• 2:53:28
  Speaker 2: media stuff.
• 2:53:29
  Speaker 1: Just put my name and I'm Michael Button and I'm
• 2:53:31
  Speaker 1: on YouTube, I guess. And they'll probably find me if
• 2:53:34
  Speaker 1: I'm doing my job correctly. That's me on the screen.
• 2:53:36
  Speaker 2: Michael Button one.
• 2:53:37
  Speaker 1: Michael Button one.
• 2:53:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:53:38
  Speaker 1: There's someone else out there who's got my name.
• 2:53:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So don't go to Michael Button. Michael Button one.
• 2:53:44
  Speaker 2: That seems so silly.
• 2:53:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:53:46
  Speaker 1: Fuck the other Michael Button. Come to me.
• 2:53:47
  Speaker 2: Maybe he's a nice guy. Yeah.
• 2:53:49
  Speaker 1: He's got your name.
• 2:53:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah. All right. Well, thank you, brother. Appreciate it. Thank
• 2:53:52
  Speaker 2: you for being here. Bye everybody. Bye.