Latest / Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast / The Mandalorian Chapter 19: The Convert

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The Mandalorian Chapter 19: The Convert · Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello there, welcome to the ned Palty.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Hi.
• 0:06
  Speaker 3: This is Nick and Astasu, story editor on Star Wars,
• 0:09
  Speaker 3: The Clone Wars and Star Wars bad Batch, and you
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: are listening to aggressive negotiations.
• 0:22
  Speaker 4: Well, hello man, welcome to aggressive negotiations.
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• 0:42
  Speaker 1: hosts here, Matthew Rushing and with me as he is
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  Speaker 1: every single episode, the one, the only, the brilliant, my friend,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Jedi Master John Mills.
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  Speaker 5: Thank you for such high praise, Jedi Master Rushing. And
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• 2:21
  Speaker 1: We would love to be able to reach more Star
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Wars fans out there, But John, we are getting for
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: We are getting ready for the Mandalorian and Grogu. The
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: film is coming out here in just a month. In fact,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: in a month from today, basically it'll already be out.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: And so we've been walking through all the episodes that
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: we hadn't talked about yet, and we're in season three
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: at this point, and we have reached the episode The Convert,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: and so first I wanted to just ask you, how
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: do you feel like this episode starts, because this one
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: actually legitimately picks up right where we left off in
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: the previous episode, and so I wanted to see how
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: you thought this episode did like that, because we don't
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: get that a ton in the Mandalorian, where there's like
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: this direct continuity that like, we just literally picked up
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: seconds after we left off the previous episode.
• 3:22
  Speaker 5: Well, I love the way it starts because it picks
• 3:25
  Speaker 5: up right where where it left off, and I think
• 3:28
  Speaker 5: we get an absolutely magnificent battle sequence to start it
• 3:33
  Speaker 5: off that was really great. I love the photography in it,
• 3:36
  Speaker 5: I love the effects in it. I thought it was
• 3:38
  Speaker 5: a thrilling way to start everything. I also thought that
• 3:42
  Speaker 5: it felt like it was more the resolution to the
• 3:44
  Speaker 5: previous episode. It speaks to some of the story editing
• 3:50
  Speaker 5: that has irked us already by this point in the season,
• 3:54
  Speaker 5: Like at the end of the first episode, where like,
• 3:56
  Speaker 5: this really feels like the beginning of the second episode.
• 3:59
  Speaker 5: That's the ending here where he's seeing Bocatan it and
• 4:02
  Speaker 5: so things have Now we're three episodes in and for
• 4:06
  Speaker 5: the second time, it feels like things got chopped off
• 4:08
  Speaker 5: in an odd spot like they did. They couldn't decide
• 4:11
  Speaker 5: how to end and start the next episodes, and they
• 4:14
  Speaker 5: were like, you know what, we'll split this scene in half.
• 4:16
  Speaker 5: And I admire in one sense the commitment to keeping
• 4:21
  Speaker 5: it like the serials that obviously inspired Star Wars, but
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: it's not a clean cut, and that's you know, that's
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: where I come with it. So love the opening, but
• 4:33
  Speaker 5: it's not a clean break to have the way the
• 4:37
  Speaker 5: previous one ended and this one begin, it doesn't feel
• 4:41
  Speaker 5: it feels a little messy.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you feel the same way.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: You know, I would say that the way that it opens,
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: you know, is just incredibly exciting. The space battle then
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: you know, down into an aerial battle on the planet,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: and you know, whizzing through all of these canyons on
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: this planet here that Bocaton's castle is on, I mean
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: one not only does it look fantastic, but it's incredibly
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: well shot, and it's very exciting, and all of that
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: is great in that sense, and I think I do
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: get what you're saying, where it's like it almost feels
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: as though this is a holdover from the previous episode.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: And yet I think the thing about this is is
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: that it's so incredibly exciting, and yet I guess we
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: just have to start talking about it.
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: All of a sudden, this is might might be the
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: gear shift of all gear shifts in an episode. I mean,
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: if you're not having whiplash, if you don't feel like
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: you need traction after this episode, I yeah, I don't know.
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: Apparently you weren't really paying attention, because all of a sudden,
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: we just shift to Chorussant in this you know storyline
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: with doctor Piershing and.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: What's her freaking name? Oh, Kane and Kin who are
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: a part of this supposed or at least supposedly a
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: part of this new Republic reclamation project for people who
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: were once in the Empire and now we're serving the
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: new Republic. And I don't know, man, it's the beginning
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: to me is incredibly strong, and even though I can
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: sense that there's kind of a little bit almost like
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: a holdover. It feels like and maybe you should have
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: just had this as part of the previous episode and
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: then maybe just have this whole episode, you know, be
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: this story. I don't know, but I think by not
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: finding a way to edit better to make these two
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: things feel more like they're connected. It's just it's the
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: one of the oddest things that I've ever seen in
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Star Wars storytelling.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: You know, yes, I.
• 7:26
  Speaker 5: Think that the the the gearshift is bizarre, and I
• 7:31
  Speaker 5: think actually it it explains why they break it up. Weirdly,
• 7:36
  Speaker 5: is because if they just started on Corruscant, everybody would say,
• 7:40
  Speaker 5: what the heck is going on? Because they basically bracket
• 7:43
  Speaker 5: this story. You know, what they do to the Mandalorian
• 7:45
  Speaker 5: here is they do to the Mandalorian what they did
• 7:48
  Speaker 5: to the Book of Boba Fet, which is they suddenly
• 7:51
  Speaker 5: insert this story in an episode that has nothing to
• 7:54
  Speaker 5: do with why you're watching the show, and you go, oh, okay, Now,
• 7:59
  Speaker 5: in the Book of Boba Fett, you meet Luke training
• 8:03
  Speaker 5: Grogu and the Mandalorian goes to get them, and Ahsoka
• 8:06
  Speaker 5: is there. So it's like you don't mind it as
• 8:08
  Speaker 5: much because you're like, Okay, I want more of this anyway.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Because you care about the story and the characters.
• 8:16
  Speaker 5: But the thing is, I care about this idea of
• 8:20
  Speaker 5: the Republic working to assimilate imperials back, and I see
• 8:25
  Speaker 5: a lot of story potential with that. The problem is
• 8:29
  Speaker 5: that I think this episode is yet again an instance
• 8:32
  Speaker 5: of them trying to figure out how to make plot
• 8:36
  Speaker 5: lines from Rangers of the New Republic happen. Without having
• 8:40
  Speaker 5: Rangers of the New Republic. You're having a storyline that
• 8:45
  Speaker 5: has to do with the dysfunction of the Republic and
• 8:51
  Speaker 5: the bureaucracy and the difficulty of ruling afterwards. All very
• 8:55
  Speaker 5: interesting things, but nothing that directly relates to the Mandalori
• 9:00
  Speaker 5: in the sense that if you took this single episode
• 9:04
  Speaker 5: and you chop these things up, these bits, and sprinkled
• 9:09
  Speaker 5: them through several episodes, cut away, have a parallel storyline,
• 9:14
  Speaker 5: and then figure out a way to make them directly
• 9:17
  Speaker 5: relatable to each other, then you have a B the
• 9:21
  Speaker 5: storyline that works and goes for more than one episode.
• 9:25
  Speaker 5: Diverting and going to that B plot line and never
• 9:29
  Speaker 5: cutting away from it, never.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: Leaving it is a huge mistake. It's a huge mistake.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: So while I like what they do with doctor pershing.
• 9:40
  Speaker 5: I'm doing, including the fact when I watched this with
• 9:42
  Speaker 5: my kid, even she picked up when he did his
• 9:46
  Speaker 5: ear lobe thing when he's considering what you know, he
• 9:50
  Speaker 5: gives it during the speech, and she picked up on
• 9:52
  Speaker 5: it being a nervous tick of his. She goes, Oh,
• 9:54
  Speaker 5: he's doing his earlob thing. He's having a problem.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: I'm like that. There you go. Visual language is worth
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: can hear. But it's just it's.
• 10:03
  Speaker 5: From a baseline perspective of I look at this show
• 10:10
  Speaker 5: in a bottle and I say, I have a Mandalorian
• 10:14
  Speaker 5: scene at the beginning, and a Mandalorian scene at the end,
• 10:17
  Speaker 5: and then a different show in between.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: It's a weird sandwich.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think that's a really great way
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: to put it. You know. It's like, you know, expecting
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: a Perstrami sandwich and then all of a sudden somebody
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: giving you like below y. You know, it's just like, well,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: it's and I like what you said, because this is
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: not an uninteresting story and it's not something that doesn't
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: connect with things later on in the season. I think
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: that you're exactly right, is that they have become so
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: beholden to the idea that the show has to have
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: a certain structure that they're hamstringing themselves to try and
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: fit into that structure. And I think you're right too.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: They could possibly be doing so because they're feeling like
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: they had to add bits of story in that are
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: going to fill in things, you know, all over the
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: place where it would have been possibly in another show.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: So this would have made more since I love your idea,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: and I from the moment this season was airing originally,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: I felt the exact same thing that if you were
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: just to begin to tell this story more like they
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: do say and or right where it's all these intercunning
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: stories and they're all related to one another, but they're
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: all playing parallel until they meet at some point in
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: the season. That's what needed to be happening in this season,
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: and there's nothing wrong with that because the show itself
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: is moving into a much larger world, right We are
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: expanding as this show which once was just about Grogu
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: and Mando, but it's expanded now to include all sorts
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: of different characters in the larger framework of the Star
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Wars galaxy and what's happening. I think it would have
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: been great if they would have just expanded their own
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: thought process on how this show is presented it and
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: been okay with Okay, we're getting into being even more
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: serialized than we have been before, and that's okay because
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: that's the story that we're telling. And I feel like
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: we talk about this all the time, but it just
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: feels like all of these streaming shows are just afraid
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: to actually be free of the constraints of television in
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: the sense of like we've got to be this many minutes,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: We've got to have this many commercial breaks, that the
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: episodes all have to be this long, you know, the
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: structure of storytelling has to be like this, Like, no,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: you don't have to do any of that. The only
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: constraints are the ones you're putting on yourselves, and a
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: lot of times it feels like they're unnecessary. They're unnecessary constraints.
• 13:37
  Speaker 5: But the thing is, I want to ask you, because
• 13:39
  Speaker 5: you know, justifiably we're pointing out all of these flaws.
• 13:43
  Speaker 5: I gotta know, Okay, just looking at the Doctor Pershing episode,
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: that part of the episode that core, what does work
• 13:52
  Speaker 5: for you? What do you like when you think back
• 13:54
  Speaker 5: on that specific storyline, What is it that you look
• 13:58
  Speaker 5: at and you say, you know what I'm I'm I'm
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: kind of glad, you know, as many problems as I
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: have with it, I'm glad I saw this, or I'm
• 14:04
  Speaker 5: glad that this happened, or you know, at least I
• 14:07
  Speaker 5: knew how Doctor Pershing wound up. Like, what do you
• 14:09
  Speaker 5: walk away with from that part of it?
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: I think the good thing is that is the stuff
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: that you had mentioned earlier. I mean, just the storyline
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: in general. You know, we're seeing the cracks and the
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: New Republic already handling this incorrectly. The fact that you're
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: just dismantling their own fleet at this point is just
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: ridiculous when you know there are still all of these
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: Imperial warlads, you know, on the periphery, you know, looking
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: to cause havoc. We've also already seen, you know, this
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: season and the end of last season where the New
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Republic is having a hard time patrolling these sectors because
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: they don't have enough ships and stuff. So it's just
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: like the short sightedness of the New Republic is completely
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: on display here. And I think that's great, and so
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: I really like all of that. And I think again,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: just like you mentioned the storyline for Doctor Persh and
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: what's going on in the New Republic is fascinating here.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: The problem is that for me, as much as I
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: like all that, it's so short changed by being so
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: truncated into this like twenty minute section of a thirty
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: minute episode, that it doesn't feel like I have enough
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: time to be able to really experience what they're trying
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: to have me experience.
• 15:26
  Speaker 5: But you know what also would have made it better
• 15:28
  Speaker 5: and would have made it feel more related to the
• 15:30
  Speaker 5: main storyline is if you had doctor Pershing have some
• 15:35
  Speaker 5: sort of small memento, a picture, anything, whatever, you want
• 15:39
  Speaker 5: the memento to be, piece of cloth that's identifiably related
• 15:43
  Speaker 5: to Grogu showing him thinking about Grogu, establishing that what's
• 15:49
  Speaker 5: under his skin. He still feels guilt about Grogu and
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: he felt he was helping the galaxy with that, Like
• 15:57
  Speaker 5: he's showing that misguided scientist sort of thing where he
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: doesn't understand what he was doing was terrible, and that's
• 16:03
  Speaker 5: why he's easy to manipulate. It's not just that these
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: pining away for when things were better and he could
• 16:08
  Speaker 5: do his science. It's that he has a we have
• 16:10
  Speaker 5: a physical representation. I think if you add that element in,
• 16:15
  Speaker 5: it works so well because then you still feel like
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: it's rooted to Grogu. That's what's missing is we know
• 16:26
  Speaker 5: it's he worked with you know, the the client, and
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: he had history with Grogu and everything like that, and
• 16:34
  Speaker 5: he didn't want anything bad to happen to Grogu. I
• 16:37
  Speaker 5: think if you had just a little a little flare
• 16:40
  Speaker 5: like that, it would be it would have made it.
• 16:43
  Speaker 5: It would have made every problem.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: I have with the episode go away.
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: Honestly, I would I would have had no qualm with
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: it because I would have had that reminder in each scene.
• 16:53
  Speaker 5: Oh yes, this has everything to do with what wuff
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: Gideon was trying to do, which was tied to Grogu,
• 16:58
  Speaker 5: and we're finding out more about out what happened to
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: Grogu and what they were trying to do to Grogu.
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: I would also think that it would have been interesting.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: To have had. And you'll forgive me.
• 17:12
  Speaker 5: I always forget his name, the pilot who goes and
• 17:15
  Speaker 5: pleads the case Encoruscant to Tim Meadows. Yeah, yeah, please
• 17:22
  Speaker 5: forgive me. I always forget his name. I can't help it.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: I'm not great with some of the side names and
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: everything like that, because I love the character.
• 17:30
  Speaker 5: But I would have loved and you know that this
• 17:33
  Speaker 5: is an idea that I had years and years ago,
• 17:36
  Speaker 5: So I would have loved some sort of sop to
• 17:41
  Speaker 5: either the pilot or anybody else having an argument in
• 17:45
  Speaker 5: that office saying, why are we even taking the Star
• 17:47
  Speaker 5: Destroyers apart? We could be using them to keep the
• 17:51
  Speaker 5: peace until we're a little more stable. We don't have
• 17:55
  Speaker 5: to build new ships, we don't have to leave ourselves exposed,
• 17:58
  Speaker 5: and have that argument with somebody saying no, the symbol
• 18:01
  Speaker 5: of the Star Destroyer is terrible, and somebody's like, no,
• 18:04
  Speaker 5: just repaint them. And so when they go to the
• 18:06
  Speaker 5: Star Destroyer, we're thinking in those terms of like, well, yeah,
• 18:09
  Speaker 5: is this practical? Would I have just reused the ships
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: and just carried that over and said I repainted them
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: with blue so that people know they're good Star destroyers?
• 18:19
  Speaker 5: That sort like that sets up interesting things. You insert
• 18:22
  Speaker 5: something like that, and I know there may be somebody
• 18:26
  Speaker 5: who loved this episode who's listening and saying, stop trying
• 18:28
  Speaker 5: to rewrite the episode. But I'm just saying, little flourishes
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: like that make the episode work better in my mind,
• 18:38
  Speaker 5: And I'm not even changing what they're talking about. I'm
• 18:41
  Speaker 5: making little, tiny additions that I think would have made
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: the episode feel like more of the story that we're
• 18:49
  Speaker 5: here for.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I think your idea. I looked it up.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: His name is Carsoneva, and you know, I think having
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: him in the episode would have been really really interesting.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: I think it would have been beneficial. And again, I think,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: you know, if you had made this whole episode about again,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: pulling him in would have been a perfect way to
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: have this whole episode be about stuff that's connected to
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: what's happening on the outer rim, but pulling it in
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: and saying, you know, again, as we're getting larger, we're
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: you were expanding the scope of the story here for
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: the Mandalorian. You could have really made this make sense.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: As you were talking about earlier, it's like, oh, man,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: if you just did this episode, it's all on courus on.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: It's like, there is a way to do that and
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: completely tie it into everything that's going on and also
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: helped create the exasperation of somebody like Teva who's on
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: the front lines and all of that. You know, I
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: think you know him and trapper Wolf, who's u Dave
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Filoni's character, It's like you have them there before the Council,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: you know, with mon Mathma and the rest. You know,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: you could really make this really really interesting and then
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: have that connected with what's going on with Pershing, and
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: but again I think you know, when you have everything
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: be so confined. The frustrating part about this is is
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: that what they're doing with the new Republic, although interesting.
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: Feel so like unexplained to you.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: Is like, why would anybody be making these decisions in
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: this new Republic at all? Because there's not a lot
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: of there's not enough context, you know, And that's the
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: thing that's really needed, I think in this episode is
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: more context as to why these things are happening.
• 20:55
  Speaker 5: But I think that is skittishness, whether it's from on
• 20:59
  Speaker 5: high or what have you. I think that is skittishness
• 21:02
  Speaker 5: to bring in quote unquote the politics that certain segments
• 21:08
  Speaker 5: of viewers, fan base, whatever we're so vocally rejecting about
• 21:15
  Speaker 5: the prequels. I think that creates a skittishness to provide
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: the context you're talking about, at least in greater quantity.
• 21:24
  Speaker 5: And I think that winds up affecting it because what
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: you're talking about is you're talking about inserting the exact
• 21:30
  Speaker 5: stuff that was in the prequels, of seeing the larger
• 21:34
  Speaker 5: arguments in the Senate and those sorts of things, which
• 21:39
  Speaker 5: plenty of people would say, oh, that's not why I
• 21:41
  Speaker 5: tune into Star Wars, and it's I don't know it
• 21:44
  Speaker 5: is why I tune into Star Wars. But you know, hey,
• 21:47
  Speaker 5: I I want to say that my least favorite thing
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: about the entire correscant arc is that's in this episode
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: is those glowing popsicles, because I think those glowing popsicles
• 22:06
  Speaker 5: could have been done so well as a practical effect
• 22:10
  Speaker 5: by just having a damn light bulb inside like a
• 22:13
  Speaker 5: glass or ice thing, and instead of trying to do
• 22:17
  Speaker 5: it in post. I thought it was just such an
• 22:20
  Speaker 5: odd choice the way they decided to do it, because
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: you can always tell when somebody is consuming something that's
• 22:26
  Speaker 5: not truly there, and it always annoys me. Of course,
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: watch somebody come in and say, well, it actually was
• 22:34
  Speaker 5: on set, but no, you know what I'm talking about, right, Like,
• 22:37
  Speaker 5: I'm not. I'm not, you know, hallucinating. Like I looked
• 22:41
  Speaker 5: at that thing and I was like, even rewatching it,
• 22:44
  Speaker 5: I was like, man, there was a practical onset where
• 22:48
  Speaker 5: they could have done this that would have worked so
• 22:50
  Speaker 5: much better. Why would you be so stubborn as to
• 22:52
  Speaker 5: not do it? But you know that's neither here nor there.
• 22:56
  Speaker 5: But it is my least favorite part of that of
• 22:59
  Speaker 5: that bit.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it also doesn't help that that sequence
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: feels so of the volume in the worst of ways,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: and so you know, it never really feels like they're there,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: and you know, it's it's it's it doesn't help sell it.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: I do want to ask you, Obviously, Katie O'Brien has
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: already been a part of the Mandalorian, We've already seen
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: her on the you know, Gideon Ship.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Hmm.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you just about her performance and
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: whether or not you felt like she did a good
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: job at portraying this character and has the nuances needed
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: to really make this pop.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: My problem is not at all with her performance.
• 23:56
  Speaker 5: My problem is with how they decided to cut her
• 24:00
  Speaker 5: scenes in. I think that she gives off the right
• 24:05
  Speaker 5: amount of audience knows she's bad, while pershing can't piece it,
• 24:10
  Speaker 5: doesn't piece it together sort of thing. You always get
• 24:13
  Speaker 5: the icky vibe from her, and I think she does
• 24:16
  Speaker 5: a decent job of conveying it. Where I think she's
• 24:20
  Speaker 5: really undercut is in the final scene where she turns
• 24:25
  Speaker 5: up the machine and stays there and watches. I think
• 24:29
  Speaker 5: that would have played a lot better and been much
• 24:31
  Speaker 5: truer to the way she played it in the rest
• 24:33
  Speaker 5: of the episode, to walk out with the other guy
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: and see her hand like brush on the dial, turning
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: it up as she leaves, so that you get the
• 24:48
  Speaker 5: impression that she's very good and very adept at making
• 24:51
  Speaker 5: little tiny things happen that can't really be traced back
• 24:55
  Speaker 5: to her and somebody says, oh my gosh, I did
• 24:57
  Speaker 5: something wrong. So she's the ultimate sabotage sort of thing,
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: as opposed to having her eat the biscuit watching him.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Suffers.
• 25:09
  Speaker 5: It's one of those things where you're left at the
• 25:10
  Speaker 5: end of the episode you're like, well, okay, I guess
• 25:12
  Speaker 5: her covers completely blown then, because there's no way somebody's
• 25:15
  Speaker 5: not going to piece together she did something here, which
• 25:18
  Speaker 5: maybe is the point, but I don't know that at
• 25:20
  Speaker 5: the end of the episode, and so it's an unsatisfying
• 25:25
  Speaker 5: way to resolve that entire thing for me.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, am I way off?
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: No?
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: I think that your comment on the end is fantastic.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: I think it would have been so much better if
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: it had felt like it was an unintended accident on
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: her part in that sense, and yet you know she
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: did it on purpose, but that there's so much more
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: wonderful nuance to that, you know. And again I think
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: there's just not enough context in the episode. And this
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: is where I think the inner cutting of story lines
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: you could have been so much better in the sense
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: that you could have told the story about her being
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: planted there by Gideon, you know, and all this stuff.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: I think that would have been much more interesting to
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: have accomplished in that, you know, she's being sent there
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: because Pershing needs to die before he gives up any
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: secrets to the New Republic that they don't want him
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: giving up, you know. I think she's fine in the episode.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it's necessarily her specifically, but I
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: do just feel like the character is underserved in the
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: sense that the writing never allows her to play better
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: nu once or you know, because like in this again
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: the sory when they're you know, at the mountaintop there
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: is just like she the writing doesn't allow her to
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: I think feel more natural in that and I don't
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: know if that's her or if it's just the writing.
• 27:06
  Speaker 5: So yeah, yeah, yeah, I get I get with you
• 27:13
  Speaker 5: on that, but like, okay, so, but then suddenly we
• 27:16
  Speaker 5: get our second gearshift head snap whiplash thing, and we
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: go back suddenly at the end where Bo and Dinn
• 27:28
  Speaker 5: you know, get back to you know, the the covert,
• 27:34
  Speaker 5: and we have this amazing moment where we find out now, suddenly,
• 27:42
  Speaker 5: Boca ten, It's like, yeah, you haven't taken your helmet
• 27:44
  Speaker 5: off and you were in the living waters.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: Guess what.
• 27:46
  Speaker 5: Now you're a real Mandalorian by our standards too. And
• 27:49
  Speaker 5: I think that's that's a crazy way to the end
• 27:51
  Speaker 5: of the episode because I remember like going, oh wow,
• 27:56
  Speaker 5: did they really just do that? That's so cool? Like
• 27:58
  Speaker 5: did you have the same sort of like oh wow factor?
• 28:01
  Speaker 5: Did it help alleviate like did the strong ending help
• 28:05
  Speaker 5: you in the moment when you watched it feel better
• 28:08
  Speaker 5: about the episode as a whole.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: I think the ending is great, one hundred percent agree
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: with you. I think that the way that it ends,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: the implications for Bocaton. I think even just the way
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: that it has implications for the rest of the season.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: You know, she's already mentioned this idea that Mandalorians have
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: spent more time trying to kill each other and in
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: their disagreements than fight their other enemies. And so, you know,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: by having her become part of the covert and to
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: be accepted by the children of the Watch, I think
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: is phenomenal because it does create all these wonderful story elements.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: You know, it makes me feel sorry for her because
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: she's just being able to take her helmet off and
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: now she won't be able to do that as long
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: as she you know, wants to play as you know,
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: an Mandalorian and this covert. So I I think it
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: really is excellent and so I no, it's it is
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: one of those things where it's like, okay, now we're
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: back to where you have this gear shift. You're like, oh, yeah,
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: this is where I wanted to be the whole time.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: And so I don't know, this is such a strange episode.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: So how would you rate this one?
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: Do you think?
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: I actually give it a two and a half because
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: great opening, great ending, interesting middle, but nothing's nothing's connected.
• 29:41
  Speaker 5: Like now, I want to be very clear that you know,
• 29:45
  Speaker 5: I always mentioned watching with my kid. She didn't mind
• 29:47
  Speaker 5: any of that. She didn't care and I respect and
• 29:51
  Speaker 5: I love that, but if I'm being honest, I gotta
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: you know, I gotta come out. I gotta ding it
• 29:57
  Speaker 5: for what I would ding anything else for. Even though
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: I might come back and rewatch it, I gotta admit
• 30:03
  Speaker 5: there there's just there's just that glaring structural flaw that
• 30:10
  Speaker 5: I just can't overlook.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, apparently they're fans of the song. You
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: got to keep them separated. And so yeah, I'm going
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: to give this a two because this episode still really
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: hits like this button with me. That just makes me
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: kind of angry because there are I feel like, easy
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: ways to eradicate most of the issues in the episode,
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: and it's like they take none of them. And that's
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: what makes me frustrated with the episode and and all honesty,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of it could just come down to like editing,
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: you know, the way that you edit the story together.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: So yeah, this is this is a you know, of
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: the Mandalorian episode so far one season one through now
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: you know, part of season three. This is the worst
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: episode of the Mandalorian that they've done so far, which
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: is saying a lot because the series has been ridiculously
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: strong up until this point and so for the most part,
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: even though we had some issues with episode one of
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: this season, it's like, well, in retrospect, that episode looks
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: so much better than this one, really, you know, So
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: it's just like.
• 31:31
  Speaker 5: Oh, let's keep in mind I was a little nicer
• 31:34
  Speaker 5: with the first episode. That is true, because I gave
• 31:37
  Speaker 5: the first one to three and a half. I gave
• 31:38
  Speaker 5: the second one of four. This one's a two and
• 31:40
  Speaker 5: a half. So it's not a bottom out. It's not
• 31:44
  Speaker 5: we haven't hit rock bottom, as it were. We've hit
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: something where I think like a two and a half,
• 31:51
  Speaker 5: even though we're three episodes in, which is a substantial
• 31:53
  Speaker 5: portion of the season since there are only gonna be
• 31:55
  Speaker 5: eight episodes. I don't come out of this episode like
• 32:00
  Speaker 5: we can't save the season. I look at it as okay,
• 32:03
  Speaker 5: didn't really work, but maybe I'm going to like it
• 32:05
  Speaker 5: more in retrospect as I go forward.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you with that. I mean, I again,
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: I think that there is some real strengths to the
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: part of this episode that I really like, and so
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: I don't end up thinking, all, well, this is just
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: like we're sunk. There's no hope. No, I don't think
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: that about the season because there's still some really really
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: interesting stuff going on that I'm excited to continue with
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: and so yeah, I guess next time we'll see what happens.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: But John, if people wanted to catch up with you,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: of course, see what else you've got going on these days,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: where would they do that?
• 32:44
  Speaker 5: Well, gosh, you can find me as cassel Junkie out
• 32:46
  Speaker 5: there or on your social network of choice. My social
• 32:49
  Speaker 5: networks of choice tend to be good Reads and Letterbox
• 32:53
  Speaker 5: because I can only talk about books and movies and
• 32:57
  Speaker 5: I love both of those things, and people get less
• 33:00
  Speaker 5: angry about those things than they do on other social
• 33:03
  Speaker 5: media networks.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: So go figure.
• 33:05
  Speaker 5: And you're also never going to encounter an AI post
• 33:09
  Speaker 5: on either one of those, because if you do, then
• 33:11
  Speaker 5: truly we have crossed the rubicon and there's no coming back.
• 33:15
  Speaker 5: You can also find me here on the network co
• 33:17
  Speaker 5: hosting a show called house Lights with Darren Moser and
• 33:20
  Speaker 5: Tristan Riddell. We have a lot of fun talk about
• 33:23
  Speaker 5: different works of directors and so on, And of course
• 33:26
  Speaker 5: I love being a guest over on the TFM network
• 33:30
  Speaker 5: on the godfather of this show, which is The six
• 33:32
  Speaker 5: Ozer two Club, which is one of the places where
• 33:33
  Speaker 5: people can find you, Matt, So why don't you go ahead?
• 33:36
  Speaker 5: And I gave him a little teas right there, why
• 33:39
  Speaker 5: don't you tell them everywhere else they can find y'all?
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, I love hanging out in the six oh two
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: club talk about all of those franchisees we love. Outside
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: of Star Trek, of course, on the TFM network, you
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: can also find me a lot of great Star Trek
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: talk with my good friend Chris Jones. On the social medias,
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: you'll find me all over the place under the name
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Matt Rushing zero two. So if I'm on that network,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: that's my name. You also find me here on this
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: network with a completed show called Owl post about every
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: single chapter of the Harry Potter series, one chapter at
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: the time. But John, they are serving medium rare nerve
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: steak over at the Jedi Temple tonight for dinner, so
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: I think it's time to close these negotiations.
• 34:22
  Speaker 5: I agree because I spend a lot of time HEARDing
• 34:24
  Speaker 5: those things, and I want to enjoy the fruits of
• 34:27
  Speaker 5: my labor. So Master Rushing, negotiations are closed.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Join the Revolution, Join the Nerd Party.