Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Robert Stone on Expanding Cancer Care Access, Philanthropy and the Future of Innovation

Transcript

Robert Stone on Expanding Cancer Care Access, Philanthropy and the Future of Innovation · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

0:02
- There's a small circle of people who truly
0:04
- understand what it takes to lead a health
0:05
- system right now. The decisions are enormous.
0:08
- The variables are constantly shifting, and the stakes
0:11
- of getting a call wrong don't stay contained.
0:14
- That's not a complaint. It's a structural reality.
0:17
- And it's why the most effective c suite
0:19
- leaders are deliberate about where they go to
0:21
- pressure test their thinking.
0:22
- Becker's fourteenth annual CEO and CFO roundtable
0:26
- brings together more than 1,500
0:28
- executive level attendees
0:30
- and nearly 400 speakers for four days built
0:32
- around growth, financial sustainability,
0:35
- workforce strategy, and the leadership questions that don't
0:38
- have easy answers.
0:39
- Join us November second through the fifth in
0:41
- Chicago.
0:42
- For the agenda and event details,
0:45
- visit beckershospitalreview.com
0:47
- and click on the events tab in the
0:49
- upper right.
0:51
- Hello, and thank you so much for tuning
0:53
- in to the Becker's Oncology Leadership podcast.
0:56
- I'm Elizabeth Gregersen, a reporter here at Becker's.
0:59
- And today, I'm talking to Robert Stone from
1:01
- City of Hope. Robert is the CEO at
1:04
- City of Hope, and I'm so glad and
1:06
- grateful that he took the time to speak
1:08
- with me today. Thanks for coming, Robert.
1:11
- Oh, thank you for having me on your
1:12
- podcast, Elizabeth. I'm excited for the conversation.
1:16
- Yes. And before I dive into my questions
1:18
- for you, I'd love if you could share
1:19
- just a bit about City of Hope and
1:21
- your role for our listeners.
1:24
- Sure. For those who don't know about us,
1:27
- City of Hope was founded in Los Angeles
1:30
- in 1913,
1:32
- and we've grown over the intervening
1:35
- century plus into one of the largest and
1:37
- most advanced cancer research
1:39
- and treatment organizations in The United States. We
1:42
- now have
1:44
- five cancer specific hospitals across four states,
1:49
- California,
1:49
- Arizona, Illinois, and Georgia.
1:52
- And,
1:53
- we were anchored by our original campus in
1:57
- LA.
1:58
- We were the birthplace of biotech
2:00
- when,
2:01
- the biotech industry started
2:03
- with our
2:04
- discovery of synthetic insulin,
2:07
- and we have grown into a center that
2:11
- combines translational research,
2:13
- on-site manufacturing
2:15
- facilities,
2:17
- national network of cancer centers, and unified clinical
2:20
- trials, all of which is supported by philanthropy.
2:23
- I've had the pleasure
2:24
- of being there for thirty years now, and
2:27
- I've been CEO for the past thirteen years.
2:31
- Perfect. Well, thanks for setting the stage as
2:33
- we kick off this conversation to kind of
2:36
- clue in listeners to, your perspective and experience.
2:40
- One of the big buzzwords
2:42
- when it comes to cancer,
2:44
- as someone who covers it every day, is
2:46
- access.
2:47
- And that can mean lots of things in
2:50
- different formats,
2:52
- different, you know, pathways,
2:54
- whether it's care or clinical trials.
2:57
- Just getting right to a facility is access.
3:01
- And whenever I cover City of Hope, I
3:03
- know that you all pursue access through a
3:05
- lot of different levers, and that can look
3:07
- like building new sites,
3:09
- bringing expertise to community oncologists
3:12
- with access hope and pushing policies forward like
3:15
- the Cancer Care Equity Act.
3:18
- So when you're looking at strategy
3:21
- and
3:22
- thinking about access, I'd love to hear from
3:25
- you how you define access
3:28
- and how you kind of balance all those
3:31
- different levers when they're competing for resources
3:35
- depending on, you know, what's needed when and
3:38
- also where?
3:40
- So
3:41
- let's take those in order, the definition of
3:43
- access, and then how do we prioritize
3:46
- the the different levers.
3:49
- Remember
3:50
- that in cancer care,
3:52
- patients aren't just stakeholders of the system.
3:55
- They are the purpose, and I have the
3:57
- pleasure of talking to patients across this country.
4:01
- And
4:02
- what I hear over and over again is
4:04
- that they want three things.
4:06
- They want access to an expert
4:10
- in their specific type of cancer.
4:13
- They want access to
4:16
- cutting edge treatments and clinical trials because often
4:20
- the best air for them and the best
4:22
- hope is a clinical trial.
4:25
- And third, they wanna be treated with dignity.
4:29
- And so while that sounds
4:31
- obvious, you'd be surprised
4:34
- how many patients
4:35
- feel the need to sacrifice
4:38
- one or more of those three goals in
4:41
- order to achieve
4:42
- the other. And so for me, access is
4:46
- all three of those things, and it's recognizing
4:50
- that access to
4:52
- the right expert,
4:54
- the right clinical trial, the cutting edge treatment,
4:58
- and doing so, having that access in a,
5:02
- dignified way,
5:04
- access equals survival.
5:06
- That's what patients are looking for, and it's
5:08
- getting the right diagnosis
5:10
- and treatment
5:12
- the first time.
5:13
- And so for us,
5:16
- as you mentioned, we've expanded with multiple strategies,
5:19
- everything from
5:20
- expanding our own facilities as we've moved across
5:23
- the country
5:25
- to creating
5:26
- vehicles
5:28
- that support
5:30
- community based oncology and support the oncologist, which
5:33
- is you referenced Access Hope, and Access Hope
5:35
- fits in that category, to
5:38
- advocating
5:39
- for patients. And the the
5:42
- theme
5:43
- behind
5:44
- all of those different strategies
5:47
- is putting the patient first
5:49
- and
5:50
- looking
5:51
- having what I like to call
5:53
- patient inspired,
5:56
- outcomes
5:57
- and and approaches.
5:59
- So
6:00
- we started this model
6:02
- of building for the last ten years, Elizabeth.
6:06
- When I talk to
6:08
- peers and you mentioned the the buzzword of
6:11
- the day is access.
6:14
- When I talk to peers, inevitably,
6:17
- access means
6:19
- access to their center.
6:21
- Mhmm. Our approach is different. It's access
6:26
- to cutting edge treatments. And whether it's
6:30
- we've expanded
6:31
- or,
6:32
- we partner on Access Hope
6:35
- with large employers and other cancer centers so
6:38
- that patients get the right diagnosis
6:41
- and care plan even though it's designed not
6:44
- to have them come to us.
6:46
- Or we're working with policymakers,
6:50
- so that you have things in California and
6:52
- Illinois. We've helped, lead a coalition that had
6:55
- a cancer patient bill of rights
6:58
- passed in those states. And in California,
7:01
- something called the Cancer Care Equity Act, which
7:05
- says the patients on
7:07
- Medi Cal, California's Medicaid program,
7:10
- if you have a complex cancer, you have
7:12
- a right to a second opinion.
7:14
- That all of those together is what creates
7:17
- access, and you shouldn't have to choose the
7:21
- in terms of which course, it's
7:24
- all of them that you can pursue.
7:27
- Absolutely.
7:28
- I just love hearing you talk about
7:32
- access and
7:34
- and the way that it the patient is
7:36
- always fueling those decisions,
7:38
- that City of Hope is making.
7:40
- Something else that, you know, fuels City of
7:43
- Hope is the philanthropic
7:45
- model that's, you know, helped fund research
7:50
- and expansion. It's led to some of the
7:51
- most widely used cancer drugs on the market.
7:56
- With that philanthropic
7:57
- model, if other health system leaders are listening
8:01
- and they don't have that same kind of
8:03
- donor infrastructure yet.
8:05
- You know, they're in a different position. They
8:09
- are thinking about
8:10
- making that first move
8:14
- to try out and,
8:16
- you know, harness that philanthropic model like City
8:18
- of Hope.
8:19
- What would you recommend they do first? What
8:22
- mistakes have you seen other systems make when
8:25
- trying to build out those types of partnerships?
8:27
- I'd love to get your, you know, experience
8:30
- and insight with that.
8:32
- So
8:33
- philanthropy
8:34
- and the,
8:37
- role philanthropy plays in accelerating
8:41
- innovation and breakthroughs is something that's near and
8:44
- dear to me. I've City of Hope's been
8:47
- blessed. I when I when I came here,
8:50
- to this organization in the mid nineteen nineties
8:53
- and then throughout my tenure,
8:56
- we inherited
8:58
- a an organization
8:59
- that
9:01
- started as a philanthropy back in 1913.
9:05
- So a hundred plus years ago,
9:07
- we were a charity. Not everyone
9:09
- has that benefit.
9:11
- And when I was asked
9:13
- when I was asked to become
9:16
- CEO, it was a great honor, and I
9:18
- I couldn't say yes fast enough.
9:22
- But the one thing I'll share with you
9:24
- that I had some
9:25
- trepidation
9:27
- about
9:28
- was philanthropy. I I had not been involved,
9:32
- much in philanthropy
9:34
- before that,
9:35
- and
9:36
- I
9:37
- didn't know that I would be comfortable
9:39
- asking people
9:41
- for money.
9:42
- And if you fast forward
9:45
- thirteen years,
9:47
- it's my in many ways, the favorite part
9:50
- of my job is to work with donors,
9:53
- and I've realized with the benefit of time
9:58
- that my outlook on philanthropy was just wrong.
10:01
- It's not about asking people for money.
10:04
- It's about finding people who want to give
10:09
- and make a difference in other people's lives
10:12
- and
10:13
- and working with those people to
10:15
- create an avenue
10:17
- for them to make an impact. It's really
10:20
- rewarding. And I think,
10:24
- I would say there are at least
10:26
- three
10:27
- lessons that I've learned that I'd I'd pass
10:30
- on.
10:31
- One,
10:32
- I've talked to many people who don't many
10:35
- many health,
10:36
- system leaders who don't have
10:39
- the history of philanthropy, and they look at
10:42
- philanthropy as a means
10:45
- to fill budget gaps.
10:47
- Mhmm. And I think that's the wrong way
10:50
- to look at it.
10:52
- Donors wanna make a difference. Large donors, small
10:55
- donors,
10:56
- they they wanna
10:58
- take up something that they're passionate about,
11:01
- and they wanna accelerate
11:03
- progress. And so the goal is not
11:06
- meeting a budget
11:08
- gap.
11:09
- The goal is helping donors find a way
11:12
- that they can make a difference, which leads
11:14
- to the the second lesson.
11:17
- Often,
11:19
- donors have a passion and wanna make a
11:21
- donation about something that isn't core to your
11:24
- mission or your strategy.
11:27
- You'll know you have a
11:30
- true philanthropic
11:32
- engine
11:33
- When you say no to donations because you're
11:37
- not the right organization
11:39
- to Right. To take that donation and make
11:41
- it forward
11:42
- and take it forward,
11:43
- make sure that the donations
11:46
- you receive
11:47
- further
11:48
- your goals and vision.
11:51
- So that would be the second mission or
11:53
- the second lesson. The third that's tied to
11:56
- that is
11:58
- I see too often
12:01
- people
12:01
- viewing
12:03
- philanthropy
12:04
- as a transaction.
12:06
- Mhmm. Philanthropy is about building
12:10
- relationships.
12:11
- And if you really work with donors
12:14
- to find a passion, whether that passion is
12:16
- research, whether it's access for underserved
12:20
- communities, whether it's improving nutrition or education.
12:25
- If you
12:26
- find their passion
12:29
- and then you take their their
12:31
- donations and you put it to good use
12:34
- and to fulfill their wishes,
12:37
- those donations will lead to other donations. And
12:39
- some of our best donors
12:42
- are people we've had decades long relationships
12:46
- with.
12:47
- Yeah. I'm so glad
12:49
- that I was able to ask you this
12:51
- question because I think just those three lessons
12:54
- you shared are are so valuable
12:56
- and and kind of
12:59
- show how the part philanthropic partnership model isn't
13:02
- a reactive
13:04
- one. It's kind of a proactive,
13:06
- as you mentioned, engaging relationships,
13:10
- to fuel, you know, patient care.
13:13
- As you transition it, let me add one
13:15
- thing that Yeah. That fits and ties all
13:18
- three of those
13:20
- lessons I've learned
13:21
- together.
13:23
- Really take
13:25
- if you wanna grow philanthropy
13:26
- for for those listeners who
13:29
- perhaps lead a health system that's trying to
13:31
- grow philanthropy
13:32
- Yeah. Focus
13:34
- as much
13:37
- on how you use the donation. So post
13:42
- gift
13:43
- as you do on getting the gift
13:46
- because I I I have seen the mistake
13:49
- that people make that they
13:52
- put all their time and energy into
13:55
- into getting the gift, finding the right match,
13:59
- and then the gift languishes.
14:02
- Donors wanna see their gift accelerate progress, so
14:05
- focus as much post gift as pre gift.
14:09
- Perfect. Thank you. I feel like we could
14:10
- do a whole podcast, or I could write
14:12
- a whole article of just,
14:15
- your lessons when it comes to that philanthropic
14:18
- partnerships.
14:19
- I do wanna pivot
14:22
- to patient experience,
14:24
- particularly
14:25
- when a system like
14:27
- City of Hope
14:28
- grows
14:29
- so fast with new hospitals,
14:32
- you know,
14:32
- expanding into five metro regions across the country.
14:38
- It can be said that sometimes growth is
14:40
- where the patient experience starts to slip.
14:43
- What's a decision
14:44
- where,
14:45
- you know, protecting patient experience meant either slowing
14:49
- down or spending more or, or like you
14:51
- mentioned, saying some saying no to something,
14:55
- to make sure that patient experience stayed at
14:57
- the center while this massive expansion was happening?
15:02
- Well, as we've grown,
15:05
- we've
15:07
- kept the patient view
15:09
- front and center. So what do patients need?
15:13
- Well, there's a there are advantages
15:16
- and challenges that come with scale.
15:19
- Growth for the sake of growth was never
15:22
- our intention. It really was
15:25
- how can we best
15:28
- impact
15:29
- lives of cancer patients, and
15:32
- that has led us to do things like,
15:35
- expand across the country. And as you know,
15:36
- because we've talked about it,
15:39
- that expansion out of California
15:42
- started with the acquisition of Cancer Treatment Centers
15:45
- of America,
15:47
- and that's an illustrative
15:50
- example
15:51
- of how you ultimately protect
15:54
- ex patient experience and and
15:57
- even more broadly, how you protect your culture.
16:00
- Because culture is what
16:03
- if if your culture is right
16:06
- and you,
16:08
- take care of that culture, the patient experience
16:11
- will will flow from it. And when we
16:14
- were looking at CTCA and we've looked at
16:18
- and passed on other
16:20
- potential
16:22
- partnerships and acquisitions,
16:25
- we look first and foremost
16:27
- into culture. So CTCA
16:30
- was not an academic center.
16:33
- City of Hope is.
16:35
- CTCA,
16:37
- while they did clinical
16:39
- research, they they weren't as heavily into
16:43
- discovery and clinical trials like City of Hope.
16:46
- The City of Hope's in,
16:48
- National Cancer Institute
16:50
- designated comprehensive cancer center, CTCA wasn't.
16:54
- But when we really looked and were making
16:56
- the decision, do we acquire
16:58
- CTCA or not,
17:00
- we looked first and foremost to the culture.
17:03
- They were,
17:06
- incredibly
17:08
- patient focused.
17:10
- They put the patient at the center and
17:13
- built their care model around the patient. Now
17:16
- four years later, that care model has evolved.
17:19
- It looks like
17:20
- City of Hope,
17:22
- City of Hope has grown into those markets.
17:25
- We've spent a lot of time and energy
17:30
- tying the system together. So if you're in
17:33
- Atlanta and you are a patient there, you
17:36
- have
17:37
- the same feel, the same experience, the same
17:39
- access to expertise that you would have if
17:42
- you were in,
17:44
- Los Angeles or Chicago or Arizona or Irvine.
17:49
- But the way we did it was, first
17:52
- and foremost, we nurtured
17:53
- the culture of care.
17:56
- Absolutely.
17:57
- I love tying that patient experience with the
18:00
- organizational
18:01
- culture.
18:02
- Right? Because those two things definitely aren't exclusive
18:06
- when it comes to health care.
18:08
- It's gonna become even more important in the
18:11
- future,
18:13
- Elizabeth, and we can talk about this. I'm
18:14
- sure we could do a whole Yeah. Podcast
18:17
- on this. But think about all of the
18:21
- technology
18:22
- advances
18:23
- that are coming,
18:25
- that have come. And that's in the form
18:27
- of new therapies and new treatments, whether it's
18:30
- CAR T therapy, precision medicine, the use of
18:33
- genomics
18:34
- in
18:35
- in cancer treatment.
18:37
- We can, as a society,
18:39
- get so wrapped up
18:42
- in the technological
18:44
- advances
18:46
- that we can forget
18:47
- cancer
18:48
- is a personal
18:50
- journey.
18:51
- It's universal and that it impacts everyone, but
18:54
- it's a personal journey and that experience
18:56
- has to stay
18:58
- in the forefront, and it's gonna only get
19:00
- more of a challenge as AI becomes and
19:03
- technology
19:04
- becomes more,
19:06
- prevalent.
19:08
- Absolutely. And if anyone's listened to the podcast,
19:11
- you know, I always like to ask cancer
19:13
- leaders what
19:15
- is giving them hope for the future and
19:17
- optimism for the future of cancer care right
19:20
- now. And often that, you know, answer is
19:22
- tied to technology
19:23
- or innovation or discovery, but,
19:26
- you know, obviously, feel free to take it
19:28
- in any direction, but I'd love to hear
19:30
- from you kind of what development
19:32
- or what do you see on the horizon
19:35
- that's standing out to you the most when
19:37
- you look at the future of cancer care?
19:40
- I love the way you asked and framed
19:43
- that question. So I'm gonna disappoint you because
19:46
- I'm gonna be like so many of
19:49
- the other people you've interviewed and talk about
19:51
- technology,
19:52
- which gives me a lot of hope. We're
19:55
- we're
19:56
- living in a moment
19:58
- where the intersection
20:00
- of technology,
20:02
- science, and humanity
20:05
- means anything's possible when it comes to
20:08
- ending cancer. That's why
20:11
- we should have
20:12
- such optimism.
20:14
- Today,
20:15
- for the first time,
20:17
- more than seventy percent of cancer patients live
20:21
- at least five years. It's a remarkable
20:24
- accomplishment,
20:25
- and I believe AI
20:28
- is going to expand
20:30
- that horizon
20:31
- and those
20:33
- possibilities.
20:34
- Now I I will say
20:36
- there's a
20:38
- a caution
20:39
- here I would I would give your listeners.
20:41
- When I talk to people about AI at
20:44
- health systems right now,
20:46
- we as an industry
20:48
- have not
20:50
- utilized
20:51
- technology
20:53
- to,
20:55
- increase productivity
20:56
- in a way many other industries already
20:59
- have, and there are a lot of reasons
21:01
- for that. But when I talk to people,
21:04
- you know, and you say, what are you
21:05
- doing in AI?
21:07
- More often than not, I get, well, there's
21:09
- ambient listening,
21:11
- which is really important. There's there some people
21:14
- are doing things around web cycle, and you'll
21:16
- hear a lot about supply chain.
21:19
- All of that's important,
21:21
- but we're not going to
21:24
- unlock the value
21:26
- in AI
21:28
- until we use it to
21:30
- redefine as the basis for redefining
21:34
- our operating models, our care models, and our
21:37
- workflows.
21:39
- And
21:40
- that is,
21:42
- something that organizations,
21:44
- in the midst of providing great care, will
21:47
- struggle to do. It's what I like to
21:49
- call the tyranny of the known.
21:52
- The the current
21:54
- world right now, the current problems
21:57
- will
21:58
- take precedence
22:00
- over
22:01
- setting yourself up for the future, and we've
22:04
- gotta break that cycle. We've got to be
22:07
- in the present.
22:08
- Today's patients deserve
22:10
- our 100% of our focus,
22:13
- But we also have to create the space
22:15
- organizationally
22:17
- to not just
22:19
- digitize,
22:22
- dated processes, but to really reinvent how we
22:25
- can meet patient needs in a better,
22:28
- more efficient
22:29
- way
22:30
- that that ultimately leads to better outcomes.
22:34
- Absolutely. And, you know, that mindset of
22:37
- the technology is amazing, but it's how, you
22:40
- know, leaders are using it that's gonna fuel
22:43
- the change and and the growth and the
22:45
- expansion and the industry and discovery and everything.
22:49
- I can't thank you enough for taking the
22:51
- time out of your day to speak with
22:53
- me. That is all we have time for
22:55
- now. I know that you and I could
22:56
- talk for another thirty minutes, but I just
22:58
- wanna thank you again for joining me on
23:00
- the podcast.
23:02
- Oh, thank you, Elizabeth, and thank you for
23:04
- all that you're doing.
23:06
- Keeping the focus on
23:08
- cancer and the cancer patient is crucially important,
23:10
- and I appreciate you're in the fight with
23:13
- us.
23:14
- Absolutely.
23:15
- And thank you to our listeners for tuning
23:17
- in to Becker's Oncology Leadership Podcast.
23:20
- I invite you all to check out even
23:22
- more Becker's Healthcare podcasts
23:24
- at beckerspodcast.com.
23:26
- Thank you again, Robert, for joining me and
23:28
- to our listeners for tuning in. Have a
23:30
- great day.