Latest / Chuck Douglas / PH Hilliard BMW Rezoning

Transcript

PH Hilliard BMW Rezoning · Chuck Douglas

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Greeting salitations. Welcome my friends to another edition of the
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Power Hour.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: I'm Chuck.
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  Speaker 3: Unless you allegedly know who you are. We take it
• 0:10
  Speaker 3: from there. We get one hour together, which means I
• 0:12
  Speaker 3: talk really, really fast, and you must listen even faster.
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: The number eight two one nine eight eighty six eight
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  Speaker 3: two one WTVN or eight hundred six ' ten wtv IN.
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: If you've listened to any period of time you've been
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: around with me anytime, you know I'm a Central Ohio guy,
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: born and raised Columbus, Ohio, Westside West High Cowboy for.
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  Speaker 1: The rest of my life. Love of many of our suburbs,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: dislike a couple of them, but Hilliard is right up
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: there at the top for me. I love Hilliard. I
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: love old downtown Hilliard. I love those summertime Thursday afternoons
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: when all those people gather in a peaceful way and
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: they enjoy the band and the food and the just
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: the camaraderie of living there and being a part of
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: this big, you know, city wide family in Hilliard. That's
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: what it feels like up there. And I've seen so
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: many things develop, so many positive things, so much momentum commercially, residentially,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: it's it. It's inspiring, especially, you know, as we clawed
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: our way through COVID and all the ridiculousness is the
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: past decade or so. It's been an uphill battle. But
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Hilliard has done very, very well, which is why when
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: I saw this story about a week and a half ago,
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: I I was distressed because I didn't understand. There is
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: a large commercial parcel up there, and one of the
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: voices you'll hear in the studio tonight is a commercial realtor,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: so he'll be able to tell us all about that
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: BMW credit was there. Okay, big office building and it
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: sits empty, doing nothing. So this group comes to Hilliard
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: and says, hey, we like to do something involving a
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: community center, an education center, cultural center, and it is Yes,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: there are religious implications to it, but my god, this
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: is America. What's the problem there except the fact that
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: maybe this building wouldn't generate as much tax money used
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: that way as it would if it was used for
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: another financial services industry or something like that. But it
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: seemed to me when I heard this story, this will
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: be a very positive and productive use for this growing,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: vibrant community. So I thought, yay, they acquired it back,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: and I believe it was March and brought the plan
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: to develop it and change it and turn it into
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: something instead of an empty hulk, and then it got
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: stolled in front of the city council and I could
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: not figure that out to save myself. Well, I'm kind
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: of starting to figure things out now as I've paid
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: a little bit more attention. I've got two ourpresentatives from
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: newer Islamic Cultural Center. Is that the official title, as
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: well as a member of the Hilliard City Council in
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: studio tonight, let's get to the bottom thing, gentlemen, would
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: you let's go left to right here if you'd introduce
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: yourself like they can see what direction you're sitting, but
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: introduce yourself to everybody who you are.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: So my name is doctor Ronnie of Baza and Chuck.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: As we were talking earlier, I'm a urologist, but I
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: also happened to be the chairman of the board of
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: nor Islamic Cultural Center, and so this issue is very
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: near and dear to my heart, obviously, and thank you
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: so much for bringing this to your audience.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: Thank you. And in the middle of the room that
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: would be you looking at me.
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: Yes, good evening. My name's Least Carrier. I've a longer
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: serving member on Hillard City Council and I'm here tonight
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: to talk about, you know, my concerns and some of
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: what I saw in the last couple of days and
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: as I reflect upon it so and also to answer
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: to your questions that I can. You know, I'm one
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: of seven and it was a very tough night last Monday,
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: and I think a lot of folks were surprised.
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  Speaker 5: Okay, my name is Faddi Suliman. I'm a member of
• 3:56
  Speaker 5: the nor Islamic Cultural Center, and also I has been
• 4:00
  Speaker 5: in practicing real estate at Columbus for the last twenty years.
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  Speaker 1: You guys all, First of all, I want to commend
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  Speaker 1: you and tell you how much I appreciate you for
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  Speaker 1: even coming here tonight, because I know this has been
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: a rough situation. But there was a scheduling issue where
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: I thought the hill your Counsel was meeting tomorrow night,
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: which they are not. It won't be until next week.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: But Less was not going to be here until Wednesday
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: according to my calendar. However, he thought it was tonight,
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: so he came and I thought, oh my gosh, they're
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: not going to want to do this together. I commend
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: all three of you for saying, yeah, let's let's go
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: in and talk about this. Was great and I appreciate
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: you being that, you know, that kind of person, all
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  Speaker 1: three of you for saying, yeah, let's come in and
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  Speaker 1: talk about this, which the world could use more of
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  Speaker 1: in every aspect, So thank you for that. Gentlemen. Let's
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  Speaker 1: let's start from the real estate perspective. I'm assuming you
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: helped in the acquisition here of the building, and was
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: there any indication upfront that there was going to be
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: any kind of difficulty, any any major hurdles in redeveloping
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: and following through with this plan once the building was purchased.
• 5:04
  Speaker 5: No. Keep in mind, this building was the headquarters for
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  Speaker 5: BMW Financials for quite some time, almost eighteen years, and
• 5:13
  Speaker 5: the city of Hilliard knew that this building is going
• 5:15
  Speaker 5: to go vacant back in March twenty twenty one, so
• 5:19
  Speaker 5: they had heads up. They knew it was going to
• 5:21
  Speaker 5: go vacant, but the actual loan default took place in
• 5:25
  Speaker 5: about the end of last year twenty twenty three, and
• 5:29
  Speaker 5: the owners tried to lease the building, which is about
• 5:31
  Speaker 5: two hundred and twenty five thousand square feet, four stories tall,
• 5:35
  Speaker 5: and it's essentially one hundred percent vacant. They tried to
• 5:39
  Speaker 5: lease it for about a year and they couldn't get
• 5:42
  Speaker 5: any traction. Not one inch of space was leased, so
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  Speaker 5: it was defaulted. We was on the auction. The auction
• 5:52
  Speaker 5: was for the note, and several bidders were on the auction,
• 5:55
  Speaker 5: and we, the nor Islamic Cultural Center, won the bid
• 5:59
  Speaker 5: for the or the note, and we went through the
• 6:01
  Speaker 5: process to actually take the deed from the prior owner.
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: So that process took us about four months and we
• 6:08
  Speaker 5: officially had the deed in hand in March of twenty
• 6:11
  Speaker 5: twenty Ford this year, and since then we've been working
• 6:14
  Speaker 5: with the city try to do the things that we
• 6:17
  Speaker 5: proposed to do, and it wasn't a very welcoming environment,
• 6:21
  Speaker 5: to be honest. From day one, we felt the resistance
• 6:25
  Speaker 5: and that the city was not really necessarily liking the
• 6:28
  Speaker 5: proposals that we put on the table. They had some
• 6:30
  Speaker 5: other things in mind that they were not necessarily transparent about.
• 6:34
  Speaker 5: But we start to realize what those things are along
• 6:36
  Speaker 5: the process and we can dig into that details. But
• 6:39
  Speaker 5: keep in mind the thing from a business side, as
• 6:42
  Speaker 5: we talk about the process and on the business side,
• 6:45
  Speaker 5: the real estate market when it comes to office space
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  Speaker 5: has been just essentially destroyed. We all know how bad
• 6:51
  Speaker 5: the office market is. We all know there's about millions
• 6:54
  Speaker 5: of square feet of space setting empty, not just in
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  Speaker 5: Hilliard in Dublin, but throughout central Ohio and within fifteen
• 7:02
  Speaker 5: mile radius from that building alone, there's about six million
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  Speaker 5: square feet of space that's sitting empty. So to sit
• 7:07
  Speaker 5: there and I guess hope that this building will get
• 7:11
  Speaker 5: occupied by an office user, that's just wishful thinking. And
• 7:15
  Speaker 5: we want to be more proactive to actually do something
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  Speaker 5: intentional and that will bring something different to the environment,
• 7:23
  Speaker 5: especially to that corridor that's been sitting. Truthfully, there's not
• 7:27
  Speaker 5: a whole lot of activity in that corridor. If you
• 7:28
  Speaker 5: drive by, that corridor is fairly quiet. So we wanted
• 7:32
  Speaker 5: to do something different that will bring in some vibrancy
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  Speaker 5: to the market, bringing vibrancy to that corridor and through that.
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  Speaker 5: That's where our proposal came in, with the intention to
• 7:42
  Speaker 5: repurpose the whole building into various uses, including a daycare,
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  Speaker 5: a stem business incubator that will occupy about twenty thousand
• 7:51
  Speaker 5: square feet of office space. We have an event center
• 7:54
  Speaker 5: that will occupy about fifteen thousand square feet of space.
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  Speaker 5: We also have a co working space that will take
• 8:00
  Speaker 5: about ten thousand square feet at a minimum, a restaurant, use,
• 8:05
  Speaker 5: a coffee shop, use office space, medical office including different
• 8:10
  Speaker 5: specialty specialties, and also utilizing the existing restaurant commercial kitchen
• 8:16
  Speaker 5: in that building, which is a class A commercial kitchen
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  Speaker 5: that's been sitting empty also since last year. So we
• 8:22
  Speaker 5: proposed those things to City of Hilliard. Including those uses
• 8:27
  Speaker 5: was a small use for a not for profit purpose.
• 8:30
  Speaker 5: So the intention overall was to commercialize ninety percent of
• 8:33
  Speaker 5: the building into businesses and retain about ten percent for
• 8:38
  Speaker 5: not for profit purposes.
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  Speaker 1: And that was the stumbling block. The not for profit
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  Speaker 1: ten percent is that where they seem to put up
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: a wall.
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  Speaker 5: The stumbling blocks were many, if you ask me truthfully,
• 8:50
  Speaker 5: there was never really an honest, honest feedback from the
• 8:57
  Speaker 5: city on what is bothering them? What do you not
• 9:00
  Speaker 5: like to see? It's been almost one hundred percent. We
• 9:04
  Speaker 5: will let us hear what you got and we'll get
• 9:07
  Speaker 5: back with you. We proposed the proposals that we just
• 9:10
  Speaker 5: mentioned earlier, and the feedback has been well can you
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  Speaker 5: do this without having a school. We have a user
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  Speaker 5: who wants to do forty thousand square feet fifty thousand
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: square feet of school. Can you do it without the school?
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  Speaker 5: And we said no, we have to have a school.
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  Speaker 5: It's a private school and they're going to be leasing
• 9:25
  Speaker 5: space just like anybody else. So that didn't go very well.
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  Speaker 5: But you know, for me to be honest as an
• 9:33
  Speaker 5: outsider looking in, when you just unplug yourself and plug
• 9:36
  Speaker 5: yourself back in, you look back and say, was this
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: a hospitable environment from day one? And I can tell
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: you it wasn't.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: And wouldn't you say the city? I want to differentiate
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: here city staff that you deal with with the zoning
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: or how is there a difference in how you feel
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: like you're being treated when dealing with city council versus
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: the city staff.
• 9:55
  Speaker 5: Well as far as city staff, most of our dealing
• 9:57
  Speaker 5: have been with city staff, including the city manager and
• 10:01
  Speaker 5: Economic Development director and some other city staff members. But
• 10:06
  Speaker 5: from day one, if you're a developer walking into a
• 10:10
  Speaker 5: city looking to bring in jobs and bring in development
• 10:13
  Speaker 5: and repurpose something that's been sitting empty for a long time,
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  Speaker 5: I would think the message would be thank you for
• 10:19
  Speaker 5: coming to my city. We are happy to have you here.
• 10:22
  Speaker 5: How can we help you make this better? How can
• 10:25
  Speaker 5: we develop something together that will make the city more
• 10:28
  Speaker 5: welcoming and this project more profitable. To the contrary, the
• 10:32
  Speaker 5: feedback we got from first day was we are willing
• 10:36
  Speaker 5: to wait on another five years until the office market
• 10:39
  Speaker 5: comes back. That's not a statement you dish out because
• 10:43
  Speaker 5: you want to be cooperative. That's not a statement you
• 10:46
  Speaker 5: dish out to any developer who's coming to the city
• 10:49
  Speaker 5: to bring in jobs. You should be a de Chanella's statement,
• 10:52
  Speaker 5: Thank you, We're happy to have you. We know this
• 10:55
  Speaker 5: building has been sitting empty for a long time. Let's
• 10:57
  Speaker 5: do something with it together. When you throw out these
• 11:00
  Speaker 5: statements that really just kind of like block the conversation
• 11:04
  Speaker 5: from moving forward. That just gives you a tone of
• 11:07
  Speaker 5: how the next steps are going to go. And consequently
• 11:10
  Speaker 5: they did not go very well from that point.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, obviously there have been a couple of stumbling blocks,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: less carriers, he said. The longest serving member of Hilliard
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: City Council correct does does what you are hearing right there?
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: Does that sound like an accurate depiction of what you
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: have witnessed as you watch this thing developed.
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I think.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Jack said, can you hit the microphone a little bit
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: more directly here so.
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: We can hear it. That's okay, I'm a rookie at
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: this radio. Anyway, we have proses. I think that is
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: a very accurate understan my understanding of what's happened. And
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: I think that comes from a perspective of where as
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: soon as the Nore reached out to me, I was
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: open arms and saying, yeah, let's talk about it now.
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: I understand that's been on an overlay of a lot
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: of political issues that's happening internationally. We've got the Gaza situation,
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: which is horrible for everybody, right, and then you have
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: this group that comes forward, it's a large part of
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: our community, has been established in our community for a
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: long time and says, hey, we want to redevelop an
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: empty building and we want to commercialize it and bring
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: mixed uses to it in a way that you're probably
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: not used to staying in terms of mixed use. So
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: I sat down and I gotcha. It had to have
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: been I met you what in March March I have
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: It's been a long time, and it just to understand
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: what their vision was now, I also, as a council member,
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: have prior knowledge of others that have been interested in
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: that building or that the city has tried to move
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: into that building. And that's where I started to get
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: really concerned about what was going on here, because in
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: between the emptying of the BMW folks out of that
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: building and meeting with the NORE, I knew that we
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: were trying to get the schools, the publics schools, to
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: move their operations center out of Columbus back into Hilliard,
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: into Hillard city limits, and they have a pretty big
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: operation down.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: On Atlas Drive.
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: I also had some understanding that they were trying to
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: bring in an educational space within that move. So I'm
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: sitting here looking at it, going wait a minute now.
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: The city manager denied that on the record at the
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: last council meeting that there was any educational space being
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: considered with the move for the operational jobs with Atlas Drive,
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: and that doctor Marshause when she talked to doctor doctor Marshause,
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: she also, I had to I had to check the record,
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: but if I remember served me right. She also indicated
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: she did not talk to doctor Dave Stewart about who's
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: the current superintendent of your schools. I'm not sure that's correct,
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: and I'll find we'll find that out as we go
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: through this process. But in any event, I get this
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: picture of, Hey, we were going to have a school
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: or school operations come in to the building two years
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: ago as it was vacating, and now these folks want
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: to come and they want to bring enterprise and you know,
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: an education and experience to our community and bring quite frankly,
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: something a new model, right, it's a new model for
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: kids to learn. I took the time to learn a
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: little bit about those programs, and I thought, this is cool,
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: this is new, this is cutting edge stuff. They only
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: have this in Dallas. I think it's Dallas, right, yep.
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: And so I literally had to call other council members
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: who were told by the city manager not to meet
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: with the newer community, and say, hey, come listen to
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: these guys. This is pretty cool stuff. So I became
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: pretty disenheartened about the process that was coming forward. My
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: guess is is the city My understanding is is the
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: city had different bidders that were lined up for the facility,
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: and the NORE won the bidding process, and that wasn't
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: their expectation, but I don't know if you'll ever you
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: know that that's going to come out sooner or later.
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: So you know, from my seat in the policy level
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: making seat as a council member, you want number one,
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: you want it to be a vibrant community. You want
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: it to be a vibrant piece of property. The question becomes,
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: and this is really what bothered me, is well, what's
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: the standard we're going to operate under? And I don't
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: think that's where it breaks down for me. And that
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: goes back to the Comprehensive Plan that the city passed
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: the last fall, and we had a pretty contentious debate
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: about that and what to certain areas of the city
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: going to look like. And you can see through the
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: comp plan there's a lot of urbanization. And what I
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: mean by that is we're going to go vertical with
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: residential and mixed use properties. So they want to go
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: vertical and mix up the uses with apartments and you
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: see all that stuff where you've got retail on the
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: bottom floor, apartments up top. There's a lot of I'm
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: going to tell you right now, there's going to be
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: another train wreck in Hillard when they do to do that.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: In Old Hilliard.
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: Old Hillard is a neat little area that, yes it is,
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: and so you're going to have these these discussions. And
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: that's what I see here. I see what the really
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: boils down to is what a difference in opinion as
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: to what true mixed use is really going to be.
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: And they're bringing a lot of different some nonprofit mixed uses,
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: some profitable mixed uses, some creativity, some innovation. You're bringing
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: all these things in this cauldron, and who knows what
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: spins out of that, but my guess it's going to
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: be pretty cool, right.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: You know, a couple of minutes on television does not
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: do the story justice. I am talking about the development,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: and I don't know what you call it a controversy,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: because it is kind of controversial. Out of the Hillyard area.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: The BMW Financial building sitting abandoned, doing nothing, just basically
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: being being a hulk, and somebody comes along buys it
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: back in March and says, we've got plans, we'd like
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: to do this. We have this idea and it sounds great,
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: but it's stalled out almost immediately, it seems, because they
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: just purchased the building back in March. And the reason
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: it's stalled. Is kind of be me. Now we've heard
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: from from Fatty, We've heard from our council member, from
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: from Hilliard. I've also got doctor of baza here in
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: the studio who is from the nor Islamic Community Center. I imagine,
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: as you know, kind of you're not in the business
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: end of this. This is more of the as a
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: concern part of this organization. You've got to be standing
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: off in the background, really suspicious of everything that's happened
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: at this point. I don't know how else I would
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: take it. I'm a reasonable person. I don't see I
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: don't see you know, racism or discrimination around every corner.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: But from your perspective on, you know, you've got to
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: be wondering what I have to assume. At least maybe
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: I'm wrong about that, but it seems like this would
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: be a very perplexing situation for you.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: Well, Chuck, let me tell you why your listener should
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: be concerned about this. There's really two different reasons, and
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: really particularly your listeners you know more than anyone else.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: There's the issue of property rights and government overreach, which
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: I know your listeners are not happy about. And there's
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: the issue of religious rights, something we have in this
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: country called the First Amendment. These two issues really are
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: at the crux of this situation, in this conflict, and
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you why. As Fadi said earlier, when we
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: first had our meeting, the very first meeting between us
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: and the city manager and her team, and we're hearing
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: we're willing to wait five years until the office market
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: comes back. Essentially, that's the Hilliard City government telling us
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: that you bought this building, you own this building outright,
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: but we wanted to sit there empty, and you're going
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: to have to keep paying the bills for five years
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: until somebody comes and rents it like BMW Financial. Does
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: that get under your skin?
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's yours. You should be able to use it
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: within the boundaries the law any way that you choose
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: to use it. And if the law is this restrictive,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: then perhaps.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: That needs to be looked at so exactly, and that's
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: what we've said from day one, is that, look, there
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: are zoning laws in the City of Hilliard. There's a
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: comprehensive plan, and we are making a proposal that fits
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: it completely. We're not asking for something outside of the law,
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: anything that is prohibited by the comprehensive plan prohibited by
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: the PUD. We're not asking for anything that is really
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: outside of the pill We're basically asking for the ability
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: to redevelop this empty building and commercialize ninety percent of it.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Bring in. Ninety percent is going to be businesses, businesses
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: that rent from us. The school is going to rent
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: space from us, the daycare is going to rent space
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: from us, the restaurant, the coffee shop, all the medical
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: offices and yes, the premium office, even the Discover stem
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: is going to rent space from us. We're going to
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: pay property tax on all of that space. And we
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: just asked for about ten percent of the space. It
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: was actually nine percent, nine percent of the building that
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: we could use for our nonprofit to be a community
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: center for us to gather for religious activities, prayer services,
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: interfaith activities, dinners, parties, whatever it may be. And that
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: ended up being, to our surprise, the biggest issue of
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: contention with the city manager her staff. They did not
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: want us to have this community center. And this is
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: the religious rights side of this issue and why your
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: listeners should be unhappy about this and how it played
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: out Chuck on the night of the city council meeting,
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: the city staff really pulled the wool over the eyes
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: of the city council. And I'll tell you how in
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: this building we asked for permission to have an event center,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: an event center, which we explained to the city manager
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: and her staff that this is like the McCoy Center. Basically,
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: we have an operator who wants to come and rent
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: fifteen thousand square feet of our building and then use
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: that space for graduation parties, bar mitzvah's weddings, et cetera,
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: et cetera, all the types of things that would happen
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: at McCoy Center any other event hall. So that event center,
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: again is going to be least to somebody who's going
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: to pay us rent and then have parties there that
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: they do, you know, that they know make money off of.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: So the city staff says at the city council meeting that, well,
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: they can pray in the event hall. Chuck, you have
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: no idea how you can pray in the event You
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: have no idea. How offensive that was? They might as
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: they do. They might as well have said to us,
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: well they can pray in the daycare. So we're asking
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: for nine percent of this building, twenty thousand square feet
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: that we can use for our community center. And it's
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: not just for prayers.
• 22:09
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: Obviously our main center, which is less than a mile
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: away on Wilcox, is being used all day, every day
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: for all sorts of activities. So this community center that
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: we ask for nine percent of the building, they're denying us, rejecting,
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: and they're telling us, well, you can always pray in
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: the event hall. So you know, again, there's two big
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: issues here that your listeners should be concerned about, property rights,
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: government overreach telling you how to use your building and
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: not applying the zoning code fairly to us like they
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: would to any other developer who came in. And then
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: the religious rights, our ability to have a portion of
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: our building for our religious services, for our community and
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: religious activities.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: That is that is uh yeah, you could I had
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: that whole idea of being told what part of your
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: building you could pray in. That just that's that's bugging me. Wow, yes,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: less please.
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: It gets worse.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. This is a familiar in city counts.
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: The doctors, the good doctors being nice. Oh my gosh,
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: it gets the city staff has gone to the point
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: of dictating what uses can be on what floors, although
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: when you go through the building the floors are all identical.
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: But they've limited most of the uses to the first floor,
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: so they've gone through the extra step as the applicant
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: the nore has said of zoning by floor, which, by
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: the way, our community's never done, and a lot of
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: folks in the region are going, excuse me, never heard
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: of it, what are you talking about? Well, all of
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: a sudden, we're doing it. So not only did we
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: tell the applicant what the good doctor just shared, but
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: we've also said and limited what can be done on
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: each floor by floor, although they're the same. My argument
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: at the council meeting was that by itself is improper
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: and in my humble opinions, that's what the definition of
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: spot zoning is is the classification of like situations differently
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: in an area, like just like that. I mean, you
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: look at that and it what are we doing? So
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: it became clear to me, and I think it became
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: clear to these guys. You know, the city just wasn't
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: interested in that use for that building. They had something
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: else in.
• 24:33
  Speaker 5: Mind, Chuck, let me build on that. Usually and a
• 24:37
  Speaker 5: developer comes in town wants to do something good. The
• 24:40
  Speaker 5: first question should be how many jobs will you bring
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: it in? You know, if you talk about pedrol taxes,
• 24:46
  Speaker 5: you would want to know how many jobs. There's so
• 24:49
  Speaker 5: many applicants that apply to developed Land and Hilliard and
• 24:53
  Speaker 5: you give them this application and say, if you want
• 24:55
  Speaker 5: tax abatement, here's the application, and one of the questions
• 24:58
  Speaker 5: is how many jobs will you do you think you
• 25:01
  Speaker 5: anticipate to create? And the applicant puts in a job
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: ten fifty. Magically, surprisingly, shockingly, we were never asked how
• 25:11
  Speaker 5: many jobs would you create? How many jobs would your
• 25:14
  Speaker 5: proposal bring?
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 25:17
  Speaker 5: Why would you not even inquire to know what would
• 25:21
  Speaker 5: my proposal bring to you? Would you just simply magically
• 25:25
  Speaker 5: make it up on your own? Would you just pretend
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: to know? Would you just you make your own financial
• 25:31
  Speaker 5: assessment that this you is going to bring ten, this
• 25:34
  Speaker 5: you is going to bring in fifty? Why would you
• 25:36
  Speaker 5: not ask me?
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: Well, from a strategy standpoint, if I was the one
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: who was responsible for asking you that question, and I
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: needed something to stole you with down the road, I
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: would make sure you didn't have a form filled out.
• 25:46
  Speaker 5: Absolutely, I wo're not even asking for tax abayment we're
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: not asking for any grants, we're not asking for any incentives.
• 25:51
  Speaker 5: We're just saying we want to do the following. If
• 25:56
  Speaker 5: you really care about perrol taxes, and the city manager
• 25:59
  Speaker 5: does care about the payroll tax, that's a source of revenue, understood, rightfully. So,
• 26:05
  Speaker 5: But if you care so much, which ask the applicant
• 26:07
  Speaker 5: how many jobs are you bringing? How many jobs do
• 26:10
  Speaker 5: you expect to have in there? If you don't ask me,
• 26:12
  Speaker 5: that means what you don't care to know, or you
• 26:16
  Speaker 5: don't want to know, or you want to use this
• 26:18
  Speaker 5: you know for some other reasons. So right there, just
• 26:22
  Speaker 5: that basic, basic functional question that should come in from
• 26:25
  Speaker 5: any city manager to any applicant, it doesn't matter how
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: big or small they are. Tells you that there was
• 26:31
  Speaker 5: not really a good intention. There is no good faith
• 26:34
  Speaker 5: in actually knowing, and if there's no good faith in knowing,
• 26:37
  Speaker 5: there's no good faith in cooperating throughout the whole process.
• 26:40
  Speaker 5: We felt one thing specific. We felt downsized. You come in,
• 26:45
  Speaker 5: you meet with someone city manager, they should treat you
• 26:49
  Speaker 5: as a restaurantier as well as equal to a corporate company.
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: To Google, doesn't matter, you should be the same size,
• 26:55
  Speaker 5: same process, same respect. In this case, we felt downside,
• 27:00
  Speaker 5: you're too small. Essentially, we don't really have to ask
• 27:04
  Speaker 5: you these questions, but don't We don't really care. But
• 27:07
  Speaker 5: would you have done the same thing for a developer
• 27:10
  Speaker 5: that you know, that you like, that you want them
• 27:14
  Speaker 5: to do this with, you would not have done it,
• 27:16
  Speaker 5: because if you do it with someone else, that means
• 27:19
  Speaker 5: you're a bad businessman, you're in the wrong place. This
• 27:23
  Speaker 5: is a great job, but it has to be for
• 27:24
  Speaker 5: the right person. So you cannot not ask these questions
• 27:27
  Speaker 5: to people who are coming in town trying to do
• 27:30
  Speaker 5: good things. So these are just examples of how Not
• 27:34
  Speaker 5: So Open was a city, and it's actually in its
• 27:38
  Speaker 5: sense of you know, it tried to give the illusion
• 27:41
  Speaker 5: of cooperation to city council members. We have been working
• 27:45
  Speaker 5: with the applicant. We are been trying to kind of
• 27:47
  Speaker 5: make something happen. But you're not working with me if
• 27:50
  Speaker 5: you're not asking me the right questions. And then you
• 27:53
  Speaker 5: bring in those questions you know mile mark or twenty.
• 27:57
  Speaker 5: That does not make sense. And the will was brought
• 27:59
  Speaker 5: before a counsel and council turned down turned out to
• 28:02
  Speaker 5: be not even your proposal, which which again that there's
• 28:07
  Speaker 5: some manipulation at some level here that I'm just, as
• 28:10
  Speaker 5: I said, as I'm completely uncomfortable with. I know, we're
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: almost out of time. When is the next meeting?
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: Less, we have another council meeting a week from today?
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, well wait a minute, better check that.
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: I don't know, I'm not quite sure.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Or is on Tuesday night?
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they're on Monday nights.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Are they on Mondays?
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: Normally they're on Mondays? Yeah, twenty fifth, we have another meeting.
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: But you know this, this matter has been voted down.
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: There's only a couple avenues of redress for the mosque
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: and the newer community. It's so sad.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Well, they can make some lawyers wealthy and take it
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: to court, but I don't think anybody benefits from that.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: It slows them down and ultimately it doesn't make kill
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: your look very good.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: And we said that from day one, you know, we
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: were saying that, you know, all the way through the process,
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: is that the last thing that we want to do
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: is to sue the city because we love the city,
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: we're part of the city, we love the city. We
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: don't want to sue the city. And the entire time
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: throughout the entire process. We felt like we were making
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: compromise after compromise after compromise, and you know, accepting more
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: and more cuts to what we originally wanted to try
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: to get to something that the city manager and her
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: staff were willing to actually put in front of the
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: P and Z and put in front of the city council.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: And we couldn't get there. We couldn't get there because again,
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: they didn't want this community center, and we felt from
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: the beginning that they were orchestrating the situation in a
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: way that would cause it to fail. That again give
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: the illusion that they were compromising and giving us some
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: of the things we were asking for, but then putting
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: so many limitations on it that there was no way
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: that we could actually make it successful. The best example is, Chuck,
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: you won't believe this one. They said, yeah, you can
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: have a restaurant in there, but you can't have any
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: delivery vehicles parked in the parking lot. You can't have
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: any fleet vehicles. So that means that we as the landowner,
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: as the landlord, now have to go and try to
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: find a restauranteur who's willing to rent that restaurant. But
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: you can't deliver food and you can't cater out of
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: that kitchen? How's that possible? And when we ask them, well,
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: why why don't you want us to have cars park there,
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: we're willing to even put a limit on the number
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: of cars. Keep in mind, when BMW Financial was there,
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: they had dozens and dozens of cars waiting BMW's waiting
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: to be leased that were parked there twenty four to
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: seven and the city never had a problem with that.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: But now, all of a sudden, have a few fleet
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: vehicles there to support the restaurant for delivery and catering
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: on a parking lot that holds more than one one
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: hundred cars. It's not like it's going to be an
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: eyesor it's a ginormous parking lot, and the city's putting
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: that limitation on us. So what else could we think, chuck,
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: but that they're purposely trying to set us up for failure.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: They're trying to look like they're compromising, but setting us
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: up for failure. That's how we felt throughout the entire process.
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: And to add on to that, chob think about it,
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: if you went to the Hilliard Schools and asked them
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: to move their operations center to that BMW building. All
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: those buses down at Atlas Drive would have been parked there.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. Is there's the music. I'm done strategically,
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: less are you the odd man out on this? Are
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: your fellow council members?
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: I tell you, strategically, what has to happen with our
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: leadership is we have to take out the arbitrary nature
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: of our comprehensive plan that was voted last fall. These
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: individuals come, they don't know what revenue has to be
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: brought for approval on a mixed use development. I don't know.
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: I have no idea. It's been the most in depth,
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: comprehensive argument that I've made that our comprehensive plan design
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: is flawed. It's flawed because decisions are made and the
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: staff hangs their hats on decisions about how much tax
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: revenue you're going to bring to the city. Shouldn't it
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: be made on what's right for the city. Guys.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna bring you back to the studio in the
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: very very near future because I don't want to let
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: this go. This is not right. The way it's developing
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: is not right. The way it's serving Hilliard is not right.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Gotta go time for me to fly. We'll do the
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: skin tomorrow at six on six ' ten douautvn