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The Secret to Successful Management in Financial Planning · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hello everyone, it's Elena here from Recruit UK.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: And this week I'm joined by Alice Lauding, partner and head of wealth operations at Salturst.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Within this week's episode, we discuss everything from a management hiring manager perspective, how you deal with mental health in the workplace, how you create a strong career progression framework that keeps your staff motivated and challenged.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: And we also touch on why inclusivity and diversity is really important within financial planning.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: In this episode, we talk all things communication, empathy, and how we at the end of the day just need to realise that we are all human.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much for taking the time um to speak with me today.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: How are you doing?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm good.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm good.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you as well for the offer.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: I really an absolute pleasure.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm sure you've got lots to share with our audience, and I'm really excited um to have you joining us today.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it's the question that I start with with everyone, but can you tell me a little bit about your career journey to date and how you've got to the point that you are now?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um a long time ago.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: So when I um was leaving college, so I was 18.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um I wasn't in a position to go to university.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I decided to uh go into an apprenticeship and I didn't know what I wanted to do.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'd done sciences at college, so I looked at all types of apprenticeship.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: I knew I just wanted to get on with my career and start working.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um I found one in financial services.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: I started doing the like V Tech and MVQ and Business Admin, level three.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: At the same time, I started doing my level three um like a qualification in the industry and really got a taste for it, to be honest with you.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, really was enjoying it.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: So then I uh moved on to the level four qualification with LIBF, um, and then moved around a couple of companies to find the right opportunity and the right fit for me.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, moved into power planning, head of power planning, and then uh with Soltice in September, I became head of wealth operations.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, congratulations! So you've had a very exciting career journey today.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: You've gone then through that process of like all the way from apprenticeships, and you're a partner at Saltus now as well.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you've gone through that whole journey.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned um then as well, and we spoke about this previously, that you were in a couple of firms where you spent like a gap of time and then eventually ended up at Sultur.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, why did you go through a couple of different positions?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: What sort of enticed you about Sultus, about wanting to stay there?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: So personally, I really like a challenge.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um that that's what sort of gets me fired up.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so when I get in a company and it's you know the first few months and you're running the ropes, it's really tricky, and you've got to get your head down and focus, you know, that kind of fires me up.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and are we get in, get it?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'd be like, cool, what's next?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, where do I go now?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: What's next qualification?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: What's the next step for me or role?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then it might be there were smaller firms sometimes, so might be there wasn't really something for me, or maybe, and sometimes they really tried to offer um positions and stuff, but maybe they wasn't the one for me or where I wanted to go.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd end up looking afield basically somewhere else.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'd end up looking at uh other roles that gave me that opportunity.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I looked at other size companies, I mean to big companies to get an opportunity.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I'd move along and then Saltus.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, um interestingly, when they when I first went to Saltus, it was daunting as a big company, you know.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: It was I went in as a paraplanner, so I actually took a slight back step in a way.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: I was technically head of paraplane, a small firm before, um, but it was head of paraplanning more like head of the function.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: There was no other paraplanners.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I kind of went back to paraplanning solely, having no responsibility for the function, which was handy, but then with the opportunity that it was a bigger firm and it was growing very rapidly.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I had the opportunity to move on that something would come up, and I've just been, you know, working really hard, obviously sold it at the right time, right place, um, because they've grown exponentially.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I was lucky enough to be interviewed and offered the head of power playing role after a year, after another year, they um offered me the partnership, and then about two years later, this role came up for head of wealth of so it kept me kind of pushing that next thing, and they're also supporting me with um a master's in business with admin.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so lots of opportunities and pushing and just to keep me going.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I like to be challenged and busy, so it's really yeah, it's offered me everything I needed.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, good.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's really I think that's a really interesting point to mention because lots of the firms that I deal with from a recruitment perspective, they might see people that have been at a firm for like two years and then have moved somewhere else for two years, um, and view that sometimes unfortunately as a bit of a red flag.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: But it's really interesting to hear from someone who's obviously been really successful and has found what might be their forever home and saltered, that really this looking from moving from one job to another is due to the fact that you want to be challenged, you're hungry to learn more, you're ambitious, you're motivated, which are really all key drivers of an excellent employee, rather than the negative connotations that can sometimes come from that.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's a really good thing to highlight to people in our audience that are also hiring managers or come within a position of influence in their business, that something that you might view as a red flag, you're actually missing out on a whole set of attributes which make someone a really strong individual, really.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's um, you know, I'll always ask if I see like CVs with gaps or with um moving around, is I'll always ask because as well, I think you have to find the right place for you so that they will push you, that you can give something to that role.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I always say to people when I'm when I'm intering now as well, like I want them to learn about us as well, because if it's not the right fit for them, and that's like completely understandable, they need to they need to feel like this is a home for them too, where they can get everything they need.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I try and talk to them about, and that's why I think it's really important to talk about the boring days of a role because sometimes there are tougher days.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking just before this, and you know, sometimes you might struggle to get through the number of emails you've got, or so sometimes there are days that aren't as rewarding, maybe, as other days.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to be like honest about where you're going as well as like where this person's their experience has been and why they've moved through that path.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's definitely got to be a two-fit, hasn't it?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to be, it's gotta be right for the individual and right for the company.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think, yeah, it just goes to show that those things, and as you said, as a hiring manager, you ask those questions and ask about those gaps.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: But some people aren't that forward-thinking, and it just goes to show that there is always reasons behind that and and don't miss out on someone who could be a great fit for your business because of a preconceived conception that you may have.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that comes from someone like yourself, as you mentioned, who has been a hiring manager and has definitely gone through that interview process.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, for you personally, like what has been your key driver?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned that you want to be challenged.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Has that been just in terms of like progressing within roles, examinations, you know, what are those different elements that really get you fired up?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: I would actually say as well, like over time it's changed.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've I kind of um in different roles, I've kind of um like moving through.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to progress and I wanted to um, you know, be able to give back to a business and have it like a contributing part as well.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: So you want to like progress to a stage where actually you're changing something or something you bring in, you see it happen and it's really exciting, that kind of um giving back in a way.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I'd say most recently I've really enjoyed since maybe um being head of parents actually looking at other people and where their skills lie and coaching or supporting them or looking at their progression and helping them move through.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: I that's something that um probably I didn't I'd never really thought about until you were in a management role, that that would be something that drives me.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: But um sitting down and talking to people that you know, looking at them at the Christmas party.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: There's a a guy actually that um I was talking about, I'm hoping you won't mind me mentioning him.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: Someone else who's uh I think he's 26 now.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: He came in as a graduate, he worked on my team when I was head of parent planning, and I also helped him when he moved to another team where he started like junior advising, and he's now um like a fully fledged qualified virtual advisor at um 26.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, always welcome.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like it's just it's so that's such a nice feeling.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: You think I had like a small amount of a part in that, but making sure he had the track to run on, like that was nice.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Management, I think, is uh a really undervalued role.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think financial planning as an industry is such an amazing industry because you can add such tremendous value to other people, but management is like another layer within that where you can add tremendous value to the people in your organization and to people within your profession.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: I am also like an assistant manager at Recruit UK and I completely empathise with what you're saying, you know, having speaking to people that have their own wobbles and one reason or another, and then you know, you get that text or they pull you aside in the office being like, I've just done this, and you know that you played a part in boosting that morale or giving them the tools that they needed to execute it themselves and seeing how happy they are just gives you that warm, fuzzy feeling.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: You can have a day at work where you feel like it's not gone the best, but if you've seen the team around you, you know, do really well, you go home with a sense of achievement then really.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: So talking about like the leadership side of things, I'm gonna blow your trumpet here, Alice, because you're obviously short shortlisted for team leader of the year.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: So um you've obviously so you've obviously like a very good, renowned sort of leader in your own right.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess from your side of things, lots of people I think have ambitions to step into management.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely wanted to step into management, but you know, what do you think makes a good manager or what are those attributes that you can pick out?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the things I always say, which I know it sounds a bit um, I don't mean it to sound empty or like is is um trying.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: You won't always get it right.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: You you won't, and you'll have tough conversations or you'll need to have tough conversations, but trying to get the best outcome and always having like that best intention and like kindness.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you sometimes tough conversations need to happen because actually it's just a small little thing, and actually if they improve it, they're like the world opens up to them.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: So just trying to be the best you can be to support them is probably one of my like favourite things, you know, because like I say, you just won't get it right.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: And if you put too much pressure on yourself to get it right, I think you've got more chance of like scuffering yourself because you're you know, it's all too, you know, maybe forced or um so I've had people where we put them on progression plans and they're doing a great job, but there's something like just feeling that they're maybe not that content with where they're going.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it's hard.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: So sitting down and actually saying, How are you feeling?
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to try something else?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's not like the nicest feel.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want you to think that you know we're giving up on him or anything, but you've you've just got to try and see actually with your gut and your kindness, as long as you've got a relationship that you're building these people, that you can actually go, what is it that you actually want and where do you want to go?
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because the path sometimes from like CS paraplanning, sorry, client services or admin to paraplanning to um advising seems so like dead set, and people feel like that's the only route, or and um and it's wonderful we have a route like that, and someone was on it and they were doing a cracking, like meeting all the markers, but I could feel something in them that we talked to them about, there was no oh, you know, like wonderful, warm, fuzzy feeling, and um, and it's hard to say to them, you know, is is this what you want?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: But you have to try and get them to open up and sit with them, and you know, that was a tough call to make because I don't want to think I didn't want them to do it.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's I'd probably just say the right intentions, effort, kindness, and you're just listening to them, to be honest with you, letting them lead and you supporting them where they go.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think kindness is such a big thing.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think there's definitely like a fine line between management where you've got to be their, you're their manager, you're not always their friend.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think it's that very fine line of like juggling both of them because I I want everyone to know that I'm their biggest supporter and their biggest cheerleader.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's my like what I enjoy most about management, but you've also got to have that element of holding people accountable and questioning them when you don't think that something is right.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's I something I personally struggle with because you always want to be that positive character.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you potentially approach those a bit more confronting conversations?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure there's hiring managers or potential leaders listening to this that you know it's the positive sign sounds great, but how do you handle those more negative conversations?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's really tough.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: I I would say before you even go in, you need to make sure that with that person you have a relationship of like trust and you're open to feedback too.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think if um they know that I'm not going to write all the time and they can tell me I'm gonna write all the time, um, then they know that we're in like a free open space where we can talk about things.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the thing I've also always said is that um it's actually really kind to tell people, it's not easy, it will be hard, but it's actually the kindest thing to do is tell them where they're maybe not meeting the grade or maybe struggling in your opinion, because they may not know, they may have other things going on, just wait for someone to ask.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you you can put in place that support.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I tend to sit down um with people, talk to them about the outcome that maybe isn't desirable, say, Oh, you know what's going on here, and the numbers were lower this month, or whatever the kind of the thing is, um and then work backwards and kind of say, Okay, and do you feel like that's sufficient or you're comfortable with that number?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: How are you feeling about it?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Start to work out, and then you can kind of maybe offer some help or some support and go, actually, well, I was wondering if maybe we could get you onto this training for that, could it really open you up?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: And usually once you show people are aware, like if you go um a really simple path, you know, if you've got a target and they haven't met it, you know, people know that, so you can sit down and sort of say, Oh, is there something going on or what's happened there?
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you can unpack it backwards rather than kind of going and think, I think you're being a bit lazy this month.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: But you can get back to that and kind of maybe go, okay, so why doesn't this happen?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Or I'm feeling demotivated at the minute, and you can actually then work backwards, which is the way that I that's my preference.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think that openness and kindness though is is key because if you are someone who is open and kind, those those times when you have got to be a bit more assertive, people understand that there's a reason for that.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think you just touched on as well that, like, other, you know, someone might not have performed that month as well as you would have hoped, you know, whatever role that might be in and what that means in terms of KPIs.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: But you mentioned then, like, is something else going on?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like there in those kind of conversations or as a good manager, there's that unpacking of the personal as as well as the professional?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's really important.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: And people may not want to tell you people, you know, that it's completely understandable, however, they want to take it.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I think giving them the chance to say, you know, if anything's going on, like we really want to support you, you know, we have compassionate leave and sick leave and all these things that you're all these tools at your disposal, you know, if something's going on at home, you can change their hours for a period of time, like you know, what we just need to know the best way to support you to be successful in your role.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's like all I need to know.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: So if there's something going on, and um like a lot of the I can't like stress enough, the thing for me is building that relationship with people.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's quite hard sometimes.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think as a leader, sometimes you have to share to build it because it has to be equal.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if someone's going through something saying, I can completely understand where you are, and you know, I've I've had X, Yz Z, or you know, this I you know, you can just sit in the boat with them rather than like outside the boat, which I feel like makes a big difference for people that you literally have your arm around them, like metaphorically, like you can literally just say, I can't even imagine you know, that's happened to me, or this, you know, take as long as you need, and they can really feel it rather than it being like, you know, HR says you can take two uh compassionate leave days, and it's actually just getting in with them and sitting with them and building that relationship so they actually know everything is genuine and coming from a genuine place, even when you know underperformance is triggered by something going on at home because then you can have it, and they know, like you say, if they know you're a reasonable person and you've built a relationship and you're reasonable in all other aspects, you can say to them, you just the thing I'm worried about is if you this is this going on at home, it's affecting the performance.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: We are measuring performance.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're in uh you know five days a week, we're measuring on five days a week.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we just need to know the best way to support you to to hit whatever targets are fair at the time.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you it's it's kind of having that reasonable open discussion, I'd be saying.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think then empathy is a really important you know thing for a team leader to be able to have, you know, not be shut off from what other people's experiences are, but to really feel feel what their team is feeling?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I think you do have to, like I say, get in the boat and and kind of really because things affect people differently as well.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: So something that maybe you have experienced something similar or um but that it hit you know it hits different, we're all different.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: But I think listening to them and understanding being empathic, but with a level of people also like um that like security.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, don't worry, leave it with me, I'll go get the command leaf.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: So that kind of like um confidence, you don't have to worry about this, you go take the time and just being able to support them being empath empathic but without like running in and kind of going, don't worry, you know, you do what you need to do because people deal with it so differently, you know.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: I've um I've had people who would rather send me a message and say, Uh like I can't talk about it at the minute, but this is what's happening, so we can have an email exchange.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not gonna press someone to have a video call with me when they are teary, and that's not something they're comfortable doing.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's however that person needs to deal with it at the time.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: And if someone someone wants a hug, then that's their other end of the spectrum and they can come in and we can have that conversation.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: But you need to let people do it their way.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: So it's almost like being empathic, but reflecting rather than giving the level of empathy you would like, because that's not what everybody is comfortable with.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: I guess understanding everyone's individual needs, but being empathetic towards their feelings, how they handle it and their the situation.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's very a very multifaceted approach.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I guess, like I I said, like I'm assistant manager at Recruit UK, I totally wear my heart on this my sleeve.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone knows if I'm having a bad day, if I'm having a good day.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: People know if someone's annoying me at home, like I just wear everything on my sleeve.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: I just got a big mouth.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: I can't, I can't help it.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I think on the flip side, that really helps when people come to me with a problem because I will have a frown on my face and people might be like, Oh, are you okay?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll be very open and honest.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm having a bit of a bad day today.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: This is going on, but I think that means it sets a standard of then the team or other people within the business being able to approach you because they yeah, you we're all human.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think that is probably the the biggest thing about being a manager is displaying that humanity.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I am a human being, you're a human being, and we're all in this situation together.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone's got stuff going on, everyone's busy, every, you know, like we've all fracture sometimes.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: Even I say sometimes like you might have on a bad day, whether it's like something life-changing is happening, or you stubbed your toe, we're getting out of the car on the way in.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like you, you know, we all are humans and you carry, like I call us like emotional sponges.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: You carry like that with you, you know, like you always stub my toes.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: There's a little bit like oh, and then oh, and you know, so there's sometimes you have like those days which I try and like avoid but you know, oh, you dropped your coffee and you stubbed your toe and curved your car, like you know, and you come in and you're all a bit like sponged.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you grabbed all of that.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a it's a weird thing to kind of um be aware of.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like it might not even be a big thing that day that that performance was tricky, or it you know, just letting them have a minute to think about, and sometimes it's just reflecting, like let them have a minute, have a chat, be a human, like they say, wait hardly, let them let them be open, safe space, quiet space, out the way, like, and then you can just hopefully work through it, find the solution, or they go, oh no, just yeah, I'm I'm back.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was just having a bit of a funk or something, or you know, they you know, give them a space to do it.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really proud, and it sounds like Solstice is very similar, but I'm very proud of how Recruit UK's attitude towards um mental well-being and mental health is because as I said, I wear my heart on the sleeve, everyone knows what's going on, and I like to feel that other people within our business can't be very open and honest about where they are at, whether that is something that is broached in a one-to-one because of we've said, you know, you look a bit demotivated, whether that is someone really reaching out to you.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I think mental health is very much something that is spoken about within the workplace.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we're very open about us being humans and not just being robots that do our job and then get turned off at five pm.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I know people within our company or even, you know, businesses that you speak to, which is very archaic in its approach of like, you know, this is your workspace.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: You walk in the door, you leave that outside, you don't bring that like a really sharp divide in between what is like the personal and what is the professional.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: I know mental health and speaking about that, you know, in a in a work environment is really important to you.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: So would you like to elaborate on that a bit further and you know why that why that's something that you're passionate about?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think um we're all human, as we said, like you would be a robot if things didn't affect you.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just really important.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: We are people, and if you want the best out of people, actually them having a bit of time or whatever they whatever they need, like it's up to they need to tell us.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's the only thing we need them to like tell us what they need, tell us what's going on, but they should tell us what they need so we can make sure that we are doing everything within our realms of support.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we've got really lovely um um like benefits.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: So we we get uh paper support and there's like counselling on offer, there's all these things, and I'm quite happy to speak to people about my experiences with like having counselling as a young adult.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like we go through so many changes as human beings, and like the world is such a strange place sometimes.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I think talking about and saying to people like if you can hear something in someone else.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: I had a conversation with someone about um performance recently, and you kind of go, you know, is there is there anything else going on?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: And they kind of sort of say, Oh, it's it's just this, and but my friend said that's like really normal to all nervous about this.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it may be normal to people, you don't have to accept it though, you don't have to like sit in it, so you know, maybe think about this, there's this great tool, and just knowing what's there and what we offer, not just in terms of like personnel policy, like holiday and sit, but also being like there is so many more tools out there, and you know, it's where I thought.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if you can just gently mention that I've had it before and it's really good, and this is how it helped me.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: I just think you can kind of like help debunk the taboo, and it's you know, on one-on-one conversations, it's really quiet, it's not something that like usually you shout about, but if you're having that and just opening up being like, Yeah, it's really good, and this is what's on offer, and make sure you use it.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I've had messages from people that go, Oh, I contacted them, I got sessions booked in, it's really good.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's just even if you um I there's a thing about you know, you have to be like at a certain point to use you know counseling or to use certain um support, but you it's just we're all human, we need to unload some stuff, need to unpack some stuff, went through it, why is it happening?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so I think I'd say it's probably partially down to debunking taboo and stuff, and yeah.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: We do like, you know, on we have a huddle as you call it with all of our uh team there, and we've talked about things during COVID and we set up groups during COVID just to help with positivity, mental health, keeping going and stuff.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's just literally gently not enforcing it on people, not pushing it, something aren't ready, but just mentioning it and being not uncomfortable by talking about it.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think anything we talk about naturally like debunks that that myth and makes it something that people are more accessible because we're we're speaking about it, we're throwing it out there into the open.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: And from someone that's done two courses of counselling, both, you know, having paid for by my workplace or funded by my workplace, I understand how those small tools can make such a massive difference in your outlook.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I will very always very openly speak about it because I think the best analogy for me is like people may feel like they don't need to access it, but like if you've got a bad knee and you you you keep falling over and the knee hurts and you trip and you go, I've really pulled that knee.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: You someone goes to go to the doctor, you'd never go, oh no, I won't.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: You'd you'd always go and access that support.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's the same with your mental health.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like it might be a small thing, but you might seem to be keep tripping, it might keep bothering you.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like there is support, like services out there that that can support you.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I'm always very grateful to be part of a business that offers counselling as a benefit because I think it's one of the easiest but most simplest things that firms can do to support their employees.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: So coming from a place where we spend a lot of time at work, you know, you spend a lot of time, we probably spend more time seeing people that I work with than my partner, um, who he might say that's a good thing.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: But do you think, you know, workplaces, organizations can actually, you know, we're talking about adding value here, can play a big part in supporting their employees' mental health.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: And do you think that's important in having that infrastructure?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think so.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think as well, what we underestimate is the small things like having these difficult conversations with people like these can really impact people's like self-worth, their you know, it's how you do all those small things as well.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, having great benefits is great, but you know, if you um having your leadership team, having empathy and awareness and and kindness when they deal with stuff too.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I do think it is it's it's the small things that make a huge difference.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, I can have difficult conversations with people, and my tone won't change.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there might not be quite so many high pitches in it, but that you know, your tone uh doesn't need to change because you don't know what's going on at home, and if they take that home with them, that their self-worth affected by a different conversation.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, when actually it's just a minor thing that you should work through, and how do we help?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's so much more than just being like, Oh, we have a great benefits package, da da da.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's also like um team engagement, you know.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: So uh making sure they feel part of the group.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, like I say, we have something that we call the HUDL, which is on a Thursday with all 200 staff members, it's fantastic, and our like CEO or other board members that usually run it, and it's we we do all like the lovely thing.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just like uh we do a news bulletin on like how the markets are doing and all the like that kind of thing, but we do someone's got married, we put photos up, someone engaged, we put photos up.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we do like make sure that everyone feels connected to something as well, which I think makes a for me, it's definitely like that warm, fuzzy feeling about being solstice and feeling like I know most of these 200 people, and I actually have a lot of care for them as people makes such a big difference.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: So you get less of that like little emails where it's like a little bit of a tone or cats lots of like, you know, Alice, can you do the you you know those people?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh hi, this like I hope you had to give me Ken because I knew you were doing something, or so and so got engaged.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: You have like an affiliation as well, which I think personally for me, and you know, my mentor has been so much nicer because they're your people, people treat you like people, even if you're quite far removed.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you see your mates get engaged, you we put up thank yous as well on the on the HUDAR.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: So we have a system where you if someone's gonna open the bath, you submit them, and we get about 50 a weeks of admittance.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's so nice.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just it's like doing the little days will be hard, days will be boring sometimes.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there will be tough moments, and they'll be personally and professionally like so having just moments of connectivity and closeness and kindness and all these other things, as well as great benefits.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think it it means a lot.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Work doesn't have to be like you have to change your tone to be annoyed, you don't have to like run a really fair like the minute beginning of meetings.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: We have a really good laugh, you know, telling stories about kids and dogs and you know, just because they we're people, like you say, we're not here, you can't turn us off at the end of the day.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like you just need to be kind to your body, as well as having lovely benefits and all the really important stuff too.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's really nice and the because you've got those tangible benefits, which are the things that you can like write down on paper, like your your employee assistance program, you know, compassionate leave and stuff like that.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: But you've got those intangible benefits that you can't put down, like that community feel and you know, things like that.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: And they go hand in hand, really, like one with another.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's a really good point to make.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think we've spoken about like that quite archaic, you know, viewpoint or mindset where, you know, mental health must be put at the door, outside problems must be put in the door, you're here for eight hours and you're here to to work and perform at 100%.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: But ultimately, you know, people that might be listening to this that might have that attitude from someone that comes from like a recruitment background, it's the mindset and the community feel that you created that salt of us have created, which in the long term retain staff because the amount of people that we speak to that are looking to leave their workplace because they're not getting enough flexibility, they they don't feel like a collaborative environment, it's probably one of the key reasons that people leave.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I think business owners can understand that you know, having a mindset like this, this kind of perspective, is also great for your business because happy employees stay, you know, happy employees don't look to leave elsewhere.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, from like a business perspective, to really look after your your staff creates for a happier workforce and a better working workforce, I'm sure, as well.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think some of it literally costs nothing.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it does mean that we all need to be like uh accountable for our own actions and emotions.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: So like if I go into the office and you know I'm a bit like ratty with someone, I have to be aware that that's it's up to me like to create that environment.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: And even in a certain meeting, it's like check yourself.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is gonna be a tough meeting, maybe I'm having a bad day, but you know, you you think to yourself, right, gonna get myself a coffee, first thing I'm gonna do, I'm gonna sit back and go, How are you doing?
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: You alright?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: Literally, because you think it's up to me, this vibe in this room is up to me.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like I can and in this office and in this team and in this whole community, it's you have the ability to change that or to influence it or to start it off.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you're the first person there at the summer party and the next person walks in, you don't say hello, you just sit quietly, you know.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's you know that's something you've created like a divided room already before anyone's even sort of turned up.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: So if you can go in and go, Hi, I was an agent.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh sorry, I don't think your name and they're literally like, Oh, everyone's like sort of atmosphere kind of changes.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, say even if it's a one-on-one meeting, if it's uh a big room, I think you just have to and you can have a bad day, but just see what you want to bring to this to this day.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it's a tough meeting, sometimes it's uh exciting one.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: You just what are you gonna bring to it and how are you gonna you know create that atmosphere in that office or that room?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and how are you just gonna make the officer happy, healthier, you know, more a better, better environment to be in, I think.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: And um, we've spoken then a lot about like pain points, I guess, that come from like mental health or like going through like um a period that might be a bit more negative.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: But another thing, and you know, I've spoken about how that's one of the key indicators where people look to leave.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: But I think another key indicator where people look to leave is not feeling like they have that progression plan in place, which I know is something that you're also really passionate about, is like spotting those training needs, you know, making sure that everyone is developing at a pace and down a route that they're comfortable on.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: So do you mind elaborating on that for us in a bit more detail?
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think um it's one is a tough one because sometimes people don't know themselves.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, sometimes you speak to people and actually they've got like no idea what they want to do or where they want to go.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and I'd say um I'm learning too, like how best to have these conversations, but I think um working through so we've made progression plans that do work from our client services or administrators through para planning into advising.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: We've got graduate schemes that move people around all the teams, and then they can decide what team they feel like they best suit.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's not always like straight through to advising, it's like your graduate assault it, so you might have a natural affiliation with data or with marketing.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll move around all the areas and we'll see where you go.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think what I found in this because we created the structure, which is great.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: We have um, you know, advisor assessment days.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to be advisor, they go to this day, they do a role-play stuff.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: We have graduate assessment days, so they come and then we'll see if we want to put them on graduate schemes.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: We have all these wonderful tools, but I think again, it literally all comes down to like communication and sitting with them and having a relationship because even on that process, their mind might change, they might go and do their stint on the graduate scheme in the data team, and actually they're like, I don't want to go anywhere else, this is the best place for me.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: So staying close to them and talking to them is like the most important thing through all of those stages.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, say we had someone who was well on their way to be an advisor and easily could have, you know, done it.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: He was so talented, but having like conversations with him and giving them a bits to do and still challenging him, he was like, You you know, he's looking up um power behind a spare time, you know, he was like, which is yeah, I'll even try and explain it, I'm not even too sure I know what it is, but he's looking up like data systems in his spare time, and you think, hmm, that's interesting.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: He's not on you know, um Financial Times, he's like, Oh, and how's this?
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: And he's bought himself a book, and so we sat him down with that data, no pressure, and then oh go, you know, go into the office, sit with the data team, ask him some questions, and sat him with a couple of other teams as well, just because we were like, oh no.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then he decided to um he wanted to be a second to that team, so we just gave him that.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's not like a route we have.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: We don't go sort of from paraplane to data regularly, but we just spent time with him, just talked to him, gone to speaking to that team.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, we'll psychology for six months, made sure we covered the team while he was gone.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he absolutely loved it.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: And at the in its sort of end of year review in December, he decided to stay.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's amazing.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: It goes to show as well that, like you said, like that communication is key, but also just having those frameworks in place and those structures and being able to, I guess, go into the grey when it's not so black and white.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so does everyone when they join Solters like have an element of like a development plan?
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: Is that something that like everyone is is implemented on, like depending on what their their journey may be?
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we don't have one for literally everyone at start.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: So what we're doing at the minute is we've we have like um they know they're there.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: So like they're kind of set paths um that sit there and we say to them, you know, there's a power planning progression path from client services, and that's a advisor progression path from paraplane.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: So you can go and reach out to them and look at them.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and for those set paths, we say to people, um, we'll deliver them to the individuals and say, This is what we told us you would love to do.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: So here you go, and it's got entry and exit criteria.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: So they can then lead on their performance.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: So if they want to do something quicker or slower, or they actually, as long as they're hitting those exit criteria and entry criteria, they know they can come to us and say, Right, I'm ready, because they've got it, it's like in their gift to own.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we do that with people once they express like the interest in the reviews.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: What we're starting to do now is bring in a more um set quarterly review process.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: So for every single person, they have a courtly review, they have objectives with key results, they have um these catch-ups with their team leaders, and we're bringing all this in so that literally I think it really I think it's even more than just progression, because it may be that you just love your job, and that's fantastic.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: But how do you know you're doing a great job?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: How do you do a better job?
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: How do you get rewarded more?
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we're bringing in that kind of like objectives within each role.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: So whether you want to then be on a progression plan or not, you know, you actually have your own personalized objectives for how you get to the next level of what entices you.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, like that guy, you know, his would be around data.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: So although his progression plan might still, because we wouldn't take that away from him, might still be looking so to advising, actually, is like objectives and key results are really personalized around exactly what he at that moment, before he knew what he did in data, he wanted to do this, he wanted to look at that.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: That would be way more personalized that we're bringing in now.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it sounds very much like you know, there is that opportunity to have that career development pass, but stops people from feeling stagnant because that is a thing that I hear very often from people that they just feel like they've they've teeded off.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: And people like to know what the next step looks like.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said, you might be in a position where you love your job, you you don't want to, you might be a panaplanner and you love paneraplanning um and you don't want to do anything else, but you have those metrics like, okay, I want to do more bespoke suitability report writing, or I want to do more like complex report writing.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess those having those small goals or criteria mean that like people continuously feel like they're developing because people like to know what the next step is, like what they need to achieve to be better.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that doesn't have to be like being a getting a promotion or getting a change in title.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: It can literally just be, I'm better at my job than I was when you spoke to me three months ago.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: I've improved from when we have three months ago.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's a massive thing.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: We also um we speak to people about we have a competency matrix, so two of different types of cases.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: And um sometimes we we talk to them as well about the fact that it doesn't have to go up every single you know quarter that we speak to them because it might be that they work with an advisor who um let's say in the run-up to tax your end, this is a very basic advisor, but they just do carry forwards, right?
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: There's just there's nothing else going on, and then the quarter after they're doing some carry-forwards and they're doing just ISO and GIAs.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: That that's okay.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: In those six months, maybe you haven't done any bonds, maybe you haven't done much cash flow work or something, you know, like I say, it's very simple.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: There's clearly a very simple advisor I've um picked here.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, there might be some things actually on your competitive matrix have gone down.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: But what we would do is go that that's okay.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, what we'll do is we'll say we'll take some cases from the salary advisor or the the pool that the other pool that um people work in, and your team will work with you to pull those cases in so that you can up that.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: So you'll have like constantly sort of fluctuating goals as well.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're focusing and you might do loads of bond cases because you've just pulled loads in, but maybe then you haven't done a carry forward for a couple of months, so it's like we'll just constantly keep and we know that you can't um you cannot be fresh on everything all the time, you know.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: You can't know off the top of your head how to do every type of calculation.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: You may have to refresh yourself if you haven't done for a while.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just making sure that also you're not too hard on yourself if some of your metrics go slightly backwards because you've done loads of bond cases, you're now like our bond specialist, but some of your other stuff is like maybe drop down that it will just give you a couple of hours to freshen you up now and again.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like that like if you had had a career framework like this or objectives that kept pushing you like this in like previous roles, it would have challenged you and enticed you more to stay rather than having that feeling of like I'm gonna look further afield now?
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I think that's definitely what um drives some of my like decisions now.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like when I'm looking at stuff and I'm like, oh, how can we make this more interesting?
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's definitely like, yeah, what would I have appreciated?
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: What could I view?
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: That kind of is definitely um, you know, you you do look at what you'd have appreciated, definitely, and think about it.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: But I what I have to work on, like I say, I feel like we're all learning, you know.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've been managing people for like three years or something that I'm not perfect and I will hopefully keep learning.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like things that we all need to work on is not everybody's like us either.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: So people maybe don't want to be pushed as hard as I was pushed, or they may not want to, like, say, have that next step, they may want to just be great at this, like one, they might want to be a subject matter expert, or so it's it's also trying not to push on your like views or your standpoint to people and actually go, the path is there, but you let me know if you want to take it, and then I'll support you like a hundred and ten percent.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: But I will not push you, you know.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'll give you the encouragement, the support, the love, the cheerleading, whatever you need, but I'll not tell you or push you to take that.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, ultimately it's your decision at the end of the day, and ultimately, like you've gone through like quite a few leadership roles here.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: You've gone from like being in a leadership role previously, and then you've gone through soldiers, and you're you're head of power planning, now you're like a in a the head of operational kind of role.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you deal with that managed leadership side of it things yourself?
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you get imposter syndrome and have those moments when you're a bit like, what am I doing?
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know I sure as hell do.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think um it's really natural.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think that I um find that it's like you your level of comfort like each time.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: So like I got comfortable, um, I sort of knew I was doing day-to-day managing paraplans, and now I manage like team leaders, and I manage like heads of.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, like each time it's like that extra bit you become like, Well, this is kind of big.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: Does anyone realize like has anyone sort of caught me out?
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh my god.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I genuinely just cut like the team have been so wonderful.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think if you've got um there's like massive respect for you, if you've like worked your way up, if people, you know, you're kind to them, if you're doing all these wonderful things and building a relationship with them, you don't um have to behave any differently.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like it, you know, I still go into meetings, I went into one taking like, hi mate, like and it's one of the guys in class services, and he you knew we're having a good chat about where he wants to go.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, just we're just two human beings, and it was very sweet actually.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: I was actually um interviewing them for for another role at Psalters, which is exciting.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and he went, Ah, he's like done really well here, and it was really sweet.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was so sweet, yeah.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we started like not long after each other.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: So um it was just so lovely that um but but I appreciate that.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh thank you, babe.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like I really appreciate that.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like what you know, what can we do like for you?
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think just wherever you are, it's just literally being a human, listening to them.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like you will feel imposter syndrome from time to time.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I think there was um a Stephen Butler thing that he was saying, like, look at it differently, like you're in this like new position.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: You should you should feel a bit like, well, like you're taking that responsibility like seriously.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I wouldn't give someone an answer if I didn't know, wasn't sure, take it away.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: Just give them the confidence you've got it, and you will do your absolute best to take care of that situation for them.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I definitely feel like imposter syndrome like comes with comes with a level of like discomfort.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like you feel a bit like I think that's the best way for me to describe it.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like it all it all it feels uncomfortable, like you feel like you're in a little bit of an uncomfortable situation.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: But the best way for me to describe it, or the best way to wrap my head around it, was like, you know, growth is uncomfortable.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: If you didn't spend, if you spent the rest of your career constantly feeling comfortable, you wouldn't push yourself, you would be speaking to the same people, not broaching those difficult conversations, you know, not taking that step up like growth is uncomfortable.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: And whenever I have that uncomfortable feeling now, and they're like, this is you, like that that next petal like blossoming that you've just grown a little inch taller in terms of like a flower.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I'm growing.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: But that it that's what it is at the end of the day, you know.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it think you've obviously done so well in sort of this, and I think it's it's um nice to hear that you still occasionally have that feeling of like, okay, like this isn't uncomfortable, but I think it's sometimes like what this whole conversation is about, is that we are all human and to make sure that even if it's a professional capacity alongside it, not a personal one, to treat people that you're with with the same amount of respect that you would treat everyone.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that leads really nicely into my next point in terms of like diversity and inclusion is always something that you've been really passionate about as well.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: Also, like the idea that you know we are all human and we are all equal.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, do you mind talking to about that that a little bit further for us, please, Alice?
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that that's um very close to my heart in lots of different like aspects.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: And um, we talked about this before, but sometimes like diversity, you know, we there are some bits that you look at, but it's also just thinking about the whole, just everybody, we're all different.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, so I mentioned to you before that so my parents are in same-sex relationship, and I feel like for me that's just helped, like it's since I was like to uh you know it just opens you up to different worlds, different groups of people, and I don't know how to explain it.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's just I see that's you know, I see people as who they are and what they bring to the conversation and to the world and to everything rather than you know, sort of any kind of labels.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, which is I really enjoy, and we've moved into like a diversity and inclusion um brought in this committee basically.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's employee-led, so it was myself and a few employees opened up because we were just passionate about it in so many ways.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I had a lady on my team who basically has been diagnosed with autism, and while she's been working with me, I've never um experienced it before.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: I've never it's never been something that came up, I've never managed someone with autism, but we spent a lot of time talking about it, being really open.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: She sent me those links to read, and it's just been like that openness and that kindness, and just spending time with them, and every individual person is so different, and what they need is different, and giving them all like I say, this the space to be successful, you know.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: She tells me um what's not useful.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, when you communicate like this, I don't really get where you're coming from.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: I need you to do this, this, and this.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's great, amazing.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, all I want is to make sure that all of them are successful, but progression plans, whether it's you know, talking to them a certain way that communicates that makes it easier.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is just it makes me really excited to be able to um just make small amendments to my day or the way I would talk or the way I would communicate, that actually makes a huge difference to their ability to be successful at Saltis.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, it it's one of those things that I never really thought about before.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: But when we when I got to Saltus and all these things and people are different, and we didn't have um a diversity committee, but we were like, we want to be better.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like so it was we're all trying, we're all learning, and going actually we need this.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: And we did um a big presentation to the whole company on neurodiversity with different types, and yeah, it just I think being open to it and making sure you're just kind because it's what I wanted to ask her, and it wasn't um I was asking her what she needed from me, and sometimes that maybe makes people feel awkward to be like, oh, you know, don't mention it.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually like, but I wanna I want to know, send me things, let me read content, let me you know, help you.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: Let we have the most lovely relationship since it's really helped.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've been able to like mediate conversations for her because the communication's been tricky.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: She's actually asked me to come along.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's been a really nice experience and like opened me up to way more types of diversity.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, our industry lacking diversity um in terms of gender and all the kind of those kind of things, which is hugely important, but there is so much more to it.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think I'm just so much more aware of all the different types of people and neurodivergence and all these things that crop up and you don't maybe think about straight away.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: I was about to say, like, I think when we talk about and I think diversity and inclusivity within financial planning is always something that I've been really passionate about.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: But even I, when I think about diversity and inclusivity in financial planning, go straight to gender and ethnicity.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's naturally where my mindset travels to.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think you've come from a background where you've been exposed to a different level of like diversity from a young age that it's something that you're a bit more conscious of and you're aware of because you've had that exposure.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously talking about this lady with um like being neurodivergent, it just shows you that diversity and inclusivity in itself is so diverse.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I feel like we can quite often pigeonhole it towards those conversations on gender and ethnicity, which don't get me wrong, are super important, but we forget that there are other, you know, sub-categories and other categories of this wider picture, which are also super important.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: On your side of things, like from a profession perspective, do you think it's important to like promote it so we are more inclusive?
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: So getting people from these different backgrounds into the industry?
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: The one um that we also sometimes forget is socioeconomic.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_01: So um, I'm super passionate about as well.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because I wasn't in a position to go to university just because it it was like sort of unaffordable, but we weren't in a position where um we got lots of help, but we weren't in a position where we could afford to support me when I was doing it as well.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's an important one too.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes in our industry we have a tendency to people have to have Russell Group University degrees, they have to come from this background, they have to, you know, do these certain things.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um we forget that's not all of a person, that's not all they are, is their university or where they've come from, or who, you know, because sometimes people get um internships through like family friends and stuff, which is also it's a wonderful opportunity, definitely.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: But it we have to remember that people haven't come from those, you know, experiences, so including you know, neurodivergence, so socioeconomic backgrounds and stuff.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's it's just really important that um as an employer you take each individual, and like we were even saying about the job hopper, you take every individual, give them that chance as long as they've got the minimum criteria.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: But as long as the minimum criteria that you set is needed for the job, you know, do you need a Russell Group University degree or do you need like level six learning?
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't have a degree, but I have my level six subchartered French planner with LRBS.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, but technically, um when I went to do so, when I went to my MBA, lots of universities wouldn't take me because they wouldn't count my level six as level six learning.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they wanted a bachelor's.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: So even with experience and even with you know, uh level six learning, they wouldn't take me.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: So we have to make sure that what we're saying is actually needed for the role, or is it preferred?
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because we'd like to know you can learn to a level six, you know, or we'd like to know that you came from a certain university.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: Great, or we'd like you to have um a banking and finance degree, I don't know, whatever the thing, but is it preference or is it actually essential to that role?
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: And why do you think from an industry perspective it's important to like be include like what do you think that what value do you think that adds to the industry?
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: Having loads of diverse people from loads of different backgrounds, what value does that add?
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: We we just match your um client bank as well so much better.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you you actually you've got all these ideas from all these different people with different backgrounds, and your clients actually see themselves in your team.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like we um we see there's not enough, you know, not enough, in my opinion, female advisors.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: So people may we, you know, women who are managing their own finances might be looking at um your businesses board, they might be looking at your list of advisors on your website, like they, you know, they're aware and they they want to be represented, you know, they have different ethnicities, they want to see themselves in your board as well.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's not just about actually so it's like commercial as well as being um so diverse that you've got different ideas, different skills, different talents, like wonderful things.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: You also it's it's commercial to make sure that you are reflecting your clients.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: They're not going to want to work with people who actually, it's it's 2023, they want to see themselves in your team.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's amazing because so many of the points that we've spoken about, you know, diversity and inclusivity, you know, like mental health in the workplace and having that empathy towards your staff, like that having those like career development and progression plans, like we speak to them about how they add value to the individual.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_00: But if we look at the wider picture, they do also help your business.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, having staff that is happy and feel supported only makes them work harder.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like individuals that feel challenged and motivated only makes them work harder.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people that are within a business where they feel like they're included, you know, they feel part of a community only makes them work harder.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_00: So these are great things for the individual, but from a commercial perspective, you know, great to bring them for your business.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: You're only gonna, you know, the your business is driven by the people that are within it, you know, the happier and the more supported your workplace feel, the the better they're gonna support your clients that are part of it.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's really interesting how it all interlinks so nicely together.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um and just I'm gonna end it.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think from a management point of view, um, and I mentioned this before, I think it's a great nugget of wisdom that you obviously are a you've been a hiring manager, you you you've been a team leader, you to speak a lot about like how career and progression development is something that you're really passionate about.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: But lots of people feel like, you know, they're in a business where they're not progressing at the rate that they want to or into the roles that they want to.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_00: And as you mentioned and said rightfully, that communication is so key.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: But people very often feel like they struggle to broach that conversation.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: But coming from a hire manager's perspective, you know, anyone that's listening to this in this audience that would like to progress, would like to take that next step, but struggling to have that conversation with their hiring manager or their boss or wherever it is, how would you say that they broach it?
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_01: I would always say, right, so this is uh depending on you know who that like hiring manager or who if you're trying to progress in your own business, it's always if you can try and do the same things we've been talking about, like as a manager, is like setting the tone for that room and just make sure that you can be as calm as you can be.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe you're frustrated, maybe you're let down, maybe you're feeling like a bit grumpy, but if you can go in there and you can say to them, I've really appreciated everything you've done to me, like this far.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's been amazing.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just starting to feel like a bit of a plateau, and I'd love to like see what next steps there are.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like to have a conversation about where I could go.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_01: And if you can know a little bit about yourself, if you do know, if you know that you would like and have a good thing, so don't just feel that you have to go, I want to be an advisor because maybe they have a advisor path.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_01: Think about it and go, I'd like to talk about maybe seconding or talk about maybe like speaking to those other managers of other teams and offer something up to you know your your team leader or your manager and just say, you know, like in a way that's like I've really appreciated everything so far, but I'm just I'm just ready for like something else.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm ready for you know a challenge and you know, and you know, a little bit of like I know this company loves to get people regressing, so I just I want to be a part of that, like you know, that giving them a bit of um excitement around it, but because I know some of these conversations by that time you might be a little bit frustrated because you think they maybe should know or you maybe should have had some support.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: But if you can kind of like bring them on side and be like, I want this because I want to be here, I love this place.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, help me to find my spot here.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think any hire any like manager, leader, hiring manager would be just so overwhelmed by being like, they they love it, they want to be here.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: What can I do?
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let me help, you know.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much, Alice, for taking the time to speak with me this morning.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's been a great conversation, but I think the overlying theme, and I think it's a brilliant theme to pull out is just how communication is key.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we are an industry about communicating with we were an industry about communicating with our clients, you know, businesses that communication is key on all different levels, and just that we're all human.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think nice little note to end on is just be kind, be nice to the people around you, your employees, your uh colleagues, just just be kind and it will all come back round.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's been brilliant.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much, Alice.