Latest / Pediatrics Now: Cases Updates and Discussions for the Busy Pediatric Practitioner / Addressing Pain in Children: Strategies for Effective Management
Transcript
- 0:02I'm Holly Wehment, and this is Pediatrics Now, cases, updates,
- 0:07and discussions for the busy pediatric practitioner.
- 0:10Today, we're talking about addressing pain in children.
- 0:15This talk has been designated by UT Health San Antonio for one credit of education
- 0:21in pain management and the prescription of opioids.
- 0:24One of the things that I think is so awesome about this podcast is we can bring
- 0:30you talks that you don't have time to attend.
- 0:33This talk is from our recent pediatric grand rounds.
- 0:39It's called Addressing Pain in Children.
- 0:42The speaker is Dr. Melissa Fry-Jones. She's a professor of pediatrics in our
- 0:48division of pediatric hematology oncology.
- 0:52Pediatrics Now is brought to you by the Department of Pediatrics at UT Health
- 0:57San Antonio and University Health's new Women's and Children's Hospital.
- 1:02Let's listen in to this talk on addressing pain in children.
- 1:07So I have no financial disclosures. I will be discussing off-label use of medications
- 1:11because many pain medications,
- 1:13especially different types of opioids, are not actually FDA approved for children
- 1:17and infants, though we have used them as part of clinical practice for many, many years.
- 1:24And so officially it's off-label, but we have plenty of data to support the
- 1:29use of these medications.
- 1:31So my learning objectives today, I'm going to think a little bit about the complexities
- 1:34of pain and pain assessment that varies between this dramatically different
- 1:39group of patients we take care of from infants, children's, to adolescents.
- 1:44Development plays a huge role in helping us understand pain and pain assessment.
- 1:48We're going to explore some of the pharmacologic and non-pharmacologic methods of pain management,
- 1:54talk about pain management in some special populations, and then we're going
- 1:57to talk a little bit about prescribing opioids in the modern era,
- 2:00which includes some of the guidelines that involve pain contracts,
- 2:05the prescription monitoring database, and how we now prescribe opioids electronically.
- 2:12So, you know, what is pain? I mean, the basic definition, you know,
- 2:17it's an unpleasant sensory or emotional experience.
- 2:20So just to highlight how complex pain is, who we are, what we're feeling,
- 2:26what's going on at the moment it's happening directly impacts how we experience
- 2:30this unpleasant sensation.
- 2:32And it may be associated with actual or potential tissue damage.
- 2:37So, you know, the classic picture of you putting your hand on the stove and
- 2:40withdrawing it because the heat or the fire is causing tissue damage.
- 2:45Though sometimes the damage isn't as obvious or, you know, the experience is
- 2:53described in terms of such damage.
- 2:56So as, you know, as people who take care of patients, you know,
- 3:01when, when do, when is pain, pain?
- 3:03The, the basic tenet among pain practicing physicians is, you know,
- 3:09pain is whatever the person experiencing it says it, you know,
- 3:13you'll learn that there is no test.
- 3:16There's no objective test that I can do. There's no lab work. There's nothing.
- 3:21Even sometimes vital signs cannot tell the whole truth about the pain a patient is experiencing.
- 3:28And so whatever the patient says is their pain, that is what we are supposed
- 3:33to believe and to address them based on their experience since I cannot experience it for them.
- 3:40So pain exists if the person experiencing it says it does. and the patient is
- 3:45going to be the authority on pain.
- 3:48So we'll talk a little bit about some of the different types of pain that patients can experience.
- 3:53So we can think about acute pain. So this is, you know, sudden onset,
- 3:57should be self-limited over a period of time.
- 4:01It usually involves a couple of different types of pathways.
- 4:06And so the nociceptive pathway, that's sort of our classic example I just mentioned,
- 4:12And, you know, putting your hand on the hot stove and withdrawing it.
- 4:15And so that pain sensation is in the nociceptive pathways.
- 4:20And so the normal processing of those pathways include both somatic input.
- 4:26So from our bones, our joints, our connective tissue, sometimes in people who
- 4:31can describe the pain, it's aching or throbbing.
- 4:34And usually you can localize the pain.
- 4:36Like it's this finger that hurts. But this also nociceptive pain is part of
- 4:43how our visceral system, so our organs, our soft tissue, so like our intestines are visceral.
- 4:50And when you have diarrhea and have cramping, that's a nociceptive pain process.
- 4:55And so visceral pain can sometimes be localized, but it can also be diffuse,
- 5:00which can be one of the challenges of localizing those symptoms.
- 5:03And then another type of processing of pain is neuropathic.
- 5:09And so this is centrally mediated, and this can evolve for a number of reasons.
- 5:18One of the classic things that we'll sometimes use as an example is an individual
- 5:22who's had an amputation.
- 5:24So those nerves have been severed. Therefore, when they fire,
- 5:28they are abnormally processing because the localized place that would be injured
- 5:34and sending the signal is no longer there, but the nerves are firing. And so...
- 5:39That is an example of neuropathic pain. We can have centrally and peripherally mediated.
- 5:46Peripherally mediated is a little bit less common in pediatrics,
- 5:52though we can see it in our oncology population as a result of medical therapies like in Christine.
- 5:59This would be one of the conditions that adults may deal with in the diabetic
- 6:06populations who develop diabetic and or vascular peripheral neuropathies.
- 6:11These tend to be sharp, shooting, electric sensations.
- 6:18So the description of neuropathic pain is often very different than the description of nociceptive pain.
- 6:24And it often does not respond great to opioids. And so if the pain you're identifying
- 6:30as neuropathic, then choosing an opioid may not be the best choice.
- 6:35And then chronic pain. So we have a lot more awareness of chronic pain.
- 6:40We're trying to understand more about it. There's definitely lots of gaps in
- 6:45our knowledge, and we struggle to know exactly what to do for patients who develop
- 6:50chronic pain syndromes.
- 6:51But the general definition is that it's a pain sensation. So again,
- 6:56a patient expresses feeling something they identify as pain,
- 7:00present for at least three to six months.
- 7:02And it no longer serves the purpose of pain. It's no longer a warning sign that
- 7:07something bad is happening.
- 7:09It's just there all the time. And, you know, it can dramatically affect all
- 7:14aspects of a patient's life.
- 7:18It usually involves, you know, the sensation of the pain, emotion,
- 7:22cognition, memory, contact. Sometimes the pain is worse if they're in certain
- 7:26situations based on maybe the initial feelings of the pain.
- 7:31It could be nociceptive or neuropathic in quality. And it's one of our most
- 7:35difficult conditions to treat.
- 7:39Okay, so what about pain in children? You know, the classic saying,
- 7:45you know, children are not little adults.
- 7:47And so, you know, what are the special things that happen in children?
- 7:51Well, one is to note that the nociceptive pathways are functional at birth.
- 7:56Many, many years ago, there was a belief that babies couldn't feel pain.
- 7:59And so, you know, there was not felt to be a need to address that.
- 8:04Now we know infants can feel pain, and there are many interventions that are
- 8:08taken in our youngest patients to try to alleviate pain when they experience it.
- 8:15Pain triggers both physiologic and behavioral responses at all age.
- 8:20So no matter whether you're a toddler, a teenager, or an adult,
- 8:25you have physical sensations of your pain, but it also affects the way you react and behave.
- 8:29There are developmental changes in the pain pathway early in life that can impact
- 8:35your response to pain medicines and alter processing of pain later in life.
- 8:41Repeated exposure to untreated pain early in life leads to increased anxiety
- 8:45and perception of pain can make it more difficult to treat painful events in the future.
- 8:51Children require unique coping strategies that are different from those in adults
- 8:56because of developmental differences. is.
- 8:59Let's think about, you know, like what are some of the types of pain that we
- 9:02may encounter as we take care of children?
- 9:04Well, one of the first ones we can often think about is trauma.
- 9:08So accident, you know, the kid falls on the playground, they're riding a bike and they have an event.
- 9:15And then sports, we have many young children who participate in recreational
- 9:20and even higher level sports from very early ages.
- 9:24And that can result in them having lots of different pain complaints.
- 9:29I know there was a sports medicine lecture recently, you know,
- 9:32knee pain, all of those type of things.
- 9:34Then we have children who develop different types of cancer.
- 9:38The diagnosis itself can cause a lot of pain depending upon the location and type of cancer.
- 9:43The treatment of the cancer with surgery and medications and therapies that
- 9:49can also provoke more pain. We can have surgical pain, you know,
- 9:53for the child who has the tonsillectomy, who has the appendectomy.
- 9:57There are occasionally surgical procedures that our patients may have to experience
- 10:02and would need to have pain treatment. We can think about procedural pain.
- 10:07Sometimes this is maybe more minimized or dismissed, like, oh,
- 10:12everybody gets immunizations.
- 10:15You know, oh, it's just a little poke in the arm and lab draws,
- 10:18though those can be very difficult and very distressing for children and actually for many adults.
- 10:22This is kind of a side note, but there were some studies during the COVID pandemic
- 10:28that there were some adults who did not want to seek out the vaccine because
- 10:34of needle phobia, because they were more afraid of the needle.
- 10:36And so that is something that developed over time due to exposure to vaccines
- 10:42as a child and to adulthood.
- 10:44And so there were people who were looking at addressing that.
- 10:47So, you know, the fear and pain related to vaccines is real among our patients.
- 10:52And then we can have chronic disease-related pain syndrome. So our patients
- 10:55who have recurrent pancreatitis, many of our inflammatory bowel disease patients,
- 11:00patients who have juvenile arthritis, lupus, any type of chronic arthropathy,
- 11:04and then our sickle cell patients.
- 11:07And then there are other pains, you know, that we have to deal with,
- 11:10you know, the chronic functional abdominal pain, chronic headaches,
- 11:14the growing pains that people come in and report for children.
- 11:18We have to distinguish, is that, you know, just truly growing pains or is it
- 11:22something more pathologic?
- 11:23And then dental pain, you know, occasionally have patients come in with swelling,
- 11:28a broken tooth, a cavity, those type of things.
- 11:31So there are lots of parts of the body that can cause a patient to experience pain.
- 11:37So what are some of our issues and challenges in treating pediatric pain right now?
- 11:42Well, most research is in cancer pain. We lack a lot of information on prevalence
- 11:47and epidemiology data for pain in children.
- 11:49We have significantly limited research in neonates. We have limited use of pain guidelines.
- 11:54For many years, there were literally no pain guidelines for the general pediatric
- 11:59population. There may be some specific ones for certain conditions,
- 12:02as I mentioned, cancer or sickle cell.
- 12:06There have been some newer guidelines published by the AEP in the past two to
- 12:10three years, which are helpful.
- 12:12And then effective pain on quality of life is poorly characterized.
- 12:16So, you know, due to all the developmental reasons, which make it difficult
- 12:19to assess pain in children, it can also be difficult to understand how it impacts them.
- 12:25So now we're trying to move on to, so we've talked about pain.
- 12:29We don't know a lot about pain, but we are confronted with pain in our patients frequently.
- 12:33So how do we assess pain in children? So again, we have to use developmentally
- 12:40appropriate pain scales.
- 12:41I'm going to present three or four types of pain scales that can be used.
- 12:46If you look in the literature, there's bunches of different kinds.
- 12:50Some are other iterations of the ones that I'm going to be talking about,
- 12:56but these are sort of the gold standard ones that have been used and have the
- 13:00most information sort of evaluating them and validating them in our patients. So.
- 13:07In younger children, we use the FLAC pain scale, which I'll show you an example of that in a minute.
- 13:13For patients who are pre-verbal, so kids under three years of age,
- 13:16and then for older nonverbal patients, we certainly have a growing population of patients who,
- 13:23for various developmental reasons, are not able to communicate verbally with
- 13:28us even on into young adulthood.
- 13:31And then patients who are developmentally unable to use what's called the FACI
- 13:34scale, which, again, I'll also show you that. You can use the FACES pain scale
- 13:38for patients three years and older.
- 13:40And typically, the severe pain is defined as 8 to 10 on a 0 to 10 FACES scale.
- 13:48And then it's defined as greater than 5 on the FAC scale.
- 13:52So for children less than three, this is the FLAC scale.
- 13:56So the FLAC is an acronym for Face, Legs, Activity, Cry, Consolability.
- 14:01And so there are definitions for what is happening on those five criteria for a young child.
- 14:10And so you get points based on which of these things are happening.
- 14:16So for scores of zero, which would be no pain, you know, they don't have any
- 14:21particular facial expression. They're relaxed.
- 14:23They're lying quietly. They're not crying. They're content.
- 14:26That makes sense. And then as you move up the scale, they identify physical
- 14:32evidence that the child may be in distress or in pain with a grimacing,
- 14:37clenched jaw, you know, rigid legs,
- 14:41crying, difficult to console and comfort.
- 14:43And so this is the traditional scale we use for nonverbal patients.
- 14:48So you can apply this also to older patients who are not able to communicate.
- 14:54And then for children ages three and older, you can use the facey scale.
- 15:00I have here represented the classic Wong-Baker facey scale.
- 15:03This has been in use for a very, very long time and was the traditional facey scale.
- 15:09There are lots of other iterations of this. There are some scales that have
- 15:13actual children's faces on them.
- 15:14Some of the newer scales, the zero is a neutral face as opposed to being a smiley face because,
- 15:22there's been some understanding that if you're in a hospital and somebody shows
- 15:26you this and you're a child, you may pick a two because you're not that happy to be in the hospital.
- 15:31And so there are some specifics that have changed what these faces look like over time.
- 15:39Now, some of the caveats is that, you know, young children may not be able to
- 15:44distinguish between physical or emotional discomfort.
- 15:47And so again, sometimes they may pick slightly higher numbers Also,
- 15:52there's some developmental things where children do naturally pick higher numbers.
- 15:55You know, do you want one cookie or four cookies?
- 15:58Those type of things. So when you use this pain scale, you do have to very carefully, you know,
- 16:04kind of give them some anchoring for it that, you know, this 10 Hertz worse
- 16:09is not because my brother took my cookie because I could look like that and
- 16:13cry and be sad if I lost something important to me.
- 16:17That's more of an emotional discomfort as opposed to, you know,
- 16:20I fell off my bike or fell down the stairs.
- 16:23That type of thing should be used when having children use the FACES scale, at least initially.
- 16:30As they get older and they understand a little bit more about what these numbers
- 16:33are supposed to represent or these FACES are supposed to represent,
- 16:35they may not need as much guidance as initially.
- 16:39Then frequently in an older patient and in adults, we'll use a verbal analog
- 16:45scale. We may not have those faces with us for the patients to look at.
- 16:49And so we'll ask them out loud, you know, on zero to 10, you know, where is your pain?
- 16:56And, you know, we tend to just give patients that as opposed to,
- 17:02you know, providing them with some anchoring statements.
- 17:05So it is important to say, you know, zero, I'm comfortable.
- 17:09I'm, you know, no pain at all. I'm lying. Some people say I'm laying in a fluffy
- 17:12bed versus 10. 10, you can pick any number of different things.
- 17:16I had one attending once who was like, 10, you jumped into a pool without water.
- 17:20So like trying to give them some dramatic, like this is supposed to be dramatic
- 17:23pain, very severe pain that would limit what you could normally do.
- 17:28And again, as I mentioned, young children may develop me to pick higher numbers
- 17:31if they don't understand the anchors that you're using.
- 17:34And then I'm going to talk a little bit about functional pain scales.
- 17:38I really like functional pain scales, especially in our patients who have chronic pain.
- 17:43There's a general movement that for chronic pain patients,
- 17:46the traditional facies and verbal pain scales of zero to 10 really are not helpful
- 17:54because these patients live with pain on a daily basis and it may go up and down,
- 18:00but it never goes to zero for sure.
- 18:02And so that's why we sometimes get patients to start telling you their pain
- 18:05is a 15 and a 20 on a zero to 10 scale, because that scale no longer serves
- 18:10as a good tool to help understand how their pain is affecting their life for
- 18:15our chronic pain patients.
- 18:16And so more of the research in chronic pain, again, this is mostly in adults,
- 18:21so I think we could use it in our adolescent AYA patients, are in functional pain scales.
- 18:26And so this looks at more and has the patient think about more of what can I
- 18:32do, what can I not do? What is my pain limiting me from doing?
- 18:36What can I normally do that isn't able to accomplish because of my pain?
- 18:41And so it shifts it from pain assessment toward patient function and impairment.
- 18:47Unfortunately, again, these functional pain skills are not yet validated in
- 18:50children, but I find them to be more helpful in our patients with chronic pain syndromes.
- 18:56So, you know, what are some of our barriers? What are reasons why children who
- 19:00are in pain may not get the treatment that they need?
- 19:03Well, I mean, some of it's us, the physicians, nurses, pharmacists,
- 19:08you know, we now are fearful.
- 19:11We have a lack of experience and discomfort with these meds.
- 19:14You know, when I started training, the fifth vital sign of pain had become,
- 19:20you know, the thing that was checked off every, you know, every so many hours.
- 19:25And there was a lot of advertising and promotion that we need to ask patients about pain.
- 19:31We need to address their pain. We need to respond to within 30 minutes.
- 19:34We were using a lot more pain medications during that time period.
- 19:39But now in light of the opioid epidemic, which I will address later in the presentation,
- 19:46you know, we use it less frequently and there's a lot of fear related to it.
- 19:50We have more fear of opioid-induced complications because we don't have as much
- 19:55experience with the medications than fear of consequences of treating pain.
- 19:59Again, the consequences of treating pain, we don't have a lot of data on because
- 20:03that's like quality of life and impact in adulthood about not having pain treated as a child.
- 20:08Those are things that are more difficult to quantify, and it's easy to quantify
- 20:12number of times a patient had respiratory depression.
- 20:15And so that's one of the reasons why it can be difficult for us to feel comfortable
- 20:20giving these pain medications.
- 20:22The family of the patient can be a barrier. The caregiver can have a fear that
- 20:27even one dose of these pain medicines could result in an addiction.
- 20:31And there's a huge social meaning in our country right now related to opioids
- 20:37and narcotics and legal pain medicines and illegal substances. And.
- 20:45Weight in some families when we talk about using these medications.
- 20:50And then patients, barriers, verbal communication and language.
- 20:53If they can't tell you they're hurting, if they can't communicate with you about
- 20:57how the medicines make you feel, it can be a real difficulty to determine if
- 21:00the doses and medication you're using are effective or if you need to use another one.
- 21:05So again, I just want to highlight the effects of uncontrolled pain.
- 21:09So when a patient is in pain and they're not appropriately treated,
- 21:13they do not receive doses of medicine that will cause some decrease in their pain or some relief.
- 21:20We know that we can't erase all pain, but if there's not some lifting of the
- 21:26intensity of the pain and patients become agitated, they become depressed,
- 21:30there's anxiety, they have loss of appetite and sleep disturbance,
- 21:34decreased quality of life, interruption of family life.
- 21:37They can develop what's called a pseudo addiction.
- 21:40And so this is where they're in so much pain and they're so desperate for relief
- 21:45that they may start having behaviors that you would typically see or you would
- 21:49typically associate with an individual who had an opioid addiction where they're going,
- 21:57I mean, they're in so much pain and no one's treating them.
- 21:59So they just keep going to different places and asking until they hopefully
- 22:02find someone who may be compassionate enough to actually give them medication
- 22:07to provide some relief because they're having so much suffering.
- 22:10And so they can develop behaviors that look like addiction, but it's not because
- 22:14they're truly opioid addicted. It's because they have pain that is not being addressed.
- 22:18And then the other effects of not treating pain is that we put patients at risk
- 22:23of developing opioid misuse, which again, I will discuss in some subsequent slides.
- 22:29Okay, so what are our pharmacologic strategies of pain management?
- 22:33These are usually the things we think of first when we want to treat patients with pain.
- 22:38We immediately, we're doctors, we prescribe medication. So if somebody has a
- 22:41problem, I'm going to give them medication for it.
- 22:43So that's usually our first action that we do in patients who have pain.
- 22:47And so there's the Who Pain Ladder, which has been around for a long time,
- 22:52that discusses like for mild pain, you can use non-opioids, so NSAIDs, acetaminophen.
- 23:00And then as the pain goes up, you should consider adding like weak opioids and
- 23:05then strong opioids as your pain gets higher and to continue using some of those
- 23:11non-opioid medications. So what about using the pain ladder in children?
- 23:16Usually the recommendation for children is to do more of a two-step strategy
- 23:22instead of the three-step strategy.
- 23:24For mild pain, use things like ibuprofen, endoproxen, acetaminophen.
- 23:30And you're going to skip the middle step of using some of the weak opioids because
- 23:35the benefits of using a stronger opioid outweigh the benefits of the intermediate
- 23:39opioids in the pediatric population.
- 23:41So I know for many years people felt comfortable prescribing codeine,
- 23:45but 33% of patients do not metabolize codeine to an active analgesic,
- 23:50so you're functionally giving them nothing.
- 23:51And then there's a certain percentage, probably about 28%, who will under-metabolize
- 23:58the active analgesic, and so they're at risk of excessive sedation.
- 24:02And so codeine is not recommended for use, and so that leaves us with maybe
- 24:08some of the more classic opioids, so moderate to severe pain,
- 24:12to treat with hydrocodone initially, and then consider morphine,
- 24:17and then the other agents, depending upon the type and severity of pain for the patient.
- 24:22So, you know, medical management of severe pain, you know, this is...
- 24:28It's specific to, you know, think about.
- 24:32So one of the things you have to think about when you're addressing a patient
- 24:35with pain is, you know, what is the mechanism of their pain and what is the
- 24:39natural history of this patient's pain?
- 24:40You know, I stub my toe, it's going to feel bad for a day and then feel better the next day.
- 24:45You know, there are other things I can potentially do to treat it.
- 24:47But let's say I have a patient with a large abdominal tumor.
- 24:50That's not going to go away quickly. They're going to have pain for quite a while.
- 24:54And so I need to address their pain and I need to address it in a way that doesn't
- 25:00cause them to have these huge shifts and swings of I'm in a lot of pain and then I'm not in pain.
- 25:04So, you know, as needed or PRN medications are not appropriate for severe pain.
- 25:09You don't want patients to have these swings of pain scores of 10 and then better
- 25:14because I got a pain medicine and then not get anything for a while until I go back up to a 10.
- 25:19The untreated pain leads to anxiety and even more severe pain experiences in this situation.
- 25:24So, you know, scheduling an analgesic in patients with these type of severe
- 25:29pain that is not going to get better rapidly.
- 25:31And then having some additional medications for increased or breakthrough pain.
- 25:35I mean, you do have to, you have to adapt it to the individual child,
- 25:38you know, you know, dosing relief versus adverse effects.
- 25:41So if the dose is too high and they're too sleepy, then back off on it.
- 25:44If the dose is not enough, then go up on it.
- 25:47These medications are completely titratable. You just have to be willing to try a lower dose.
- 25:52If that's not enough, then go up a little bit and keep adjusting it based on
- 25:56the patient's response.
- 25:58So when we are looking at patients with severe pain, morphine is still recommended
- 26:03as the initial opioid, though I've had several anesthesiologists tell me it's
- 26:06kind of a crappy opioid, but it's the one that we've had the most experience
- 26:09with, and so it's still the one that we use.
- 26:11There's really not a lot of evidence to recommend using, like going straight
- 26:16to hydromorphone or one of those other medicines if you have a patient in severe
- 26:20pain, morphine is still the gold standard.
- 26:22They can be given oral, IV, sub-Q, rectal, transdermal, intranasal.
- 26:27So there's lots of ways in which you can administer these pain medications to patients.
- 26:32And in general, in most of the pain literature, there is no longer a reason
- 26:37to administer intramuscular opioid injections, especially in children.
- 26:41Again, we've already talked about how needles and injections are a source of
- 26:45pain and distress in patients.
- 26:47And so if you're in pain and then you're going to have to have an injection
- 26:51that is also anxiety and stress inducing, it's going to raise your experience
- 26:57of the pain you're having right now.
- 26:58And so the pain literature recommends strongly against giving intramuscular pain med injections.
- 27:05And then you're gradually going to increase the dose until it's effective.
- 27:09You want to limit the pain between the doses.
- 27:12So you don't, again, you don't want to have these wide swings of being at a zero and being at a 10.
- 27:17If you find that the medication you're using isn't working and you're having
- 27:22lots of adverse effects, then that would be a reason to switch to another pain medicine.
- 27:26So if you're on a dose of morphine and the patient has horrible itching and
- 27:31nausea and they just feel terrible on it and they're still in pain,
- 27:35then that would be a reason to consider switching to hydromorphone.
- 27:38Okay, so breakthrough pain. So this happens in patients who are taking scheduled
- 27:43pain medicines that their pain will start to increase.
- 27:46Sometimes that could be, you know, the end of the dose or the pharmacology of
- 27:51these pain medications that we are using. Some medications, you know, last a long time.
- 27:56Some last a short period of time. So, you know, if you dose morphine every six
- 28:00hours, it's definitely out of your system.
- 28:03If you dose IV morphine, you know, it's usually two to four hours of IV morphine
- 28:10and then it's mostly out of your system.
- 28:11So, you know, if a patient is having pain because you're not giving them their
- 28:16IV morphine stuff every six to eight hours, well, that's because you don't have
- 28:19a dose interval control.
- 28:21Or is it associated with movement or procedure pain? So they only have pain
- 28:24whenever they get out of bed.
- 28:25Well, then maybe you need to think about having an additional dose of medicines
- 28:29available to them to take either before or after they get out of bed.
- 28:33Or maybe it's with physical therapy. So they need to have a dose right after
- 28:36they do their physical therapy because their pain goes up.
- 28:38But you don't need to change their scheduled dose of medicine.
- 28:42It's just for when they have increased pain.
- 28:46So typically, there's not, again, we lack data. So there's not like data that
- 28:51says there's a specific way in which you treat breakthrough pain.
- 28:55We usually use either IV or immediate release morphine and you give the rescue
- 29:02dose is about 5 to 10% of the total morphine equivalent the patient has during the day.
- 29:07You can also consider using patient-controlled analgesia, which is the morphine
- 29:12or other pain medication in the pump with the button where the patient can then
- 29:18control when they get a dose.
- 29:19If they're getting ready to have physical therapy, they can take a dose of their
- 29:22pain medicine before they do that as a tool that gives the patient more control.
- 29:27So the therapeutic window, so again, this is why we want to have scheduled pain medicines.
- 29:33So if we are giving a patient a dose at a regular interval, then we keep the
- 29:38dose of drug in this therapeutic window.
- 29:40And if our interval is too close together or our dose is too high,
- 29:44then we can end up in this toxic area and have side effects.
- 29:47And we know we need to drop either the interval of the dose.
- 29:49However, if we're not giving the dose frequently enough or we're not giving
- 29:53a good enough dose, then we are in the ineffective period, so the patient is
- 29:57not having any pain relief.
- 29:58So we really want to try to get our dosing so the patient is living in this
- 30:03sort of therapeutic window.
- 30:05Okay, so we've talked about a little bit about the philosophy of prescribing
- 30:10opioids in patients who have pain.
- 30:12Then we can talk about some of the adverse effects. So these are the things
- 30:15that we're afraid of. These are the things that patients are afraid of.
- 30:17So sedation, you know, Excessive sedation can be present without respiratory
- 30:22depression. That's a separate process.
- 30:24And then there's also the risk of respiratory depression with excessively high doses.
- 30:30Now, the respiratory depression is most common in patients who are opioid naive,
- 30:33patients who've had previous opioids or are especially on oral opioids at home.
- 30:39The risk of respiratory depression with IV doses is significantly lower.
- 30:42They can have sedation, but they don't have the same risk of respiratory depression.
- 30:47Itching. Itching is a huge side effect. constipation, nausea,
- 30:51vomiting, urinary retention, and some patients will experience headaches with their opioids.
- 30:56So I highlighted the fact that in 2024, or I mentioned that the AAP has put
- 31:02out some pain guidelines.
- 31:04And so this is from, this was just recently published.
- 31:08They made some assessments. Again, it's just like all other guidelines.
- 31:13It goes through how they decided what the data was, you know,
- 31:17what are strong, you can see they have strong recommendations versus recommendations.
- 31:21But the couple of things, the
- 31:23references is on the slide. So you can certainly access this on your own.
- 31:27But a couple of things that I was going to highlight is that it's listed in
- 31:31several places that there is a strong recommendation to not prescribe codeine
- 31:36or tramadol in our patients anymore, either post-surgical,
- 31:43when we're treating acute pain in patients who have obesity,
- 31:46obstructive sleep apnea.
- 31:47There's literally multiple things that say don't use codeine and tramadol,
- 31:51don't use codeine and tramadol.
- 31:52So if we get anything out of the presentation, hopefully we will stop prescribing
- 31:56codeine and tramadol in our pediatric patients.
- 31:59There are maybe a handful of AYA patients that I treat specifically with sickle
- 32:05cell in a very specific, you know,
- 32:08sort of shared decision-making process with them and having tried other pain
- 32:13medicines where they may occasionally use some tramadol.
- 32:16But again, that's a very different situation than, you know,
- 32:20post-tonsillectomy, you know, general pain, those type of things.
- 32:25So I'm going to hit a little bit on the medications. I don't want to spend too
- 32:28much time on this because you guys can access this through any number of different formularies.
- 32:33You can talk to your pharmacist, but just to kind of highlight,
- 32:37you know, what are our non-opioid analgesics?
- 32:40So, you know, our oral ones, our ibuprofen, naproxen sodium,
- 32:46actually, you know, I forgot to add on here, Celecoxib or Celebrex is actually FDA approved for.
- 32:53When it goes down to H2, but there is an FDA approval for naproxen and for celecoxib,
- 32:59primarily related to our arthropathy and arthritis patients.
- 33:05Naproxen does have a liquid formulation, but celecoxib doesn't.
- 33:09Aspirin, we don't traditionally use as a analgesic in children.
- 33:13It's more often we may see using it in our patients who have inflammatory diseases,
- 33:18Kawasaki's, you know, maybe as antiplatelet agent and stroke patients and thing.
- 33:23And then acetaminophen, you know, we have a lot of patients who use that.
- 33:27We have to be careful though, because there's lots of combination drugs with acetaminophen in it.
- 33:31And I know we have to really caution families to not mix too many different
- 33:35medications to avoid acetaminophen toxicity.
- 33:39And then we do have IV Toradol or Torilac, which is a nice medication to use
- 33:45in our hospitalized patients.
- 33:47There is an oral form, but it's a tablet and I tend to not like to use it and
- 33:52save it for our hospitalized patient.
- 33:54But 30 milligrams of Cotorlac is supposed to be comparable to six milligrams of morphine.
- 33:59So it can be a profound analgesic in patients if there's not a contraindication.
- 34:04So you're not supposed to use it in patients who have renal herpetic dysfunction,
- 34:08anybody who has ulcers or patients who are on anticoagulants or have coagulopathies,
- 34:14patients at risk of bleeding.
- 34:15So there are some patients where it's not safe to use, But in patients,
- 34:18it may be a good choice to try ahead of an opioid in a hospitalized patient
- 34:23who's experiencing some pain
- 34:25if they don't want to have the sedation and itching related to the opioid.
- 34:30Then we have our opioid analgesics. So this list hasn't changed a whole lot.
- 34:35We don't have like a bunch of new ones out there for us to use.
- 34:38It's kind of the same suspects all the time. So we've already mentioned about
- 34:41morphine and hydromorphone and fentanyl. So these are the ones that we most
- 34:46commonly will think about using, you know, fentanyl.
- 34:49We don't use too often as an analgesic.
- 34:51We may use it in like the emergency room because there is an intranasal component.
- 34:56And so they are looking at using it for more rapid pain relief,
- 35:00at least acutely when a patient shows up in severe pain in the ER.
- 35:03Typically in inpatient settings, we may be using the IV forms of morphine or hydromorphone.
- 35:09Methadone is actually available IV or PO, though we traditionally use it orally.
- 35:13It's a synthetic opioid, and it does have activity against both nociceptive
- 35:18and neuropathic pain, so it can be very helpful in our chronic pain patients.
- 35:23Demerol, I do include it on here because it still shows up at some points in
- 35:27time. A lot of the dentists still like to use IM Demerol, so they're not paying
- 35:33attention to the current guidelines for office sedation and things like that.
- 35:37But in general, Demerol has been removed from all children's hospitals' formularies
- 35:41because there's an increased risk of seizures, especially in patients with renal disorders.
- 35:47And there can be abnormal metabolism, especially patients with liver issues,
- 35:52patients who have seizure disorders who get Demerol, it lowers their seizure
- 35:55threshold. So in general, it's not used as an analgesic.
- 35:59We will use it occasionally to treat patients who have chills or shakes,
- 36:07like I can remember using it in patients who are getting amphotericin and things
- 36:11like that to help treat those symptoms.
- 36:14And then we have some of our more common oral oxycodone with and without acetaminophen
- 36:18and hydrocodone, which unfortunately is only combined with acetaminophen.
- 36:23So most patients, and this also can be related to some of the insurance regulations,
- 36:27start with hydrocodone.
- 36:28And then if they fail that, maybe they can use oxycodone. The benefit between
- 36:33the two is oxycodone does have faster onset.
- 36:35It kicks in in about 10 minutes.
- 36:38Hydrocodone takes about 30 minutes. So that's the main benefit,
- 36:41I think, of the oxycodone is that it has quicker onset of action.
- 36:45And then I mentioned I put codeine
- 36:47here, but I'm reminding you it's not recommended for use in children.
- 36:51Okay, and so then just I mentioned methadone. So there are some newer pain medicines
- 36:55that are floating around out there.
- 36:57If you're in the hospital setting, you may have some patients who are starting
- 37:01to get low-dose ketamine, or there's a protocol in the ICU for certain patient
- 37:05populations, and then we have one for our sickle cell patients.
- 37:09And then again, methadone has an unpredictable half-life, but we do use it often
- 37:14in our chronic pain patients, and palliative will often use it in some of our oncology patients.
- 37:21So there's also non-classical pain medications. So these are things we don't
- 37:26always think about as helping us treat pain, but they definitely do.
- 37:29So we have for neuropathic pain, we have amitriptyline, gabapentin, pregabalin.
- 37:34Again, this is one of those things not approved in children,
- 37:36but we do sometimes use it in our older patients. So this may be good for things
- 37:41like phantom limb pain, which I mentioned the classic example of neuropathic pain.
- 37:45And then because pain is a total person, total body experience,
- 37:50there's such a large emotional component to it as well.
- 37:53Many SSRIs can be helpful in managing patients with severe pain syndromes.
- 37:59So the fluoxetine, citalopran, and duloxetine are the three that are recommended
- 38:04to use as an adjuvant for medical therapy in our patients with pain syndromes.
- 38:11Okay, so I wanted to move on from pain syndromes to, or off of pharmacologic
- 38:18syndromes to, what can we do?
- 38:21These, we always think of this stuff second, and probably we should start thinking
- 38:25of some of this stuff first or at the same time that we're thinking of the medications.
- 38:29So many pain, especially our patients with chronic pain syndrome,
- 38:33they really benefit from these other therapies.
- 38:37So you need a multimodal approach. So physical and cognitive therapy using heat,
- 38:44the TENS, the transcutaneous nerve stimulation.
- 38:48Maybe they need a wheelchair so that they don't have to walk so far,
- 38:52which provokes their pain.
- 38:53Things like distraction, mindfulness, breathing,
- 38:57integrative medicine, vitamins, breathing, yoga, acupuncture,
- 39:02acupressure, massage, all of our therapies, physical and occupational therapy,
- 39:07music and art therapy, child life, counseling and support groups.
- 39:10There are so many different things that can be incorporated into treating pain
- 39:15besides just using a medication.
- 39:18These interventions are beneficial. We know that things like cognitive behavioral
- 39:23therapy and biofeedback and relaxation and hypnosis.
- 39:28Some studies have found that they reduce pain intensity for children when these
- 39:32are employed, when people have chronic headaches and the benefits are sustainable.
- 39:36They've been shown to improve pain and disability also for non-headache pain.
- 39:41So it's been shown in patients with sickle cell disease, fibromyalgia,
- 39:45recurrent abdominal pain, that these strategies can help reduce pain and improve
- 39:51chance of return to normal activities.
- 39:54This table you guys can refer to in the presentation.
- 39:58This is an example of some development appropriate non-pharmologic pain strategies.
- 40:02If you spend any time with our child life staff, you will notice how they use
- 40:08many of these things when they're trying to help patients cope with behavior
- 40:12or with interventions or procedures or things that are distressing and painful.
- 40:17And so, you know, some involve touch and sensory, so music, massage,
- 40:22some involve activities, believe it or not, blowing bubbles,
- 40:25you know, all of those type of things.
- 40:27And then imagery can be very helpful to help patients think about something
- 40:31else besides what's happening to them.
- 40:34All right. So now I'm going to touch base for a few minutes on some pain management
- 40:38and special populations.
- 40:40So for procedural pain, so examples, venipunctures, immunizations,
- 40:44medication injections, there is a tool.
- 40:46And again, you may have noticed the nursing staff and child life have these buzzy tools.
- 40:52So what are they? They are vibration. You can also get these little cold wing
- 40:56packs attached to them, but it's not necessary.
- 40:58And so the cold and vibration distracts all the nerves around where the injection's being given.
- 41:05And so you don't feel the injection anymore.
- 41:07Studies have found it reduces pain up to 88% and it reduces needle fear.
- 41:11I can tell you we have kids who specifically ask for this when they come into
- 41:15clinic now, which is very nice because they're less fearful of injections and
- 41:20less fearful of venipuctures.
- 41:22Cold spray can also help. And then we have the topical M-LUN LMAX,
- 41:26which can be used at sites where procedures may happen, such as menopunctures
- 41:30or bone marrows, those type of things, which can be important.
- 41:35Perioperative pain. So, you know, it's good to be aggressive initially because
- 41:42pain is historically undertreated in pain.
- 41:44But fortunately for us, you know, most surgical pain gets better in a few days.
- 41:49So it doesn't have to, we're not looking at long-term pain meds.
- 41:52You can use, again, the lidocrine, Imla cream before the surgical procedure
- 41:58for IV starts to help relieve pain and related to that going into the procedure.
- 42:02And then for postoperative pain, you know, a PCA is safe to use in children
- 42:06over six years of age, and that may be a useful way to allow patients to have
- 42:11control and take medicines when they're hurting the most.
- 42:14And I'm going to hit a little bit on sickle cell patients. So for our sickle
- 42:18cell patients, you know, they have acute and chronic pain, and we try to have
- 42:22them have what's called a home pain action plan.
- 42:25These are used across the country, and it basically has them escalate their
- 42:28pain. It's the WHO pain ladder, but it's written like an asthma action plan.
- 42:32For mild pain, they start ibuprofen, then they may start their,
- 42:36depending upon how severe their pain is, they may start additional pain medicines,
- 42:40and then it gives them instructions on what to do when their pain is really bad.
- 42:44And so when a sickle cell patient presents to the ER, the recommendation is
- 42:48that they are triaged to level 2 and that they should receive pain meds within 60 minutes of arrival.
- 42:53The main issue is that we need to regard the patient or the caregiver as the expert on this disease.
- 42:58And if they are in pain, we need to address their pain. We can assess them with a pain scale.
- 43:04There are no laboratory or vital signs that will prove or disprove the present of their pain.
- 43:10Hydration may be important, but boluses don't change the pain.
- 43:14And what's more important than giving them fluids is getting them analgesia, which can be titrated.
- 43:20If they've been using their home pain action plan, IV opioids are appropriate.
- 43:24There's no reason to give them orals when they've already been taking orals at home.
- 43:27But if they are occasionally a young kid who comes in for his first pain crisis
- 43:32and he hasn't had any oral opioids, you could certainly try an oral dose and
- 43:35see if that's sufficient.
- 43:37Other supportive care while they're starting with these pain crises,
- 43:41such as heat and massage, those type of things can be helpful.
- 43:45And there is a recommendation for patients 12 and older to have individual ED
- 43:48pain plans to help the ER manage these patients as they get more complex, as they get older.
- 43:54In patient care, we do think most patients who need two to three doses of IV
- 44:00opioids need to be admitted.
- 44:02And then we continue to schedule IV pain meds while they're admitted.
- 44:07Again, we have individualized pain plans for the patients who are 12 and older.
- 44:11We always have to remember to include the supportive care because we've already
- 44:14talked about all the side effects of opioids.
- 44:16So they get constipated, so they need a bowel regimen. There's lots of itching.
- 44:19So we have use of Narcan drips and other medicines to try to alleviate these side effects.
- 44:27Frequently, there's not another option to treat the severe pain they're in,
- 44:30and they do have to tolerate a certain amount of side effects,
- 44:33unfortunately, with opioids.
- 44:36One of the things that is often highlighted with our sickle cell patients is
- 44:40that they are sort of the example used for their presence of implicit bias in pain management.
- 44:47I posted up here this, are they going to believe me?
- 44:50This is a common theme in discussions and support groups for patients with sickle
- 44:56cell disease that they feel like they're going to the hospital,
- 45:00they're not going to be believed. The data actually supports that.
- 45:05Providers tend to overestimate risk of addiction for patients with sickle cell,
- 45:09and then patients consistently report that they're misbelieved,
- 45:14mistreated, and dismissed within the healthcare system.
- 45:16There was a study that looked at sickle cell pain and femur fractures,
- 45:19and the sickle cell patients waited 25% longer than the general patient sample,
- 45:24and they waited 50% longer than patients who had femur fractures to get pain medications.
- 45:29So there's clearly work that we need to do to treat these patients fairly and,
- 45:36again, to believe them when they come in and tell us that they are in pain.
- 45:42So chronic pain, this is a issue that I kind of talked about a little bit earlier.
- 45:50It really needs multimodal interventions in order for us to address it.
- 45:54Lots of gaps in things that we don't know.
- 45:57Cancer pain, again, this needs to be individualized for the patient.
- 46:01We often involve palliative care for our patients who have severe progressive
- 46:05or relapsed or terminal disease.
- 46:07We want to try to maximize their time at home, and so we use oral medications if we can.
- 46:16And then depending upon the patient's other symptoms, we may need to use other
- 46:21types of administration with IV.
- 46:24Okay, so I'm going to talk a little bit about opioid crisis.
- 46:27Pain contracts, a prescription monitoring for the end of our presentation.
- 46:32So, you know, the opioid crisis has been in the news for more than 10 years now.
- 46:38This has been a definite impact on children.
- 46:41There's a risk of poisoning and overdose for them within their homes.
- 46:46Opioid misuse in pregnancy, we could have a whole separate lecture on neonatal
- 46:49abstinence syndrome that our NICU was having to deal with.
- 46:53It has affected parenting and attachment, maternal deprivation,
- 46:57and there may be extended separation from parents.
- 47:00So when the adults in their lives have opioid addiction, it directly affects
- 47:04our patients that we're taking care of.
- 47:07But what does this mean when we're treating children with pain?
- 47:11Despite the opioid crisis, we should not be ignoring their pain,
- 47:15you know, but we should also think about using other tools that I talked about,
- 47:21non-pharmacologic methods, in addition to pain medicines.
- 47:25You know, We do need to be thoughtful about how many medications we prescribe
- 47:29in terms of number of pills and how often we are giving refills.
- 47:34We need to provide good education to the older patients and their parents.
- 47:39And it's really important to use the fewest number of analgesics to control
- 47:42pain so patients shouldn't be sent home on six different types of pain medicine.
- 47:47That increases their risk of misuse.
- 47:50In 2016, the CDC presented some guidelines for prescribing chronic opioids.
- 47:55This was aimed at primary care physicians and for adults. There were no recommendations
- 48:01in these guidelines for children and adolescents because they felt there was
- 48:05no data or evidence that they could comment on.
- 48:08So these guidelines are for adults.
- 48:11And what was the effect of this? Well, unfortunately for our sickle cell patients,
- 48:15because they were not included specifically as being separate,
- 48:19they included cancer as a different group that didn't apply to these guidelines.
- 48:22Our sickle cell patients, unfortunately, were swept up in the group,
- 48:27and we found there were a couple groups that found that we had increased hospitalizations
- 48:31and patients were receiving fewer pain medicines, which led to their increased
- 48:35hospitalizations as a result of these guidelines in 2016.
- 48:40So then in 2022, the CDC also said, oops, we made a mistake.
- 48:45And they updated the guidelines and said, by the way, these guidelines don't
- 48:49apply to sickle cell disease or cancer or patients receiving palliative or end-of-life care.
- 48:55So that's still been, it's still taking time for that to trickle down that those
- 49:01patients are excluded from some of those opioid prescribing recommendations.
- 49:05So what is opioid use disorder? This is when a patient uses an opioid without
- 49:13a prescription or differently than the prescription is written for.
- 49:16Our adolescents are at risk for OUD.
- 49:19It's reported that 1 in 315 youth experience opioid use disorder the following
- 49:26year that they receive an opioid prescription. And where are they getting these opioids from?
- 49:31About 39% from relatives, 26% from doctors, 12% are being bought.
- 49:37Risk factors. So there's a 1.2 to 2 times risk with ADHD and trauma.
- 49:43Patients, similar risk for chronic pain. Age and mood disorder has a 3 to 7 times risk.
- 49:50And if you have a patient who has previously been diagnosed with a substance
- 49:53use disorder, there's a 20 time risk. So these patients are especially vulnerable
- 49:57when you're deciding to give them an opioid prescription.
- 50:00The good news is that there's a declining overall prevalence of opioid use disorder.
- 50:06In 2015, before those 2016 guidelines came out, they reported about 12.5 million.
- 50:14This is people 12 and older, so lots of adults are included in this.
- 50:17And most recently in 2019, it had fell to 9.7 million. So they do believe those
- 50:232016 guidelines are helping with the adults who were developing opioid use disorder.
- 50:31It's estimated that about 3.6% of adolescents will misuse their prescription
- 50:35opioids and post-dental visits.
- 50:38So dental visits are the leading source of opioids for adolescents.
- 50:41So it's when our patients go get their wisdom teeth removed,
- 50:44major dental procedures that they get given an opioid, and that's often the
- 50:48first place that they're exposed.
- 50:50So what can the pediatrician do? You can provide adolescents and caregivers
- 50:54with, you know, tailored information about the risk of developing addiction.
- 50:58If you're going to prescribe pain medication, start with low doses and increase slowly.
- 51:03Counsel patients and caregivers about safe storage and proper disposal of opioids.
- 51:08You know, advise them about, you know, dental procedures and what type of pain
- 51:12medicine you want from that, since that seems to be a key area where our teenagers
- 51:16are exposed to the opioids.
- 51:18So pain contracts, these are recommended for patients over the age of 18.
- 51:23But I do use them in some of my chronic pain patients, especially in preparation
- 51:27for transition to adult.
- 51:30It typically includes opioid safety practices, so there may be a good reason
- 51:34to use it any number of different patients.
- 51:36You're not going to share your prescription. You're only going to take it as prescribed.
- 51:39You're not going to ask for prescriptions from other providers.
- 51:41You're going to use the same pharmacy, and you need to have clinic visits every
- 51:45three months for regular prescriptions.
- 51:48And then the last thing I was going to mention was this prescription monitoring database.
- 51:52Any of us who have a DEA number and have ability to prescribe controlled substances
- 51:58can look up any individual patient.
- 52:01And there is a requirement if you prescribe controlled substances to check this
- 52:05database in order to see if your patient's getting medicine from other places
- 52:11or when their last prescription was filled.
- 52:13And it can be useful for our patients who have chronic pain syndromes.
- 52:18Again, it's supposed to remind you to limit the number of days of medication
- 52:23for acute pain patients.
- 52:25Again, not counting chronic pain, cancer, hospice, palliative care,
- 52:29and sickle cell patients.
- 52:32In the EPIC system, if you prescribe an opioid, this window will pop up.
- 52:37Depending upon the age of patient, there may be some other things that pop up, but it's very easy.
- 52:41You just click on the review PDMP, and then it will open up the patients.
- 52:47This is a little example of what it looks like for a particular patient.
- 52:51It'll talk about their overdose score. It'll talk about how much medicines,
- 52:56when they've been getting medicines.
- 52:56It'll show you the pharmacies where they've been getting their medication.
- 53:00And then you can just click that you've reviewed it and you've met any requirements
- 53:04for checking the prescription database monitoring program.
- 53:08But again, it's easy to do through Epic.
- 53:11All right. So in conclusion, the person experiencing the pain is the expert about their pain.
- 53:18Pain in children is often undertreated, which can lead to increased anxiety.
- 53:22Opioids are important tools in treating pain in children and can be safely prescribed.
- 53:27Prescription opioid misuse is declining, but our adolescents are at at-risk populations.
- 53:32And safe opioid prescribing practices in adults include prescription database
- 53:36review and opioid contracts.
- 53:38These tools, although not required, are useful in treating adolescents.
- 53:41With chronic pain. So I realize this was a whirlwind of information.
- 53:46There are lectures, the AAP has information on any of these specific topics
- 53:51as full separate lectures.
- 53:53If anyone wants to explore more about integrative medicine or non-pharmacologic
- 54:00pain management strategies, then I have some references.
- 54:05Thank you, Dr. Fajan, for educating us on management of pain in children.
- 54:10There are quite a few questions in the chat box. I'll read the first one.
- 54:14Can you comment on IV acetaminophen in pediatrics?
- 54:20Yes. So acetaminophen is an analgesic that is available as an oral rectal IV.
- 54:29It seems to be a very potent analgesic. Most of the data on IV Tylenol is in a surgical setting.
- 54:36So there's some data about giving IV acetaminophen before a surgical procedure
- 54:41decreases the amount of opioids needed after the surgical procedure.
- 54:45And so I think it is a useful analgesic to use in, again, operative settings,
- 54:51hospitalized settings, obviously not something you have access to in the outpatient world.
- 54:55I know we have run into some issues with some shortages of it in the hospital.
- 55:00So there have been some limitations on how much we can dose it or how frequently we can dose it.
- 55:05Typically, we've had some instances we can give a few doses,
- 55:08but we can't keep giving it for multiple days.
- 55:11Okay, the second question, for our patients with more chronic pain syndrome,
- 55:15the normal pain scales are sometimes counterproductive, hard to use,
- 55:20distraction when they are constantly being asked to assess their pain.
- 55:23I know we have discussed functional pain scale.
- 55:25I have found it difficult for our nursing staff to get on board with this because
- 55:30they are required to document number of pains in EPIC.
- 55:32Any thoughts about this process and how we can work with our other staff to
- 55:37move forward more helpful assessment tools for certain patients?
- 55:42Yeah, I think that's a great question.
- 55:45I know it's been a couple of years ago that the UHS updated some of their like
- 55:50opioid and pain medicine prescribing for the adults because I was on that committee
- 55:55and I know they added functional pain scales for the adults and they're supposed
- 56:01to be, I don't know if the adult side is doing both,
- 56:04but we kind of run into this, you know,
- 56:07it's competing demands because we're.
- 56:12Like we just had our JCO visit and they checked the nurses to see if they were
- 56:16documenting pain scores, if they were responding to pain scores.
- 56:19And so there's these administrative people who are going to come and check to
- 56:23make sure that they were still documenting the numbers. And we can't get away
- 56:26from that because that's not in our control.
- 56:28But I wonder if we can engage to try to decide if we can update some of the
- 56:34pediatric nursing policy to have both documented in certain patients.
- 56:38That might be something we can talk to the nursing leadership about.
- 56:42I can, I don't remember who led the adult policy, but the updated adult policy
- 56:48has functional pain scales in it as preferred.
- 56:51Next question is, can you talk about non-opioid options for gastrointestinal pain?
- 56:56Oh goodness. So I am probably not going to be able to speak very much on that.
- 57:01That might be more for our GI doctors who treat our irritable bowel syndrome.
- 57:05I mean, I know that there are newer medications.
- 57:10One of them, Bental, there's a couple that I've seen.
- 57:13It's not something that I have as much experience with, but maybe one of our
- 57:17GI colleagues could provide some insight on that.
- 57:21Next question, should we pre-medicate with acetaminophen for routine vaccines?
- 57:28And secondly, what is your thoughts on using both alternating acetaminophen
- 57:33and ibuprofen for febrile illnesses?
- 57:35Oh, those are great questions. So, you know,
- 57:38I think there's been some data out there questioning pre-vaccine analgesia and
- 57:47response to vaccines and altered immune response to vaccines.
- 57:51And I mean, I think...
- 57:54I think probably you could use other tools for your vaccine,
- 57:59like get a buzzy, you know, use some things.
- 58:02Because the reason you're giving the Tylenol beforehand is because you have
- 58:05a fear of the needle pain, the injection pain, the infusion pain.
- 58:09That's what you're using the acetaminophen for frequently is the pain associated with the vaccines.
- 58:14So maybe you could explore non-pharmacologic ways to treat or address injection pain at the time,
- 58:20and then only add acetaminophen or ibuprofen after the vaccine's given if the
- 58:25patient develops a symptom like a fever or, you know, increased pain and swelling.
- 58:30Because I find that it's typically parents are using it because they're more
- 58:33worried about the pain the child is going to experience from the injection itself.
- 58:37So maybe you could use a non-pharmacologic.
- 58:39And then, you know, scheduling acetaminophen and ibuprofen for fever.
- 58:44I mean, I think we tell patients to do that.
- 58:47My husband's an ID doctor. So he's like, fever's good.
- 58:51Fever's your immune system, fighting your infection. Why are we so afraid of fever?
- 58:54So, you know, there's that, there's that, there's that, that disconnect because
- 58:58our parents are very fearful of fever and they're afraid whether all of their
- 59:02fever was 102, you know, versus 99.
- 59:04And just, you know, they can, there's a lot of emotion and fever for our parents
- 59:08sometimes. And so, I mean, I don't think there's been no data suggests that that's harmful.
- 59:13You know, we also have the parents who say Tylenol never works,
- 59:16ibuprofen is anything that lowers our fever.
- 59:18Certainly if you have a very anxious and distressed patient,
- 59:22that may be very appropriate to give them something to do so they feel like
- 59:25they're doing something to help their child feel better and to lower their fever
- 59:29curve potentially so that they feel less distressed and caring for the child.
- 59:34Thank you so much for listening to that fascinating talk. Don't forget to click
- 59:39on the link in this podcast for free credit.
- 59:42Our website is pediatricsnowpodcast.com. My email address is on there.
- 59:49Please email me with questions or episode ideas.
- 59:53Music.
- 59:53Coming up next week, depression.
- 1:00:10We get some answers from a pediatric psychiatrist. That's coming up next week.
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- 1:00:43Thank you so much for listening.
- 1:00:45I'm Holly Wehment, and I'll see you soon.